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bigmoog
29-06-2009, 11:57
1: dont put it in a unipivot of any quality, a waste of time, the whole assembly will just wibble wobble and the decca with transmit this into the music

2: dont use it on a three point suspended flip flop AR copy turntable of any description as the decca will just reproduce the undulations emanating from a flawed cheapo engineering solution using grommets and springs that was pure tomfoolery (imho...imho)..(I owned such transcription devices...)

3:Put thee decca in a nicely made medium/high mass arm

4: keep it clean

5: set it up carefully

6: make sure one spike of your TT stand is resting on a 3mm slice of paper and all your curtains have a pin placed thru each bottom edge

7: Own at least two as one will always need fiddling with

8: listen to music




in my opinion very few cartridges reproduce music in a realistic way (as far as it goes....), in my experience, in systems I either owned or heard - only the WIN Fet-10, SPUs and Ikeda cartridges made music sound more 'real'....or as satisfyingly musical as a decca cartridge...SPUs come very close as do some denons and other highly priced MCs with price tags beyond sense, but none match the visceral punch of decca cartridge


PS (Im not Ken Kessler):eyebrows::eyebrows:

Clive
29-06-2009, 12:16
Recent London (Decca) review here:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0609/london_super_gold_jubilee.htm

bigmoog
29-06-2009, 12:21
Thanks Clive, I had not seen this review yet.....putting a Decca in a linear tracker??.....nutty......(nice that Terminator arm tho'......)

Clive
29-06-2009, 15:22
The latest version of the Terminator looks even better:
http://www.trans-fi.com/Terminator%20III/T3PROnew005.jpg

The Londons/Deccas work really well with it. I'm left with the feeling that most other cartridges in comparison are lying about the music they are playing.

DSJR
29-06-2009, 15:31
I don't think that arm would fit the Dual - OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

It depends on the unipivot BM. The Mentor arm and its descendants should be stable enough methinks and a mate's 301/Bastin plinth/Omega Point arm and VDH (?) London Silver sounded amazing...

P.S. NAS tonearms used to be unipivots with stabilisers, rather like Stax did with their UA7 tonearm.

Get the deck right and there really is *something* about a good Decca. I think the "SPU" is too bassy and dull for me (research is however ongoing on that opinion...).

Here's me Decca, all on its lonesome awaiting a decent turntable to out it in...

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q8/DSJR_photos/TheeDecca062009.jpg

bigmoog
29-06-2009, 15:40
the terminator arm looks lovely........


I think a good working decca is the perfect route to music, as it energises the playback,,,,sort of like listening to decent tape or being in a studio.....I used to be in bands and live music has the same quality as deccacartridges or vice versa...that intangible rightness or realism

Barry
29-06-2009, 16:18
1: Don't put it in a unipivot of any quality, a waste of time, the whole assembly will just wibble wobble and the decca with transmit this into the music

2: Don't use it on a three point suspended flip flop AR copy turntable of any description as the decca will just reproduce the undulations emanating from a flawed cheapo engineering solution using grommets and springs that was pure tomfoolery (imho...imho)..(I owned such transcription devices...)

3: Put thee Decca in a nicely made medium/high mass arm

4: Keep it clean

5: Set it up carefully

6: Make sure one spike of your TT stand is resting on a 3mm slice of paper and all your curtains have a pin placed thru each bottom edge

7: Own at least two as one will always need fiddling with

8: Listen to music


In my opinion very few cartridges reproduce music in a realistic way (as far as it goes....), in my experience, in systems I either owned or heard - only the WIN Fet-10, SPUs and Ikeda cartridges made music sound more 'real'....or as satisfyingly musical as a Decca cartridge...SPUs come very close as do some denons and other highly priced MCs with price tags beyond sense, but none match the visceral punch of Decca cartridge


PS (I'm not Ken Kessler):eyebrows::eyebrows:

Point 1. Most of Decca's arms were unipivot designs that had pivot damping.

