Paradise Phonostage - REVIEW

[Wakefield Turntables]

I make no excuses for errors in this text. These are my notes typed up over several days.

THE PARADISE PHONOSTAGE


Vocals are another area in which the Sugden+SUT setup shine. This combination can produce a very initimate portrayal of both male and female vocals. I have several reference records for female vocals. Firstly listening through the Paradise Janis Joplin (Mercedes Benz) you can hear Janet sitting not more than six feet in front of you in the Studio a very initimate presentation you can hear the echo of the studio as she sings. The Sugden+SUT produce exactly the same presentation but with slightly less echo effect in the studio as Janis sings, this I believe is the Paradise doing what it does best and extracting more microdetail than the Sugen+SUT setup.

This happened again when listening to a very intimate recording of Ernestine Anderson on the Sessions, Live album by Cal Tjader. I found myself getting annoyed with the members of the audience creating noise as they shifted positions in their chairs, this spoiled the intimacy of Ernestine as she sang Love Walked in. Again the Paradise digging deep into the mix of the record and presenting microdetail aplenty. The Sugden+SUT combo gave a virtually identical presentation of Ernestine singing but the background audience noise was less well defined. I must admit at this point to being completely spoilt with these two very fine phonostages and I'm quite literally splitting hairs here trying to find a difference. I'm afraid I can't really split the two phonostages in this department. I tested the intimacy of male vocals by listening to Richard Burton as he narrated his way through The War of the Worlds, again just like with Janis Joplin the studio can quite easily be pulled out of the mix and again I have to say that I couldn't really pick a winner between the two phonostages. Mr. Burton was slap bang in the middle of my soundstage as if he was sitting behind a studio mike narrating the very end of Victorian society from a martian invasion. Excellent stuff.


In my SS reference system my Sudgen+SUT combo have ruled supreme for quite some time and fended off many pretenders to their crown. This combo is extremely detailed and very forensic in nature these two qualities are extremely important to me when listening to heavy metal (deep purple/black sabbath/iron maiden etc) or when I choose to listen to Guitar Virtuoso's (Steve Vai/John Petrucci/Eddie Van Halen etc). Guitars with this combo are usually presented with lightening fast speed, very sharp note edges, raw, full of emotion, fast, visceral, impact like a sledgehammer. So I plumbed in the Paradise and listened to a night of guitar orientated rock music. To start with I was immediately dissapointed with the presentation that the Paradise conjured up. I would actually say that guitars are sounding a little "blunted" not as raw as they should be. Impact and speed were lacking. I initially thought that this must be a fluke but it started to occur from one album to the next. I heard this occur on several tracks from something as benign as the solo in Forgotton Sons (Marillion - Script for a Jesters Tear), to Eruption (Van Halen - Van Halen) where the fret work sounded a little laboured and not as precise as the Sugden+SUT combo. Poor old Richie Blackmore on Live in Japan (Deep Purple) sounded muddled with notes sounding congested and bloated. On some tracks with the Sugden+SUT combo you can hear the individual picks at the fret with the plectrum, not so with the Paradise. I'm afraid the Paradise could not match the Sugden+SUT combo in this department, a rare loss for the Paradise and one where the Sugden+SUT combo show it a clean pair of heels.


Switching over to some Jazz music =again I could not distinguish a clear winner bewteen the Paradise and the Sugden+SUT combo. Both produced a coherent, intimate soundstage with Miles Davis sounding excellent on the Lift to Scaffold LP. The paradise again doing what it does well and finding extra detail and adding a touch more timbre to Pierre Michelot's double bass. The Paradise seemed to produce a slightly less fuller sounding version of Miles Davis playing whilst the Sugden combo seemed to project his playing further into the room. Both the Paradise and Sugden+SUT combo produce a soundstage that could be easily disected easily allowing you to follow say the brush work of Kenny Clarke on drums or the bass playing of Pierre Michelot. Now switching over to that old favourite Take 5 by Dave Brubeck. Well this was a revelation the drum work on this track never sounded so clear, the snare drum had a very nice "snap" which panned over very convincingly from left to right in the sounstage. Thats something the Sugden+SUT can also produce but not to the same extent as the Paradise. Moving back to Cal Tjader and his album Sessions, Live. The Paradise produced some exquisite xylophone playing at the end of Crows Nest this was magical and I found myself floating off with the notes as they delicately faded into the ether. The notes seemed to last much longer than normal and I found myself being able to listen and define the structure of each note with great clarity. This is something that the Sugden+SUT can also do but not to the same extent as the Paradise. Moving to another recording this time the Avishai Cohen Trio. This album is great if you want to gauge the timbral qualities of double bass playing, checking out the definition of notes on a pianoor simply how much a cymbal can shimmer. Again both the Paradise and the Sugden+SUT were on a equal footing possibly the bass not sounding as full or bombastic as the Sugden+SUT combo but once again I'm being extremely critical of the Paradise. Time to make a decision. Once again I think it's the Paradise's ability to dig a little deeper and its laid back approach which seem to lend itself as a better phonostage for Jazz music. Again very very difficult to pick a winner but I would again have to conclude that the paradise only just won out and thats by a hair's breadth.


