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DaveK
24-06-2009, 19:29
Hi,
In commom with my current provocative theme for posts I offer the following for your consideration and comment. As I am currently (apparently) inclined to 'give' it, I am equally expecting to have to 'take' it, so feel free, in the normal spirit of this forum.
This post is mainly aimed at the kind gentleman/men who contributed to my posting on Jean Michel Jarre and recommended to me that Tangerine Dream were a much better example of EM. Sorry but I cannot remember for certain who the guys were (I'm hopeless with remembering names). I just thought that I would post my findings to update you.
I have now acquired Distant Trains Passing By and Rubycon, on CD, and Phaedra on vinyl, and listened to them all a few times. My opinions are mixed.
Distant Trains is OK (at the moment but it may 'grow' on me), nothing more I'm afraid. Phaedra is a bit like the Parson's egg, OK in places but less so in others. Rubycon I find to be just noise, nothing to recommend it at all in my opinion. In general give me JMJ and Equinoxe and Oxygene every time !!
I agree some of JMJ's later works could be described in the same terms as I have described Rubycon and Phaedra but Equnoxe and Oxygene remain for me the supreme examples of the genre.
So there !! :ner:
I have no plans at the moment to dispose of any of the TD music so they may get further chances to impress me.
I await your comments with interest (always assuming that any of you think that such opinions are worth responding to, of course ! :lolsign: )

The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2009, 19:36
So Dave...............if JMJ is a little twee, does that make Tangerine Dream a shwubbewy?

DSJR
24-06-2009, 19:50
Here I go again...

I was a VERY naive 17 year old, into popular "prog" and loving Tonto's Expanding Headband (played the CD today - get it from Amazon), the first Dr Who theme and the UFO end title music, together with Echoes, from Pink Flouyd's Meddle album.

A lady enthusiast/customer, who's become a lifelong friend, had me over to her flat one lunchtime (music only ;)) to hear her then quite advanced system and Phaedra was played for me...

There's a lovely back story to Phaedra - an electronic "burble" was out of tune with the mellotron when recording started. Chris Franke slowed the burble down to a repeating sequence of notes and gradually brought the sequencer in tune. An edited version of this is the first five or more minutes of Phaedra - with extras mixed on top. I LOVE this album and still get goose-bumps every time I play it.

Rubycon is better rehearsed and is compiled from twenty hours of tapes. The abstract nature of the pieces compiled together may not suit you Dave, but this is one of my all time favourite albums, still played regularly and I re-created the sequencing of both parts on a demo download of the Arturia "Moog V." I'm very proud of my sequencing, noise bursts and all and think I still have the files somewhere :D

Their live compilation - Ricochet - and the studio followup - Stratosfear - are more tuneful and may suit better..

On the Uli Schnauss CD, play "Between us and Them" - track 2. Very simple but touches my soul.

I suppose I can say that I FEEL these discs rather than just "hear" them. Different people "feel" different kinds of music in different ways and TD's kind of EM suits me well.

Dave, try to get the Tonto's Expanding Headband compilation disc. these two albums compiled together were created by musicians of great talent (Malcolm Cecil was/is a jazz bassist I understand) and these recordings show great musicianship as well as programming ability of a huge instrument.

Tangerine Dream weren't too hot as technical keyboard players in the early days and are now a "nice" keyboard outfit with Edgar Froese the guiding light over forty years, so they used imagination and great editing abilities to create their classic mid-seventies albums. As technique improved with their better constructed later work, they lost the spontaneity and "danger" I loved so much. if you want to try any more of their later work, PM me and I'll see what I can do ;)

DaveK
24-06-2009, 20:33
So Dave...............if JMJ is a little twee, does that make Tangerine Dream a shwubbewy?

Hi Chris,
By coincidence, on another thread, I have just posted for Marco and Nick's benefit a short diatribe on my sense of humour. I tend to keep a very straight face with most jokes, even if I appreciate the humour. For me to laugh out loud is unusual, unless listening to the Goons, Tommy Cooper, Les Dawson or Ken Dodd - modern comedians seem to need smutty humour (all right in it's place) or to be hyperactive and talk very loud to get a laugh but, by and large it leaves me cold.
Anyway, back to topic: I looked hard at the above for a few seconds, wondering what on earth you were on about - then the penny dropped and I laughed out loud. :lolsign: I like jokes that make you think (a little, not too long) before you 'get' the punch line.
Brill - I like it. Whilst composing this the unoccupied part of my mind has been trying to think of an appropriate response but one escapes me at the moment - I'll come back to it later if I may.
Cheers,

The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2009, 20:38
I'm trying to understand the attraction about all this stuff (yer electronicals) - I've said before that I quite like Phaedra but I only seem to listen to it when I'm going to sleep.

I've just played 'Rubicon' for the first time & thought it was OK, but (listening to it on Spotify) near the end on the second piece, I switched to 'Oxygene' & couldn't detect much of a difference!!