Point 2. The Decca/Hadcock/Linn was a viable combination.

Point 3. I have successfuly used a Decca in a damped Infinity Black Widow arm (3g effective mass).

Point 4. Agreed, but that applies to all cartridges.

Point 5. Agreed, ditto as above.

Point 6. No need - my listening room is aligned along a layline :lol:

Point 7. I do and they don't.

Point 8. I much prefer to listen to test tones and tracking tests. :lol:

On a more serious note, do you have any comments on the electrical loading that Deccas like to see and on the deliberate decoupling between cartridge and arm that some users employ?

Regards

Marco
29-06-2009, 16:25
The latest version of the Terminator looks even better:
http://www.trans-fi.com/Terminator%20III/T3PROnew005.jpg

The Londons/Deccas work really well with it. I'm left with the feeling that most other cartridges in comparison are lying about the music they are playing.

That's MUCH more like it, Clive. The Terminator is starting to look sexy now! Just starting, though. It's still a touch too brutal and 'industrial' in appearance for me, almost like an instrument of torture :eyebrows:

Given that my idea of a truly sexy looking arm is this (and probably my ultimate T/T, too!):


http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/726/72436516.png (http://img81.imageshack.us/i/72436516.png/)


...I doubt that the Terminator will ever be quite my thing, aesthetically. Sonically, there's no question though it sounds superb :smoking:

See some other nice pics of Schick-adorned decks here: http://www.thomas-schick.com/arm06.htm

Dave, that Decca looks really cool, and I'm sure will sound fantastic on the right arm and T/T. I love Deccas and agree with all the comments here about them, although I disagree about SPUs being dull and bassy - not the ones I've heard!!

For me, Deccas, SPUs, DL103s (when properly 'sorted'), Shure M3D, and the EMT XSD/TSD15, are what I would call 'proper' cartridges for genuine enthusiasts, as they sound truly musical without trading tone and timbre (so important to the accurate portrayal of music) for forensic detail retrieval, and a cold and clinical sound as a result - a mortal sin, as far as I'm concerned, committed by the vast majority of today's cartridge designs.

Marco.

bigmoog
29-06-2009, 16:27
just because deccas were used in decca unipivots doesnt make it any good, I have a london international and it makes the decca sound rubbish


my deccas like to see 47k:):)

Marco
29-06-2009, 16:45
I don't doubt it, Jonathan. I've never understood how that flimsy looking abomination could ever bring out the best in a Decca!

Marco.

hifi_dave
29-06-2009, 18:57
Nottingham Analogue arms were/are designed to be used with Decca cartridges. They are amongst the very few arms to be able to control and extract the best from Decca cartridges of any ilk and far from shaking themselves to bits, they make the Decca's sing.

Back in the early 80's we used to sell as many vintage Decca's as we could get our hands on - Dark Blue, Blue, Maroon, Grey and the (new) Super Gold, the vast majority went on Notts arms and we never had any trouble. No trouble that is except for the carts themselves, which weren't the most reliable I have encountered.

bigmoog
29-06-2009, 19:49
Nottingham Analogue arms were/are designed to be used with Decca cartridges. They are amongst the very few arms to be able to control and extract the best from Decca cartridges of any ilk and far from shaking themselves to bits, they make the Decca's sing.

Back in the early 80's we used to sell as many vintage Decca's as we could get our hands on - Dark Blue, Blue, Maroon, Grey and the (new) Super Gold, the vast majority went on Notts arms and we never had any trouble. No trouble that is except for the carts themselves, which weren't the most reliable I have encountered.


Im aware of this and indeed used a notts arm for a while......not brilliant imho


FYI, the zeta and mission mechanic were designed with deccas in mind:)

DSJR
29-06-2009, 20:30
BM, you needed someone to set the thing up properly (that's what Linn dealers always say when a client doesn't like their wares :lol:)

The Mission mechanic didn't get a good writup in 'Choice at the time, although I do understand the politics involved in *certain* reviewing back then. Jimmy loved his Zeta and his sample behaved faultlessly once the bearings were sorted early on. He played all sorts of carts in it to very good effect. I wonder what he plays his LP's on nowadays??????

