View Full Version : BTE passive pre-amp plus Amptastic Mini-T amplifier
After an enquiry from Paul (Twickers) today in my gallery thread I dug out the old Mini-T from storage and slotted it into the system in place of the Quad 306 and ever since the two tiny wonders have been producing sweet music together through the Skibo's. Really, this is a match made in heaven and thus I heartily recommend this pairing if you happen to own efficient and easy to drive speakers. I reckon a Tisbury/Mini-T pairing would perform just as well, there must be a few members out there with examples of both who might want to give this a try... ;)
brian2957
16-02-2014, 23:48
HAH ! I think you may have started a new trend here Dave . I'm presently using a Temple Audio Bantam Gold and may try this option when funds allow .
The Grand Wazoo
16-02-2014, 23:51
Do you not think that the happy marriage there may be actually between the amp and speakers, rather than between the pre and the amp Dave?
Do you not think that the happy marriage there may be actually between the amp and speakers, rather than between the pre and the amp Dave?
I can't rule that out of course Chris and have no way of checking this just now with the DM2's being out of action of course, however I'm not absolutely convinced that what you suggest is the case Chris. When I have sorted the DM2's I intend to find out for sure though. In the meantime others may be able to put this to bed for us... ;)
The Grand Wazoo
17-02-2014, 00:05
Well, you could try firing your CD player directly into the amp and cutting the pre out of the equation. It may sound better - I just think it unlikely that a system with two passively connected pots can sound better than one.
Well, you could try firing your CD player directly into the amp and cutting the pre out of the equation. It may sound better - I just think it unlikely that a system with two passively connected pots can sound better than one.
Worth a try although I ain't doing it tonight dude, I'll give it a go tomorrow though out of curiosity. It's not a configuration that can stand in my system as I need a pre to run my phonostage into... ;)
walpurgis
17-02-2014, 00:42
Whilst I'm not that keen on passive pre-amps that use just a pot (stepped attenuators seem better), most people forget that nearly all of us listen thorough a pot to control our volume levels anyway, so it makes little difference overall. The obvious thing is the active amplification in a regular pre-amp, valve or solid state. There definitely seems an added weight when NOT using a passive 'pot' pre-amp. Mind you, I've been using a TVC pre-amp for a while now. That's a whole new ball game! (neutrality, weight, no colouration, no bass softness, no sting at the top, total openness, the lot really)
Mind you, I've been using a TVC pre-amp for a while now. That's a whole new ball game! (neutrality, weight, no colouration, no bass softness, no sting at the top, total openness, the lot really)
Yes I get the same from my NVA passive. The Tisbury sort of showed me what was possible with a passive pre (that extra veil lifted was a revelation) but it did lack bass drive and attack on percussion instruments. I tried to talk myself into living with it as everything else it did was so good, but in the end I couldn't. Plus there was no room to manauvere on the volume - it was either silent, loud or very loud. I don't think I would move away from passive now, okay you need to get a separate phono stage but that is no big deal there are dozens of reasonably priced ones to choose from.
walpurgis
17-02-2014, 10:47
Yes I get the same from my NVA passive. The Tisbury sort of showed me what was possible with a passive pre (that extra veil lifted was a revelation) but it did lack bass drive and attack on percussion instruments. I tried to talk myself into living with it as everything else it did was so good, but in the end I couldn't. Plus there was no room to manauvere on the volume - it was either silent, loud or very loud. I don't think I would move away from passive now, okay you need to get a separate phono stage but that is no big deal there are dozens of reasonably priced ones to choose from.
It's not a TVC unit though Martin. There's a big difference.
It's not a TVC unit though Martin. There's a big difference.
Well I can't comment as I have not tried a TVC but then you have not tried my NVA so I don't see how you can claim that blind.
Plus there was no room to manauvere on the volume...
That sounds a little painful, and possibly may result in a nasty rash... Did you, per chance, mean manoeuvre?
;)
Marco.
walpurgis
17-02-2014, 13:34
Well I can't comment as I have not tried a TVC but then you have not tried my NVA so I don't see how you can claim that blind.
I'm not making a "claim". I've used high quality pot and stepped attenuator passive pre-amps and my TVC has given by far the best results with every type of power amplification I've used. Check out the 'Music First' TVC pre-amp reviews. By the way a TVC unit has gain, true passives don't.
I'm using this:
11587
The two humps are the transformer housings.
