generally.. why are most Audiophiles Prog "nuts"......

[Gmanuk101]

after being an audiophile for a few years now... I've come to think (and I am saying this in general terms as I know not everyone is) that the majority of this breed are Prog Rock fans first and foremost.

Is their something special about this?
Why is this so?

Just a question for a friday really, like me, not really serious about this subject... I don't have the money to be really serious..lol (joke)

Happy friday to those who work, for those who are retired then.... pah I hate you.. ;)

[mr sneff]

I've no idea whether that's true or not. I like some prog; King Crimson, Yes, Univers Zero, Magma, Art Bears, but I also enjoy classical (from early music right through to contemporary) folk, ambient, some new age a bit of jazz, world music, even country. In fact it was probably when I got more into classical music that I began to seriously think about improving the quality of my system.

[Marco]

Aside from Andre (who in reality is quite a young chap, although 'old at heart', lol), I suspect it's an age group thing.

Given the results of the 'How old are you?' thread in Abstract Chat, where it was revealed that the majority of folk here are in their mid fifties, and I suspect it would be the same on other audio forums, I think that goes some way to explaining the love of classic rock and prog.

I guess we need more '80s kids' here (like me) to dilute that trend!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Stratmangler]

I guess we need more '80s kids' here (like me) to dilute that trend!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

You?
Whippersnapper?
:rfl:
You're not that far behind the majority :D

[Wakefield Turntables]

I love prog and I'm youngish at 40. So for me its all about discovering the music that was in around in the early 70's, when I was born.

[Marco]

You?
Whippersnapper?
:rfl:
You're not that far behind the majority :D

Daftee - I'm talking about my tastes in music! Although, I love rock (and some prog), essentially, musically, I'm a 80s child :)

Besides, there's still a bit of a difference between being 48, and in your mid fifites - those 7 years or so, are rather crucial at that age!! :ner:

Marco.

[Joe]

I'm 59 and hate almost all prog.

[Gmanuk101]

I'm 59 and hate almost all prog.



I'm with you and I'm 40..... in my head I'm 21 and can still get it up....... when up I refer to me getting out of a chair without the "groan" noise

[walpurgis]

'Prog' is a label that is rather liberally splashed around. Zappa and King Crimson have been mentioned, I don't regard these as prog. They are Jazz rock and Psychedelic (to an extent) rock respectively in my view. The term rock spans an awful lot of styles. 'Prog', to me suggests Van Hallen and Guns'n'roses for instance.

As has been suggested it is partly a generational thing, but it could just be that much of rock is just damn well played and cleverly conceived compared to most modern dross.

[julesd68]

'Prog', to me suggests Van Hallen and Guns'n'roses for instance

Now I would classify Van Halen and G'nR as 'hard rock' bands myself ...

[MikeMusic]

I love some Prog. however some of it is cobblers, just an excuse for diddling around or getting stoned and making noises

Similar to Punk, some of it wonderful some of it just en excuse to diddle around or get stoned and make a load of noise

and likely the same for all or most other forms of music

[Barry]

Daftee - I'm talking about my tastes in music! Although, I love rock (and some prog), essentially, musically, I'm a 80s child :)

Besides, there's still a bit of a difference between being 48, and in your mid fifites - those 7 years or so, are rather crucial at that age!! :ner:

Marco.

You should have signed off with something like "Marco, aged 48 1/2". :ner:

[Marco]

I can see Andre getting his chompers stuck into this one - and giving some of you a roasting! :eyebrows: :eek:

Marco.

[Marco]

You should have signed off with something like "Marco, aged 48 1/2". :ner:

Good one, Barry - should've thought of that! :D

Marco.

[Gmanuk101]

Now I would classify Van Halen and G'nR as 'hard rock' bands myself ...



yep exactly... :)

prog to me is Rick Wakeman in all his wizard suits fannynig about on 20 keyboards with one keyboard on "auto chord" for 45mins at a time whilst everyone in the audience is sitting down listening and chin stroking..... burn the lot of em ;) ;)

disclaimer: no prog fans were hurt in the making of this thread.

[keiths]

I can see Andre getting his chompers stuck into this one - and giving some of you a roasting! :eyebrows: :eek:

Marco.

Indeed. In fact, I think I can hear a low-pitched rumbling sound getting 'progressively' louder from the general direction of Sheffield right now. :eek:

If Crimson ain't Prog, then I don't know what is...

