Storage Recommendations (for Mac) [Archive]

webby

09-06-2009, 17:29

Hi,

So, I have my iMac, already have a hifi and I'm now shortlisting DAC's. Now, where do I store all my rips (once I get started)?

I want to rip lossless so I need at least 500gb, but do I just go with an external hard drive like a Lacie (I have a 250gb model already) or do I need one of these NAS things? What are they exactly?

Bear in mind that I have a Mac, running Mac OS X.

All help gratefully received.

Webby

Beechwoods

09-06-2009, 19:08

I would go with a Firewire drive if you can afford it - Firewire is realtime-quicker than USB and plays well with the Mac. Alternatively USB is fine. I wouldn't go for NAS unless you want to share your drive of tunes with multiple machines (and even then you can do that without NAS on Macs via Bonjour providing your external drives are Firewire).

NAS is slow. Particularly in terms of transferring content to it. Fast enough to stream lossless audio, but you wouldn't want to build your system around it unless you really had no other choice... imho :)

Lacie drives are nice. I have a 500Gb Lacie Firewire drive holding my iTunes libraries on my G5... A bit pricey, but you get what you pay for. It's housed in military grade solid aluminium (or something :eyebrows:)!

DaveK

09-06-2009, 20:54

Hi,
I know little of Macs being a PC man myself but I think that you MAY be interested in eBuyer.co.uk current offer of a choice of 4 manufacturers 1TB USB exterior drives, all at £69.99 inc VAT and delivery. This is a current special offer only - they sent me an e-mail today about it but I deleted it - sorry - so I can't give you a link and I can't find it on their website - if you are interested it may be best to give them a call.
Hope this is of interest,
:cool:

DaveK

09-06-2009, 20:59

Found 'em !!! :)
See: -

http://www.ebuyer.com/search?sq=1+TB&q=1%2BTB&sq=USB&sort=pricelow&limit=10&page=1&subsearch=Go

Hope this is of interest,:cool:

twelvebears

10-06-2009, 05:53

Hi Webby.

Agree with Nick (Beechwoods) about going for direct attached rather than NAS unless you particularly need it because of the speed.

Less convinced for the need for firewire specifically, as I use a iMac for steaming both lossless music and HD video via USB2 and haven't felt the need to go firewire yet.

It's fine if your chosen drive has it anyway, just not convinced it's worth choosing a drive specifically for it.

One thing not mentioned here is, please, please, please DON'T rely on a single drive to store your music. Assuming most of your stuff was ripped from CD, that's a lot of hours of feeding CDs to your computer which you wouldn't want to repeat.

As a minimum, get a two HD drive which uses RAID1 (mirroring) or possibly consider a DROBO which you can fill with drives of whatever size you have handy and then expand at will if required.

Beechwoods

10-06-2009, 06:10

I absolutely agree with Steve about ensuring you have your music backed up. I lost a full 500Gb drive once, with no backup and I'm still smarting from the experience.

I use Carbon Copy Cloner (http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html) on my Mac to automatically keep my backups in sync. It's free, reliable, and easy to use.

Primalsea

10-06-2009, 07:28

I agree with the above but would say that pretty much any USB2 or Firewire external drive will work. If you spend a little more you should be able to find a unit that houses 2 drives with the Raid capability mentioned. There are many types of Raid and similar systems for automatic back up. You want the one that basically copies the content of 1 drive to the other and then continues to update any new content to it (mirroring).

One thing about external Firewire and USB drives is that they constantly spin the hard drive where internal ones power down the drive when its not in use. The constant spinning can shorten the life of the drive so its a good idea to buy a drive with quality hard drives in.

webby

10-06-2009, 10:29

StanleyB

10-06-2009, 10:47

One thing about external Firewire and USB drives is that they constantly spin the hard drive where internal ones power down the drive when its not in use.
Some do power down. My Freecom 350 does.

Beechwoods

10-06-2009, 12:03

Is RAID something the drive has to have or is it set up by the OS (MAC OS X)?

Sounds liek 2 500gb Lacie's might be the way to go. Unless you have any other recommendations, ie quieter drives than the Lacie.

You can get Hardware RAID and Software RAID. OSX supports Software RAID which basically lets you plug in two drives and then configure the system so it reads and writes to them as if they are 1 drive. Hardware RAID basically presents two physical discs (often in the same enclosure with one wire out of it) as a single drive, handling all the dual reads and writes transparently to the OS.

