Record cleaning

[twotone]

Last summer I bought a Spin Clean Mk 2 vinyl cleaner from Scott Nangle aka Daytona600, one of our trade guys on AOS, for about £70 or so but I never actually got round to using it and it's been sitting in it's un-opened box since but I did get some distilled water from my window cleaner last year which has also been in the shed un-opened.

Well today I decided that cleaning records was a load of bolloxs and was going to put the thing up for sale to recover some of my dosh but thought 'oh, I'll just give a go' before selling it.

So I cleaned a few records with one particularly wrecked George Benson record that a guy on the Wam sold me as mint:rolleyes: in amongst them and I've just put George on the Technics and can hardly believe the difference, it's like a new record and dead silent, btw this record is wrecked and I mean wrecked or was.

I'm stunned frankly.

I'm now off to clean my entire record collection so I will be back in about a week:lol:

Tony

[topoxforddoc]

If you like the results of a Spinclean, then you will love the results of a vacuum RCM.

[CageyH]

It's one of my next purchases.
I'm just trying to decide which one/

[twotone]

If you like the results of a Spinclean, then you will love the results of a vacuum RCM.

Honestly Charlie, I'm astonished, I had record cleaning and record cleaning machines down as snake oil like cables but I've just cleaned a completed knackered 7" copy of Angie by the Stones which my wife bought as a 14 year old and has been played to death since and I'm hearing things in that record I never even knew were on it. Don't get me wrong it's still sounding crackly with loads of pops and clicks but you can actually hear the music in the record now.

Best £70 I've spent on hi-fi just to hear that one record properly.

Tony

[twotone]

It's one of my next purchases.
I'm just trying to decide which one/

Kevin start with the Spin Clean, you will not be disappointed believe me.

[topoxforddoc]

Tony, just buy any decent vacuum RCM machine - Moth, VPI, Okki Nokki, anything to vacuum the crud and water from the grooves. The Loricraft and Keith Monks are lovely, but don;t do the job much better in reality - they’re just a lot quieter. The others sound just like a vacuum cleaner (surprisingly!).

[twotone]

Tony, just buy any decent vacuum RCM machine - Moth, VPI, Okki Nokki, anything to vacuum the crud and water from the grooves. The Loricraft and Keith Monks are lovely, but don;t do the job much better in reality - they’re just a lot quieter. The others sound just like a vacuum cleaner (surprisingly!).

Thanks Charlie, I'll look into the price of them and see if I can convince the wife:eyebrows:

[Peter Galbavy]

I moved from the Knostis to the Spinclean but using two baths - one of 80/20 water/isopropol/rinse agent and one rinse bath in both cases. I tried the Spinclean fluid without a rinse and I didn't like it. The benefit of using the Knosti first was that I get the drying racks and the label cover/axel thing to stop the labels getting wet - as my non-brand fluid is far more runny and doesn't stay off the middle unlike the Spinclean one.

I have considered an automated cleaner but space/noise/etc. have stopped me. And I enjoy the meditative experience of rotating vinyl 6 times one way, 6 times the other etc. :)

Here's a blog post from before the Spincleans: http://www.wonderland.org/2013/11/adventures-in-record-cleaning.html

[twotone]

I moved from the Knostis to the Spinclean but using two baths - one of 80/20 water/isopropol/rinse agent and one rinse bath in both cases. I tried the Spinclean fluid without a rinse and I didn't like it. The benefit of using the Knosti first was that I get the drying racks and the label cover/axel thing to stop the labels getting wet - as my non-brand fluid is far more runny and doesn't stay off the middle unlike the Spinclean one.

I have considered an automated cleaner but space/noise/etc. have stopped me. And I enjoy the meditative experience of rotating vinyl 6 times one way, 6 times the other etc. :)

Here's a blog post from before the Spincleans: http://www.wonderland.org/2013/11/adventures-in-record-cleaning.html

Thanks Peter, one thing that I noticed right away is that there is no fluff on the stylus when I play records that have been cleaned, previously I have had to remove the fluff every time I turned a record over.