:eyebrows:

[icehockeyboy]

Could it be that those of a certain age had their first decent Hifi set up at the same time as prog was at its peak, or at least gaining in popularity?

[Marco]

Could be, but I was into Duran Duran and Spandau Ballet when I had my first decent system in 1982! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[daytona600]

i thought punk killed prog in 77

[Macca]

i thought punk killed prog in 77

Punk though that too. Until it died and was replaced by Spandau Ballet.

Spandau Ballet were for girls but if you pretended to like them girls would like you.

Although 'True' is actually a half-decent tune....

[mr sneff]

Now I would classify Van Halen and G'nR as 'hard rock' bands myself ...
+1 And there's only a couple of King Crimson albums that have a strong jazz flavour.

[Marco]

Spandau Ballet were for girls but if you pretended to like them girls would like you.

Although 'True' is actually a half-decent tune....

Indeed... That stuff just reflected who I was then: Kajagoogoo, Michael Jackson, Prince, Eurythmics, Yazoo, A-Ha, Human League, Depeche Mode, Thomson Twins, Howard Jones, OMD, U2, Blancmange - love all that stuff.

This was one of my fav 80s choons:


L03PJeB38dI


And of course Fiction Factory:


v81cJiuS2oI


Oh yeah, baby! :D

Got over 800 minty 12" singles, full of all that kind of stuff, and boy do they sound superb on the Techy!!

Marco.

[Gmanuk101]

I think you went to the same school discos as me Marco..pmsl :)

[Macca]

Makes me all nostalgic...

[Yomanze]

Well they're so used to wanking about with their HiFis that they correspondingly enjoy wanky music!

(joke)

[DarrenHW]

Hi, I'm Darren, 34 and I'm an 80's ololic. :wave:

Got about 200 80's 12" Singles, back cataloguing these tracks from my childhood was the reason I bought my first T/T. My favourite would probably be Tranvision Vamp "I don't want your money", ahh feels so good to finally tell someone :D.

Not really a big prog fan (nor would I consider myself an audiophile(yet...)) I think mainly due to lack of exposure, love Pink Floyd and a bit of Alan Parsons Project. If other prog sounds as good as the aforementioned then no surprise prog fans graduate to audiophiles, all suggestions for further listening gratefully received.


Indeed... That stuff just reflected who I was then: Kajagoogoo, Michael Jackson, Prince, Eurythmics, Yazoo, A-Ha, Human League, Depeche Mode, Thomson Twins, Howard Jones, OMD, U2, Blancmange - love all that stuff.

Oh yeah, baby! :D

Got over 800 minty 12" singles, full of all that kind of stuff, and boy do they sound superb on the Techy!!

Marco.

Marco, I had no idea, maybe we should set up a local support group :lol:

[SLS]

The Enid has to be prog rock typified.
Maybe it is because this is what we went to hear live before our hips gave way, teeth fell out and our student card disintegrated.
Besides Enid, Tull, Genesis, Floyd, etc. I went to a lot of classical, ballet and opera. It used to be cheap and I could afford even as an impoverished student. Due to the expansion of the middle classes, you now have to be an oligarch to afford Covent Garden. I go to Sadlers Well mostly these days, £30 for the best seats, and the theatre.
No doubt in 40 years my son will be in his lounge chair listening to The Libertines and Queen of the Stone Age and having the same argument with his kids.

[synsei]

Indeed... That stuff just reflected who I was then: Kajagoogoo

Now listen here young man, has nobody ever warned you that there are certain personal things that should never be shared on the t'internet for your own safety and peace of mind? Kajagoogoo? Really? :eek::D

[Arkless Electronics]

Now listen here young man, has nobody ever warned you that there are certain personal things that should never be shared on the t'internet for your own safety and peace of mind? Kajagoogoo? Really? :eek::D

I was truly shocked at this admission and now see Marco in a different light :D

[synsei]

I was truly shocked at this admission and now see Marco in a different light :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKWbMJOIkUk

I expect to be soundly spanked by André for posting this on a 'Prog' thread.... :eyebrows: :lol:

[Theo]

Ignoring the fact that Limahl was an utter fuckwit, the musicianship in Kajagoogoo was splendid, especially Nick Beggs on bass (neat link back to prog: Hackett & Wilson fans will know what I mean).

I love music from the 50s on: each decade has it's shining moments. My 80s heroes included New Order, the Cure, XTC, Psychedelic Furs, Japan, most of the 4AD bands, Pixies, etc. Also, there were some bloody good 'pop' music, surrounded by manufactured dreck. Same as every decade really...

I'm going to play 'Doot Doot' by Freur (Underworld fans will know).

[The Barbarian]

Prog to me is Rick Wakeman in all his wizard suits fannynig about on 20 keyboards with one keyboard on "auto chord" for 45mins at a time whilst everyone in the audience is sitting down listening and chin stroking..... burn the lot of em
Typical view of Prog Stereotyping..




Indeed. In fact, I think I can hear a low-pitched rumbling sound getting 'progressively' louder from the general direction of Sheffield right now.
If Crimson ain't Prog, then I don't know what is...
Prog stems from the remainder of Psychedelic Rock. The first KC LP was a crossover into prog if you like but from then on {for a bit} KC were 100% a prog band..


Saying that back to the O/P i don't use high end equipment just high quality equipment from the olden days, prog just sounds better to me on it.

[loo]

wow this is bringing back some bad memories
I preferred to spend the early eighties listening to the likes of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7WPI4TJImo
and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qh-AG3brrkM
as for prog I have never really understood what it is
but don't think I would like it:eyebrows:
Paul

[SLS]

We should be grateful.
Driving across Utah last summer, as you do, channels on the car radio (Bose - excellent - should someone ask) were 50s Country, 60s Country, 70s Country, 80s Country ... you get the picture. All the other channels were Country.
Arrive somewhere, lots of Country music, everywhere you go. Find a steak joint and ... Pardon me? The guy's playing prog rock off the net. Surprised they hadn't tied him to tree and set him on fire. Anyway, had a great time, one too many, a little worse for wear, and found out the next day 100 miles down the road that in my stupor had left the credit card in his machine. But it was worth it.

[johnB]

Driving across Utah last summer, as you do, channels on the car radio (Bose - excellent - should someone ask) were 50s Country, 60s Country, 70s Country, 80s Country ... you get the picture.

...... and your problem is? Sounds good!

[PaulStewart]

I like prog but I'm not a prog nut by any means. I have loads of Yes, KC, Floyd etc. One of the best new prog band around at the 'mo are Lifesigns who are prog rock charting all over the world. The bass/chapman stick player is Nick Beggs of Kajagoogoo fame

[PaulStewart]

We should be grateful.
Driving across Utah last summer, as you do, channels on the car radio (Bose - excellent - should someone ask) were 50s Country, 60s Country, 70s Country, 80s Country ... you get the picture. .

In Utah they like both kinds of music, Country and Western :lol:

[SLS]

...... and your problem is? Sounds good!

It was a 3-week trip ... did my brain in.

[SLS]

In Utah they like both kinds of music, Country and Western :lol:

OK ... but only because it's 5pm on a Friday afternoon.

[Tim]

I don't consider myself to be anything close to being an 'audiophile', but what is one anyway? :scratch: I enjoy good sound but would always put the music first.

Hanging a label on prog is not something I like to do either (or any music for that matter - to restrictive), I don't think music can be pigeon-holed anymore, but I do love what most would call prog, but then I like quite a wide range of music - I'm also in the right age bracket (55) and ELP were the first band I really got into, followed by the usual other 70's suspects. It was just the thing to do when my musical journey started and I still enjoy everything I enjoyed then, plus a whole lot more now.

[Arkless Electronics]

I expected some sort of rebuttal from Marco by now... maybe he's too shy to shy? :D

[walpurgis]

+1 And there's only a couple of King Crimson albums that have a strong jazz flavour.

Did somebody say KC were jazz influenced? :scratch:

[Dauntless]

Are there no Northern Soul men out there? You remember: Wilson Pickett, Sam & Dave, Otis Redding, Jackie Wilson, Edwin Starr, Bob & Earl, Junior Walker etc etc. Northern Clubs used to bounce to their music. They only played 'poncey' stuff in the clubs down South. Manchester was where it was at! As regards Prog Rock I was a big fan of Yes in particular. Their stuff and Steely Dan are the only bands that find there way onto my system - oh mustn't forget Rory Gallagher. Still been known to play some Northern Soul though!

