View Full Version : Newbie Looking for SUT Advice
This is my first post (well, my second if you include my initial "welcome" post) and I'm anxious to interact with this group and acquire additional knowledge about milking my system to its' full potential. As info, I'm currently looking to replace my SUT (Ikeda 100-SD) with something a bit more transparent and extended. My primary listening is vinyl and my system is comprised of the following:
Amps - Air Tight ATM2's mono'ed
Preamp - Air Tight ATC-2
Phonostage - Air Tight ATE-2
SUT - Ikeda 100-SD
Turntable - SOTA Star Sapphire
Arm - Graham 1.5T
Cartridges - Koetsu - Onyx Diamond Platinum, Rosewood Signature
Speakers - Chario Academy III's
Cables - primarily Acrotec 8n's, but have just made up some of my own 28 gauge silver IC's that are proving to be very special.
As you can see from the above, I'm a big fan of my Air Tight equipment and am considering their ATH-2 Reference SUT. Does anyone on this forum have any first-hand experience with it? If so, I'd appreciate some feedback.
Regards,
Kyle
Still looking for some SUT advise...
Whoa, stunning system, Kyle! More pictures in the Gallery, please ...
I am not familiar with the Ikeda SUT, so I am not sure if the following will be helpful, or whether any would constitute a significant 'upgrade', as your system is at a very high level already. So, in addition to the Air Tight, I have a couple of suggestions that maybe worth auditioning. I was thinking that maybe a Kondo S6 might be perfect for you (the one with the adjustable taps, as opposed to the UK AN ones, which have to be ordered with correct impedance matching for your cartridge). Another option would be the 'Hommage' version of the Auditorium23 (distributed by Shindo dealers in N America, I think). Both of these are absolutely top-notch.
chris@panteg
19-03-2014, 07:39
I'm afraid I don't have enough experience or knowledge of high end sut's, but you may have answered your own question? Go for the Air Tight sut or perhaps speak to Audionote?
Lovely looking system.
Hi Kyle,
Welcome to AoS! :)
That's a superb system you've got there. Like Peter says, please lets have some more photos of it in The Gallery!
As for SUTs, a system like yours demands something special, such as the Allnic AUT-2000, shown here: http://hammertoneaudio.com/Product/Allnic%20AUT%202000/Allnic%20AUT%202000 which is probably about the best standalone SUT I've heard. It's very open-sounding, dynamic and infectiously musical.
Also, Audio-Note do some superb SUTs, where the sky is the limit, if you want solid-silver wired transformers, etc. They can be hugely expensive, but sound wonderful.
Another one to consider is the Silvercore MC Pro, shown here: http://oswaldsmillaudio.com/mc_pro which is a superb design, totally hand-built using the finest materials, and offers a fully balanced connection. If you can take advantage of that then the results should be stunning. I've used its little brother, the Silvercore MC, in my system and it was superb! The Silvercore units are veritable 'giant-killers', which outperform many much more expensive designs. The MC Pro is just about as good at it gets, but doesn't cost the same as a sports car! ;)
Since you run Koetsus, you may also like to consider their own matching transformer for your cartridges, shown here: http://www.koetsusea.com/The-Koetsu-Step-Up-Transformer.php I haven't heard one of those, but the synergy should be good with your Onyx Diamond Platinum or Rosewood Signature, as the SUT will have been 'voiced' to match Koetsu cartridges.
Lastly, but not leastly, you may find this article of interest, from our very own Chris - a long-time Koestu user: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?2907-Step-Up-to-the-Plate-Bent-Audio-Mu
Hope this helps, and good luck! :cool:
Marco.
Very Nice room/set-up.
:thumbsup:
Ammonite Audio
19-03-2014, 09:43
I can't comment specifically on the Ikeda or Air Tight SUTs, but I can offer some practical advice, based on my own experiences (mistakes). You need to try these things in your system for long enough to form a conclusion - at this level dealers should let you do this. Do not be tempted to sell on your existing SUT before you are sure it's been eclipsed by another - I regret deeply selling my little Bob's Devices SUT for an (unheard) Ortofon which turned out to be a poor performer in my system (even with an Ortofon MC cartridge). That was a basic mistake.
anubisgrau
19-03-2014, 10:08
I can't comment specifically on the Ikeda or Air Tight SUTs, but I can offer some practical advice, based on my own experiences (mistakes). You need to try these things in your system for long enough to form a conclusion - at this level dealers should let you do this. Do not be tempted to sell on your existing SUT before you are sure it's been eclipsed by another - I regret deeply selling my little Bob's Devices SUT for an (unheard) Ortofon which turned out to be a poor performer in my system (even with an Ortofon MC cartridge). That was a basic mistake.
I was just about to say this. A SUT game is practically trial & error and the score can not be predicted in advance without testing a particular component in your setup. A price range can be a kind of a guideline about a SQ level but a final matching and synergy is something that only you can decide upon.
One way would be to borrow from a dealer, another to buy used and sell if unhappy.
Last but not least, I would for starters stay away from costly products voiced for a particular line of products like Kondo, AN, Shindo, A23 and Koetsu.
Silvercore is a good call as well as anything Hashimoto based. Also higher echalons of permalloy Lundahls (Ag - if you can reach that). Possibly the best would be something Dave Slagle (Intact Audio) would custom wound for your pickup. I would start from there.
chris@panteg
19-03-2014, 10:49
I can't comment specifically on the Ikeda or Air Tight SUTs, but I can offer some practical advice, based on my own experiences (mistakes). You need to try these things in your system for long enough to form a conclusion - at this level dealers should let you do this. Do not be tempted to sell on your existing SUT before you are sure it's been eclipsed by another - I regret deeply selling my little Bob's Devices SUT for an (unheard) Ortofon which turned out to be a poor performer in my system (even with an Ortofon MC cartridge). That was a basic mistake.
