New tonearm or MN Bearing?

[ChrisKemp]

Hi.

I would very much like a little help what I should do next for my 1210mk2.

I have done the following upgrades so far:

- Mains Cables R Us PSU.
- KAB Cardas rewired tonearm.
- KAB Fluid Damper.
- Sumiko HS12 headshell + aux weight
- Achromat 1200 mat
- Rek-O-Kut record weight
- Isonoe feet.

- Cartridge: Ortofon Rondo Red MC.

So I wonder, since I have the Fluid Damper + KAB rewired, how big of an upgrade would a new tonearm be?

The two tonearms I'm looking at is Jelco 750D and Origin Live Silver. That is if the Silver no longer has that funny looking fishing rod with a string weight; like Pro-ject has. I see it on some pictures on this forum, but the mk3 version on the Origin Live site does not?

Or is it a better upgrade at this point to go for a Mike New Bearing instead og a new tonearm?

My next question I really hope some in here can help me with. Because I also have to decide if I'm going to upgrade any further.

As my future upgrades will be MN Bearing, MN platter and a new tonearm the total price of my 1210mk2 will be somewhere between £2000-2500.

Would I get a better TT in that pricerange? Would it be better to sell my 1210mk2 now before I make any more upgrades? Would a Rega RP8 with Apheta, VPI, Linn Majik or maybe a JR Trans Rotor ZET-1 be a better TT??

I now have to deside if I shall continue upgrading my 1210 or sell it with the upgrades so far and look for something else? I have never heard a Rega RP8, VPI, Linn or JR Trans Rotor ZET-1 and that is why I ask :)

Hope you guys in here can guide me in the right direction :)

[prestonchipfryer]

As you have the KAB upgrades, etc. you should go for the MN bearing. It's a solid sound improvement over the stock bearing. Do not be tempted by cheaper rivals.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Youve saved money by doing some of the less expensive upgrades. Why not treat yourelf and buy the MN bearing. :eyebrows:

[Andrei]

I used to have a Marantz TT15 turntable. My modded Techie is better and by quite some margin. A TT should spin at the right speed, without variation, be immune to the various vibrations, and provide a good platform for the tonearm (& cartridge). The 1210 is top-drawer at the speed thing and this is why modded 1210s are so good - they address the weaknesses of the original, keep the strength and even that can be tweaked, as you have done with the power supply. Tonearm or Bearing? That's an easy one for me: the tonearm will give an improvement for sure but the bearing may not. I also did the KAB rewire but I am happy I went with the Jelco Arm.

Suggestion; open up your TT from the top and take out the existing bearing. Have a look at the the points of contact, ie the thrustpad and the end of the bearing that sits on it. Examine them through a magnifying glass and look for any signs of wear or unevenness. If your best buddy is a mechanical engineer he can help. If it is ok then you can service it yourself by pulling it completely apart, cleaning, and re-lubricating it. Then you can re-listen. If you still wish to get a MN bearing PM me as mine is for sale - I prefer my original bearing that was serviced.

A platter upgrade is also beneficial. I did my own upgrade and can confirm that this too is a worthwhile area of inquiry. The 1210 platter is very resonant so a replacement platter has to be a good thing.

[jky999]

I have the Mike New bearing and the OL Silver tonearm which replaced the SME 309. My SL1200 has: Mike New bearing, OL Silver tonearm, Pete Riggle's VTA adjuster, Lyra Delos, Funk Firm platter and mat, Paul Hynes psu and Isonoe feet. I like a dynamic and immediate presentation. I installed the Mike New bearing when I had the SME 309. IMHO, the OL Silver was quite an improvement over the SME 309 and one of the bigger improvements I experienced while going down this path. I'm running this with an EAR 868.

The OL Silver still has the fishing line anti-skate mechanism which doesn't fit under the 1200's dust cover unless you let the cover compress the wand a bit. Having said all of that, I'd probably opt to get the table itself up to my highest intended level before swapping out the arm. I think the arm swap will then really shine or be more apparent. I'm very happy with the combo. If I made any changes, it would be to a better OL arm or TransFi arm.

Sorry to muddy the water.

[Nigel]

Andrei,

You have made me wonder about trying the standard bearing again. I have read your thoughts in the past where you considered the Mike New bearing to offer no improvements.

