What Type of Turntable Isolation do you use?

[Jimbo]

Just interested in what AOS folks are using for Turntable Isolation as it does have a large inpact on performance as we all know. Particularly I am interested in materials and methods used either for rooms with wooden or concrete floors. Its interesting that the materials for the actual turntable are carefully chosen for their audible/non-audible characteristics. But have you found audible differences with materials used for mounting the turntable on. Is a Slate shelf better than a wooden shelf. Is one type of wooden table better than another?:scratch:

[MikeMusic]

Mana
Glass plate on metal spikes

[chris@panteg]

Interesting this as I have found after a bit of experimenting recently , my system is in an attic room (Victorian house) so wooden floor , I have an old Soundfactory tripod stand which is very sturdy but the boards supplied are not too great so I substituted the top board for a Notts Analog isolation board which is made from some sort of HDF or similar ,not sure but its substantial and pretty hard to the touch , on top of this my 1210 rests on Isonoe feet ,seems to work very well and gives good isolation .

Two of the best Turntable supports I've come across are the Audiotech table and the RATA Torlyte stand ,the latter being especially good on concrete type floors ,a friend has one with a Voyd supported with excellent results .

I've heard really good things about Bamboo , try and find a good sized Bamboo board and place under your deck ,worth a try I think .

[MartinT]

Solid Tech sprung system rack
Techniboots
Isonoes

Yes, it all makes a considerable difference to SQ, tightening up the sound and removing bloated bass.

[chelsea]

Some feet off an old pioneer deck and ikea lack.
Probably get another wall shelf one day.

[Oldpinkman]

proper turntable design ;)

[chris@panteg]

proper turntable design ;)

You mean like the Voyd ,much better than that Pink triangle riff raff :)

[Gordon Steadman]

proper turntable design ;)

Quite agree, none of this suspended TT rubbish:lol:

[Spectral Morn]

Best isolation, wall shelf, fixed to a solid wall but not mounted in a corner - it that can be avoided.


Regards Neil

[Joe]

Target stand (a fairly substantial thing with thick wooden shelves and spiked metal pillars) on wooden floor. Never had a problem with footfall or anything like that. Deck is a Roksan Xerxes X.

[Jimbo]

Interesting this as I have found after a bit of experimenting recently , my system is in an attic room (Victorian house) so wooden floor , I have an old Soundfactory tripod stand which is very sturdy but the boards supplied are not too great so I substituted the top board for a Notts Analog isolation board which is made from some sort of HDF or similar ,not sure but its substantial and pretty hard to the touch , on top of this my 1210 rests on Isonoe feet ,seems to work very well and gives good isolation .

Two of the best Turntable supports I've come across are the Audiotech table and the RATA Torlyte stand ,the latter being especially good on concrete type floors ,a friend has one with a Voyd supported with excellent results .

I've heard really good things about Bamboo , try and find a good sized Bamboo board and place under your deck ,worth a try I think .

VPI suggest using a maple block for their non suspended turntables. I think the different densities and properties of acoustic vibration/suppression in various woods would be an interesting area for investigation. I am presuming the more dense the material the better. I see that a fair number of folk on the forum have questioned the use of granite, slate and wood for their turntable plinth especially with some of the old Garrard decks. Interestingly VPI use MDF and massive steel plate to add mass to their plinths. Maybe a shelf of similar construction maybe the way to go?:)

[Kember]

Fairly random

Mission Isoplat on an mdf shelf on Apollo stand for the Kuzma - it works well with the skeletal body.
Dark Rock isolation platform with Soundspikes on an mdf shelf for the Clearaudio - but am planning to transfer to a Wilson Benesch tripod shortly
Low wooden table for my newly-acquired massive slate-plinthed 401 - I'm working out what to do longer term but I think it deserves a stand made of wood and slate.

