View Full Version : Recommend me some Mozart
I have a very large, Mozart-shaped hole in my music library. I have made a number of attempts over the years to assimilate Mozart, never with much success - for the most part, the things that I've listened to (mostly symphonies and chamber works), have left me cold. But - prompted by a chance (and pleasant) encounter with a Lucia Popp 'Mozart - Operatic Arias' LP - I thought it was time to give him another crack. Please recommend me some Mozart (specific recordings welcome) :)
I have a very large, Mozart-shaped hole in my music library. I have made a number of attempts over the years to assimilate Mozart, never with much success - for the most part, the things that I've listened to (mostly symphonies and chamber works), have left me cold. But - prompted by a chance (and pleasant) encounter with a Lucia Popp 'Mozart - Operatic Arias' LP - I thought it was time to give him another crack. Please recommend me some Mozart (specific recordings welcome) :)
I have a very large, Mozart-shaped hole in my music library. I have made a number of attempts over the years to assimilate Mozart, never with much success - for the most part, the things that I've listened to (mostly symphonies and chamber works), have left me cold. But - prompted by a chance (and pleasant) encounter with a Lucia Popp 'Mozart - Operatic Arias' LP - I thought it was time to give him another crack. Please recommend me some Mozart (specific recordings welcome) :)
You have made a very good point - to put it bluntly, I've got better things to do than sit at home and listen to Mozart.
In the classical era, in my book up to 1832, in my humble opinion where Mozart excelled over others was in his last 5 operas. That said, I hate recorded opera, nothing like the real thing.
If there is one set I could listen to regularly, and have in times past, it is the piano sonatas. Uchida first by a stretch then Perahia.
I might then turn to the Haydn quartets(Guarneri), but I'd probably turn to the old boy himself, who was only warming up in the quartet department by then and not long after that I'd be in to LvB op 59, written only 20 years later.
I would also recommend the Harnoncourt 2004 version of the Requiem. Small and intimate, very engaging. Apparently there is a SACD version, but my CD is fine.
jandl100
19-04-2014, 08:14
Mozart is one of the truly great Western classical composers.
imo ;)
When younger, I too had trouble seeing much worth listening to in his music, but as the years passed I realised the error of my ways.
Try some piano sonatas, all of this cycle by Jando is wonderful and easily better than any others I have heard (including Uchida and Perahia*!) -- http://www.amazon.co.uk/MOZART-JANDO-JENO-piano/dp/B0000270OL/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397894950&sr=1-5&keywords=mozart+jando+sonatas
And the Requiem, Bohm is best! -- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Requiem/dp/B000001G5A/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397894907&sr=1-1&keywords=mozart+requiem+bohm
And the Mass in c-minor -- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Mass-C-Minor-Mozart/dp/B0000040ZF/ref=sr_1_13?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397895000&sr=1-13&keywords=mozart+great+mass
And the string quintets (his best chamber music, imo, deeply profound and very beautiful) -- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Complete-String-Quintets-Arpad-G%C3%A9recz/dp/B000065TV7/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397895108&sr=1-2&keywords=mozart+string+quintets
And the clarinet quintet and concerto -- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Clarinet-Concerto-Quintet/dp/B000026168/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397895479&sr=1-1&keywords=mozart+clarinet+quintet
And some piano concertos -- well, why not this one? -- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Piano-Concertos-Nos-20/dp/B00000E32Y/ref=sr_1_111?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397895834&sr=1-111&keywords=mozart+piano+concertos
* I have to confess to finding the widely admired Uchida and Perahia exceedingly irritating as Mozart pianists! :)
The Requiem. It's a must have.
Gordon Steadman
19-04-2014, 19:55
Funny you should say that, I too have quite a large hole where Mozart may reside. I have some Karl Bohm symphonies that I never listen to. Unlike jandle, as I have got older I have actually grown less fond if thats possible and still find him a bit lightweight and rather boring. Definitely prefer Haydn.
Still, I might pull out the LPs and have a go, maybe the new Firebottle phono will pull something out that I've been missing until now.
julesd68
19-04-2014, 21:06
I didn't have any Mozart in my classical collection until today - picked up a lovely copy of the Requiem for £1.50 on my usual vinyl buying trip when visiting Manchester...
