Service/upgrading my SME 3009 tonearm advice?

[Tim]

Just asking for some advice re servicing upgrading my SME 3009 tonearm? I am aware that Dom does this (I think?) at Northwest Analogue, also aware of Johnnie at Audio Origami and Sonik Sircle too. Anyone got any more suggestions for how I should approach this or should I consider a new tonearm, perhaps a Jelco 750? . . . look at me talking about tonearms like I know what I'm on about :lol:

[Tim]

Holy Smoke, this post appeared on Google's search engine in under 5 minutes :stalks:

Appeared at item #6 in the list when searching for info re my post content, that's scary fast and Google really is The Matrix!

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/google_zpse2a2959d.jpg (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/google_zpse2a2959d.jpg.html)

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's spooky isn't it TIm?
Regarding your arm, as a Steyning boy, I ought to point out that SME will service it for you. Pricey though nowadays.

[CageyH]

The biggest question for me is "Am I happy with the sound?".
If yes, get it serviced, if no, either get it rewired with a better cable or upgrade the arm completely.

What deck is this on?

[The Barbarian]

tbh Tim

It wants a re-wire, new tags..New coupling

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SME-3009-3012-Rubber-Armtube-Coupling-Grommet-1808-9-/111050530967?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19db20a097


Regarding the original base connector thats up to you if you want it to stay original or have an RCA mod fitted, then you can decide on a new interconnect..

[DSJR]

Internal re-wiring can probably be done by yourself Tim, as long as you buy a decent set of precision screwdrivers that won't knurl the screws holding the arm together and take care with the black wire that connects the tube to the bearing casing. The old Bulgin? plug and socket is silver plated (solid silver?) and can be carefully cleaned. The best phono conversion is the Series III one with nice gold sockets IMO and the slim profile allows use on a wider range of turntables. External cables could quite easily be Van Damme Pro-Patch mic cables, which AO use. Flexible and easy to solder with suitable heat-shrink to finish off, you should find this ideal and not worth the extra for fancy-foo expensive wires with this arm.

Does the coupling need replacing as a matter of course, or is it only needed if the rear outrigger sags, or falls off?

[The Black Adder]

Johnny did my 3009 SII (None improved) not so long back... re-wire, cleaned and checked the bearings etc. He re-wired it to the original plug which is superb when it's cleaned up. New decoupling bushes too. A superb upgrade if you are used to hearing the arm with the original cable.

[Wakefield Turntables]

+1 for Audio Origami, my SME 3012 is having a nice holiday their at the moment.

[The Black Adder]

+1 for Audio Origami, my SME 3012 is having a nice holiday their at the moment.

Yep! J7 Rocks... :)

[Tim]

Great stuff chaps, I must admit I have read good things about Johnnie, but I might consider a rewire myself as David suggests, some very good guides out there detailing a full strip down. Food for thought and thanks for that link too André.

I have not heard this arm yet as its the one on the 401 awaiting restoration, but I do like how 3009's sound and I come from an era when this was the arm a lot of my mates had, so I don't really want to change its characteristics too much. In my mind at the moment its a contender for fitting to a Gyro SE with something like a Denon DL-103. But all advice is welcome as my TT experience and knowledge is 30 years behind the times, so I have a good deal of catching up to do :o

[The Barbarian]

As Dave points out the proper SME '3009' Phono conversion kits is basically what they used on the later 'Series III' arm.. I don't know if you can still buy this kit, but i paid about £75 for mine.. If you are gonna use J7 id try get one of these kits, send it up with the arm & alser get Johnny to fit a bronze knife edge bearing while yer at it loike..

[Tim]

I think that's probably where I am heading André ;)

[worrasf]

As Dave points out the proper SME '3009' Phono conversion kits is basically what they used on the later 'Series III' arm.. I don't know if you can still buy this kit, but i paid about £75 for mine.. If you are gonna use J7 id try get one of these kits, send it up with the arm & alser get Johnny to fit a bronze knife edge bearing while yer at it loike..

Another +1 for J7. I purchased the phono conversion kit you describe (from Germany if memory serves) and the seller shipped it direct to J7 who fitted it, rewired the arm (3009 II improved and checked all bearings etc etc. Came back better than new.

[The Black Adder]

As Dave points out the proper SME '3009' Phono conversion kits is basically what they used on the later 'Series III' arm.. I don't know if you can still buy this kit, but i paid about £75 for mine.. If you are gonna use J7 id try get one of these kits, send it up with the arm & alser get Johnny to fit a bronze knife edge bearing while yer at it loike..