There are two words of caution regarding RAID:

1. Software RAID - if your OS gets corrupted and you need to reinstall you may find that your RAID backups are rendered unusable since the OS acts as controller.
2. Hardware RAID - again, if the controller goes wrong you are as good as fried unless you're prepared to get an expert to rebuild the array hardware from scratch.

I say this because I once had a RAID drive fail on me and even Vogon, the forensic data recovery people couldn't do anything about it. And they quoted prices starting at £500 as ballpark fix costs, had it been repairable (which it wasn't!) Because RAID uses both drives and controllers, there's one more thing (the controller) to go wrong, so failure rates can be higher than non-RAID backup solutions. That's why I have two physically separate drives and software to keep the two in snyc, as an overnight process rather than real-time.

webby

10-06-2009, 12:46

All good info Nick, thanks.

Are all external drives much of a muchness or would you recommend any in particular?

I'm thinking that if I had 2 x 500gb externals, once I'd ripped the majority of my discs onto the first and done the final backup (obviously backing up along the way), I'd only need to backup if and when I add any more discs, right?

Edit: Using this method, can the drives be daisy chained or do they both have to be plugged into the iMac?

Beechwoods

10-06-2009, 18:09

Carbon Copy Cloner allows incremental backups (just new / changed stuff) if so configured. All other decent backup software will as well.

Not sure about daisy-chaining drives using USB. You definitely can with Firewire, though I must admit I've had compatibility problems doing that with some drive / cd-writer combinations. I'd just get a decent hub (USB or Firewire) and use that as the source for all your drives.

I've bought drives in the past based on popularity and price, eBuyer is as good as anywhere and has good user reviews. Freecom, Seagate and Western Digital are ones I've used personally. You may want to focus on ones with metal cases that run cool without fans because the fans can get quite noisy.

webby

11-06-2009, 09:40

I've posted an update as to where I am now with all this lovely info I've been given :)

webby

16-06-2009, 10:27

Peter Stockwell

16-06-2009, 11:12

Are you going to use iTunes ? If so I think direct attached storage, as opposed to Network Attached Storage (NAS), is preferable. If you are going to use a squeezebox or some such then I think that a NAS running the squeezecenter is preferable. My mac has Squeezecenter & iTunes running, and I think it takes away some system performance.

An advantage of the squeezebox is that the analogue outputs are respectable, and I couldn't readily tell the difference between them and the output coming from a Beresford TC-7510 Mk6/3. This surprised me, because I was very pleased with the Beresford when using an airport express. A squeezebox can also use a wired lan connection, wireless leaves you exposed to dropouts caused by microwave ovens.

webby

16-06-2009, 11:35

I'm going to use iTunes, probably with an Airport Express. I can't afford the Squeeze...

Peter Stockwell

16-06-2009, 13:54

I'm going to use iTunes, probably with an Airport Express. I can't afford the Squeeze...

Well, I see your point, but bear in mind that an airport express and a cheap dac is about £200 minimum, whereas a squeezebox is about £200. You can use the analogue out from the squeezebox. To my ears, I could not identify a worthwhile difference compared with the digital output and the Beresford TC-7510 Mk6/3 (Which is why I'm selling the Beresford). With a squeezebox classic, you get a display and a remote control. You do have to run additional software on your computer. You can use iTunes to rip and organise your files. There's a plug in for Squeezecenter that updates play counts and last played information.

Also, if you have a microwave oven near you you'll have drop outs, the microwave leakage is in the same frequency bandwidth as the Airport express, and the squeezebox for that matter. You can run the squeezebox with an ethernet connection, or a "crossover" cable connected to a lan socket on your PC, then you don't have to worry about these dropouts.

Peter Stockwell

16-06-2009, 14:21

Should I be avoiding 'portable mini drives' such as this (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lacie-250GB-Portable-USB-2-Hard-Drive-Porsche-Design_W0QQitemZ320382351633QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ Computing_HardDrives_RL?hash=item4a9846b911&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50) one. They have a speed of 5400rpm, and are USB powered.

I have a western digital my passport, a nice "little" drive with 320Gb. I think a self powered usb drive ought to be sufficient. My main storage is a Drobo with 1.3Tb, but I think I saw a bit too big.

twelvebears

16-06-2009, 14:58

I would echo Peter's comments re wireless vs wired. A good wireless connection can be fine because of the data buffer most streaming devices use but they can still have problems so a wire is always better.

If actually having a physical cable is a pain, I've found the Powerline adapters work very well, especially the higher bandwidth 200Mpbs versions (you actually get nearer 100Mbps in practice).