Tony

[Andrei]

I moved from the Knostis to the Spinclean but using two baths - one of 80/20 water/isopropol/rinse agent and one rinse bath in both cases. I tried the Spinclean fluid without a rinse and I didn't like it. The benefit of using the Knosti first was that I get the drying racks and the label cover/axel thing to stop the labels getting wet - as my non-brand fluid is far more runny and doesn't stay off the middle unlike the Spinclean one.

I have considered an automated cleaner but space/noise/etc. have stopped me. And I enjoy the meditative experience of rotating vinyl 6 times one way, 6 times the other etc. :)


The drying rack is really useful. I have the Spin-Clean, it is cheap and cheerful but I purchased a Knosti drying rack separately simply because there was no other place to put them out to finish drying.

[Peter Galbavy]

Thanks Peter, one thing that I noticed right away is that there is no fluff on the stylus when I play records that have been cleaned, previously I have had to remove the fluff every time I turned a record over.

Tony


This was what stopped me using the Knosti proprietary fluid - the stylus would always get crap on it after cleaning even if the anti-static properties were excellent. Now, with the generic mixture nothing, ever. I worried about the static issues (having 3 Maine Coon cats) and so after some googling I have started adding 2 drops, literally two drops, of unscented washing conditioner to a liter of the rinse water and so far so good - and no residue either.

[twotone]

I'm hearing things in records, I've known for years and years, that I've never heard before.

Fantastic up-grade for buttons.

Tony

[The Barbarian]

Sorry but never again would i use one of those type of cleaner, i destroyed the label on a very expensive LP with one.

[twotone]

Sorry but never again would i use one of those type of cleaner, i destroyed the label on a very expensive LP with one.

Total bummer Andre, I am a bit nervous about cleaning my really good records so I started off with stuff I'm not too bothered about if it gets damaged and I really can't believe what I'm hearing, either my cart has turned into something else overnight or it's the record cleaner:eek:

I'm listening to some records this afternoon that just sound stunning, I'm honestly gob smacked:cool:

[The Barbarian]

That Knosti label cover did not even completely cover the label.. O well i got rid of the cleaners now. I take my records in to a used book shop to be cleaned on a Keith Monks machine as i find vacuum machines far too expensive.

[twotone]

The Spin clean water level is well below the label BTW, none of the records that I've cleaned so far including 7" singles has water anywhere near the labels.

BTW, Scott Nangle does a record cleaning service on one of those £2k machines, German I think, he also does a RCM hire service, think the hire service is £50 for a week plus obviously postage etc.

[PaulStewart]

Hi Folks,

Shameless plug that I hope I'm allowed, when the Mrs. and I do Audio Jumbles and record fairs we do a cleaning service on a Loricraft RCM for £2.50 with a new poly lined inner. If anyone wants to send them to us with return postage we are happy to offer it as a postal service.

Cheers

[Marco]

Ahem... I'm still waiting for you to send me some of your superb record cleaning fluid to try! ;)

Marco.

[PaulStewart]

Sorry Marco, I have been mixing this in 25L batches and we sold out :doh: but I mixed a new 100L batch today and will be bottling it over the weekend. I'll post it to you and a couple of others who are waiting ASAP

[Marco]

Nice one, matey - much appreciated! :thumbsup:

Marco.

[The Barbarian]

The Spin clean water level is well below the label BTW, none of the records that I've cleaned so far including 7" singles has water anywhere near the labels.


Well the fluid ran from the top of the record down onto the label & because the label was not fully covered it was unavoidable.I tried spinning the record as the the bulk of the fluid ran off but did not work on this instance.

[Macca]

Honestly Charlie, I'm astonished, I had record cleaning and record cleaning machines down as snake oil like cables

Really? I just don't understand that.

[Ali Tait]

Buy one of these - http://www.maquinaphk.xpg.com.br/models.html

Does the same job as an expensive one, just doesn't look as good, and you need to use your vacuum cleaner to run it.

[The Barbarian]

Yeh i have an old turntable im gonna use as the basis of a DIY RCM.. Prices of new vacuum machines are just a joke imho..

[Ali Tait]

Aye, yer not wrong.