P

[Oldpinkman]

Quite agree, none of this suspended TT rubbish:lol:

I used to have a 38mm chipboard (the cut-out for the sink from a kitchen worktop) on wooden battens screwed to an outside brick wall alcove. Now I have 18mm pine planks on wooden battens. I can listen on headphones with the speakers off, or at window rattling levels, and the turntable plays the same. No footfall. No airborne. None, zip nada. How much better can it get? I have used it on a metal desk in a student cell at Aston University, and on piece of chipboard on a carpeted floor at Uni. I used to take it back and forth in my Sunbeam Sport (a go-faster Imp variant), and would undo the transit bolt, thread the belt with the pink string, and it was set to play. Time after time (or term after term if you prefer)

Sticks and stones, Gordon... :cool:

[prestonchipfryer]

Granite shelf with Techno Boots and Isonoes for my lovely Techy SL1200. Tried the Isonoe glass supports but found better without.

[Ali Tait]

Garrard 401 in twin tier 30mm slate plinth, all sat on spikes. Sounds great to me.

[tapid]

Shortly having a little contest between a morrisons bamboo bread board and harmonics ( oh my word I can't believe the price) resolution systems fancy bits. Hope the bamboo canes it!

[PaulStewart]

Equinox XL Pro SE rack and under the Art Audio Composer-1 a SoundStage isolation sheet. This is a liquid filled glass sandwich I developed for the Loricraft for the Garrard TTs, especially the 501 but, it works well with most. I have used it with Regas, Michells and others all to good effect. it gives a measured 23dB isolation @ 250Hz 32dB @ 1kHz. and 40 dB @ 10kHz

[Gordon Steadman]

I have a Soundstyle rack. The TT sits on two sheets of glass with rubber pads between them and a Magnet bedroom unit chipboard shelf on top of them also with rubber pads under.

I bunged the shelf on because it was the right size and I was bored with the look of the glass. It doesn't sound any worse so stays in place. I have never had feedback or jumping problems with the TT anyway. Its not a suspended design but has two separate damping layers in the design.

EDIT:I have just remembered I did have a problem once!! This was with the TT about a foot behind the big speakers with a 12" bass unit (instead of the usuals 57s) playing reggae at insane levels.

[NRG]

A different room to the 'speakers :D Plus Oak cone feet.

[Marco]

proper turntable design...

'Proper' turntables aren't driven by elastic bands..... Attend to that first, before worrying about anything else! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.

[Oldpinkman]

'Proper' turntables aren't driven by elastic bands..... Attend to that first, before worrying about anything else! :eyebrows:

;)

Marco.
I'll let Arthur know that when I see him tomorrow. He's been wondering where he's been going wrong all these years :doh:

[PaulStewart]

'Proper' turntables aren't driven by elastic bands..... Attend to that first, before worrying about anything else! Marco.

It's not the bands that are the problem Marco, it's the bouncy springs. As long as you have a quality bearing and things are kept rigid, torquey and massy, it can be bands,rubber wheels or direct :lol:

[Oldpinkman]

It's not the bands that are the problem Marco, it's the bouncy springs. As long as you have a quality bearing and things are kept rigid, torquey and massy, it can be bands,rubber wheels or direct :lol:

Again, I have few doubts Arthur will welcome the correction of his naieve mis-apprehensions from true experts on the subject, and reappraise his decision to depart from the forum.

[Marco]

I still don't really know why he left, other than falling out with Martin over his findings for the latest Funk platter for the Techy... :confused:

Marco.

[Oldpinkman]

I still don't really know why he left, other than falling out with Martin over his findings for the latest Funk platter for the Techy... :confused:

Marco.