I don't like to give this arm any publicity 'cos it's already shooting up in value, but the Alphason HR100S sounded absolutely bloody marvelous with a Decca Silver on board (with GB clamp IIRC). One of the few arms that truly did it justice IMO. The client had an undamped cueing device and wanted it stripped down and re-greased. The sound was so good I chickened out as I didn't want to disturb perfection IMO. I didn't charge for the callout (well, I couldn't) and put a few drops of Rega silicone cueing-device fluid/treacle on the top of the piston, hoping it would leech down in time...

Barry
29-06-2009, 22:51
just because deccas were used in decca unipivots doesnt make it any good, I have a london international and it makes the decca sound rubbish


my deccas like to see 47k:):)

Decca always maintained that head (cartridge) and arm should be designed together for optimum results.

The Decca London International arm (with the spirit bubble in the headshell) was a much inferior value-engineered version of the Decca ffss International arm (with the metal cartridge mounting platform). It was the latter version I had in mind.

47kOhm may the de facto load impedance for the great majority of fixed coil cartidges. The Deccas are, however, unlike any other cartridge and 47k is not necessarily the optimum value. It depends on the arm used; your Mission(?)-Decca combination may well like 47k.

Regards

John
30-06-2009, 04:20
The Decca London is a gret sounding Cart and works really well with the Terminator Its the most alive sound I have ever heard

bigmoog
30-06-2009, 06:50
Decca always maintained that head (cartridge) and arm should be designed together for optimum results.

The Decca London International arm (with the spirit bubble in the headshell) was a much inferior value-engineered version of the Decca ffss International arm (with the metal cartridge mounting platform). It was the latter version I had in mind.

47kOhm may the de facto load impedance for the great majority of fixed coil cartidges. The Deccas are, however, unlike any other cartridge and 47k is not necessarily the optimum value. It depends on the arm used; your Mission(?)-Decca combination may well like 47k.

Regards


I have been using deccas in various forms in numerous arms for more than 20 ears and nearly all have liked 47k...my current PH5 has variable loading and its nice to fiddle.....


I have used a decca uni and the London international arm and sorry both are hopeless at extracting a decca quality sound in my experience......I dislike unipivots, sorry...

DSJR
30-06-2009, 08:30
Some Decca's take off over 12KHz or so and I read somewhere that 33K may be a better loading for these. The sorted Microscanners etc may well be ok with 47K. Unless I'm mistaken, many mm's could do with a higher loading - either that, or a tweaked RIAA as many tend to sag in the treble regions.

BM, have you or anyone else ever used the pre-London models from the sixties? A re-tipped one of these should be very interesting.

bigmoog
30-06-2009, 08:43
Some Decca's take off over 12KHz or so and I read somewhere that 33K may be a better loading for these. The sorted Microscanners etc may well be ok with 47K. Unless I'm mistaken, many mm's could do with a higher loading - either that, or a tweaked RIAA as many tend to sag in the treble regions.

BM, have you or anyone else ever used the pre-London models from the sixties? A re-tipped one of these should be very interesting.


Dave, I have used a decca mark IV, which I think dated to 65 ish, it was knackered, so I dismantled it to have a look at the advanced assembly within;)

hifi_dave
30-06-2009, 08:52
Some Decca's take off over 12KHz or so and I read somewhere that 33K may be a better loading for these. The sorted Microscanners etc may well be ok with 47K. Unless I'm mistaken, many mm's could do with a higher loading - either that, or a tweaked RIAA as many tend to sag in the treble regions.

BM, have you or anyone else ever used the pre-London models from the sixties? A re-tipped one of these should be very interesting.

Used any ???

