Just my imagination ? A tale of 2 Pioneers

[MikeMusic]

I have a Pioneer PD-S703 from Nigel of this parish, added a Bushmaster and the lovely Ankaka battery.

So impressed was I with this that I got another PD-S703 on Ebay.

Just listened to both and I'm sure one of them sounds better than the other.
All identical kit apart from the CDP being used out to the DAC

Me going bonkers or a possible ?

[synsei]

It is likely that one of the machines has been modded Mike, worth checking inside I reckon... ;)

[Spectral Morn]

or internal components in one have aged poorly, or components were changed during the course of the models life, or one was repaired using poorer quality parts etc, etc, etc. It could be anything.


Regards Neil

[istari_knight]

or internal components in one have aged poorly, or components were changed during the course of the models life, or one was repaired using poorer quality parts etc, etc, etc. It could be anything.


Regards Neil

Exactly. Have a peek inside, if they look to have identical components with no obvious bodgery we can only assume either you are indeed bonkers or one has aged more gracefully than t'other.

[Firebottle]

I had a Philips CD610 many years ago, then some oik broke in and nicked it :mad:

Anyway I bought the same model to replace it and it was stunningly better, much more open.
Go figure............

:cool: Alan

[agk]

Could be a multititude of things including those mentioned and of course build quality consistency, one may have a dodgy joint somewhere or a different brand/spec of component.

[agk]

...and does one have a cleaner lens than the other?

[Macca]

I had a nagaoka mp30 new old stock. Sounded fantastic. Got a replacement stylus for it and that was so much better it was a joke. You can never tell with these things.

[twickers]

Buy another, see what that sounds like? :eyebrows::mental:

[walpurgis]

...and does one have a cleaner lens than the other?

Yes, good place to look first. Or just try a lens cleaning disc, they work if it's just a dust problem. Also, clean the RCA sockets!

[Macca]

How can the lense affect the sound. It will either read the disc or not.

[istari_knight]

How can the lense affect the sound. It will either read the disc or not.

Maybe one has a cataract :ner:

[walpurgis]

How can the lense affect the sound. It will either read the disc or not.

A dirty lens will affect the accuracy of the way the information is read. It's surprising what can affect digital signals. Cables make a big difference, even though you'd think this unlikely too.

[Macca]

Et
A dirty lens will affect the accuracy of the way the information is read. It's surprising what can affect digital signals. Cables make a big difference, even though you'd think this unlikely too.
That just isnt how it works. The laser reads a file on a disc no different than if it was a Word file being read off a cd rom and being displayed on a computer screen. It will either display the document perfectly or it will fail completely. It wont misspell the odd word or miss some letters out.

[walpurgis]

Et
That just isnt how it works. The laser reads a file on a disc no different than if it was a Word file being read off a cd rom and being displayed on a computer screen. It will either display the document perfectly or it will fail completely. It wont misspell the odd word or miss some letters out.

Yes I know that supposedly digital info is either correct or it won't work, but somehow various factors definitely seem to affect the eventual sound and a clean lens seems to work better than a dirty one.

[The Grand Wazoo]

So, what you are saying Martin, is that as far as sound output is concerned, there is no differing state between the two opposites of a pristine, clear lens and one with a piece of black tape stuck on it? One is 'on', the other is 'off' and there's no middle ground?
Sorry, I don't buy that.

[istari_knight]

I suppose the less work the error correction system is required to do the better.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Exactly.
It's not as though anyone really thinks an error correction system gets it right all the time (or even a lot of the time) is it? Or is it?

[istari_knight]

I have no understanding of how such things work... And if I don't understand it, I don't trust it neever ! http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c129/istari_knight9/icon_pitchfork_zps3125baec.gif

[MikeMusic]

It is likely that one of the machines has been modded Mike, worth checking inside I reckon... ;)

Don't think either were modded. They are now, with a femail IEC and Kimber powerkord
:)
Wanted to make sure I had the main use.one as the best sounding

[MikeMusic]

or internal components in one have aged poorly, or components were changed during the course of the models life, or one was repaired using poorer quality parts etc, etc, etc. It could be anything.