[Joe]

Indeed... That stuff just reflected who I was then: Kajagoogoo,

You should take more care zipping up your trousers.

[walpurgis]

Did somebody say King Crimson were not psychedelic rock but instead were 100% prog rock?

I was bopping to this stuff when most of you lot were in nappies. KC were 100% psychedelic rock and for that matter Pink Floyd, bands like Led Zep were prog!

[julesd68]

Back in the early 80's I was heavily into 'metal' and 'prog' was a dirty word for me.

My brother listened to bands like The Enid, Yes, Genesis etc I don't know how he talked me into it, but he dragged me along to see Marillion at the Manchester Apollo, which was a fairly traumatic experience for a teenage metal-head ... To be fair to the boy, I'm sure I dragged him along to some heavier stuff he hated too ... :lol:

[SLS]

I thought Led Zep started doing Chicago Blues

[RichB]

I'd recommend that Graeme goes and gives his system a good workout with the following albums forthwith before passing any further comment....


Steven Wilson - The Raven that refused to sing
Airbag - The greatest show on earth
Dream Theater - Black Clouds and Silver Linings
Big Big Train - English Electric Full Power
Anathema - Weather Systems

These should give him a flavour of the current state of the art and the genre has never been healthier! In a world of disposable music all of the above artists have sought to make something which transcends fashion and demonstrates some real emotion as well as showing considerable skill and musicianship at its finest. The fact they all sound bloody wonderful when played on a nice system is just the icing on the cake really.

[The Barbarian]

Did somebody say King Crimson were not psychedelic rock but instead were 100% prog rock?

I was bopping to this stuff when most of you lot were in nappies. KC were 100% psychedelic rock and for that matter Pink Floyd, bands like Led Zep were prog!

:scratch: I think it might be best to stick to the opening post at this point..

[SLS]

In response and with ref to Dauntless, the Northern Soul king, my traumatic experience was an outing to The Stylistics, about 1978. The tunes, the suits, the moves - 35 years and I still haven't recovered.

[Joe]

I thought Led Zep started doing Chicago Blues

The phrase you're searching for is 'ripping off'.

[The Grand Wazoo]

They didn't just plagiarise the blues musicians......

PHU6OgNoUzE

[mr sneff]

Did somebody say KC were jazz influenced? :scratch:

Page 1 of the thread, Walpurgis; "'Prog' is a label that is rather liberally splashed around. Zappa and King Crimson have been mentioned, I don't regard these as prog. They are Jazz rock and Psychedelic (to an extent) rock respectively in my view."

[The Barbarian]

Ok since this topic is getting very laughable. I'm gonna ask one of the greatest Prog/Psych mastermen, good friend & supreme record collectors of the genre the world has ever known to comment on this & hopefully post it up for yew all..

[PaulStewart]

The phrase you're searching for is 'ripping off'.

They were fully paid up members of the "Lets rip off Willy Dixon club" that's for sure, cost them dear in the end :)

[walpurgis]

Yes, I said "respectively". Zappa: Jazz influenced, KC Psychedelic!

Anyway, as Andr'e rightly pointed out, it might be best to stick to the OP. Regarding which, perhaps the original question might have been better put 'why are most audiophiles rock nuts'

[Reffc]

As to the OP's original question, the answer is because it's better than being a plinky-plonky modern jazz nut! :ner:

[PaulStewart]

Thanks to all those who have mentioned KC, I have broken off from a theme of Americana I was listening to this evening and put on "in the Court of the Crimson King". I'd forgotten what a bloody fine album it is and to be honest way more psych than prog wiyh very jazzy bit's....... mind you third tracks a bit proggy.... Ahh! The hell with it why try and put it in boxes, just enjoy it ;)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Personally I think the original theory is just plain wrong. Take a look at the Spinning Today thread and see the variety of stuff that's on display there. Apart from one particular member's contributions, I don't think any one genre is represented much more than any other.
The fact that no-one is able to agree what 'prog' actually is, makes the whole thing pretty funny really.

I seem to remember, a long while back, starting what was intended to be a light hearted thread called 'What is this thing called prog' or something similar. It ended up in a proper forum bunfight and I believe one member actually ended up with a ban.
Add prog to politics and religion on the list of things not to discuss on forums! I still say it's just rock music too.