[costerdock]

I have the Mike New bearing and the OL Silver tonearm which replaced the SME 309. My SL1200 has: Mike New bearing, OL Silver tonearm, Pete Riggle's VTA adjuster, Lyra Delos, Funk Firm platter and mat, Paul Hynes psu and Isonoe feet. I like a dynamic and immediate presentation. I installed the Mike New bearing when I had the SME 309. IMHO, the OL Silver was quite an improvement over the SME 309 and one of the bigger improvements I experienced while going down this path. I'm running this with an EAR 868.

The OL Silver still has the fishing line anti-skate mechanism which doesn't fit under the 1200's dust cover unless you let the cover compress the wand a bit. Having said all of that, I'd probably opt to get the table itself up to my highest intended level before swapping out the arm. I think the arm swap will then really shine or be more apparent. I'm very happy with the combo. If I made any changes, it would be to a better OL arm or TransFi arm.

Sorry to muddy the water.

Wow two Mike New bearings in AZ - cool! I'd probably go the bearing route especially if you are happy with the arm - my arm works well with my best cart which is a Grado Ref Master 1 - that is all I care about.

Thanks,

Chris

[costerdock]

The bearing was a tough call for me since my bearing was brand spanking new (I bought my table new) and I did oil it regularly. Not a huge night and day difference - but definitely something there - and something more did come about after a few months and I re-oiled it - the table just sounds so damn good. It all adds up - and I certainly do not regret the purchase.

Good luck!

[Marco]

Andrei,

You have made me wonder about trying the standard bearing again. I have read your thoughts in the past where you considered the Mike New bearing to offer no improvements.

Well, that completely flies in the face of the results I've obtained with the MN bearing, where I've found it significantly improves the performance of the T/T, notably reducing the 'noisefloor' and making bass deeper and more tuneful (amongst also improving important areas of the musical presentation).

If installed properly and heard through a genuinely transparent and high quality system, the difference between the MN and the stock bearing should NOT be subtle!!

:exactly:

Chris, I'll get to your post properly later :)

Marco.

[ChrisKemp]

I used to have a Marantz TT15 turntable. My modded Techie is better and by quite some margin. A TT should spin at the right speed, without variation, be immune to the various vibrations, and provide a good platform for the tonearm (& cartridge). The 1210 is top-drawer at the speed thing and this is why modded 1210s are so good - they address the weaknesses of the original, keep the strength and even that can be tweaked, as you have done with the power supply. Tonearm or Bearing? That's an easy one for me: the tonearm will give an improvement for sure but the bearing may not. I also did the KAB rewire but I am happy I went with the Jelco Arm.

Suggestion; open up your TT from the top and take out the existing bearing. Have a look at the the points of contact, ie the thrustpad and the end of the bearing that sits on it. Examine them through a magnifying glass and look for any signs of wear or unevenness. If your best buddy is a mechanical engineer he can help. If it is ok then you can service it yourself by pulling it completely apart, cleaning, and re-lubricating it. Then you can re-listen. If you still wish to get a MN bearing PM me as mine is for sale - I prefer my original bearing that was serviced.

A platter upgrade is also beneficial. I did my own upgrade and can confirm that this too is a worthwhile area of inquiry. The 1210 platter is very resonant so a replacement platter has to be a good thing.

Thank you Andrei. A very helpful reply. My last order from KAB i also ordered the spindle/ bearing oil and the bearing wax to melt under the bearing base. When I soldered the PSU wires I also took out the original bearing. I cleaned it, inspected it (looked ok because my 1210mk2 has always been a hifi deck and used very little), melted the wax from KAB with a hair dryer and put the bearing in the hot wax. It is just in my head that I cannot understand that a MN Bearing will make such a huge improvement over the original. I get it when the original is worn out or has been tortured as a DJ deck, but mine seemed pretty ok. Cleaned, oiled and put in this warm wax as base, is it worth it? And as I understand it was'nt worth it in your techy, Andrei.

You suggest tonearm and that the Jelco 750D is a much better arm (in SQ) even with the KAB rewired and KAB Fluid Damper.

