B&W DM-70.

[agk]

I may have located a pair of these and wonder if anyone has useful input on them.
I'm curious about what sort of price/value they may have as well as potential faults.

[orbscure]

Just in case you haven't seen this:

http://www.mats-enterprise.co.uk/dm70page ;)

[istari_knight]

Yum.

... That is all.

[agk]

Yup, seems to be about the most informative of the very few sites that mention these beauties, ta.

Fingers, toes and everything else crossed that if they are these and I can buy them they aren't facked.

[jandl100]

A decent looking pair recently sold on ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-DM70-Vintage-ElectroStatic-Speakers-1972-/181340124524?pt=UK_AudioVideoElectronics_HomeAudio HiFi_HiFiSpeakers&hash=item2a38b6b56c&nma=true&si=NBIg7cFr%252B1GLf2Q44%252F2RIq0c%252BmY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[The Barbarian]

Nice Jerry {Well not looks wise} always will prefer the standard UK version over those Continentals.

[istari_knight]

Nice Jerry {Well not looks wise} always will prefer the standard UK version over those Continentals.

Initially I disagreed but after seeing them together you're right.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/eliot/Autumn-05/schopper14.jpg

btw, pair of Castle Conway II for sale down the road from me, seller wants £100 for them... Very tempting :eyebrows:

[istari_knight]

Never ever liked der 'Conway MkII

Aye, but unless I move to Yorkshire I'll never get to try some Howard I's... I don't think any left the county :lol:

[agk]

We won't be fighting over them then, I prefer the later version, the Continental. Just so cool looking man while the others have the look of a Sandwich on its side and while I'd love another pair of sarnies they aint my idea of stylish.

[istari_knight]

The continental's look pretty smart in white.

[agk]

Just gained an idea of how much these things go for and while I'm not surprised I am thinking they may be a tad too rich for my blood.
Back to monitoring the bins for some Japanese bargain.
Mind you, I don't know that the guy who has them knows what he's got and I'm not about to let on.

[mjkelshaw]

I had two pairs of 'Standard' DM70's and later a pair of 'Continentals' which were labelled as 'Sony SS-GB'. I mistakenly sold the first pair in the mid 70's and then later acquired a second pair which were early versions. Later I bought the pair of SS-GB's, originally advertised in Hi Fi News as 'Continentals' - which they were, but manufactured for Sony by Bowers & Wilkins.
Both pairs survived intact when I emigrated to Calgary and later being transported from Calgary to Saskatoon when I moved there. However both pairs were damaged when I finally decided to return to England and they were transported to Toronto before being allegedly 'export packed' and shipped to the U.K.
I only found the damage when they were unpacked after I 'settled' in Holland in '91. The 'roll surrounds of the bass units in the 'Continentals' had disintegrated, but the bass units in the 'standard' pair didn't appear to have deteriorated at all, as they had a different type of 'roll surround'
Much later I disposed of both pairs by transporting them down to the local 're-cycling centre' when I was under pressure to create some 'space'.
To this day I regret ever selling the first pair which I had purchased second hand but virtually unused from a gentleman who's wife thought that they were too big. I purchased them without a demonstration as they were obviously almost new and in their original boxes.
I can still remember my delight when I got them home and connected them up to my Thorens 124 / Quad 33 / 303 and listened to them for the first time. I found them an outstanding speaker with the clarity of a '57 but with more bass. With my 20-20 hindsight I wish I had 'hung on' to my original pair, the later ones were more 'used' and never quite as satisfying.

Regards

Mike Kelshaw

[istari_knight]

"TD124/33/303/DM70"

What a beautiful system that must have been Mike :thumbsup:

[agk]

Ah the things I've parted with and regret, the two that come easily to mind are a Sansui AU-919 and a pair of Leak 3090's.

[mjkelshaw]

Yes it sounded wonderful to me, even Martin Hannett was impressed - at the time he had an account with Quad and had provided me with the new 303 at a slight 'discount'.
I only sold my Quad 33 /303 / FM 3 /AM 3 units a couple of years ago - when I thought I was about to 'retire' to China - but that's another story - Doh!!!!

Regards

Mike Kelshaw

[The Barbarian]

The Grass is never Greener on the other side.

[Marco]

...especially when your arse is black.

Marco.

[nat8808]

Don't give up on finding a pair.

I've seen some as good as that £800 pair sell for £300. A good pair for restoration could go for £250. Yet then again I once saw a pair of Standards go for £1000 in the past. All depends if people claim they will ship them abroad (stupidly heavy). I've seen many pairs in the £2-300 region.

The first problem will be the bass foams having rotted (I've seen correct matching foams available, perhaps from Shackmann?). There's possibility of saggy membranes just like any electrostatic and then the high tension part should get a service. Essentially they're not as problematic as Quad esls probably due to the smaller electrostatic panel so less power needed. Beware ones where the bass drivers have been swapped out for new drivers because they didn't know the foams were available - hit and miss results.

[jandl100]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v53/eliot/Autumn-05/schopper14.jpg


Ooo - yuk, the old fashioned 'radiogram look'. I hate that! Give me the smooth curves of the Continental lass every time! :drool:

[nat8808]

Although unseen, the continentals have unique curved driver baskets which is nice. Unique for any speaker I've ever heard of anyway.

[nat8808]

The Grass is never Greener on the other side.

That's the whole upgrade industry doomed ..

