The Paradise Phonostage

[Wakefield Turntables]

It is my intention to write an in depth review on this Phonostage. I'm currently loaning a three box version from Simon who also lives on this forum whilst he builds my 4 box version. Tonight is the first night where I have had chance to listen and all I can say is that it's throwing up a few interesting results. Full review will probably take a week or so, please be patient. I'm sure Simon and Mark who also own versions of the Paradise phonostage will chip in and add their own observations (I hope so)! Stay tuned. :eyebrows:

[YNWaN]

As andrew says, I have a four box build of this phonostage:

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/Hi-Fi/10_zps78eb83df.jpg

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h90/markemark_2006/Hi-Fi/A516B038-CDB8-483C-A84B-E50D6F6BACC4_zpsasz64cfa.jpg

An elaborate moving coil only stage it uses an unusual transconductance circuit with zero negative feedback, instead relying on close component matching.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I don't intend having IEC's in mine i've plumped for some well screened copper cabling, I got talked out of the usual 4-5mm shielded pure silver solid core that I use. So already we have differences:eyebrows:

[Wakefield Turntables]

OK am off to bed now, yep its early but I want a full day in Paradise tomorrow!

[YNWaN]

Blimey, too early to go to bed for me yet!

Si told me you wanted the mains cable to be hard wired - no harm in that - it's actually easier than fitting an IEC socket. I have to say that I've not found IEC sockets to be a limiting factor though and the ability to easily disconnect the cable is important to me, plus the IEC socket can house the on/off switch and contain the fuse (which mine do). I'm not against 'purist' build though - I used silver plated, Teflon insulated, OFC coaxial hookup cable internally, 50Ohm BNC input connectors and Eichmann output RCA's, circuit boards are mechanically isolated etc.

[Ali Tait]

Is there a demo unit that can be sent out?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I used silver plated, Teflon insulated, OFC coaxial hookup cable internally, 50Ohm BNC input connectors and Eichmann output RCA's, circuit boards are mechanically isolated etc.

I suppose I could still be coaxed into silver, this may explain why Si's sounds a little laid back. But Eichman output RCA's sound pretty cool and the circuit board been mechanically isolated also sounds quite an easy job to do. I think Si gets around this with sitting the units on sorbothane focal pods which extrinsically dampen?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Is there a demo unit that can be sent out?

No this is a group build project from DIYAUDIO.COM not a commercial product.

[chris@panteg]

So it's dual mono with dual psu's and built into naim cases, does the circuitry share a similar topology and design to naim phono stages ?

[YNWaN]

It doesn't have to be in Naim cases, but both Si's and mine are for two very good reasons; 1/ the circuit happens to fit very nicely, 2/ our friend Andrew (AKA flatpopely) happens to manufacture and sell them.

The circuit has absolutely nothing to do with anything Naim have ever done.
______________________

Andrew, I don't think the silver internal hookup cable makes any difference (well, very tiny), I only used it because I needed some coax hookup cable and it wasn't expensive (you only need 0.5 metre for the whole build) - much more likely is the value of the cartridge loading - which does make a difference. 'Laid back' is definitely not how I would describe my Paradise!

[chris@panteg]

Ah I see thanks, looks impressive !

[sq225917]

The circuit is a class A, zero negative feedback, transimpedance MC amp. It actually runs at about 82db of gain but the RIAA topology is such that this is 'burnt off' in the RIAA correction. The indicated external PSU is a rather large dual mono, bipolar set-up with current chokes and common mode filters in the pre-reg. The psu proper on the gain boards is a bipolar, class A shunt reg based on one of Salas's designs.

Andy, try some resistors around around 250 ohm (220-280). It'll tame the treble peak you are hearing as a lack of bass definition.

[pure sound]

The circuit is a class A, zero negative feedback, transimpedance MC amp. It actually runs at about 82db of gain but the RIAA topology is such that this is 'burnt off' in the RIAA correction. The indicated external PSU is a rather large dual mono, bipolar set-up with current chokes and common mode filters in the pre-reg. The psu proper on the gain boards is a bipolar, class A shunt reg based on one of Salas's designs.



Out of interest, can I take it that the equalisation is achieved passively? If so how many dB does the filter 'burn'?

Really looking forward to hearing one of these at some point. Is there likely to be one at Scalford?

[YNWaN]

One may be at Scalford as there are a few out there now (unlikely to be mine though).

[pure sound]

One may be at Scalford as there are a few out there now (unlikely to be mine though).

You need to build a second 'portable' turntable Mark!

[YNWaN]

To be honest Guy, whilst that is an issue it isn't the key one. The truth is that the prospect of showing at Scalford just doesn't excite me - I would rather go round it. There would also be the whole politics of the Wam to navigate, you know the whole 'we're all amateur enthusiasts here....erm, except for the ones that aren't'.

[pure sound]

To be honest Guy, whilst that is an issue it isn't the key one. The truth is that the prospect of showing at Scalford just doesn't excite me - I would rather go round it. There would also be the whole politics of the Wam to navigate, you know the whole 'we're all amateur enthusiasts here....erm, except for the ones that aren't'.

Agreed. It's far more fun to be at, have a few beers & look around than to be stuck in a room for the day.

