Hearing problems! Do I keep The Hi-Fi?

[walpurgis]

My hearing in my right ear has always been slightly impared. Now, since recently suffering an injury (which I won't elaborate on) to my left ear, I have no hearing at all above about 6kHz to 7kHz in either ear at the moment and this is definitely affecting my listening enjoyment. Since the injury, the hearing in my left ear has largely come back over the last few weeks, but the top end is still missing. If it does not improve soon, I may abandon serious Hi-Fi.

[Macca]

What does the vet say? If you haven't seen a specialist might be worth making an appointment, find out where you stand.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'm really sorry to hear of this problem.
Abandoning the hi-fi? It sounds a bit rash to me if you don't mind me saying, Geoff.


.....affecting my listening enjoyment
If the problem is there to stay, I expect your brain will begin to adjust to what you're hearing and it won't seem quite so bad. However, you can be sure that nothing will affect your listening enjoyment more than having nothing to listen to!

[brian2957]

I'm in the same situation as you Geoff . Ears just worn out I'm afraid . I went and got my ears tested and was told I need hearing aids , but I'm not ready to go down that road yet . I made a decision to drastically downscale my system and sold off some of my stuff . However , like you , I've been enjoying my hifi and music for a very long time . It wasn't long before I began to miss music reproduced in a decent system . I'm afraid Ipods/MP3 players just didn't satisfy . I still run a very simple system - music server , Rega DAC , Bantam Gold amp and Rega EL8 speakers . I still crank it up when SWMBO is out and about . The thing is that I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't have the system . Downsize and maintain a smaller system mate , but my advice would be to maintain something or you may regret it . Sorry to hear about your hearing loss Geoff , but you will miss your system if you get rid of it totally .

[Barry]

Agree you ought to see an audiologist - to see where you stand. I don't know how old you are Geoff, but if you are still in your thirties, your hearing may repair itself if the damage was caused by exposure to a very high sound level.

Regardless of the outcome, do not dispense with your audio system, or replace it with one of a lower performance. Even though you may not be able to directly hear the high frequencies, you will still be aware of their presence.

Yes it will affect your listening enjoyment, but better some enjoyment than none at all!

Wishing you all the best for some recovery - let us know how you get on.

Regards

[Mr Kipling]

Jings Geoff. Genuinely sorry to read of your news.

Can only hope for you that, given more time, the situation will improve.

[Ali Tait]

+1.

[MCRU]

My hearing in my right ear has always been slightly impared. Now, since recently suffering an injury (which I won't elaborate on) to my left ear, I have no hearing at all above about 6kHz to 7kHz in either ear at the moment and this is definitely affecting my listening enjoyment. Since the injury, the hearing in my left ear has largely come back over the last few weeks, but the top end is still missing. If it does not improve soon, I may abandon serious Hi-Fi.

Don't be afraid to see about a hearing aid, they are 21st century these days and may just be the cure you need

[istari_knight]

My sympathies... Thats a major bummer for a music lover. As other's have said, hopefully your brain will adjust with time making it less of an issue.

[MikeMusic]

My hearing in my right ear has always been slightly impared. Now, since recently suffering an injury (which I won't elaborate on) to my left ear, I have no hearing at all above about 6kHz to 7kHz in either ear at the moment and this is definitely affecting my listening enjoyment. Since the injury, the hearing in my left ear has largely come back over the last few weeks, but the top end is still missing. If it does not improve soon, I may abandon serious Hi-Fi.
If it's any help my other half lost hearing in one ear some years ago and she keeps saying the other one is beginning to go
but
she has incredibly acute hearing in the one working ear, arguably better than mine

[Gordon Steadman]

Deafness is a real bummer. It runs in my family and my hearing loss is accelerating. I have a hearing aid in one ear and get by with the other. Modern aids are not too bad but they do cost a lot.

I find that I have adjusted to an extent and still enjoy listening to the hi-fi and can still easily distinguish between good and bad sound. I do most of my listening on phones now though. It is still the case that it all sounds better with good equipment, crap still sounds crap, just a little different than it used to. The phones mean that I can listen at reasonable volume without upsetting the rest of the village. Its still the music thats important so the basics are still there.

The worst thing for me is that I can't really differentiate enough to tune the guitars without an electronic tuner. I have always used feel and the sense of vibration at various points on the instrument when I am making a guitar so I can still do that thankfully. Time will come when I expect to be completely deaf.

As said already, for someone who is into music and hi-fi, this is not the best of news. However, like many things, as you get older, you just have to be thankful for the great enjoyment life has given you and accept the inevitable, somehow finding other things to make what is left worthwhile.

Maybe easier said than done but there is very little choice so down the hatch:cool:

[Reffc]

Really sorry to learn of your hearing difficulties Geoff but my advice is don't sell the hifi, as you can still enjoy it and a good audiologist ought to be able to help. I lost all the hearing above 6kHz in my left ear after a shooting incident a few years back but have great hearing in the other ear so the brain will help make up any differences you have. I also have a hearing aid and they do work wonders. Whilst they can't put back what has gone, they can boost lowered sensitivity to an acceptable degree. If like me, your hearing loss was due to a sudden loud noise, the bad news is that if hearing hasn't returned within a few days of the accident, then it may not return. I have permanent tinnitus as a result of my accident but it doesn't prevent me from listening to music...I just listen a little louder than most folk ;)

[walpurgis]

Thanks Guys, I'm not after sympathy, just outlining my problem as my input here on AOS may diminish. I don't think my hearing sensitivity has been affected significantly for conversation and most every day situations, as it's only the upper frequencies that are affected, but when I listen to music, I know I'm missing a lot that the speakers are putting out. There may be some improvement over more time. I did see the doctor when this first happened, but for various reasons they could not tell me much at the time. Buggered if I'm listening to my Hi-Fi through a hearing aid, that would be futile.