But remember if the original knife edge bearings are in decent condition there really isn't anything better...

Chances are, Tim the dash pot will need re-filling with oil too.

You can still get the SME phono kit. Johnny can fit this too. Also, with this kit make sure you have enough room under the deck to accommodate the plugs sticking out.. Which is why the orginal plug is great for.

Carts, well I've had the Shure V15 and now using the Goldring G800 by NWA. - These arms are very good indeed. They were originally advertised with using a DECCA MKIII I think but people have tried the DECCA Gold with great results too.

[Tim]

Thanks for that Joe - I think refurbishing is the way to go rather than buying another arm. I always admired these as a yoof, but they were beyond my budget. A friend of mine still has one on an LP12 in fact and it would be nice to have a bit of nostalgia in my room :)

[The Barbarian]

But remember if the original knife edge bearings are in decent condition there really isn't anything better...



Na still gonna get mine changed anyway.

http://www.analogtubeaudio.de/index.php?article_id=52&clang=1&datei=446x358-sme3012-2.jpg&galerie=0&pos=10

Greatest arm ever made imho, well worth spending on..

[Barry]

It's spooky isn't it Tim?
Regarding your arm, as a Steyning boy, I ought to point out that SME will service it for you. Pricey though nowadays.

I spoke to SME not so long ago, regarding servicing my forty year old SME 3009/S2 arm. Sadly SME say they no longer service these arms, and by implication, neither will they service the 3012 arms.

Tim, I would suggest you contact Audio Origami, as these people are held in very high regard for the work they do on refurbishing/upgrading arms.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Ah, I didn't realise that Barry. Cameron Aikman wants a good spanking in that case!

[Barry]

Internal re-wiring can probably be done by yourself Tim, as long as you buy a decent set of precision screwdrivers that won't knurl the screws holding the arm together and take care with the black wire that connects the tube to the bearing casing. The old Bulgin? plug and socket is silver plated (solid silver?) and can be carefully cleaned. The best phono conversion is the Series III one with nice gold sockets IMO and the slim profile allows use on a wider range of turntables. External cables could quite easily be Van Damme Pro-Patch mic cables, which AO use. Flexible and easy to solder with suitable heat-shrink to finish off, you should find this ideal and not worth the extra for fancy-foo expensive wires with this arm.

Does the coupling need replacing as a matter of course, or is it only needed if the rear outrigger sags, or falls off?

Actually the connector is a modified Belling & Lee "Unitor" 4-way plug and socket. The pins are silver plated (not solid silver) and the sockets are unplated phosphor copper.

Should Tim want to repace the original connector with a pair of RCA phonos there are several kits on sale on eBay, if SME no longer sell their own. I have kept the origninal connector on all my SME 3000 series arms as I intend to go down the fully balanced route, from cartridge to speakers.

[Barry]

Na still gonna get mine changed anyway.

http://www.analogtubeaudio.de/index.php?article_id=52&clang=1&datei=446x358-sme3012-2.jpg&galerie=0&pos=10

Greatest arm ever made imho, well worth spending on..

I believe Tim's arm is the original Series II SME 3009/S2 arm, rather than the Improved version. As such it will use steel knife-edge bearings for the horizontal bearing. As far as I'm concerned "the jury is still out" regarding the replacement of the steel bearings with those made from bronze.

[The Black Adder]

I heard somewhere... I'll try and find out for sure that because bronze is a softer metal it's harder to machine precisely (to the same tolerance as steel) therefore the knife edges on the bronze ones are not as precise as the steel ones. In fact, on comparison they look rather blunt under magnification.

Someone may correct me here though... But I much prefer to keep the looks of the arm myself anyway.

[Barry]

But remember if the original knife edge bearings are in decent condition there really isn't anything better...

Chances are, Tim the dash pot will need re-filling with oil too.

You can still get the SME phono kit. Johnny can fit this too. Also, with this kit make sure you have enough room under the deck to accommodate the plugs sticking out.. Which is why the orginal plug is great for.

Carts, well I've had the Shure V15 and now using the Goldring G800 by NWA. - These arms are very good indeed. They were originally advertised with using a DECCA MKIII I think but people have tried the DECCA Gold with great results too.