[ChrisKemp]

I have the Mike New bearing and the OL Silver tonearm which replaced the SME 309. My SL1200 has: Mike New bearing, OL Silver tonearm, Pete Riggle's VTA adjuster, Lyra Delos, Funk Firm platter and mat, Paul Hynes psu and Isonoe feet. I like a dynamic and immediate presentation. I installed the Mike New bearing when I had the SME 309. IMHO, the OL Silver was quite an improvement over the SME 309 and one of the bigger improvements I experienced while going down this path. I'm running this with an EAR 868.

The OL Silver still has the fishing line anti-skate mechanism which doesn't fit under the 1200's dust cover unless you let the cover compress the wand a bit. Having said all of that, I'd probably opt to get the table itself up to my highest intended level before swapping out the arm. I think the arm swap will then really shine or be more apparent. I'm very happy with the combo. If I made any changes, it would be to a better OL arm or TransFi arm.

Sorry to muddy the water.
This is all very helpful info indeed. I really like the looks of the OL Silver and all the great reviews it has gotten, but I just hate that "fishing line". Is your OL Silver the mk3 version. Because on the OL website it looks like there is a new mechanism that has replaced the little rod? Maybe I'll email OL and ask :)

I must also say that with the upgrades so far, the 1210 is SO much better now. Cleaner and tighter base and much better midrange. I think the synergy between the PSU, the Achromat 1200 with record weight and the Isonoe did that. But I must say that the Isonoe made it all worse until I put the Isonoe feet on sorbotane. Now it sounds great.

The Fluid Damper is on its way from KAB and I should get it by next week. That is also why I wonder if I should keep the original arm for now and get MN Bearing.

In the last five months I have bougt the 1210 with all my so far upgrades, new Riaa with psu, new cartridge pluss a pair of ProAc Response D25 in cherry. They were not cheap :) So if I buy either a MN Bearing or a Jelco/ Origin Live the other has to wait a long while until my next purchase :) My wife is wathng me closely :)

I would like my next upgrade to be really worth while, so to speak.

[twotone]

Hi Chris, I've done most of the suggested upgrades of the more reasonably priced items but I've not done the bearing or platter upgrade and the biggest single upgrade was the arm change with arm board.

I wish that I had done that first, the sound performance with the new (old arm) wasn't subtle it was huge.

The arm I decided on was a mint Micro Seiki MA-202 complete with HS-202 headshell as recommended by Rob and a couple of poster who had gone that route.

I read on one forum, can't recall which now, a poster saying that he had tried the Jelco arm and loved it but when he tried the MS arm he sold the Jelco straight away.

I've never heard the Jelco arm so can't comment on the sound of one on a Technics but the MS arm is fantastic to use, I've been switching carts about all week trying to decide which one to keep and the MS arm makes changing them so easy.

To zero the arm for a particular cart is so easy then dialing in the tracking weight is also so so simple, the MS arm is just a beautifully designed piece of equipment and very elegant it also looks fantastic on the SL1200.

I've no intention of spending any more money on a bearing or platter, I just don't see the point of spending another £1200 or so for what? A marginally better sound?

I would rather spend the money on a good cart and more records.

Tony

[WOStantonCS100]

This is all very helpful info indeed. I really like the looks of the OL Silver and all the great reviews it has gotten, but I just hate that "fishing line". Is your OL Silver the mk3 version. Because on the OL website it looks like there is a new mechanism that has replaced the little rod? Maybe I'll email OL and ask :)

I must also say that with the upgrades so far, the 1210 is SO much better now. Cleaner and tighter base and much better midrange. I think the synergy between the PSU, the Achromat 1200 with record weight and the Isonoe did that. But I must say that the Isonoe made it all worse until I put the Isonoe feet on sorbotane. Now it sounds great.

The Fluid Damper is on its way from KAB and I should get it by next week. That is also why I wonder if I should keep the original arm for now and get MN Bearing.

In the last five months I have bougt the 1210 with all my so far upgrades, new Riaa with psu, new cartridge pluss a pair of ProAc Response D25 in cherry. They were not cheap :) So if I buy either a MN Bearing or a Jelco/ Origin Live the other has to wait a long while until my next purchase :) My wife is wathng me closely :)

I would like my next upgrade to be really worth while, so to speak.

