UWE Ebony Headshell

[MartinT]

On the basis that Speedy Steve's ebony armboard is the best I've used on the Technics, I've ordered a UWE ebony headshell (hard to find, but I've tracked the distributor down) in order to find out whether ebony does something similar at the end of my Dynavector arm. I will report on it when I've received it in 2-3 weeks' time as it's being made for me.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nHa6JzmORgQ/UV1_y2LaYMI/AAAAAAAAp7E/trlwuKanydE/s320/IMG_2320.JPG

[Ali Tait]

Be interested in your conclusions Martin.

[Marco]

Very interesting, Martin. I like your thinking!

However, you'll also have to bear in mind the effect of mass, as I suspect thet the UWE headshells (being wooden) are rather lighter than your Dynavector headshell, which is something your Shelter may or may not like...

Anyway, the proof of the pudding, as ever, will be in the listening, so I look forward to reading your findings :cool:

Marco.

[NRG]

I went for the Panzerholz version being the heaviest and more neutral sounding but, I thought Uwe had stopped making them...if you have source Martin please share it!

PDF on the headshells:

http://www.theanalogdept.com/images/spp6_pics/Classifieds/Uwe%20Bodies/Bodies3-1.pdf

Edit: Ooops I see you said headshell...forget the above!

[The Grand Wazoo]

There's Ebony and there are other woods masquerading as Ebony.
Also, there is Ebony from heavily plundered and now rare species to consider, such as Diospyros mun which is classed as critically endangered.
Buyer beware Martin!

Ebony has a very high density for a timber - up to 1.3 tonnes/cubic metre. However, the Dynavector headshell is made of an aluminium alloy, which will be something like 2.7-2.8 tonnes/cubic metre, so a good bit more.

[MartinT]

Here's the distributor's info. I'm hoping it's the real deal as they claim:
http://calamightysound.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/uwe-state-of-art-headshells-and.html

I got the tip from TONEAudio magazine.

[Magna Audio]

They look nice.

African blackwood could also be good.
I understand clarinets, oboes are made out of it - prized for its sound properties in musical instruments.
The one to watch out for that could masquerade is perhaps Wenge - fraction of the price of ebony or african blackwood. Nasty dust and splinters when working it though.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Who remembers the African Blackwood related AoS tom-foolery on this thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?7615-Flutes-The-Subjective-Objective-Debate-Raging-in-the-Parallel-Universe) from 2010?

[Marco]

Here's the distributor's info. I'm hoping it's the real deal as they claim:
http://calamightysound.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/uwe-state-of-art-headshells-and.html

I got the tip from TONEAudio magazine.

Cheers for the link - interesting...

Yup, as I thought, the ebony one weighs only 10.4g. I reckon that the stock headshell on your Dynavector is more like 14g, so I suspect that whatever sonic gains you get from the use of ebony (and I'm certain there will be some), the shortfall in mass will have to be made up somehow, in order to maintain the symbiosis you currently have between your arm and cartridge.

Well done for trying this, though. I shall be watching with interest, and I hope it works out well :cool:

Marco.

[MartinT]

I still have a cartridge weight supplied with one of my old cartridges - it only weighs 1g but could form a template for me to shape one from a heavier non-magnetic metal.

[Marco]

No worries, Martin. Hopefully you won't need it, but at least you know what to do if necessary :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

They look nice.

African blackwood could also be good.

Do you have the tooling to make headshells, Steve? I wonder where you could source the SME style connector?
It hadn't occurred to me to ask you, but it's the sort of thing that I'm sure you could apply yourself to.

[Magna Audio]

PM'd you.


Do you have the tooling to make headshells, Steve? I wonder where you could source the SME style connector?
It hadn't occurred to me to ask you, but it's the sort of thing that I'm sure you could apply yourself to.

[MartinT]

Thanks, Steve.

These Thomas Schick graphite headshells also look interesting:
http://calamightysound.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/schick-graphite-headshell-midas-round.html

[Tarzan]

Wow! Looks like some interesting stuff there.