Obviously, this requires a little more research on my part!!

Getting into something new usually requires a few spins.

However, on my exposure so far, I don't think Robbie Robertson would be impressed! (see my signature).

The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2009, 20:46
Hi Chris,

I looked hard at the above for a few seconds, wondering what on earth you were on about - then the penny dropped and I laughed out loud. I like jokes that make you think (a little, not too long) before you 'get' the punch line.
Brill - I like it. Whilst composing this the unoccupied part of my mind has been trying to think of an appropriate response but one escapes me at the moment - I'll come back to it later if I may.
Cheers,

Glad to know I can even crack a Yorkshireman!!

DSJR
24-06-2009, 21:00
I'm trying to understand the attraction about all this stuff (yer electronicals) - I've said before that I quite like Phaedra but I only seem to listen to it when I'm going to sleep.

I've just played 'Rubicon' for the first time & thought it was OK, but (listening to it on Spotify) near the end on the second piece, I switched to 'Oxygene' & couldn't detect much of a difference!!

Obviously, this requires a little more research on my part!!

Getting into something new usually requires a few spins.

However, on my exposure so far, I don't think Robbie Robertson would be impressed! (see my signature).

You need to hear each piece in entirety. Rubycon is either a masterwork or a collection of noises, but to me it's sublime and a disc I play very often.

The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2009, 21:04
You need to hear each piece in entirety. Rubycon is either a masterwork or a collection of noises, but to me it's sublime and a disc I play very often.

Well, I did hear it uninterupted except for the last couple of minutes. As Oxygene went on, I just switched off & now I'm listening to Savoy Brown!

I think Rubycon does it for me rather more than JMJ - I'll be back, I'm sure!

DaveK
24-06-2009, 21:06
I'm trying to understand the attraction about all this stuff (yer electronicals) - I've said before that I quite like Phaedra but I only seem to listen to it when I'm going to sleep.

I've just played 'Rubicon' for the first time & thought it was OK, but (listening to it on Spotify) near the end on the second piece, I switched to 'Oxygene' & couldn't detect much of a difference!! That is stretching the saying "beauty is in the ear of the listener" beyond breaking point for me !! One has a sort of melody, the other is totally unmelodius, IMO.

Obviously, this requires a little more research on my part!! I'll say !!

Getting into something new usually requires a few spins. More than a few as far as Rubicon is concerned, for me !!

However, on my exposure so far, I don't think Robbie Robertson would be impressed! (see my signature).

Cheers,
Dave.

The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2009, 21:29
I've just played 'Rubicon' for the first time & thought it was OK, but (listening to it on Spotify) near the end on the second piece, I switched to 'Oxygene' & couldn't detect much of a difference!!

Dave,
At the actual moment the switch was made the sounds were so similar, that it seemed to me that it really could have been the same piece of music.

Of course, as the JMJ piece went on it was very obvious that they were different. When it got into the second track 'Oxygene pt. 2', I just lost patience with the sound of asteroids whizzing past my ears & decided I'd had enough!

foxysounds
24-06-2009, 21:32
Hi Dave,

You're not really comparing like with like. Tangerine Dream have done well over 50 albums - some are experimental and pushed the boundaries of synthesis at the time but are not melodic. Others are very melodic while being less experimental.

If you like Oxygene and Equinox then you clearly like a large slice of melody with your EM - in which case you have bought completely the wrong TD albums. You might be better off with any or all of the following: Underwater sunlight, Le Parc or Exit.

Some of their albums fall somewhere between these 2 extremes - consisting of long, evolving pieces where melodies emerge, evolve and fade again - perhaps into an altogether different melody or perhaps into some interesting sounds to keep you occupied until the next tune comes along. For me, these are the best of their albums and they include Tangram, Hyperborea, Logos and Livemiles.

Oh - they've done a fair few film soundtracks too but I don't go a whole bundle on those.

I have Phaedra on vinyl. It has a beautiful gatefold sleeve ... but I never play it :-)

Simon.

aquapiranha
24-06-2009, 21:33
My favourites are Ricochet and phaedra (sp?) I also used to like Le Parc, and oh I like Thief also.

The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2009, 21:37
................Now then, where did I put my copy of 'No Pussyfooting'?

DSJR
24-06-2009, 22:19
I have that ready to play - I did Evening Star the other day...

Artists that have been recording for decades have followers of different eras. My love affair with TD mainly spans the "Franke" years from approx 1972 - 1988, with special fondness for the Baumann era from 1972 to 1977. After 1988, the band lost it for me to a large extent, but they gained a whole new generation of fans in the nineties, who can't "get" the stuff I love so much.

I also love some of Klaus Schulze's music, the meandering "Koniunuum" being played this lunchtime.

The Grand Wazoo
24-06-2009, 22:25
I also love some of Klaus Schulze's music, the meandering "Koniunuum" being played this lunchtime.