[The Barbarian]

You could use the guts out of one of these id have thought. Cheap enough

http://www.screwfix.com/p/titan-ttb350vac-1300w-16ltr-wet-dry-vacuum-cleaner-240v/36516#

[kininigin]

Buy one of these - http://www.maquinaphk.xpg.com.br/models.html

Does the same job as an expensive one, just doesn't look as good, and you need to use your vacuum cleaner to run it.

I had forgotten about that one! Think i'll take a punt at those prices!!

[Kember]

I had forgotten about that one! Think i'll take a punt at those prices!!

Darren

Unless I'm missing something, don't forget to factor in postal charges, import duty, VAt and handling fee. It soon adds up to about the cost of a second hand Okki Nokki.

P

[kininigin]

Darren

Unless I'm missing something, don't forget to factor in postal charges, import duty, VAt and handling fee. It soon adds up to about the cost of a second hand Okki Nokki.

P

Well i've sent an email to find out some more info! I realised there were be extra charges,just not sure how much extra!

[Ali Tait]

I've not got one yet, but it's on the list, next couple of weeks.

[twotone]

Really? I just don't understand that.

Don't understand what?

The hi-fi business is full of snake oil shite mate IMO.

The amount of people pushing an agenda for their particular hobby horse is unreal, the list is endless.

Records, first press or re-issues or this weight or that weight or this label or that label or yadda yada ya

Then there's cables and arms and carts and God knows what else.

Of course you then had record mats, record cleaning fluid and anything else you care to mention.

Valve amps get yer valve amps here, breathed on by angels with fairy dust in the glass, valves found in some warehouse in the Artic that have been there since 1933 with magical properties which makes the bass notes sound like a 1910 Indian motor bike starting up and these valves once belonged Ernest Hemingway but don't tell anyone cause he smuggled them out of Stalingrad when the Nazis were at the gates of the city but yours for £500 the pair:lol:

No wonder I'm skeptical.

Most of it is a complete bag of shite.

Tony

[kininigin]

Don't understand what?

The hi-fi business is full of snake oil shite mate IMO.

The amount of people pushing an agenda for their particular hobby horse is unreal, the list is endless.

Records, first press or re-issues or this weight or that weight or this label or that label or yadda yada ya

Then there's cables and arms and carts and God knows what else.

Of course you then had record mats, record cleaning fluid and anything else you care to mention.

Valve amps get yer valve amps here, breathed on by angels with fairy dust in the glass, valves found in some warehouse in the Artic that have been there since 1933 with magical properties which makes the bass notes sound like a 1910 Indian motor bike starting up and these valves once belonged Ernest Hemingway but don't tell anyone cause he smuggled them out of Stalingrad when the Nazis were at the gates of the city but yours for £500 the pair:lol:

No wonder I'm skeptical.

Most of it is a complete bag of shite.

Tony

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that having clean records is snake oil.That's probably the strangest opinion i've read in awhile! Pleased that's not the case anymore though!

[twotone]

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that having clean records is snake oil.That's probably the strangest opinion i've read in awhile! Pleased that's not the case anymore though!

Hi Darren, yep happy to admit that I was wrong mate but with £2000 RCM doing the rounds you can surely understand my cynicism, no?

[kininigin]

Hi Darren, yep happy to admit that I was wrong mate but with £2000 RCM doing the rounds you can surely understand my cynicism, no?

That would be more the exception rather than the rule! They are generally much cheaper than that,although still quite alot for what they are! They will only have a limited number of potential buyers though,so not exactly mass market machines!

I've got one of them knosti things,which is ok if you have records that haven't been cleaned for years! I wasn't sure how much better a 'proper' rcm would be than that,till i took a few records to a local audio t.They have a keith monks machine! After hearing my records once cleaned with that,i knew i had to get a decent rcm! You will be suprised again how much better they are!

I think a rcm will be my next major purchase!

[Haselsh1]

Of course you could check out my Moth MkII RCM that is for sale in the private ads. All you have to do is pay via Paypal and arrange a courier through Parcel To Go.

[Haselsh1]

By the way, I also have a Spin Clean machine and it is simply a toy compared to a good vacuum based RCM as I found out to my expense.

[Reffc]

Building your own RCM is a doddle and a LOT cheaper than buying any of the commercial ones. A good cleaning solution is relatively cheap too if you make your own.