The MN bearing is not a slight improvement, IMHO. It's pretty huge BUT in a way that is "easy to miss" if you're not paying attention; because, it's not about what the bearing adds, per se, but what it takes away and allows to come through. When the noise floor is dropped resolution and clarity across the frequency spectrum increases. I have, ahem, a few 1200s, and so was able to do a comparison of a 1200 with and without the MN bearing. My ears are so accustomed to what the MN bearing "doesn't" bring to the table that I have even relegated my re-plinthed SL-1500MK2 to a place of lesser importance. I then transferred the Trans-Fi T3 to the 1200 with the MN bearing. The tonearm change was more of a "slap in the face" change (over the stock arm); however, my feeling is that the MN bearing is a pillar upon which a great tonearm/cart combo can really shine. In other words, if the bearing is lowering your resolution, the arm/cart can only go so far. In short, the T3 arm sounds even better on the TT with the MN bearing.

[ChrisKemp]

That is very interesting! It isn't what the bearing adds but what it takes away. I haven't thought about it like that before.

For those of you that got a big improvement of SQ after changing out the original arm; did any of you have it Cardas rewired by KAB. Because that made a huge improvement in my system. That and when I changed out the original stiff headshell cables to Cardas. I have tried to put the old headshell cables back on the Ortofon Rondo Red MC and the sound was clearly suffering. Bass got boomy and the sound was muddy and unclear. Changed back to Cardas headshell cables again and all was back in place.

Put the KAB Fluid Damper on that rewired arm with new headshell cables and the sound is improved again. I have read that with the damper it is like with the MN Bearing. The Fluid Damper does not add anything, but takes away noise, tighten up bass and make blacker background and better room for the midrange. A friend of mine did the Fluid Damper on his MK5G and the improvement in SQ was not small he told me.

My friend and I have written two hifi gurus in Norway asking about the original arm. They said the 1210-arm is pretty good when it is rewired and fluid dampened. The bearings in the Technics arm is of high quality and it can take high quality cartridges, all the way up to Lyra Delos and Ortofon Cadenza Red/ Blue.

I hope that some with experience with KAB rewire + KAB Fluid Damper can say if the improvement with a new arm still is that big? It would be interesting to know if the improvement in SQ after a tonearm change is because of the new tonearm, or is it because the original headshell-/ tonearm cables are of such crappy quality.

[prestonchipfryer]

Well, that completely flies in the face of the results I've obtained with the MN bearing, where I've found it significantly improves the performance of the T/T, notably reducing the 'noisefloor' and making bass deeper and more tuneful (amongst also improving important areas of the musical presentation).

If installed properly and heard through a genuinely transparent and high quality system, the difference between the MN and the stock bearing should NOT be subtle!!

:exactly:

Chris, I'll get to your post properly later :)

Marco.

Absolutely. The improvement is startling with the MN bearing. :eyebrows:

[Oldpinkman]

Chris. Whilst a bearing might contribute subtle but important improvements an arm has the ability to sound obviously different. Your comments about rewiring the standard arm and that arm being "high quality" reflect what seems to be a common simplification of arms that fails to understand how much they earn their name "tonearm". To work without defects with a low compliance moving coil cartridge whether big bucks "high quality" or small bucks " ordinary", the arm needs not to rattle anywhere from the relatively high energy fed to it by the stiff compliance and higher tracking force (good bearings, headshell joint) and not to risk a main system resonance too near the audio frequencies (high enough effective mass). If it has those 2 qualities it will be high enough quality to work without defects with any of those cartridges. It could still sound like a pile of poo, or rather fail to allow the qualities of the cartridge to to be apparent. The quality of wires used will also have some impact, but only to the extent of allowing any signal generated in the the cartridge to be transmitted more faithfully. The wires won't change the signals generated. But arm resonances, primarily often main tube resonances, but also headshell and counterweight resonances will change the signal produced by that cartridge in the first place by affecting some frequencies (TONES) more than others. Hence TONEarm. And to change those resonances you need to change the construction of the components I referred to. If you have an arm with an s shaped metal tube and a detachable headshell it will be mostly similar in that regard to any other s shaped arm of the same materials and construction. There is a well known definition of stupidity which is to keep doing the same thing and expect a different outcome. Good arm design, controlling those resonances, can make a huge difference to an arms sound. Not just "warm" or "bright" but detail gets lost in the frequencies which are affected.