This is new to me - giving it a go as I type (low-fi Spotify style).

Edit: most of the way through the album - Now, this I like!!!!! I'll be playing it again sometime when I can use the gain control with wild abandon.

I think I saw a Klaus Schulze lp in a local charity shop the other day- if it's still there tomorrow, I'll be cleansing my soul & widening my musical horizons. Thanks a lot!

foxysounds
25-06-2009, 09:19
My love affair with TD mainly spans the "Franke" years from approx 1972 - 1988, with special fondness for the Baumann era from 1972 to 1977. After 1988, the band lost it for me to a large extent, but they gained a whole new generation of fans in the nineties, who can't "get" the stuff I love so much.

Personally I'm not too fond of much they did before 1980 (although Stratosfear was pretty good). I agree that they lost it a bit after 1988. Optical Race was the last one I really enjoyed and even that is not as good as some of its predecessors.

My alltime favourites are Tangram, Hyperborea and Tyger. Tyger is a bit of a departure for the band because it is one of only a very small number of TD albums to feature a singer. I didn't like those tracks at first but they grew on me. The 20 minute instrumental "Alchemy of the heart" is often overlooked because it is on the Tyger album which is a shame because to my mind it was TD at their very best and probably my single favourite track by the band.

Having said all that, I recently heard Tournado (1999) and thought it was pretty good so I guess I ought to investigate some others around that time.

Simon.

DSJR
25-06-2009, 22:11
"Alchemy" was one of the later high-points for me as is the second part of "Song of the Whale pt2" from Underwater Sunlight.

You know, Dave-n-Sue may well prefer Phaedra 2005 to the original. I don't!!!!!!!!! I played the original again today and it still gives me goosebumps, especially as a fantasy of mine is to be able to patch, programme and play a big modular synth...

Talking of TeeDee sounds on a modular, check out "Siliconsequences" on Youtube. There used to be two versions and it's a joy to me to watch the 960 style sequencers "played" on the fly...

Barry
26-06-2009, 13:58
I'm not really qualified to comment since I only have JMJ's 'Oxygene' and TM's 'Phaedra', 'Zeit' and 'Green Desert'. I like them all, though I would agree that JMJ is more melodic than TM. However TM's sublime 'Pheadra' is an almost perfect soundscape and ideal listening at the end of a long night's session (make of that what you will!).

Haselsh1
26-06-2009, 14:40
................Now then, where did I put my copy of 'No Pussyfooting'?


OMG...!!! 'No Pussyfooting' was the most superb piece of experimental music I remember from the seventies. I loved 'Here Come The Warm Jets' as well. I think a lot of the success of this genre of music was that it had never been heard before and was truly groundbreaking. Well, it was either that or all those spliffs.

Barry
26-06-2009, 14:56
OMG...!!! 'No Pussyfooting' was the most superb piece of experimental music I remember from the seventies. I loved 'Here Come The Warm Jets' as well. I think a lot of the success of this genre of music was that it had never been heard before and was truly groundbreaking. Well, it was either that or all those spliffs.

In my case, it was more likely due to the consumption of 'da holy 'erbs, Man!

I still have LP copies of Eno's 'Before and After Science', 'Taking Tiger Mountain By Strategy' and 'Another Green World'. Love them all.

Regards

DSJR
26-06-2009, 17:45
I love the ambiant stuff Eno did and have some of the Ambient series he founded (?). Day of Radiance by Laraaji is a favourite, although it will drive some of you up the wall.

Anyone who also loves TD's ZEIT really does deserve my undying respect, as it's hard going even for me :D - Largo in four movements indeed.............:)

Dave-n-Sue, if you're still following this, try to listen to TeeDee's "Tangram" album. very pleasant that one...

Haselsh1
26-06-2009, 21:48
One of my all time favourite ambient series was 'Thursday Afternoon' by Eno composed for a video installation he was working on some years ago. It lasts for around sixty four minutes and is sooooo relaxing (with weed or without).

DaveK
26-06-2009, 23:00
"....is sooooo relaxing (with weed or without)."

For goodness sake - I thought we were all friends on here - why didn't someone tell me that the recipe had two ingredients - Ive been trying to achieve audio Nirvana by just listening to the music - all becomes clear now.
But it might need a lot for me to appreciate Rubicon :lolsign:
Cheers,

Barry
27-06-2009, 08:46
"....is sooooo relaxing (with weed or without)."

For goodness sake - I thought we were all friends on here - why didn't someone tell me that the recipe had two ingredients - I've been trying to achieve audio Nirvana by just listening to the music - all becomes clear now.
But it might need a lot for me to appreciate Rubicon :lolsign:
Cheers,

Fear not Dave, the use of 'certain substances' is not a neccessary prerequisite to the enjoyment of music, although a glass of wine, real ale or a slug of your favourite spirit can add to the experience.