I think my reply to Paul's comment was a decent precis. Arthur can be a difficult character, but is a good friend, and has been for a very long time. Martin T is entitled to hear what he hears, and was a great help to Arthur who had gone off unresearched and unaware of the Mike New range, its dominance, and non-standard fit, and I would personally like to thank him for his efforts and intentions, since I was caught up in the melee at the time too. But having encountered difficulties he then leapt to final conclusions based on a 5 minute appraisal of MN's platter against a defective Funk one, which was buried without trace before birth. I understand there were difficult circumstances which prevented Neils timely review of the platter, and the saphire bearings are sitting in a drawer with discarded carbon-fibre arm tubes. However, whilst acknowledging Martins assistance and goodwill, and the challenges of working with a fire-cracker like Arthur, there was a lot of "fact" presented which didn't accord with Arthurs (or my) view of the world. We all are entitled to our own experiences and opinions, and it would be a sad world if one size fitted all, but I think AK takes a view on the opinions of others who have experiences very different from his own. £800 kettle lead eulogisation might be an example of an experience that is not shared. Mechano arms with mad lateral effective mass and spectacular beam resonances another. The world of HiFi mags, dealers and distributors, not without its own prejudices and insanities, is a more comfortable and certainly more productive and lucrative one, and he needed to focus on the day job. He's mellowing. Never is a very long time. Who knows? You will understand why Arthur is unlikely ever to take Paul up on his kind offer to review product ;)

[radio]

My Gyro SE is sitting on a Liedtke-Metalldesign Fusion stand,i got it made to measure from Dirk Liedtke in germany,there is a metal top plate and on the top of this is a Shale plate this sits on stainless steel grinded tubes,this is a beast of a stand ,My floor is concrete with a carpet,and this stand is solid and in my opinon does the job Very well,this guy also make 1st class speaker stands also made to measure,you should check out his web site.

[MartinT]

Martin T is entitled to hear what he hears, and was a great help to Arthur who had gone off unresearched and unaware of the Mike New range, its dominance, and non-standard fit, and I would personally like to thank him for his efforts and intentions, since I was caught up in the melee at the time too. But having encountered difficulties he then leapt to final conclusions based on a 5 minute appraisal of MN's platter against a defective Funk one, which was buried without trace before birth.

That's not exactly it, but we've been here before so it isn't worth recounting. Suffice to say that Arthur wanted me to listen to the components, he didn't want me to conduct laboratory tests. When I then gave him the results of said listening tests (which were a lot more than 5 minutes), he didn't like my comments and refused to talk to me. Now I'm all for giving a manufacturer a helping hand in conducting listening tests and giving them my evaluation, but I'm always going to tell it like it is, not what they want to hear. I thought Arthur was bigger than that. Other manufacturers who have asked for my evaluations are.

In any case, what became of the glass Mk. II platter? Did it, in the end, not come up to scratch? I said that the original Funk platter sounded better and I stand by that assessment.


Mechano arms with mad lateral effective mass and spectacular beam resonances another.

:lol: you should hear a Dynavector, Richard. It might change your views!

[Tarzan]

My Gyro SE is sitting on a Liedtke-Metalldesign Fusion stand,i got it made to measure from Dirk Liedtke in germany,there is a metal top plate and on the top of this is a Shale plate this sits on stainless steel grinded tubes,this is a beast of a stand ,My floor is concrete with a carpet,and this stand is solid and in my opinon does the job Very well,this guy also make 1st class speaker stands also made to measure,you should check out his web site.

We need piccies Maria.:eek:

[Oldpinkman]

In any case, what became of the glass Mk. II platter? Did it, in the end, not come up to scratch? I said that the original Funk platter sounded better and I stand by that assessment.



:lol: you should hear a Dynavector, Richard. It might change your views!

Strata is now platter of choice on Funks top of the range Vector and Saphire turntables - both I believe on show at Brighton. I think Arthur is waiting for recognition in the mainstream to filter back to the Technics modding world, but he also recognises what a distraction that market is, because it is so "hands on". I think he is right to focus on his primary distribution chain and product range, and maybe come back to "fiddling" when he has exhausted the (fairly substantial) list of ideas he has for mainstream product.

I'd love to hear the Dynavector one day , and I am sure it works well for you. It would sadly squash my precious PT TT. In the final analysis we all listen to record players (for me that goes all the way to phono preamp), not components and there are doubtless many ways to achieve a happy result with those. As I said - it would be a sad world if one size fits all :)

[radio]

i need to read up on how to send pics ive never posted a pic before excuse my lack of the know how,i will read up on it.

