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View Full Version : Gromit's bake-off-o-matic sun 16th March



Gromit
17-03-2008, 09:04
Had an old mate down for the w/e - he and I have pretty much the same tastes in gear and like me he definitely sits on the Flat-Earth side of the fence. Musical communication/repsonse is everything.

So...the gear:

Dynavector P75 Mk2 phonostage vs NVA Phono2 with psu
Amps: Naim NAC72/HiCap/NAP180 vs NVA P90sa/A60

All the other stuff is as per my sig. :)

I really can't be arsed going into the nitty gritty of what it all really sounded like, but all I will say is the NVA amps are so much better than the Naim rig it wasn't funny. The Naim, whilst not lacking drive and grip, seemed to gloss over important details like inner dynamics (ie musical phrasing/light & shade), on classical (the Shost 10th) the Naim was shut-in, harsh, brash, glary, lacking focus, strident and well...boring. Putting on the NVA all of a sudden the window opened - instruments gained focus, inner melodic lines were easy to follow, rhythmic intensity - the push&pull of cross-beat rhythms were more 'funky' (for want of a better description). It was simply more fun, yet lost none of the Naims' fabled 'PRaT' (whatever that is).

Now, one should weigh up the cost of the gear when new: In this case we reckoned the Naim rig's modern equivalent would be something like £3500. The NVA is about £1150 ie around 1/3 of the Naim's price. I'll leave you good people to work out the logic. ;)

Phonostages? This wasn't as clear-cut. The P75 really does need a few days to loosen up but when it does it's a very clear sounding and fun little unit. The NVA is bigger sounding, less 'pushy' perhaps (it offers a more considered approach) with a wider sonic picture. It's also less grey tonally but its bass could be considered slightly fatter than the Dyna. Upsides are its dynamic shading (all the little inflections which make music more interesting) is better and gives a more realistic amount of tonal colour - it's actually quite valve-like in this respect. It's also very quiet in terms of noise - possibly quieter even than the Dyna, itself a very hiss-free phonostage.

An honourable mention should go to my lovely Spacedeck too - I tend to take the poor thing for granted too much at times, but yesterday once all warmed up and given a good few hours' use, it was weaving some truly glorious sounds. If ever someone tells you the Spacearm is 'flat & undynamic' then send them round to mine to listen to it. The good Mr Fletcher designed this arm to match the Spacedeck perfectly, and it shows. :)

Marco
17-03-2008, 09:21
Nice write-up, Richard.

I must listen to some NVA gear, purely for reference, as I like to recommend good kit to others and you can't do it if you haven't heard it. I do like Mr Dunn's approach to hi-fi - it appeals to my purist sensibilities :)

The P75 also gets a good rep - again I haven't heard this device, but from your description it sounds like it would appeal to me. Have you ever listened to any of the Graham Slee phono stages around that price? They're pretty good, too.

Marco.

Gromit
17-03-2008, 09:26
Have you ever listened to any of the Graham Slee phono stages around that price? They're pretty good, too.

Marco.

Hi Marco - never heard the Slee phonostages unfortunatley. I do have his Solo 'phones amp which is a very good sounding little box. If the phono amps are of a similar performance standard I'd expect them to be very good.

If the NVA, P75, and the Puresound P10 (which I owned until recently) are anything to go by, we've never had it so good for high quality sound at such reasonable cost. :)

Marco
17-03-2008, 09:33
Absolutely. Isn't it strange that in this age of (supposedly) dying interest in traditional hi-fi that there has never been a better selection of quality turntables, cartridges and phono stages - all at reasonable prices? ;)

The Solo interests me very much, and would love to hear one as I'll soon be in the market for a high quality headphone amp. Is yours the top model - the one that the BBC uses?

Marco.

Gromit
17-03-2008, 09:38
Absolutely. Isn't it strange that in this age of (supposedly) dying interest in traditional hi-fi that there has never been a better selection of quality turntables, cartridges and phono stages - all at reasonable prices? ;)

Amen to that - definitely something to celebrate. :)


The Solo interests me very much, and would love to hear one as I'll soon be in the market for a high quality headphone amp. Is yours the top model - the one that the BBC uses?

Marco.

I'm not sure what the Beeb uses but mine is the one with the upgraded psu (PSU1). Was certainly worth the extra few quid over the std one. The Solo does take a long time to run in though, as Graham says.

JonR
17-03-2008, 09:51
So you sold the P10 then Richard?

Damn shame! ;)

Where did the NVA score over it?

Marco
17-03-2008, 09:56
Richard,

There's the 'Intro' Solo, which is the cheaper one, and the 'Solo PSU1', which is used by the Beeb. You've got the good one! :)

Marco.

Gromit
17-03-2008, 10:06
So you sold the P10 then Richard?

Damn shame! ;)

Where did the NVA score over it?

Hi Jon - sorry!!

Didn't get the chance to compare the P10 with the Phono2, although my sonic memory of it (however (un)reliable that be!) would say there are actually quite a lot of similarities between them. There's a definite sense of musical 'rightness' about them, and plenty of tonal colour - instruments have a decent sense of reality, and don't sound processed; something the P75 can tend to display, especially on acoustic piano.

Both the NVA and P10 allow the music to evolve and grow - when the scoring gets heavy (the Shostakovich was a good example) the Phono2 lets it breathe, not seeming to top out nor get flustered at the amount of information coming through.