Most Mozart leaves me completely unmoved but do have a soft spot for the Clarinet Concerto.
jandl100
19-04-2014, 21:27
If you want my opinion on the symphonies (you do, don't you? :)) - then Bohm is boring. If only he had attacked them like he did his recordings of the Brahms symphonies, but no he just plods stodgily along. :zzz: :(
Go for Barenboim on EMI - if that doesn't convince you, nowt will.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-symphonies-40-Daniel-Barenboim/dp/B000027KCX/ref=sr_1_9?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397942802&sr=1-9&keywords=mozart+barenboim
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Symphonies-Nos-31-39/dp/B00000DOEV/ref=sr_1_27?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397943437&sr=1-27&keywords=mozart+barenboim
Gordon Steadman
20-04-2014, 08:01
Just found I have a few more than I remembered. I recorded a few bits for a friend and just copied them into iTunes and forgot about them. Might have a listen later.
jandl100
20-04-2014, 08:03
Oooo - I'd like to hear Argerich in the piano sonata!
I have her playing the piano concerto #20 - stunning! :drool:
dave2010
20-04-2014, 08:40
If you want my opinion on the symphonies (you do, don't you? :)) - then Bohm is boring. If only he had attacked them like he did his recordings of the Brahms symphonies, but no he just plods stodgily along. :zzz: :(
That's a pity - there was a Böhm set available cheaply recently, I did think of buying it + will now rethink, or try on Spotify first.
You may well be right about Barenboim - though I don't know all of his recordings. I heard him conduct some Mozart symphonies live many years ago, and I recall he was good. I always enjoyed Bruno Walter's recordings, which were on CBS - though they may not be so fashionable now.
What to listen to/out for?
Some of the wind serenades - particularly the K361 for 13 instruments.
Symphonies - 25, 29, and some of 20-41 - particularly 36,38,39,40,41. Charles Mackerras is, I believe very good in these.
Violin concertos.
The horn concertos - though perhaps one only is enough - they're all in E flat. Dennis Brain is the standard recommendation, though others - e.g Tuckwell, Civil are also good.
Piano concertos - 9 (Brendel), most of 17-27. If you can find Malcolm Bilson's set that's good. Stephen (Bishop) Kovacevich is excellent in most of the later ones, as is also Richard Goode. Ingrid Haebler is another possibility for some. There's a recording of no. 23 with Horowitz - brilliant. Brendel is good in no. 27. There are some total duds. I have a recording of Michelangeli which is awful - though I think with some conductors he was OK. There are a few really cheap downloads (if anyone can stand the compressed sound - I find it bearable) - I'll come back later with details.
Operas - these may not float everyone's boat, but they are worth getting to know, and possibly falling in love with. The plots can be hard to take - I find Cosi fan Tutte particularly problematic, but then that goes for most opera, and perhaps also most dramatic art.
The Drottninghom opera recordings of Cosi, Don and Marriage are very good, as is also the Magic Flute.
Solti's Magic Flute is good - also his Entfuhring aus dem Serail.
I find the Queen of the Night aria often painful to listen to - as so few singers are really able to do it - what the heck was Mozart thinking of?
I have, however, heard a couple of live performances where, to my amazement it was given a near perfect rendition. Of course there's always this one -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtf2Q4yyuJ0 [ENJOY!]
Try listening to a few versions on YouTube and maybe you'll see/hear what I mean. Diana Danau gets reasonably close - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuKxL4LOqc
Martino Tirimo is good in most of the piano sonatas. I have the versions by Uchida and Perahi, but I hardly ever listen to them.
Gordon Steadman
20-04-2014, 08:43
Oooo - I'd like to hear Argerich in the piano sonata!
I have her playing the piano concerto #20 - stunning! :drool:
I've been listening to the Argerich and whilst her playing is obviously brilliant, the music just doesn't do it for me. I think I have to face the fact that my tastes have polarised back to where they started out. Guitar music, baroque and jazz with smatterings of blues, rock and pop mixed in when the mood takes me.