I still have a couple of FFSS types which were repaired and tweaked plus, of course, I have a selection of Dark Blues, Maroons, Golds etc etc and they all sing sweetly in Nottingham Analogue arms as you know. :lolsign:

DSJR
30-06-2009, 09:19
When I decide to grace you with my presence (:lol:), I expect to hear an oldie Decca instead of that ghastly boomy SPU you set up :D

hifi_dave
30-06-2009, 10:06
If you do ever make it, I think you will need to do a 'sleepover' because there is so much now for you to audition inc a variety of SPU's, an SL15, as many Decca's inc new models as your Tinnitus will tolerate and all the Harbeth's. Oh and a heap of vintage that I've acquired since your last Royal visit. :gig:




Great, I've been able to use that icon. :eyebrows:

RobHolt
30-06-2009, 19:08
Used any ???

I still have a couple of FFSS types which were repaired and tweaked plus, of course, I have a selection of Dark Blues, Maroons, Golds etc etc and they all sing sweetly in Nottingham Analogue arms as you know. :lolsign:

Nice collection Dave, and Mr Rance is a lucky chappy with his Microscanner :)

hifi_dave
30-06-2009, 19:38
Hi Rob,
That's only part of it. I can't stop myself spending money on E-Bay. I think I need to go to Hi-Fi nerd anonymous. Hello my name's Dave and I'm a hi-fi aholic !!!:doh:

RobHolt
30-06-2009, 19:59
Hi Rob,
That's only part of it. I can't stop myself spending money on E-Bay. I think I need to go to Hi-Fi nerd anonymous. Hello my name's Dave and I'm a hi-fi aholic !!!:doh:

Me too Dave.
I bought an old AT14S cartridge the other day and I've no idea why, or what to do with it.

hifi_dave
30-06-2009, 20:18
I've been buying equipment to replicate systems I have owned in the past plus buying items which I could never afford. Fortunately, I have space for all this kit and my demo room now looks like the Imhof catalogue. :lolsign:


PS. I've just notched up 100 posts but I can't find the bl**dy icons !!!

RobHolt
30-06-2009, 20:36
I understand exactly Dave. The stuff that graced the shop windows and magazines that I used to drool over. Sad in a way that much of this has little financial value these days, but I'm usually more excited at receiving some old cartridge in the post than spending say 3k on a new amp.

100 posts must deserve a fanfare - is there a hooter button here somewhere? :)

Barry
30-06-2009, 21:29
I have been using deccas in various forms in numerous arms for more than 20 ears and nearly all have liked 47k...my current PH5 has variable loading and its nice to fiddle.....


I have used a decca uni and the London international arm and sorry both are hopeless at extracting a decca quality sound in my experience......I dislike unipivots, sorry...

Hello Jonathan,

I too have been playing with Deccas for over twenty years, but have never actually tried one in a unipivot arm. (I do have one: an Audio and Design M9BA, later known as the Keith Monks arm but as it uses mercury contacts, it has not used for about thirty years for health and safety reasons.) I merely mentioned the use of unipivots as many people seem to have achieved satisfactory results using them: the Hadcock design in particular.

No need to apologise - this is not the War Room, we can fight in here :)

Regards

Barry
30-06-2009, 21:44
Some Decca's take off over 12KHz or so and I read somewhere that 33K may be a better loading for these. The sorted Microscanners etc may well be ok with 47K. Unless I'm mistaken, many mm's could do with a higher loading - either that, or a tweaked RIAA as many tend to sag in the treble regions.

BM, have you or anyone else ever used the pre-London models from the sixties? A re-tipped one of these should be very interesting.

My experience with Deccas is limited to three: two Blues, one retipped with a Weinz parabolic by the Garrott brothers, and a Gold.

I found that when fitted in a Syrinx LE1 arm, the cartridge was better loaded with a lower figure than 47K. We tried various loads from 15K upward. 33K seemed to be a good balance between taming the treble end and not compromising tracking. Lower figures affected the tracking ability, but then I suppose that should not be too much of a surprise; heavier loading of the generator is likely to cause greater electrodynamic damping. Deccas do however seem to be immune to any change in capacitance.