[The Barbarian]

Thanks to all those who have mentioned KC, I have broken off from a theme of Americana I was listening to this evening and put on "in the Court of the Crimson King". I'd forgotten what a bloody fine album it is and to be honest way more psych than prog wiyh very jazzy bit's....... mind you third tracks a bit proggy.... Ahh! The hell with it why try and put it in boxes, just enjoy it ;)

What people have to understand is the first KC LP was at a point where Psychedelic was crossing over into a new field where musicians were experimenting to a certain extent. Some bands at this time were slower at progressing than others hence sounded a couple years more dated than others. So you can safely say KC were very advanced for the time but were still at that crossover point.

You also have to understand most musicians of this type were generally Classical or Jazz trained musicians, so took their influences from Classical or Jazz or whatever they listern to. It was a time to experiment, this is why you sometimes hear Jazzy/Classical things going off within these type of albums of the time.. It is at this era around 1969/70 that i for one are very very driven by.. So to put a cap on it you can hear both Psychedelic & Progressive going on within that first offering..

[The Grand Wazoo]

Yes, I said "respectively". Zappa: Jazz influenced, KC Psychedelic!

Far more influenced by other things than jazz.
1950's doo-wop, blues and classical informed his music vastly more than did jazz.

[mr sneff]

Yes, I said "respectively". Zappa: Jazz influenced, KC Psychedelic!

Anyway, as Andr'e rightly pointed out, it might be best to stick to the OP. Regarding which, perhaps the original question might have been better put 'why are most audiophiles rock nuts'

Apologies Geoff, I didn't read "respectively".

[walpurgis]

Apologies Geoff, I didn't read "respectively".

No sweat man! ;)

[Macca]

Led Zep were a blues rock band, not prog. Prog for me has to have some extended noodling and quiet and slow passages and loud and fast passages in the same tune.

[Macca]

BTW the Northern Soul scene is still alive and well. There was an all-nighter in Blackpool recently.

[Stratmangler]

Led Zep were a blues rock band, not prog. Prog for me has to have some extended noodling and quiet and slow passages and loud and fast passages in the same tune.

"Ramble On" has quiet parts and extended noodling.
Does that make it Prog then? ;)

[Macca]

"Ramble On" has quiet parts and extended noodling.
Does that make it Prog then? ;)

No ;)

[Stratmangler]

No ;)

Well it ain't blues either, so what is it?

[Macca]

It's a Blues, listen to the bassline, that's a pure blues bassline, just mixed up a little by the best bass player ever IMO.

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's great, this genre stuff, ain't it?!
Doesn't anyone else find it faintly ridiculous that music that was made over 40 years ago is called 'progressive'?

[Macca]

I suppose it was a term coined at the time because it was a step onwards from 'she loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah.'

[The Grand Wazoo]

Well, yes precisely.
At the time it was intended to mean anything new that wasn't pop music. That's why bands like Black Sabbath were described as progressive. Since then, the term has come to mean something else entirely. In fact it became regressive!

[Reffc]

It's a Blues, listen to the bassline, that's a pure blues bassline, just mixed up a little by the best bass player ever IMO.

+1

Led Zep started out with Blues riffs, heavily influenced by people like Howlin Wolf; They simply added a heavier rock theme to it. I wouldn't class them as Prog at all. They were progressive only in the way that they took Blues and turned it into heavy rock, perhaps the first band to do that successfully. Like all music evolution, their innovation was to take something and add a new and appealing twist, right for the time. It's just remarkable how fresh some of their material still sounds 40 years on...

[Alex_UK]

I think this thread just goes to show why trying to pigeon hole music into genres is best done with only two - music you like, and music you don't... I like some music categorized as prog, but the majority of it doesn't really do it for me - heresy I know, but even quite a bit of Floyd I struggle with, and Geneis only became any good once Phil Collins became lead singer... :sofa:

[Macca]

Pigeon-holing by genre is important if you work in a record shop...I love some of the titles they come up with for those card dividers - '70s/80s Rockabilly' for instance. Or '80s Psyche/Trance'. Always amuses me.

[keiths]

Pigeon-holing by genre is important if you work in a record shop...I love some of the titles they come up with for those card dividers - '70s/80s Rockabilly' for instance. Or '80s Psyche/Trance'. Always amuses me.

