Valve phono stage question

[Haselsh1]

Does anyone happen to know whether the Yaqin MS-12B will work on UK mains or is it the same as all other Chinese gear...?

[walpurgis]

I wouldn't worry too much Shaun. There are plenty of MS-12B units in this country and I've not heard of any mains matching problems. I've had plenty of 230v Chinese electronics and never had any bother.

[Haselsh1]

I have owned Chinese hi-fi items before and they lasted at most two years. The valve amplifier I had had voltages all over the place and was damn near dangerous so I do very definitely worry about buying yet another piece of Chinese hi-fi however a UK made comparable piece price wise would only be a Project unit. I just wonder if the Yaqin would be any better.

[walpurgis]

This thread on diyaudio forum seems to answer your question Shaun.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tubes-valves/197674-yaqin-ms-12b-220v-10-safe-use-uk.html

[Haselsh1]

Many thanks for that Geoff I think I'll leave well alone as 'once bitten, twice shy' and all of that rubbish. I shall probably go with something secondhand off ebay.

[walpurgis]

I've been using Graham Slee phono stages for years and I've been very pleased with the sound. But If you still fancy valves, look out for a used Bellari VP 129 on eBay, they don't look much, but sound amazingly good at the price. The later VP130 seems less liked, I had a VP129 for a while and it really surprised me, not far short of the EAR 848P I had. By the way, I found the Graham Slee V Era Gold superior even to the EAR 834L. I'm currently using an Reflex Era Gold, can't hear much in it between that and the V Era Gold.

[Gordon Steadman]

Why not talk to Alan (Firebottle) about his valve pre?? Special price for AOS members too.

[Haselsh1]

Why not talk to Alan (Firebottle) about his valve pre?? Special price for AOS members too.

I have Firebottle's original valve pre with me at the moment but it really is not to my taste or liking. I prefer a phono stage with great depth and Firebottle's pre shouts everything out at you in one huge wall of sound which I find a little too CD like. I'll keep looking as I am in no hurry at the moment. Something will turn up as it usually does.

[walpurgis]

If you like depth, as I do. Get a listen to the V Era Gold, that has amazing ambience and soundstaging. You can hear right into the depths of the recording. It's also totally uncoloured and very transparent, good weight too. It's a very neutral device, you'd never tell by listening whether it was valve or solid state. Shame you're not nearby, you could have a listen here.

[CageyH]

Graham Slee do a loan scheme, so you can have a listen before you commit to buy.

[Mr Kipling]

Is it a new one you were going to get? If so, you can order it for 220/230/240v input.

[Haselsh1]

Sadly I do not believe a single letter of print on Chinese Hi-Fi as all of their gear is apparently CE compliant but I very much doubt it actually meets CE compliance standards. Given that, I do not believe anything that purports to be 240 VAC that comes from China as a sticker is simply that; a sticker.

[Marco]

Sadly, from experience, I'd have to agree with Shaun.

What tends to happen is that whilst the transformers are usually ok for UK mains (if specified as such), the rest of the components generally don't have sufficient capacity to handle the over-voltage on the circuit, which is why tales of capacitors going pop (such as happened in my experience with a Yaqin MC-100B) are rather common with Chinese kit. Often problems only arise after a period of time, through continued use. I also understand that others will have had different experiences, but the question is: are you willing to take the risk?

Only you, as a potential buyer, can answer that. However, think VERY CAREFULLY about it and assess the possible dangers, as the last thing you want happening is to leave the product unattended for a period of time, only to return to it having become a smouldering wreck, or it blowing up you while you're listening to music and (possibly) taking out another component in your system!!

What you have to consider is the fact that UK mains, in some areas, can measure as high as 250V (sometimes even more), so on a product that has been deemed as 'safe' to use in the UK at 230V, that extra potential 20V is still a hell of a lot for the circuit to deal with, on a number of levels - especially when poor quality components are used, which are often no more than, electrically, 'adequate for purpose', but that's on 230V, not 250V or more!!

However, if you are willing to take a chance on importing a Chinese product, then my advice would be, before plugging it in, sending it to a qualified electrical engineer (many of whom are members here), where it will then be assessed for safety, and if necessary during that process, key components will be upgraded in order that the amplifier, phono stage or whatever, can handle the extra voltage, and thus safely be used.

This has the added benefit of also improving sound quality, so with a bit of patience, it's a win-win!

The use of a step-down transformer (which reduces the input voltage to the circuit) may also be recommended and implemented into the design. That done, even with factoring in the cost of the modifications, you could still end up with a genuine bargain and a superb piece of kit, but at least you'll have the peace of mind of knowing that it's been certified by an expert as safe!!!

:exactly:

Marco.

[Firebottle]

I prefer a phono stage with great depth and Firebottle's pre shouts everything out at you in one huge wall of sound which I find a little too CD like. I'll keep looking as I am in no hurry at the moment. Something will turn up as it usually does.
Hi Shaun,

Did you get my PM with he offer of the production version? I would like you to hear it.

By your description of "shouts everything out" do you mean there is more gain than you would like? The biasing of the original is not optimal and I have a production example with switchable pentode/triode mode on the first stage. The triode setting offers less overall gain.

Cheers,
Alan

[brian2957]

I heard the Firebottle phono stage a couple of weeks ago . I must say that I thought that it was excellent . Maybe a synergy thing but it bettered a similarly priced phono stage by quite a large margin and was almost the equal of a much more expensive one . TBH I don't know how he does it for the money.

[Haselsh1]

Hi Shaun,

Did you get my PM with he offer of the production version? I would like you to hear it.

By your description of "shouts everything out" do you mean there is more gain than you would like? The biasing of the original is not optimal and I have a production example with switchable pentode/triode mode on the first stage. The triode setting offers less overall gain.

Cheers,
Alan

Yes Alan, there is far too much gain but the overall presentation is also far too upfront and well forward of the speakers instead of being farther back with greater depth. Please PM me your address details so that I can send the original back to you. I would love to try the latest version though.

[twotone]

Yes Alan, there is far too much gain but the overall presentation is also far too upfront and well forward of the speakers instead of being farther back with greater depth. Please PM me your address details so that I can send the original back to you. I would love to try the latest version though.

That was the way the phono amp sounded to me too.

Tony

[CageyH]

I have one of the switchable Pentode/Triode versions on loan at the moment. I picked it up from the post office this morning, and initial impressions are that it sounds very good.
In-between the rugby this weekend, I plan to do some back to back testing with my current phono stage. That will be a real test, as I really like my current phono stage for balance, depth, dynamics and detail.

I think it must be set in triode mode, as it certainly does not lack depth. I think it will be hard to beat this for sound quality at this price point.
Mick Hucknall/Simply Red - Picture Book - is/are sounding sublime at the moment.

[Firebottle]

That was the way the phono amp sounded to me too.

Tony
Having now received the prototype back at 'Firebottle Towers' I have now compared it with another valve preamp.
I have to agree that the prototype suffers from what can best be described as a 'lack of micro-dynamics', and I think I know why.

The input stage is followed by a passive RIAA network, but of a relatively low impedance. All subsequent preamps have used a network with an impedance of approximately seven times greater.
I am going to change the circuit to the higher impedance and change the second stage to the gutsier valve I now use, then re-compare.

I have to say the talent on AoS for appreciation of how music should sound is brilliant. Keep it up peeps :pat:

:cool: Alan