No, it was just a couple of us hinting to illegal activities in the past.

TD's 'Pheadra' really is a good disc to play last thing at night, before you go to bed. I often used to play it on a Sunday night to relax me before having to face work the following day.

Regards

Barry
27-06-2009, 08:50
I love the ambiant stuff Eno did and have some of the Ambient series he founded (?). Day of Radiance by Laraaji is a favourite, although it will drive some of you up the wall.

...

I like his 'Music for Airports', especially 1/1. Quite meditative and Zen like.

Regards

DaveK
27-06-2009, 09:39
Fear not Dave, the use of 'certain substances' is not a neccessary prerequisite to the enjoyment of music, although a glass of wine, real ale or a slug of your favourite spirit can add to the experience.

No, it was just a couple of us hinting to illegal activities in the past.

TD's 'Pheadra' really is a good disc to play last thing at night, before you go to bed. I often used to play it on a Sunday night to relax me before having to face work the following day.

Regards

Hi Barry,
Thanks for that - got your message just in time to cancel my delivery !! (jus' kiddin' , :lolsign: )
I can only relax in the warm afterglow of something I've just enjoyed, ;) , and sorry, Phaedra just doesn't qualify (yet ?)
Cheers,

Spectral Morn
27-06-2009, 09:51
When I was in college back in the early 80's, I used to regularly have my leg pulled about needing to be under the influence of certain substances to enjoy Gong, Steve Hillage, Magma and Hawkwind. Nope...never needed or took any such stuff.

However I prefer TD's more melodic and less avant garde music. German electronic music can be very melodic, but it does tend to lean more to the abstract. For instance I just don't get CAN at all...sorry.

Anyone like Eloy ?



Regards D S D L

DSJR
27-06-2009, 11:41
I love Can, but some of it is hard going :)

I played "No Pussyfooting" last night and my reaction after 30 years is "what the F*** were these two on?" ---- Self indulgent cr@p :) I had to admire that it was recorded using two Revox A77's though..

"Thursday Afternoon?" Yep, like that one as well. Another Eno favourite is "Music for Films." Not the best sounding, especially as the CD emphases distortion that's there on the LP as well, but "Alternative 3" is a favourite (interesting TV programme if anyone caught it at the time).

Eno's "Apollo" has a well used track "An Ascent" which has me in tears every time I hear it - I made up a tape (yes, a cassette :eek:) when my mother passed on and this track evokes strong anguished memories of that time, when I was single.

Rubycon (with a "Y") is TD's mid seventies masterwork IMO. Try part 2 first, follow the sequences (edited together rather than "played" as Redshift's Mark Shreeve seems to be able to do) to the end, where the lovely mellotron pads blend into the phased sea-shore, and then to the ending which I find evocative of "The Lark Ascending." Part 1 of this album is, for me, dominated by the pulsating sequencing..

At the time, I was happy to listen to this stuff. Today, I regret not buying a small synth and learning to play it. If anyone here tried the Siliconsequences video on Youtube, linking across to the guy's site is a revelation. All those knobs to twiddle and hunfreds of patch chords - I'd be in heaven :lol:

DaveK
30-06-2009, 10:26
Dave-n-Sue, if you're still following this, try to listen to TeeDee's "Tangram" album. very pleasant that one...

Hi Dave,
Thanks for the pointer. Just taken delivey this morning, ex-eBay (for £1.50 = my sort of bargain ;)) a LP of Tangram in near mint condition as far as my eyesight, cloth ears and set up can detect. Spent the last hour listening to both sides and .................
better and more interesting (less boring, more happening) than Phaedra and Rubicon and perhaps on a par with Distant Trains (but very different). I need to listen to it a few more times but I don't think that I will ever be 'Tangerined' like the guy in the advert who gets 'Tango'd :lolsign:.
Cheers,

DSJR
01-07-2009, 16:26
Doesn't matter. BM will be along in a minute to put you right about ZEIT :lol: but once you find an album of theirs that you can enjoy, the others either side of it sort of come along all on their own.

You may also like "Underwater Sunlight." This is very melodic and has real emotion and "texture" to the music. There are plenty in between, of which Exit and Logo's may suit you best at this point (if they're cheap on Amazon, buy the "definitive issue" CD's - most can be got for very little money). Le Parc is fun as well, although the double release of Poland takes some listening to play all through (later for you, perhaps...). I also love the music on White Eagle, but this harks back to the seventies style in places and the dull, "furry" sounding synths don't appeal to this audiophool...

Have you tried mid-seventies Tomita yet? or Blackouts by Ashra (Manuel Gottsching)?

DanJennings
21-07-2009, 09:07
Skimming through this thread has brought back some memories I can tell you....
I'd completely forgotten about Ashra for example, and have now gone rooting through my collection for 'New Age Of Earth' to find it missing. (d'oh!)

