Does it not bother you

[The Barbarian]

That there is no escaping life on this planet except when you gone.. It's a real shame no one can report back from the after life..

[synsei]

That there is no escaping life on this planet except when you gone.. It's a real shame no one can report back from the after life..

Indeed... God bless you mum and happy easter :(

[The Barbarian]

What bearing does Easter have on this subject?

[synsei]

I'm surprised you felt the need to ask that but hey ho. For what it's worth easter meant a lot to my mum and your post struck a chord with me which is what elicited my response, isn't that what forums are all about?

[Gordon Steadman]

That there is no escaping life on this planet except when you gone.. It's a real shame no one can report back from the after life..

As the inevitable gets nearer and nearer, it certainly crosses my mind from time to time. As someone who is convinced that we are just another animal and this is all there is, my mind struggles to accept the reality of not being here - in spite of the obvious fact that I wasn't here for a few million years before I was born.

Considering the number of people who have 'gorn before' its a bit surprising no-one has reported back - isn't it?:eyebrows:

[The Barbarian]

Well this thread aint about You Dave nor is it about Easter..

[anthonyTD]

Consciousness is a strange thing, how many here can remember the very first instant they became conscious of being alive ?
A...

[synsei]

Whatever André... :rolleyes:

[The Barbarian]

Um ok :rolleyes:

I'd like to know what's on the other side of things before taking the plunge..

The downside is a possible hellish world, where as this world ive seen much beauty under the influence but not in people.But you cannot be under the influence all your life to escape the ugly-ness of the people in this world..

[Markiii]

no

[Haselsh1]

From personal experience of near death I am a very firm believer that there is nothing else when all of this comes to an end. Anything else is fanciful, religious rubbish with no grounding whatsoever. The Bible proves absolutely nothing as it is merely a rather poor work of fiction and there is very little evidence for anything other worldly.

[Gordon Steadman]

Apart from the distinct unlikelihood of there being anything else to escape to (or to which to escape for the grammar fascisti amongst you), why would you want to?

There is so much to enjoy here, music books, food, wine...even some of the people. I have said before that wanting or expecting something else is likely to reduce the effort you put into this life.

I am well aware that there are those who disagree with me but then, as I was reminded when dissing the cable brigade, they are quite free to be wrong:eyebrows:

[Haselsh1]

Without people in this world, who would there be to appreciate it...? Animals are not self aware so cannot and do not notice things around them; they merely respond to external stimuli so, once again, without people in the world, nothing would get noticed.

[MartinT]

Since there is no afterlife 'escape' doesn't mean anything to me. When I'm dead I will be gone and that's it. Since my brush with the big 'C' I have held a new maxim, and that is to enjoy and get something good from every day. It has helped me a great deal and I don't use expressions such as 'getting through each day' any more. I am very happy in my personal life and I get a lot from my working life. I intend that to continue until I can't any more.

[anthonyTD]

Good attitude!
Since there is no afterlife 'escape' doesn't mean anything to me. When I'm dead I will be gone and that's it. Since my brush with the big 'C' I have held a new maxim, and that is to enjoy and get something good from every day. It has helped me a great deal and I don't use expressions such as 'getting through each day' any more. I am very happy in my personal life and I get a lot from my working life. I intend that to continue until I can't any more.

[Macca]

I had conversation with my father after he had died. I asked him how he was and he replied 'They're keeping me busy.' make of that what you will...

[The Barbarian]

From personal experience of near death I am a very firm believer that there is nothing else when all of this comes to an end. Anything else is fanciful, religious rubbish with no grounding whatsoever. The Bible proves absolutely nothing as it is merely a rather poor work of fiction and there is very little evidence for anything other worldly.

Apart from personally having great difficulty getting through life fro day to day & my serious dislike for other people. I have been looking for a view of maybe someone who has say passed away for a short period on an operating table or what ever! what did they experience in that short time away?

[Gordon Steadman]

Apart from personally having great difficulty getting through life fro day to day & my serious dislike for other people. I have been looking for a view of maybe someone who has say passed away for a short period on an operating table or what ever! what did they experience in that short time away?