[Oldpinkman]

In any case, what became of the glass Mk. II platter? Did it, in the end, not come up to scratch? I said that the original Funk platter sounded better and I stand by that assessment.


It occurs to me that not to comment could be mis-interpreted as agreement. I too listened to both - I hadn't heard a Funk acrylic before being asked to "referee" the debate. My Funk platters were of course defect free, and on funk bearings not MN ones. Primarily I was engaged on the absurd task of listening to a "warble" imagined by others because they thought mass and inertia were different from Technics standard when they weren't. I could hear no warble, and goodness only knows I listened to a sustained vocal from Holly Johnson enough bloody times at 45rpm to be pretty sure on that one.

As such, I wasn't particularly listening to the differences between the 2 platters - which I still want to do - not because I care a hoot about the Technics, but because I want to evaluate whether it is going to be worth the effort of a substantial suspension modification to make the heavier strata work on my PT mod. The background to this was first hearing Dave Brubeck being played by Arthur on a strata-modded LSD with standard F5 arm and Decca London Gold cartridge, and feeling "I want some of that". As I have rambled elsewhere, there are trade-offs with all choices, and I prefer the mid-band qualities and exquisite detail of the FXR at the expense of the bass "punch" of the F5. With platters, if I am assured I don't lose those mid-band qualities of the acrylic for the strata, and I am trying to get AK to humour me with a further hybrid experiment, then I would go with strata. Based on my limited and alternative focussed listening sessions on AK's system, in his room, neither of which I like, and with a Denon 103 which didn't light my fire, I preferred the strata. I would like to hear more before committing.

But as I pointed out to Kevin elsewhere regarding CF armtubes - AK has had much more opportunity to experiment, has VERY similar tastes to mine, and has made a firm and committed decision.

Finally - it is NOT glass. That's like calling aerolam "aluminium" or diamonds "carbon". It's not that they're not. You've missed the point. If you pick up a glass LSD platter and rap it it sings a very clear note. A window pane does the same. A strata platter, even before the achromat is bonded to it, may look like glass but is stone dead acoustically. Silent like MDF - but without the stifling damping of MDF. You miss the point, and only wind the boy up further, referring to it as "glass"

:)

[MartinT]

Finally - it is NOT glass. That's like calling aerolam "aluminium" or diamonds "carbon". It's not that they're not. You've missed the point. If you pick up a glass LSD platter and rap it it sings a very clear note. A window pane does the same. A strata platter, even before the achromat is bonded to it, may look like glass but is stone dead acoustically. Silent like MDF - but without the stifling damping of MDF. You miss the point, and only wind the boy up further, referring to it as "glass"

Apologies and I stand corrected.

[Oldpinkman]

I think this is probably acceptable thread drift, since it relates to isolation in turntables, but I have been reflecting on Arthurs shift from acrylic to his new strata material (bonded glass composite).

He is of course associated with the "no mat acrylic platter" and held the patent for the idea. So what's changed? The Pink Triangle was not simply an acrylic platter. It was a ground up integrated rethink of the Thorens / Linn / Ariston suspended concept. It used a DC motor to address the "noise" of the AC synchronous (and in the Anni to permit mounting on the sub-chassis), and it stabilised the suspension by hanging it instead of floating it, and placing the centre of mass at the centre of suspension.

Critically it was about energy paths and removing energy from the record / stylus interface. The job of the thick acrylic platter was to provide an impedance match with vinyl, and then transmit the energy through a precision hard sapphire inverted bearing to a "lossy" sub-chassis, where it was converted to heat or dispersed into the plinth as sound. The sub-chassis made of aerolam was rigid, in the way the original LP12 (made from pressed mild steel) was decidedly not, and its asymetric shape avoided standing waves. In the anniversary the sub-chassis was enhanced by being a bonded aerolam-balsa composite material

The suspension kept the whole suspended system isolated from external energy interference. Arguably this is why Achromat has a limited impact on a PT. It takes over the job of impedance match AND energy dispersal (as heat) in the mat itself, and renders the job of the platter one of support. There is no need to channel energy into a lossy sub-chassis. Rigid and dead are then the key criteria for platter materials, and strata is more rigid and more dead than acrylic.

