Rega ACOS restoration project

[orbscure]

Evening all...

As my second system is really beginning to take shape, I've decided to start work on fully resurrecting my trusty Rega ACOS turntable. I had it looked at by a reputable dealer back in 2012 and although they were able to get it going, they still recommended that it needed a new tonearm, motor and pcb. The good news is that I have since managed to obtain a Rega Rb200 tonearm and this is off to Audio Origami on Monday for an overhaul and rewire...

With regards the motor/pcb, does anybody have any suggestions for where I could obtain either? I've located a couple of Rega 24v high performance upgrade kits on eBay (as seen here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291063726212?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)) as well as an Inspire motor (as seen here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301093992579?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)). However, with regards the Rega upgrade kit, the ACOS tt doesn't appear on the list tt's it can be fitted to, so I'm unsure as to whether this would meet my requirements. I've approached a Rega dealer and asked the same question, but am yet to get a response. Also, if I were to source both, are they simple enough for me to remove and replace? If not, does anybody have any recommendations for dealers/individuals in the South East who could assist?

Cheers
Pete

[hifi_dave]

In the 41 years I've been selling, repairing and setting up Rega turntables, I've never encountered a faulty motor. The PCB has a resistor and cap or just two caps, so if a component fails, you replace that, not the whole board and you will know when that happens because it stops turning. If it's working, that's it.

In the extremely unlikely event that a new motor is required, I've got a box full here.

[orbscure]

Appreciate the feedback Dave :) I've reproduced below, word for word, the contents of the last email I had from the dealer after he'd worked on the deck:

"I have done what I can with the deck and the arm, I have replaced the cartridge and reset a few things. You will still need to spin the platter before turning on as the torque is too great and this causes the vibration of the pulley (this is also the case with most of Rega decks up to but not including this year). The deck plays and works fine, the arm is not 100% but I have re-attached and balanced the weight. You could spend more on it like get a new arm, get a new motor, get a new pcb etc. But ultimately I think this would not be economical to do and a new deck in the future would be more advisable if you use records frequently"

I've set the deck up today in my second system with the original ACOS Lustre arm, ADC headshell and audio-technica AT95E cart and she does indeed seem able to play vinyl without any problems... so perhaps the refurbished and rewired Rb200 will enable many more years of service after all...

Cheers
Pete

[hifi_dave]

I've heard similar many times before. The dealer does one of those sucky teeth things, like a plumber giving bad news and tells you that the motor is knackered and it's such a big costly job, you might just as well buy a whole new TT...:doh: Boll*cks !!!

If it's playing records but takes a while to come up to speed, you might need a belt. If it makes noises as it spins up to speed, that is normal as it's a relatively heavy platter. Give the belt a light dusting of talc and that should help it. Worst case, you might need a touch of oil on the motor but that's it.

I had a customer here a couple of weeks ago with an 80s Planar-3 not turning. His local dealer did the "completely knackered" spiel and told him it would cost £200 to put right, so "why not have a new TT" ? Cut a long story short, he came here and I replaced the resistor, gave it a clean and lube and charged him £10. One happy customer..:)

[walpurgis]

Be very careful with the R200 arm. The bias control belt perishes and falls apart.

11581

New belts are not available as far as I'm aware.

[DSJR]

Johnnie at Audio Origami may have located an equivalent video drive belt (a Mitsubishi I seem to remember) made of nylon/delrin so hopefully less inclined to break

The Lustre arm was very nice indeed, so why fuss over an R200? The latter does measure rather well though and bias belt apart, is easy to work on if you know what you're doing.

With a NEW virgin belt, the suspended motor will chatter all over the shop on startup and sometimes, the new belt will weave up and down the inner hub. Give a new official belt a few hours running and it ALWAYS polishes in. Suspension belts are readily available too and older ones may have sagged by now. DON'T EVER do the two 'motor' screws up any more than finger tight (fingers on the screw driver shaft not the hand grips) as excessive belt compression, followed by fractured laminate is inevitable otherwise. Make sure the motor wires don't touch anything underneath either. A new mat would be in order as well as old ones go thick and 'woolly' in texture. Thinner one for the Planar 3 and thicker one for the Planar 2 :)

[orbscure]

Thanks for the additional feedback chaps... :)

With regards the deck in its current configuration, having found the time to set it up today and pipe it through the Croft/Quad preamp/power amp & Ruark speakers, I have to say that it behaved perfectly and sounded fantastic... so it may be that my initial thoughts on tinkering with the motor and pcb were clouded by the advice I received after it was last looked at. With regards the current Lustre arm, my plan it to get the R200 refurbished by Audio Origami and then remove and send him the Lustre arm for a similar inspect and repair. So my long term plan is to refit the Lustre arm and keep the deck as original as possible...