Regarding direct attached vs NAS storage, I've had both iTunes and Squeezebox arrangements using both, and while both work OK, in practice, the system performance hit of running on the computer (assuming a reasonably up to date machine) is pretty minimal as it's only steaming data. Conversely, unless you're using only of the more expensive NAS units, the response of Squeezebox can be pretty sluggish/laggy.

Unless wanting/needing to be able to use your Squeezebox without your PC being switched on, I'd be inclined to run the application on the PC/Mac rather than the NAS box.

Using a NAS as the storage solution is fine as long as uber-fast data transfer isn't required (HD video may cause a bit of a bottleneck), and is the obvious choice if you have mutiple machines which need to access the data.

webby

16-06-2009, 15:50

The reason I'm thinking wireless is purely because of the cable run from my mac to my hifi, which is over 5m. I don't mind a cable that long (appearance wise) but my research has told me that at this length, a quality signal is compromised, both with USB and Optical. Maybe not so much optical, but I can't afford a 20ft glass optical cable, so I'd need a good plastic one.

twelvebears

16-06-2009, 16:59

Hi Webby.

The distance really shouldn't be an issue, you'll have exactly the setup I will have in a few weeks, post-house move. Use either an ethernet cable or powerline ethernet adapter from your Mac to Airport Express, then just have short optical cable between the AE and your HiFi, no need to get a huge long optical cable.

Having had both a SB and now using Apple TV/Airport Express, I think both are good solutions, but if you happen to have either an iPod Touch or an iPhone remember that you can control your streamed music to your AE using the Touch or iPhone as a fantastic touch-screen, full colour remote control. :)

webby

16-06-2009, 18:09

Beechwoods

16-06-2009, 18:10

if you happen to have either an iPod Touch or an iPhone remember that you can control your streamed music to your AE using the Touch or iPhone as a fantastic touch-screen, full colour remote control. :)

Or alternatively Salling Clicker (http://www.salling.com/Clicker/mac/) can be used to turn pretty much any modern Bluetooth mobile into a great controller for iTunes and a bunch of other apps. I've used it and it's brilliant! You can even write your own controllers for it if you're inclined to have a mess about with Applescript :)

twelvebears

17-06-2009, 12:09

Hi Webby.

I'll check with my IT professional friend, but no, I don't believe you can do that, at least not easily. To use a wired connection, you need to connect both your Mac and AE to a router, not directly to each other.

I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised if your router didn't have any ethernet or USB sockets on it at all, even if it was just one to connect it to an ethernet switch (like a multi-way plug for internet connections).

Having said that, if you've got a pretty good wireless signal, you should be able to live without using a cable anyway. Just get an optical cable and connect your AE to your hifi and then stream stuff over wireless using iTunes.

As Nick says, there are variety of ways of controlling the AE stream, it's just that the iPhone/iPod Touch is a really cool option.

Once I move, my Apple TV (which I currently use to stream music to my Beresford DAC) will be in the front room with the TV, while my HiFi will be in the back room. So to replace it I've bought an AE and 1st gen Touch from eBay, £120 for both.

The great bit about using the Touch is that it means you have a full colour, touch screen remote control without the need for any screen or display.

webby

18-06-2009, 07:25

Hi Webby.

I'll check with my IT professional friend, but no, I don't believe you can do that, at least not easily. To use a wired connection, you need to connect both your Mac and AE to a router, not directly to each other.

I think you're right.

For the record, I'm now thinking about going with the Standac with an optical connection, using a budget cable of 5m+ length.

Codifus

18-06-2009, 13:00

Right, so I can connect the AE via the ethernet cable?

My internet router is wireless, so the ethernet socket on the mac is free. I just plug the AE into there do I? Interesting.

Now, is there 'bad' and 'good' ethernet cable?

Webby, you want the express to sit right next to the hifi and have a short optical cable (minitoslink). With the ethernet cable, simply treat the airport express as an ethernet device. Any old standard CAT5 or better (CAT6, 6e, 7 etc) cable will do. In your scenario, you would connect the ethernet cable between the router and the airport express. Most wireless routers usually have 5 ethernet ports as well.

Also, when shopping for firewire devices, make sure it has the oxford chipset.

I built my FW/USB external drive from here;

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/firewire/1394/USB/EliteAL/eSATA_FW800_FW400_USB

These drives happily connect to Macs via Firewire then just as easily connect to PCs on USB 2.0. You would take this for granted but I've had experiences with other drives and the FW connectivity was more often than not sadly lacking.