My two cents on this, is that Tangerine Dream are most definitely an acquired taste. When I was younger my dad used to constantly play 'Zeit' at me, which is one of their most difficult albums in my opinion, and to be honest, I used to beg him to desist.
However, after a while, I started to get an ear for the quirky, weird, avant-garde, possibly just by saturation, and now I own 'Phaedra' and my personal favourite 'Force Majeure' which I consider prog rock of the highest order, minus the guitars.

But having said that, I do like Can, Hawkwind, Gong, Spirit, Faust etc, and appreciate most people would rather do without. (my missus for example)

And no, I don't require a camberwell carrot to listen to em either ;)

DSJR
21-07-2009, 13:34
Thanks to a PFM bake-off report, I was playing Talk-Talk's Colour of Spring - not loud at all, but of course madam heard it and said how awful it was when she came in (not awful *in her opinion,* just awful ..........)

I'm currently Tanged out, after playing so much of their stuff lately. I might try some Ulrich Schnauss later - "Goodbye" needs an incredibly well sorted system to delve through the murky mix (102 tracks used IIRC)........

New Age of Earth - "Deep Distance" is sublime..........

Joe
22-07-2009, 19:02
Hi,
In commom with my current provocative theme for posts I offer the following for your consideration and comment. As I am currently (apparently) inclined to 'give' it, I am equally expecting to have to 'take' it, so feel free, in the normal spirit of this forum.
This post is mainly aimed at the kind gentleman/men who contributed to my posting on Jean Michel Jarre and recommended to me that Tangerine Dream were a much better example of EM. Sorry but I cannot remember for certain who the guys were (I'm hopeless with remembering names). I just thought that I would post my findings to update you.
I have now acquired Distant Trains Passing By and Rubycon, on CD, and Phaedra on vinyl, and listened to them all a few times. My opinions are mixed.
Distant Trains is OK (at the moment but it may 'grow' on me), nothing more I'm afraid. Phaedra is a bit like the Parson's egg, OK in places but less so in others. Rubycon I find to be just noise, nothing to recommend it at all in my opinion. In general give me JMJ and Equinoxe and Oxygene every time !!
I agree some of JMJ's later works could be described in the same terms as I have described Rubycon and Phaedra but Equnoxe and Oxygene remain for me the supreme examples of the genre.
So there !! :ner:
I have no plans at the moment to dispose of any of the TD music so they may get further chances to impress me.
I await your comments with interest (always assuming that any of you think that such opinions are worth responding to, of course ! :lolsign: )

I think your analysis of TD is spot-on. but I also think JMJ is vastly over-rated. Indeed, anything featuring a mellotron or other noodly electronic device is. Get some Stooges on!

DanJennings
23-07-2009, 08:04
ooooh, steady on! Nowt wrong with the mellotron!
King Crimson? Yes? Pink Floyd? Led Zeppelin? OMD? XTC? Sigur Ros? Marilyn Manson? Opeth?
All used em to great effect!

Gazjam
13-08-2009, 18:08
Tried Tangerine Dream back in the 80's, and didn;t really do much for me.
I have a couple of their movie soundtracks though, not bad, a bit "stuck in the 80's" for me.

I'm surprised no-ones mentioned Vangelis already.

Electronic music? I meand B I G powerful electronic stuff?
He;s your man.

Dave C?
If your not that familiar with his stuff I cant recommend it enough to a JMJ man!

WYeDsa4Tw0c

L_Tg0PaWaN

Gazjam
13-08-2009, 18:15
Cant believe no-ones mentioned Vangelis here yet.

Dave C, if your not that familiar with his stuff I cant recommend it highly enough to a JMJ man!

WYeDsa4Tw0c

SIpjLWQCSY8

Barry
13-08-2009, 18:46
ooooh, steady on! Nowt wrong with the mellotron!
King Crimson? Yes? Pink Floyd? Led Zeppelin? OMD? XTC? Sigur Ros? Marilyn Manson? Opeth?
All used em to great effect!

So did the Beatles on 'Strawberry Fields Forever'. Thought the mention of Mellotron always reminds me of the Moody Blues. :(


Can't believe no-ones mentioned Vangelis here yet.

I thought they had: 'Albedo 0.39' and 'Heaven and Hell'.


Phaedra is a bit like the Parson's egg, OK in places but less so in others. Rubycon I find to be just noise, nothing to recommend it at all in my opinion

Shock, Horror!

Oh well, each to their own. :eyebrows:

Regards

Gazjam
13-08-2009, 21:26
thats what happens barry when you dont read the whole thread!

Barry
13-08-2009, 21:38
Thats what happens Barry when you don't read the whole thread!

Apologies Gazjam,

You're right - no mention of Vangelis in this thread. I was thinking of my post (no 12) in:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2624&page=2 ,

though no specific mention of titles.

Regards

DSJR
15-08-2009, 20:19
You want BIG em music, try Redshift LOUD!!!!!