So where does this leave the suspended "lossy" sub-chassis? The other big resonator in the system, the arm, particularly in the case of FXR transmits that energy evenly (no big peaks on the graphs) - but it is high energy transmission, through good bearings which go straight into the sub-chassis on the PT again, which remains isolated from the environment by its stable spring suspension system.

The "rubber band" issue, and its interaction with the suspension, is addressed in what for me will be the "must have" mod on my "super-Anni" pimping project - the premotec motor mounted on the sub-chassis, with the vector drive system - (another patent) stabilising the transmission of power to the platter using 3 belt contact points instead of one. Torque and mass are not relevant in a product which achieves stability from its servo mechanism and high speed DC motor operation, and is not required to start and stop in a very short time.

The validity of acrylic as a platter material is changed by the arrival of achromat (another patent)which disperses the energy before it is passed on through the bearing and hence the exploration of the strata concept, which focuses on rigidity and "deadness".

That's my understanding. And its the basis for my PT pimping plans. AK's shift to solids for production models is driven by fashion and economy, not a feeling that a well designed suspended deck is not the best solution. Whether we ever get it done is another matter of course, but its no longer my busy season :)

[Marco]

Proper paragraphs please, Richard! :doh:

Just looking at that mélange of words, crammed together above, makes me disinterested in reading it, even if what you've written was interesting!! ;)

Marco.

[Oldpinkman]

Proper paragraphs please, Richard! :doh:

Just looking at that mélange of words, crammed together above, makes me disinterested in reading it, even if what you've written was interesting!! ;)

Marco.

:o

[Marco]

Fank yoo! :)

Marco.

[cjm123]

I use an ancient Something Solid 3 shelf equipment stand with glass shelves. The top shelf is double spike isolated and supports my Rega RP1. It Looks a bit rudimentary but it is the best sounding isolation I have found for my Rega RP1 and does not seem to impart a hard sound to it.

best

Chris

[Haselsh1]

I use a Pro-Ject Ground It Deluxe which works extremely well.

[sq225917]

Bike inner tube

[MartinT]

Bike inner tube

Tried that years ago, between RATA Torlyte shelves, and it was surprisingly effective.

[Jimbo]

Solid Tech sprung system rack
Techniboots
Isonoes

Yes, it all makes a considerable difference to SQ, tightening up the sound and removing bloated bass.

Hi Martin,

are the Isonoes attached to your TT and do they then sit on Techniboots? I was thinking of attaching the Isonoes to a shelf on which I would then stand TT:scratch:

[MartinT]

are the Isonoes attached to your TT and do they then sit on Techniboots? I was thinking of attaching the Isonoes to a shelf on which I would then stand TT:scratch:

The Isonoes are designed to screw into the underside of the Technics deck, and mine then sit in Techniboots on the shelf. I don't think they're really designed for upside-down use.

[Pete The Cat]

Glass shelf on sorbothane Flatfeet Ultra, on a Bradstone concrete shelf on rubber grommets, on a Soundstyle rack.

Pete

[The Barbarian]

Foculpods but you can't see em..

[Jimbo]

Great to have so many replies to this post and reading through there does seem to be quite a diverse range of methods and materials used. I will put together an analysis of results from this post detailing these methods and materials to see if I can find a system that is most commonly used so please do keep posting your Turnatable Isolation methods and materials.

[f1eng]

My turntable has isolation built in.
Isolation over the full audio range requires a pretty soft system (unless the deck is very heavy). To isolate down to 20Hz requires the suspension to deflect around an inch with the weight of the deck, FWIW.
Most commonly used isolation systems only isolate at mid range frequencies and above.