I have checked out Music First previously - I think on your recommendation, Geoff. But the cheaper model is £1700 plus VAT. I could buy one but it is a hell of a lot of money to spend and I like to get bargains. It may well work better than the NVA and I'm not doubting that you have the experience to extrapolate from the particular to the general, just that I like to hear these things for myself before I can say for certain.
neutrality, weight, no colouration, no bass softness, no sting at the top, total openness
Which is exactly what I get with the BTE passive-pre and it's stepped attenuator Geoff and all for the princely sum of £89.99. I'm struggling to understand why I'd need or even want a TVC unit under the circumstances... ;)
Incidentally, I tried running my CDP straight into the Mini-T today as suggested by Chris, it didn't stay that way for long though as it sounded a little weedy in comparison with my usual configuration. Once the DM2's are sorted I will substitute them for the Skibo's to hear what's what. As things stand though I'm not sure which speakers and amp will be staying and which will be given the old heave ho. One things for certain, one of the combo's will have to go as I can't afford to keep them both, I need funds for new flooring for the kitchen.
walpurgis
17-02-2014, 17:49
I'm struggling to understand why I'd need or even want a TVC unit under the circumstances... ;)
Try and get a listen to one.
Try and get a listen to one.
Not likely to ever happen Geoff for many reasons, not least of which is cost so really there would be no point in me auditioning one. The Classé pre I ran previously was an excellent active pre which also had a stepped attenuator and yet the BTE 'out slams' the DR5 significantly. I am very, very happy with what I have now dude... :)
walpurgis
17-02-2014, 21:34
Well, should you ever be in this area you'd be welcome to a listen over a cuppa. :)
Which is exactly what I get with the BTE passive-pre and it's stepped attenuator Geoff and all for the princely sum of £89.99. I'm struggling to understand why I'd need or even want a TVC unit under the circumstances... ;)
Incidentally, I tried running my CDP straight into the Mini-T today as suggested by Chris, it didn't stay that way for long though as it sounded a little weedy in comparison with my usual configuration. Once the DM2's are sorted I will substitute them for the Skibo's to hear what's what. As things stand though I'm not sure which speakers and amp will be staying and which will be given the old heave ho. One things for certain, one of the combo's will have to go as I can't afford to keep them both, I need funds for new flooring for the kitchen.
I have BTE on order hopefully it will be here next week and I will comment on my findings.
brian2957
23-02-2014, 12:01
Nice one Andy . What will you be using it with ? I've also ordered one to try with my Bantam Gold . Please keep us posted and I'll do the same.
Power amp is a Leema Hydra 2, sources will be Sonos/Laptop into Chevron Paradox dac.
wee tee cee
19-03-2014, 19:37
I have ordered one with twin blue alps mono pots, silver wiring and just the one input. Just over £90!!! I run temple audio mono blocks/kel 84 monos into 63s- one of which is a bit quieter so it needs to be placed further into the room to balance things up. Recent purchase from one of the members let me run two ss amps either side utilising the volume pot to achieve balance hence the idea.
I run a Tisbury audio passive which I cant fault, so will be interested to see what the BTE sounds like hopefully apart from letting me balance up the statics imbalance not alot.
I find my BTE to be a tad more open and it has more bottom end grunt than the Tizzie Tony, I had both here for a while btw. Mine has a stepped Dale pot which, according to Anthony, gives improved resolution over the ALPS Blue Velvet so if it is not too late it may be worth amending your build (The Steppers are cheaper too incidentally) ;)
I understand why you have chosen the configuration you have however two volume controls would drive me absolutely bonkers... :lol:
wee tee cee
19-03-2014, 20:38
Dave,
8 different monos needing fed.....the blue alps are mono pots. The tizzie is a keeper. the BTE will let me balance up the wonky statics!!!!!
Dave,
8 different monos needing fed.....the blue alps are mono pots. The tizzie is a keeper. the BTE will let me balance up the wonky statics!!!!!
I understand why you have chosen the configuration you have however two volume controls would drive me absolutely bonkers... :lol:
Did you miss this? :ner: :D
Eight monos? Bleedin' nora.... :)
wiicrackpot
20-03-2014, 00:02
Dave, just a quick report back to say my friend is absolutely over the moon with the BTE recco from here,
it brought the Quad 303 to another level thanks to you. :)
Dave, just a quick report back to say my friend is absolutely over the moon with the BTE recco from here,
it brought the Quad 303 to another level thanks to you. :)
Excellent news Andy, that's a combo I'd like to hear sometime particularly with the DM2's hung off the back :D
Just thought I would update this thread
I have had my BTE passive here for a couple of weeks now, initial impressions are that it is very open and detailed and the bass is better than the Tisbury that I had on trial.
Ultimately though I felt something was still missing from the overall sound quality mainly a lack of oomph and power/drive to bass guitars so today I put my Chevron Audio pre back in the system which is a Tentlabs passive attenuator with a Chevron active buffer output stage and bang the sound was back.
