Does anyone else suffer from this?

[julesd68]

Spent Xmas with my mum up in Manchester this year. She enjoys listening to her classical cd's on a 'modest' Naim system she has had for many a year - I think the cd player is a 3.5 and the amp a Nait 3. Speakers are old Chario standmounts. She has never wanted anything more sophisticated.

I bought her some new cd's for Xmas and put them on to listen to. It was so enjoyable. I was able to relax and listen to them with a not such a critical ear. The sound wasn't 'perfect' (Charios do roll off the treble) but I just didn't care - it was very easy to enjoy.

Back at home I listen to vinyl almost exclusively, struggle to find the quality of vinyl I want and having had a 'settled' system for some time find myself tweaking with with changes minor and major. I find it hard to relax with my system because I'm constantly being so critical in my listening, which detracts from the enjoyment of the music. Something needs to change, but not sure what ... :scratch:

[Macca]

Yes, I am a fellow sufferer. I also find I appreciate music more on other's systems, because - I suspect - I know subconsciously I can't do anything about them.

I'm getting my pre-amp modded, picking up some new speakers this weekend. My experience such as it is tells me this will be a step forward to getting what I want. If it isn't then I really don't know where I am going next. There has to be an end to it somewhere.

[walpurgis]

Hmm, don't have the problem myself as I love the sound I'm getting and never hear anything that sounds better (to me) elsewhere.

[StanleyB]

I packed away my equipment in the loft in 1987 when my wife told me she was expecting. Since then I got to listen to loads of other people equipment. Few of them were however to my satisfaction. Before audio forums became a feature on the net, equipment buyers were heavily reliant on HIFI mags as a source of recommendation. Now with access to a lot more info from the net, many of the people I know have lashed together a miss match of gear recommended on forums that are supposed to sound good on their own. But they widely miss the mark when connected together. So I haven't been lucky enough to have heard anything from anyone else recently that I felt relax with listening to it. Maybe I keep the wrong type of company.

When I finally powered up my own pieces again in 2006 it didn't take long to identify the bits that didn't sound anywhere as good as I remembered them whilst others sounded as good or even better than I could remember. I am very much into looks that appeal to me, as well as sound quality. That type of combination is not easy to get hold cheaply these days on the 2ndhand market, and certainly not new. So I have more or less settled with what I currently have wired up to the mains.

[Barry]

Oh dear Julian! You sound just like a fellow audio-enthusiast friend of mine. Reads all the magazines, has some very good equipment and overall a good system (to my ears), a large collection of vinyl - yet doesn't really enjoy his system.

Every time I go round to hear his system, he is constantly interjecting with comments like: "does the soundstage and imaging sound right to you?", or "does this recording sound noisy to you?", "is the balance right?" , etc. etc. etc. - you get the idea. The point is, I do notice the limitations of his system, just as I do my own (and almost any other system, regardless of cost), yet I never let this intrude too much on my listening pleasure.

No one system is perfect: all we can do is put together a system that satisfies us most, that is, ticks enough boxes of our personal list of acoustic characteristics that are important to us. Putting such a personal system together that is satisfying is "The Art of Sound".

[Oldpinkman]

I am currently. But hoping its due to "essential repairs" and I'll come back to my senses shortly. In my case I think its tinged with a nagging doubt that dacapo is such a good dac that except for avoiding duplicates and the case of stand-out bad cd recordings there is no case for vinyl. So I've stopped listening to cds to maximise the pain.

Btw your avatar is a bad influence at this point in the tax return season. Not helped by mrs s feeling very chuffed to get me the book on collecting Scottish whisky which my uncle david daiches wrote many years ago and a set of glenmorangie single malts for christmas.

Roll on February ! :(

[Stratmangler]

Oh dear Julian! You sound just like a fellow audio-enthusiast friend of mine. Reads all the magazines, has some very good equipment and overall a good system (to my ears), a large collection of vinyl - yet doesn't really enjoy his system.

Every time I go round to hear his system, he is constantly interjecting with comments like: "does the soundstage and imaging sound right to you?", or "does this recording sound noisy to you?", "is the balance right?" , etc. etc. etc. - you get the idea. The point is, I do notice the limitations of his system, just as I do my own (and almost any other system, regardless of cost), yet I never let this intrude too much on my listening pleasure.

No one system is perfect: all we can do is put together a system that satisfies us most, that is, ticks enough boxes of our personal list of acoustic characteristics that are important to us. Putting such a personal system together that is satisfying is "The Art of Sound".