[John]

Wall shelf to concrete wall

[tpbholm]

Linn LP12 on a Silent Stage 1 Acrylic platform which sits on spikes on an old steel frame Target stand with glass shelves.
The Silent Stage is composed of two acrylic shelves with sorbothane pads between them. There are 4 different density pads supplied so that you can tune the platform - I started with one set and it sounded great so never bothered trying the others. The top shelf also has a handy built in spirit level.

[MartinT]

Linn LP12 on a Silent Stage 1 Acrylic platform which sits on spikes on an old steel frame Target stand with glass shelves.

That's interesting, Trevor. Is there any interaction between the sprung sub-chassis and the sorbothane pads, in terms of bounce? I have become more convinced by sorbothane for source components in recent times, and my system rack is sprung - so the reverse of your setup. What do you hear over the deck just being placed on the Target?

[The Barbarian]

That's interesting, Trevor. Is there any interaction between the sprung sub-chassis and the sorbothane pads, in terms of bounce? I have become more convinced by sorbothane for source components in recent times, and my system rack is sprung - so the reverse of your setup. What do you hear over the deck just being placed on the Target?

Just something for you to think about Martin. I have a couple of original Mission 'isoplats' that have Sorbothane feet, they have a kinda ceramic dish attached to the feet for them to sit in. Im wondering what difference they would make without the dishes!

[MartinT]

I used to have an Isoplat, Andr'e, but I don't remember getting ceramic dishes with it. One thing I am learning right now is the difference placement and feet make to the sound of a source component.

I'm tending very much towards the absorbent types (sorbothane etc.) rather than hard coupling (spikes, cones etc.) solutions.

[Jimbo]

I used to have an Isoplat, Andr'e, but I don't remember getting ceramic dishes with it. One thing I am learning right now is the difference placement and feet make to the sound of a source component.

I'm tending very much towards the absorbent types (sorbothane etc.) rather than hard coupling (spikes, cones etc.) solutions.

I think I am with you on this one Martin. Some materials I have seen recently drain vibration from components and certainly hard coupling devices like spikes may well stop isolation of components as they can reflect energy back. I think whatever materials used to Isolate or decouple a component from vibration either airborne or electrical need to prevent vibrational effects both ways.

[paskinn]

Best I don't get going on this subject...which I feel is often treated with little more than gadgets. For structural vibration you need a good vibration filter, ideally at around 3hz. After years of playing about, I now use Townsend and Hush isolation platforms, which use a spring/bellows approach. Unlike stuff like spikes and cones, it works by seriously reducing vibration rather than just changing the frequencies. You hear a 'calmer' and 'quieter' sound, probably because of less distortion in the high frequencies.
I dislike decks, well, pricey decks, without proper isolation designed-in. That just seems a cop-out, especially as speed stability can be excellent with decent, isolated, belt drive decks (stuff like the SMEs and Clearaudios measure as well or sometimes better than idler wheel decks and as good as fine direct drives). My preference is for sprung high-mass decks, and then add a 'hush' isolation platform as belt and braces.
You can never have too much proper isolation. As for airborne issues, do they exist in normal rooms? I find the problems are mainly structural vibration. Anyway, better stop before I get carried away with this subject.
Concrete floors are good too! BTW: the German Motus deck seems to have the best of both worlds, direct drive and a sprung suspension. Tested well at Hi Fi News too. Can we have more lateral thinking please.

[The Barbarian]

I used to have an Isoplat, Andr'e, but I don't remember getting ceramic dishes with it.

Mine are the original Hammertone Plats with the Grey ceramic dishes! Dont know about the Nextel coloured ones!





I'm tending very much towards the absorbent types (sorbothane etc.) rather than hard coupling (spikes, cones etc.) solutions.

Im happy enough with the Foculpods tbh.. try em they arnt that expensive

[MartinT]

Im happy enough with the Foculpods tbh.. try em they arnt that expensive

I used to use them, but the Isonoes are better.

