View Full Version : Silver Speaker Cable
Ninanina
08-02-2014, 01:18
Has anyone any experience using silver speaker cable?
If so what's your thoughts ?? :)
Hello there.
I use silver speaker cable as well as interconnects. I find the clarity and detail on offer completely beguiling and somewhat addictive. Every time I try to re-introduce some copper into the loom I cannot live with it for long.
Many claim that silver brings about a hard, bright sound, but personally I haven’t found this. It may well depend on the quality of the silver I suppose, or the equipment. I think there may also even be an element of myth involved here just as there is with Monitor Audio speakers. After all, my system should sound unlistenable to most people if the common misconceptions with regards to both silver cable and Monitor Audio speakers are to be believed. I use both and think it sounds fantastic. It’s true that I prefer an upfront, dynamic sound to a ‘pipe and slippers’ type delivery, but my system never sounds overly aggressive or bright in a way that many would swear that it should/must. In fact, I have found the opposite to be true. On a couple of occasions when I have placed copper back into the loom I have experienced an annoying 'sheen' in the upper frequencies or increased hash which I find hard to tolerate. One that didn't do this was extremely expensive.
Perhaps silver offers a ‘warts and all’ type delivery and it is this that some people don’t like. Personally, I want neutrality. I want to hear the equipment. If I am listening to a poor recording or a bright recording then let it sound that way. For me, the benefits of using silver with good recordings, which to be fair is the majority, far outweighs any desire to want to ‘sugar coat’ the bad ones.
Most of my interconnects are diy, made up from good quality wire. The speaker cable I use is this:
http://www.cleardaycables.com/shotgun.php
If it is a realistic and neutral, clear, open sound you are after with tight, controlled bass and detail in both low and high frequencies then I would highly recommend experimenting with silver if you haven’t before. If you like things 'sugar coated' or prefer 'bloom' in your bass, 'rolled off' highs or you wish to use your cables as a type of tone control in any way shape or form then silver is maybe not for you.
Regards,
Frank
l myself sometimes use Connex Audio 5N silver loudspeaker cables and they are surprisingly full sounding and very smooth with a very clean sound in general.
Oops nearly forgot, not all silver cables are the same, purity is very important l believe.....
Oops nearly forgot, not all silver cables are the same, purity is very important l believe.....
Absolutely!! It's got to be 99.999%
jandl100
08-02-2014, 07:59
I find there is a big jump in sonic purity going from 4N (99.99%) to 5N (99.999%) silver - 4N is a bit grainy sounding, 5N isn't, ime.
Not all silver is created equal.
There is the claimed 4N's and 5N's silver which may or may not be the truth from the vendor. A huge majority of it is in fact recycled jewellery silver which barely meets Sterling standard at 92.5% purity so unless it has been assayed you can assume it will probably be far less than that. The "silver" coming out of China may contain all sorts of other metals. It is this material which I believe gives rise to the bright and harsh sounds experienced.
In addition to it's purity rating, the way the metal is annealed also plays a significant role in sound quality. A 4N "soft annealed" silver cable sounds far better to me than a 5N "hard annealed" cable and the likes of Kpndo/Audio Note have known this for a very long time. The way to tell the annealing apart is to bend a strand and if it snaps on the first flex it is probably a hard annealed wire. Either type isn't cheap to produce and 5N is almost double the 4N price, so don't be swayed by cheap prices and overstated metallurgy claims.
jandl100
08-02-2014, 09:15
:interesting:
You the man, Frank!
Indeed... What makes for a bright sound, IME, is silver-plated copper. Solid (high-purity) silver isn't bright in the slightest, and instead sounds smooth, wide-open, and has superb filigree detailing, giving that beguiling and 'sparkly', 'out-of-the-box', quality that Frank (Mido) describes.
The only problem is that the good (high-purity) stuff isn't cheap!
Marco.