Regards Neil

Deming would have an answer, possibly one word
Variation
:)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming

[MikeMusic]

Exactly. Have a peek inside, if they look to have identical components with no obvious bodgery we can only assume either you are indeed bonkers or one has aged more gracefully than t'other.
Could well be. I heard stories of Dell PCs arriving on corporate sites looking very different inside - from some years ago

The use could also be an indicator
The better sounding one has a smarter and more sparkly Pioneer badge :)

[MikeMusic]

I had a Philips CD610 many years ago, then some oik broke in and nicked it :mad:

Anyway I bought the same model to replace it and it was stunningly better, much more open.
Go figure............

:cool: Alan

Same model but likely better components.
Do you know if it was newer or older ?

[MikeMusic]

Buy another, see what that sounds like? :eyebrows::mental:
Well funnily enough I probably will
Not completely mad. I have 2 CD players at home that are showing signs of failure, plus 2 others more or less dead

[MikeMusic]

Yes, good place to look first. Or just try a lens cleaning disc, they work if it's just a dust problem. Also, clean the RCA sockets!

It's actually the digital, but yes. I should do that on everything !

[Macca]

So, what you are saying Martin, is that as far as sound output is concerned, there is no differing state between the two opposites of a pristine, clear lens and one with a piece of black tape stuck on it? One is 'on', the other is 'off' and there's no middle ground?
Sorry, I don't buy that.

Yes that is what I am saying. And the no matter how much error correction has to be done it will not affect the sound. This is digital retrieval of data, not analogue. It either reads the file or it doesn't, in which case it won't play at all or you will get audible artifacts like skipping, moments of silence. ripping distortion and so on which I am sure we have all heard from time to time although that is due to damage to the disc, same as a corrupted data file on the hard drive of your PC.

Mike now says one player appears a bit shabby and the other is gleaming new so that is most likely the explanation - component degradation downstream of the file reading apparatus.

[MikeMusic]

Mike now says one player appears a bit shabby and the other is gleaming new so that is most likely the explanation - component degradation downstream of the file reading apparatus.

One looks what I'd call normal, the other looks very good - only on the badge areas.
At opposite sides of the room you would not spot the difference.
The are both great little boxes

[Firebottle]

Both CD610 were bought brand new, probably about 18 months apart.
My guess is the model was coming to the end of its shelf life, with possible component sourcing difficulties.

Probably Philips could only get the premium quality D to A, but it's only a theory.

:cool: Alan

[Clive197]

So, what you are saying Martin, is that as far as sound output is concerned, there is no differing state between the two opposites of a pristine, clear lens and one with a piece of black tape stuck on it? One is 'on', the other is 'off' and there's no middle ground?
Sorry, I don't buy that.

Your right not to buy that. The big difference is JITTER. Jitter causes distortion and that is something you can hear.

Clive

[Theadmans]

I run a Pioneer PD-S705 into my Bushmaster MKII (although my main source is a battery driven SBT).

I think the PD-S705 (which is closely related to your 703) is excellent as a transport - reads even my most scratched up of CDs and never misses a beat.

Wondered if you had seen this article on Lampization of the PD-S703 (it is interesting to read this Polish guys thoughts on the PD-S703) :-

http://lampizator.eu/lampizator/references/Pioneer_703/pioneer703.html

I will not be Lampizating my PD-S703 but do get excellent results running my Bushmaster into a Musical Fidelity X10D tube buffer with full Rock Grotto mods :-

http://rockgrotto.proboards.com/thread/1961/work-progress?page=15

[AlexM]

Martin,

Not quite so... CD has both CIRC error correction that can fully repair bit errors, and error concealment if CIRC cannot reconstruct the data using the redundant info. This is typically linear interpolation and sounds horrible. I'm not suggesting that that would account for any audible differences in this case, but a CD read isn't just perfect or skipping/obvious distortion.

Cheers,
A.