Icon Audio vs Tisbury

[mr sneff]

I'm thinking about trying a passive preamp with my Quad 303. Has anybody compared an Icon Audio Passive R preamp with the Tisbury passive preamp?

[pitadavespa]

I'm also interested in this.

Besides the price (which is hugely different) the different volume pot must make some difference in the sound.
That's all I can say, since I never hear any of them.

[mr sneff]

As far as I can see the only advantage of the Icon Audio pre is that it has a remote control. Whether that's worth over double the cost of the Tisbury is questionable, as are the extra inputs and tape in/out which I wouldn't use. As you say the volume pot will make a difference, the Icon uses an ALPS Blue velvet volume pot, whereas the Tisbury uses a stepped attenuator. From what I've read an attenuator is 'better', but I was really asking whether anybody had actually had heard both and formed an opinion on their relative merits SQ wise.

[Audioman]

As far as I can see the only advantage of the Icon Audio pre is that it has a remote control. Whether that's worth over double the cost of the Tisbury is questionable, as are the extra inputs and tape in/out which I wouldn't use. As you say the volume pot will make a difference, the Icon uses an ALPS Blue velvet volume pot, whereas the Tisbury uses a stepped attenuator. From what I've read an attenuator is 'better', but I was really asking whether anybody had actually had heard both and formed an opinion on their relative merits SQ wise.

I think it depends which stepped attenuator they use. The extra cost of stepped attenuators on the NVA passives is near the price of the Tisbury so it may use a cheap and inferior brand. (remember NVA are genuine direct from manufacturer prices).

Paul.

[mr sneff]

I think it depends which stepped attenuator they use. The extra cost of stepped attenuators on the NVA passives is near the price of the Tisbury so it may use a cheap and inferior brand. (remember NVA are genuine direct from manufacturer prices).

Paul.

I think the Tisbury is direct from the manufacturer too.

[Audioman]

I think the Tisbury is direct from the manufacturer too.

Precisely so given the owner of NVA doesn't overcharge this would suggest that higher quality components are inside. Why not buy a Tisbury and NVA and return the one you least like under the 30 day money back guarantee?

Paul.

[synsei]

It's a shame you are so far away from me David otherwise I would have invited you to come listen to my BTE passive ;)

[mr sneff]

Precisely so given the owner of NVA doesn't overcharge this would suggest that higher quality components are inside. Why not buy a Tisbury and NVA and return the one you least like under the 30 day money back guarantee?

Paul.

Cost is the main issue, Paul, the NVA is 2-3X the cost of the Tisbury depending on the model. When you take into account the extra number of inputs, tape loop and 3 sets of outputs (which I don't need) on the NVA to some extent I'd be paying for facilities I don't need. And who knows what the relative mark up/profit margin of the 2 companies are?

[Audioman]

Cost is the main issue, Paul, the NVA is 2-3X the cost of the Tisbury depending on the model. When you take into account the extra number of inputs, tape loop and 3 sets of outputs (which I don't need) on the NVA to some extent I'd be paying for facilities I don't need. And who knows what the relative mark up/profit margin of the 2 companies are?

If you join a certain forum connected to NVA you can ask for a free trial of the basic NVA passive. Borrow Jerry's Tisbury and you can do a free comparison and determine if the extra cost is reflected in terms of SQ.

Paul.

[jandl100]

If the cost difference is important, you can buy the Tisbury with confidence, imho - it really is a fine sounding passive pre in its own right regardless of comparisons.

But then Dave (synsei) likes his BTE passive at a similar price to the Tis, a bit cheaper I think, so that seems like a good call as well.

[synsei]

If the cost difference is important, you can buy the Tisbury with confidence, imho - it really is a fine sounding passive pre in its own right regardless of comparisons.

But then Dave (synsei) likes his BTE passive at a similar price to the Tis, a bit cheaper I think, so that seems like a good call as well.

Indeed it is Jerry. I took a bit of a leap of faith with the BTE but it paid off, My findings are that the BTE sounds a little more open and offers better bottom end performance in my system. Another factor which sealed it for me is that the Tisbury is tiny and some of my IC's are rather inflexible therefore the tail tended to wag the dog which I found a tad frustrating. Putting all that aside though, I would be more than comfortable owning a Tizzie if it were not for what I have now ;)

[Macca]

I've had the Tisbury for a few weeks and now have NVA P90SA. The differences are quite marked and more than compensate for the additional cost of the NVA. The main difference in cost are the stepped attenuators and the silver wiring on the NVA. A few extra sockets is buttons by comparison.