I have a few classical composers in the collection but only dip in and out occasionally. Bach remains god!!
jandl100
20-04-2014, 08:49
I've been listening to the Argerich and whilst her playing is obviously brilliant, the music just doesn't do it for me. I think I have to face the fact that my tastes have polarised back to where they started out. Guitar music, baroque and jazz with smatterings of blues, rock and pop mixed in when the mood takes me.
I have a few classical composers in the collection but only dip in and out occasionally. Bach remains god!!
Fair enough, Gordon, kudos for giving it another try.
Classical is my main listening fare - 95%+, I guess. The only classical genre I can't get into at all is grand opera.
Played well, the Mozart piano sonatas are things of utter perfection for me.
Vive la difference! :cheers:
jandl100
20-04-2014, 08:52
Martino Tirimo is good in most of the piano sonatas. I have the versions by Uchida and Perahi, but I hardly ever listen to them.
Try Jando on Naxos, Dave - I hear very few recordings of anything that get close to perfection, but Jando does it for me in the Mozart piano sonatas. They are very difficult pieces indeed to pull off, despite their apparent and mis-leading simplicity, and I've never heard anyone do them as well as Jando.
jandl100
20-04-2014, 08:57
Piano concertos - 9 (Brendel), most of 17-27. If you can find Malcolm Bilson's set that's good. Stephen (Bishop) Kovacevich is excellent in most of the later ones, as is also Richard Goode. Ingrid Haebler is another possibility for some. There's a recording of no. 23 with Horowitz - brilliant. Brendel is good in no. 27. There are some total duds. I have a recording of Michelangeli which is awful - though I think with some conductors he was OK. There are a few really cheap downloads (if anyone can stand the compressed sound - I find it bearable) - I'll come back later with details.
Yes, spot on, Dave. Bishop Kovacevich is amazingly good. Desert Island Disc material for me. :thumbsup:
E.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Piano-Concertos-Nos-20/dp/B000027B6Q/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397984355&sr=1-5&keywords=mozart+kovacevich
Brendel is hit and miss for me, mostly miss.
I can't stand Richard Goode!
dave2010
20-04-2014, 09:16
Try Jando on Naxos, Dave - I hear very few recordings of anything that get close to perfection, but Jando does it for me in the Mozart piano sonatas. They are very difficult pieces indeed to pull off, despite their apparent and mis-leading simplicity, and I've never heard anyone do them as well as Jando.Thanks for the suggestion. Certainly good - though I have played (or at least tried to) some of the piano sonatas, and I actually feel that some, including the so-called "easy" one, can go quite a bit faster, and with very strong dynamics. Pianists like Uchida put me to sleep - IIRC. I have vague recollections of hearing one pianist's recordings which get closer to what I imagine they should sound like - and of course with much better technique than I can manage - perhaps it was Eschenbach.
Here is Jando in the F major sonata which I occasionally murder - he's on the right lines - http://open.spotify.com/track/0529b0EV7eZE1oVmLIIiK9
Also in the C major sonata he gets much closer to the "snaps" on the ornamented notes - these should be really quick to give a sharp effect.
I accept that these pieces can be played in different ways, and a "pretty" or "pure" way may sometimes work, but often I think it is just turgid. I notice the same in Haydn. One pianist recently made me sit up - Christian Zimmermann - he plays Haydn sonatas with absolutely stunning bravura - though unfortunately I don't think he's recorded (m)any. I managed to salvage some of his performances from a radio broadcast. If he's done Mozart too I'd expect the performances to be excellent. [I still can't find much Mozart by him, though.]
Schnabel is also worth hearing - though I can't remember whether he's really good in Mozart - but he certainly made me listen. http://open.spotify.com/track/0aputgRMKvoEaZuEcI1z1u
It's no good just listening to one pianist in piano sonatas (by almost any composer), there can be very significant differences between the effects they produce, and also the emotional effects on the listener. This may be different for different people, however.
dave2010
20-04-2014, 09:31
Yes, spot on, Dave. Bishop Kovacevich is amazingly good. Desert Island Disc material for me. :thumbsup:
E.g. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mozart-Piano-Concertos-Nos-20/dp/B000027B6Q/ref=sr_1_5?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1397984355&sr=1-5&keywords=mozart+kovacevich
Brendel is hit and miss for me, mostly miss.