Moving over to classical. The paradise has a laid back approach that in some instances lacks any welly which can give a rather dissapointing presentation of
whats on the vinyl. This was especially true whilst listening to the HiQ Supercuts recording of Previn's version of The Planets. The paradise did a fine job but was lacking in OOooommpppphhhh and urgency, the Sugden+SUT combo seemed to generate more urgency, a bigger soundstage aand with its ability to sound more visceral did a better job of pinning me back in my chair. Altough not a purely classical album I did listen to Variations by Andrew Lloyd Webber, here his brother Julian Plays various Cello solo's and I must say the Paradise produced a very fine, taught cello performance, something the Sugden+SUT combo matched but I think the Paradise just seemed to purvey something a little more fuller. Next, moving over to Nigel Kennedy's old chestnut, Vivaldi's four seasons. Listenin through the Sugden+SUTproduces a very highly energetic Concerto No 1 in E, the paradise disappointed me and presented this in a slightly laid back presentation, loosing some of the vibrancy that I know is in those grooves.

SUGDEN

loudness - Silent to high levels but the Paradise is better
Presentation - Visceral, PRaT in abundance (betters the Paradise)
Microdetail - Matches the Paradise but lacking with some recordings.
Bass - Cavernous, textured, timbre, outshines the Paradise
Electric Guitar - Lightening fast, sledgehammer impact, raw, visceral
Vocals - Equal to Paradise (initimate, detailed, excellent timbre)
Jazz - Equal to Paradise in 99% of things but the paradise just seems to a better jazz transcriptor.
Classical - Equal to the paradise, better when extra welly needed.
Soundstage - Wide, Tight, coherent, vocalists pin pointed centrally,forensically disects and presents whatevers on the vinyl.Can sound a little veiled with microdetail retrival.


PARADISE

Loudness Silent in operation at higher volumes than the Sugden combo

Presentation Laidback, musical, great PRaT (Sudgen combo better)

Microdetail The Sugdens+SUT equal and in some instances it's superior

Bass Light, less depth not as textured, not as good as the Sugden+SUT

Electric Guitar Blunted, lacking impact, less visceral

Vocals Equal to the Sugen+SUT (intimate, detailed, excellent timbre)

Jazz Xylophones, double bass, edges to piano notes, brush work
on drums all excellent. The microdetail just aces the paradise


Classical Lacking in some of the more bombastic recordings. Superb
with cello, and violin work. Disappoints when "oommpph" needed



Soundstage Wide, coherent, laid back, lacks urgency sometmes, can be
very intimate when needed, excels with microdetail retrival
sounds more muscial than the Sugden combo.

CONCLUSION


I have to conclude that for the more heavier, visceral stuff such as Prog metal, Thrash metal then the Sugden+SUT outshines the Paradise. The same can also
be said for Bass in that the Sugden combo outshines the Paradise. If I only listened to vocal music then I could use either phonostage as they both (to my ears) produce identical results. The Paradise is a better transcriptor of Jazz music than the Sugden+SUT combo. The paradise in marginally quieter than the Sugden+SUT combo in operation so gives I would say produces a marginally quieter soundstage,in fact on a decent well recorded piece of vinyl the Paradise was silent on some pieces of vinyl whilst the Sugden+SUT produce some surface noise. We are only talking very small amounts here but I do appreciate that this will be quite important to some folks. Even without correct cartridge loading the Paradise phonostage is one hell of a piece of kit and that's why it's now sitting pride of place in my valve setup.

I still think I prefer the Sugden+SUT in my main SS setup as I feel it has a superior presentation of complicated prog music and more visceral attack, it's
considerably less laid back than the Paradise and markedly more forensic. This makes the Paradise the perfect phonostage for listening to Jazz, vocals, accoustic, folk etc where it seems more at home with it's laid back approach and superior ability to extact detail from vinyl. These abilities, to my ears give the Paradise phonostage improved musicality over the Sugden+SUT combo, which means the Paradise sounds better in my valve kit than my SS kit. I think these characteristics are especially important for intimate live recordings of which you find quite a lot of jazz/accoustic/folk/vocal recordings.

To conclude I think I have found a Reference level phonostage which now sits proudly in my valve setup, it can do 95% of what the Sugden+SUT can do, it would outpeform a Sugden Phonostage on its own. This was achieved on a cartridge load which didn't quite match my Ortofon Cadenza black!!!!! This is one hell of a piece of kit and can be improved. This is the 3 box version, it's an unknown if the 4 box version will outperform the 3 box version. Additionally, I will not be having IEC sockets in mine,there is a new op-amp upgrade, and the potential to add Eichmann silver RCA connectors into the phonostage and a myriad of other little tweaks which could improve the performance further. If you get chance BUY!