Whilst I never had any problems with the operation of Deccas, and on a good day they are the only cartridge which sounds exactly 'right', I was never able to get away from the 'edge of your seat' experience. So in that respect I never found I could relax with them. I am happier with moving coil designs and with my EMTs, Ortofons and Denon.

hifi_dave
30-06-2009, 22:40
Get a good Decca working properly and there's precious little else which can match it's speed, dynamics, resolving power and lack of colouration but you do need to get everything just right.

That KMAL arm of your's should do the job nicely if mounted on a solid turntable rather than a bouncey job. You ought to resurrect it from the 'elf and safety' closet. :scratch:

Barry
30-06-2009, 22:57
Get a good Decca working properly and there's precious little else which can match it's speed, dynamics, resolving power and lack of colouration but you do need to get everything just right.

That KMAL arm of your's should do the job nicely if mounted on a solid turntable rather than a bouncey job. You ought to resurrect it from the 'elf and safety' closet. :scratch:

Agreed - I really should give them another go; although I would need to cut a new arm board for the KMAL to mount it on my Thorens 124 deck.

As an aside, I have heard that someone is offering a rewiring service of these arms that by-passes the mercury contacts. Does anyone know any more about this?

Regards

bigmoog
01-07-2009, 07:14
I use my decca cartridges in a GB mount or a specially made heavy duty mount.....sometimes I use the red plastic nightmare mount.....the london sounds its best in the heavy duty mount....


right off for a bit, My Laim CD5i needs setting up:unfair:

hifi_dave
01-07-2009, 09:24
Sometimes the standard red plastic mounting bracket sounds better than a 'pod'. It depends on the arm. Some arms can't take being shaken around by the Decca. Your arm obviously can take the strain.

Barry,
Is that small amount of Mercury really a problem ? You won't be drinking it, inhaling it or even handling it, it just sits there doesn't it ? If it were me, I would just use it but if you're not man enought, I'll give you twenty quid for it right now. :smoking:

I would imagine that Audio Origami could do a rewire job on that beautiful arm of yours.

Barry
01-07-2009, 09:36
I use my decca cartridges in a GB mount or a specially made heavy duty mount.....sometimes I use the red plastic nightmare mount.....the london sounds its best in the heavy duty mount....


right off for a bit, My Laim CD5i needs setting up:unfair:

I employed the GB mount when I used the Decca Gold in an Infinity Black Widow arm.

When I used a Decca in the Mk I Decca ffss arm (not a unipivot, upgraded by Decca to 'Super' status and fitted with magnetic bias), I used the special adapter block that introduces a slight correction to the offset angle, as well as converting the three output connections of the cartridge to the four of the arm.

Again the Decca is unique in that it is the only cartridge that can sometimes benefit from a certain amount of decoupling from the arm.

Regards

bigmoog
01-07-2009, 09:44
I employed the GB mount when I used the Decca Gold in an Infinity Black Widow arm.

When I used a Decca in the Mk I Decca ffss arm (not a unipivot, upgraded by Decca to 'Super' status and fitted with magnetic bias), I used the special adapter block that introduces a slight correction to the offset angle, as well as converting the three output connections of the cartridge to the four of the arm.

Again the Decca is unique in that it is the only cartridge that can sometimes benefit from a certain amount of decoupling from the arm.

Regards


the GB mount is a clever device,shame it takes just a few turns of the screw to kill a decca dead....

the mount I use the most, nearly completely encloses the cartridge....

has anyone tried a london in a modern detachable headshell arm, such as the jelco etc?

Barry
01-07-2009, 09:52
Sometimes the standard red plastic mounting bracket sounds better than a 'pod'. It depends on the arm. Some arms can't take being shaken around by the Decca. Your arm obviously can take the strain.