[MartinT]

The UWE headshell has arrived and it's a work of art. Photos don't do it justice as it has a wonderful off-black sheen. I have no time this weekend and I want to swap the Shelter onto it very carefully, so I'll get it up and running next week. I'm not yet sure if I can swap over my Nerve Audio headshell leads, which I would prefer to do if possible. More later.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2870/12385628523_96fdc479bc_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinwtaylor/12385628523/)
UWE Ebony Headshell Top (http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinwtaylor/12385628523/) by martinwtaylor (http://www.flickr.com/people/martinwtaylor/), on Flickr

[Marco]

Nice, Martin... That's a proper 'man-sized' fingerlift, too!

Marco.

[Marco]

Incidentally, if the mass is out slightly, and you want to add a little more, you may wish to try using one of these: http://www.cabezon.eu/product_info.php?products_id=265

I reckon that would work really well (and also blend into the aesthetic of your new headshell) :)

Marco.

[Marco]

Have you fitted it yet? :)

Marco.

[MartinT]

I have tomorrow off and will do it then. Not something I wanted to rush.

[Marco]

No problemo - I'm just keen to know what you think :cool:

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Would one of these be any use in a SME 3012, I'm messing with my Garrard 301 and this looks a nice upgrade! I've fixed head shell on the 1210 so I cant partake in the fun. :(

[calamean]

Are you using the original SME headshell for your 103? If so the Uwe headshells will be of great help.

In fact I would even go to the either Panzerholz or Snakewood as they are slightly heavier than the ebony as from personal experience I always found that best combination for the 103 on the 3012 came with headshells between 12g to 15g.

Wood headshells do provide something that metal headshell have not but if you are on low budget I strongly recommend these http://www.ebay.fr/itm/New-Audio-Technica-AT-LH15-OCC-Headshell-Japan-Best-Deal-/191034127496?pt=US_Record_Player_Turntable_Parts&hash=item2c7a857488 (I have no link whatsoever with this dealer but it is a good example).

Of course if you are with higher budget limit than go for the Schick graphite headshell ( http://calamightysound.blogspot.fr/2013/12/thomas-schick-graphite-headshell-is.html (http://calamightysound.blogspot.fr/2013/12/thomas-schick-graphite-headshell-is.html )) ). It is hard not to refrain writing how good it is but as I am distributor of this product... I will say nothing more. ;)

[MartinT]

I was looking at the Schick headshell too, Francois. It certainly looks interesting and I may try one later on. For now, I will play with the ebony headshell. I'm not so worried about mass as the Shelter (unlike the Denon) is itself a very heavy body and may not need extra mass. I also don't want to use a spacer as I want the cartridge to be well clamped to the wood for damping.

Andy: it's a standard SME fit headshell so should work fine.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks for the speedt supplied chaps, looks like some more will be spent pretty soon. ;)

[MartinT]

I took my time swapping the Shelter over to the beautiful UWE ebony headshell, knowing that any variation in alignment could account for any differences I might hear. I used the same hex head bolts, plastic washers and small round bolts (due to the constraints of the Shelter's shaped flutes) and left the UWE headshell leads in place on Francois' advice. The Dynavector alignment tool and tiny bubble level came in handy to get alignment and azimuth spot on (I released the tiny grub screw in the headshell in order to fine tune the azimuth). It took some considerable sub-arm re-balancing on account of the UWE headshell being lighter than the smaller metal Dynavector headshell. Saying that, the Shelter is a heavy cartridge and, I think, provides its own mass. I left the tracking weight set at 1.9g.

It sounds different, too. The slight edginess/hardness of the Dynavector headshell has gone, replaced by a more neutral, detailed and effortless sound. Some of the cymbal/brush work must have been obscured as I now have better insight into percussion play and the nature of the cymbals used. This isn't warm at all, it's just that the ebony is doing for the cartridge what Speedy Steve's ebony armboard does for the arm itself, allowing it to shine while providing a more optimum interface with some resonance control/absorption. I am glad there hasn't been any tonal slant as I very much liked what I was getting before, but now more fine detail is apparent and more soundstage cues, things that only enhance the music for me.