Historically Alistair Robertson-Aikman designed and built the arm for use with the Ortofon SPU (and in doing so, adopted the Ortofon design for the bayonet arm/cartridge coupling that has now become universal). The arm was advertised for sale with an 'empty' Ortofon whale-shaped headshell made by SME, then later, after SME had developed the perforated S2 headshell, the Shure M55E and later still the Shure V15E.

From the outset SME marketed the D1 adaptor, allowing the use of Decca Mk. I, Mk. II, Mk. III and Mk. IV cartridges to be used with the 3000 arms.

I have used Decca Mk. V and mk. VI cartridges (both having 1/2" headshell fixings) in SME 3009 arms with success, but do believe that to do so, one needs to fit the FD 200 damper dashpot to the arm and use the smallest paddle.

[jaym481]

Historically Alistair Robertson-Aikman designed and built the arm for use with the Ortofon SPU (and in doing so, adopted the Ortofon design for the bayonet arm/cartridge coupling that has now become universal). The arm was advertised for sale with an 'empty' Ortofon whale-shaped headshell made by SME, then later, after SME had developed the perforated S2 headshell, the Shure M55E and later still the Shure V15E.

From the outset SME marketed the D1 adaptor, allowing the use of Decca Mk. I, Mk. II, Mk. III and Mk. IV cartridges to be used with the 3000 arms.

I have used Decca Mk. V and mk. VI cartridges (both having 1/2" headshell fixings) in SME 3009 arms with success, but do believe that to do so, one needs to fit the FD 200 damper dashpot to the arm and use the smallest paddle.

The effective mass of the arms also decreased, and not just due to progressively lighter headshells. The SPUs and Deccas are the antithesis of the Shure light-tracking/high-compliance philosophy. My own 3009 is a very early series II, as it has the split weight without the ability to slide the rear weight/wayrod assembly on the stub. It also has a 4 digit s/n starting with 1 and came with the Ortofon SPU-style headshell with SME badge. I should probably send it off to J7 for a once-over.

[Johnnie7]

the sme 3009/3012 arms are one of the fundamental old skool arms...and the build quality is outstanding
obviously these arms are getting on for about 30-40 years old and certainly in need of a service to squeeze the last bit out :)

once the original sme 4 pin connector is cleaned up they are actually not too bad...
but if i was going to change to phonos then the SME phono conversion kit WITHOUT EXTERNAL leads is a dam good side ways move (pardon the pun :) ) hehhe

the german phono conversion points down ways so you need a lot of room under the deck...but again its a wonderful bit of kit


the brass bearings are worth if the old metal bearing is blunt of chipped...but otherwise i say keep the original black metal bearing

the connector on the headshell can be replaced if its got slack pins and the headshell fits in real easy...with a new connector you have to really push the headshell in before it grabs the lock nut and this contact pressure is very important...and cleaning the connector pins inside the arm tube needs to be done with care as the plating can come off if you rub with an abrasive material

hope that helps

bw
j7

[The Barbarian]

I believe Tim's arm is the original Series II SME 3009/S2 arm, rather than the Improved version. As such it will use steel knife-edge bearings for the horizontal bearing.

Yes im well aware what arm it is..Been there done it loike..

[mjkelshaw]

As Dave points out the proper SME '3009' Phono conversion kits is basically what they used on the later 'Series III' arm.. I don't know if you can still buy this kit, but i paid about £75 for mine.. If you are gonna use J7 id try get one of these kits, send it up with the arm & alser get Johnny to fit a bronze knife edge bearing while yer at it loike..

SME do still stock some spares for the 3009 / 3012 and list them on their website.
However the costs are quite high, I purchased an 'RCA' socket conversion last year and the cost was £249:61. This socket came complete with a new lead, unfortunately I wasn't aware that there was an option to purchase the socket without one.
I sent the conversion socket along with a rather sorry looking 3009 S2 to J7 for replacement of the rubber stub connector and a re-wire - it came back looking like new. I have to add that the service from J7 is 'first class +'. It really was a "pleasure doing business with him".

Regards

Mike Kelshaw

[Tim]

hope that helps

j7
It sure does Johnnie and many thanks for replying to the thread, I'll be getting in touch for an overhaul of my arm if that's OK?

I love AoS, here I am looking for some help and not only do I get good advice, but Johnnie pops up too - nice one chaps http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w63/greatgig/thumbsup.gif (http://s173.photobucket.com/user/greatgig/media/thumbsup.gif.html)