[orbscure]

Got my refurbished R200 arm back from Johnnie @ Audio Origami... so is removing one arm from my ACOS deck and replacing it with another something I can do, or do I need to get the experts involved? :scratch:

Cheers
Pete

[orbscure]

Hi guys...

Having finally managed to find the time and funds to get the Rega Acos Lustre arm serviced by Johnnie at Audio Origami (http://www.audioorigami.co.uk), its arrived back and is now back in its rightful place fitted to my Rega ACOS deck... can the experts amongst you view and more importantly listen to the video clip linked below (you may need to turn up the volume on your speakers) and give me your opinions on the speed? I want to list the deck, arm, headshell and cart on eBay but am unsure as to whether there is enough of an issue with the speed to effect the price I could get:

http://youtu.be/dlQQ3Km1W2g

I've checked the motor suspension rubber ring and the pulley isn't loose and has no play. The deck also has a new OEM white belt and the bearing has been lubricated with Origin Live Turntable Bearing Oil...

Any comments appreciated :)

Cheers
Pete

[guy]

Sorry, it sounds all over the place to me.

Interesting - I tried counting the rotations over a one minute period and it came out at about 33 and a bit rpm. But over shorter periods, I "guestimated" between 32 and 36!
As well as lubricating the bearing, have you had the ball bearing out, cleaned and inspected?

[Gordon Steadman]

It certainly sounded a bit strange to me.

The music was unfamiliar which didn't help but there definitely seemed to be considerable wow going on.

[The Barbarian]

I have a boxed Rega 'Planet' Turntable/Colton 'MC-101' Arm in time-warp condition. i keep this for historical purposes but that's about it.

[DSJR]

Take off the glass platter, remove the belt and replace the glass. Give it a spin and see how long it takes to run down to stationary. It should be a good while, gradually creeping to a standstill. This occurs to both Planar 2 and 3 models. if the platter spins ok but comes to a stop fairly quickly, you've lost your ball sir :eyebrows: The bottom edge of the bearing spindle is radiused and runs surprisingly well without the ball in situ.

'Knocking' motor on startup - Quite normal on all Regas with suspended motors. With a new belt fitted, running up and down the inner hub is common too when running. BOTH these artifacts disappear as the belt polishes in and eventually, an old belt loses grip and startup takes an age.

By the way, I know the arm was called a Rega Lustre, but the R200 has a bit more in common with the Pioneer PL71 tonearm than the Acos arm. I think the earliest Planets (and Planars?) had an Acos-like tonearm fitted, but this was a bit before my time with this brand I'm afraid (I came to the brand just after the Planar 3 was launched - 1976?).

[orbscure]

Many thanks for the feedback chaps... in a perverse sort of way, its good to have my suspicions confirmed.

As far as I'm aware, didn't these early Rega decks just have a bronze bush bearing which needed a couple of drops of lubrication? I wasn't aware that there was a bearing in the bottom! Also, as seen here (http://www.vinylengine.com/images/model/acos_rega_planet.jpg) these vintage 1973 decks didn't have a glass platter, just the arrangement seen via the link. I'm going to allow it to run for 24 hours and see if that makes any difference...

There is also a more or less identical one listed on eBay here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Rega-Acos-Planet-Turntable-VGC-/141294865871)...

Cheers
Pete

[guy]

There is also a more or less identical one listed on eBay here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Rega-Acos-Planet-Turntable-VGC-/141294865871)...

Cheers
Pete

wee bit optimistic on pricing?

oh well, we will see if it gets bought.

[guy]

Many thanks for the feedback chaps... in a perverse sort of way, its good to have my suspicions confirmed.