Barry,
Is that small amount of Mercury really a problem ? You won't be drinking it, inhaling it or even handling it, it just sits there doesn't it ? If it were me, I would just use it but if you're not man enought, I'll give you twenty quid for it right now. :smoking:

I would imagine that Audio Origami could do a rewire job on that beautiful arm of yours.

Agree with you on the first point. Regarding the mercury, yes it is a small amount and no I won't be drinking it. The hazardous aspect of mercury is in breathing the vapour. Most cartridges, if not all, perform at their best at temperatures around 22 -25 degC. To this end, I often have a small lamp shining on the deck to raise the temperature locally. Increasing the temperature means the vapour pressure is also increased.

Yes, I know - I'm just being a wimp! However the ability to quickly change arm 'wands' on the KMAL (I have two) was very useful, as the counterweight could be preset for each cartridge. Resurrection of the Deccas could well be a project for the autumn. Will keep you posted.

Regards

bigmoog
01-07-2009, 10:00
very poor photos of the mount I use on one of my Londons


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/bigmoog/deccamount2lr.jpg


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/bigmoog/deccamountlr.jpg


and at the end of a discarded prototype arm project


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/bigmoog/GetAttachment2aspx.jpg


when I have time I will post better and newer photos

:)

Barry
01-07-2009, 10:10
the GB mount is a clever device,shame it takes just a few turns of the screw to kill a decca dead....

the mount I use the most, nearly completely encloses the cartridge....

has anyone tried a london in a modern detachable headshell arm, such as the jelco etc?

Yes, unless you are careful with the GB mount, the thin 'biscuit tin' housing of the Decca will become distorted, with possibly permenant and detrimental consequences.

That mounting block of yours looks the biz! Where did you get it from? I would be interested in one myself.

Regards

bigmoog
01-07-2009, 10:14
the big mount was made for me by Mick Gray (GB mount/Zeta/Mechanic designer)....not sure if he will accommodate another being machined up...I will ask:)

Barry
01-07-2009, 10:17
the big mount was made for me by Mick Gray (GB mount/Zeta/Mechanic designer)....not sure if he will accommodate another being machined up...I will ask:)

Thanks :)

DSJR
01-07-2009, 15:50
Agreed - I really should give them another go; although I would need to cut a new arm board for the KMAL to mount it on my Thorens 124 deck.

As an aside, I have heard that someone is offering a rewiring service of these arms that by-passes the mercury contacts. Does anyone know any more about this?

Regards

Only just seen these posts (I've been working :eek:)...

The KMAL is ok structurally and it shouldn't take much effort to direct wire it. The mercury baths and old contact pins could then hold some baby oil or similar to gently damp the pivot. I only ever heard one once and it was very good and FAR better made than the crummy old Hadcocks I had to glue back together at the time - the latter worked a treat with the Decca's though, it was just the dire construction and finish which doesn't seem hugely better today - the price is though...........;)

DSJR
01-07-2009, 15:59
P.S. Just got to the end... That mount looks excellent BM - just what these need I reckon.

I'm sure I have a 4-pin rear mount for mine somewhere, but I'll have to take the Bastin mount off again and I really don't want to, as disaster could strike at any time knowing me......

That Micro-Scanner of mine on the mentor "graphite" plater (used in all NAS from the "Heavy" Space to the Dias and beyond I think) was the closest to master-tape that I've EVER heard from vinyl. It's amazing how quickly one forgets, but hearing the Dias again last year (with ZYX) and the Stilton OC9 on me dear old Dual (:)) showed me the steep hill I have to climb with LP reproduction. Mind you, those old Spendorszzzzz actually have some life and sparkle to them and ALL formats sound better than ever :)

bigmoog
03-07-2009, 12:11
Thanks :)



I have spoken to Mick, and while he is extremely busy, he said he may be able to machine up a mount sometime in September......once I have it, I will forward on, we can discuss nearer the time


Incidentally Mick told me some very interesting insider stuff regarding Rega's upcoming P10 turntable set to retail circa 10K end of the year early next......its going to be quite a surprise apparently



regards

DSJR
03-07-2009, 17:09
Will there be anyone left to buy a thing at that price?

hifi_dave
03-07-2009, 18:22
FFS - They haven't settled on a design, let alone a price and it could be anything up to two years away. :doh:

bigmoog
03-07-2009, 21:05
FFS - They haven't settled on a design, let alone a price and it could be anything up to two years away. :doh:


speculation is healthy, I for one look forward to a Rega flagship TT, maybe it will inspire Ivor to do the same :eyebrows:

DSJR
03-07-2009, 21:29
Anything can happen in the next couple of years.........