[nat8808]

Wasn't too long ago that someone on Wam had difficulty selling a pair with purple car paint finish for about £350 or may have ended up taking offers.

[mjkelshaw]

Ooo - yuk, the old fashioned 'radiogram look'. I hate that! Give me the smooth curves of the Continental lass every time! :drool:

The Continentals were more 'domestically acceptable' being smaller . However the veneer on the 'standard' DM70's had less tendency to part company with the carcass whereas the the top edges of the curved front panel of the Continents were very susceptible to cracking and shedding pieces of the veneer. The pair that recently sold on e-bay had similar damage to the veneer.
Perhaps stripping the veneer off and re-finishing with painted surface would be a better long term solution where the veneer is badly chipped or missing. It would also mean that one would have a wider colour choice, I think the Continentals were only originally offered with a choice of Teak veneer or a 'White' finish. I shall have to look for the handbooks.
The Continentals I owned could also be switched between European and American mains voltage. When I left for Canada, I purchased a pair of American spec. transformers from B & W with the intention of substituting them once I had 'settled', but as I never actually unpacked the 'Standard' ones they were never used, and I re-discovered them when I was 'packing' to move house last year. I also have a complete 'power pack' in my garage which I had forgotten I had removed from one of my speakers.

Regards

Mike Kelshaw

[Barry]

I've always prefered the look of the 'Radiogram' DM-70s to those having the 'Continental' styling. Apart from the styling, I also liked the idea of the non-captive mains lead and the use of a 2-pin Bulgin connector for the speaker audio connection.

However 'Continental' or not, both versions suffered the usual problems of trying to integrate the dipole nature of the electrostatic tweeter with the monopole (cardoid) polar pattern of the bass unit.

[The Barbarian]

I've always prefered the look of the 'Radiogram' DM-70s to those having the 'Continental' styling.



:thumbsup:

Trouble with people is that Modern styling always takes preference.. ''o god that looks old fashioned, lookslike a radiogram'' type of mentality.. However i guess it works both ways where i would turn my nose up regarding modern styling.

[Marco]

Depends on your sensibilities and tastes in aesthetics, dude...

I'm with you though on the looks of the 'radiogram' ones being best. Very rarely is the original of anything, which was fundamentally 'sorted' to start with, genuinely improved upon.


The Continentals were more 'domestically acceptable' being smaller...

"Domestically acceptable" for whom - some manipulative and controlling, image-obsessed BWFH? Only pant-wetting weeny-boys worry about such guff!!! ;)

Marco.

[mjkelshaw]

"Domestically acceptable" for whom - some manipulative and controlling, image-obsessed BWFH? Only pant-wetting weeny-boys worry about such guff!!! ;)

Marco.

I intended the term 'domestically acceptable' to indicate that the 'Continental' being smaller would more easily fit into the sort of 'small' house that sadly appears to be the 'norm' these days.
My first pair of 'Standard' DM-70's resided in a house built in the early part of the of 20th century, which had high ceilings and proportionally much larger rooms, and in which there was probaly enough timber in the doors, skirtings & panelling to construct a whole 'estate' of moderm 'dwellings'.
With regard to anything being acceptable in 'taste or stye' - I wouldn't care to comment - that's entirely a personal and very subjective judgement.

Regards

Mike Kelshaw

[istari_knight]

When it comes down to it I would be happy to own either ! :D

[Marco]

I intended the term 'domestically acceptable' to indicate that the 'Continental' being smaller would more easily fit into the sort of 'small' house that sadly appears to be the 'norm' these days.
My first pair of 'Standard' DM-70's resided in a house built in the early part of the of 20th century, which had high ceilings and proportionally much larger rooms, and in which there was probaly enough timber in the doors, skirtings & panelling to construct a whole 'estate' of moderm 'dwellings'.
With regard to anything being acceptable in 'taste or stye' - I wouldn't care to comment - that's entirely a personal and very subjective judgement.


No worries, Mike. Thanks for the clarification, although you needn't have worried, as my post was very much tongue-in-cheek :)

Like you say, "modern dwellings" are part of the problem. Thankfully I don't live in one, and indeed have no intention of ever doing so! ;)

Marco.

[agk]

The dude who may have a lead on these is not of the hurrying nature so I shall wait and see.

With my Sony fetish and the need to complete my lineup I shall keep my eye out for the SS-GB variant now.

[SPS]

I've always prefered the look of the 'Radiogram' DM-70s to those having the 'Continental' styling. Apart from the styling, I also liked the idea of the non-captive mains lead and the use of a 2-pin Bulgin connector for the speaker audio connection.

However 'Continental' or not, both versions suffered the usual problems of trying to integrate the dipole nature of the electrostatic tweeter with the monopole (cardoid) polar pattern of the bass unit.

I was offered a pair of these about 15 years ago, i had the pleasure of a good demo session, but i could not have lived with the sound, as you say there was such ( too much of) a difference between the bass and upper registers.

[nat8808]

They originally came with a removable padding which fitted behind the electostatic panel - perhaps this was supposed to solve that problem but normally was lost?

[agk]

Sounds like it to me. Probably disintegrated like the foam on 3090 tweeters did. I can't see anyone releasing a speaker that sounds as bad as that. I also don't see Sony buying into it if it sounded that bad and then you have the majority of reviews saying they sounded great.

[nat8808]

They are/were heavy duty cloth things filled with something and almost quilted in construction (I guess to lend themselves to a curve) - a bit like some kind of draft excluder fire protection.