As far as I'm aware, didn't these early Rega decks just have a bronze bush bearing which needed a couple of drops of lubrication? I wasn't aware that there was a bearing in the bottom! Also, as seen here (http://www.vinylengine.com/images/model/acos_rega_planet.jpg) these vintage 1973 decks didn't have a glass platter, just the arrangement seen via the link. I'm going to allow it to run for 24 hours and see if that makes any difference...


Cheers
Pete

I would have put money on there being a bearing. But if not, how does the bush look ?

[orbscure]

Its difficult to say Guy... its just appears to be a sealed bronze bush set into the deck. Two drops of turntable oil and away she goes...

With regards the example seen on eBay at the moment, when they get listed (which I don't think is very often) I've seen them go for between £120 to £250... so £325 does seem a tad excessive. Proof will be if it sells... :)

[DSJR]

It's worth checking with Rega on this, but as far as I'm aware, their main bearing is and has always been (since Planar 2 anyway, and possibly excluding the RP1), a polished stainless? steel shaft running in a precision brass sleeve/well, which has a concave bottom to take the ball. As I said above, the shaft has a rounded edge and this will run in the bearing fairly well, albeit slightly stiffly. The ball is a stock size and easily obtained.

Rega used to be able to supply belts for the Planet. I hope this is still the case.

[Audio Al]

It does sound strange , could you do a video with some vocals something we will all know ?

[orbscure]

I'm not sure it is David, having just shone a torch down inside, it appears to be solid brass. Here is the best image I can grab with my iPhone:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/VM%20Issues/bearing02_zps3ba40b89.jpg

It appears to be concave at the bottom and there is no ball bearing present... so perhaps this could be why its running like it is? Perhaps something like this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ceramic-Bearing-Upgrade-For-Rega-Turntables-And-Clones-/231161823728?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d25181f0) is worth sourcing?

[Wakefield Turntables]

yep that sounds like a sick puppy!

[Gordon Steadman]

I'm not sure it is David, having just shone a torch down inside, it appears to be solid brass. Here is the best image I can grab with my iPhone:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/VM%20Issues/bearing02_zps3ba40b89.jpg

It appears to be concave at the bottom and there is no ball bearing present... so perhaps this could be why its running like it is? Perhaps something like this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ceramic-Bearing-Upgrade-For-Rega-Turntables-And-Clones-/231161823728?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d25181f0) is worth sourcing?

That indent at the bottom definitely looks like it needs a ball bearing. My Origin Live TT (the original kit version) has exactly the same thing. With out the ball it has horrible wow and you can hear that its way off. Put the ball in and its great. Worth a try anyway I would have thought. I only have a couple of spares left (its been about a bit!) but they are about 3mm or so. This will obviously raise the platter a little.

[Audio Al]

Perhaps something like this is worth sourcing?

I just ordered one for my P3 :)

[orbscure]

Thanks guys :) at £3.99 & free P&P it would be rude not to grab one too... so fingers crossed its the missing link! :lol:

[guy]

I could be completely wrong here, but I am suspicious about ceramic bearings.
I tend to think of ceramics as being very hard materials, so wouldn't using a ceramic ball bearing cause faster wear of the bush than stainless?

ie better to wear the ball bearing (easily replaced), rather than the spindle/bush?

[hifi_dave]

I'm not sure it is David, having just shone a torch down inside, it appears to be solid brass. Here is the best image I can grab with my iPhone:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/VM%20Issues/bearing02_zps3ba40b89.jpg

It appears to be concave at the bottom and there is no ball bearing present... so perhaps this could be why its running like it is? Perhaps something like this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Ceramic-Bearing-Upgrade-For-Rega-Turntables-And-Clones-/231161823728?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35d25181f0) is worth sourcing?

You've lost the ball. It won't work properly without. You probably dropped it when taking out the shaft as the ball wil stick to the bottom of the shaft just long enough for it to drop on the floor..:doh:

[orbscure]

I lost my marbles a long, long time ago Dave :eek: and I think the ball bearing could have been missing for quite some time too... I'd like to think that the reputable dealer I mentioned in post #3 would have ensured it was present when they serviced the deck (although I do have my doubts) but I have also moved home twice since then too... I've certainly never seen one and wasn't even aware there should have been one until now!

[hifi_dave]

I trust that wasn't a Rega dealer..:eek: whatever, he needs castrating. It's so obvious when looking at the deck in the flesh, that the ball is missing, not only that but it runs irratically, as you have found.