Wakefield Turntables
08-02-2014, 09:40
You need to speak to Yannis who made all my interconnects. I dont have speaker cable as such (except between my amps in my speakers) cos I have a active system, but, I have been using solid silver for donkeys years. I moved over from high purity copper, then silver plated coper, to pure silver. I have never looked back and it's what powers my reference system, even the power leads.:eek:
PaulStewart
08-02-2014, 12:34
I have been using pure silver Litz construction speaker cable for many years, in fact the entire analogue signal chain is now 5n silver. It's dynamic and detailed without being harsh in any way. My speaker cables are soft annealed and I agree this is superior.
Are you chaps really sure that you can actually hear differences consistently between different purity of silver and both compared to well made copper cables? I mean, are you able to instantaneously switch from one to the other or better, get a pal to do this without you knowing? Any time taken between listening is going to distort things somewhat, so I believe you have to be very careful when making sweeping pronoucements. Also, I doubt silver cabling had anything to do with 99.999% of recordings out there. For speaker cables, isn't the gauge more important?
Maybe I have it all wrong, but I have to respectfully caution against blind alleys, especially when the gear is being chopped and changed all the time.
Ninanina
09-02-2014, 20:19
Silver isn't bright in the slightest, and instead sounds smooth, wide-open, and has superb filigree detailing, giving that beguiling and 'sparkly', 'out-of-the-box', quality that Frank (Mido) describes.Marco.
Marco this is what I am experiencing while trialing MG's superb Oyaide Silver RCA's and Digi Coax cable...
My thoughts are that they are far from bright and seem to me smooth and detailed at the same time.... I am really enjoying them.. I will be shortly going back to my standard MG G2000's with silver WBT's for comparison, but I THINK I know the answer..... watch this space..!!
Can anyone tell me what exactly 4N and 5N actually means... ?? sorry if that's a bit of a thicky question..!! :D
Ninanina
09-02-2014, 21:56
:interesting:
You the man, Frank!
Jerry, just for the record, I love your little duckie avatar, if they are duckies...... :D
Can anyone tell me what exactly 4N and 5N actually means... ?? sorry if that's a bit of a thicky question..!! :D
4N is shorthand for "four nines" and denotes a purity of 99.99%. Similarly 5N is shorthand for "five nines" and denotes a purity of 99.999%.
Actually the question that ought to be asked is what is the difference, say, between 4N copper and 4N silver? That 0.01% of impurity will be different for copper and silver; some impurities are more benign than others!
Ninanina
09-02-2014, 22:03
4N is shorthand for "four nines" and denotes a purity of 99.99%. Similarly 5N is shorthand for "five nines" and denotes a purity of 99.999%.
Actually the question that ought to be asked is what is the difference, say, between 4N copper and 4N silver? That 0.01% of impurity will be different for copper and silver; some impurities are more benign than others!
Thanks so much Barry, that makes more sense now... :D
Not all silver is created equal.
There is the claimed 4N's and 5N's silver which may or may not be the truth from the vendor. A huge majority of it is in fact recycled jewellery silver which barely meets Sterling standard at 92.5% purity so unless it has been assayed you can assume it will probably be far less than that. The "silver" coming out of China may contain all sorts of other metals. It is this material which I believe gives rise to the bright and harsh sounds experienced.
In addition to it's purity rating, the way the metal is annealed also plays a significant role in sound quality. A 4N "soft annealed" silver cable sounds far better to me than a 5N "hard annealed" cable and the likes of Kpndo/Audio Note have known this for a very long time.
Spot on. Soft 'temper' achieved by annealing is vital. Visit http://www.laventure.net/tourist/cables.htm and http://www.tempoelectric.com/index.html for some non BS info. I think the negative comments received about silver have had their origins in poor quality silver.
Marco this is what I am experiencing while trialing MG's superb Oyaide Silver RCA's and Digi Coax cable...
My thoughts are that they are far from bright and seem to me smooth and detailed at the same time.... I am really enjoying them.. I will be shortly going back to my standard MG G2000's with silver WBT's for comparison, but I THINK I know the answer..... watch this space..!!