There has been no loss in dynamics, something that the Dynavector/Shelter combination excels at. Nor is there any loss in bass depth or power, as I expected due to the Shelter's weight and the not inconsiderable eddy current damping of the arm itself. I am pleased at this level of improvement and the UWE ebony headshell is definitely staying in my system. For a reasonable €105, this is a lovely piece of hand-crafted work. It should be worth experimenting with the snakewood (gorgeous) and panzerholz versions, also available from Cala.

Apologies for the dust (it's not as bad as the photo suggests)...

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7413/12480756254_bb9001c196_o.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinwtaylor/12480756254/)
UWE Headshell (http://www.flickr.com/photos/martinwtaylor/12480756254/) by martinwtaylor (http://www.flickr.com/people/martinwtaylor/), on Flickr

[Marco]

Excellent, Martin. Looks really good! Glad it's worked out well :)

I've been championing the benefits of upgrading to bespoke-made detachable headshells for years, for those with suitable arms, as in most cases, the ones provided by the tonearm manufacturer are no more than 'adequate for purpose', and often just simply rubbish.

Enjoy the music, although doubtless that there will be some more fine-tuning to come! ;)

Marco.

[blake]

Martin:

Is Uwe still using a two pin junction on these (a guide/holding pin on both the top and bottom)?

[MartinT]

Is Uwe still using a two pin junction on these (a guide/holding pin on both the top and bottom)?

No, it's a single pin to maintain compatibility with all arms. However, the joint is very firm with the locking collar done up tight, and I don't think the pin has any bearing on security except for maintaining the azimuth.

[Kember]

Another source of ebony (and other) headshells in Yamamoto. I was put onto this brand by American audiophile friends of mine.

As you will have seen elsewhere, I have imported a Yamamoto Sound Craft cartridge with an ebony body.

Yamamoto also make an interesting range of wooden headshells and other goodies for those who are interested....

http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/base-9P-e.html


Quite reasonably priced, even allowing for duty and VAT, too:

Ebony here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamamoto-Sound-Craft-HS-1As-African-ebony-Headshell-with-6N-Copper-shell-lead-/200990672769?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ecbfa4781

Full range here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=yamamoto+headshell&_nkwusc=yamamote+headshell&_rdc=1

P

[MartinT]

They look nice too, Peter. Anyone fancy trying one?

[Ali Tait]

I fancy giving this one a go that was pointed out by someone on here. I mailed to seller to confirm it has adjustable azimuth-

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ISOKINETIK-GRAPHITE-THE-ULTIMATE-HEADSHELL-FOR-SME-JELCO-AND-ALL-HI-END-TONEARMS-/181170664910?ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

[Ali Tait]

Another source of ebony (and other) headshells in Yamamoto. I was put onto this brand by American audiophile friends of mine.

As you will have seen elsewhere, I have imported a Yamamoto Sound Craft cartridge with an ebony body.

Yamamoto also make an interesting range of wooden headshells and other goodies for those who are interested....

http://www2.117.ne.jp/~y-s/base-9P-e.html


Quite reasonably priced, even allowing for duty and VAT, too:

Ebony here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamamoto-Sound-Craft-HS-1As-African-ebony-Headshell-with-6N-Copper-shell-lead-/200990672769?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ecbfa4781

Full range here:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=yamamoto+headshell&_nkwusc=yamamote+headshell&_rdc=1

P

Wonder what titanium would be like?

[MartinT]

I think I'll stick to wood for the moment as that is giving me the performance I want. I can't help but think that the titanium one would sound, well, hard!

[Kember]

I think I'll stick to wood for the moment as that is giving me the performance I want. I can't help but think that the titanium one would sound, well, hard!

Martin,

Agree but how nice it would be to do a full comparison of the woodies!

P

[Marco]

There's an answer to that, but I won't go there... :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Kember]

There's an answer to that, but I won't go there... :eyebrows:

Marco.

Oooh Matron!

[Magna Audio]

I am going to have to DIY myself either an ebony or African Blackwood one of these (which ever is the more dense) and see if I like it.
I can build in mass to maintain the same weight as the FR64s shell I like so much.
This will only be a one off - nothing commercial.
If I ever get lots of time on my hands perhaps an ebony SPU bodied headshell hehe...

[Marco]

Lol - now *that* would be fun!! :eek: :eyebrows:

Marco.

[cuddles]

That titanium headshell looks the business doesn't it?

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m262/mumblescuddles/headshell_zpsfe76428b.jpg (http://s106.photobucket.com/user/mumblescuddles/media/headshell_zpsfe76428b.jpg.html)

The more I look at it the more I like it. A perfect match for a Technics - in a Thunderbirds way :)

[MartinT]

Visually, I agree. However, it remains to be seen if it sounds as good as it looks. Also, I don't like having to compromise alignment so severely with only fixed holes to choose from.

[Marco]

Actually, having used similar headshells in the past, I've never found that to be a problem, as the pre-drilled holes are usually very carefully considered. One set of holes, IME, always corresponds to correct alignment using one's preferred geometry.

Furthermore, said very precisely measured holes lock the cartridge into position, and so nail azimuth dead. There is simply no margin for error (other than a small amount of 'play' in the mating between the detachable headshell and the arm).

Marco.

[NRG]

Azimuth? I think you mean offset angle. Fixed holes with a fixed arm base is not a good idea, it may work if the arm base is adjustable but they do not allow for offset angle adjustment or fine tuning of overhang with a fixed arm base arm.

[Marco]

Soz, yes, offset angle... In theory what you say makes sense, Neal, but in practice I've never found it to be an issue.

Jeez, with my SPU (housed inside its fixed headshell) and my fixed arm-base tonearm, all I can do is plug the cartridge in and adjust VTA, VTF and anti-skate, so the results must be pretty disastrous, eh!! ;)

Marco.

[blake]

Azimuth? I think you mean offset angle. Fixed holes with a fixed arm base is not a good idea, it may work if the arm base is adjustable but they do not allow for offset angle adjustment or fine tuning of overhang with a fixed arm base arm.

Exactly. I wouldn't be interested in that headshell if someone gave it to me. The likelihood of achieving an excellent alignment with it is about the same as winning the lottery.

Fixed arm base or not, in the event that one wants to align using a different alignment geometry than originally intended by the tonearm manufacturer (which I do and is fairly common) it is physically impossible to account for the change in offset angle. A very poor design IMO.

[Barry]

Soz, yes, offset angle... In theory what you say makes sense, Neal, but in practice I've never found it to be an issue.

Jeez, with my SPU (housed inside its fixed headshell) and my fixed arm-base tonearm, all I can do is plug the cartridge in and adjust VTA, VTF and anti-skate, so the results must be pretty disastrous, eh!! ;)

Marco.

Not at all! - the Ortofon/Jelco arm will have been designed to work optimally with the SPU. If the arm has been fitted in the right place (i.e. the TT spindle to arm bearing centre is correct and as quoted by the arm manufacturer) and the SPU has been designed with the correct stylus to bayonet connector flange distance, the effective arm length will be correct as too will be the offset angle.

So "no probs" at all. In fact, such 'integrated' arm/cartridge designs (the EMT 929/TSD, Decca ffss and B&O systems being others) have the advantage that everything is more or less set up automatically: arm/cartridge alignment, VTA, azimuth and sometimes even the VTF and antiskate bias.

[Marco]

Indeed, Barry! I trust you realise that my previous post was intended to be midly ironic? :eyebrows:

Personally, I prefer to minimise any necessity to 'fiddle', as it helps eliminate the neurosis!

Marco.

[Marco]

Exactly. I wouldn't be interested in that headshell if someone gave it to me. The likelihood of achieving an excellent alignment with it is about the same as winning the lottery.

Fixed arm base or not, in the event that one wants to align using a different alignment geometry than originally intended by the tonearm manufacturer (which I do and is fairly common) it is physically impossible to account for the change in offset angle. A very poor design IMO.

Looks like we're going to have to disagree on that one too, Blake! ;)

I've been using headshells like that for years (mainly with Denon DL-103s and Japanese arms) without any issues whatsoever. However, I prefer the holes to be on the underside of the headshell, rather than on top (as it keeps the top of the shell nice and 'clean looking'), as was the case with the lovely NOS Audio Technica LT-12 I sold recently:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/541/mcvt.jpg


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/716/lgyj.jpg


Trust me, that baby (on the end of either my old Jelco SA-750 or current Ortofon RS-212D) 'held back' the performance of my DL-103 not one iota!! Incidentally, magnesium (such is the construction of the above headshell) is also a superb material from which to make a headshell...

Marco.

P.S I've read your recent reply on the DL-103 thread - I'll get to it later.... :)

[NRG]

OK, I like the idea of an SPU on my PL-71. The Pivot to Spindle distance is 209mm, the SPU measures 52mm from stylus tip to back of headshell, exactly the same as the setting I use with my 103’s so the overhang will be the same.

Lets plug some numbers into the VinylEngine Calculator:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Parameters_1.png

And hit calculate:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Graph_1.png

Errr, where has the PL-71 plot gone? Well its hiding behind the LofgrenA (Baerwald) plot:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Chart_1.png

Hang on though, for LofgrenA the offset is near enough 24.3 deg meaning I need to twist the cartridge…but I can’t, the SPU is fixed and the PL-71 arm has an offset of 23 deg.

OK, lets plugin the LofgrenA overhang and the PL-71 offset:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Parameters_2.png

And hit calculate:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Chart_2.png

Not good, not good at all. Unless I can adjust the Azimuth it just won’t work.

Now I know you use an Ortofon arm so this (I would hope!) is optimized for the SPU geometry as long as you stick to the manufacturers pivot to spindle distance but for any other arm that does not use the same offset and measurements it won't be optimal, not by a long shot. Think I’ll run those figures and see what happens…

[Marco]

Oh dear, graphs and shit.... Sorry, my eyes have just glazed over! ;)


Now I know you use an Ortofon arm so this (I would hope!) is optimized for the SPU geometry as long as you stick to the manufacturers pivot to spindle distance...


That is indeed the case, as Barry has already pointed out... My Ortofon arm exists primarly to optimise my SPU - and with the minimum of fuss! Less fuss/neurotic fiddling = more time for listening to music. Simples! :cool:

Marco.

[NRG]

I know you luv them... :D But you see my point? ;)

[Barry]

OK, I like the idea of an SPU on my PL-71. The Pivot to Spindle distance is 209mm, the SPU measures 52mm from stylus tip to back of headshell, exactly the same as the setting I use with my 103’s so the overhang will be the same.

Lets plug some numbers into the VinylEngine Calculator:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Parameters_1.png

And hit calculate:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Graph_1.png

Errr, where has the PL-71 plot gone? Well its hiding behind the LofgrenA (Baerwald) plot:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Chart_1.png

Hang on though, for LofgrenA the offset is near enough 24.3 deg meaning I need to twist the cartridge…but I can’t, the SPU is fixed and the PL-71 arm has an offset of 23 deg.

OK, lets plugin the LofgrenA overhang and the PL-71 offset:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Parameters_2.png

And hit calculate:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Chart_2.png

Not good, not good at all. Unless I can adjust the Azimuth it just won’t work.

Now I know you use an Ortofon arm so this (I would hope!) is optimized for the SPU geometry as long as you stick to the manufacturers pivot to spindle distance but for any other arm that does not use the same offset and measurements it won't be optimal, not by a long shot. Think I’ll run those figures and see what happens…

According to vinylengine's database, the Pioneer PL-71 has an effective arm length of 224mm with overhang of 14.5mm. That makes the splindle to arm base distance 209.5m.

The angular offset is not quoted but taking your figure, and assuming the Ortofon SPU has the correct stylus to headshell flange distance, such that the effective arm length of 224mm and angular offset of 23 degree is achieved, then the two null-points will be at a radius of 50.45mm and 124.6mm.