Just listening to some Human League on vinyl at the moment - 'The Lebanon' a track which often used to sound noisy...shouty and just too much. Now, it's definitely still a 'big' track with lots going on but it's not hitting the end-stops and losing focus. Better dash....time for side 2. :)

griffo104
20-03-2008, 13:43
An honourable mention should go to my lovely Spacedeck too - I tend to take the poor thing for granted too much at times, but yesterday once all warmed up and given a good few hours' use, it was weaving some truly glorious sounds. If ever someone tells you the Spacearm is 'flat & undynamic' then send them round to mine to listen to it. The good Mr Fletcher designed this arm to match the Spacedeck perfectly, and it shows. :)

Gromit, never take your front end for granted. It's still the most important bit for me but that's probably my flat-earthiness coming through.

Good to see you're enjoying the new setup, no longer missing the Exposure's then ?

Very surprised you let the P10 go.

leo
20-03-2008, 21:12
I've heard the Reflex and Revelation with the Technics SL1210 MKII, sounded excellent IMO

I have a Green Solo headphone amp thats been modified to be used with a PSU1, sounds great with the AKG K701's

Must get myself a TT sometime!

Mike Reed
23-03-2008, 13:44
GROMIT

Very interesting comparisons, but I'm a little confused.

As you've got a Dorian (and I have a Helikon), I'm not sure why you're trialling these three (I believe, quite dissimilar) units.

The Puresound requires a matching transformer, I believe, before it can be used with a low-output m.c. (and with a healthy 0.5mv output, why bother?)

The Dynavector, I thought, was an active stage in its own right; with p/supply, and no trans. needed.

What is the NVA ? A stand-alone, powered active stage or like the puresound? If the former, how many permutations (if any) does it have for the differing resistance and capacitance values that different cartridges interface with?

If I move from my Lyra to Koetsu, I'll need to seriously consider this aspect,
though the new Naim phono stage seems to address these issues.

BTW, I heard a Shostakovich symphony (I think) on Classic FM recently, and noted 'festive' or something similar being mentioned, but can only find reference to a Festive Overture in my Penguin Guide. I don't think I have any Shost., and liked what I heard. Any ideas?

Cheers,

Mike

Gromit
23-03-2008, 16:10
GROMIT

Very interesting comparisons, but I'm a little confused.

As you've got a Dorian (and I have a Helikon), I'm not sure why you're trialling these three (I believe, quite dissimilar) units.

The Puresound requires a matching transformer, I believe, before it can be used with a low-output m.c. (and with a healthy 0.5mv output, why bother?)

The Dynavector, I thought, was an active stage in its own right; with p/supply, and no trans. needed.

What is the NVA ? A stand-alone, powered active stage or like the puresound? If the former, how many permutations (if any) does it have for the differing resistance and capacitance values that different cartridges interface with?

Hi Mike - that these phono stages are very different is the very reason why I've been doing a bit of fiddling. The P10 has to use a step-up; the Lyra's output is still way too low to let it work properly, anbd I believe an impedence-matched step-up is the best way of letting it do its best.

The NVA is a fully active stage with a large toroidal psu in a separate box. Works very well in my opinion.


BTW, I heard a Shostakovich symphony (I think) on Classic FM recently, and noted 'festive' or something similar being mentioned, but can only find reference to a Festive Overture in my Penguin Guide. I don't think I have any Shost., and liked what I heard. Any ideas?

Cheers,

Mike

If it was Classic FM I very much doubt they'd be playing a Shostakovich symphony - faaaaar too adventurous ;)

Seriously, you'll most likely have heard the Festive Overture; a very popular and 'tuneful' bit of Dimitri's finest. 'Feel good' music. :)

Want to get into some Shostakovich? Try these...

10th Sym - especially the 2nd movement. Terrifying, gripping stuff; possibly my favourite movement of any Shostakovich symphony. Feindish woodwind parts.
5th Sym (perhaps the most popular along with the 7th). Slow movement is especially beautiful - cold, stark, like a Russian winter.

Also try...

24 Preludes and Fugues (piano).

Mike Reed
23-03-2008, 20:07
Thanks for that.

Glad to hear the NVA (your preferred option, I feel) is a fully power-supplied active stage. Don't know what its verstility is with impedance etc. matching; maybe it's just internally fixed for a specific parameter.

My friend rubbishes Classic FM (and also on sound quality grounds; his signal's not as strong as mine!). You'd be surprised what weird 'classical' music they play; more esoteric that Radio 3 sometimes , but not often.

The ads are a pain, but one psychologically attunes (or detunes, I should say) to this. You may be right about the Festive Ov., and thanks for the other suggestions; must get onto E-bay and see what's going!

Regards,

Mike (p.s. Where are you going after the Dorian? After Clavis and Helikon, I feel like a change, but since I took it off for a good clean it sounds fantastic so I won't rush)

Gromit
24-03-2008, 09:30
Mike (p.s. Where are you going after the Dorian? After Clavis and Helikon, I feel like a change, but since I took it off for a good clean it sounds fantastic so I won't rush)

After the Dorian? I'm not sure I want to change it tbh - it matches the Spacearm very well - the S'arm's slightly soft yet wondefully colourful and spacious (typical unipivot) presentation is countered by the Dorian's speed and excellent dynamics to produce a very satisfying, musical sound. It just seems to get on with the job of reproducing whatever's asked of it. :)

As to the NVA stage I believe Richard will match with the cartridge of your choice.