I'm not sure their experience would be relevant Andre. Even when fully conscious (a rare estate perhaps) each of us seems to have a slightly different experience. My belief is that any effect is just the brain trying to cope. It will be interesting to see if there is anyone here who can add anything.

[The Barbarian]

I not sure if it's the brain trying to cope as the heart stops beating. I mean it's not like a coma where most everything shuts down saving on every possible resourse to allow the body to try cope with the serious trauma it's incured.

[Gordon Steadman]

I mean it's not like a coma where most everything shuts down saving on every possible resourse to allow the body to try cope with the serious trauma it's incured.

Why not? It seems to me that death is probably quite a serious form of trauma!

[The Barbarian]

But you are still alive under Coma conditions, where as a state of temporary death you are dead simple as that until ofc you are brought back around.It's this state of death im interested in hearing what people have experienced in that short period of time.

[anthonyTD]

Experiences i have read about, one in particular was a guy in hospital, and he had died for a short time, he was conscious of watching the doctors working on him, and also, and most importantly, he could describe items on the top of fixtures that he couldn't possibly have seen from his bed, Again,make of that what you will.

[Gordon Steadman]

But you are still alive under Coma conditions, where as a state of temporary death you are dead simple as that until ofc you are brought back around.It's this state of death im interested in hearing what people have experienced in that short period of time.

I think you would get more info just by Googling 'near death experience'.

I remain of the opinion that there is no real experience at all. You are either alive or you are dead. If you can be resuscitated before there is irreversable brain damage then you can regain consciousness (whatever that is) and continue to live - for a while.

Sadly, this is one of those things that appears impossible to prove so we are back to 'faith' instead of science. I'll stick to science thanks.

[Macca]

Science is not really an appropriate tool to explore such things. You wouldn't call in car mechanic if your horse got sick..

[walpurgis]

I wasn't here for a few million years before I was born.

Bit longer than that Gordon. Eternity stretches backwards as well as forwards (and no doubt in other directions) from our point in the perception of existence.

[walpurgis]

Consciousness is a strange thing, how many here can remember the very first instant they became conscious of being alive ?
A...

All through my childhood I had an apparent memory of an indefinable traumatic event and I always wondered if it was my sensation of being born. Although at birth one would obviously not be able to frame the experience in thought or any terms really, but I'd think some of us may have an impression, maybe even subconsciously of our births in the depths of our life experiences.

[Gordon Steadman]

Science is not really an appropriate tool to explore such things. You wouldn't call in car mechanic if your horse got sick..

No but thats just a different version of science. You believe there is something else obviously - I don't.

Science has given us all the things we treat as essential these days, I'll stick with it. But then I don't regard escapism as essential.

I had a feeling this might drift into no go areas. I think it best not to continue this sort of discussion and stick to something we can all disagree properly about - like hifi.

[Gordon Steadman]

Bit longer than that Gordon. Eternity stretches backwards as well as forwards (and no doubt in other directions) from our point in the perception of existence.

I'm not sure that is true. In theory, we know roughly when this universe started but not when it might end. Still, I guess billions of years is eternity enough for us, certainly it is for me.:)

[walpurgis]

Even when fully conscious (a rare estate perhaps) each of us seems to have a slightly different experience.

How can you tell?

[anthonyTD]

That's an interesting one Geoff,
My first recollection was when i was around 1 years old, watching the old TV my mum and dad had in the static caravan we lived in for a short time,University challenge was on! I described the layout of where my cot was, in respect to the TV to my mum and dad recently, and its seems i was correct.
However, the strange thing is,and whether its my memory playing tricks on me,[quite possibly] but i seem to recall watching myself from the back, as i was watching the TV...it was as if i hadn't become me yet at that point.:scratch:

All through my childhood I had an apparent memory of an indefinable traumatic event and I always wondered if it was my sensation of being born. Although at birth one would obviously not be able to frame the experience in thought or any terms really, but I'd think some of us may have an impression, maybe even subconsciously of our births in the depths of our life experiences.

[Gordon Steadman]

How can you tell?