[Gordon Steadman]

I don't think my hearing sensitivity has been affected significantly for conversation and most every day situations, as it's only the upper frequencies that are affected, but when I listen to music, I know I'm missing a lot that the speakers are putting out. There may be some improvement over more time. I did see the doctor when this first happened, but for various reasons they could not tell me much at the time. Buggered if I'm listening to my Hi-Fi through a hearing aid, that would be futile.

But Geoff, surely its better to still hear the music than not at all. As I said, even with one aid in, I can still tell the difference between good and bad. I don't use the aid with cans obviously.

If you really can't stand listening with the aid, let the speakers go and use phones. Life doesn't end when things change, it just changes!!

This is what I've had to do and my advice would be to stick with what has given you so much pleasure.

[Marco]

Really sorry to hear about your hearing problems, Geoff. I hope you manage to resolve the situation to your satisfaction, ASAP, and continue indulging in your love of music. I'm sure you'll find a way :)

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Cheers Marco. I had the Tannoys blasting out a bit earlier and whilst I still appreciate the music, I just can't really hear that magic Tannoy sound properly. It's several weeks since my problems arose and I was very deaf then. Things are improving, but I suspect may not quite get back as they were. Time will tell.

[loo]

Hi Geoff , yes really sorry about your hearing problem , if things don't improve in time please don't completely dismiss a hearing aid some of the latest technology is amazing obviously the very best is not even mentioned in NHS establishments but go and see a respected private specialist and they may be able to do wonders ,
whatever you have to face I wish you all the best
cheers Paul

[Audio Al]

Stick with it Geoff Time will tell and time can be a healer ;)

[southall-1998]

Perhaps a daft thing to suggest. Have you considered a good quality Stax ear speaker system or other good headphone system, Geoff?

S.

[loo]

Not a bad idea, I have a Stax set up I would be happy to lend you Geoff ,
cheers Paul

[walpurgis]

Thanks all the same, but I have numerous good headphones. This would not be the way forward for me. I'll give it a while and see if things improve.

[brian2957]

Good luck Geoff . I hate headphones BTW :rolleyes:

[Audioman]

If you want to damage your hearing further headphones are the way to go. I have generally avoided them and still have good hearing at 60.

[southall-1998]

If you want to damage your hearing further headphones are the way to go. I have generally avoided them and still have good hearing at 60.

Play them at reasonable volumes. :rolleyes:

S.

[mimoser]

never give anything up on the impulse of feeling low down. If you still should be convinced in say two years time that an iPod and a FatMan will suffice you can still part with some of your kit. But you should eat the food on this plate cold as we say in German …
else you might regret it as soon as your depressive mood has gone away …
:cool:
Michael

[Gordon Steadman]

If you want to damage your hearing further headphones are the way to go. I have generally avoided them and still have good hearing at 60.

Indeed. However, there comes the time when, if that is the only way to hear the music, phones are the only way to go. When the choices run out.............

[jandl100]

Really sorry to learn of your problems, Geoff.

And, understandably, you do seem a bit down about it - but there's some good advice here from central Europe --
never give anything up on the impulse of feeling low down.

I realise that this has come on quite suddenly and is therefore a shock - but high frequency hearing loss with age is perfectly normal - I have a friend who is well into his 70s and in certain circumstances it's obvious that a lot of his hi-freqs have gone - but he has pretty much adapted completely and is as golden-eared an audiophile as ever, and still loves his music dearly.
Maybe, as has already been suggested, you just need to give the old grey matter time to adjust. :)

[DaveK]

FWIW, my two penn'orth: -
I have 'Industry (and age, being 73) related hearing loss and it mainly affects the top end and quite significantly. I had my hearing tested by a NHS Audiologist and she confirmed that hearing aids would help. She also said that the agreement that the NHS had with Siemens, the NHS provider, committed Siemens to maintain aids supplied to the NHS to incorporate the latest technology available. I am aware that this conflicts with a statement made above :)
A short while later I met socially a Senior Consultant (Clinical Psychologist, FWIW) in the NHS and, noticing that he wore hearing aids I asked his opinion. He responded that, in his position, he could afford anything currently available and it would be provided substantially cheaper, if not FoC but there was nothing to improve on the NHS ones. You have it there direct from the horses mouth, so to speak - make your own mind up :) .
At the time I told the NHS Audiologist that, in public situations, the hearing loss was not a major problem and my main interest was in increasing my enjoyment of music. She had no problems with this approach and suggested that, as both ears were similarly affected, using an aid in each ear would give the best result so I opted for that. Six or more years later I still rarely use them in public but always when I am doing some serious speaker listening - and they definitely do make a very positive difference. My advice is to go for the NHS hearing aids, if only for listening to your music - you have nothing to lose except the time involved in testing, fitting and tuning, and a great deal of enjoyment to gain, IMHO - no brainer. If, after that, you think that going private may improve the situation even more then by all means go down that route and see (hear :) ) for yourself but I have found no need to explore that option six years later.
Hope this helps,
Dave,

[StanleyB]

Beethoven wrote some of his greatest masterpieces after he was diagnosed as clinically deaf.

[walpurgis]

What Beethoven was doing, was not much different to what I did as a kid. I was a good classical pianist by the age of twelve and used to write my own music without having to play it. You can just envisage how it all goes together and sounds. Many people do the same. I've done the same with paintings and drawings, you can see it all before you create it. I do the same now with construction projects.

As for hearing aids? Well, if your pursuit of Hi-Fi leads you towards low distortion, neutrality, transparency and wide bandwidth, the average hearing aid is going to fall flat on its face by those standards. They generally reproduce sound to a dire standard.

[DaveK]

You can lead a horse to water but ..... :) "generally reproduce sound to a dire standard"???Bit of a sweeping statement innit?? - based on what exactly?? The brain is very good at accepting the new normality, that's how deafness is perceived to 'creep up' on you. I don't think I would let that put me off from giving them a free trial, particularly if faced with the consequences of doing nothing. Losing your enjoyment of music altogether rather than only partially is not a choice I would make, even if that was the only choice, which it isn't.
Dave.