[JazzBones]

A very good review Andy, informative, straight no chaser, and what is more important to me you used a wide variety of music genre instead of being welded to just a review based on rock music (nothing wrong with rock by the way) but there are music appreciating people out there who listen to a varied diet and reviewing a peace of music based purely on Rock or Classical or Jazz does not give the complete and full picture. Happy further listening over the Holiday period mate... don't get pissed and eff up the needle or sit on a hot soldering iron :lol:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Ron,

Many thanks for the kind words. I could have gone on much further and compared avante gard rock (David Bowie, Roxy Music), folk (Joan Boaz, Dylan), disco (Chic,blondie) electronica (Kraftwork, Jan Michelle Jarre) to name but a few from each genre. The question has to be when do you stop?? I'm using the paradsie in my Valve setup at the
moment and it sounds very good. As stated in the review the loaner version I have at the moment is not the same version I ordered and potentially could sound even better. The cartridge loading was not optimal either. I'm very very lucky in that I have two systems, I'm even more lucky to have happened upon this piece of kit. Thanks Si (if your reading).

[MartinT]

SUGDEN

Presentation - Visceral, PRaT in abundance (betters the Paradise)

This I agree with. I have yet to hear an active stage that has the absolute visceral clout - dynamics - of my Hashimoto SUTs. Now I've heard a couple of FET input phono stages recently and they are very good indeed, in fact they come very, very close. They do some things better, but they don't quite manage the incredible dynamics.

I'm a little concerned about your conclusions, Andy. Do you feel that the Paradise is sufficiently ahead of the Sugden+SUT to give you overall satisfaction?

[YNWaN]

I'm a little concerned about your conclusions, Andy.

Hmm... I am too, though probably for different reasons.
------------
The terms 'incisive' and 'PRaT' are not ones I would personally have associated with Sugden gear I have heard, rather the opposite in fact. Perhaps Andrew's phono is unlike Sugden's other equipment though, I've not heard it.

[pure sound]

I may have missed it somewhere but which Sugden & which SUT are you comparing it to?

[John]

I think there in Andy equipment list PHONOSTAGE Sugden Masterclass PA4 SUT Ortofon ST80SE

[pure sound]

Ok, thanks.

[Wakefield Turntables]

This I agree with. I have yet to hear an active stage that has the absolute visceral clout - dynamics - of my Hashimoto SUTs. Now I've heard a couple of FET input phono stages recently and they are very good indeed, in fact they come very, very close. They do some things better, but they don't quite manage the incredible dynamics.

I'm a little concerned about your conclusions, Andy. Do you feel that the Paradise is sufficiently ahead of the Sugden+SUT to give you overall satisfaction?

The Paradise in some instances is streets ahead of the Sugden+SUT combo and in others lacking BUT it's not been setup perfectly for my carts so I would suspect that my findings are skewed. My quest for a new phonostage started when I finished my Garrard 301. I wanted something that I could potentially use
with both my system. I've found that the Paradise suits my valve gear far better than the Sugden+SUT combo so it does give better satisfaction than when the sugden+sut are plumbed into the valve gear but not when it's plugged into my SS stuff. Overall I'm very happy and can say that the Paradise won't be going anywhere fast.



Hmm... I am too, though probably for different reasons.
------------
The terms 'incisive' and 'PRaT' are not ones I would personally have associated with Sugden gear I have heard, rather the opposite in fact. Perhaps Andrew's phono is unlike Sugden's other equipment though, I've not heard it.

Hey remember that's only my view, perhaps you have gear that is far more transparent than mine. At the end of the day I spend hours every day listening to the Sugden+SUT combo and I'm very happy with it. Listening to John Petrucci playing Flight of the Bumblebee at a zillion notes per second may change your mind. :eyebrows: Or maybe not. ;) I've had some stupidly expensive phonostages sitting in both my valve and SS setups and both the Paradise and Sugden+SUT have fended them off. I've not written up every single record that I reviewed as it would be pretty boring. I listened to over 50 in the end. Everything from Sitar music (Meditations in Indian Sitar Music) to spoken word (Railways in Aspic - BBC recordings), to 1st pressing of Prog, Thrash, Folk etc. The Paradise as stated does 95%+ of a Sugden+SUT combo and whilst not properly cartridge matched. This is one HELL of a phonostage.

[Wakefield Turntables]

A new four box version of the paradise is on its way to my house soon. This means an update to my review and more hours spent listening to vinyl. Life is hard!

[John]

I hope it brings the attack you crave. For me this would be essential

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well lets hope so. This new version which I'm getting varies from the one Simon let me borrow and he already seems to think that he might have to update his (the one I reviewed). Additionally I will be reviewing the new 4 box version with the P10 connected :eyebrows: so i'm hoping for further gains from the P10 and the new tweaks Simon has built in.

[Wakefield Turntables]

4 box version now arrived :eek: I've been told to get 200hours into the system before it beds down. I've managed about 2 today!! First impressions are very very good. There is NO surface noise of well looked after vinyl. This new 4 box version has been optimised for my carts (Denon 103/Ortofon Cadenza black) the other 3 box version I trialled wasn't so didn't perform optimally. I also have a beefier power supply, thicker cabling, and no IEC's to worry about. It's probably going to be several weeks before I update this thread again. So, I guess I better just listen to some vinyl and get the thing bedded in, life is hard!

[Wakefield Turntables]

I never did write up or compare the 4 box version of the paradise to my Sugen + SUT setup. I'm hoping to get some more upgrades installed into my paradise over the next few weeks/months thanks to Simon of this Forum. I wonder how my new 4 box version compares to my current setup and how the upgraded paradise compares to my current phonostage. I'm hoping the paradise will outperform the sugden + sut setup and give me a new reference phonostage ;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

We'll Simon has purloined my paradise for a while and will be upgrading the beast, we have some Calvin buffers, new op-amps, some new transformers going in and hopefully better cartridge matching. I've been promising a review of the four box version and it will be forthcoming when the newer paradise returns. Let's hope it can trash the sugden!!!!

[Macca]

If it doesn't the Sugden must be something really special since the Paradise we heard at NEBO (with a mere 2 boxes) was truly awesome.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Don't forget Martin I put the paradise up against the sugden+sut I think that's why it edged it.

[Floyddroid]

Agreed.
If it doesn't the Sugden must be something really special since the Paradise we heard at NEBO (with a mere 2 boxes) was truly awesome.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Did you hear Alan's paradise?

[Macca]

Yes we did.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Looking forward to getting the updated paradise, look out for a review. :D

[337alant]

Yes we did.

Thanks for the kind comments guys

It was this one you heard

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5589/14702770737_ca2e504414_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/opexvc)nebp 4-4 (https://flic.kr/p/opexvc) by 337alant (https://www.flickr.com/people/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

The updated version of my paradise has been returned. Its had about 15 hours usage so far, I'll probably add another 35 making a grand total of 50 before it goes up for review. Watch this space!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Burning the phonostage in for a few more hours and getting my new vinyl review list organised.

[sq225917]

I'm all ears.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Easy tiger still plonking a few more hours onto the paradise. Found a couple of neat torture tracks for later this week. Stay tooned.

[Andrei]

For burn-in do you have to keep playing LPs or can you input an attenuated digital source?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've just been playing lp's through the valve setup, it's dual functionality the phonostage gets burned in I get to chill :eek:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Been promising this for a while. So here is part one of the review. I have reviewed lots of new stuff on the Sugden Phonostage+Ortonfon SUT combo.

AGAIN NO APOLOGIES FOR ERRORS, GRAMMER, SPELLING, etc.

Paradise Phonostage - Four Box Version
--------------------------------------

This is perhaps not a fair review as my system has changed a little since I wrote my origin review. The only two small changes to my deck are the
replacement armboard and a new platter mat. I replaced a Mike New solid copper tonearm board for a Magna Audio ebony armboard and my 5mm 1210 Acromat has been replaced with a Resomat. Apart from these two small changes the vinyl front end in my reference system has not changed. I believe I know the new sonic signature of my deck and I'm happy to pass comments on the differences bewteen my new Paradise phonostage and my current Sugden + Ortofon SUT.

So whats new in the Paradsie Phonostage ?

Well my first review was based around a two boxed version. My four boxed version is markedly different from the version which I borrowed from Simon
for starters, the main differences are :-


1. Silver Audio Note Female RCA's
2. No IEC's
3. Belden 19364 power cable used.
4. Cartridge matching has been improved to 0.3mv for output with my Ortofon Cadenza black and my Ortofon silver meister SPU.
5. Improved Op Amps
6. The Paradise is now quiter by approx 3db compared to having a low hum in my last design
7. The Calvin boards have been installed

A quick email to Simon (of the AOS Parish) revealed just what he'd done to the Paradise phonostage. Here's his reply.


"I replaced OPA134 that controls the servo with OPA627. These are more temperature stable op-amps with a lower DC offset . Basically they have 1/10th of the DC drift of the op-amps they replace which improves the DC offset correction ability of the servo 10x. I replaced the cartridge loading resistor, that was soldered to the board, with a high pressure push-fit arrangement that allows you to swap between any standard 0.8mm legged resistors, Vishay foils and Naked Charcrofts etc etc.

The output stage which was a 'relatively' modest affair has been replaced with a much higher quality output buffer. It has far greater driving ability and much greater load in-variance. It also has about another 20db of PSRR which means it is has even better signal to noise performance. It's built around cascaded Jfets, matched in your case to better than 1% across both channels. All the new connections are wired up with solid silver.

In the PSU I removed the 4 transformers that provide the power to the two channels. Two transformers are used in each channel and fed across a pair of common mode chokes before going into a hefty CLCR filter stage. The original transformers had less than perfect physical noise performance, noisy windings made them vibrate and they were audible when switched on from more than a couple of feet away. These were removed and replaced with new units from a different batch. They have been soldered to the boards by their legs but are not screwed to the boards. The underside of the pcb is damped with a Dense EVA foam pad and each pair of transformers has an identical pad bonded across their upper surfaces to help kill any noise."


Just to recap this is what I thought of both phonostages on my first review



SUGDEN

loudness - Silent to high levels but the Paradise is better
Presentation - Visceral, PRaT in abundance (betters the Paradise)
Microdetail - Matches the Paradise but lacking with some recordings.
Bass - Cavernous, textured, timbre, outshines the Paradise
Electric Guitar - Lightening fast, sledgehammer impact, raw, visceral
Vocals - Equal to Paradise (initimate, detailed, excellent timbre)
Jazz - Equal to Paradise in 99% of things but the paradise just seems to a better jazz transcriptor.
Classical - Equal to the paradise, better when extra welly needed.
Soundstage - Wide, Tight, coherent, vocalists pin pointed centrally,forensically disects and presents whatevers on the vinyl.Can sound a little veiled with microdetail

retrival.


PARADISE

Loudness Silent in operation at higher volumes than the Sugden combo

Presentation Laidback, musical, great PRaT (Sudgen combo better)

Microdetail The Sugdens+SUT equal and in some instances it's superior

Bass Light, less depth not as textured, not as good as the Sugden+SUT

Electric Guitar Blunted, lacking impact, less visceral

Vocals Equal to the Sugen+SUT (intimate, detailed, excellent timbre)

Jazz Xylophones, double bass, edges to piano notes, brush work
on drums all excellent. The microdetail just aces the paradise


Classical Lacking in some of the more bombastic recordings. Superb
with cello, and violin work. Disappoints when "oommpph" needed


I tried to replicate similar listening session through the review so I did the following

1. My main reference system was allowed to "warm up" 5 minutes before listening began.
2. Each record played was cleaned on my Mk2 Moth RCM. Each side was cleaned with the same record cleaning fluid and each sided recieved a 60 second clean.
3. New vinyl was used with each record recieving less than 5-10 plays per side.
4. I made sure my reclining chair was in the same poisition during each listen.
5. New records where chosen to try and limit bias and eliminate contradictory opinions from my first review.
6. Records where chosen where I have an intimate knowledge of the recording and where it would be easy for me to spot difference in sonic presentation.
7. A PS Audio P10 mains regeneration system was used throughout all listening allowing a very clean power supply of 242V with <0.1% THD.


First Impressions
-----------------

Well I had new transformers replaced in the paradise and I instantly noticed next to no noise and the very slight hum I hear is completely lost when
playing vinyl. I had quite a noticable hum before the latest batch of upgrades and this spoiled the listening experience but now I'm much happier and pleased
with the latest PSU's.

**********************
*SUGDEN + Ortofon SUT*
**********************

Thrash Metal
------------
I choose Overkill - White Devil Armoury (2014 1st Pressing). I have been a big fan of this band for decades and these guys have stuck to their roots. I selected this album test assess how good the Sugden + SUT setup could handle the excesses of thrash metal drumming where some drummers can go as high as 1200BPM, yeah thats right 1200BPM! I wasn't interested in vocals, power double bass solo's, or extravagent guitar solo's. The Sugden+SUT setup was a class act in this exercise and it showed just how agile it was. It easily conveyed the drums of Ron Lipnicki I was presented with a very fast, precise, presentation that never missed a beat.


Blues Rock
----------
I normally use Janice Joplin to assess the intimacy of female vocals usually using Mercedes Benz as my reference track. This time I decided I wanted something a little different and I decided to use Summertime from the Cheap Thrills album, this pressing was the 2011 repressing. The track opens with some extremely delicate gutar solo, bass, gently burbling away in the background. Janis's vocals appears strained and husky slightly off left in the soundstage. The recording is not as intimate as Mercedes benz but the quality of the bass and drums centralised in the phonostage and the fuzz guitar to the left of the soundstage are excellently captured. Plenty of seperation bewteen instruments and the SUG+SUT combo present a wide, clean, soundstage. Excellent stuff. The track gets quite complex midway through with a cocophony of instruments and then a sudden change in time signature. Lesser kit have massacred this bit of the track but not the SUG+SUT combo. I'm impressed.

Power Vocals
------------
A new test for the SUG+SUT combo. This time I wanted to assess male power vocals. There are only really two people that I rate in this genre, both are British and both are in Heavy Metal bands. Bruce Dickinson in Iron Maiden and Rob Halford from Judas Priest. Dickinson possesses a wide vocal range which he uses to produce a quasi-operatic tenor presentation. Dickinson is one of the pioneers of the operatic vocal style later to be adopted by power metal vocalists. Rob Halford on the other hand is considered one of the most consistently powerful singers in rock possessing a wide vocal range, and is particularly known for his trademark high-pitched, operatic, soaring screams. I kicked off with Halford. I decided to listen to the Sad Wings of Destiny Album (2014 repress). The song Ripper shows all of Halford's trademark traits. Ths SUG/SUT captured Halford excellently and portrayed a man wailing like a banshee. You really get the impression on this recording that Halford couldn't sing any higher. Halford sat slap bang in the middle of the soundstage, standing in front of me with his mic. The song starts quite tame and builds as Halford describes his activities as Jack the Ripper, halfway through Halford reminds you never to turn your back on the ripper in a high operatic power chord. Again Excellent. The SUG+SUT is again bloody fantastic at getting Halford in the soundstage. Now switching to Dickinson, blimey, where do we start? I really had to think long and hard about this one, my normal foyle is either Powerslave or Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner. Today I decided upon the Flight of Icarus from Piece of Mindthis is 3'46 probably the shortest Maiden track ever!!?? A tale about Icarus flying near the sun. Dickinson flings is operatic power vocals around again the SUG+SUTcombo plonked him centre stage. TBH is track does meander for a while but the last 30 seconds really show what Dickinson can do and I believe this has to be the best recorded power vocal this bloke has ever done. Long, powerful, lung screeching stuff. This really is a man that has deciced he is going to do his best Ian Gillan/Pavarotti's power vocal. And I think he pulls it off. You have to listen to it to understand what I'm waffling on about.


Jazz
----
I listened to the Linn Records recording of Martin Williams "Dont Fret" from 1990. The SUG+SUT combo produced a laid back presentation of Martin Williams fret work on this recording. Each note could be clearly heard and seperated from the other instruments on all the tracks of this recording. His guitar was crystal clear and the other musicians could be easily placed and seperated in the soundstage. Once again the main artist was slap bang in the centre of the recording with other artists slightly recessed back in the soundstage so you got the feeling of Martin Williams sitting slightly forward of the other artists in this recording. Soundstage wasn't very wide and sat within the perimeter of my two speakers. The second piece of Jazz I tested was John Coltranes "Stardust" from 1963. This recording portrayed Coltrane just left of centre. I could discern his phrasing of each note as he played. Again the SUG+SUT did that thing of producing large spaces between the musicians with Coltrane slightly left of centre, paino central, double bass off right and drums centre stage. Jimmy Cobb's brush work on the drums was subtle and delicate whilst the timbre and note structure could easily be heard and followed over the shimmering cymbals of the drums. This has to be one of the best Coltrane recordings I have heard on my big ATC's, they did an extremely good impression of a pair of Horn loaded speakers!

Prog
----
Yep, my old favourites Dream Theater had the honour of doing Prog on the SUG+SUT combo. I decided to choose the 13m52s monster that is "The Glass Prison" from the 6 Degrees of Inner Turbulance album. The track opens to the chiming of a bell, this impressed me as I could easily follow the decay as the chime faded into the ether. Mike Pourtnoy is famous for his massive double bass drum onslaughts, this track was no different and it really hammered home, he was placed rock solid central soundstage, a massive battering ram for what was about the follow. Jon Petrucci's guitar work was as intricate, clinical, forensic and technical as ever. Once again I could easily follow and pick out ever note that he fired out across the soundstage. I was a little sad to hear that John Myungs bass got lost in the mix. Instruments could be easily followed despite the sheer complexity of this piece (and cerebral exertion) of music. Additionally, despite the frenetic changes to time signatures the SUG&SUT combo could not be wrong footed.


STAY TUNED FOR PT2 WHEN THE PARADISE GET PLONKED INTO MY REFERENCE SYSTEM! :D

[sq225917]

Andy, you should probably swap the cartridge loading resistors over to something more suitable for the SPU. Something in the 5-10 ohm range. I've got nothing that low and yours is currently set for 121ohm. It makes a big difference.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Andy, you should probably swap the cartridge loading resistors over to something more suitable for the SPU. Something in the 5-10 ohm range. I've got nothing that low and yours is currently set for 121ohm. It makes a big difference.

Thanks for the heads up, all this was done on the technics system. So i think you set the paradise up for the cadenza black.

[YNWaN]

I doubt it as the recommended load impedance for the Cadenza Black is - >10 Ohm - some distance from 121 Ohm...

[Wakefield Turntables]

Right so I should make a quick call to maplins and get some 5-10oh, resistors, correct?

[sq225917]

Maplins, jesus no.

Get a few of these in 5, 10, 15, 25, 50 ohm http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/takman_resistors_metal.html and then we you decide which value you like best, replace them with the same value in these http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/car_resistors.html

[Wakefield Turntables]

Right will get on the blower tomorrow! Thanks for the heads up.

[Audio Advent]

I'm interested in the Paradise Phono stage - on the lookout for people's secondhand ones. Did you ever finish making the comparison?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Errr...no is the honest answer it's sat in my Valve system and never come out. I have a young daughter now and listening time is limited so the comparison will not happen any time soon.

[Audio Advent]

oh... boo! Maybe just a few words then? You must have listened to it a lot since to get a general idea of what the mono power supply adds to the party. Shame that confusion about the cartridge loading stopped you in your tracks!

"A good plan violently executed now is better than a perfect plan executed next week - General Patton" comes to mind.

[Wakefield Turntables]

oh... boo! Maybe just a few words then? You must have listened to it a lot since to get a general idea of what the mono power supply adds to the party. Shame that confusion about the cartridge loading stopped you in your tracks!
.

Sorry! My SPU is now perfectly matched thanks. I may be getting some new monoblocks so things may change again. 8-)

[Wakefield Turntables]

More upgrades on the way :eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

OMG! :eek: This has been upgraded again and once again Simon has come up with the goods. This phonostage now sounds so transparent and musical on the valve system its a marked improvement over the first version I heard. Simon's optimised it for the Cadenza black so I guess I'm just gonna have to listen all day tomorrow on my reference system. Shehit life is hard ;)

[Bksabath]

I have a R2 paradise for quite same years

One thing I don't see in your review is any comment about the Paradise speed
Second thing I think that a loot can be done to improve on the way it sounds

There are different values for the RIAA components for example

What do you have on yours?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I have a R2 paradise for quite same years

One thing I don't see in your review is any comment about the Paradise speed
Second thing I think that a loot can be done to improve on the way it sounds

There are different values for the RIAA components for example

What do you have on yours?

What do you mean about speed? Have you heard any dream theater?? If you want speed and complexity I strongly recommend you have a listen.

The paradise has been updated several times since this thread and is due to go in again at some point this year for some more tweeks. I have no idea what Simon put's in there as I trust his ears.

[Bksabath]

What do you mean about speed? .

I mean the speed ?Slew rate? of the Paradise
I noticed that I can hear the T a flute make just before the musician finger completely close the holes for the next note.

Dream Theater Tel me more ....

[sq225917]

Hello Sandro.

I have a few Paradise mods that you might be interested in. Improvements to the shunt and isolation for the incoming psu. If I remember correctly you have extra caps local to the psu input on your main boards already. There's also two better choices for the servo opamp. Check out my Flickr, same user name as on here.


I should mention that Sandro was the first person I knew with a Paradise, he's to blame for the 22 I've built since then.

[Bksabath]

Hi Simon
Long time ...

I am going to ceck those mods but can't find you on Flickr ????

But I was thinking about a second order servo (2 cascaded op amps) so not to interfere whit the low frequency response

Any news about the super paradise that was mentioned on DIYA tread ?

Another thing I will try is to supply the Paradise whit the ZenMod Shunty

Any one whit a clue about designing a better servo here ?

[sq225917]

I've looked at the output on my scope while measuring the servo, with a signal generator, and I really can't see it affecting the output. I can't see any effect on the rails to the main stages that track the servos action either. But then the servo does next to nothing in mine due to high matching of input stage and thermally isolating the input transistors.

I do have a spare set of psu shunt boards. So I might quad rail each channel's psu at some point.

[Bksabath]

Hi Simon
What Hfe you use for the transistors?
I just purchased 1000 of each Fairchild on tape of BC337-40 and BC327-40
I used the DCA 75 PRO (what a fantastic piece of kit BTW) to measure a few, it look like the 337 range at 420 to 490 and the 327 are around the 350 to 390 so the lot is pretty useless....:doh:

[337alant]

Big thanks to Si for servicing and upgrading my Paradise Phono stage, got the boards back last week, I made a change to my power supply boards from CRCLC to CLCRC, and have installed them back in their case.
Left them switched on for 48 hrs then tweaked the regs on the paradise boards to 18.2VDC
With a signal gen set at 1K -60 dB checked the output on a scope and have perfectly matched sine wave of 1K 0.755V so the gain is just under 60dB
Had to dig out my Pioneer turntable as I haven't listened to Vinyl for more than 9 months, anyway after listening to a few hours of the 20 records I still own, Herby Hancock the river sounded superb and better then before.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51778021755_4e6c816e49_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mTrTX2)IMG_4582 (https://flic.kr/p/2mTrTX2) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51777139026_263018de58_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mTnnxy)IMG_4584 (https://flic.kr/p/2mTnnxy) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51777145781_25a473e65f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mTnpy2)IMG_4534 (https://flic.kr/p/2mTnpy2) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr
Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

I'd forgotten about this thread!

[DiveDeepDog]

Bet you’ve not forgotten Paradise, still the best …:cool:

[337alant]

Bet you’ve not forgotten Paradise, still the best …:cool:
Absolutely agree Mark and mine is sounding better than ever now :eyebrows:

Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

My Paradise is now 8 years old! It's been through many upgrades and changes and is a different beast to the one I started with.

[337alant]

Yeah I built mine in July 2013 and I have only modded the power supply since then.
Its been an excellent phono stage but was starting to sound off when warmed up so I suspected there was some duff caps in there, I was so disappointed in my Vinyl system that I sold all my records except for 20 that I really liked:eek:
Anyway I decided that I needed to service the Paradise and wanted to fit the Calvins at the same time, I didn't really have time to do it myself as I was caring for my wife and working full time, I also did not have the right caps to do it myself so I asked Simon if he could look at it for me, well he did and he has done an excellent job, "as expected", and its sounding superb now.
Alan

[Floyddroid]

What made you get rid of your records Alan? Good to see you are getting back into vinyl. Must have a meet up soon.

[337alant]

Hi Steve
Snap Crackle & Pop and the variability of quality of Vinyl, I had 3 copies of everything I liked ? and every time I sat down to listen I would be thinking Mmm that doesn't sound quite right, need to clean that record, need to clean the stylus need to check the tracking, plus they take up a lot of space.
I'm not getting back into Vinyl but it will be available in case I feel the need.