[ChrisKemp]

I understand I have much to learn when it comes to tonearms :)

So will another S-shaped arm like the Jelco 750D sound just about the same as a standard 12xx arm with fluid damper? A Jelco 750D is in my price range. I could go with the OL Silver, but only if it is alot better than the Jelco.

But who has any experience with the KAB Fluid Damper + rewired Technics arm in here? Will a Jelco 750D be to small of an upgrade? Because if I have to buy a SME 309 or Funk FX1200 to get a real upgrade in SQ then I have to keep what I have now. Just too much money for me.

[Ammonite Audio]

A Jelco SA-750D will give you noticeably better control over the music than the standard arm, which (IME) does tend to get a bit flustered when the music gets more demanding. But that said, I'd go for the MN bearing first, because it addresses the main problem with the stock Technics bearing, eg it has very little structural integrity. In simple words, the Technics bearing can flex, but on top of that, the thin chassis to which it is loosely attached can flex too. When you consider how small are the stylus movements in the groove, clearly you do not want extraneous movement in the platter/bearing/chassis interface. Mike's bearing works so well because not only is it a very good bearing, but also because it is structurally very strong, and imparts strength and integrity to the turntable's chassis (even more so with his base plate). I am no particular fan of the SL-1200/1210, but I did go through these upgrades and can recommend both MN bearing and a better arm, if you like what the deck does and can afford the outlay.

[Oldpinkman]

I understand I have much to learn when it comes to tonearms :)

So will another S-shaped arm like the Jelco 750D sound just about the same as a standard 12xx arm with fluid damper? A Jelco 750D is in my price range. I could go with the OL Silver, but only if it is alot better than the Jelco.

But who has any experience with the KAB Fluid Damper + rewired Technics arm in here? Will a Jelco 750D be to small of an upgrade? Because if I have to buy a SME 309 or Funk FX1200 to get a real upgrade in SQ then I have to keep what I have now. Just too much money for me.

The Jelco will not be the same as the Technics, as it will not be the same as my Micro Seiki or Linn LV-V. It will just not be as different as the other arms you mention, or say a Linn Ittok, or Mission 774 (particularly the latter). I can't find a resonance plot for it, but I would bet the inheritance it has some substantial peaks on it. Wiring and fluid damping can't affect those (the damping affects the other resonance - the mass/compliance resonance) and would mainly help with cartridges who have a somewhat higher compliance.

your problem, like mine with the cartridges and the R700 speakers, is there is no substitute for hearing them in your own system. Other peoples opinions are I am sure genuine, but I find hard to relate to my own experiences often. There are rarely easy answers. Most of us who are happy with choices we made, will recommend them to others, but there is no substitute for your own experience. The Kef's are a great example - I like them, but I am surprised by some of the review comments I have heard about them, now I have them in my own system. Good luck with arms and bearings! Bear in mind most (but not all) people commenting on the bearing have changed it once, had no opportunity to go back and compare with the original, and will be justifying to themselves having blown £600 or thereabouts. :)

[CageyH]

I refitted my standard bearing before committing to the Mike New version, and I still have the Mike New version fitted. On it's own it makes a minor difference, but as posted elsewhere on this forum, it gels all the other parts together. The most noticeable difference for me came in the tonearm changes, but I went from a standard arm to an Audio Origami RB251.

If you are looking at an OL Silver, another worth contemplating might be the Audiomods Technics arm?

[ChrisKemp]

Thank you Kevin and all of you that has enlightened me :) I will check out the arms you mention, Kevin :)

[6L6]

I have a very modified stock bearing (full circumference base, oil bath, new thrust plate and bottom) that was made by another member, and it's completely wonderful. It took quite some time to run in, but now that it's seated the improvements are fantastic. Much more tuneful, better PRaT, less dark, more music. I am very happy with it.

The Mike New bearing is likely even more amazing. :) :) :)

[WOStantonCS100]

But who has any experience with the KAB Fluid Damper + rewired Technics arm in here?

