How to take my Open Baffle to the next level

[John]

The one thing I never been truly happy with in my open baffles is the treble extension if I compare them to Martin T users they come up a bit short with regards to treble extension.
What they do better than most speakers is upper bass where all the energy of the music is, in other words the slam like the TAD reference 1. Its a very addictive listen and one I wish to keep.
I have a few options to think through
Sell the Hawthorne's and build some open baffles using some Alpairs 12p with Goldwoods 18" bass drivers and have active control the major issue with this is that selling the Hawthorne's I really like them and they be hard to sell as to big for most homes and hardly anyone knows what they can do The Alpairs with the Goldwins will give me about 95% of that slam and do nearly everything else a bit better
Add a super tweeter (I worry about how it will integrate)
Change the compression driver (this would mean changing the crossover but it be a good opportunity to get something like a mini dsp and go active
I open to other suggestions as the best way forward

[Ali Tait]

You run actively yes? If you like your speakers, keep them and add a supertweeter. Shouldn't be too difficult to implement, though you need another two channels of amplification of course. Been thinking about doing this myself. Did you notice any lack of extention with the A12p?

[John]

Extension wise in the treble they pretty good and no harshness. They really take you into the music very intimate but yet live sounding. The bass was cutting in around 150 to 160 and the Goodwoods 18" seemed to really gel well in a open baffle with the A12p
With regards to going active I am only active in the bass so it would mean getting another bantam and using the Mini DSP which I like because it gives a lot of control and would be simple to integrate. I could get a better compression driver for the treble and hopefully get the treble I wish
I would like to try a super tweeter first but would need to hear it for a week in my system before deciding

[Ali Tait]

John, I've a set I can send you to try if you like. They are ribbons, and have adjustable sensitivity - 98 - 95 - 92db, and have two crossover frequencies - 14 and 16khz. Yours to try for the postage cost.

[John]

PM sent Ali this will at least let me know if this is the way to head

[YNWaN]

I have to say, I have yet to hear an open baffle speaker that has impressed me and often the owners have singled out, for praise, attributes I actually thought to be weaker elements of their presentation.

I built super-tweeters for my speakers and was very pleased with the results. Integrating such a design can be an issue, but then changing the tweeter for a different one is likely to present at least as much of an integration challenge.

[Ali Tait]

For me, I'd find it difficult to go back to box speakers now, they sound coloured to my ears.

[hoopsontoast]

What about the Radian 475PB drivers that HA offer as the upgraded model?
I had the 10" Silver Iris drivers a few years back, quite liked them :)
I had a play with the Radian 850PB CD driver recentley too, sounded VERY smooth while being as dynamic as you would expect from a horn loaded Mid-Treble.

[John]

I heard the Radian 475PB once (in the sterling 15") it was a bit recessed for my likings but perhaps trying it active might give me a bit more control I was thinking going higher up in the range
Like Ali I could not go back to box speakers apart from some very expensive speakers I hear to much colouration and would miss the bass detail I get
I guess we all hear things differently

[John]

Really thinking about getting a pair of these http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=BMATPL150&browsemode=category

[hoopsontoast]

Heard nothing but good things about them. Briefly heard them at one Scalford in a DIY system, Steve67 IIRC.

[John]

Cheers Rob

[The Grand Wazoo]

I think you're doing the right thing John, I'd certainly try to improve what you have rather than burn your bridges by going for a completely new pair of speakers. Your current pair do so much that you like, it'd be a shame to never know how far they can be taken.

[Welder]

I think you could integrate a better tweeter into your system without any problems John. You built your speakers I believe and you have an advantage over many in knowing exactly the type of sound you prefer and given your not computer shy, the tools to go about getting the numbers right, even if you have to do bit of fiddling with the crossovers as your ears get used to the extended/improved treble.

I certainly don’t mean to appear rude, but I believe your around my age :D and even if you can hear frequencies say above 16kHz, might not a better quality treble response within your hearing range be the better option. :eyebrows:

I personally am not a fan of trying to “bolt on” a super tweeter on an otherwise pretty much satisfactory speaker. As you write, it can pose more problems than it solves.

Good luck anyway. It won’t happen but yours is one of the very few systems I’ve read about I would be interested in hearing. :)

[John]

Yes Chris I love what these speakers do with rock which is still what I mainly listen too
The AMT drivers are very highly rated and should really shift air. I value speed, scale and resolution and this approach should improve that It might mean a rethink to my open baffles and the crossover my need to be updated so lots of learning about the best way to do that which is a bit scary I have the option of going active which would make life a bit easier that way

[John]

Hi John
Thanks for the feedback
The AMT drivers shift a lot of air a few people have gone done this route that I trust in the States with the drivers I use
Any suggestions around suitable drivers for our limited hearing John

[SPS]

Rob, thats me , Steve 57 over on the wam,
John my ob's will be at the wigwam show again this years.. Pop in
I have two pairs of these for both systems, they really show amplifiers for what they are,as they add very little, but are so fast and clean,

Getting the bass to match from a resolution point of view, and go low enough is the key to getting any Ob sounding correct,
I think yours where in the AOS room at scalford around 3 years ago.. If they are the same ones i thought it was the bottom end that needed some more extension, but thats me .. I was was very impressed with the rest of the sound
Did you bring some to an audio talk meet?
Steve..

[Sovereign]

Steve, I think we have the same OBs, I get confused from forum to forum, didn't I buy the NVA amps from you? The lampi open baffles I have are truly amazing and as john mentioned, the detail and seperation in the bass is just brilliant! I am a little side tracked with a DIY DDDAC at the moment but with the help of Paul at Reffic I plan to upgrade my xovers.

Rob, thats me , Steve 57 over on the wam,
John my ob's will be at the wigwam show again this years.. Pop in
I have two pairs of these for both systems, they really show amplifiers for what they are,as they add very little, but are so fast and clean,

Getting the bass to match from a resolution point of view, and go low enough is the key to getting any Ob sounding correct,
I think yours where in the AOS room at scalford around 3 years ago.. If they are the same ones i thought it was the bottom end that needed some more extension, but thats me .. I was was very impressed with the rest of the sound
Did you bring some to an audio talk meet?
Steve..

[John]

Steve you not heard my open Baffles as I have never taken them to any show
What they really excel in is the high bass where all the energy is I rarely heard anything that compare
James are you using the AMT drivers I know Steve (Electricbeach) was very impressed

[Sovereign]

Hi John,
I think they are Alpha's, they are the same bass drivers as Al's OBs
http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n533/SovereignKing/P1010669.jpg (http://s1138.photobucket.com/user/SovereignKing/media/P1010669.jpg.html)

[John]

Ahh very different to where I am thinking of going
Thanks for showing

[SPS]

Steve, I think we have the same OBs, I get confused from forum to forum, didn't I buy the NVA amps from you? The lampi open baffles I have are truly amazing and as john mentioned, the detail and seperation in the bass is just brilliant! I am a little side tracked with a DIY DDDAC at the moment but with the help of Paul at Reffic I plan to upgrade my xovers.
Sorry but i think i'm a different steve. The baffles you are using look good though

[John]

Well it has taken me awhile to upgrade my baffles.
I mostly been chatting to a guy on the Hawthorne Forum who convinced me to get the Radians 475PB Compression Drivers. It has taken awhile to get them and thanks to Ali I been using his Super Tweeters as a temporary solution to improve my treble response (Thank You Ali)
The Radians are about double the size and nearly 3 times the weight of the standard compression drivers I had to get a special adaptor plate to fit my current PSI drivers. I also had to wire in a 15 ohm resistor as the tweeters are more sensitive.
The tweeters are not yet fully bed in yet but already I am enjoying the extra detail. They also seem to help the bass giving more attack and texture. Not that my speakers are short in either of these departments
Its taken awhile to get to the next level
At the moment not feeling any desire to go active, which has been something I been toying with for awhile