[The Barbarian]

I wish i could get some 32.mm diameter to fit inside the 'Focus One' feet replace the springs & rubber pad arrangement

[Jimbo]

Ok so having reviewed all the posts regarding TT isolation I decided to put something into practise.
Currently my TT stands on a wood table which is on a carpeted concrete floor so quite a good start, however the table is old and not particularly flat! I decided to use some very dense fabricated wood laminate material mounted on Vibropods which I think are sorbathane.

The results were very good indeed. Detail and control is now much better and the clarity of the music improved, It seems like everything has been bought into focus. Bass improved but not as much as the fine detail. I might investigate with different materials but my first attempt has been pretty good and definitely a worthwhile improvement.

[MartinT]

Good stuff, James. Well executed sorbothane solutions can sound superb with turntables and CD players.

[AlanS]

My turntable is in an alcove so does not share any lateral vibrations from the main room boards. As I always sit perfectly still whilst listening I have never felt the need for isolation from structural vibrations. But there again I do not have a PA system for a HiFi and listen at what some may call moderate levels.

Having said that the turntable does sit on a heavy structure I made years ago in another home where it seemed to make a difference to the turntable I had then.

[Peter Galbavy]

I've ended up with soft Sorbothane pads with single at the front and two at the back to make the TT flat as my floor near the fireplace is quite slanted. Works well AFAICT. These one, with a Durometer rating of 30: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B009O2X6A6

[paskinn]

Wishful thinking is less effective than decent engineering. Stuff like sobothane can help, but it doesn't approach the results achievable with a properly engineered 'solution.' I have bags of sobothane pucks, bags of spikes/cones/boxes filled with a mixture of lead and sand/granite slabs and so on (and on.)
None of them approach the effect of (say) a Townsend sprung isolation plinth. They just don't. That's a fact. It's engineering, , nothing more, nothing less.
And if you ever get the chance, listen to what a laboratory grade device such as an air suspension Vibraplane can do. It's quite startling how much sweeter and 'quieter' the music gets. Shame they cost a lot, and they are also heavy and ugly. Apart from that....
But sobothane et al......you can do a lot better. Shame, but there it is.

[MikeMusic]

Wishful thinking is less effective than decent engineering. Stuff like sobothane can help, but it doesn't approach the results achievable with a properly engineered 'solution.' I have bags of sobothane pucks, bags of spikes/cones/boxes filled with a mixture of lead and sand/granite slabs and so on (and on.)
None of them approach the effect of (say) a Townsend sprung isolation plinth. They just don't. That's a fact. It's engineering, , nothing more, nothing less.
And if you ever get the chance, listen to what a laboratory grade device such as an air suspension Vibraplane can do. It's quite startling how much sweeter and 'quieter' the music gets. Shame they cost a lot, and they are also heavy and ugly. Apart from that....
But sobothane et al......you can do a lot better. Shame, but there it is.

How might this compare to an eye wateringly expensive Stillpoints rack ?

[MartinT]

Wishful thinking is less effective than decent engineering. Stuff like sobothane can help, but it doesn't approach the results achievable with a properly engineered 'solution.'

There are many sprung solutions out there: I use a Solid Tech Radius Duo sprung system rack. It has an oscillation mode of about 2Hz and isolates really well. Despite that, a switch to Isonoe feet on my turntable (a kind of elastomer band suspension) improved the isolation and sound quality further. Despite that, further addition of Techniboot sorbothane footers around the Isonoes improved the isolation and sound quality even more.

So don't dismiss a combination of isolation solutions.

[Ammonite Audio]

How might this compare to an eye wateringly expensive Stillpoints rack ?

Quite simply, a Stillpoints rack does not isolate, nor does it claim to. What the Stillpoints technology does is to channel potentially destructive energy away from the component in an ordered fashion, which is not at all the same as preventing energy from entering the component via its supporting platform/furniture. That may sound like utter foo but IME Stillpoints generally achieve a far more musical result than simple isolation. If I could be arrsed, I'd like to hear what Stillpoints could do in partnership with a truly effective isolation device like a Vibraplane.