From the sound of it (pun intended) your friend doesn't listen to the actual music :eek:

[MikeMusic]

Mindset

You don't expect much from your mum's system and it delivers

I listen to a lower level system when in the kitchen/dining room and it's ok, nothing like my main system and I'm quite happy with it

Some albums are made well and some not so that could be an issue

There's always something to improve. Could be you have one item that needs an update.
Mains is a good place to start - which is where I started when my system sounded poor

[Gordon Steadman]

We now have five systems of varying competence but.......in reality, they are all very good when it comes to playing the important stuff i.e. music.

I can happily listen and get lost on any one of them without worrying about the actual sound.

There is a big 'but' though. If I'm hearing a piece for the first time or something I am not that familiar with, I tend to play it first on the main system with the Quad 57s, valves and vinyl (if its available of course). Once I know the music, my mind appears to fill in anything that the 'lesser' systems may be missing out and I can just relax and let the music do its thing instead of trying to take it apart (that's the job of the digital stuff - my brain is analogue:eyebrows:)

As I have no doubt said before, I reckon hi-fi and music are two different hobbies. Your mum's system is not under your control so you can't fiddle or worry about it and so just relax and actually hear the music rather than your toys.

[walpurgis]

I reckon hi-fi and music are two different hobbies.

Never a truer word spoken! :eyebrows:

[mr sneff]

I reckon hi-fi and music are two different hobbies.


This hits the nail on the head. In one you're just listening to music, in the other you're still listening to music but also, and sometimes to the detriment of the music, listening to the system.

[MikeMusic]

I reckon hi-fi and music are two different hobbies.

For some yes, 100%
For me and I think quite a few of the assembled the boxes and wires are only a key to hearing more of the music.

Continuing my black card to hide the silver boxes I'd very happily have all the boxes somewhere else, speakers built into the wall, if the sound is not compromised, and normal room with wonderful sound.

[Joe]

As I have no doubt said before, I reckon hi-fi and music are two different hobbies. Your mum's system is not under your control so you can't fiddle or worry about it and so just relax and actually hear the music rather than your toys.

Indeed. And anyone posting on a hifi forum who claims that 'it's all about the music' is knee-deep in an African river.

[Oldpinkman]

As I have no doubt said before, I reckon hi-fi and music are two different hobbies. Your mum's system is not under your control so you can't fiddle or worry about it and so just relax and actually hear the music rather than your toys.

Maybe. As we have discussed. I listen on a phone at the gym, or in the car and never think I need any better. (The kitchen system is an exception and can often sound so bad I make the family turn it off - or pull the curtains away from the speakers). But whether its the latest Made in Japan Strat, a stradivarius, Zildjan cymbals, Shure KSM32, or the latest LP12, equipment and music are always linked. (perhaps not with the Mrs, who just has to fire up her tonsils).

I think the real difference you are alluding to, and Julian has also referenced at the start of this thread, is whether you can worry too much about the equipment and lose the music as a result. I posted this point ages ago, but I think it bears repeating.

At University, at the tender age of 20, but still thinking I was a teenager and knew it all, I studied systems and modelling as part of my management course. We were taught various theoretical bases for system design, including optimisation. Now you would think its a no-brainer that you want to design the optimum system (or product). But as with many "first" theoretical models (like CAPM for valuing assets) we soon learned that in the real world, practical difficulties meant that system is N£VER used. And were introduced to the concept of "satisfycing". Rather than endlessly striving for perfect, and never finishing the design, the requirement was to get something which "did the job" or was "good enough".

I think this is the key to the 2 types of hifi enthusiast. For some, the "sport" is endlessly chasing down the last nuance of perfection, which they never find, but enjoy the journey of looking (you know who they are). The risk is they end up listening to the equipment and not the music. For others, and I bloody hope I go back to being one of these, then once a system is achieved which works , which you like, which you are not endlessly worrying about faults in (and analogue is surely a bigger risk for that), then you can settle down to enjoy it, and hope you DON'T hear anything better, and try to achieve that hope by not looking. Just listening to the music.

(and unless the mains in Surrey is very different from Kent {I tried Sussex mains over Christmas from a generator} I think it very unlikely I will ever look to mains as the balm which heals my woes). Speakers with better bass, maybe.

:cool:

[MikeMusic]

Indeed. And anyone posting on a hifi forum who claims that 'it's all about the music' is knee-deep in an African river.

That's me
Knee deep in the Thames cycling to work :)
The kit is only the key to more music for me

[Oldpinkman]

That's me
Knee deep in the Thames cycling to work :)
The kit is only the key to more music for me

Mate - you're not going to impress a Yalding boy! :ner:

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/DSC_0008_zps34efb9ec.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/DSC_0008_zps34efb9ec.jpg.html)


:cool:

[MikeMusic]

Mate - you're not going to impress a Yalding boy!



My first experience of 'real' flooding with next to no water in places I expected floods and deep floods in places I didn't expect.
Nearly wrecked the car and certainly didn't do it any good.
Even bullet proof Saabs question going through 100 yards or so of water up to 2' deep.

Ironic when it stops raining and I decide to cycle I'm cycling through fast flowing water.

Does this somehow prove I'm only into the kit to get more music ?
:)

[Oldpinkman]

My first experience of 'real' flooding with next to no water in places I expected floods and deep floods in places I didn't expect.
Nearly wrecked the car and certainly didn't do it any good.
Even bullet proof Saabs question going through 100 yards or so of water up to 2' deep.

Ironic when it stops raining and I decide to cycle I'm cycling through fast flowing water.

Does this somehow prove I'm only into the kit to get more music ?
:)

Be careful Mike. I have a Land Rover and can wade, but even if you know the air intake is high it does no good to brakes, diffs, gearboxes and the like. I'm only into floods for the Landies! :eek:
But also be careful cycling - cos you can't see what's underneath. The Lees in Yalding (common ground next to the tourist bit) flooded to 4ft and had windsurfers. The high street just beyond the doctors peeked at nearly 4 feet, and was running 10 knots. The water picks up sewage, and blows the surface water manholes up from underneath and you can fall in. We are dry now, but my daughter wrecked her mini engine this year, and I have wrecked a Galaxy in 2000 (surprisingly low air intake, and a hidden dip in the road) - so best not to play in them if you don't have to

:)

[Marco]

Thank fook we live at the top of a hill (as indeed have always done)!

Very sorry to see anyone whose home has been wrecked by that sort of flood damage. Hope you've managed to get through it somehow.

Marco.

[Gordon Steadman]

Thank fook we live at the top of a hill (as indeed have always done)!

Very sorry to see anyone whose home has been wrecked by that sort of flood damage. Hope you've managed to get through it somehow.

Marco.

Indeed, we too live on the crest of a hill and our village has had a few floods whilst we have been here. I have seen the misery it causes and wouldn't wish it on anyone (well.....almost anyone) We have a touristy fountain in the village fed by springs. Too much rain and it really gets a bit spectacular with unfortunate results for some.

I have only tried driving through deep water once and flooded the motor. Surprisingly, considering it was an Alfa, it fired first time after being dried out and seemed not to suffer from the experience. Wouldn't recommend it though.

[Oldpinkman]

Thank fook we live at the top of a hill (as indeed have always done)!

Very sorry to see anyone whose home has been wrecked by that sort of flood damage. Hope you've managed to get through it somehow.

Marco.

Thanks, we're fine - we're up a hill too - but the village was badly hit - photo was about 11am Christmas morning. (See other postings, I won't repeat much, but we took in a couple who lived on the far side of the road to the left of that picture, with their dog. They were hunkering down to spend the night in the church, having only moved in a few weeks ago. Just got them settled and the power went out for 3 days. I borrowed a 3.5kva generator from my ex-wifes new man, late boxing day - hence the "sussex electricity"). Many in the village were badly affected though. The house you can almost see to the right at the front of that picture had water above the top of the french windows...
Rescues all through Christmas day by fire brigade inflatable boats, and 3 helicopters. Our friends (who we saw when taking this picture, and who had already arranged alternative accomodation), live at the end of the road to the right at the back of this next one

http://i1315.photobucket.com/albums/t582/oldpinkman/DSC_0002_zpsb891e4a5.jpg (http://s1315.photobucket.com/user/oldpinkman/media/DSC_0002_zpsb891e4a5.jpg.html)

[magiccarpetride]

This hits the nail on the head. In one you're just listening to music, in the other you're still listening to music but also, and sometimes to the detriment of the music, listening to the system.

I find it impossible to separate the two. The system presents the music, but it is the music listening experience that I'm after. It's like looking at a painting -- if the windows are dirty, the light hitting the painting will be muddy and your viewing experience will be suboptimal. So naturally you'd want to clean the window. But you're never actually interested in looking at the window instead of looking at the painting.

It's the same with hi fi -- it can get muddy or clear, but you never actually listen to it. You get your impressions from listening to the playback of recorded music.

[tapid]

I suppose the simple answer is maybe theres two hobbies here, music and hi fi.Also is that you Richard swimming just to the right of the cottage on the way to the bookies! On a more serious note great effort on your part to take those people in.Lets hope the weather settles down and people recover soon.

[gordy]

I have to admit that i spend most of my listening time with the office system. it sounds so much better, i.e. i'm only listening to the music and loving it ( listening to Lynard skynard at the moment). the main system sounds a mess, no bass or boomy bass, bright up top, very muddled mids. therefore very rarely gets used, i suspect the room and speaker placement to be the biggest problem tried moving stuff around and it made no major difference, i may call on an expert for help, i have one in mind.

Gordy.

[Stratmangler]

( listening to Lynard skynard at the moment)

Please tell me it's an accent thing.
You've spelt it phonetically ....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61RN9cy9sQL.jpg

[The Grand Wazoo]

....pronounced.....

[MikeMusic]

Be careful Mike. I have a Land Rover and can wade, but even if you know the air intake is high it does no good to brakes, diffs, gearboxes and the like. I'm only into floods for the Landies! :eek:
But also be careful cycling - cos you can't see what's underneath. The Lees in Yalding (common ground next to the tourist bit) flooded to 4ft and had windsurfers. The high street just beyond the doctors peeked at nearly 4 feet, and was running 10 knots. The water picks up sewage, and blows the surface water manholes up from underneath and you can fall in. We are dry now, but my daughter wrecked her mini engine this year, and I have wrecked a Galaxy in 2000 (surprisingly low air intake, and a hidden dip in the road) - so best not to play in them if you don't have to

:)

I'm being very careful and glad to say I'm cycling through water in fair light now plus taking a couple of detours to avoid 50% of it. Weil’s disease is a possibility so I also have that in mind.
No way am I taking my car through it again unless it’s a big puddle rather than 400 yards of variable depth cross current Thames.

There are potholes appearing due to the sheer volume of water running over them so that could be fun.
Just hope we get dry before a frost !

[walpurgis]

Weil’s disease is a possibility

Very good point. Anybody who has been exposed to flood water and develops flu like symptoms needs to get that checked out pronto!

[Reffc]

Very good point. Anybody who has been exposed to flood water and develops flu like symptoms needs to get that checked out pronto!

Symptoms appear very rapidly, and you need to be checked immediately you develop symptoms. It's a low risk but it's there. I know of two people (in my last job) who contracted it after falling into canals. Sadly, one of them died within a few weeks.

[MikeMusic]

Symptoms appear very rapidly, and you need to be checked immediately you develop symptoms. It's a low risk but it's there. I know of two people (in my last job) who contracted it after falling into canals. Sadly, one of them died within a few weeks.
Thanks
I shall apprise the old lady
It's currently unlikely as the water is moving so fast.
2-3 days may not be

[gordy]

Please tell me it's an accent thing.
You've spelt it phonetically ....

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61RN9cy9sQL.jpg


Oops! sorry, I can't type, think, and spell at the same time.

[julesd68]

I'm really fed up with hi-fi at the moment.

Thought I'd try my cd player with the new Sony amp yesterday and it sounded pretty damn fine. Produced as much bass as I've heard through the Tannoys since I got them.

Put it on this morning, and it stopped playing a disc after about 3 minutes in. Then it wouldn't read any cd at all, and now the draw won't even open. I presume it needs a new transport. Very frustrating as only had new belts fitted a few months ago ... :(

[StanleyB]

I'm really fed up with hi-fi at the moment.

Thought I'd try my cd player with the new Sony amp yesterday and it sounded pretty damn fine. Produced as much bass as I've heard through the Tannoys since I got them.

Put it on this morning, and it stopped playing a disc after about 3 minutes in. Then it wouldn't read any cd at all, and now the draw won't even open. I presume it needs a new transport. Very frustrating as only had new belts fitted a few months ago ... :(
What is the make of the CD player?

[julesd68]

It's a Consonance Cd-120.

[StanleyB]

email me if you are within close distance of Brent Cross or can get to me. I might have a minute to spare to check if the mech is functioning properly.