My secondary 1200 has a KAB Fluid Damper. That is a very nice improvement in trackability and seems to make the anti-skate more "accurate" (considering the changing nature of anti-skating forces from beginning to the end of any given record). For a stock arm I doubt I'd be without it. I have only partially rewired things: removed the tonearm PCB and straight wired the existing tonearm cables to a KAB turret board. I then used much better interconnects. Again, the sound was much improved. I'd rather avoid a "do cables make a difference" argument; but, I can only imagine that swapping out the existing tonearm cable to Cardas, or other high quality wire/headshell leads, will also up the ante. However, my experience is still that without changing the bearing, these upgrades "hit a wall". Honestly, though, I wouldn't fret too much. The upgrade process should be fun and will be revealing regardless of the order of upgrades. If you're going for max potential of the 1200, all available upgrade paths should be investigated, funds providing.

[costerdock]

Again - I have the M5G arm - that doesn't need a re-wire and the KAB damper - you definitely need to check it out- I think you will like it.

Good luck.

[Andrei]

Lots of different advice Chris - I think that is a healthy thing. Also do check this out : http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?29446-Stock-arm-gone
This is twotone's thread about the Micro Seiki - well worth a look. One thing I like about the Jelco, Micro Seiki, Ortofon arms - and modded original arm for that matter - they are in keeping with the original design. At least as far as looks go! Take your time because as your friends have mentioned the modded arm is pretty good.

As an aside there was a top turntable designer who prototyped an improvement for the tecchie arm by changing the arm-tube only! I'm over-simplifying but there are recent threads on that too. It is now too late to purchase such a thing but the design concepts make for fascinating reading.

PS did you follow the events in Chennai?

[Oldpinkman]

As an aside there was a top turntable designer who prototyped an improvement for the tecchie arm by changing the arm-tube only! I'm over-simplifying but there are recent threads on that too. It is now too late to purchase such a thing but the design concepts make for fascinating reading.



Fascinating on several grounds. The carbon fibre solution was apparantly a bust (on all FX versions). I think I know why, but I'm not convinced even Arthur knows for sure. Also, I think I have already blown the secret, so it won't hurt to do it again, that he tried just bracing a standard S SL1200 tube with F.X technology and that was a bust too. It was unbelievably fiddly apparantly, he had been trying for weeks because he wanted to do an AK special on me (making me think I was listening to one thing, when in fact it was another). He was apparantly showing off his Sony XL55 cartridge, but had mounted it on what looked like a stock SL1200 with Funk platter (strata) which actually had the F.X S technics arm on. I wiped the smile off his face when my PT, FXR, Goldring 1024 won the contest.

Again, not sure why. Is the additional length of the S a problem? Does the concept only work properly in a straight tube? Was it the headshell or headshell joint (my own personal prejudice)? I doubt very much it was the bearing assembly - I haven't yet heard one of the rare FX1200's but may soon. As an aside, I think there may be a chance that project will be revived at some stage, if there is any demand. You are probably still looking at around £1000 to mod the standard arm into an FX1200 at full retail. But its not number one priority for Funk right now - which is of course to sort out my PT!! :ner:

[Marco]

There's so much to add to this discussion, including how a KAB, Cardas-rewired and fluid-damped Technics arm, compares with a Jelco 750 (as I have used both extensively on my SL-1210), not to mention addressing the comparison queries with a modified Technics against other T/Ts, raised by Chris in his opening post, it'll take a while to type out, but I'll get to it later! :)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

The PT is an old man's turntable :D

[Clive197]

Hi Chris

Putting my two pennith in. The Origin Live arm is a great choice even with the fishing line. I've run the Silver Mk3 now for about 8 months and am delighted with it. The lid can still be used without touching the bias arm by slightly bending it ( as advised by OL).
I was playing with a Jelco Arm yesterday and in discussion with a man who purports to know, it is still a budget arm that will give a slight improvement over the Technics arm due in the main to the cable and fluid damping. The OL Silver is a better arm than a SME Mk V according to David Price's reviews, but I would take that with a certain amount of salt. It is NOT a Rega arm as some people think as everything is made by OL who only use the lift/lower mech and arm-rest from a Rega arm.

Clive

[chris@panteg]

What about one of the Audionote arms on a Techie? I've heard some good things about them of late.

Outperforming an sme v so I'm told, certainly enjoy listening to AN turntables at Whittlebury.