Can anyone tell me what exactly 4N and 5N actually means... ?? sorry if that's a bit of a thicky question..!! :D
Lol... 4 Nines and 5 Nines, as in 99.9999 or 99.99999% (i.e. how many 9s after the decimal point) is the percentage of pure silver (or copper, if it's copper being discussed instead).
The Oyaides are superb, Bev. I thoroughly recommend them and use them myself, and most importantly, they seem to suit your system. I'd treat yourself, if I were you :)
Marco.
Ninanina
09-02-2014, 22:27
The Oyaides are superb, Bev. I thoroughly recommend them and use them myself, and most importantly, they seem to suit your system. I'd treat yourself, if I were you :)
Marco.
Do you use the RCA Oyaides too Marco??
I'd agree with you though, they are superb, but I am currently running them against some VERY expensive cables and trying to get a winner out of the group.... it's so tricky!!
For speaker cables, isn't the gauge more important?
Well yes and no Dave.
With copper cables it is GENERALLY the heavier gauges that sound best, but there are some fine gauge copper cables that sound excellent too. There is also a significant difference between a solid core and a flex type multistrand cable, with the solid core notably heavier in the bass.
However, with silver cables this isn't necessarily so. I used to sell a pure silver speaker cable with solid 0.6mm conductors which sounded sublime. When doubled up it sounded even better. The manufacturer then brought out a solid 0.8mm conductor variant and it sounded way off beam to me with a thick sloppy bass compared to the tight and lithe bass of the smaller conductor cable.
Why? I am donald ducked if I know, these are just my own observations :scratch:
Do you use the RCA Oyaides too Marco??
Yes, I use them between my CDP and DAC, along with a longer single length for my digital cable. They offer a bit more resolution than the G2000HDs.
I'd agree with you though, they are superb, but I am currently running them against some VERY expensive cables and trying to get a winner out of the group.... it's so tricky!!
Have fun and good luck! :)
Marco.
Are you chaps really sure that you can actually hear differences consistently between different purity of silver and both compared to well made copper cables? I mean, are you able to instantaneously switch from one to the other or better, get a pal to do this without you knowing? Any time taken between listening is going to distort things somewhat, so I believe you have to be very careful when making sweeping pronoucements. Also, I doubt silver cabling had anything to do with 99.999% of recordings out there. For speaker cables, isn't the gauge more important?
Maybe I have it all wrong, but I have to respectfully caution against blind alleys, especially when the gear is being chopped and changed all the time.
Its the same old debate over and over again, can anyone tell the difference between 2 identical cables one being 4N and one being 5N, doubt it.
Ninanina
09-02-2014, 23:27
Its the same old debate over and over again, can anyone tell the difference between 2 identical cables one being 4N and one being 5N, doubt it.
I think the debate for me is: "are the silver's better than the copper's I have"... well the silver has something but I just can't, at the moment, put my finger on it..... it's a tricky one..... that's on the interconnects though...... am just curious on the speaker cable for same reason....:scratch::scratch:
Lol... 4 Nines and 5 Nines, as in 99.9999 or 99.99999% (i.e. how many 9s after the decimal point) is the percentage of pure silver (or copper, if it's copper being discussed instead).
The Oyaides are superb, Bev. I thoroughly recommend them and use them myself, and most importantly, they seem to suit your system. I'd treat yourself, if I were you :)
Marco.
Hi Marco, I think Barry got it right:
4N = 99.99%
5N = 99.999%
99.99999% speaker cable would be expensive (if available!) plus oxidation would make the process of making the cable very difficult.
Guy.
Taken from http://www.ehow.com/info_8595685_4n-silver.html
Rule of 'Nines'
· High-end silver has its purity expressed by stating the alloy as 99 percent pure, 99.9 percent pure, and so on. A shorthand method refers to the number of nines with the decimal point understood as being after the first two nines. Using this system, we find that 3N silver is 99.9 percent pure, or .999 fine with 4N silver 99.99 percent pure or .9999 fine.
Electric Wires
· Four nines, or 4N, silver is specialized and used in precision applications where a small change in purity affects electrical conductivity. The boutique audio industry is a consumer of 4N silver and markets its superior purity as worth the additional cost.
Ninanina
19-03-2014, 02:18
After a VERY long comparison between the superb Mark Grant G2000HD (copper with silver WBT) cables and the Mark Grant Oyaide FTVS-510 pure silver interconnects I have at last decided on the silver route
I can't put my finger on why the silver cables have won the battle, but they have 'something'!!. The cables are just sooo smooth but detailed at the same time. I normally find that a cable that resolves as well as these siver cables are normally on the 'bright' side, if that makes sense... BUT these pure silver cables are absolutely the furthest from being bright as you could get, they are just very natural sounding and silky smooth at the same time; a rare combination indeed
I was led to believe that silver cables can be a bit on the bright side but i think that must apply to silver plated cables rather than the solid silver cables i've been using
It might be that my amp seems to like a diet of silver as i believe most Audio Note amps are manufactured with the use of silver in mind
Now i really want to try some silver speaker cables to see if going the full silver route is the way to go... ;)
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the benefits of cryo treating pure silver cables. There are good metallurgical reasons why this would increase the benefits of using such cable. Similarly there are good metallurgical reasons why using CC (continuously cast) cables, both silver and copper, would increase the benefits of using such cables. It follows that the 'ultimate' cable should be cryo treated 5N CC silver. It all adds considerable cost but whether any benefits can be appreciated by most people and/or deemed to be worth that extra expense I will leave to others to decide.
In brief, it's all to do with the grain boundaries between the grains (crystals) that make up the structure as this is where any impurities tend to be and are thought to hinder (interfere) with the transmission of the signal along the wire.
This is as I recall my metallurgical studies from many years ago but I do have personal experience of the benefits of cryo treated I/Cs and speaker cables but would describe it as 'subtle' rather than 'night and day' and relates to my mid-fi system as it was then.
Dave.
Ninanina
20-03-2014, 23:16
I have at last found the words to best describe my new Mark Grant Oyaide Pure Silver cables:::::: ARTICULATE....and SWEET-as-a-NUT
It has taken me weeks to come up with this description; call me slow if you like!!! but that is absolutely the best description I can come up with to best describe these superb cables
That is with MY ears and in MY system
I would certainly recommend for anyone to try a pair of these superior silver cables from Mark Grant...
If that's advertising then I just dont care.... :eek:
It follows that the 'ultimate' cable should be cryo treated 5N CC silver.
5N silver wire simply doesn't exist, at least it can't be catagorised as such although there's nothing to stop some 4N silver being 5N by chance but no-one would ever know.
Claims of 5N silver should be a con warning for that companies whole cable range (unless they are simply in a rock and hard place if they don't make the very dubious claims).
Edit: Looking around does indeed show claimed 5N silver wire available industrially but you have to question what 5N means. Apparently it ONLY means purity of the specific impurities they tested for and is not absolute purity i.e. it could contain non-metalic impurities pushing it far below 5N in absolute terms:
From https://www.ameslab.gov/mpc/purityFAQ#toTheNines A US Department of Energy website:
What to you mean by 5N or 3N?
It is important to understand how purity is defined when acquiring alloying materials. When a material is declared as 99.99% pure, or 4-nines, or 4N, the declared value and the true value of the concentration of impurities most likely are not the same. This is due to many manufactures not testing for all possible elemental impuirties.
Let us first lay out what the % or Nines scale means in terms of parts-per-million (ppm)
Nines
Purity % ----- Total Parts --- Matrix ppm --- Impurity ppm
1N 90% ------ 1,000,000 --- 900,000 --- 100,000
2N 99% --------1,000,000 --- 990,000 --- 10,000
3N 99.9% ----- 1,000,000 --- 999,000 --- 1,000
4N 99.99% ---- 1,000,000 --- 999,900 --- 100
5N 99.999% -- 1,000,000 --- 999,990 --- 10
6N 99.9999% - 1,000,000 --- 999,999 --- 1
7N 99.99999% 1,000,000 --- 999,999.9 --- 0.1
∞ 100% ------ 1,000,000 --- 1,000,000 --- 0
What is the basis?
The issue of purity is often confusing, as there is the absolute purity and the common metals basis purity. On an absolute scale, 99.999% is a very high bar to achieve, since this allows for only 10 ppm impurity with respect the all elements on the periodic table. Metals basis, as is commonly indicated in catalogues, does not include many of the metallurgical important interstitial elements or other nonmetallic impurities. For example, a certificate of analysis that declared Mn is 99.95% purity (min. metals basis) also reported that the Mn has 0.3% oxygen. The Mn is not 99.95% on an absolute basis. If you include the oxygen content, at best the Mn is 99.65% pure on an absolute basis. A metals basis purity may not include: H, B, C, N, O, F, Si, P, S, Cl, As, Se, Br, Te, I, At. Some certificate of analysis forms may only list a handful of elements that were tested; the remainder are untested or unreported. The true value of the impurity concentration is therefore not known.
From an audio cable manufacturer's website, Silver Audio http://www.silveraudio.com/faqs.htm#pure:
. How pure is your silver? (The "ultra-pure hoax revealed")
The shameful practice of claiming ridiculous and completely impossible levels of silver purity by various "high-end" audio cable companies has gone on long enough. Silver Audio formally challenges ANY high-end audio cable company claiming to use greater than 99.99% pure silver to PROVE their claim by making available, a notarized copy of their certification analysis including the name and location of the INDEPENDENT laboratory as well as the type of testing method that was used.
When we demanded proof from our FORMER vendor of their claim (to us) of "five-nines" pure (99.999%) silver, they were unable (and unwilling) to provide it. When another potential vendor claiming "six-nines" pure (99.9999%) stopped communicating with us after we demanded proof from them as well, that was when we became very suspicious that claims of six and even "seven-nines" (and still higher!) were nothing but blatant marketing fraud. In some cases, honest ignorance appears to be the reason behind some claims of ultra-high purity. In most cases however, desperation for a unique selling point is obviously the motivation!
In two years of dealing with scores of the same testing labs that certify metal purity for the aerospace and medical industries (where purity REALLY matters) we find over and over again the same result: There is NO testing method, not even ICP mass spectrometry, and most importantly, no clean room or handling procedure capable of reliably and repeatedly assaying any element beyond 99.99% pure. Even the silicon used in the semi-conductor industry (by some of the most critical and sensitive equipment in the world) cannot be assayed for purity beyond 99.99%! Some audio companies have, perhaps only naively, tested their metal only for gas impurities (oxygen) which is expressed in parts per million (ppm) and apparently tried to then express this figure as a percent of purity (by weight or volume?)! This conversion makes no sense and even if it did, the real contaminants of silver are not oxygen, but the trace elements of iron, copper, phosphorus and silicon!
Silver Audio does not purchase any lot of silver that does not test to 99.99% pure ("pure" silver is often less than 99.99%). Each lot is certified by an independent lab for ALL trace impurities by weight, DC resistance and ductility. The certification for each new lot is notarized and provided to Silver Audio and is available to anyone who requests it, though it is intended for our OEM customers who buy our wire. The only aspects of purity that we pay some attention to, since they MIGHT account for some performance difference, are the relative levels of silicon and copper. Otherwise, what really matters (and is measurable) is the method by which the wire is drawn and to what final temper. Silver Audio does use a very simple (but to our knowledge unique) trick in conjunction with well maintained, very high tolerance diamond dies to ensure an exceptionally smooth, dense, and clean final product. Otherwise, the lesson here is that what really matters is the cable design and how it is executed, not whether the conductors are 1/10,000 of one percent less pure than those of another brand of cable!
Emphasis on both all mine.
So after all that, how would you be able to judge whether the claimed 5N silver cable has been cryo'd either? Price?
Ninanina
21-03-2014, 01:02
I have absolutely no idea what my Oyaide cables are made of, I believe them to be classed as 5N silver cable whatever that may be..., but to be honest I don't really care what they are made of
What I do know is that the Mark Grant Oyaide Silver interconnects and digi cables do 'something' in my system that is totally addictive... that's all I know :)
5N silver wire simply doesn't exist,
I would be interested to know a bit more about this. Is there a reference you could point to?
Ninanina
21-03-2014, 01:13
I would be interested to know a bit more about this. Is there a reference you could point to?
Andrei, I'd be interested in hearing about the Oyaide interconnects you are using... what are the specs supposed to be? are they maybe the same'ish as my Mark Grant Oyaide cables??
My Mark Grant cables are described fully as: Oyaide FTVS-510 pure silver cable... and all mine are fitted with pure silver WBT 0110 Ag plugs also..
Thanks
:)
In other words, one cable manufacturer's 5N silver will be a totally different 5N silver to another (if they buy from different industrial suppliers) and still may be no more pure in the things that matter (say a particular element impurity) than 4N silver.
Yet no-one knows or could EVER tell you which impurities in silver would have an audible difference in a cable; copper impurites, lead impurities, oxygen impurities? Are you sure? Which kind of 5N does one fork out about 3 times the money for?
Then try to check whether 5N or 4N sounds better and you're sure it's not the topology or other constructional elements? You'd need the exact same cables with the only difference being the 4N and 5N part. All of course ignoring placebo effect for the sake of argument..
Seems a very silly and pointless exercise to waste one's life on as there are too many unknowns to know what aspect makes something sound different, let alone if it even does. Might as well go with the colour of the box it arrives in..
In a controlled test (unspecified, only theoretical, because even that causes arguements) I bet no-one could tell the difference between 4N and 5N and cyro'd or not.
I would be interested to know a bit more about this. Is there a reference you could point to?
I've embellished my post now to give more detail.
I'm no expert of course, just what I've read previously about it all.
I have absolutely no idea what my Oyaide cables are made of, I believe them to be classed as 5N silver cable whatever that may be..., but to be honest I don't really care what they are made of
What I do know is that the Mark Grant Oyaide Silver interconnects and digi cables do 'something' in my system that is totally addictive... that's all I know :)
Well that's a better way to see things! Cables should be like cigarettes in Australia or soviet era products; all branding plain and no marketting, maybe delivered in a brown envelope.
Then just before you die, someone reveals the construction of your favourites..
Ninanina
21-03-2014, 01:41
In a controlled test (unspecified, only theoretical, because even that causes arguements) I bet no-one could tell the difference between 4N and 5N and cyro'd or not.
Nat you are probably absolutely correct in what you say
All I can do is report on what I am hearing and experiencing with my current silver interconnects.... whether they are better than 4N etc I don't much care for as long as I am happy with what I have... and I am VERY happy with what I have and can recommend the same to other peeps as well
If you have not heard pure silver cables in your own system why not give it a go? I did and I wouldn't (at the moment) go back to copper cables
Just my findings and IMO... :D
Nat my post just missed your last one.... :doh: oh well I'll let it stand ...
Nat my post just missed your last one.... :doh: oh well I'll let it stand ...
Yeah, let it stand - all relevent.
People can make their own you know, €32 per 0.5m
http://eden-audio.com/shop/index.php?id_product=98&controller=product&id_lang=1 but those WBTs are damn expensive! at about £40 each (which doesn't sound too bad until you buy four) so might be worth people trying it out with plugs they already have.
Wakefield Turntables
21-03-2014, 10:03
RANT MODE ON
Here's my take.
I can't tell the difference bewteen 3, 4, or 5N silver.
I can't tell the difference bewteen cryo'd and normal silver.
I can tell the difference between silver and copper.
I like the sound of silver over copper.
I don't give a monkies about any variables.
I have followed too many threads and posted too many wasted comments on this subject.
All that matters is the music coming through cables.
RANT MODE OFF
Indeed I agree.
If there's one thing which wastes more time in trying to hear the differences between tiny variations, it's the arguing about them on forums! By the time you've finished posting, you could have written an essay on every single sonic factor when listening to a 5N cable and then 4N.
I'm not sure about silver speaker cables yet. I've some once very expensive Silver Arrow silver ribbon speaker cables which came unmentioned with a system I bought ages ago (and some Silver Audio interconnects, digital cable and 3 mains cables probably worth as much as the system) - 5m each side so probably was near a couple of grand, but system was once owned by a Silver Audio employee - and I've become supersticious (no time to spell, got to go to work in a min) in that I think they're better but no idea if they are.
Got it in my head they are more lush so I just use them and don't worry about it, no point as it all sounds great.
Then again my other cables are some solid core copper and the banana plugs are just annoying as the cable is so stiff they kind of fall out if you're not careful..
Still, something I do hate and like to rant about is false claims from manufacturers and then the knock-on effect of that mis-info becoming "fact" via marketing repetition.
Wakefield Turntables
21-03-2014, 18:28
Why even bother having banana plugs? cable directly hardwired into speakers IMHO is better, get rid of the binding posts and no need for RCA's / Banana plugs etc. You cut out more components in your signal path and save money as well. I did this experiment with my celestion ditton 15XR's and I loved the result.
They were already made and especially the Silver Arrow cables couldn't be used like that without probably destroying the multiple silver ribbons. Problem with bare cables is when it comes to trying out amps and speakers and how connecting and disconnecting gradually destroys the bare ends and then of course the oxidisation if they're not being used.. And then not all speakers have good binding posts hard to clamp tight, some plastic ones break if you tighten too much too often, some are close together which risks shorting out the amp with stray strands etc etc.
Good banana connectors are worth it in my opinion for convenience. Not all designs are good though.
The Black Adder
21-03-2014, 21:08
Why even bother having banana plugs? cable directly hardwired into speakers IMHO is better, get rid of the binding posts and no need for RCA's / Banana plugs etc. You cut out more components in your signal path and save money as well. I did this experiment with my celestion ditton 15XR's and I loved the result.
But for most that's hard to live with and you could damage kit if you move things about and the cabling isn't secured properly... You will lose some signal using plugs but if you use quality solid copper binding posts, eg. Cardas solid copper which I use on my kit and builds, gold over copper sockets etc the difference is bugger all. The trouble is that a lot of plugs/sockets out there are simply not up to scratch imo. Well not if you have a lot in the chain that is.
Wakefield Turntables
21-03-2014, 22:08
Fair enough.
Sovereign
22-03-2014, 09:15
Interesting thread.
I just bought some solid core silver cable from hifi Collective to wire up my DAC
Interesting thread.
I just bought some solid core silver cable from hifi Collective to wire up my DAC
and which DAC would that be mate? :lol:
Sovereign
22-03-2014, 10:05
Hi David, I have just assembled my DIY DDDAC......finally, and plan to bling it up a little with some silver cable.
Thanks for your loan DAC, Firestone audio.
For the record, your Firestone Audio love thaiwan DAC with separate PSU blew the pants off my heavily modded MDAC. I couldn't believe it when I plugged it in to the system.
Ninanina
22-03-2014, 18:44
Interesting thread.
I just bought some solid core silver cable from hifi Collective to wire up my DAC
Which silver cable did you buy from Hifi Collective James?
Ninanina
28-03-2014, 23:48
Anyone actually using silver speaker cable?
I'm totally sold on my pure silver interconnects but not tried silver speaker cables as yet
PaulStewart
29-03-2014, 01:00
Hi Bev,
I use the SilverSounds cable from the USA which was one of the first pure silver cables I got them in the late 90s. They use a silver and PTFE construction and honestly I've never heard better. I have loads of other speaker cables, I have here at the moment, QED XT400, Van Den Hul, hybrid cable, Black Rhodium and others over the years I've tried these and loads more and I always come back to the pure silver.
Ninanina
29-03-2014, 01:07
Hi Bev,
I use the SilverSounds cable from the USA which was one of the first pure silver cables I got them in the late 90s. They use a silver and PTFE construction and honestly I've never heard better. I have loads of other speaker cables, I have here at the moment, QED XT400, Van Den Hul, hybrid cable, Black Rhodium and others over the years I've tried these and loads more and I always come back to the pure silver.
Thanks Paul
Whereabouts can I purchase them from?
Thanks
Bev
I have also tried silver cables - for about half an hour !! Any more and I would be a lot poor now.
Tom Willis from Art Audio came down, I think with a Reference phono stage he made for me (silver wired), and he brought down his silver cables. I use TQ Ultra Black and we swapped in silver cables bi-wired. It was a jaw-dropping experience, particularly the depth and tightness of the bass, but overall more revealing. Just that much more life. No sharpness anywhere.
http://www.artaudio.co.uk/contact.php
What amazed me was that I did not think my speakers capable of such a sound (PMC Fact8).
Tom is very much of the view of other comments on this thread, it boils down to the thickness and quality of the silver, which determines the price, as the vast majority of the cost is in the metal. He suggested it is not difficult to fabricate silver cables properly, it is not rocket science, but it can be messed up. Termination is vitally important.
I think there is probably better value for money to be had getting speakers right first, silver cables wold be the icing on an already pretty spectacular cake.
I had a chat with him later and we were looking at Artisan Silver cables website http://www.artisansilvercables.com/intro.htm
They also sell direct, to order.
I think we came to the conclusion the prices were fairly similar given the metal content, except Tom's are thicker with more strands.
I use some Silver Arrow Reference cables, a previous implementation of the current "Daddy Reference" which uses 4N silver foils (about 4mm wide ribbons really).
http://www.s-arrowcables.com/page6.html
just came with a system I bought a few years ago which was a nice surprise as the new versions are £600/m and read as if they are identitcal, which makes my 5m pair £6000 :rolf: but the system did previously belong to someone who started up Silver Arrow apparently and the owner I bought the system off just saw them as cables (and so did I until I got home and googled). That's my explaination as to why I have such apparently expensive speaker cables rather than endorsing their price.
Anyway, I've not really done much A/B comparison as I find it boring but I do get a feeling of something a bit missing when I go to something else like a lessening of image depth, openness and lushness. But I can't say I've not imagined it either..
Sovereign
29-03-2014, 16:24
Very interesting thread
I have read almost all of this website, http://www.artisansilvercables.com/intro.htm, I may be wrong but it appears each product uses exactly the same Teflon covered silver cable.
I am very interested in making my own cables, does anyone know where to buy these silver strands?
brian2957
29-03-2014, 16:26
Try hificollective James http://www.hificollective.co.uk/
Sovereign
29-03-2014, 16:44
Fantastic, thanks.
What would you recormend for mains, interconnect and speaker cables?
brian2957
29-03-2014, 17:18
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/wire.html#hook
The Neotech silver OCC wire is very good . Around 0.4mm should be good for interconnects . I've never made speaker cable or mains cable but imagine you would need a (lot of) thicker cable for this . Probably better buying these ready made James . Maybe some of the other guys can offer some advice on these.
Sovereign
29-03-2014, 17:32
Fantastico!
Wakefield Turntables
29-03-2014, 17:45
Ive used 3.5mm solid silver for power leads and 1.5mm for IC's. I'm very happy with my results. Sometimes it pays to buy IC's from dealers. Yannis Tome, Paul at RFC & Mark Grant should be your first stops (in no particular order).
walpurgis
29-03-2014, 17:49
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-5m-Solid-Pure-Silver-0-4mm-6-Wire-Litz-Cable/181105776014?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222003%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D20892%26meid%3D5831956404338607789%26pid%3D 100005%26prg%3D9312%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D1712 54439545&rt=nc
Sovereign
29-03-2014, 19:17
Nice one Geoff
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