These null-point radii correspond to neither Loefgren, Baerwald nor to Stevenson (and are so far apart that such a geometry is far from optimum) - but the arm/SPU cartridge combination will work.

[blake]

Looks like we're going to have to disagree on that one too, Blake! ;)

I've been using headshells like that for years (mainly with Denon DL-103s and Japanese arms) without any issues whatsoever. However, I prefer the holes to be on the underside of the headshell, rather than on top (as it keeps the top of the shell nice and 'clean looking'), as was the case with the lovely NOS Audio Technica LT-12 I sold recently:


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/541/mcvt.jpg


http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/716/lgyj.jpg


Trust me, that baby (on the end of either my old Jelco SA-750 or current Ortofon RS-212D) 'held back' the performance of my DL-103 not one iota!! Incidentally, magnesium (such is the construction of the above headshell) is also a superb material from which to make a headshell...

Marco.

P.S I've read your recent reply on the DL-103 thread - I'll get to it later.... :)

Glad they worked for you Marco. As I prefer to align to Baerwald on my 750D that design would not work for me-physically impossible as I stated above. And as I don't want to be restricted to one cartridge or one alignment (although my preference is definitely Baerwald) and there is no universal bolt hole to stylus tip distance among cartridge manufacturers, I'd prefer not to do the Clint Eastwood alignment mambo-"do you feel lucky today?". :eyebrows:

We disagree on the Denon conical in terms of retipping the cartridge-I really have nothing more to say on that. At this stage it would be beating a dead horse.

[MartinT]

I do agree guys, my arm has a fixed base, therefore a slotted headshell is a must for optimum alignment.

Anyway, back to the UWE. I keep hearing great sounds from all the albums I've tried. This one definitely gets more out of the groove while presenting it in a highly detailed but non-harsh manner. Best of both worlds for me.

[MikeMusic]

I took my time swapping the Shelter over to the beautiful UWE ebony headshell, knowing that any variation in alignment could account for any differences I might hear. I used the same hex head bolts, plastic washers and small round bolts (due to the constraints of the Shelter's shaped flutes) and left the UWE headshell leads in place on Francois' advice. The Dynavector alignment tool and tiny bubble level came in handy to get alignment and azimuth spot on (I released the tiny grub screw in the headshell in order to fine tune the azimuth). It took some considerable sub-arm re-balancing on account of the UWE headshell being lighter than the smaller metal Dynavector headshell. Saying that, the Shelter is a heavy cartridge and, I think, provides its own mass. I left the tracking weight set at 1.9g.

It sounds different, too. The slight edginess/hardness of the Dynavector headshell has gone, replaced by a more neutral, detailed and effortless sound. Some of the cymbal/brush work must have been obscured as I now have better insight into percussion play and the nature of the cymbals used. This isn't warm at all, it's just that the ebony is doing for the cartridge what Speedy Steve's ebony armboard does for the arm itself, allowing it to shine while providing a more optimum interface with some resonance control/absorption. I am glad there hasn't been any tonal slant as I very much liked what I was getting before, but now more fine detail is apparent and more soundstage cues, things that only enhance the music for me.

There has been no loss in dynamics, something that the Dynavector/Shelter combination excels at. Nor is there any loss in bass depth or power, as I expected due to the Shelter's weight and the not inconsiderable eddy current damping of the arm itself. I am pleased at this level of improvement and the UWE ebony headshell is definitely staying in my system. For a reasonable €105, this is a lovely piece of hand-crafted work. It should be worth experimenting with the snakewood (gorgeous) and panzerholz versions, also available from Cala.



Sounds a good move.
I don't think I could consider doing the work though
Combination of laziness and at least perceived lack of competence

[MikeMusic]

I've also subsequently heard the SPU in Mike's system on his Jelco, where it also sounds excellent.
That's the Isobariks doing all that !
:)

[NRG]

According to vinylengine's database, the Pioneer PL-71 has an effective arm length of 224mm with overhang of 14.5mm. That makes the splindle to arm base distance 209.5m.

The angular offset is not quoted but taking your figure, and assuming the Ortofon SPU has the correct stylus to headshell flange distance, such that the effective arm length of 224mm and angular offset of 23 degree is achieved, then the two null-points will be at a radius of 50.45mm and 124.6mm.

These null-point radii correspond to neither Loefgren, Baerwald nor to Stevenson (and are so far apart that such a geometry is far from optimum) - but the arm/SPU cartridge combination will work.

But is doesn't have the correct flange to stylus distance hence the large error. As for it 'working' we'll that's not my idea of working!

[Marco]

See my above posts, Neal, and worry not about your 'flange'! :lol:

Marco.

[NRG]

You are getting the wrong end of the stick. Nowhere did I say it would not work in the 750D, so Im not shocked at all :lol: Here is the chart, stay awake(!) for the 750D, its fine:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Jelco_750D_stock_setup.png

My little exercise posted earlier was to highlight that fixed hole or non adjustable headshells do not work correctly for all instances, I would certainly never buy one, they would be a disaster for the two DD decks I have. No, what is slightly shocking is Barry thinking the SPU would work on my PL-71 :scratch: Theres 'working' and theres 'working' ! Optimally!

BTW this is the chart for the standard Pioneer settings for the PL-71:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/PL-71_standard_setup_error.png

[Marco]

Okies... I'm not sure that's quite what Barry was saying, though. However, he can clear that up himself later.

At least it shows that fixed headshell cartridges can work very well indeed in fixed arm-base tonearms (when the correct pivot-to-spindle distance, as stated by the tonearm manufacturer) has been determined on the arm board.

I much prefer that arrangement, as I'm not a geometry fetishist, nor someone who gets hung up over measurements/technicalities. I simply want to listen to superb sounding music, with the minimum of fuss.

Anyway, a certain infamous amp designer (one could say a 'Dunderhead') uses an SPU with his PL-71, and claims it sounds superb!! ;)

Marco.

[Barry]

You are getting the wrong end of the stick. Nowhere did I say it would not work in the 750D, so Im not shocked at all :lol: Here is the chart, stay awake(!) for the 750D, its fine:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/Jelco_750D_stock_setup.png

My little exercise posted earlier was to highlight that fixed hole or non adjustable headshells do not work correctly for all instances, I would certainly never buy one, they would be a disaster for the two DD decks I have. No, what is slightly shocking is Barry thinking the SPU would work on my PL-71 :scratch: There's 'working' and there's 'working' ! Optimally!

BTW this is the chart for the standard Pioneer settings for the PL-71:

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l82/_NRG_/other/PL-71/PL-71_standard_setup_error.png

I said it would work, in the sense the arm/cartridge combination would track - no more, no less. I didn't say it would be anything like an optimum arrangement, indeed when I calculated the radii of two null-points, I commented they were too far apart for the geometry to be optimal. Yes, I know 50.45mm lies within the DIN or the ISO suggested minimum radius and is too close to the record centre, but the point of my post was that you had entered the wrong information about your PL-71 into the vinylengine calculator and hence came up with a distortion curve that at no point touched the 0% axis.

You claimed you were able to align your Denon 103 mounted in the PL-71 to Baerwald, and then went on to say that the stylus to headshell flange distance for an SPU was the same as that for the Denon. If that is true, then you ought to be able to align the SPU/PL-71 combination to Baerwald. The fact that you cannot, as has been shown, suggests you are incorrect in your assumption of the effective arm length and/or of the offset angle. Is the offset angle quoted in the specification for the PL-71? I cannot find it recorded anywhere.

[Barry]

But it doesn't have the correct flange to stylus distance hence the large error. As for it 'working' we'll that's not my idea of working!

You said it did (in the first sentence of post 49). :scratch:

[Magna Audio]

I've not really bothered with alignment gauges for ages - having a SPU / fixed headshell I always set the spindle to pivot as per O.E spec and fit and forget.
The SPU worked just fine for me on the PL-71 I had.
The PL-71 arm (Acos manufactured and widely agreed as better than their Lustre model), sounded even better when mounted on my modded SL-1210 again with SPU (This was with a Silver Meister SPU - not a cuddly spherical stylus you'll note!).
I Briefly had that arm mounted on SP-10 with said SPU and then got into 12" arms, my own creation, and then a modded PL-71 (Acos) arm and Rega modded R200, both converted to 12" by me. Again using correct spindle to pivot for the arm type gave excellent results.

Now I have an FR64s with either the Silver Meister (fixed) or SPU Royal N on a FR64 headshell, the latter is adjustable as its a SPU cart that you can mount in normal headshells (well normal in format but they need to have a combined cart and headshell mass of 30 - 32g for the cart to work properly:eyebrows:).

Both carts sound great (the spindle to pivot distance is of course Fidelity Research O.E spec'd.
They sound slightly different. The Silver Meister has an elliptical stylus and all silver windings. The Royal N is gold on silver winding with a Replikant B stylus profile.

I forget which alignment tool I used to set the Royal N up in the headshell but will check the alignment again now and report back how / if it differs from the Silver Meister.

The PL-71 arm has a short Spindle to pivot at 209.5mm! I too fell asleep looking at the charts and perhaps did not read all thoroughly enough - do the charts above show readings of an adjustable headshell optimised compared with a SPU? - forgive me if I missed this bit!
If they don't, then I don't get what they show.

Some of the arms I have dealt with are / have spindle to pivot distances : Linn / Alphason 211mm, Ortofon typically 212 - 214mm, Rega / Mikro Seiki 222mm, Dynavector 226mm, Fidelity Research 245mm.

12" arms I have used have used SME 12" geometry at 294mm. 12" arms have lower distortion figures (some claims of 20% less)! BUT 20% less of not a lot, is not much to our distortion tolerant ears!
They have a very clean sound, great bass and fantastic highs but lack drive and aggression in the mid freqs. also need a bigger deck etc etc.

So the longer the arm the lower the distortion?

Why are we not all using very long arms? I guess the answer is that some distortion adds to what folk like.
Also the other quality aspects of arms make a huge difference - bigger than tiny increases in tiny amounts of distortion meknowns!

Perhaps because many of our speaker transducers have much higher distortion figures!
The human ear is very tolerant of distortion - we even like it in certain circumstances, added timbre and tone?
Some types of speaker drivers have lower distortion than others.

Just thought I throw that into the mix:)

[NRG]

I said it would work, in the sense the arm/cartridge combination would track - no more, no less. I didn't say it would be anything like an optimum arrangement, indeed when I calculated the radii of two null-points, I commented they were too far apart for the geometry to be optimal. Yes, I know 50.45mm lies within the DIN or the ISO suggested minimum radius and is too close to the record centre, but the point of my post was that you had entered the wrong information about your PL-71 into the vinylengine calculator and hence came up with a distortion curve that at no point touched the 0% axis.

You claimed you were able to align your Denon 103 mounted in the PL-71 to Baerwald, and then went on to say that the stylus to headshell flange distance for an SPU was the same as that for the Denon. If that is true, then you ought to be able to align the SPU/PL-71 combination to Baerwald. The fact that you cannot, as has been shown, suggests you are incorrect in your assumption of the effective arm length and/or of the offset angle. Is the offset angle quoted in the specification for the PL-71? I cannot find it recorded anywhere.

Sorry Barry I'm not incorrect in any assumption, my data for my PL-71 is from careful direct measurement. I have checked and rechecked the offset and also the pivot to spindle distance and I'm sure of my measurements. In case my method was in some way floored I've checked two other decks of mine and these tally with the published data. My 103 does align to LofgrenA (Baerwald) IEC, for the SPU to align to to the same it would need a different offset and as you can't change the SPU offset, it won't line up.

Edit: I'll post no more on this thread as its obviously not going in a positive direction. Apologies to Martin for taking it in a negative direction.

[Magna Audio]

Oops, for correctness the FR64s has a spindle to pivot of 230mm.

[MartinT]

Confirmed the Dynavector has a spindle to pivot length of 226mm with an effective length of 241mm, making it a 9.5" arm in old money. The tracking error is quoted at -1.1° to +2.2°.