[ChrisKemp]

Very interesting to read all of your posts and how much you guys know about tonearms! Yesterday I came home from our winter trip and in my mailbox was a Sumiko HS-12 headshell with Sumiko cables, aux weight and KAB Fluid Damper. Off with the standard headshell and also off with the Cardas headshell cables. Great improvement indeed. More detail and better bass as in tighter bass. Today I mounted the Fluid Damper from KAB. Easy to mount and filled the tray with just under half full.

Together with the KAB tonearm that has been rewired and with the new KAB PCB for tonearm wires, I can finally say that I am very satisfied with the tonearm :) I might get a little better sound from another tonearm, but I think it's going to cost too much for me at this point. And at this point it's not worth it.

I bought the 1210mk2 in november last year and have upgraded it alot! Now I'm going to enjoy it before I make any further upgrades. BUT thanks to many of you in here, my next upgrade will be the Mike New Bearing. I think it will be a better upgrade than a new tonearm since my tonearm is no longer a stock arm anyway :)

I'm listening to Tracy Chapman - Crossroads right now and my ProAc D25 just sound so great!. It can alway be a little better, but I also don't have the best cartridge around (Ortofon Rondo Red MC). It's an ok allrounder, but that is it. I have an offer on a Graham Slee Reflex M with PSU1 and Music Maker mk3 from Cartridge Man. I may also go for Ortofon 2M Black, Ortofon Quintet Black or AT33EV. But for now I will enjoy some of the original LPs I just bought from Ebay :)

And to all of you that has a standard 1200/1210 tonearm... You will get a whole new arm with the KAB upgrades. Bass is deeper and tighter, midrange clearer and treble is sweeter. Some may say that the original arm is the weak link of the turntable. But before anyone spend £500-1000 on a new tonearm, you should try KAB. It is nothing like the original arm any more and I still have some money to buy more new LPs :):)

[Tarzan]

Agreed, l have the Sumiko headshell/ KAB damper on my second Techie and it is a very nice combo!:)

[Marco]

Hi Chris,

Unfortunately I haven't had time to contribute to this thread, as I would've liked, but I'm glad that the KAB upgrades have worked out well for you :)

I have a lot of time for Kevin and his excellent (and cost effective) modifications for the SL-1200/1210. He's a great guy to deal with and *truly* knows the Technics inside out! The KAB mods started me on my journey to audio nirvana, with my Techy, when I imported a fully modified one (including an SL-1210MK5G itself) from the US to the UK, in 2007.

I had the stock arm Cardas-rewired, by Kevin, and fitted with the (as you now know) very effective fluid damper. I also got what was then the first available regulated off-board PSU for the Technics (PS-1200), produced by Kevin, and shown below:


http://s560.photobucket.com/albums/ss49/aos_images/marco_system/2009-01/aosm18.jpg


Other mods included the KAB (threaded) clamp, which involves Kevin painstakingly drilling out the T/T's spindle, in order for the clamp to screw down into it! :eek:

I also got the strobe light disabler mod fitted, and he supplied me with my first set of Isonoes. All of the above came in one big box of goodies.... Yes, you could say it was a rather exciting day when it arrived from the States - especially as I had no idea how well (or otherwise) it would all work, which of course it did (amazingly well) and, as they say, the rest is history... :eyebrows:

I think you're making a smart move by getting the MN bearing next. It is unquestionably one of the key modifications that allows the Technics to 'grow up' and become a genuinely high-end turntable.

Anyway, have fun and enjoy the music! :cool:

Marco.

[ChrisKemp]

Thank you so much, Marco, for taking time to answer my questions :) I read your posts twice, because I always learn something new :stalks:

I must say that after I got the Sumiko HS-12 and an azimut level gauge, the Rondo Red is really playing well. Also the headshell cables was an upgrade from Cardas.

The VTA and azimut was way off. I had to dial the arm base all the way down to 0-1 to level the headshell. Could be because of the 5 mm Achromat 1200, but the techy manual suggested I should dial the VTA to 3,5. I settled on just under 1 and the sound is now fantastic. I really like the SUT from Xindak MC10 too (1:10) so now I have 5mV into the MM.

I trust now afte all I have read that the Mike New Bearing, even if it is expensive, it is worth the upgrade.

Right now I'm listening to my new LP that I bought from the US and received today. Tchaikovski 1812 TELARC 1979. Wow:eyebrows: