View Full Version : Audiocom Naim CDX
Peter Stockwell
09-06-2009, 07:10
{Moved from the 'Digital Impression'}
I've finally received and installed my CDX after modifications by Mark Bartlett at Audiocom International. I did the heretical thing for a number of reasons, not necessarily in order of importance :
I'd taken the jump from my Spacearmed 401 to the SME IV on the SL120, and the CD player was lagging behind
Marco was elogious of Mark's work
A CDX get's almost no respect these days
I felt like it
Mark told the that his modifications, which have not replaced any original naim components, need 200 hours or so to bed in. I have to say it has impressed me right out of the box!
Mark installed Bybee purifiers in critical parts of the Analogue and Digital circuits. In his propositions, he suggested two modifications levels (Level 1 & Level 2). I can't now remember exactly where the Purifers were installed, but Mark finally managed to update the Analogue Power Supply, The Digital Power Supply and the Analogue line out stage. I signed up for level 1.5, but Mark has confirmed that it's actually Level 2.
I sent the player to Mark in February and it's almost 4 months that i've not had the CDX in the system. In the meantime some interconnects have changed in the system, I can't in all truthfullness rememeber exactly how the CDX sounded before modifications. My memory is of an engaging player with enough detail to be interesting that respects the rhythmic flow of music.
All the virtues of the CDX as I love it remain, but last night, listening to the "Best of Diana Krall" and "Music for the film Kansas City" (this is a "live" recording of a big jazz band for Robert Altman's film) I was rewarded with an ease of playback that I did not recall from before. It's hard to put into words, but the best CD player I'd heard up to this point was a CDS3/555PS on the front of 552/300 into some Sonus Faber Amati - this managed to almost bring the performers to life. A sort of they are here sensation.
Well, ok audio memory is not reliable, but I felt my CDX modified by audiocom and the XPS is as good as the standard CDS3/555PS. I'm sure it is musically!
Thanks Mark :)
Hi Peter,
Great news, mate! I'm glad that the mods worked out for you and that you've finally got your CDX back in working order to enjoy them :)
You're hearing the right things, as when I had my Sony modified by Mark, you could immediately discern a massive improvement straight from the box, but I can also tell you that you've got a lot more to come after completion of the burn-in period - expect another 20-30% of further increased performance over what you're getting now. It just happens all of a sudden: one day you'll pop a disc in, press play, and think "bloody hell!!" :smoking:
Quite simply, Mark's knowledge of digital circuitry is second to none; he's capable of transforming (already good) equipment into something truly special that is able to compete at the highest level.
Unleashing the full potential of quality equipment and turning it into 'giant-killers' is where I'm at with hi-fi these days - witness the Techy, Glenn's modifying (and my further tweaking with valves, pots, etc) of my Croft preamp, and of course Mark's excellent work with my Sony CDP X-777ES and DAS-R1. It's definitely the way forward and the route to take for maximum return on SPPV, as is buying bespoke equipment from specialist manufacturers, such as Tube Distinctions.
I just wish more people would ignore 'badges' and have the conviction and dedication to go this route, as the potential sonic rewards, and resulting increased musical satisfaction is huge!
Peter, as your thread is a mini-review would you mind if I moved it into Strokes of Genius, where it really deserves to be archived properly for reference?
Marco.
Peter Stockwell
09-06-2009, 08:09
Marco,
I didn't know where to put this, and I thought that AOS deserved the scoop ;)
Transfer it where you see fit.
The other thing, I noticed. Is that while I didn't have the CDX I wanted to change loads of things, but now it's back I feel a lot more relaxed.
Nice one, Peter :)
It would normally go in here, but since it's more of a mini-review SOG is its rightful home, so I'll pop it in there now. [Now done]
The other thing, I noticed. Is that while I didn't have the CDX I wanted to change loads of things, but now it's back I feel a lot more relaxed.
That's the most conclusive sign of all that what you've done is fundamentally right!
Marco.
Audiocom AV
09-06-2009, 11:47
Hi Peter
Thank you for your positive comments!
Having used the Bybee products for some time now I was initially quite sceptical about the idea of a ‘purifier’, or ‘filter’. In my experience with other filters what you often gain on one hand you lose on the other. Is was not until a customer called about an upgrade and insisted on using the Bybee purifiers because he had heard a friends system upgraded with them that I took the chance to try them. I made a quick mock up installation of a pair in a Sony DAS-R1 DAC, already extensively upgraded. The improvements I heard using a pair in the analogue supply of the DAC both surprised and impressed me enough to take a serious look at the product. Since that time the Bybee products have graced many products from CD players to loudspeakers. In the case of the Naim CDX I felt that the sound although dynamic, coherent, was prone to harshness, hardening of tones and long term listening compromised. By installing the Bybee product the character of the CDX was unchanged but the music made more sense in terms of intelligibility, hearing ambience in the music, tonal naturalness, and removing digital gripes like harshness. Even at the 50 hour break-in stage the CDX made better music, and after 200 hours the sound will really begin to flourish.
I am confident that the Bybee product will improve any system, and at the higher end where the next stage of upgrading gets very costly, the Bybee products increase system performance to often match or exceed the performance of upgrading CD player, amp, to the next model up.
Audiocom AV
09-06-2009, 12:19
Unleashing the full potential of quality equipment and turning it into 'giant-killers' is where I'm at with hi-fi these days - witness the Techy, Glenn's modifying (and my further tweaking with valves, pots, etc) of my Croft preamp, and of course Mark's excellent work with my Sony CDP X-777ES and DAS-R1. It's definitely the way forward and the route to take for maximum return on SPPV, as is buying bespoke equipment from specialist manufacturers, such as Tube Distinctions.
Hey Marco
Thanks for your praise. :)
There is certainly a mass of audio gear out there only flying at half mast, sonically speaking. With Many older generation CD players, 5 years, 10 years, even 20 years, are not necessarily bettered by modern day players using the latest 24 /192 DAC’s, upsampling, and variety of digital filter options. Take a good quality player using the TDA1541A, PCM63P-K and rework the design and the sound can be truly stunning and deliver some of that promise from Compact Disc.
Hey, Mark, just think what the impact might be if you could get hold of more Naim CDPs (maybe even a CDS3 or 555?), and word spread amongst the aficionados about just how effective the Bybees and your mods are... ;)
Peter, I dare you to post your findings on the Naim forum!! :eyebrows:
Trouble is, would they be open-minded enough to give it a go in the first place or would their blind indoctrination to the approach that 'Naim know best' hamper their logical thought process?
Mmmm..........
There is certainly a mass of audio gear out there only flying at half mast, sonically speaking. With Many older generation CD players, 5 years, 10 years, even 20 years, are not necessarily bettered by modern day players using the latest 24 /192 DAC’s, upsampling, and variety of digital filter options. Take a good quality player using the TDA1541A, PCM63P-K and rework the design and the sound can be truly stunning and deliver some of that promise from Compact Disc.
I completely concur with that; indeed extensive experience of listening proves beyond question that this is the case! :)
What's important to remember with Peter's CDX is that you've retained the core signature of what is undoubtedly a well-built and specified, musical sounding CDP; but merely enhanced the 'flavour' of what was already there - rather like the effect of an expertly executed beurre noisette on a fine piece of Turbot...
Marco.
P.S Don't worry, I haven't forgotten about coming down to visit - I've just been up to my eyes in it, and have also recently bought a rather nice new pair of speakers!
Peter Stockwell
09-06-2009, 13:05
Hey, Mark, just think what the impact might be if you could get hold of more Naim CDPs (maybe even a CDS3 or 555?), and word spread amongst the aficionados about just how effective the Bybees and your mods are... ;)
Peter, I dare you to post your findings on the Naim forum!! :eyebrows:
Not worth it in my view, it'll cut very quicly and it's clearly against the forums rules - Once upon a time it was possible but there's not much scope for debate over on the Naim forum. pfm would be a candidate and I did think of putting it there, because I'm sure it would attract a lot of attention.
What's important to remember with Peter's CDX is that you've retained the core signature of what is undoubtedly a well-built and specified, musical sounding CDP; but merely enhanced the 'flavour' of what was already there - rather like the effect of an expertly executed beurre noisette on a fine piece of Turbot...
That's not how I'd put it, at all, to use gastronomic analogies because I don't see/hear Mark's work with my CDX as enhanced in the sense of addition. I see it as subtraction of sonic artifacts that are undesirable. Say, more like eating a perfectly aged steak without any sauce, for example. I think if, anything, it's more akin to the way a wee drop of (highland) spring water to a fine malt whisky will a) take away the burning edge of the alcohol and b) allow the more subtle flavours of the whisky to shine through.
As I said it is really dificult to put your finger on what the Bybee's do, because it's more what they don't do :) . Put it this way, I'm not sure I want to play golf this weekend, now :lol:
Peter Stockwell
09-06-2009, 14:15
From the Naim Forum rules :
"We cannot sanction discussion of modifications to internal components of Naim equipment and this also extends, at the Moderators' discretion, to products from other manufacturers."
Peter,
Not worth it in my view, it'll cut very quicly and it's clearly against the forums rules - Once upon a time it was possible but there's not much scope for debate over on the Naim forum. pfm would be a candidate and I did think of putting it there, because I'm sure it would attract a lot of attention.
Yes I fondly remember the old days where objective discussion was allowed without religious pandering to the 'party line'. But that was when Richard Dane was the appointed moderator - by all accounts an altogether more well-balanced and fair-minded chap than Mr Meredith.
You should definitely post your findings though on pfm; if for no other reason than to expose the benefits of Mark's modifications to a much bigger, although perhaps less appreciative audience :)
That's not how I'd put it, at all, to use gastronomic analogies because I don't see/hear Mark's work with my CDX as enhanced in the sense of addition. I see it as subtraction of sonic artifacts that are undesirable. Say, more like eating a perfectly aged steak without any sauce, for example. I think if, anything, it's more akin to the way a wee drop of (highland) spring water to a fine malt whisky will a) take away the burning edge of the alcohol and b) allow the more subtle flavours of the whisky to shine through.
I think both analogies work. However, I guess that to fully grasp mine depends on how one defines gastronomy.
I see it as taking high quality raw ingredients and developing them (enhancing their flavour complementarily and sympathetically) to create an end result, in terms of eating experience, which supersedes that possible from the raw ingredients cooked au naturel. If you've ever tasted fresh Turbot cooked plainly and then afterwards with the addition of a small amount of perfectly made beurre noisette, gently drizzled over the top, you'll know what I mean... Man, you live in Paris, so you must know these things! :smoking:
After all, chefs don't win Michelin Stars by grilling a steak (no matter how high quality the meat) and just plonking it on a plate ;)
To use another analogy, Mark's work is like that of a bespoke picture frame mounted on a beautiful painting of a well-known artist: the former sympathetically enhances the existing beauty of the latter to create a more artistically commendable whole. In effect, pleasure thus derived from ownership of the piece is accordingly increased - as it is with listening to music on donor CDPs of requisite quality after Audiocom modifications.
As I said it is really dificult to put your finger on what the Bybee's do, because it's more what they don't do . Put it this way, I'm not sure I want to play golf this weekend, now...
Now that is a result! I've only got a single Bybee fitted to the most critical point in the circuit of my DAS-R1. Further investigation into the fitting elsewhere of more, amongst some other tweakery, will take place in due course :cool:
Marco.
Steve Toy
09-06-2009, 16:07
Bodging Naim equipment - that's just plain bloody daft. The only way to improve on Naim is to upgrade to better Naim. It costs money I know but you have be prepared to pay for the very best.
Right, I'm off to a boozy lunch at my exclusive club where pinkos, bodgers and plebs are not allowed.
Regards,
Mick.
Do you, per chance, old chap have a penchant for bespoke fountain pens, high-waist slacks, 'package' holidays in oik-infested foreign resorts, and possess questionable taste in wallpaper? ;)
God bless our Mick!
Marco.
P.S I note that you've called, but I'm right in the middle of doing some marking now for Del and can't stop!
"Bybee Quantum Purifiers operate on the quantum mechanical level to regulate the flow of electrons that make up the signal "
As soon as I see the word "Quantum" used to describe the workings of a product I lose
interest.
You shouldn't, Mark. This stuff works. Listen to the testimonials of delighted customers of Audiocom Bybee-modified CDPs, not the technical blurb on websites! The former is what really matters ;)
Marco.
Audiocom AV
09-06-2009, 16:57
"Bybee Quantum Purifiers operate on the quantum mechanical level to regulate the flow of electrons that make up the signal "
As soon as I see the word "Quantum" used to describe the workings of a product I lose
interest.
Mark
I understand your point; it was part of the reason why our company did not take up evaluating the Bybee products sooner. The fact is the product works, numerous installs across of variety of audio gear, feedback from customers is testimony that not only do they work, they are a remarkable product.
Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
09-06-2009, 19:20
Hi Mark
I had the ByBee Products fitted to a Modwright Pre Amp SWL 9.0se a pair on the mains and a pair on the O/P. Had an unmoddified version as a direct comparrison.
Mark I think you used the term 'the music made more sense' is a good description. My current Modwright 36.5 doesn't have any fitted, but it is certainly on the cards for the future.
Some people will laugh, let them, these things do work. Just don't ask me for the explination.
Andy - SDDW
Well, you have to draw the line somewhere and that's where I've drawn mine.
Had a look at the ByBee website and I see he's at Half Moon Bay (not too far from me).
Maybe I'll take a trip, but the retail store " The Bybee Connection " looks like a house.
Anyway it's a nice drive along US 1 it goes all the way along the coast.
edit
my mistake it says "retail source " not "retail store" so maybe he does work from his house !
Peter Stockwell
10-06-2009, 06:22
Bodging Naim equipment - that's just plain bloody daft. The only way to improve on Naim is to upgrade to better Naim. It costs money I know but you have be prepared to pay for the very best.
Right, I'm off to a boozy lunch at my exclusive club where pinkos, bodgers and plebs are not allowed.
Regards,
Mick.
:lol::lol::lol: Thing is Mick hasn't upgraded in ages! Does Mick post here ?
Peter Stockwell
10-06-2009, 06:23
Well, you have to draw the line somewhere and that's where I've drawn mine.
Had a look at the ByBee website and I see he's at Half Moon Bay (not too far from me).
Maybe I'll take a trip, but the retail store " The Bybee Connection " looks like a house.
Anyway it's a nice drive along US 1 it goes all the way along the coast.
edit
my mistake it says "retail source " not "retail store" so maybe he does work from his house !
Yes, easy to dismiss as Snake oil but the results when installed by a professional, such as Mark. I like Half Moon Bay, some interesting restaurants down there.
Steve Toy
10-06-2009, 10:37
Check the memberlist under community above...
Peter Stockwell
11-06-2009, 10:41
a nice bybee link:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/1202/bybee.htm
Peter,
that's old info now :-
" The Purifier uses a combination of rare earth metal oxides in a ceramic form " 2002
"In 2003 there were breakthrough developments concerning the theoretically ideal materials and physical form needed to optimize noise reduction and electron flow through the signal path. Advances in materials science and fabrication technology have resulted in a unique new carbon fiber-based Quantum Purifier with electron noise reduction and electron Slipstream transmission properties that are distinctly audible and visible, and superior to Jack Bybee’s earlier developments."
You know, when he started off he was potting the resistors in his ceramic mixture with the whole thing in a metal cylinder, then he dropped the cylinder just coated the resistor in ceramic ,now it looks like the ceramic has gone and replaced by what ? I'm not sure.
Regular
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/mm5/graphics/bybee/bybee_small_purifier.jpg
Silver
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/mm5/graphics/bybee/bybee_silver_purifier.jpg
Gold
http://www.soundlabsgroup.com.au/mm5/graphics/bybee/bybee_gold_purifier.jpg
Peter Stockwell
12-06-2009, 06:36
Mark,
Thanks for the update.
Peter,
I've been reading about your current abandonment of vinyl due to the lease of life your CDX has been given after Mark's excellent work with Bybees... I know exactly what you're going through, as I felt a similar way after I had my Sony modified. Having sampled what Mark can do with CDPs, you've got an idea now of the kind of performance I enjoy with digital. I suspect, however, that you're still seduced by the convenience factor of CD and/or computer audio over vinyl, especially when digital can get close.
However, once the 'honeymoon period' is over, as fantastic as your CDX sounds, your Techy should still be noticeably superior with high quality vinyl recordings. Even my heavily-modified Sony, which with respect I'd suggest is a level or two above your CDX, as superb as it is, doesn't get near my 1210, musically, when playing the very best recordings on vinyl.
That's no disrespect to Mark's ability or his modifications - it's simply, IMO, the gulf between CD and vinyl when both are done really well :)
Marco.
Peter Stockwell
12-06-2009, 11:47
I've some records I bought in January that I've still not unpacked and listened to! shame on me:lol: .
I've downgraded the streaming audio solution to background only. From some discussions on the unofficial french Naim forum, I decided to use the analogue output from the SB Classic instead of going via the Beresford, and to my great surprise there's not a huge difference. So One box and one set of cables less, and a mains socket freed up! (The Dac is now for sale). I was going to invest in another micro computer to serve as a Squeezecenter server, but that's definitely shelved.
Listening to the same music from Squeezebox and then from the CDX and vice versa shows that the CDX is a much, much clearer window into the music. I'm looking forward to hearing more. I was thinking that, somehow, the CDX just wouldn't let loose the music, a just slightly restrained, held back quality. That feeling is fading.
I have to find the time to do a complete reinstall of everything in my system, but there's new developments on the way. The DualTeddyCap II is to be upgraded to a DualTeddyCapIII and by the beginning of July an Avondale 260 (2 M130's in one box). I think I owe it to myself to have a better phonostage than the Clearaudio, I might just bite the bullet and get a superline, but I'm not hurrying for that. Otherwise it's a Kora.