I've had a few people, over the years, bring in their Rega with running problems. When I have shown them that the ball is missing, they invariably deny looking inside the bearing. So the ball vanished then ???

[hifi_dave]

I've re-read post 3. He really should be castrated and then hung, drawn and quartered. A complete and utter lack of knowledge.

[orbscure]

Yes Dave... a bona fide Rega Dealer and if I were 100% sure it was missing when the deck was returned, I'd have no qualms about naming and shaming them... but as I can't, its best I keep mum ;)

BTW: where do you stand with the ceramic bearing as a suitable replacement?

[DSJR]

A ceramic ball isn't necessary really. A steel one as used conventionally is fine, lubricated with a few drops of good old fashioned EP80 gear oil! Now, and this is important, the bottom of the spindle may well have a SMALL running 'dimple,' but anything hugely concave will need dealing with. I/we need pics here to advise better and if a replacement spindle is needed, Rega may be still able to help - it just depends on how the original was fitted.

Just in case you don't know, hifi dave is still a VERY long term Rega dealer since the mid 70's at the latest and I sold and serviced Regas from 1981 until 2004, when I retired from the industry. Dave has kept me in touch with the brand and I know their UK sales manager very well indeed as we both worked for the same now demised dealer in Northampton for a while :)

[orbscure]

Just in case you don't know, hifi dave is still a VERY long term Rega dealer since the mid 70's at the latest and I sold and serviced Regas from 1981 until 2004, when I retired from the industry. Dave has kept me in touch with the brand and I know their UK sales manager very well indeed as we both worked for the same now demised dealer in Northampton for a while :)

Thanks David, I was indeed aware, hence my question ;)

[DSJR]

I've only ever seen one Rega bearing so damaged it wouldn't run properly. It was a Planar 3 (I think) that hadn't been lubricated when made. Six months and the ball had worn such a concave shaped dimple in the spindle tip, the bearing ran as if there was no ball in the bottom. Rega replaced immediately to be fair. From then on, I checked EVERY deck I set up or had in for service/cartridge replacement. Decks over fifteen years often had the supplied oil drying out to a brownish residue and this needed cleaning and re-oiling with Rega supplied EP80 (fine with a brass sleeve). I usually added a good few drops although this causes a hydraulic lock as the spindle displaces the air in the bearing through the oil. A tissue surrounding the spindle to mop up any residue helps too ;) After a few decks, I worked out how much extra oil to add (hardly any in actual fact) and this made the procedure quick and easy to do...

[orbscure]

Thanks for that Dave... I'll give the ceramic bearing a whirl and see how it performs. I'll be more than a touch annoyed if the bearing sorts out the issues I've been having, albeit, at least the ACOS arm has been fully serviced and should now provide many more years of service :)

Pete

[hifi_dave]

Yes Dave... a bona fide Rega Dealer and if I were 100% sure it was missing when the deck was returned, I'd have no qualms about naming and shaming them... but as I can't, its best I keep mum ;)

BTW: where do you stand with the ceramic bearing as a suitable replacement?

I wouldn't use a ceramic ball. If the steel one is good enough for Rega, it's good enough for me and the ceramic might drill out the bottom of your spindle.

[orbscure]

Cheers Dave... that'll do for me, so off to see if I can locate a steel bearing on either eBay or via Amazon... ;)

Pete

[hifi_dave]

Would you e-mail (not PM) me your address and I'l send you one.

[orbscure]

Top man Dave :) email send...

[orbscure]

As way of an update, the ceramic bearing arrived today, so having cleaned out the bush, popped in the bearing and added a couple of drops of oil, the deck is now working like a dream! So many thanks to everybody here who offered up their comments and suggestions... :cool:

Also, extra special thanks to hifi dave, not only for his help, but also for sending me a free bearing... top man!

[hifi_dave]

I sent a bearing. Did it arrive safely ?

[orbscure]

Safely arrived in the post today Dave and very much appreciated my friend :)

[orbscure]

Just to add, here is a clip recorded today of the same turntable, this time with the missing bearing added (with thanks to hifi_dave) playing the start of my unplayed (some might say virgin) Tubular Bells 180g reissue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogMZ3iBiMRg&feature=youtu.be

[guy]

sounds much more stable - congratulations, it seems not too much damage was done by playing without a ball!