Vangelis could be good, but liked too much far eastern sounds and "tinkly bits" IMO. Apparently, he almost deafened himself and lost most of his high frequency sensitivity apparently.


I tried to listen to "Phaedra 2005" this last week. I dislike it, but so many of you guys may prefer it for the reasons I don't. "Movements of a Visionary" is superb in both old and new versions.

DaveK
15-08-2009, 20:44
You want BIG em music, try Redshift LOUD!!!!!

Vangelis could be good, but liked too much far eastern sounds and "tinkly bits" IMO. Apparently, he almost deafened himself and lost most of his high frequency sensitivity apparently.


I tried to listen to "Phaedra 2005" this last week. I dislike it, but so many of you guys may prefer it for the reasons I don't. "Movements of a Visionary" is superb in both old and new versions.

Hi Dave,
I'm embarrassed to say I've never heard (or heard of, maybe) Redshift so maybe I'll try and Spotify them. It always surprises me that more modern musicians don't deafen themselves given their regular close proximity to mega decibels - same goes for those (usually backwards facing base ball cap wearing) young pillocks who have more power coming out of their over-amped bass that takes up the entire boot than they have on their drive shaft.
I wasn't overkeen on Phaedra the last time I listened to it - maybe it's time to give it another spin - but believe me it's loads better than Rubicon. 'Movements of a Visionary' is again one I don't think I've heard or heard of. Dohhhhh! :doh: I've just Googled it and found that it is said to be part of Phaedra so I'm now confused - I guess 'Phaedra' and 'Phaedra 2005' are not exactly identical?
Cheers,

DSJR
15-08-2009, 23:04
Phaedra consists of four tracks, the title track taking up one LP side. Movements' is the penultimate track.

I'm stunned you don't like Rubycon - it's AWESOME, especially if you listen late at night with lights low or even out. Imagine underwater oceanic scenes and you'll maybe get something from it - there again, maybe not ;)

back in 1988, TD did a "version" of Phaedra with more modern synths and percussion added and this sort of became the 2005 release, as well as a subtle remix on, I think, TD Plays TD. I believe Virgin won't return the copyrights to Edgar F so he "tangentises" old tracks, adding often broad washes of sound over old recordings to varying effect. Oldies like me hate this, but newbies to the band don't always feel the same.

Try Spotifying TD's "Underwater Sunlight." It's lovely and the ONLY album of theirs that my better half will listen to.

Regarding Redshift. Their Mark Shreeve has done various bits here and there over the years, but in the mid nineties he bought a Moog Modular IIIC synth and set about restoring it. The power and "organic analogue" quality it has is just incredible and CD or not, much of this power comes across in the recordings he's done. These are mainly available via FLAC downloads, although some CD's are available

Try-

http://www.redshreeve.org/

I can't get the official site (www.redshift .biz) at the moment..

The first few discs (studio and live) were influenced by the mid-seventies TD and Klaus Schulze I love so much, but became darker and less derivative as time went on - far more abstract with a more aggressive synth sound IMO..

Try the site Groove.nl (I think it is). there's hundreds of "EM" albums with many sound samples to try - Ron Boots is a good artist to start on as well as Gert Emmens. I have none of their albums, but some of the mp3 samples sound interesting.

There's a great free "EM" based internet radio show and this can be downloaded. I've forgotten my facebook password tonight (bloody computer cleaners that "automatically" clean your hard drive when you least expect it..) but will post the link tomorrow..


1, http://spotlight.soundfuturesdirect.com/podcast/

2, http://tdfanszone.soundfuturesdirect.com/podcast/

'Night all!

The Grand Wazoo
25-02-2013, 01:07
From the Grave

MartinT
25-02-2013, 07:06
There is room for all manner of creative electronic music and some of the greats for me have been the more coherent and melodic pieces such as Tangerine Dream - Ricochet, Jean Michel Jarre - Oxygene, Brian Eno - Apollo, Vangelis - Heaven and Hell and Kraftwerk - The Man Machine.

Each has their personal meaning for me (memories of impending big life changes at the end of Sixth Form listening to Ricochet, for instance), but I will never forget playing Oxygene to a friend soon after acquiring it and his comment "that's not music, that's an experience".

One of my personal favourites that has stood the test of time (and is also a good system test) is Tangerine Dream - Exit. Some wonderful melodies and killer bass rhythms.

synsei
25-02-2013, 07:10
Heaven and Hell, one of my all time favourite Vangelis pieces which always reminds of the late and very great Carl Sagan, as parts of it were used as the theme for his epic series, Cosmos... :)

MartinT
25-02-2013, 07:13
Indeed Dave, and parts of Apollo were used in the minor cult classic Static (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090069/?ref_=fn_al_tt_3).

synsei
25-02-2013, 07:20
Hmm, not heard of that one Martin. Looks interesting ;)

DSJR
25-02-2013, 07:44
EM's moved on though - (Ed Buller's) Node, later Redshift and Ulrich Schnauss have pushed things on in different ways. I can't get my head round the blandness that seems to be so much of Tangerine Dream's current spewed output on the soundbites I've heard. I can't spend loads of dosh every year on the numerous releases hoping to find one good track amongst the elevsator music.....