[mr sneff]

Hi Martin, what differences have you noticed?

[Yomanze]

I've had the Tisbury for a few weeks and now have NVA P90SA. The differences are quite marked and more than compensate for the additional cost of the NVA. The main difference in cost are the stepped attenuators and the silver wiring on the NVA. A few extra sockets is buttons by comparison.

Cool, have just gone for a P90sa myself so I can try biamping my 2x LFD power amps. :)

[Macca]

The chief differences would be better bass quality, more impact from percussion, sweeter and more detailed top end. Also with the SA version it is easy to set volume exactly where you want it. With the Tisbury I had to be like a safe cracker trying to get that point between too quiet and too loud. it is quite a bit more money than the Tisbury or the BTE (which I have not tried) but if you are prepared and able to spend the extra I would highly recommend it. The lack of grain and glare in the sound is stunning.

[Yomanze]

Lack of grain and glare, definitely two things that I highly value thanks for the interesting comments even more excited now...

[wee tee cee]

I have ordered a BTE with twin blue alps mono pots and silver wiring. When I get my mits on it and some hours under its belt I will write up my impressions in comparison to the tizzie with its stepped attenuator. I don't have any issues with the volume on the tizzie mine sits at 12 o clock and a couple of clicks either side lets me set it for loudness war CDs against golden oldies.

[nat8808]

What's inside the Tisbury?

Oh, just googled and it's an SMD stepped attenuator.

More googling looks like you can get the same attenuator via ebay for $15.50 with apparently free international shipping! http://www.ebay.com/itm/DACT-Type-SMD-Stepped-Attenuator-21-step-Free-ship-/190844814249

DIY DIY DIY !

[roob]

There is an Icon passive pre for sale on PFM for £215.
What about this baby?
http://www.angleaudio.co.uk/Single-input-LDR-passive-preamp_11.asp
I think Peter Stockwell has one and rates it highly.

[Macca]

I have ordered a BTE with twin blue alps mono pots and silver wiring. When I get my mits on it and some hours under its belt I will write up my impressions in comparison to the tizzie with its stepped attenuator. I don't have any issues with the volume on the tizzie mine sits at 12 o clock and a couple of clicks either side lets me set it for loudness war CDs against golden oldies.

The gain issue will be system dependant - output voltage of the digital source, input sensitivity of the power amp and the sensitivity of the loudspeakers are all factors. I have always had gain issue with separate pre-amps regardless of active/passive and regardless of which power amp I use. I have had the same issue with some integrated amps (although not with the XTZ integrated) so please do not take my comments as referring specifically to the Tisbury. I bought my NVA P90 used and it had after-market 3rd party stepped attenuators fitted but I still had the gain issue. Once it was upgraded to the highest quality stepped attenuators as recommended by NVA the problem was solved.

Now I could almost have lived with the Tisbury since the step up in clarity over an active pre was significant but in my system there was simply an obvious lack of bass drive and impact that I could not ignore no matter how hard I tried. When I say impact as an example snares that are recorded to 'hit you between the eyes' just didn't - some may prefer that and some may not even notice depending on the sort of music they play. Again, that may well be system dependant. There is no real alternative to 'suck it and see' when it comes to these things so a home trial with the option to return if not satisfied is mandatory IMO. Either that or borrow one for a week or so from a helpful member. Either way I would suggest giving passive a go if you have not already tried it, you may find it to be a revelation.

[jandl100]

My Tisbury pre will be available again for loan in a few days - anyone interested? :)

I suspect the bass issue that Martin macca mentions is indeed system dependent - there's no lack of bass slam / control / definition in my system, quite the opposite in fact, it's really very impressive!

[Audioman]

Jerry. The lack of bass Martin mentions is likely due to impedance matching between source and power amplifiers. From experience using a buffer stage between passive and power amp cured the problem (and others) in my case. So depends on power amp input impedance. The lack of grain is likely due to the quality of attenuator NVA use. This probably accounts for most of the price difference.

[Macca]

Jerry. The lack of bass Martin mentions is likely due to impedance matching between source and power amplifiers. From experience using a buffer stage between passive and power amp cured the problem (and others) in my case. So depends on power amp input impedance. The lack of grain is likely due to the quality of attenuator NVA use. This probably accounts for most of the price difference.