Pass. However, its is clear that how we describe it is different as consciousness appears to encompass all the senses even though we can maintain it even if we lose a few.

As my experience of the effect of wires in a system seems different from many (even when listening to the same system at the same time) I assume that is a different experience. We judge each experience against those in the past too and may well have different expectations. Clearly we are the result of all those experiences as well as a lump of flesh.

[walpurgis]

Animals are not self aware so cannot and do not notice things around them;

Not sure I agree with that. My dog is very self aware and crafty too. He'd bite your arse if he heard what you'd said. :)

He recognises words very well by the way. If I say treat/biscuits/garden/out/walk/rats/game, etc., he makes an appropriate and separate response.

[Macca]

No but thats just a different version of science. You believe there is something else obviously - I don't.

Science has given us all the things we treat as essential these days, I'll stick with it. But then I don't regard escapism as essential.

I had a feeling this might drift into no go areas. I think it best not to continue this sort of discussion and stick to something we can all disagree properly about - like hifi.
Yeah its real deep shit I know. But consider this: science observes, it deduces and it explains but it is an intellectual process so it cannot lead tunderstandig. Understanding can only come from the emotional. Which is why clinical depression is so much more commonplace. In the.westernised world. People seek to understand through the intellect which is impossible and so they become frustrated and unhappy.

[anthonyTD]

I used to have a Collie cross years ago, he was super intelligent,he would bring his dish for me to put his food in, but would also put it up on the work top for me when i wasnt very well, he would also bring my slippers up stairs to me when i was in the bath, one at a time! I loved the old fella so much, and i know he loved me.
Not sure I agree with that. My dog is very self aware and crafty too. He'd bite your arse if he heard what you'd said. :)

He recognises words very well by the way. If I say treat/biscuits/garden/out/walk/rats/game, etc., he makes an appropriate and separate response.

[Gordon Steadman]

Not sure I agree with that. My dog is very self aware and crafty too. He'd bite your arse if he heard what you'd said. :)

He recognises words very well by the way. If I say treat/biscuits/garden/out/walk/rats/game, etc., he makes an appropriate and separate response.

Pavlov's dog was a good band. My Italian girlfriend introduced me to them. I seemed to lose interest when we split though.

[Gordon Steadman]

Yeah its real deep shit I know. But consider this: science observes, it deduces and it explains but it is an intellectual process so it cannot lead tunderstandig. Understanding can only come from the emotional. Which is why clinical depression is so much more commonplace. In the.westernised world. People seek to understand through the intellect which is impossible and so they become frustrated and unhappy.

There we go, we disagree about this too:lol:. Understanding IS an intellectual process for me. Emotions are just part of it. Part of our training to cope with the world around us if you like.

I am neither depressed nor unhappy - quite the reverse. Maybe I just don't understand:eyebrows:

[walpurgis]

But you are still alive under Coma conditions, where as a state of temporary death you are dead simple as that until ofc you are brought back around.It's this state of death im interested in hearing what people have experienced in that short period of time.

I was in a coma for about a day when a surgical procedure went rather wrong. Turned out I one of the one in half a million people who can't tolerate 'suxamethonium' muscle relaxant (synthetic curare I believe). It put me straight into anaphylactic shock, dilating my blood vessels and inducing my heart rate to runaway until it stopped. During this whole event I experienced absolutely nothing whatsover.

Mind you, coming to many hours later was a different story. It was an appalling experience. I cannot describe how horrendously ill I was for the first day or so after and I still had dizzy spells for months afterwards.

[Gordon Steadman]

I was in a coma for about a day when a surgical procedure went rather wrong. Turned out I one of the one in half a million people who can't tolerate 'suxamethonium' muscle relaxant (synthetic curare I believe). It put me straight into anaphylactic shock, dilating my blood vessels and inducing my heart rate to runaway until it stopped. During this whole event I experienced absolutely nothing whatsover.

Mind you, coming to many hours later was a different story. It was an appalling experience. I cannot describe how horrendously ill I was for the first day or so after and I still had dizzy spells for months afterwards.

Yuck - sounds horrendous. I always feel bad enough just coming round in the 'normal' way from anaesthetic.