.mus
25-02-2013, 08:31
Heh. Coincidentally I was listening to the Fripp & Eno discs a couple of days ago - great stuff. I really enjoy classic TD and Eno. I'm not familiar with the recent TD output, but Eno is still turning out music that I like - the recent LUX is particularly lovely.

My impression is that rhythm and repetition play a much bigger part in current electronic than they did in its "space music" ancestors, no doubt in part due to the influence of techno, and other forms of electronic dance music. But that's not to say that there's not a lot of straight-up electronic listening music being made today, it's just that there's been a lot of influence from the dancefloor to the living room (and back again). For exciting contemporary electronic music, a good label to keep an eye on is Raster Noton (http://www.raster-noton.net/); Byetone's 'Symeta (https://bleep.com/release/32713)' is a modern classic. Or for something less cold and more organic, Amon Tobin's 'ISAM (https://bleep.com/release/29726)' (on Ninjatune) is sublime.

Sonority
25-02-2013, 11:59
As a fan of early TD I can well understand the head scratching as to why anyone likes it, even at all.
I personally find a great deal of it sublime.

To even mention JMJ in the same sentence is akin to an opera buff stating all rock is the same - ie, Dire Straits & Opeth..

To even begin to understand how far in advance Rubicon is over and above anything else at the time you need to understand what was being used to make the music.
These were (for the time) highly advanced bits of kit, but almost laughable in todays world.

The VCO's (voltage controlled oscillators) regularly went out of tune, so when a great sequence starts to run, morphs and changes - it eventually goes way out and the entire setup needs to be re tuned and the next sequence set. During this phase, a fair bit of 'noodling' goes on.

Tangerine dream back then and probably up to the double live album were all about huge soundscapes and amazing sequences.
That changed slowly but surely into shorter, more dance orientated tracks, some aimed purely at films, where they made plenty of friends and money. Film scores need a huge amount of sound bites, not huge pieces. (Note - try the OST to DRIVE - amazing)

If you dislike Rubicon, you aint going to like Atem, Zeit or Alpha Centauri, so dont even bother.

If your preference is for JMJ then from Poland on you will find a lot more accessible and easy to get on with. I finished with them at Underwater Sunlight & Optical Race I would suggest you give them a try, you may just like them.

Now if you really want some fun - try and find early Redshift albums with Mark Shreeve at the helm.

They out dream the dream by a big margin, and use original kit.

Redshift by Redshift is still available, but from then on expect to pay a lot for Ether, Downtime, Siren etc - all of which use early TD riffs / sequences to start running.

Tangerine Dream used to appear on stage and use Pink Floyds Set the Controls as a dive in point for their own sequence and the concert onwards..

DSJR
25-02-2013, 13:18
Rubycon has been compared to a drift through an oceanic soundscape...

TeeDee's Edgar Froese was/is a master of sewing different sessions together to make a beautiful whole - that's how the first few Virgin-Records' albums they made were constructed. Today, it just seems to me to be preset 5 and 7 on a midi-laptop emulation of classic keyboards (this could be the live show though, with plasma screens showing a synth control board)..

Try son Jerome Froese instead. I prefer his current stuff to anything he did with his father...

LOADS of EM, past influenced and present out there. Groove (nl) Records often have samples to try in their extensive catalogue.

Simon
25-02-2013, 15:09
Presumably then I'm in rather a small club in rating Force Majeure as one of TM's most listenable - albeit as background music I confess - albums.

DSJR
25-02-2013, 18:28
It's one of the greatest according to me anyway.. I think it really started to go bland after Franke and then Haslinger left - just my opinion like.....

The Barbarian
22-06-2014, 21:39
I must have missed this Topic!

Believe it or not TD were one of the first bands i got into..I do have all the 'Pink Years' {'Electronic Meditation' - 'Atem'} & all the 'Virgin Years' {'Phaedra' - 'Hyperborea'} i am gradually replacing them all with original vinyl editions.. There has always been something about TD that has kinda been an obsession with me, probably my love for Analogue Synthesizers.. ofc i do have all the Klaus Shulze, Edgar Froese, Peter Baumann solo LP's on CD again soon to be swapped for Records.

This may sound odd but Edgar Froese is actually a guitar player & both Chris Franke {Agitation} & Klause Shulze {Ash Ra Tempel} were previously drummer in other bands..

However one thing i wish people would not do is mix Early Electronic bands that emerged from the Berlin School of electronic music with other electronic music in general! there's a big difference.

Barry
22-06-2014, 21:43
How about writing some of this up for us André? We could put it in The Knowledge. :)

The Barbarian
22-06-2014, 21:52
Writing what up Barry? Bands that emerged from the school?