[walpurgis]

You can lead a horse to water but ..... :) "generally reproduce sound to a dire standard"???Bit of a sweeping statement innit?? - based on what exactly?? The brain is very good at accepting the new normality, that's how deafness is perceived to 'creep up' on you. I don't think I would let that put me off from giving them a free trial, particularly if faced with the consequences of doing nothing. Losing your enjoyment of music altogether rather than only partially is not a choice I would make, even if that was the only choice, which it isn't.
Dave.

I have tried hearing aids Dave. I was partly deaf in my right ear before the current problem.

[DaveK]

I have tried hearing aids Dave. I was partly deaf in my right ear before the current problem.

Hi Geoff,
Thanks for taking my rather blunt comments in the spirit in which they were intended - to be helpful :) . Hearing aid technology might have moved on a bit since then and is half a loaf not better than no bread? Don't know how old you are but getting old (gracefully ;) ) involves compromises - expecting all your organs and senses to continue to perform as they did when you were younger and fitter is illogical. Speaking personally, although never claiming to have had perfect hearing, the hearing aids have definitely improved my current appreciation of music.
Best of luck, whichever route you take :) .
Dave.

[archiesdad]

Due to work related deafness my hearing is pretty bad, high frequencies are something I don't really hear (car audio all treble with the bass turned down to help), could you swop kit to something that has a bright sound to accentuate the highs to help you hear them?(hungover so this may be a pish idea).
I would seek pro help though and get to see a specialist, all may not be lost yet.

[walpurgis]

could you swop kit to something that has a bright sound to accentuate the highs to help you hear them?

Ah, tone controls you mean? :) Seriously though, I have a full range speaker project in hand and I was in any case planning to use a super tweeter with it. I may use a lower crossover point to maybe roll the tweeter in above about 6 kHz. this would allow some tailoring of the treble to hopefully assist me in perceiving higher frequencies. I can do this to a lesser extent on my Tannoys, which at the moment is not really helping, as I can't really make out any treble above around 6kHz at all. I've checked my hearing at various frequencies with a test signal CD (played at sensible levels).

[doodoos]

There's three full pages dedicated to hearing aids and hifi in March's Hifi News which may help.

[walpurgis]

After nearly two months my hearing is getting better. Almost back to normal. The doctor says there's a little healing to do yet, but I can now enjoy my Tannoys again thank goodness. I was getting pretty down about it all.

[The Grand Wazoo]

That's excellent news Geoff.

[RobbieGong]

After nearly two months my hearing is getting better. Almost back to normal. The doctor says there's a little healing to do yet, but I can now enjoy my Tannoys again thank goodness. I was getting pretty down about it all.

So glad things are improving Geoff, very happy for you - great news ! :)

[Mr Kipling]

I'm really pleased to hear that Geoff. As no doubt you are too.

[walpurgis]

Thanks guys, it's a big relief I can tell you. My favourite pastime potentially destroyed? Wow!

[Barry]

That's great news Geoff! Are you able to tell us what caused your hearing loss in the first place?

[Spectral Morn]

Agree you ought to see an audiologist - to see where you stand. I don't know how old you are Geoff, but if you are still in your thirties, your hearing may repair itself if the damage was caused by exposure to a very high sound level.

Regardless of the outcome, do not dispense with your audio system, or replace it with one of a lower performance. Even though you may not be able to directly hear the high frequencies, you will still be aware of their presence.

Yes it will affect your listening enjoyment, but better some enjoyment than none at all!

Wishing you all the best for some recovery - let us know how you get on.

Regards

I agree with Barry.

I wish you all the best and I hope it comes back.


Regards Neil

Edit I see it has, great news.

[MikeMusic]

After nearly two months my hearing is getting better. Almost back to normal. The doctor says there's a little healing to do yet, but I can now enjoy my Tannoys again thank goodness. I was getting pretty down about it all.

Fabulous news

Why is it coming back ?
What happened ?

[Gordon Steadman]

Good to hear:)

[brian2957]

Just as an aside here , some blood pressure tablets can cause tinnitus / loss of hearing . Glad your hearing is returning to normal Geoff :)

[Reffc]

Really pleased for you Geoff, you must be very relieved!

[Macca]

Good news! Just remember no more playing Slayer at 110 dB ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

I'd strongly suggest that anyone faced with the same prospect as Geoff was should watch the excellent video that Mike(Music) linked to yesterday in this thread (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?30914-Very-interesting-stuff-from-Evelyn) where Evelyn Glenny talks about how her bad early experience with attempts to formally learn music later gave deaf and otherwise disabled students access to a whole new world of education.
My over-riding impression from that clip is that a really high quality system would be more vital than ever to fulfilling musical enjoyment, rather than a waste of money and/or space- when you are relying on audio clues being picked up by, for example, your fingertips, you need some proper resolution!!

[walpurgis]

That's great news Geoff! Are you able to tell us what caused your hearing loss in the first place?

It's a bit silly really. My left ear (the good one) injury was caused by an earplug. I wear these at night because the wife is a very noisy sleeper. Anyway one worked its way in overnight and I awoke in considerable pain next morning. I managed to get the plug out with a struggle and was more or less completely deaf in that ear, with a lot of soreness. After a bath I found blood coming out, so I went to the doctor. They said go to the hospital, but it was late in the day by then, so I decided to wait until next day. In the morning the pain had eased an a bit of hearing was returning, so I decided to wait and see how things went without having my ear pulled about my some nurse. Now after around two months I have about 90% hearing back and after looking at it again, the doctor says I should be OK eventually, as there is still some healing to do and the eardrum is fortunately undamaged. It could have been worse.

[worrasf]

My hearing in my right ear has always been slightly impared. Now, since recently suffering an injury (which I won't elaborate on) to my left ear, I have no hearing at all above about 6kHz to 7kHz in either ear at the moment and this is definitely affecting my listening enjoyment. Since the injury, the hearing in my left ear has largely come back over the last few weeks, but the top end is still missing. If it does not improve soon, I may abandon serious Hi-Fi.

Hi Geoff - only just seen your post.
I write as a doctor & maxillofacial surgeon and someone who has tinnitus and hi tone deafness (6dB loss at 4kHz) in my right ear as a result of a shooting accident about 20 years ago. I had significant hearing loss for about a month but all returned apart from the typical noise related issues at 4Khz which is a real bummer as this is "human voice frequency". I agree with those that opine you need an audiological assessment to get a proper diagnosis - the audiogram will also be useful to demonstrate the frequencies that are dropped off. If your hearing loss was acute having been ok before then you may well get improvement with time. If you have true tinnitus then I am afraid there is no remedy.
I have just learned to live with mine but the tinnitus can be annoying at times. It's only in the last year or so when I have also got a degree of age related hearing loss (it comes to us all) it's been noticeable and I have found that by suitable adjustments to the frequency and sound level of my supertweeters I can mitigate most of it. I occasionally find that it does adversely affect my enjoyment of the HiFi but this is rare. I certainly wouldnt get rid of the kit.
Steve

[Macca]

if the ear is a passive device why is it that those withn hearing damage cannot have the whole installation replaced with something grown in a lab? or is that a bit far-fetched?

[worrasf]

if the ear is a passive device why is it that those withn hearing damage cannot have the whole installation replaced with something grown in a lab? or is that a bit far-fetched?
Martin - see my Avatar for a true scientific response ;)

The issues are related to the way sound pressure waves are converted to electrical impulses in the inner ear (analogue to digital converter). Essentially the sensor cells (hairs) are arranged a bit like a harp and are stimulated at a precise vibration frequency. Being in the inner ear they are essentially extensions of the brain and these nerves lack the capacity to regenerate once they are destroyed.

Tissue engineering is in it's infancy and while there has been some success in growing and external ear on a mouse from stem cells growing let alone replacing damaged auditory hair cells is a whole different ball game. Clearly, there is great success with bone anchored hearing aids but these rely on the nerve cells being healthy - all that happens here is that the BAHA conducts the vibrations through the skull bone and the hair cells are stimulated indirectly so they are useful where the hair cells are ok but the usual conduction mechanism is FUBAR

[Macca]

Interesting, thanks Stephen.

[walpurgis]

The way things are going, I reckon I'll be more or less back to normal in a couple of weeks or so. The doctor thought the same. I have no tinnitus by the way. I'm reluctant to have the ear poked about and prodded by medics, as I went through all that with the slightly dodgy right ear to no avail. I'll let things take their course.

[MikeMusic]

I'm reluctant to have the ear poked about and prodded by medics,

Got to admit I'd probably avoid that too

[worrasf]

Got to admit I'd probably avoid that too

Doctors have feelings to you know :wah:

[MikeMusic]

Doctors have feelings to you know :wah:

Too many things go wrong when people start fiddling with them.
I'd like to talk to the doctors that recommended I have my varicose veins stripped out. Complete waste of time, effort, NHS money, and life. Cosmetic at best. Wasn't a great job and I had varicose veins back in around 6 months.

No criticism of the medical profession cos the human body is just so complex (and we print vast amounts for them too !) but I often get the feeling from various places that the Docs are only just ahead of the informed punter on so much. My other half and her ME or 'not ME' or whatever it is come to mind.
My previous GP was a good example. Great bloke too. I had a weird virus back in the 90s. ! asked him what it was, what caused it
"Haven't a clue" The honesty went a long way for me

[worrasf]

Too many things go wrong when people start fiddling with them.


No criticism of the informed punter and i'll take it into consideration the next time said person comes to A&E with mutiple facial fractures after having the sh1t kicked out of them or gone through the windscreen in case they would rather I didn't fiddle with their face/jaw/eyes/nose/skull - I'm sure there's plenty of info on the 'net to allow said informed punter to fix it themselves ;)

Not that I have any strong opinions on the issue you understand :eyebrows:

:harp:

[Mr Kipling]

These might be a more safe option fot you Geoff:11604

[MikeMusic]

No criticism of the informed punter and i'll take it into consideration the next time said person comes to A&E with mutiple facial fractures after having the sh1t kicked out of them or gone through the windscreen in case they would rather I didn't fiddle with their face/jaw/eyes/nose/skull - I'm sure there's plenty of info on the 'net to allow said informed punter to fix it themselves ;)

Not that I have any strong opinions on the issue you understand :eyebrows:

:harp:


It's the finding out what's going on that's the problem and no huge surprise when no one can see what's going on inside. That's the price we pay for having skin and bits stopping a view into the insides !
:)
The diagnoses for my other half with her ME/'not ME' are classic and I can see why as she has symptoms different to everyone else she has ever met with ME.

When I was knocked off my bike I was very glad to be strapped to a board, ambulanced and taken to A&E and be checked out.
A&E is the worst type of front line for medics as you have to move fast, possibly with unconscious or incoherent patients or they die.

I'm talking about the stuff that the GP can't fathom and the specialists can#t see, possibly as they are the wrong specialist.
I am very grateful for medical science keeping me alive. All I want is for a doc to wave a magic wand and sort me and everyone else out
:)

[worrasf]

It's the finding out what's going on that's the problem
possibly as they are the wrong specialist.


No arguement from me on that one. If you end up going through the "wrong door" then things can be "missed"

[Gordon Steadman]

Who you see is vitally important of course and really can make the difference between life and death.

I had trigeminal neuralgia for ten years. The medics in the UK didn't believe in risking surgery as one of the bigger problems with the necessary surgery is the likelihood of death. Quite serious. So they fed me pills which had very little effect. Eventually I had radiation treatment to try and deaden the nerve.

When we moved to France just after that and it all flared up again. The first neurologist I saw here was a total prat. Put me on heavy drugs to the extent my wife came to see me and she had to get help to start me breathing again. Lucky she came in.

After that, we demanded to go to a real specialist in Bordeaux and he was brilliant. Took one look at the scans - that the other prat hadn't even had done - and said "I operate tomorrow at 8am, there is no other choice" Since then I have been totally pain free after years of real agony. Having seen the operation on YouTube since, I'm glad I didn't know all the details in advance!!:eek:

The problem is of course, how do you know you are seeing the right person, it all seems a bit of a lottery and you don't know how good they are until its too late. However, I would certainly avoid any unnecessary tinkering if its getting better anyway.

Good luck to you.

[MikeMusic]

Who you see is vitally important of course and really can make the difference between life and death.

I had trigeminal neuralgia for ten years. The medics in the UK didn't believe in risking surgery as one of the bigger problems with the necessary surgery is the likelihood of death. Quite serious. So they fed me pills which had very little effect. Eventually I had radiation treatment to try and deaden the nerve.

When we moved to France just after that and it all flared up again. The first neurologist I saw here was a total prat. Put me on heavy drugs to the extent my wife came to see me and she had to get help to start me breathing again. Lucky she came in.

After that, we demanded to go to a real specialist in Bordeaux and he was brilliant. Took one look at the scans - that the other prat hadn't even had done - and said "I operate tomorrow at 8am, there is no other choice" Since then I have been totally pain free after years of real agony. Having seen the operation on YouTube since, I'm glad I didn't know all the details in advance!!:eek:

The problem is of course, how do you know you are seeing the right person, it all seems a bit of a lottery and you don't know how good they are until its too late. However, I would certainly avoid any unnecessary tinkering if its getting better anyway.

Good luck to you.

The right person can be life and death. The system should pick up most of this but still way too dependent on the person you see.

I too was diagnosed with trigeminal neuralgia. My GP gave me pills. Went back and said they were working wonderfully. I was so happy as the pain was 10/10 from time to time.
He said "No it cannot be trigeminal neuralgia then, far too quick". He kept going on about dental pain -nah can't be. The pain was anywhere on the right side of my head from throat to top of scalp.
Well, he was right. Dentist eventually found one molar had an almost invisible hairline crack. Paul was and I'm sure still is one hell of GP and great guy.

I have 2nd hand experience of the French medical system via the other half's dad.
Some wonderful people and some others who should be shot or at least made to suffer what they pretend to be treatment.
Hateful, nasty unpleasant people at senior level and one of the angels of the world in the form of a male nurse who looked after him so well.
It's good when the right person also has some bedside manner(s)

[worrasf]

I too was diagnosed with trigeminal neuralgia. My GP gave me pills. Went back and said they were working wonderfully. I was so happy as the pain was 10/10 from time to time.
He said "No it cannot be trigeminal neuralgia then, far too quick". He kept going on about dental pain -nah can't be. The pain was anywhere on the right side of my head from throat to top of scalp.
Well, he was right. Dentist eventually found one molar had an almost invisible hairline crack.

This is not as rare as you might think and is a diagnostic nightmare - I know as it happened to me! So FWIW I am both a doctor and dentist and practice as a maxillofacial surgeon. Couple of yeas ago I get excruciating pain in left jaw/face - felt like toothache. Went to see my consultant dentist mate at the dental hospital - tests - x-rays all normal. Pain persisted. This was now the Christmas break. max doses of pain killers -I even took local anaesthetic home and was giving myself injections! Retuned to dentist repeat tests nothing to find. So by this time I'm thinking tumour so get MRI scan - all clear - pain persisted. Now on maximum dose of Gabapentin plus intermittent injections. One day sitting in clinic my lower left second molar split in half - pain gone!!
So all along - like your case it was due to a hairline crack in a tooth causing pulpitis. But despite me being in the know and seeing a consultant who I believe to be the best in the business it was still not found. So yes, there are poor doctors but also shit happens!

[Gordon Steadman]

It's good when the right person also has some bedside manner(s)

Ah well, thereby hangs a tale!! There is below a copy of the email I sent my nephew after the event. Eevery time I see the expression, I hear Peter Sellers doing Bedside Manor in Berkshire!!
So Moriati,

You thought I was gone for good huh? Not as easy as that my friend. Bloody close though.

I thought I was going into hospital for a couple of days observation and to get a high res MRI done. Another cunning plan goes west.

Let me tell you about Professor C….
Some people say he learnt surgery on his father's knee (Dad managed quite well ta very much. Three legs have their advantages especially this one as it musical. I wonder if this is why all three legged things have been called triPods since!)
Some people say he's an alien sent show us all how slow and stupid we are.
Some people say he's GOD
I don't know about that but I know we call him........... er bowing slightly..........Professor C….

His French moves through hyper-space, his English has to make do with sub light speed though, as he probably has to think about adding that wonderful French accent we all love so much.

When you meet him there is a sort of increased pressure in the air, you look up and there he is. He speaks in a sort of - me god - you mud - I decide and it will happen - way. You start to bow, slight decrease in air pressure and he's gone. Lancelot Spratt is Uriah Heap to this one.

There is however one problem. His hands. When Ronnie and I were first allowed a short amount of his time - if Gods actually do time - we both stared at his hands. Afterwards I said to her and said that if anyone was going to drill a hole in my head with his Black and Decker and then delve around inside separating all the nerves, blood vessels etc, trying to get a piece of Teflon between a blood vessel and a 3mm long piece of nerve channel about 5 centimetres inside the skull without damaging any other functions, these are the hands. They are attached to Professor C. Beautiful long slim and elegant fingers of incredible length. Exceptionally clean and well manicured. The sort you see in Renaissance paintings. Perhaps he was there too making musical shins.

So I had the scan. Worst kind of atonal French crap music you can imagine. It ain’t got no rhythm. Anyway, afterwards, lay on bed studying the way the French put false ceilings in and whoof..... there he is. "I have looked at the scan - you need the big one - I operate at 8.30 tomorrow morning (sadly, although this for me is a routine operation, it still takes me three of your earth hours)- you will probably have a headache afterwards". Whoof.

I think though, that I have been very fortunate to have this man as my surgeon.

Few problems here as always. No drugs after mid-day meal. So as time drags by with me wondering why my normally sort of well, at least half quick brain failed spot any movement before or after his arrival, the inevitable happens. The drugs start to lose their already weak defense against this disease. By 1am, bang. Full power. Foot hard down. I think it must have deteriorated considerably since the last time I went through all this. If I hadn't known that in just a few hours those hands were going to weave their magic, I would reached for the two packs of morphine I had secreted in my laptop bag. I now REALLY know why this is often called the suicide disease. The strange thing is that like the Brits, they offered me paracetamol. Unfortunately, I can't attest to the quality of their anticedents in French as well as in English, so it took some time to persuade them it was morphine that did it for me. Each one lasted a couple of hours. They jealously dolled them out one at a time. Eventually morning came.

I woke up. I couldn't breathe. Brain sensibly said "sod that" and switched off. Woke again. Still no breath would enter. Brain stayed connected - damn. Tried breathing with mouth. Aha, a flow. A shadowy figure appeared, sprayed my throat with something and pulled a long black something out of my throat and nose now worked too. I suspect this meant I had lived through it all.

I could go on but who needs any more details of a so far successful operation. Time will tell.

"probably have a headache afterwards" Hooray - gods have a sense of humour. Guess what - paracetamol doesn't work on them either. Who would have thought. Never mind - still have something in the lap-top bag.

G

[MikeMusic]

This is not as rare as you might think and is a diagnostic nightmare - I know as it happened to me! So FWIW I am both a doctor and dentist and practice as a maxillofacial surgeon. Couple of yeas ago I get excruciating pain in left jaw/face - felt like toothache. Went to see my consultant dentist mate at the dental hospital - tests - x-rays all normal. Pain persisted. This was now the Christmas break. max doses of pain killers -I even took local anaesthetic home and was giving myself injections! Retuned to dentist repeat tests nothing to find. So by this time I'm thinking tumour so get MRI scan - all clear - pain persisted. Now on maximum dose of Gabapentin plus intermittent injections. One day sitting in clinic my lower left second molar split in half - pain gone!!
So all along - like your case it was due to a hairline crack in a tooth causing pulpitis. But despite me being in the know and seeing a consultant who I believe to be the best in the business it was still not found. So yes, there are poor doctors but also shit happens!

Mine never showed on Xrays either
Diagnosis is my point.
Sometimes you can find answers yourself that the medics miss. Lorenzo's oil is perhaps the bet known.
New Scientist comes up with all sorts.
Referencing the 80s discovery of antibiotics curing stomach cancer there is now research into people 'catching' obesity, diabetes and other things you don't catch - or do you......

Another personal one from the v.veins. Should I wear supports or not ? Some say yes and some say no. Wikipedia I think it was says something like "can be effective". Right so that's a definite maybe then, if the wind is in the right direction.
My own take on things medical. Go see a doc and also work at it yourself. The worst you can do is appear informed

[MikeMusic]

Makes me think of Phil Hammond when he did "Trust me I'm a doctor"
Still sticks in my head that you must choose the bloke who is going to open you up and cut you about

[worrasf]

As I see it my "job" is to find out what's wrong with my patient - tell them what it is and why they have it. tell them what can be done about it (if anything needs to be or can be) and fully explain the risks and benefits of any treatment(s) and that includes no treatment so that they have all this information in order to make their own mind up and decide what's right for them. Not forgetting people are allowed to make "bad" choices. If I dont know what the problem is I will tell them so and send them off to someone who might.

Medicine is an art and surgery is a craft as much as a science (great programme on TV earlier this week on the "power of the placebo") - there are huge numbers of conditions we have no idea what causes them - simple mouth ulcers are a good example - affect millions and we haven't a clue why some people get them and there is no cure.

[MikeMusic]

As I see it my "job" is to find out what's wrong with my patient - tell them what it is and why they have it. tell them what can be done about it (if anything needs to be or can be) and fully explain the risks and benefits of any treatment(s) and that includes no treatment so that they have all this information in order to make their own mind up and decide what's right for them. Not forgetting people are allowed to make "bad" choices. If I dont know what the problem is I will tell them so and send them off to someone who might.

Medicine is an art and surgery is a craft as much as a science (great programme on TV earlier this week on the "power of the placebo") - there are huge numbers of conditions we have no idea what causes them - simple mouth ulcers are a good example - affect millions and we haven't a clue why some people get them and there is no cure.
Wish everyone was on your wavelength.
The placebo thing is just bonkers - or it is tapping into something we have not yet discovered

[RobbieGong]

As I see it my "job" is to find out what's wrong with my patient - tell them what it is and why they have it. tell them what can be done about it (if anything needs to be or can be) and fully explain the risks and benefits of any treatment(s) and that includes no treatment so that they have all this information in order to make their own mind up and decide what's right for them. Not forgetting people are allowed to make "bad" choices. If I dont know what the problem is I will tell them so and send them off to someone who might.

Medicine is an art and surgery is a craft as much as a science (great programme on TV earlier this week on the "power of the placebo") - there are huge numbers of conditions we have no idea what causes them - simple mouth ulcers are a good example - affect millions and we haven't a clue why some people get them and there is no cure.

Too true. The modern food chain and the things in cosmetics, toothpaste etc help to make our bodies sick / poisoned and diseased. A lot is kept from us in that regard but a lot of people do know. We have to make a change and smart lifestyle choices, not easy i know but simple changes can make a huge difference to our long-term wellbeing. Checkout the Food Inc uploads on Youtube. Much of this we likely or should already have a level of knowledge of but very enlightening / thought provoking all the same.
Blessings
Rob

[worrasf]

Wish everyone was on your wavelength.
The placebo thing is just bonkers - or it is tapping into something we have not yet discovered

I'm a believer! All of us have a very powerful placebo reaction - some are more susceptible than others. Lots of evidence of the efficacy of "sugar pills" that look like pukka medicines. There are loads of conditions in my area of practice where it comes into play - mainly in the area of chronic pain. When one understands the physiology of actually how pain is perceived then this becomes more understandable. The "gate theory" of pain developed by Malzac and Wall and found to be a true model of what actually happens shows that while pain receptors that are stimulated (say) in the tooth transmit signals to a "relay station" in a specific part of the spinal cord from where they are transmitted onward to the brain. But, and this is the critical point, descending nerves from a different parts of the brain are connected to this "relay station" and depending on the signals they carry they can either amplify or damp down the signals from the pain receptors that go on up to the brain to be perceived as pain. This is how endorphins work to increase pain tolerance. Conversely, folk with chronic pain syndrome and "psychological" conditions feel more pain because the relay is stimulated. The majority of this control is mediated by chemicals under direct or indirect control of "mood". So the phrase "it's all in the mind" is actually true but it should be construed in a positive not negative way.

[Mr Kipling]

I take it you'll be holding onto your Raphael amp then…

[MikeMusic]

I'm a believer! All of us have a very powerful placebo reaction - some are more susceptible than others. Lots of evidence of the efficacy of "sugar pills" that look like pukka medicines. There are loads of conditions in my area of practice where it comes into play - mainly in the area of chronic pain. When one understands the physiology of actually how pain is perceived then this becomes more understandable. The "gate theory" of pain developed by Malzac and Wall and found to be a true model of what actually happens shows that while pain receptors that are stimulated (say) in the tooth transmit signals to a "relay station" in a specific part of the spinal cord from where they are transmitted onward to the brain. But, and this is the critical point, descending nerves from a different parts of the brain are connected to this "relay station" and depending on the signals they carry they can either amplify or damp down the signals from the pain receptors that go on up to the brain to be perceived as pain. This is how endorphins work to increase pain tolerance. Conversely, folk with chronic pain syndrome and "psychological" conditions feel more pain because the relay is stimulated. The majority of this control is mediated by chemicals under direct or indirect control of "mood". So the phrase "it's all in the mind" is actually true but it should be construed in a positive not negative way.

What seems the most incredible to me is that people who know they are taking a placebo improve as well.

The joke you may know
"Hey doc, gimme some more of them Placebo pills they really fixed the problem"

[dantheman91]

Last couple of months has been a nightmare with my left ear :rolleyes:. Too the point where i gave up listening to music because i wasn't getting the enjoyment from it as before then came the test of source was their something wrong with an imbalance ETC nope next onto cables changing and swapping many tried them same result. so then different amplifiers , speakers you name it yep you guessed it all the same :scratch: to the point of hair pulling out what i have that is :lol: until i released my ears were still recovering from the worst case of flu i have ever had a month and i bet later i can enjoy it again although i do have slight loss of hearing but not much so shouldn't impact on HI-FI - Music ETC. Annoying though i was quite a moody old sod because of it.

[walpurgis]

I can sympathise. I had a bad time with my left ear due to an injury nearly a year ago and my right one is not 100% anyway. I couldn't hear the Hi-Fi properly for a month or so. That's why I started the thread. Fortunately I'm back to 'normal'.

[CageyH]

I can sympathise. I had a bad time with my left ear due to an injury nearly a year ago and my right one is not 100% anyway. I couldn't hear the Hi-Fi properly for a month or so. That's why I started the thread. Fortunately I'm back to 'normal'.

Is this why you can't hear the change in cables and directionality?
I'd hate to lose my hearing, as you never get it back. I have seen my dad go through this, and it's something I do my best to avoid by taking all the precautions I can.

[The Barbarian]

Don't worry most Hi-Fi enthusiasts are deaf anyway arnt they?

:D

[struth]

Hearing gets worse as you get older normally, and if you listen to music loud it is hastened. I have tinnitus due to an industrial cock up ..... still enjoy my music and can hear most things as in time it does improve.

[abbot]

I all to well recognize the feelings when you realize your hearing is impaired. A few years ago I had to send my 6B4G-PP power amp back to its designer Erik Andersson due to an annoying channel imbalance. He couldn't find any faults but changed the caps and returned it. It sounded dull when I received it back but I expected things to improve when I had used it for a while. Eventually it dawned on me that I ought to check my hearing. I was sad when I was told the result. Somehow, I didn't want to send myself back to my designer. I received a letter from the hospital telling me nothing could be done. For several years I tried to adapt to the circumstances but it was difficult. Music, Hi Fi and flyfishing has been my main interest about forever. A couple of years ago, I contacted an audiologist to confirm that there was no help for me. She told me I could use a pair of hearing aids. It turned out the letter from the hospital was telling me - between the lines - that there was no surgical help for me. Unfortunately, it wasn't written that way. Wasted years. I now use hearing aids. Initially they weren't functioning very well but that was to be expected. It can take some time to tune them in and as we hear with our brain, this same brain has to be tuned in too.
This spring I returned to the audiologist for a check. She was retired but the new one told me that I should have had my aids adjusted to "the third level" more than a year ago. This is now done and I enjoy my music very much. I still miss some of the shimmer from cymbals and violins and such, but compared to how it was...well, you need to be an audio journalist to explain the difference.

All aids aren't equal though, and all audiologists aren't either. It takes some skill and trial-and-error to get the best from them. And it is not the DAC that is the problem with them, it is the ADC. Check this out: http://www.hearingreview.com/2014/01/a-hearing-aid-solution-for-music/ I don't have these modern things, but when I'm in for exchange I will try to get them. This Marshall Chasin knows his stuff. Do a search on his name if you want to know more.

Congratulations, Geoff.

[AlexM]

While undergoing Chemotherapy, I noticed one day that I had no high frequency hearing at all - It was like a brick wall filter at about 6Khz. I was absolutely distraught as my experience was changed so much that I thought I'd never enjoy listening to music again.

I asked my Oncologist, and he said that yes, ototoxicity was a known phenomenon with platinum-based chemo drugs (Oxaliplatin) and that it was possible that the effects could be permanent. We discussed the alternatives available, and I was switched onto an alternative drug. Luckily my hearing appears to have fully recovered, although I have never had a hearing test since) but it did bring home to me what a dreadful disability hearing imparement could be, and how grateful I was to be spared.

My high-frequency hearing is normal for my age - depressingly it is about 20db down at 10Khz compared to the sensitivity of a normal 18 year old. My 15 year old told me that my russian preamp valves were oscillating and making a dreadful high piercing noise. I was completely oblivious. I think my hearing runs out at about 11-12Khz as I stop hearing things just after half way through a linear 20hz - 20Khz sweep. That would actually be very good for my age... see this excellent post on Head-fi for info: http://www.head-fi.org/t/569107/ultrasone-fan-club-roll-call/1425#post_8910201



Regards,
Alex

[Gordon Steadman]

I all to well recognize the feelings when you realize your hearing is impaired. A few years ago I had to send my 6B4G-PP power amp back to its designer Erik Andersson due to an annoying channel imbalance. He couldn't find any faults but changed the caps and returned it. It sounded dull when I received it back but I expected things to improve when I had used it for a while. Eventually it dawned on me that I ought to check my hearing. I was sad when I was told the result. Somehow, I didn't want to send myself back to my designer. I received a letter from the hospital telling me nothing could be done. For several years I tried to adapt to the circumstances but it was difficult. Music, Hi Fi and flyfishing has been my main interest about forever. A couple of years ago, I contacted an audiologist to confirm that there was no help for me. She told me I could use a pair of hearing aids. It turned out the letter from the hospital was telling me - between the lines - that there was no surgical help for me. Unfortunately, it wasn't written that way. Wasted years. I now use hearing aids. Initially they weren't functioning very well but that was to be expected. It can take some time to tune them in and as we hear with our brain, this same brain has to be tuned in too.
This spring I returned to the audiologist for a check. She was retired but the new one told me that I should have had my aids adjusted to "the third level" more than a year ago. This is now done and I enjoy my music very much. I still miss some of the shimmer from cymbals and violins and such, but compared to how it was...well, you need to be an audio journalist to explain the difference.

All aids aren't equal though, and all audiologists aren't either. It takes some skill and trial-and-error to get the best from them. And it is not the DAC that is the problem with them, it is the ADC. Check this out: http://www.hearingreview.com/2014/01/a-hearing-aid-solution-for-music/ I don't have these modern things, but when I'm in for exchange I will try to get them. This Marshall Chasin knows his stuff. Do a search on his name if you want to know more.

Congratulations, Geoff.

Very good and sensible post.

The idea of giving up music because of failing hearing is unthinkable until totally deaf. Unless, of course, its only the hi-fi you are interested in.

I have some new aids that have the speaker right in the ear canal, a bit like ear phones. The brain adjusts to the new way of hearing and the modern aids can be computer adjusted to almost make up for the lack although obviously, you can't regain the upper frequencies. I still enjoy my hi-fis and the differences between the various systems and sources is still glaringly obvious.

The music is still the same.

[KONDO]

Really sorry to learn of your hearing difficulties Geoff but my advice is don't sell the hifi, as you can still enjoy it and a good audiologist ought to be able to help. I lost all the hearing above 6kHz in my left ear after a shooting incident a few years back but have great hearing in the other ear so the brain will help make up any differences you have. I also have a hearing aid and they do work wonders. Whilst they can't put back what has gone, they can boost lowered sensitivity to an acceptable degree. If like me, your hearing loss was due to a sudden loud noise, the bad news is that if hearing hasn't returned within a few days of the accident, then it may not return. I have permanent tinnitus as a result of my accident but it doesn't prevent me from listening to music...I just listen a little louder than most folk ;) hi my dad thought it was funny,when I was standing at car door,he was in car, and had target set up,to try his new tika 243,he,s mostly deaf,next thing boom,what a freight,and a perforated ear drum.ass h,was used to hearing .22.ps my brother is deaf in one ear,and he had top class set up,dont know if he had mono switch turned on.yours charlie

[Reffc]

hi my dad thought it was funny,when I was standing at car door,he was in car, and had target set up,to try his new tika 243,he,s mostly deaf,next thing boom,what a freight,and a perforated ear drum.ass h,was used to hearing .22.ps my brother is deaf in one ear,and he had top class set up,dont know if he had mono switch turned on.yours charlie

Crikey...hope no permanent damage was done to you Charlie! I still shoot regularly, including shotguns and high velocity magnum chambered rifles. The shotgun is by far the worst for hearing damage as the charge and initial boom from any 12g is enough to cause permanent deafness (it was a gun going off close to my left ear (some people are idiots) that partially deafened me). I now use the patented Napier ear defenders when shooting. The high velocity rifles do give a loud crack when they go off but the shock wave is not as extreme as the shotgun at close quarters partly as the shotgun charge is pretty heavy by comparison. The rifles can't really be silenced to any degree even though fitted with sound moderators as it's the bullet travelling at over 2500 feet per second that's causing the sonic boom responsible for the loud "crack".

It does mean though that I can't trust my hearing entirely (although my right ear has near perfect response for my age) but luckily that's where measurement also comes in for ongoing design, R&D. The brain is remarkable at adjusting and balancing perceived sound qualities. There's calibrated microphones for the rest!

[StanleyB]

Luckily Beethoven didn't sit down and pondered what to do after being aware of his deafness. We wouldn't have had all that outstanding classical music from him. Sometimes you just have to get on with it and find novel ways of getting round these things.

[Reffc]

Luckily Beethoven didn't sit down and pondered what to do after being aware of his deafness. We wouldn't have had all that outstanding classical music from him. Sometimes you just have to get on with it and find novel ways of getting round these things.

Absolutely. Turning the volume up works for me :eyebrows:

[walpurgis]

Luckily Beethoven didn't sit down and pondered what to do after being aware of his deafness.

He didn't have a Hi-Fi! :D

[StanleyB]

He didn't have a Hi-Fi! :D
Indeed. Even more amazing then that he managed all that with just quill and paper.

[walpurgis]

Indeed. Even more amazing then that he managed all that with just quill and paper.

Beethoven was so used to hearing, composing and writing music that once he went deaf he could still put together in his head a visualisation of how it should be and would be.

I could do the same thing when I was young. I was a good classical pianist and used to concoct complex music in my head whilst laying in bed at night and wrote it all out the next day.