£500 kitchen system with wall mounted speakers - Linn Sara + XTZ A100D3 amplifier?

[BilliumB]

I've been looking to put together a <£500 kitchen system with wall mounted speakers and noticed that some people have been successfully using the XTZ integrated amp (with on-board DAC) to drive Linn Sara speakers.

I realise that many people don't like the Sara's, but wonder if this is due to poor amp matching. I understand that the Sara's work best against a wall and so could fit my needs very well.

Anyway, I was recently offered a pair of Sara's and stands for about £250 - (they sounded good to me) which I'm thinking about using for a kitchen system (I'd use the stands elsewhere). The plan would be to mount the speakers on the wall (at about 5ft-6ft, angled slightly downwards towards the main listening position, from the narrow end of the room) - this is driven by space issues (the room is about 4.5m x 3.5m). I would probably weld up some sort of bracket, or even use some sort of wooden fixing screwed into the back of the speakers. I was concerned that I'd have to pay loads for a suitable amp, but the xtz looks very interesting (with its ability to drive low impedance loads and its on-board DAC), especially second hand (seem to be on ebay at £250-£300 ish).

The fact that our kitchen doesn't have any carpet or much in the way of soft furnishings is, I'm sure going to affect the sound.

I plan to initially drive the system via an ipad playing spotify 320k and internet radio, via airplay through an airport express (optical out into the xtz) - I currently do this into a Beresford Dac, Rega Brio and Heybrook HB2 speakers in my office system and I'm really pleased with it (had originally planned to move this system to the kitchen, but now think I may leave it in the office). In the long run, I plan to feed everything at a higher data rate using a NAS and streamer of some sort.

We listen to all sorts - the system would probably be connected to radio 4 or 6 for much of the time, otherwise various music, but probably not too loud.

So, from your experience, do you have any thoughts? Xtz (or other second hand amp costing max £300) driving the Sara's? Mounting the Sara's high on the wall, angled slightly downwards? Issues with room 'brightness'/'hardness'. Is the Dac within the XTZ OK?

Would the XTZ cost a lot to run? What sort of current would it draw from the mains?

Am I being crazy? Should I go for a much easier to drive speaker, or will the Sara's be worth the effort? I don't really want to spend more than around £500 - £600 on the complete system, all 2nd hand (say: sara £250, xtz £250, Airport Express £45, connections £50).

An obvious alternative would be some sort of stand alone airplay speaker, but I doubt that the sound would really be that great, and the cost wouldn't be that much less.

Thanks very much for any advice that you might have.

All the best.

Bill

[Roy S]

Give us a link to one of these XTZs at £250!

[BilliumB]

One just sold on ebay for £275 on a buy it now - 12 March.

[roob]

Just get a Sonos Play 1 and bridge;)

[hoopsontoast]

£250 for that XTZ is a bargain, I have heard the power amp version and its a cracker!

[Macca]

The XTZ is a good choice - it won't cost you much to run it unless you are planning to use it in class A mode and have it on all the time. The DAC is adequate for your needs although I have not found it to be superior to the DACs in my CD players. It is big though so you will need to find room in the kitchen unless you have planned for that already. Linn Saras I don't know but I would guess any speaker designed to be placed against a wall will work and the XTZ will drive pretty much anything in comfort. £250 used is pretty much giving it away IMO, I would buy a second one if I saw one at that price even though I don't need it. Hope that is some help.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Interesting.
I'd never think of building a system for the kitchen around Linn Saras - tricky, I'd imagine. Not to be rude, but I'd never imagine building a system around Saras at all, but there you go! My own view is that you'd probably do better by getting yourself a nice old pair of AR7 or 6 if you can find some. It's save you about £200 - even if they need re-foaming and they'll be a lot easier on the amp.
Good luck with it, whatever you decide to do.

[BilliumB]

Thanks everyone for the advice so far. It seems that the XTZ offers good value and would probably drive the Saras. But that opinion is divided on the idea of using Saras in a kitchen system, or even for any system at all!

Anyone here think that Saras are a good idea? I've no real experience of them, but on reading various posts across the net, some people seem to rave about them. Any more thoughts?

Christ, when you say that building a system around the Saras would be tricky, could you please explain a bit more (is it an issue with the 'hardness' of the room)? I understand that they are a difficult load to drive, but this was why I thought of the XTZ Amp, which I understand can cope well with low impedance, and others have used with Saras. I thought of the Saras as I've been offered a pair locally, because I understand that they work best against a solid wall (my existing speakers are rear ported), and because some people seem to love them.