For the RCM: take any old donor TT. I use an old defunct belt drive picked up for a few quid with the captive mains lead and belt removed.

For the vacuum hose, I bought a wet/dry garage vacuum cleaner (used for the car and workshop) and an extra nooks and crannies nozzle. I cut a slot into the nozzle, blocked the end with some MDF and drilled a 4mm air bypasss hiole in the end. Each side of the slot, I glued some carbon brush felt purchased separately for a few pounds. The idea is that when placed on the LP surface, the bypass air creates flow across the slot area evaporating the cleaning solution which is vacuumed up with sufficient suction from the slot remaining even with the air bypass in place.

For the solution:
(based on 1 litre solution):

25% 99.99 Lab grade pure IPA = 250ml
Distilled/demineralised water = 745ml
Ilfotol photographic wetting agent = 5ml

Mix well and pour into squeezy lab type 1 litre bottle with a long nozzle so you can squeeze the solution out onto the LP surface.

Use around 5-15ml/LP.

For getting it into the grooves I use a Mobile Fidelity carbon pad glued to a Focus DIY mini sander (with handle) which is perfect for the job.

With the LP on the platter, spin the platter and apply the solution all round. Use the carbon brush to scrub it in, using quarter turns of the platter (using one hand) and pressing the pad onto the surface with your other hand. A few rotations is all you need.

Next, place the modified nooks and crannies nozzle onto the LP surface, switch on the Vac and slwly rotate the LP back and forth and all traces of the solution will disappear along with any muck leaving no residue.

The solution was given to me by a specialist LP archivist who says it's all they've ever used and nothing "better" is needed.

I've certainly found that this method brings mucky LPs up like brand spanking new and is every bit as effective as any RCM imho. Its a bit of a faff but anyone can make one for very little. I'll post pictures if anyone is interested.

[chris@panteg]

Building your own RCM is a doddle and a LOT cheaper than buying any of the commercial ones. A good cleaning solution is relatively cheap too if you make your own.

For the RCM: take any old donor TT. I use an old defunct belt drive picked up for a few quid with the captive mains lead and belt removed.

For the vacuum hose, I bought a wet/dry garage vacuum cleaner (used for the car and workshop) and an extra nooks and crannies nozzle. I cut a slot into the nozzle, blocked the end with some MDF and drilled a 4mm air bypasss hiole in the end. Each side of the slot, I glued some carbon brush felt purchased separately for a few pounds. The idea is that when placed on the LP surface, the bypass air creates flow across the slot area evaporating the cleaning solution which is vacuumed up with sufficient suction from the slot remaining even with the air bypass in place.

For the solution:
(based on 1 litre solution):

25% 99.99 Lab grade pure IPA = 250ml
Distilled/demineralised water = 745ml
Ilfotol photographic wetting agent = 5ml

Mix well and pour into squeezy lab type 1 litre bottle with a long nozzle so you can squeeze the solution out onto the LP surface.

Use around 5-15ml/LP.

For getting it into the grooves I use a Mobile Fidelity carbon pad glued to a Focus DIY mini sander (with handle) which is perfect for the job.

With the LP on the platter, spin the platter and apply the solution all round. Use the carbon brush to scrub it in, using quarter turns of the platter (using one hand) and pressing the pad onto the surface with your other hand. A few rotations is all you need.

Next, place the modified nooks and crannies nozzle onto the LP surface, switch on the Vac and slwly rotate the LP back and forth and all traces of the solution will disappear along with any muck leaving no residue.

The solution was given to me by a specialist LP archivist who says it's all they've ever used and nothing "better" is needed.

I've certainly found that this method brings mucky LPs up like brand spanking new and is every bit as effective as any RCM imho. Its a bit of a faff but anyone can make one for very little. I'll post pictures if anyone is interested.

Yes interested Paul , I have a spare technics DD deck I could use ,£16 as it happens. I also have one of those Knosti cleaners so I could use it in tandem that perhaps and just vac the records off on the spare techie ?

[Reffc]

Here you go Chris:

All the tools you need excluding a cannister or wet/dry vacuum cleaner:

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/_MG_8158_zpsd57e6d69.jpg

Modified nooks and cranny nozzle:

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/_MG_8159_zps00fb4f99.jpg

Cleaning brush:

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/_MG_8160_zps34053074.jpg

[fiddlemaker]

Paul, is the stuff on your vac nozzle just a couple of strips cut from a carbon brush pad, like the one you use to apply the solution?

