valve phono stage into SS amp

[09mike69]

will a valve phono pre amp into a solid state amp give me that tube sound which is so admired or do i need to get a tube amp? thanks, mike.

[chelsea]

What speakers?

[The Grand Wazoo]

More importantly, what amps?

[09mike69]

speakers are wharfedale dovedale III the amp is rotel ra 610, thanks, mike.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi Mike,
Just to try to understand what it is exactly that you're thinking of doing, are you proposing to split the power amp section of the Rotel off and use that with a valve preamp? If so, which one?
Or are you up for a complete change away from the Rotel?

[09mike69]

Hi Mike,
Just to try to understand what it is exactly that you're thinking of doing, are you proposing to split the power amp section of the Rotel off and use that with a valve preamp? If so, which one?
Or are you up for a complete change away from the Rotel?
no, just thinking of maybe getting a tube phono stage pre amp and was asking if it makes any real difference to the sound, in a good way that is, or is it not really worth it. i know its quite a subjective question but if anyone has any knowledge regarding tube phono pre's compared to built-in SS phono pre amps and their different sound qualities, if any. thanks, mike.

[walpurgis]

If you want a touch of the 'valve sound' out of your ancient but rather nice Rotel RA-610 (it's a very good match for the Dovedales by the way), buy a Musical Fidelity X-10D valve buffer line stage off eBay, take out the pre/power links on the back of the Rotel and connect the X-10D between them (the right way round of course). If you don't know the X-10D, there's loads of info on the net. I've got one and in certain applications (such as yours) it certainly does add a bit of 'valveyness' (think I may have just invented a word there)! That way you can keep using your quite decent inbuilt phono stage and benefit from added 'valveyness' on all inputs!! :)

[The Grand Wazoo]

I've had great success pairing a valve preamp (with phono stage) into transistor power amps and have done so for many years. But I also use a valve power amp with that pre and also a couple of solid state phono stages into it's line inputs - I can do all sorts of combinations.
The trouble is, a good amp shouldn't really sound like a valve or solid state device - it should just sound good! So that term 'valve-like' might imply to some that a device is not really all that good!

[walpurgis]

The trouble is, a good amp shouldn't really sound like a valve or solid state device - it should just sound good!

I know what you mean Chris, but seventies Japanese amps can be a bit 'matter of fact' in their presentation. Much as I like the RA-610 and the following RA-611, I reckon bunging an X-10D into the mix will do no harm and will add a bit of that valve warmth and romance to the sound. I use an X-10D myself from time to time and in the right situation (like this) they work.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Yep, well if rosiness is what's required, then it will probably do the job - it'd probably slot between the pre/power sections if those links are removed (and if I'm thinking about the right Rotel amp). A modern phono stage might be a bit more informative in terms of getting music off a disc, though.

EDIT: Just noticed Geoff confirmed that the amp has pre/power split!

[09mike69]

If you want a touch of the 'valve sound' out of your ancient but rather nice Rotel RA-610 (it's a very good match for the Dovedales by the way), buy a Musical Fidelity X-10D valve buffer line stage off eBay, take out the pre/power links on the back of the Rotel and connect the X-10D between them (the right way round of course). If you don't know the X-10D, there's loads of info on the net. I've got one and in certain applications (such as yours) it certainly does add a bit of 'valveyness' (think I may have just invented a word there)! That way you can keep using your quite decent inbuilt phono stage and benefit from added 'valveyness' on all inputs!! :)
ancient!:lol: prefer the term 'vintage', but thats what im looking for,hence the valve application, something that might enhance the vinyl on my,,, erm, somewhat antiquated system. looking for something cheap, any experience with yaquin phono pre's?. thanks, mike.

[walpurgis]

There's nothing wrong with the 610 and Dovedale combination, they give a good sound. The 610 has a decent phono stage, it was designed at a time when vinyl was taken very seriously and you'd spend a fair bit of money getting a valve stage that betters it.

[PaulStewart]

If you want a touch of the 'valve sound' out of your ancient but rather nice Rotel RA-610 (it's a very good match for the Dovedales by the way), buy a Musical Fidelity X-10D valve buffer line stage off eBay, take out the pre/power links on the back of the Rotel and connect the X-10D between them (the right way round of course). If you don't know the X-10D, there's loads of info on the net. I've got one and in certain applications (such as yours) it certainly does add a bit of 'valveyness' (think I may have just invented a word there)! That way you can keep using your quite decent inbuilt phono stage and benefit from added 'valveyness' on all inputs!! :)

Hi Mike

With the proviso that you revalve the it with some quality valves and use decent cables, I would give the X-10D a go. The Rotel has a nice phono input and the speakers are cool, so you'd have to spend a lot to get a better sound with an external valve phonostage

Cheers

Paul

[09mike69]

thanks for all the input. i havent heard any valve amps so i really have nothing to compare it with, its just i've read a lot of comments and reviews and nearly all favour the valve amp sound over SS, im basically trying to get a taste of valve amps over SS, to see if its for me, but dont want to spend too much. thanks again, mike.

[Arkless Electronics]

I've had great success pairing a valve preamp (with phono stage) into transistor power amps and have done so for many years. But I also use a valve power amp with that pre and also a couple of solid state phono stages into it's line inputs - I can do all sorts of combinations.
The trouble is, a good amp shouldn't really sound like a valve or solid state device - it should just sound good! So that term 'valve-like' might imply to some that a device is not really all that good!

Indeed!

[walpurgis]

Shame you're not nearer, would have been happy to demo the X-10D on your system. Maybe there's an AOS member near you who's got one and could help out. I'm sure it would be worth hearing.

[Oldpinkman]

thanks for all the input. i havent heard any valve amps so i really have nothing to compare it with, its just i've read a lot of comments and reviews and nearly all favour the valve amp sound over SS, im basically trying to get a taste of valve amps over SS, to see if its for me, but dont want to spend too much. thanks again, mike.

As others have pointed out, there isn't, or shouldn't be a "valve sound". That said, there probably is, and we all know what we mean about it. (Or perhaps that should be a "not horrid solid state sound" - way back when, in the 70's and 80's there were some not very nice sounding SS amps produced and I think that's where this "valve sound" thing kicked off). I asked a designer I know and he put it down to circuit topology. The limitations a valve imposes on the possibilities for design mean that valve amps tend to have a "flavour" of circuit design. But I am certainly in the camp that doesn't think a valve necessarily makes anything better, for all I have heard some valve designs I have liked very much. I have heard some solid state designs I liked even more:)

Regarding your query - why not ask Alan (Firebottle) if you can try his valve phono stage? I believe he sells it for not much over £200. All he asks is that you pay the postage on to whoever is next on the list to try it. I have tried it into a solid state preamp and it was very nice, and definitely works well without issues. And you can try before you buy. Without having carried out exhaustive market research into every available offering, you could knock me down with a feather if you hear a significantly better valve phono stage for anywhere near the money. Give it a go :cool:

[Floyddroid]

Yes, i think it does work in a nutshell. I use an Eastern Electric Minimax into an Exposure pre and power combo and it adds a little body to the sound.