So more to come.
Peter Stockwell
23-06-2009, 07:06
The CDX is really very good! I think Mark succeeded admirably in keeping the Naim magic and bringing it into clearer focus.
I'm believe that there's a "voicing" to Naim kit. I'm not word, because I'm not entirely sure of what it means, but what I mean is that naim kit has "naim sauce" with everything, like putting HP sauce on everything, everything tastes the same. Anyway, back to what I'm trying to say, naim imposes a characteristic that works with some music and not with other. The Bybees take way that naim sauce and let the music express itself on its own terms.
I like it, Peter! :eyebrows:
The sonic performance of your CDX has obviously developed further since we last spoke. You've still got a bit more to go, though.
Thing is, can one obtain HP sauce in Paris?
Marco.
Steve Toy
23-06-2009, 07:57
you can get anything online.
Indeed, but that wasn't the question.
Marco.
Peter Stockwell
23-06-2009, 08:26
HP sauce, maybe. I've not seen it a long time ago. There used to be a Marks & Sparks. But I haven't looked recently. My local Monoprix has some brit things like Branston Pickle. I'm sometimes hear britophones in my local shops that appear to be locals.
The process with the CDX is slow because I haven't left it on repeat and there's other stuff going on with the system. I think I'm a brick or two away from what I'm going to call a reference point.
After that, I'd like to go in a wildly different direction, but I fear that it'll have to wait along time because I don't have the space to accommodate some Klipsch speakers :lol: , and for that I'd want a lowish power tube amp.
Anyway system moving on nicely, I just added a DualTeddyCapIII which would polarise opinions in the naim world, it does on the unofficial french naim forum; Coz, as I said before, or elsewhere, HiCaps add oodles of naim sauce ;)
After that, I'd like to go in a wildly different direction, but I fear that it'll have to wait along time because I don't have the space to accommodate some Klipsch speakers , and for that I'd want a lowish power tube amp.
Oooh... Do I detect that some of the AOS 'toobs & horns' madness is rubbing off on Petey-boy? :eyebrows:
It's defo the way to go! When you feel thus inclined, you know the lads will be on hand to offer any advice/assistance :cool:
Marco.
Audiocom AV
23-06-2009, 10:05
The CDX is really very good! I think Mark succeeded admirably in keeping the Naim magic and bringing it into clearer focus.
Peter
Naim gear, any equipment from many manufacturers have a distinct flavour, I hear this a lot between Naim, Marantz & Meridian for example. The mains reason why I believe that that distinct flavour exists is because the style of circuit designs and selection of components has remained constant from the early products through to current. I could instantly tell you which company a CD player belonged to by looking at the circuit design and components. Naim, for example, use multiple regulated supplies using the LM317/LM337 and primarily Tantalum bead capacitors which all add to a distinct character of sound.
When talking to customers, most will like certain aspects of the sound of their CD player, the Naim timing, dynamics, but feel it is missing out in areas like transparency, sweetness. Changing the CD player to the next model up or a different brand often results in trade-offs. If a player like the CDX has clear strengths, than weaknesses can be removed by a balanced upgrade approach.
Best Regards,
Mark
Peter Stockwell
23-06-2009, 10:33
Oooh... Do I detect that some of the AOS 'toobs & horns' madness is rubbing off on Petey-boy? :eyebrows:
It's defo the way to go! When you feel thus inclined, you know the lads will be on hand to offer any advice/assistance :cool:
Marco.
Not quite. back in the 80s I had some Klipsh Forte II speakers, Horn midrange and treble, with a normal bass driver, and an audible illusions tuve pre-amp with some PS audio power amps. That systeml got lost and/or traded. I remember the demo I did between the Klipsches and some Kefs. The Kefs were your typical british tight arsed sound, and not bad either, but the Klipsches really brought life to the party.
Peter Stockwell
23-06-2009, 11:31
.... Naim, for example, use multiple regulated supplies using the LM317/LM337 and primarily Tantalum bead capacitors which all add to a distinct character of sound.
When talking to customers, most will like certain aspects of the sound of their CD player, the Naim timing, dynamics, but feel it is missing out in areas like transparency, sweetness. Changing the CD player to the next model up or a different brand often results in trade-offs. If a player like the CDX has clear strengths, than weaknesses can be removed by a balanced upgrade approach.
Mark,
The most surpising thing, although I should be used to it by now, is just how "coloured" most gear is. I really don't realise until present with an absence of colour. If spoken to non audiophools about how mostsystems get in the way of listening to music. What you did for my CDX is another illustration of how this so.
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