[Reffc]

It is John. I bought a few carbon pads and cut one into strips for the nozzle. They did around 100 LPs before they needed changing, ditto the carbon pad.

[chris@panteg]

Thanks Paul.

[fiddlemaker]

Thanks Paul.

ditto!

[Gordon Steadman]

This is interesting. I have several old bits of TT with the bearings and platters still in situ. I did wonder if it would be necessary to have the platter motorised but clearly yours works without it. I do have several motors hanging about if it would be better.

I have a very powerful shop vac for my workshop so it would be no problem modifying something along the lines of yours.

I have tried the nosti/Knosti??? thing in the past and found it inadequate. The liquid also left a nasty residue on some of my favourite LPs. I played them wet to record them but want to use them again so need to get rid of the muck.

[The Barbarian]

It is John. I bought a few carbon pads and cut one into strips for the nozzle. They did around 100 LPs before they needed changing, ditto the carbon pad.


http://www.analogueseduction.net/category-633/moth-record-cleaning-machine-replacement-felt-pads.html

[Reffc]

This is interesting. I have several old bits of TT with the bearings and platters still in situ. I did wonder if it would be necessary to have the platter motorised but clearly yours works without it. I do have several motors hanging about if it would be better.

I have a very powerful shop vac for my workshop so it would be no problem modifying something along the lines of yours.

I have tried the nosti/Knosti??? thing in the past and found it inadequate. The liquid also left a nasty residue on some of my favourite LPs. I played them wet to record them but want to use them again so need to get rid of the muck.

No motor needed Gordon. Just rotate in quarter turns by hand. Beats me why a motor is thought necessary as it just adds unnecessary complexity/cost. The platter should be fairly robust and not easily dislodged which is really the only stipulation.

I can clean a record in a few minutes. I'll post a picture of an LP I cleaned yesterday. Didn't have any "before shots" but it was filthy having been discovered by a neighbour in a box in the back of his garage!

[Gordon Steadman]

No motor needed Gordon. Just rotate in quarter turns by hand. Beats me why a motor is thought necessary as it just adds unnecessary complexity/cost. The platter should be fairly robust and not easily dislodged which is really the only stipulation.

I can clean a record in a few minutes. I'll post a picture of an LP I cleaned yesterday. Didn't have any "before shots" but it was filthy having been discovered by a neighbour in a box in the back of his garage!

I have the platter from an old AR TT which is basically solid although the top section rattles a bit. Easy enough to glue the two bits together as no drive is needed. Just have to sort out how to get the ingredients in France:scratch: Might have to go for a ready made one.

[Reffc]

Here's a few pictures:

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_8189_zps95927bed.jpg

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n577/24pacman/Hifi/_MG_8191_zps6903fb60.jpg

This LP was filthy before cleaning and it would never have gotten anywhere near my TT in that state. As you can see after cleaning it has an almost as-new sheen to it. It plays without any static either...sounds almost as good as new. Apparently it had been stored for around 20 years.

[The Barbarian]

Nice

I got an old Turntable im gonna make myself a cleaning unit from..Im the same as Gordon the plater is in two pieces, i think im gonna opt for clamping the record down when cleaning too.

[sonddek]

http://cyberphotographer.com/technics/thepvastory.mov

[The Barbarian]

Um seems a good idea technically but would it be better to soak the record in cleaner, let it dry befor applying the PVA.. & ofc first play with a spare styli.

[Peter Galbavy]

I clean my records in batched of 30-45 (15 drying per rack) and sometimes I just look and admire how fresh and new they look in the right light after they've dried. It's a satisfying thing in itself.

PS I have now completed A-N of my LPs and 12" via the two spin cleans - about 1,500 records - and the brushes are doing fine. Gone through >5 litres of 99% isopropyl plus stuff. I have also now stopped adding the unscented fabric conditioner as it did nothing for the anti-static and there's no point having something there that does nothing useful.

[twotone]

I cleaned about 25 records yesterday and frankly I am astonished at the difference, I can hardly believe it to be honest.