[YNWaN]

Precisely :). If you did want to hear mine you are always welcome Guy - hardly round the corner though.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Second day of reviewing the Paradise and I'm finding myself respecting this device more and more. I've just been comparing the intimacy of male and female vocals. Tonight I'm looking at it's ability of reproducing treble so I have a night of Van Halen, Deep Purple, Steve Vai and a few others.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Andy, try some resistors around around 250 ohm (220-280). It'll tame the treble peak you are hearing as a lack of bass definition.

Thanks, will do. I don't think I'm hearing any treble peak. I would actually say that guitars are sounding a little "blunted" not as raw as they should be. I've now heard this occur on several tracks from something as benign as the solo in Forgotton Sons (Marillion - Script for a Jesters Tear), to Eruption (Van Halen - Van Halen). The Paradise seems
to have a softer presentation when rendering class rock guitar solo's when compared to my Sugden+SUT combo.

[Macca]

Thanks, will do. I don't think I'm hearing any treble peak. I would actually say that guitars are sounding a little "blunted" not as raw as they should be. .

But is it a masking of the signal or is it lower distortion in the signal enabling you to hear the guitars as they were recorded? Big question, I know.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I dont know is the honest answer. I've listened to these records hundreds of times and possibly for thousands of hours I've never heard them sound like this before. I'm not sure what you mean by "is it a masking of the signal", you'll have to expand on that one. It could simply be an incorrect cartridge load. Anyway I shall be reporting my findings in a few days.

[Macca]

I mean is it just rounding things off a bit. There is 'rawness' from distortion in the signal and 'rawness' that is actually on the recording. It isn't that easy to differentiate between them and I've heard more than one set up that had a bit of added distort that made electric guitar sound 'raunchy' but that distort showed up on other material too, where it definitely shouldn't be.

[YNWaN]

Yep, there is also ringing which many confuse as extension - quantity is not quality...

At this minute I am listening to the Keaton Henson album 'Dare' and this is quite simply the best audio rproduction of a recording I have ever heard!

[YNWaN]

Honestly, if guitars sound 'blunted' there is an issue!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Honestly, if guitars sound 'blunted' there is an issue!

I've got Leo Kottke on at this minute in time listening 6 & 12 string guitars (Quiex SV-P 200g version) and it has never sounded better, bliss. :eek:


I mean is it just rounding things off a bit. There is 'rawness' from distortion in the signal and 'rawness' that is actually on the recording. It isn't that easy to differentiate between them and I've heard more than one set up that had a bit of added distort that made electric guitar sound 'raunchy' but that distort showed up on other material too, where it definitely shouldn't be.

Ahh I see what you mean, I suppose it could be phonostage rounding thing off but I've had three completely different setups over the years with various phonostages which have never given distortion to the recording. The problem itself is very minor but was something of a surprise. The Paradise is an extremely good phonostage and TBH I was looking for something that was going to sit with my Garrard 301 in the valve setup mainly on Jazz/Accoustic/Classical music duties and not a phonostage for intricate progressive metal and heavy metal, prog rock etc. The Paradise is not going anywhere it will form an integral part of my listening room. Now that's praise enough considering I've tried and rejected phonostages costing many thousands of pounds more. :eyebrows:

[Macca]

Andy

A bit off topic I know but do you have both systems set up in the same room?

[Wakefield Turntables]

Yep.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tonight Genre's under the Paradise microscope are Jazz and Accoustic guitar.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Tomorrow night we move onto Classical. :eek:

[Barry]

I've got Leo Kottke on at this minute in time listening 6 & 12 string guitars (Quiex SV-P 200g version) and it has never sounded better, bliss. :eek:
I have this on Sonnet and often use it as a test record.



Ahh I see what you mean, I suppose it could be phonostage rounding thing off but I've had three completely different setups over the years with various phonostages which have never given distortion to the recording. The problem itself is very minor but was something of a surprise. The Paradise is an extremely good phonostage and TBH I was looking for something that was going to sit with my Garrard 301 in the valve setup mainly on Jazz/Accoustic/Classical music duties and not a phonostage for intricate progressive metal and heavy metal, prog rock etc. The Paradise is not going anywhere it will form an integral part of my listening room. Now that's praise enough considering I've tried and rejected phonostages costing many thousands of pounds more. :eyebrows:
A good phonostage is a good phonostage, regardless of the signal fed to it, i.e. the genre of music shouldn't matter.

Looking forward to reading your review! :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Thanks, hope you like it. :christmas:

[Floyddroid]

So, How much would one of these set you back?
It is my intention to write an in depth review on this Phonostage. I'm currently loaning a three box version from Simon who also lives on this forum whilst he builds my 4 box version. Tonight is the first night where I have had chance to listen and all I can say is that it's throwing up a few interesting results. Full review will probably take a week or so, please be patient. I'm sure Simon and Mark who also own versions of the Paradise phonostage will chip in and add their own observations (I hope so)! Stay tuned. :eyebrows:

[YNWaN]

It depends - it depends how much you intend to do yourself, what cases you intend to use, if you intend to build a different power supply, if you choose to use any boutique components etc.

[Wakefield Turntables]

At some point in the new year I will be getting the cartridge loading optimised on the Paradise and then i shall sit down and do another set of listening sessions, hopefully updating the notes I made.

[Wakefield Turntables]

4 box version coming soon, I will be updating this thread over next few weeks.

[337alant]

So, How much would one of these set you back?

Steve its not as simple as that as this is a DIY build from circuit boards from the DIY audio thread and they dont come up for sale very often.
I let you have a listen to mine when I finish it

Alan