[sparrow]

Not much to add but I've lost two very close freinds how took their own lives. Still to this day would like to think they've gone somewhere better than what shite this world threw at them...I am a non parctising catholic and I've told my good lady the next time I go into a chapel will be in a box. Religion is a comfort to a lot of people. And that is all it is appart for causing war and attrocities in the name of god.

[Joe]

I had conversation with my father after he had died. I asked him how he was and he replied 'They're keeping me busy.' make of that what you will...

Bugger! I was hoping for a good long rest after I popped my socks.

[walpurgis]

Despite a few 'near death' experiences (if that's what they were) and other rather odd and surreal experiences in my formative years which I won't elaborate on. I don't believe in anything mystical, otherwordly or supernatural, etc., etc.

We've been through this before, but I believe what you see and experience in front of you is all there is. I see 'religion' as just collective superstition and am unapologetic about that. Before you were born you felt nothing and when you're gone you'll feel nothing and it doesn't matter. Be glad of being given life and make the most of it I say, as it's the only real 'miracle' you'll ever find.

[nat8808]

That there is no escaping life on this planet except when you gone.. It's a real shame no one can report back from the after life..

Do you mean that it's a shame we can't go off and explore the rest of the universe? Or do you mean that "hell is other people" etc and there's no escaping the general confines of the smaller worlds we live in?

It does bother me the first part - I'd love to shoot out into space and see otherworldly things and it's frustrating that it's impossible.

The second one, it's easy to escape but it just takes a re-frame, to use NLP or self-help babble (or indeed physics if you're talking different frames of reference, Lorentz transformations - and that re-frame on physical laws led to relativity etc). You can do anything, as they say - problem is, our self-images, our beliefs in who we are, what clothes are "US" or own preconcieved ideas of how we think and behave, keep us locked down in to the status quo. That's all very good if the game is animalistic survival and we're doing ok at keeping alive - but not so good in our rather abstract, human psycho human culture world we live in.

If you can't flip your mind to thinking in another way just like that, err without the help of drugs, then doing something physically different can be the kick start. Sometimes needs a little practice in doing something completely different to realise that you CAN do that and live a life that's completely different..

Oddly I can see this to be true and see examples around me and not so much around me, but still easy just to cling to old habbits! Need some really strong motivation sometimes - often sadly that can come a little too late, bad health or something.

[nat8808]

We've been through this before, but I believe what you see and experience in front of you is all there is. I see 'religion' as just collective superstition and am unapologetic about that. Before you were born you felt nothing and when you're gone you'll feel nothing and it doesn't matter. Be glad of being given life and make the most of it I say, as it's the only real 'miracle' you'll ever find.

I see it as collective comfort too - and am unapologetic about that too, just I might keep it to myself in some real-life company so as not to cause a stir or cause ill feeling.. which is kind of surreally daft when you think about it, that someone not being religious can sometimes cause anquish.

[Macca]

It is difficult for us to seperate religion from spirituality (for want of a better word) inthe Wrst since our religions were loong ago co-opted as a mechanism for power and control. We tend to boil everything down to 'I believe' or 'I don't belleve'. Again this is simply a result of attempting to intellectualise things. The true meaning of our religions has long since been lost. For example how many Catholics are aware that the Holy Sacrament is a residue of an ancient Egyptian magical crremony? Very few, including the Preists. It matters not thar we agree or disagree, simply to discuss these things is an end in itself.

[Haselsh1]

All through my childhood I had an apparent memory of an indefinable traumatic event and I always wondered if it was my sensation of being born. Although at birth one would obviously not be able to frame the experience in thought or any terms really, but I'd think some of us may have an impression, maybe even subconsciously of our births in the depths of our life experiences.

Psychologically, it is well known that some people never recover from the trauma of being born. It would be quite understandable if you were one of these folk.

[Gordon Steadman]

It is difficult for us to seperate religion from spirituality (for want of a better word) inthe Wrst since our religions were loong ago co-opted as a mechanism for power and control. We tend to boil everything down to 'I believe' or 'I don't belleve'. Again this is simply a result of attempting to intellectualise things. The true meaning of our religions has long since been lost. For example how many Catholics are aware that the Holy Sacrament is a residue of an ancient Egyptian magical crremony? Very few, including the Preists. It matters not thar we agree or disagree, simply to discuss these things is an end in itself.