Alan

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yeah I built mine in July 2013 and I have only modded the power supply since then.
Its been an excellent phono stage but was starting to sound off when warmed up so I suspected there was some duff caps in there, I was so disappointed in my Vinyl system that I sold all my records except for 20 that I really liked:eek:
Anyway I decided that I needed to service the Paradise and wanted to fit the Calvins at the same time, I didn't really have time to do it myself as I was caring for my wife and working full time, I also did not have the right caps to do it myself so I asked Simon if he could look at it for me, well he did and he has done an excellent job, "as expected", and its sounding superb now.
Alan


Sounds like things have been tough, Alan. Glad to hear your Paradise is cutting the sonic mustard. Simon always provides an excellent service. He's a fantastic source. I've been thinking about getting into R2R but it's such a diverse subject and I honestly would not know where to start! I always fancied a Revox b77 mk2 but setting the thing up and all that goes with it would be a real bugger. :eek:

[Barry]

.... I was so disappointed in my Vinyl system that I sold all my records except for 20 that I really liked . :eek:



I would be greatly interested to know what the titles of the 20 records are. :)

[Mickyricky]

19 to go as Alan quoted River by Herbie Hancock 👍😀

[Barry]

19 to go as Alan quoted River by Herbie Hancock ����

Cheers. :)

[337alant]

If it pleases you, but remember that we all like different things and that these choices were just on the spare of the moment before I sold them all I picked out approx. 20 albums that I would normally use when evaluating my Vinyl system after any changes.
Mmmm looks like I picked out more than 20:D:scratch:

1. Herbie Hancock - The River (2 Discs) (Superb)
2. Womack/Womack - Love Wars (Signed Copy)
3. Eric Clapton - unplugged
4. Peter Gabriel - 1 33 half speed master
5. Peter Gabriel - 3 33 Half speed master
6. Peter Gabriel - 4 45 Half speed master
7. Fleetwood Mac - 50 Years box set (unopened Gift)
8. Earl Klugh - Finger Paintings (Original Master)
9. Earl Klugh - Finger paintings A1 / B1 copy (Superb)
10. Gregory Porter - Liquid Spirit ( Blue Note) ( Signed copy)
11. Gregory Porter - Be Good
12. Gregory Porter - Holding on
13. Pink Floyd - Dark side of the moon ( original Master copy)
14. Pink Floyd - Division Bell
15. Hugh Masecela - Hope, 2 disc 45 rpm( Superb)
16. Ray Stinnett - A Fire Somewhere ( superb) a gift from a good friend
17. Coleman Hawkins - The Genius of ( world Record club superb recording)
18. Hifi News Alignment Test LP
19. Dave Gilmore - Live at Pompeii box set
20. Miles Davis - A kind of Blue
21. Fleetwood Mac Box set (Unopened)
22. Rodriguez - Searching for the Sugar man
23. Vanessa Fernandes - Use Me 2x 45 rpm
24. Fleetwood Mac Rumours - 2 x 45rpm
25. Larry Carlton - Alone but not alone
26. Rickie Lee Jones - same title Mofi OMR
27 Pink Floyd - Wish You were here
28 Eminem - Infinite (belongs to one of my son's)
29. Dire Straits - The studio albums Box set 6 discs

Thought I had also kept The Cars original master recording and a Ben Howard unopened EP ? and John Coltrane albums, must have let them go ?

Alan

[Barry]

Yes, one of my favourite LPs is the "Hi Fi News Alignment Test Disc". ;)

Thanks for the list.

[337alant]

Few other things I didn't let go
Micro Sieki MA505 alignment Protractor, Audio Technica Vibrating carbon fibre stylus cleaner, Ortofon Cartridge scales

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51788772819_90fe35e65e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2mUoZSc)IMG_4574 (https://flic.kr/p/2mUoZSc) by Alan Towell (https://www.flickr.com/photos/69508926@N05/), on Flickr

Alan

[walpurgis]

Audio Technica Vibrating carbon fibre stylus cleaner

I have one. At the back of my mind, there's this sneaking feeling that if anything could dislodge a shanked diamond tip, this might be it.

[337alant]

I have one. At the back of my mind, there's this sneaking feeling that if anything could dislodge a shanked diamond tip, this might be it.

That's a good point Geoff, have to say that I have used them for the last 30 years and that has never happened to me though.

Alan

[walpurgis]

That's a good point Geoff, have to say that I have used them for the last 30 years and that has never happened to me though.

Alan

I have a collection of ADC cartridges, each of which features a shanked tip and I won't try the AT cleaner on them, just in case.

[Barry]

I have a Goldring vibrating carbon fibre stylus cleaner. I don't use it much as I always clean the stylus with a Cecil Watts velvet 'brush', before and after each LP side.

But having said that I have a couple of dozen cartridges, and none of them have been damaged by the electronic cleaner.

https://www.vinylengine.com/images/model/goldring_electronic_stylus_cleaner.jpg