All the clarity of the BTE plus the drive and power to move the music along.
So the BTE will not be staying, it is a good pre for the money but I guess plain passives are just not for me, maybe a good TVC could change my mind.
Not all passive pres are created equal but I suppose the partnering kit will also play a part.
jandl100
03-05-2014, 07:37
Yes, ime TVC preamps will give you good dynamics and drive, but (?) all the TVCs I have heard (quite a few) have a somewhat warm/smooth sound which is not the kind of sound I'm personally attracted to.
Maybe dumb question time but how do you turn the Mini T into a power amp? Is there some sort of jumper arrangement inside the box? I seem to recall reading something along those lines but can't for the life of me find it now, and it might have related to the Mini 1. If not then I suppose it's a case of just turning the volume up to full? When that's done presumably it just makes a clean bypass of the volume pot?
... so not such a dumb question after all, it seems to have foxed the forum :rolleyes:
Anybody have any ideas?
brian2957
30-05-2014, 10:48
Steve, you can't turn the mini T into a power amp . Well not easily anyway as it involves some desoldering of tiny electronic componebts I believe. The new Amptastic amp can be turned into a power amp easily and I think it comes with instructions for doing this . I was using a Temple Audio Bantam Gold as a power amp for a while with the volume control up fully . I now use one of their power amps which doesn't have a volume control . So the short answer is no.
Stratmangler
30-05-2014, 10:49
Just turn it up all the way.
The volume potentiomer is still in circuit, it's just attenuating the signal less.
Needless question really :)
Stratmangler
30-05-2014, 10:56
I find my BTE to be a tad more open and it has more bottom end grunt than the Tizzie
I have to take exception here Dave.
How can something passive have more grunt?
It can only remove from the original signal.
If you'd said it has a less damaging effect on the signal then I wouldn't be commenting
Thanks Brian, that's the info I was after.
The Grand Wazoo
30-05-2014, 16:56
Steve, you can't turn the mini T into a power amp .
I disagree.
It is a power amp. It's just like many other power amps with a gain control - Quad have made them, EAR, almost all pro amps.......it's a long list.
As Chris says, turn it all the way up.
I disagree.
It is a power amp. It's just like many other power amps with a gain control - Quad have made them, EAR, almost all pro amps.......it's a long list.
As Chris says, turn it all the way up.
I used my mini t with an arcam pre and found that when turned all the way up i could hear a low click click clicking, when I backed off the volume to about 3/4 this disappeared was was plenty loud enough with loads of headroom on the pre to spare. I have a mini 1 and haven't tried in in power amp mode but I'd hope it didn't have the same issue.
rubber duck
31-05-2014, 12:57
If you don't turn the volume all the way up then you're not bypassing the pot. I had similar noise/RF problems with my Muse, Mini-T and Trends with the volume on full. Fortunately the Trends has jumpers to bypass the pot. For the Muse I simply run the line out from my Croft preamp and use the volume pot on the Muse.
jandl100
01-06-2014, 08:45
I have to take exception here Dave.
How can something passive have more grunt?
It can only remove from the original signal.
If you'd said it has a less damaging effect on the signal then I wouldn't be commenting
Try a few passive pres, Chris! ;)
I do see your point, but maybe it's that some passives remove more 'grunt' than others. :) A TVC passive pre-amp generally has significantly more grunt and drive (i.e. removes the least) than most other types of passive, for example. Differences in drive/grunt between non-TVC passives are less obvious but still there, ime.
wee tee cee
02-06-2014, 16:05
I tried a slightly different set up last night and seem to have stumbled across a nice synergy in my room. I run 63 statics fed by various mono blocks. However I plumbed in two mini Ts utilising gotham y cables and splitting my speaker cables. I took the Tizzie out the mix last night feeding the Ts direct from the DAC.....It sounds rather good IMHO.
Taking the tizzie out the chain has made a noticeable difference.
Stratmangler
02-06-2014, 19:03
I do see your point, but maybe it's that some passives remove more 'grunt' than others. :)
That's the point I was making - all a passive volume control can do is remove from the input signal.
Digibart
26-06-2014, 14:15
Hi all,
I just get an email from Anthony(BTE designs) and he doesn't make pre amps anymore...any other alternatives in similar price range?
Greetings,
Bart
wee tee cee
27-06-2014, 10:16
the tisbury audio pre is excellent IMHO. Good guys to deal with.
Digibart
28-06-2014, 12:32
OK,I'm gonna have a nice afternoon reading :
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?25327-Tisbury-Audio-Mini-Passive-Pre-amp
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