Yikes I must be boring. I don't believe in 'spirituality' either. I think I need a drink of some red stuff and listen to some Paganini (baroque type) to see if I can get a bit separated from this physical reality (the one that I inhabit of course:))

[Haselsh1]

At the age of eighteen I suffered a major motorcycle accident and during the actual events of that pleasant Saturday afternoon, I stopped breathing for a short while and had to be resuscitated by a nurse who was at the scene. Nothing happened, no light, no tunnel and certainly no gorgeous music to see me off. I'm still here even though that happened in 1977 but OK, I suffer the scars and mental trauma of such an event, however, as a result of that event I am now very firmly, a non believer.

[Haselsh1]

I guess, to clarify and get to the original point, I agree with Andre to a certain degree. It is a shame that there is no way 'out' unless you actually die but I have my own form of escape which satisfies me every weekend that the sun is shining. Here in Lincolnshire we are blessed with miles and miles of remote, very lonely beaches where one can simply sit on the edge of the dunes with an MP3 or so and waste hours and hours of contemplation. This is my spiritual universe where I can leave everything behind bar the odd dog walker or three. I do not need work or hi-fi or anyone else in my life for a Saturday and Sunday afternoon. All I need is the utter loneliness of just being there.

[Joe]

My own 'escape' is, and always has been, reading. I can instantly transport myself to a different time and place, and once I'm absorbed in a book, the everyday nonsense that we all have to deal with goes away for a couple of hours.

I would also recommend travelling. It's something I've only really got into in the past couple of years, but a change of scene genuinely does seem to help.

[Gordon Steadman]

My own 'escape' is, and always has been, reading. I can instantly transport myself to a different time and place, and once I'm absorbed in a book, the everyday nonsense that we all have to deal with goes away for a couple of hours.

I would also recommend travelling. It's something I've only really got into in the past couple of years, but a change of scene genuinely does seem to help.

I'm rereading Lord of the Rings. Instant transport to another world.

My version is the India paper one so reading it is a delicate art, sort of hightens the experience somehow.

[walpurgis]

Psychologically, it is well known that some people never recover from the trauma of being born. It would be quite understandable if you were one of these folk.

Thanks Shaun. That's very reassuring! :)

[Macca]

Drawing pleasure from music is in itself attaing an emotional understanding of sorts. No coincidence that music and sound are inherent parts of all religous and magical ceremonies. You don't enjoy music with the intellect. Likewise you do not appreciate nature with the intellect. You don't feel love and affection for your wife or husband because you have reasoned it out in the same way as you might solve a crossword puzzle.

[Gordon Steadman]

Drawing pleasure from music is in itself attaing an emotional understanding of sorts. No coincidence that music and sound are inherent parts of all religous and magical ceremonies. You don't enjoy music with the intellect. Likewise you do not appreciate nature with the intellect. You don't feel love and affection for your wife or husband because you have reasoned it out in the same way as you might solve a crossword puzzle.
But its all still a function of the brain - firing of neurons or whatever. I don't see how the two things can be separated.

[anthonyTD]

If you believe that we are an energy, and you also believe that energy has an infinite life span, therefore, you cannot destroy an energy, you can only turn it into something else, then, you could say that we all live on.:)

[Gordon Steadman]

If you believe that we are an energy, and you also believe that energy has an infinite life span, therefore, you cannot destroy an energy, you can only turn it into something else, then, you could say that we all live on.:)

Yup, I could be part of a leaf after my constituents parts are recycled. Not sure how much of my consciousness will still be around though. maybe just a small part of Gaia's thought processes? (must re-read the Foundation series!!)

[MartinT]

You have already been part of a star. Keep going...

[Gordon Steadman]

You have already been part of a star. Keep going...