Barry
22-06-2014, 21:57
Yes, bands such as Can, Amon Düül II, Popol Vuh, Faust, Ash Ra Tempel, Neu!, Guru Guru, Agitation Free, Continuum (?) etc., as well as Tangerine Dream (and Kraftwerk).

The Barbarian
22-06-2014, 21:58
There is quite a few works that lovers of TD type music would like for example the Swiss F.G Experimental Labs {Fredy Guye} 'Journey Into A Dream' LP which is ofc great & very rare on record being only around 100 copies.

The Barbarian
22-06-2014, 22:35
Yes, bands such as Can, Amon Düül II, Popol Vuh, Faust, Ash Ra Tempel, Neu!, Guru Guru, Agitation Free, Continuum (?) etc., as well as Tangerine Dream (and Kraftwerk).

This can get messy if we are not careful. Not dissimular to the 1960's USA each state had a different style of music, pretty much the same in Germany, different areas had different sound style with quite a few Sub geners of Kr*utrock.. However all these experimental band were very quick to evolve into a whole new sound. For example the first TD LP would sound nothing like 'Phaedra' within a short period of say four years, Gone are the Drones & effects for full on killar Analog Sequencing..

As you mention Kraftwerk. The pre-Kraftwerk: Organisation 'Tone Float' LP & the first titled Kraftwerk LP both had proper drummers. by the time of 'Kraftwerk 2' LP drummer was dropped for drum machine..from then on this band could be deemed an Electronic band..

Continium was not Kr*utrock they were a Dutch band with Eastern European member. Good band though all the same.'Autumn Grass' is great LP..

Early german Experimental bands that are worth a listerm DOM 'Edge of time', lovers of really early TD are bound to love this one.. Limbus are great bands too especially Limbus 4 'Mandalas' LP.. Not forgetting Probably the first experimental German band Zweistein 'Trip+Flip+Out+ Meditation' is really far out triple album..

btw: Bands from both Austria & Switzerland are also branded as Kr*utrock

If your after far out bands such as The Cosmic Jokers, Dreamlab etc you should be looking under Kosmiche Musik sector..

sparrow
23-06-2014, 21:35
My fave ensemble..still going today...there are loads of bands/artists doing similar to what TD were doing in dem dark but good 70's..I like a lot of them. TD are nowhere near as popular these days and are currently doing their farewell tour of de world. Klaus Schulze is another fave but a very different kettle o fish. His more recent output although fairly good IMO..is pedestrian compared again to dem dark but good 70's. Electronic music in general is a fairly niche market these days with very few newer acts making a living from it.

long live TD..

Techno Commander
23-06-2014, 22:05
Always been a fan of Tangerine Dream.

Cyclone, Melrose and Lily on the Beach are probably my favourites.

Jimbo
24-06-2014, 12:14
Always been a fan of Tangerine Dream.

Cyclone, Melrose and Lily on the Beach are probably my favourites.

I love Madrigal Meridian on the Cyclone album - just superb. Need to get myself a nice clean copy -on vinyl of course!

DSJR
24-06-2014, 19:21
Nah, the CD is better as the vinyls weren't cut too well and could be noisy. A 48 track recording so plenty for them to mix down I read somewhere!

What is it with TeeDee these days? Edgar's releasing piles of discs every year and nothing I've heard recently floats my Moog ;) Klaus Schulze still refers back to the golden age of Berlin School but puts a modern twist on it.

The Barbarian
24-06-2014, 21:46
Yew lot will listern to the old Barbarian one day..

Barry
25-06-2014, 00:54
Yew lot will listern to the old Barbarian one day..

Who's to say we don't? :eyebrows:

sparrow
26-06-2014, 15:02
Nah, the CD is better as the vinyls weren't cut too well and could be noisy. A 48 track recording so plenty for them to mix down I read somewhere!

What is it with TeeDee these days? Edgar's releasing piles of discs every year and nothing I've heard recently floats my Moog ;) Klaus Schulze still refers back to the golden age of Berlin School but puts a modern twist on it.

I find the release schedule for new TD releases tiresome Dave...I buy em ..and I for the most part like em..but 4 or 5 albums a year plus compilations and compilations of compilations is excessive Tee Dee overload and very expensive.
When Edgar pops his clogs there is enough music in the can for about 70 albums..to be released by his missus Bianca.

DSJR
26-06-2014, 17:06
SO much new 'Berlin School revisited' stuff around now I lost touch years ago :( Some of the more spaced-out chill stuff is really good and Ulrich Schnauss is always worth listening to - didn't like the first 'Engineers' CD overmuch but now he's in it, I need to find out more ;)

losenotaminute
26-06-2014, 18:08
Tyger is an excellent album, using lyrics from William Blake's poems:

spotify:album:567xgdsf07FXXrwo6AyMUq

Lawrence