WikiBoy
03-07-2009, 21:36
maybe it will inspire Ivor to do the same :eyebrows:

What come up with another bullshit marketing scheme, that is all he designs - not product - he hires people to do that.

DSJR
03-07-2009, 22:25
Are Linn really important today? All that now gets mentioned are the ever more expensive LP12 mods and yet more contradictions to what was deemed "correct thinking" twenty years ago - boron cantilevers, DC motors with a tacho of some strange sort, removing power-supplies to a separate box, building in the phono stage, ported speakers...

WikiBoy
03-07-2009, 22:38
There is no such thing as correct thinking, even though there are people always trying and stear you. Even here :eyebrows:

There is only - *your* music - *your* room - *your* system.

And the only thing that gave you those decisions - *your* ears.

The days of Ivor and his clones are over, thank goodness, apart from a few fools who will follow sheep like no matter what until their pockets are empty. Then he will forget about them.

PS - I am not a "senior member" I am a muppet - remember?

Marco
03-07-2009, 23:18
Do you wish your title to be customised, Richard? If so, tell me what you'd like and I'll arrange it :)

Marco.

WikiBoy
04-07-2009, 00:01
Once a muppet, always a muppet - that is a picture of me you know!

Marco
04-07-2009, 00:08
So is it 'Senior Muppet' or just 'Muppet'? :)

Marco.

chris@panteg
04-07-2009, 14:13
Are Linn really important today? All that now gets mentioned are the ever more expensive LP12 mods and yet more contradictions to what was deemed "correct thinking" twenty years ago - boron cantilevers, DC motors with a tacho of some strange sort, removing power-supplies to a separate box, building in the phono stage, ported speakers...

Hi Dave

What i think is important to me anyway

Is low cost or budget gear that can punch well above its weight VFM if you like , i think Mathew Bramble stated and its been said before ,

Designing cost no object no holds barred kit is one thing actually quite easy for the designer .

but to design gear that is on a tight budget and can give great performance is a real challenge and yet still be well made and look good too:scratch: almost impossible perhaps but there are some stuff about which is truly amazing.

thoughts anyone

Marco
04-07-2009, 15:36
Hi Chris, you're spot on.


...but to design gear that is on a tight budget and can give great performance is a real challenge and yet still be well made and look good too.


Looks are of course a personal consideration; however what you describe above is what I consider 'real hi-fi' is all about.

The fact is Linn don't make anything like this anymore.

It is precisely why I bang on about the Techy, DL-103, modified 'classic' CDPs and DACs, cost-effective high quality valve amps built by people who know what they're doing, and big, old, but extremely musically capable, loudspeakers - not just because *I* use them - this is not a willy-waving exercise - but because I genuinely and passionately feel that they represent exceptional examples of hi-fi equipment which offer high SPPV and thus guarantee long-term musical satisfaction, rather than the continual equipment merry-go-round (and obsesssion with 'badges') some people seem destined to be on forever.

I've said this many times before, but if only more people would have the gumption to think outside of the box, shun mainstream hi-fi and obvious 'safe' choices, and discover the true gems that out there if they could only look beyond the ends of their noses!!

Marco.

chris@panteg
04-07-2009, 16:25
Marco you are too be commended indeed especially for championing the techy , its important for anyone who views the comments on this forum regarding the SL1200 ,
is that you need to think of it in terms of what it could or can be (Timestep, p, hynes psu/ Jelco/SME etc) not what it is out of the box.