Wadya mean PART of a star?:lol:

[goraman]

Actually Easter is the perfect response to your question,unless you where just making a statement and didn't expect any reply.
The reason Easter is perfectly appropriate is because the only being to have escaped death by self resurrection (with over 500 witnesses seeing him after he had risen) and causing the instant conversion of thousands of Jews to Christianity as a result returned on Easter changing the world forever.
The same Jews who them selves yelled Free Barabis, Crucify Jesus! Changed there faith 3 days later!
No other "profit" has done that.
There was also a book written after his death and resurrection explaining a lot about the after life,you may have herd of it. The Bible.
Had Jesus not returned from the dead, no one would know of him today. He would have just been forgotten as so meany that claimed to be a profit before him.
No one else has fulfilled over 300 prophecy's in one life time , including crucifixion a punishment that did not even exist when the prophecy was written,and the return to life in 3 days.
So yes, unless there has been some one else who has done the same Easter is an acceptable response to your question.
And in my mind the only appropriate response,because it's the documented case we have to go with.
And at some point he will return again,and when he dose, I hope you will be in his good grace Andre.

[Gordon Steadman]

Actually Easter is the perfect response to your question,unless you where just making a statement and didn't expect any reply.
The reason Easter is perfectly appropriate is because the only being to have escaped death by self resurrection (with over 500 witnesses seeing him after he had risen) and causing the instant conversion of thousands of Jews to Christianity as a result returned on Easter changing the world forever.
The same Jews who them selves yelled Free Barabis, Crucify Jesus! Changed there faith 3 days later!
No other "profit" has done that.
There was also a book written after his death and resurrection explaining a lot about the after life,you may have herd of it. The Bible.
Had Jesus not returned from the dead, no one would know of him today. He would have just been forgotten as so meany that claimed to be a profit before him.
No one else has fulfilled over 300 prophecy's in one life time , including crucifixion a punishment that did not even exist when the prophecy was written,and the return to life in 3 days.
So yes, unless there has been some one else who has done the same Easter is an acceptable response to your question.
And in my mind the only appropriate response,because it's the documented case we have to go with.
And at some point he will return again,and when he dose, I hope you will be in his good grace Andre.

Give me strength.

I thought we were supposed to avoid posts that centred too much on religious views.

[Firebottle]

:) Anyone can have a view, a faith, a belief, just so long as I'm not forced to follow it.

Could equally apply to another thread that's going on :sofa:

[The Grand Wazoo]

Good to see you back here Jeff - how are you? l expect that Connor is looking forward to his treats tomorrow.


Gordon, it's not a rule. Just good advice.

[Gordon Steadman]

:) Anyone can have a view, a faith, a belief, just so long as I'm not forced to follow it.

Could equally apply to another thread that's going on :sofa:

:)

[walpurgis]

Give me strength.

I thought we were supposed to avoid posts that centred too much on religious views.

God knows? :)

[jandl100]

Give me strength.



Well, goraman does say that he's "Mad as a Box of Frogs" :lol:

Sorry. :whistle:

[The Grand Wazoo]

Changed there faith 3 days later!
No other "profit" has done that.

When that spelling for 'profit' is used, I'd beg to differ!
What I mean to say is that it's not uncommon for people to change their religion when they experience a significant rise in profit.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Anyway, perhaps we should respect our Christian fellows beliefs now and, especially so on this weekend, eh chaps?

[Spectral Morn]

It concerns me Andre that you have asked such a question or maybe I am reading too much into it but considering the lens through which you experience life asking about such things in the manner you have worries me.

Yes people are all flawed, none of us perfect and its very easy to get bogged down in being overly negative re this because just as much as there is great ugliness in the world caused by humans there is also great beauty to be found in creativity, music, art, writing, small and large acts of kindness, sometimes selfless sometime not and a myriad of other things but there are days when I put my head in my hands and feel great sadness at what I see people doing to each other but that is the nature of the beast that is humanity.

Do I believe in an afterlife ? Yes I do. Over the years I have seen, directly experienced many things which leads me to believe there is a spiritual realm and for the most part it fits into a Biblical world view. Why some see and experience things and others don't I can't say, even among many believers there are those who have never seen or experienced anything and yet they still believe.