I can't stand Richard Goode!Sorry you don't like Goode. You've hit the nail on the head with Brendel and Mozart. He has a few really good recorded performances and quite a number of merely OK ones. His recordings of early piano concertos - I think 9 and 12 - is really good, and I did enjoy an older recording (Vox) of 27. I also enjoyed his early recordings of Beethoven - such as the Waldstein sonata. Here is a more recent recording which I don't know - http://open.spotify.com/track/6gpspSLGVesV7AnmJyDzPx
I heard him play live in some Schubert sonatas - lovely.
I met SBK once at a party, but unfortunately I didn't realise who he was. I think I'd been introduced to him specifically because the hostess knew of my interest in music, and also in his playing.
More or less as follows ...
"Hi - I'm Steve" ... "I'm Dave".
D:"What do you do?" "Oh, I play piano a bit?"
D:"Can you make a living out of that?"
"I get by."
D:"What sort of music do you play?"
"Classical mostly - Mozart, Beethoven, Bartok"
"I try to play some of that stuff."
D:"What sort of places do you play in?"
"Oh - just a few halls around ..."
... He probably also asked me what I did, and other general stuff.
...
Eventually we went on to talk about other things - such as American football.
It was only afterwards that I realised that I'd been talking to one of my favourite pianists, and of course
he played in halls such as the RAH, RFH and many similar places in other countries.
Some musicians (most) do have off days. I'm still sorry you have a problem with Goode.
jandl100
20-04-2014, 09:39
Sorry you don't like Goode. You've hit the nail on the head with Brendel and Mozart. He has a few really good recorded performances and quite a number of merely OK ones. His recordings of early piano concertos - I think 9 and 12 - is really good, and I did enjoy an older recording (Vox) of 27. I also enjoyed his early recordings of Beethoven - such as the Waldstein sonata. Here is a more recent recording which I don't know - http://open.spotify.com/track/6gpspSLGVesV7AnmJyDzPx
I heard him play live in some Schubert sonatas - lovely.
I met SBK once at a party, but unfortunately I didn't realise who he was. I think I'd been introduced to him specifically because the hostess knew of my interest in music, and also in his playing.
More or less as follows ...
"Hi - I'm Steve" ... "I'm Dave".
D:"What do you do?" "Oh, I play piano a bit?"
D:"Can you make a living out of that?"
"I get by."
D:"What sort of music do you play?"
"Classical mostly - Mozart, Beethoven, Bartok"
"I try to play some of that stuff."
D:"What sort of places do you play in?"
"Oh - just a few halls around ..."
... He probably also asked me what I did, and other general stuff.
...
Eventually we went on to talk about other things - such as American football.
It was only afterwards that I realised that I'd been talking to one of my favourite pianists, and of course
he played in halls such as the RAH, RFH and many similar places in other countries.
Some musicians (most) do have off days. I'm still sorry you have a problem with Goode.
Nice story! :)
Goode -- ah, you think I'm missing something?
I think I had the misfortune that the first ever thing I heard Richard Goode play was a Bach disc ... Oh - My - God ... I've never heard anything so appallingly inappropriate style-wise. He seemed totally clueless to me. Not, of course, that there is only one way to play Bach, but (as Captain Corcoran says in HMS Pinafore) you have to draw the line somewhere! :)
Perhaps everything after that was tainted by expectation bias.
I did buy some Mozart piano concertos and I failed to hear any merit.
Ah well - go on, Dave - recommend me some Goode recordings to try!
jandl100
20-04-2014, 09:50
D:"What do you do?"
S: "Oh, I play piano a bit?"
D:"Can you make a living out of that?"
S: "I get by."
:o :doh: :lol:
My sympathies are with Gordon, I think I've moved on and would prefer to listen to Haydn's quartets, trios or late piano sonatas, probably also his later symphonies.