Sorry for going off topic folks

My only experience of the Decca was the stock Gold and very interesting it was too.

I listened to an Lp12/ittok/gold and found it a bit uncouth and rough 'lots of detail though ' but did not like it ' my pal John tried the same cart in his Voyd and described it as a very nasty combination.

But i then listened to a modded super gold in Doug Dunlop's System

Concordant Excelsior pre/Source /odyssey turntable and Modified Quad II's into Seventh veil system IV

It sounded superb with breathaking speed and attack and fine coherence , any body here who knew or remembered Doug ' (he was my favorite character in the Hifi business)
He had to play it ' one of his favorite's Tom jones what's new pussycat will raise a smile i am sure .

Marco i know you like and respect Glenn Croft's designs ' Doug was a friend of his back in the 80's i believe and was quite critical of his early efforts but he has certainly got it together now.

hifi_dave
04-07-2009, 16:49
Horses for courses. Decca's sound sh*te in an unsympathetic system - rough, hard, thin, bright etc and they mistrack like bu**ery but in the right system they sing and punch like no other.

Today I'm using a Super Gold London Decca in a Notts 12 inch Ace Anna on a Dais into the Croft Micro 25/Series 7 and it's breathtaking. No sign of any problems, just goof fun.:cool:

DSJR
04-07-2009, 19:18
To answer Chris's comments a few posts back, it is far more challenging to create a lower priced decent product. The thing is, I don't think Linn make world beating equipment at ANY price these days and the streaming DS's have faded from the forum scene it seems. The price issue is the main killer though, much of their range being twice the price I reckon it should be - IMO....

Marco
04-07-2009, 19:27
I completely agree, Dave (DSJR) :)

T'other Dave (what rotten fun having such a bloody common name, eh? :eyebrows:),


Decca's sound sh*te in an unsympathetic system - rough, hard, thin, bright etc and they mistrack like bu**ery but in the right system they sing and punch like no other.


Yep!

And so it is (exactly) with the DL-103.

Marco.

bigmoog
24-07-2009, 15:11
blurred photos (due to drunkeness) of my new decca mount from Mick Gray, machined from tool steel and titanium..........

in thee bag with tools:


http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/bigmoog/decca1.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/bigmoog/decca2.jpg


itself:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f78/bigmoog/decca3.jpg


will mount it asap and listen to music

I have another on the way......in a month or so:smoking:

DSJR
24-07-2009, 20:49
Oo-Er missus, that looks cool. Is it available at retail and how many hundreds is it if so?

It's been suggested I get the techie going with the Grace 707 and try the Decca in that. I have to say I'm terrified at the concept as I remember what the Linn Asak did to Grace arm bearings back in the day when I thought the Asak was a good cartridge - ahem..... My G707's still have reasonable bearings and may be worth a tenner or two...

bigmoog
24-07-2009, 20:57
dave, the mount is specially made to order, one at a time, sized, according to the specific uniqueness of each decca maroon, gold etc, as we know, no two deccas are quite the same. Retail cost would be circa 3500 quid due to the extreme rarity of thee rare and unusual metal which is only found 18,000 feet up mount fuji


according to flatpackers only a fettled dinn moussaka will beat a decca


(Mick also designed and built the GB mount when he worked at GB tools, and the zeta and mechanic......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz)

hifi_dave
24-07-2009, 21:12
DSJR, what have you got to lose. Just bung it in the Grace and see what happens. If it isn't a marriage made in Heaven you can always use the red plastic mount.

DSJR
24-07-2009, 21:13
What it is to have talented relativeszzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz :)

DSJR
24-07-2009, 21:15
DSJR, what have you got to lose. Just bung it in the Grace and see what happens. If it isn't a marriage made in Heaven you can always use the red plastic mount.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo :youtheman:

hifi_dave
24-07-2009, 21:22
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo :youtheman:

WIMP............:ner: