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Andrei
08-01-2014, 00:09
I am looking to upgrade my phono stage. I had in mind things like a Whest PS.30R, Sugden Masterclass, Rogue Ares. Now however I am thinking along the lines of separates. One that comes to mind is to combine the top of the Graham Slee MM phonostages with either a headamp or an SUT. I have a few questions: Can anyone suggest an alternative to the Graham Slee Reflex M? If I go for the Slee then an obvious partner would be the Graham Slee Elevator EXP. Has anyone tried the Reflex M with a Rothwell SUT? Or simply had experience of a Rothwell SUT?

(There was an excellent thread on SUT or Headamp a year ago and Barry made a very informative post on the relative Pros and Cons of Headamps vs SUTs.) Now I am looking at something specific.

TIA

trio leo
08-01-2014, 11:37
Hi Andrei,

I haven't done a direct comparison between SUT and Head amp for many years, I suppose if well built they will both have their beneficial contributions to the performance.
I suppose Barry's article would give a balanced view.
I don't know the price of the Graham Slee you mentioned, but I have been amazed at the performance I get from my head amp and I think it is excellent VFM at £500.

just my 2 penneth

enjoy your music

regards Al

Andrei
08-01-2014, 20:42
Thanks for that Alan
Price is important but does not really come into this equation as the various options I am considering are all within the same ball park.
I think sense a Rothwell SUT would work well but unfortunately I cannot get to demo one where I am.

John
08-01-2014, 20:45
Ray Samuels Nighthawk is very good for its money

Ali Tait
08-01-2014, 21:29
I have Firebottle's MM/MC stage at the moment, and also had the Arkless head amp to try. I'll be putting up a proper review shortly, but short reply is that the head amp is like pressing a loudness button, or moving several rows forward at the gig. The mc direct is a more relaxed presentation by comparison. One is not necessarily better than the other, just down to personal preference. The head amp did do fantastic bass though.

Ali Tait
08-01-2014, 21:31
BTW, the Firebottle stage has got to be the bargain of the decade, given the sound quality on offer for the price.

Marco
08-01-2014, 21:57
I have Firebottle's MM/MC stage at the moment, and also had the Arkless head amp to try. I'll be putting up a proper review shortly...

When you're ready, dude, pop me a PM and I'll re-open this thread: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?29690-Platters-and-Phonos-at-MartinT-s&p=510906#post510906 to allow you to add your thoughts about the Arkless head amp :)

Marco.

Ali Tait
08-01-2014, 21:59
Okeydokey.

Stratmangler
08-01-2014, 22:48
I am looking to upgrade my phono stage. I had in mind things like a Whest PS.30R, Sugden Masterclass, Rogue Ares. Now however I am thinking along the lines of separates. One that comes to mind is to combine the top of the Graham Slee MM phonostages with either a headamp or an SUT. I have a few questions: Can anyone suggest an alternative to the Graham Slee Reflex M? If I go for the Slee then an obvious partner would be the Graham Slee Elevator EXP. Has anyone tried the Reflex M with a Rothwell SUT? Or simply had experience of a Rothwell SUT?

(There was an excellent thread on SUT or Headamp a year ago and Barry made a very informative post on the relative Pros and Cons of Headamps vs SUTs.) Now I am looking at something specific.

TIA

I'm listening to a Relex M right now, being fed by a HOMC cartridge, and it's sounding phenomenal.
Unfortunately the Reflex isn't mine, and it's on it's way back in the morning, as I've borrowed it from the Graham Slee loaner programme.
I've been very fortunate in that my loan spell has fallen over the Christmas period, so I've really had a good chance to get to grips with its capabilities.
I'm going to have to save up the pennies for a while, which is not ideal, but it does give me something to look forward to later on this year.

The Reflex M has bowled me over, that's for certain, and it's gonna hurt until I can get one back in harness.

Join the GSP Audio forum, and you'll be eligible to try their products on their Australian loan programme.
Get to use the stuff you're asking about and make your own conclusions.

Frankyc2003
19-01-2014, 10:11
Hi Andrei.
I used to own a rothwell MCL with lundhal txs. It wasnt very quiet in my system. And overall performance was ok. Just not 500 GPB worth of kit iMHO.
It did hum like a bumble bee on a hot afternoon. In comparison my S&B tx1003 are dead quiet and very dynamic.
Gordan (ANUBISGRAU) from this parish has an even better pair of S&B tx103 (or very similar) on sale. That would get quite close to owning a legendary Bent Sut.
But again this only reflects my humble opinion...

Marco
19-01-2014, 10:46
Okeydokey.

:popcorn: :popcorn:

Marco.

pimlicoquad
23-01-2014, 19:38
Having been switching back and forth between my Ortofon Cadenza Black direct into a Whest 30.RDT and then on into a Quad 99 at line level, or through an Ortofon SUT, the ST-80E, into the Whest or just the Ortofon ST-80E into the Quad 99's phono stage I've come to the conclusion that a well matched SUT really can make a MC cartridge sing. And the other conclusion I didn't expect was that I felt the best combination was the SUT into the Quad 99's phono stage. With the Whest on its own, somehow the cartridge never came alive in quite the same way. It was very good, don't get me wrong, but the whole presentation seemed a little held back. In both cases when using the SUT, it seemed to free up the response of the cartridge across the frequency range. No doubt some will say I am just listening to euphonic distortion applied by the transformer, but whatever it is, I know I preferred it. From all I have read though, the most important thing with an SUT is to get one that is matched to the cartridges internal impedance and that will work with the load presented by the amplifier.

Marco
23-01-2014, 20:16
Hi Richard,

Your experiences almost entirely mirror mine, and with some of the same equipment.

Although I absolutely love my Paul Hynes head amp, and in some areas it outperforms my ST-80SE, when I switch back to the latter, I can clearly hear what its presentation has over the head amp (and it's got bugger all to do with euphonic distortion) - so I use both, depending on how the mood takes me! :eyebrows:

At the end of the day, it's nice to have a choice. High-quality SUTs, optimally matched to a specific cartridge, will always have a magic of their own.

Marco.

lurcher
23-01-2014, 21:35
That would get quite close to owning a legendary Bent Sut

I thought the Bent was a tx103 in a nice housing?

The Grand Wazoo
24-01-2014, 00:32
I thought the Bent was a tx103 in a nice housing?

Well yes......
.....and about the same price too, when I bought mine, as just buying the raw transformers from S&B - even with the cost of them crossing the Atlantic twice. And less than half the price of the Music First unit - who says you can't beat direct selling, eh?! I notice also, that nowadays the price difference between copper and silver 103's is a premium of over 300% for the silver - about 6 times more than when I was discussing options with John Chapman and borrowing various units to try. The silver version is nice, but it's not a universally better option.


I thought the Bent was a tx103 in a nice housing?

...but no!
.....with the Bent Mu the nice housing isn't just 'nice' - it's the way it is for good reason. The walls of the cylinders are 1/4" thick mu metal, the S&Bs are sitting in and on a layer of sorbothane. Unlike the Music First unit, there is no switching to get in the way of the signal and the loading is done via bare resistors clamped between binding posts.