Thanks.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I've heard several systems with these speakers in the past, on quite a few occasions and I hated them every time! I thought they were awful and in every case, when the owner changed the speakers, things improved. I know some people liked them and that's fine but I could never live with them - they seemed all bass and treble and almost nothing of any substance in between.
However, you may love them.
The trickiness I mentioned would be that you're proposing to build a system around a demanding speaker, which immediately limits your choices and flexibility. Put it in a weird acoustic environment like a kitchen with reflective surfaces everywhere and I'd think you'd be struggling to make it sound really good.

The reason I mentioned AR speakers is that apart from (in my opinion) sounding great, just like the Sara they manage to get some deeper than you'd expect bass from a relatively small box and they are meant to go against the wall. Also they are very forgiving of the room, the placement and the listening position.

[Macca]

How easy is it to get some AR speakers, though? Personally If I was setting up a kitchen system I would get some jbl control 1 new for about sixty notes and that includes the wall mounting brackets. DAC for thirty quid and a Denon or Rotel or similar amp say fifty quid. Job done at less than a ton and a half all in. You don't need anything fancier than that for background listening in a kitchen.

[The Grand Wazoo]

How easy is it to get some AR speakers, though?

Well, there are at least 6 pairs of ARs of different descriptions on Ebay at this minute, so pretty easy really. I bought a pair of 2ax at Christmas for well under 40 quid - I'm listening to them now and they sound fantastic. I also have a pair of 44BX standmount monsters, which I paid £5.50 for!

[istari_knight]

Bose Wave radio ?

[Macca]

Didn't your ARs need refoaming though, Chris?

[istari_knight]

Didn't your ARs need refoaming though, Chris?

AFAIK, AR4 / AR4xa are the only one's that don't require refoaming as they use cloth surrounds.

[The Grand Wazoo]

The 44s did. But that cost £17, so £22.50 in total - less than a tenth of the Saras in the OP and a bloody sight easier to make sound good. I use them in my office, connected to a Mini-T and they sound incredible.
The Saras are really fussy about siting and I'd think that wall mounting in a kitchen would give you a fairly limited number of possible positions due to all the stuff that hangs off most kitchen walls.

[Macca]

All makes sense. So what I said except with the AR instead of the JBLs.

Or a Bose Wave Radio. Oprah recommends them.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Oprah recommends them.

That should swing it then!

[istari_knight]

Or a Bose Wave Radio. Oprah recommends them.

Took a whole 7 minutes for a comment ! :D

:fishing:

[Macca]

Took a whole 7 minutes for a comment ! :D

:fishing:

Might be shit hot for all I know I have never heard one. Although did have a work colleague once who had one and thought it was the business. I suppose it is all about frames of reference. I was going to get one for my old mum once but they are not cheap.

[istari_knight]

They are fantastic clock radio's... Problem is some people get confused & think they're a viable replacement for a hifi system.

[BilliumB]

OK, so I understand that you don't like the Saras - and I don't have the experience to argue. However I'm not just aiming for 'background' listening, in fact probably 1/2 of all our listening of any sort will be in the kitchen.

The kitchen doesn't have any wall units, and so positioning on the end wall fairly 'evenly' shouldn't be too much of a problem. However, the speakers will have to be mounted at around 5-6ft high.

So, what do you think is the best system that I could put together for around £500. On the basis that I need to wall mount the speakers. Let's say £500 total for speakers and amplification - I'm aiming to get the best sound and not looking to make any savings on my vast budget!

This could be interesting.

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's OK Bill, I wouldn't argue with you over whether I liked them or not! I also wouldn't presume to think that you won't like them - lots of people think they're fantastic. But I think you might struggle to get them to give their best in that position. Wall mounting speakers that are fussy about placement isn't going to be easy is it? I mean you're not going to be able to fine tune that at all......"Pass the drill and spirit level, I think I might try shifting them another six inches further apart".......is not a statement you are going to want to make too many times!

I've said enough, so I'll let others suggest alternatives.

[BilliumB]

No Chris, please don't stop.

What do you think would be best for my requirement for amp and wall mount speakers for £500.

I really am looking for advice - I have had much to do with audio kit since the late 80's, so don't know what's out there (but have been reading the forum(s) over the last few weeks)!

[PaulStewart]

How easy is it to get some AR speakers, though? Personally If I was setting up a kitchen system I would get some jbl control 1 new for about sixty notes and that includes the wall mounting brackets. DAC for thirty quid and a Denon or Rotel or similar amp say fifty quid. Job done at less than a ton and a half all in. You don't need anything fancier than that for background listening in a kitchen.

+1 to that. Also, don't forget that the oil/fat vapour in the air in a kitchen plays hell with HiFi components, especially any speakers with foam surrounds.

[BilliumB]

Any more thoughts?