I would agree the Bohm Requiem - suggested Harnoncourt as a good more recent recording. The Bohm from the early 70s is superbly recorded from my recollection.
I would agree with some of the piano concertos, the latter the better, I would suggest 503, 491, 488, 467, 466 (Barenboim / ECO)
My preference is for Perahia and Uchida, mainly influenced by concert performance. I recall Perahia performances of Mozart piano concertos from many years ago. For me Argerich is for the Romantics.
As a non-M footnote, recently acquired the SBK Beethoven Concertos vinyl box set, minty mint. Sublime. Have them on CD, but truly wonderful on the black stuff.
On the subject of pianists exhibiting a certain amount of reserve, I read in a recent biography that John Ogdon from ages 10 to 16 had a school teacher who was a keen pianist, but only found out Ogdon played the piano when he read in the papers 10 years later that he had won the Tchaikovsky competition. Not sure I believe that one.
My sympathies are with Gordon, I think I've moved on and would prefer to listen to Haydn's quartets, trios or late piano sonatas, probably also his later symphonies.
I would agree the Bohm Requiem - suggested Harnoncourt as a good more recent recording. The Bohm from the early 70s is superbly recorded from my recollection.
I would agree with some of the piano concertos, the latter the better, I would suggest 503, 491, 488, 467, 466 (Barenboim / ECO)
My preference is for Perahia and Uchida, mainly influenced by concert performance. I recall Perahia performances of Mozart piano concertos from many years ago. For me Argerich is for the Romantics.
This is the Requiem to have:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41xL2iPvopL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
jandl100
20-04-2014, 14:47
This is the Requiem to have:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41xL2iPvopL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
Errr -- really?
Yes, that one is good, but have you heard Karl Bohm on DG, Martin?
dave2010
20-04-2014, 14:50
I missed out lots of possibilities earlier, but a couple which might not feature on every list are:
K563 Divertimento - http://open.spotify.com/track/7e3Q0Xr681FcpQadrubobH
and K452 Quintet for piano and wind - http://open.spotify.com/track/03uKWiVTDlsOC7A2527bi0
There's a touch more vibrato in the Grumiaux version of the string trio than some of us like these days - there are other versions.
I thought there used to be a nice Naxos CD of the piano and wind quintet with players from Oslo, but currently I can only find this with Jando - http://www.amazon.com/Piano-Wind-Quintet-L-V-Beethoven/dp/B0000013T3 I probably got this wrong - I think the Oslo winds did a good recording of the Dvorak wind serenade - also on Naxos. I'll need to check my CD racks for the Mozart Quintet.
Yes, that one is good, but have you heard Karl Bohm on DG, Martin?
Don't think I have, Jerry. Another one I like (although quite different) is the Gardiner.
The thing I like about the Fruhbeck de Burgos is that it's full of anger.
dave2010
21-04-2014, 11:33
Don't think I have, Jerry. Another one I like (although quite different) is the Gardiner.
The thing I like about the Fruhbeck de Burgos is that it's full of anger.I have a few versions - probably also including that de Burgos one on LP. Herreweghe's is quite good - I'd recommend that.
Re Böhm's Mozart symphonies - I have been sampling some of the collection of symphonies from around No 1 to No 14 plus some of the extra ones (>41) - for example http://open.spotify.com/track/2uyHfabftQx7n0c1v03qSh I've tried to listen to early Mozart symphonies before, and last time I struggled through to 22 (by different conductors) before starting to hear anything terribly interesting. I'm not sure the dullness is all Böhm's fault.
However it is definitely worth hearing No 25 - there are quite a few good versions. I used to like the LSO Colin Davis one a lot, but it was out of print for a long while - but has recently reappeared - though sadly only in a collection. Klemperer and Walter also recorded decent versions.
Wow! Thanks a lot guys :D
This is exactly what I wanted - wide-ranging and specific, with various recommended recordings to explore.
I shall go through the thread in detail this week, but I think I'll begin tomorrow with Jerry's recommendation of the Jando Sonata's.
Thanks again! :)
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