Quite right !
I've spent some time listening to the Puresound T10 ,and am now happy to say its a permanent feature in my system , delighted with it .
All - thanks much for the input. I reviewed Chris' excellent write up on SUT's and am wondering if the Bent Audio Mu is still commercially available. I've heard other good things about this unit but have not been able to find a purchase source. Can someone point me in a direction?
Kyle
anubisgrau
19-03-2014, 15:19
All - thanks much for the input. I reviewed Chris' excellent write up on SUT's and am wondering if the Bent Audio Mu is still commercially available. I've heard other good things about this unit but have not been able to find a purchase source. Can someone point me in a direction?
Kyle
han, afaik these ain't commercially available anymore. you should either get in touch with S&B who manufactures bare transformers (TX103 - you'll need to case them and take care of shielding) or emporiumhifi who sells a stripped down but ready to use version (with 1 primary instead of 3 on TX103) - or me who has a hardly used emporiumhifi one 1:10 for sale at a good price. sorry about a blatant abuse of the thread:)
Music First are the commercially wrapped version of the S&B transformers. They also made what went in the Bent cased step ups.
http://www.mfaudio.co.uk/mcstepup.htm
Useful info there, Nick :)
Kyle, here's an article that you also might find interesting: http://www.high-endaudio.com/RC-Step-ups.html
Marco.
anubisgrau
19-03-2014, 22:47
Music First are the commercially wrapped version of the S&B transformers. They also made what went in the Bent cased step ups.
http://www.mfaudio.co.uk/mcstepup.htm
1700 pounds, no shit?!
The Grand Wazoo
19-03-2014, 23:10
1700 pounds, no shit?!
S&B were about to go into a partnership with Bent Audio and the first product was to be a passive pre-amp. But they parted ways because S&B wanted to use a dealership network, along with which comes higher prices to customers, whereas John Chapman prefers the direct selling route to market. At which point, the supply of units to Bent ceased, apart from the ones I have: a delayed order which S&B, after several months, eventually honoured. Mine were the last pair of S&B 103 Mu SUTs that John put together.
And I paid a bloody sight less than £1,700 for them, despite the raw transformers being sent to Canada, cased, wired up and sent back to the UK!
John tried to source some alternative units and it looked as though there would be replacement model for a while, but that kind of fizzled out.
anubisgrau
19-03-2014, 23:17
i would be really curious re sound differences between S&B TX103 and emporiumhifi S&B OEM-ed SUTs, of course compared via similar primaries. sizewise they look the same. i guess they would only differ for a flexibility of step up ratios.... if this is the case, it's not enough to justify the price difference.
1700 pounds, no shit?!
+ VAT :D
All,
I'm very appreciative of the advice. It's sad that the "unit of choice" - the Bent Audio Silver, is no longer a commercially available option. Sucks! Are we dinosaurs or what? My Ideda bit the dust last night so I am without for the present time. I have a Airtight ATH-2 Reference in route to me now for evaluation; so I'll let you know what I think. Regardless, when it comes to SUT and proper matching with your other /upstream/downstream equipment, my head's abuzz. Options are limited and home trial evaluations are even more so. So be it! I'll let you know where I land.
KO
Get a custom transformer wound to your specific cartridge from Electra-Print.
Options are limited and home trial evaluations are even more so. So be it! I'll let you know where I land.
Please do, Kyle. Don't rule out the Silvercore! Trust me, it is very good indeed. However, I'm sure that whichever SUT you end up with will be excellent :)
Marco.
Great looking setup! Would love to hear some AirTight in a home environment some day.
But please, you really need to support your precious software better! Even if your Sota has a clamp, your records WILL become warped!
All the best
Mike
Mike - help me here... what about having my records stored, book-like, will cause them to warp?? And my SOTA does have a clamp and vacuum hold-down.
Kyle
As an update, (for those who may be interested), as I have been patiently awaiting the arrival of the Airtight ATH-2 Reference SUT, I've been playing around with some DIY cable projects. After much research (online and through the excellent Supercables Cookbook), I decided to makeup some of Chris VanHaus' Silver Interconnects (recipe available online and maybe through the VH Audio Website as well). Well, they weren't easy, but after 2 weekends I finally finished them Sunday afternoon. I ended up making a DIN to RCA from my tonearm to my SUT, a 3/4 meter section to run from my SUT to my Airtight phono stage, and the final 1/2 meter section to run from my phono stage to my Airtight line stage. And the results..... Stunning! These replaced some expensive custom built cables that I had a guy makeup for me several years ago (tonearm to SUT and SUT to phono stage) and a pair of 8-9's Accrotec cables from my phono to pre. Not necessarily chopped liver. Regardless, the improvement that I was able to get in transparency, frequency extension at both ends, and imaging absolutely floored me. The only problem I have, and I had this with my other cables as well, is a slight low frequency hum/buzz that I need to isolate and figure out how/if I can eliminate it. As info, I did not shield any of the interconnects for fear the shielding would have an adverse effect on transparency and the upper frequencies (or so I have read). I did properly ground them (I think) and I'll be going through a systematic check to see if I can't isolate and fix the problem; if I can't, I can live with it.
I'm hoping to receive the Airtight SUT this week; so I'll provide impressions once I've had a chance to receive and evaluate it.
Kyle
Hi Kyle
My point was, that the records need more support, they're leaning too much IME
Anyways, great system!
Atb Mike
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