No, the lack of grain (and glare) was noticeable with the Tisbury and with the original P90 so I think this is certainly a function of removing the unnecessary additional gain stage of an active pre and not specifically down to the attenuators, although that is not to say that the high quality attenuators do not also improve the sound. The overall effect is that it sounds like you are listening to the recording straight from the desk without all the interim stages (the CD, the CD player, the amplification) getting in the way. Great if that is the sound you are after but no doubt it won't suit everyone.

I was listening to some Sam & Dave last night, and let's face it although these may be classic Stax recordings they are old, dated and pretty basic; but man, I was right there in the studio. 'Hold on, I'm Coming' sounded so good it actually did something physical to me - not sure exactly what but it was something I have not felt since I was a teenager. Bloody brilliant!

[mr sneff]

Just successfully bid for a Tisbury on eBay :) will report back in due course.

[Dauntless]

I was listening to some Sam & Dave last night, and let's face it although these may be classic Stax recordings they are old, dated and pretty basic; but man, I was right there in the studio. 'Hold on, I'm Coming' sounded so good it actually did something physical to me - not sure exactly what but it was something I have not felt since I was a teenager. Bloody brilliant![/QUOTE]
Memories Martin, memories!

[tpbholm]

Have you considered the Custom Hifi Co's PP10? It's built to order with the number of in / outs specified by you. It also uses the ALPS blue volume pot. Basic price with 1 in/out is £75. Additional connections are £15. Sean at Custom Hifi Co. offers a 30 day trial period. He's also developing a remote control version. Build quality is excellent and it sounds great in my analogue system with a Linn Sondek, Temple Audio Monoblocks and a Graham Slee Reflex M phono stage. Speakers are Opus3 Credo.

[hifinutt]

Jerry. The lack of bass Martin mentions is likely due to impedance matching between source and power amplifiers. From experience using a buffer stage between passive and power amp cured the problem (and others) in my case. So depends on power amp input impedance. The lack of grain is likely due to the quality of attenuator NVA use. This probably accounts for most of the price difference.

well I am having to use the tisbury as my vibe is sold sadly but as mentioned I find it weak with my power amp [msb s200]
it does not have the snap and dynamics I would like
could I use one of these with it to improve it ?

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/burson-audio-ab-160-rca-audio-buffer-stage-playback-44/

[Yomanze]

IMHO I don't see the point in using a buffer and passive pre as it goes against the spirit of a passive. May as well go active...

[worrasf]

I'm thinking about trying a passive preamp with my Quad 303. Has anybody compared an Icon Audio Passive R preamp with the Tisbury passive preamp?

I briefly used an Icon Audio passive pre with both my Croft S4s and Quad 303 (fully upgraded by NetAudio). It worked fine but just didn't float my boat in terms of musical pleasure. At the time I had a Croft Vitale and this "worked" better with the S4s and to my ears the fully NetAudio modded 33 sounded better with the 303. So long story short while I have not heard a Tisbury the passive preamp approach was not to my liking in my systems.

[hifinutt]

IMHO I don't see the point in using a buffer and passive pre as it goes against the spirit of a passive. May as well go active...

yes quite right but I just happen to have a tizzie in situ

[nat8808]

IMHO I don't see the point in using a buffer and passive pre as it goes against the spirit of a passive. May as well go active...

Spirit maybe, but how about sonics? Active is a whole encompasing world of all sorts of amp circuits from minimal to crazy numbers of transistors or valves. Combinations of buffers with passives still implies minimalism.

Many DIYers seem to prefer sonics of buffer->passive->buffer to keep constant impedence.

[Kneesup]

Matter of interest, I visited Steve at hi Fi Hangar in Borden near Guildford a couple of days ago and he's about to start selling his passive pre at a little over £100. A beautifully made thing with a stepped attenuator. Super quality and it worked a treat with his big valve mono blocks into Harbeths with a Sony cd on the front end. Worth checking out if you're looking at Tisburys. But one input only.

[hifinutt]

yes , worth looking at . I am using the tisbury at the moment and its not bad at all, very enjoyable. tremendous bargain at the price

[jandl100]

Just successfully bid for a Tisbury on eBay :) will report back in due course.

I'll do my Andy / Tarzan impression ..... :popcorn:

:)