A RCM of any sort surely must be an essential of vinyl replay.

I've read stuff like 'it's like someone pulled back the curtains' or 'a veil was lifted' when describing speakers and the placement of them but I've never really read those same comments regarding record cleaning but that's exactly how I'm now hearing records, sometime I just stop and listen to a record that I've know intimately for forty years and suddenly the years slip away in front of me and I'm right back to my early teens.

I've said this before and at the risk of repeating myself it's the best seventy quid that I've ever spent on hi-fi (sic) gear.

Tony

[Marco]

Some get there early, some late, and some never.... Be glad that you got there eventually! ;)

Marco.

[fiddlemaker]

Building your own RCM is a doddle and a LOT cheaper than buying any of the commercial ones. A good cleaning solution is relatively cheap too if you make your own.

For the RCM: take any old donor TT. I use an old defunct belt drive picked up for a few quid with the captive mains lead and belt removed.

For the vacuum hose, I bought a wet/dry garage vacuum cleaner (used for the car and workshop) and an extra nooks and crannies nozzle. I cut a slot into the nozzle, blocked the end with some MDF and drilled a 4mm air bypasss hiole in the end. Each side of the slot, I glued some carbon brush felt purchased separately for a few pounds. The idea is that when placed on the LP surface, the bypass air creates flow across the slot area evaporating the cleaning solution which is vacuumed up with sufficient suction from the slot remaining even with the air bypass in place.

For the solution:
(based on 1 litre solution):

25% 99.99 Lab grade pure IPA = 250ml
Distilled/demineralised water = 745ml
Ilfotol photographic wetting agent = 5ml

Mix well and pour into squeezy lab type 1 litre bottle with a long nozzle so you can squeeze the solution out onto the LP surface.

Use around 5-15ml/LP.

For getting it into the grooves I use a Mobile Fidelity carbon pad glued to a Focus DIY mini sander (with handle) which is perfect for the job.

With the LP on the platter, spin the platter and apply the solution all round. Use the carbon brush to scrub it in, using quarter turns of the platter (using one hand) and pressing the pad onto the surface with your other hand. A few rotations is all you need.

Next, place the modified nooks and crannies nozzle onto the LP surface, switch on the Vac and slwly rotate the LP back and forth and all traces of the solution will disappear along with any muck leaving no residue.

The solution was given to me by a specialist LP archivist who says it's all they've ever used and nothing "better" is needed.

I've certainly found that this method brings mucky LPs up like brand spanking new and is every bit as effective as any RCM imho. Its a bit of a faff but anyone can make one for very little. I'll post pictures if anyone is interested.

This post has saved me a fortune. Got kitted out for less than 30 quid plus an old TT I had lying around anyway.
Now cleaned many records very effectively, and comparison of the manual process with a friend's Okki Nokki left me with no desire whatsoever to splash the cash on the latter.

[Gazjam]

Don't understand what?

The hi-fi business is full of snake oil shite mate IMO.

The amount of people pushing an agenda for their particular hobby horse is unreal, the list is endless.

Records, first press or re-issues or this weight or that weight or this label or that label or yadda yada ya

Then there's cables and arms and carts and God knows what else.

Of course you then had record mats, record cleaning fluid and anything else you care to mention.

Valve amps get yer valve amps here, breathed on by angels with fairy dust in the glass, valves found in some warehouse in the Artic that have been there since 1933 with magical properties which makes the bass notes sound like a 1910 Indian motor bike starting up and these valves once belonged Ernest Hemingway but don't tell anyone cause he smuggled them out of Stalingrad when the Nazis were at the gates of the city but yours for £500 the pair:lol:

No wonder I'm skeptical.

Most of it is a complete bag of shite.

Tony

This post alone gets you honorary membership the Scottish Mafia.. :)

[The Barbarian]

T Tony:

Your the man

:sofa:

[twotone]

This post alone gets you honorary membership the Scottish Mafia.. :)

:D

[twotone]

T Tony:

Your the man

:sofa:

I forgot about that post, one of my more 'florid' moments, I blame the malt:lol:

[Marco]

Hehehehe... It's posts like that which give AoS its unique 'character'! :eyebrows:

Marco.