I felt my Mum's spirit leave her when I sat with the family at her death bed, my eyes were closed - during her passing- but I could feel her presence in the room and then it was gone, when I opened my eyes and looked at her she had stopped breathing and was gone.

Anyway I hope your outlook improves Andre and you feel a bit less gloomy re life, because among the dross there are great wonders to see and experience and not all are on the large scale but often tiny simple things but one needs to pause and be still to see them.



Regards Neil

[Haselsh1]

Life is what you make it and personally I think people should put more in and expect less out. It is up to you as an individual, not up to everyone else.

[anthonyTD]

:)


Yes people are all flawed, none of us perfect and its very easy to get bogged down in being overly negative re this because just as much as there is great ugliness in the world caused by humans there is also great beauty to be found in creativity, music, art, writing, small and large acts of kindness, sometimes selfless sometime not and a myriad of other things but there are days when I put my head in my hands and feel great sadness at what I see people doing to each other but that is the nature of the beast that is humanity.






Regards Neil

[brian2957]

It concerns me Andre that you have asked such a question or maybe I am reading too much into it but considering the lens through which you experience life asking about such things in the manner you have worries me.

Yes people are all flawed, none of us perfect and its very easy to get bogged down in being overly negative re this because just as much as there is great ugliness in the world caused by humans there is also great beauty to be found in creativity, music, art, writing, small and large acts of kindness, sometimes selfless sometime not and a myriad of other things but there are days when I put my head in my hands and feel great sadness at what I see people doing to each other but that is the nature of the beast that is humanity.

Do I believe in an afterlife ? Yes I do. Over the years I have seen, directly experienced many things which leads me to believe there is a spiritual realm and for the most part it fits into a Biblical world view. Why some see and experience things and others don't I can't say, even among many believers there are those who have never seen or experienced anything and yet they still believe.

I felt my Mum's spirit leave her when I sat with the family at her death bed, my eyes were closed - during her passing- but I could feel her presence in the room and then it was gone, when I opened my eyes and looked at her she had stopped breathing and was gone.

Anyway I hope your outlook improves Andre and you feel a bit less gloomy re life, because among the dross there are great wonders to see and experience and not all are on the large scale but often tiny simple things but one needs to pause and be still to see them.



Regards Neil

Fantastic post Neil . I couldn't have put it better myself . Yes life can be hard at times but if you're waiting for an individual or a situation to change so your own life can improve you may wait for a very long time . These changes must be made from within . We all have an 'untapped inner strength '. The hard bit is finding it .
You can change your perception of the world , and the people , round about you . It's not easy but it can be done .

[The Barbarian]

One thing is for sure the old Barbarian knows how to pull the audience in with his Topics.. What on earth would AOS do with out yours truly eh?

:eyebrows:

[MartinT]

It would be our loss, Andr'e :)

[goraman]

There was really no other way I could answer Andre's question, A spiritual question gets a spiritual answer and being near Easter and wondering why no one has died and come back to tell us about it.
How would Easter not come up?
And why shouldn't it?
I agree we don't need a religious debate forum but the man asked. I answered.

[goraman]

Good to see you back here Jeff - how are you? l expect that Connor is looking forward to his treats tomorrow.


Gordon, it's not a rule. Just good advice.

I have been in reading from time to time.
My system is finished and audio has been on the back burner,Conner graduates now 2 years of pre school and starts Kindergarten next year.
My Mom now 84 has needed a lot of help, so I have not spent much time on the computer.
It is nice to see not much has changed here...
I'll post some pics of Conner on Easter tomorrow,thanks Chris.

[anthonyTD]

Good to see you back Jeff.:)
A...
I have been in reading from time to time.
My system is finished and audio has been on the back burner,Conner graduates now 2 years of pre school and starts Kindergarten next year.
My Mom now 84 has needed a lot of help, so I have not spent much time on the computer.
It is nice to see not much has changed here...
I'll post some pics of Conner on Easter tomorrow,thanks Chris.

[goraman]

Thank you, Anthony

[Marco]

Yeah, Jeff - nice to see you, dude! Hope life is treating you well. Don't be such a stranger in future :)

Marco.