[MikeMusic]

Quite simply, a Stillpoints rack does not isolate, nor does it claim to. What the Stillpoints technology does is to channel potentially destructive energy away from the component in an ordered fashion, which is not at all the same as preventing energy from entering the component via its supporting platform/furniture. That may sound like utter foo but IME Stillpoints generally achieve a far more musical result than simple isolation. If I could be arrsed, I'd like to hear what Stillpoints could do in partnership with a truly effective isolation device like a Vibraplane.
I'd like to try a Stillpoints sometime.
Be interesting to compare it to the Mana I have

[Ammonite Audio]

I'd like to try a Stillpoints sometime.
Be interesting to compare it to the Mana I have

If you'd like to try some plain Stillpoints (old cone type), I'm happy to lend you a set of 3.

[MikeMusic]

If you'd like to try some plain Stillpoints (old cone type), I'm happy to lend you a set of 3.

Yes please.
What do you use now ?

[Ammonite Audio]

Yes please.
What do you use now ?

I do use Stillpoints throughout my system, including an older style ESS rack.

[plastico]

Working from table down, my Rega P3 has Herbies Tenderfeet on a 1 inch granite slab, Herbies Fat Dots on a 2 inch maple board on a wall shelf with spikes for the board. A damping sheet called Dynamat is on the shelf frame, under the board and under the granite. Very quiet, and I get bass that distorts your vision!:)

Cheers, Doug

[paskinn]

I'm all if favour of a mixed bag of devices. My favourite is a Townsend sprung platform with a lead-filled box (20kgs) on top. Although, obviously, you need the right set of springs. In my case the combined weight of my turntable and lead-filled box is 75 kilos. So you need seriously butch springs.
I have never seriously tried spikes and 'still points' and suchlike. As has been pointed-out, it's a different approach, and presumably rather dependant on the vibration behaviour of the components?
The more you do, the better really, although it can start to look a bit weird. Well, very weird actually.

[Z-A]

Some of you may have seen and heard our set up at Whittlebury last year, including a 30 year old Sony PSB-80 turntable on our then prototype full isolation shelf. The sounds produced caught much attention, and deservedly so, the Bio-tracer performed wonderfully when floated in complete isolation by opposing magnetic levitation, fully height adjustable for levelling and concealed for a clean aesthetic. Using this level of support system really allows the vinyl replay to do its job and the result is outstanding fidelity indeed.

The final revision and production version of the HELIOS platform will be launched at this years T.H.E. Show, Newport Beach, L.A. May 29-June1st.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/21/enedunyh.jpg

[nat8808]

And if you ever get the chance, listen to what a laboratory grade device such as an air suspension Vibraplane can do. It's quite startling how much sweeter and 'quieter' the music gets. Shame they cost a lot, and they are also heavy and ugly. Apart from that....
But sobothane et al......you can do a lot better. Shame, but there it is.

Vibraplanes in their non-hifi branded versions aren't bad secondhand, just that they're more common in the states. You can a supposedly better design and without pneumatics, the Minus-k or something. About $2k plus shipping, lab eqipment but I think 6 Moons did a factory visit and review.

[nat8808]

Kinetic Systems Benchmate 2212 is the same as the Vibraplane 2212

http://www.ebay.com/itm/KINETIC-SYSTEMS-BENCHMATE-2212-VIBRATION-FREE-BENCH-PLATFORM-04-0727-WORK-TABLE-/260937207590

That one above has been for sale for about 10 months.. so obviously too high a price. Vibraplane 2212s are about $1800 secondhand. But they do need pumps (which switch in and out, don't think they run all the time).

Considering how much some people spend on racks, two of these supporting a large rack would probably be much better.

Here is the Minus-k review from 6 Moons: http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/minusk/platform.html

Bet the Kinetic Systems things could be picked up from lab liquidation sales - certainly have seen 50kg+ slate optical tables go for about £60 at auction.