Piccadilly records in Manchester have a bewildering array of genre dividers. I was looking for the latest Goldfrapp LP on vinyl in there last week and had to ask where to look. It was in a section labelled "Disco-Not-Disco" :scratch:

[Macca]

. It was in a section labelled "Disco-Not-Disco" :scratch:

Classic. I bet a fair few new staff get sacked for putting stuff in the wrong catagories: 'You incompetent fool! This is '80s Metal/Hardcore' not '80s Grindcore/Punk'!'

[Tim]

and Genesis only became any good once Phil Collins became lead singer...
hahahaha :guns:

Go and wash your mouth out Alex, you philistine . . . ;)

[keiths]

Classic. I bet a fair few new staff get sacked for putting stuff in the wrong catagories: 'You incompetent fool! This is '80s Metal/Hardcore' not '80s Grindcore/Punk'!'

:lol:

B-boy Breaks, Wonky Hop, Yacht Rock and Synthwave were a few others I spotted in there.

[Joe]

It's great, this genre stuff, ain't it?!
Doesn't anyone else find it faintly ridiculous that music that was made over 40 years ago is called 'progressive'?

Only in the sense that some art from over 100 years ago is called 'modern'.

[Joe]

+1

Led Zep started out with Blues riffs, heavily influenced by people like Howlin Wolf; .

'Heavily influenced by' = 'stole his best tunes'.

[John]

Back in the day bands like Sabbath and Zep were promoted as prog as it was a way to sell music and the genre was not as clearly defined as it is now. At the time it was mostly a reflection of new music.
I like a bit of prog like the Yes Album

[Marco]

I expected some sort of rebuttal from Marco by now... maybe he's too shy to shy? :D

Marco is just back after being away overnight at a rather nice hotel, spoiling my wife for her birthday. Some of us have a life outside of AoS, ya knows! :ner:

But yes, Kaja - oi lurved it. Reminds me of certain 'interesting' parties I attended back then....... ;)

Marco.

[Haselsh1]

I think this thread just goes to show why trying to pigeon hole music into genres is best done with only two - music you like, and music you don't... I like some music categorized as prog, but the majority of it doesn't really do it for me - heresy I know, but even quite a bit of Floyd I struggle with, and Geneis only became any good once Phil Collins became lead singer... :sofa:

I don't bloody wonder that sofa made an appearance you heathen

[Joe]

Marco is just back after being away overnight at a rather nice hotel, spoiling my wife for her birthday. Some of us have a life outside of AoS, ya knows! :ner:

Says him, with his 42,000 posts!

[Marco]

Indeed - over many years, since the inception of the forum! I accumulated most of my posts in the early years, when I was helping build up the forum and responding to almost every post (even those I wasn't really that interested in), simply to encourage new members.

These days, I don't post anywhere near as much as I used to, as I like to take more of a back seat and let things develop naturally :)

Marco.

[Alex_UK]

I don't bloody wonder that sofa made an appearance you heathen

:D

[Arkless Electronics]

I think this thread just goes to show why trying to pigeon hole music into genres is best done with only two - music you like, and music you don't... I like some music categorized as prog, but the majority of it doesn't really do it for me - heresy I know, but even quite a bit of Floyd I struggle with, and Geneis only became any good once Phil Collins became lead singer... :sofa:

+1

[John]

Proper Genesis
AFBY4dvoISc

[Haselsh1]

True prog rock avoided any time signature that resembled 4/4 time and was highly syncopated and also leaned heavily towards pomp and classical ceremony. Bands like Camel, ELP, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson and latterly early Rush proved that this kind of music appealed very heavily to highly intellectual student types that preferred to sit down and study the music at a very high level whereas bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin appealed to those with severely limited intelligence. Prog Rock could be bloody annoying if your tendency was to foot tap to the music as back in those days, when Phil Collins was truly a drummer, you would be very hard pushed to keep time with these idiots. In later years, Phil Collins tried to be a singer but failed miserably and Bill Bruford made some bloody awful albums with Patrick Moraz (who...?) however, Prog Rock developed into a new and highly articulate form of music of which Ozric Tentacles and Trio became good examples. I feel deeply sorry for those simple individuals who missed out on this totally unique form of English music. I guess some of you were destined to fill shelves at Asda.

;)

[Haselsh1]

Proper Genesis
AFBY4dvoISc

I adore your post

[The Grand Wazoo]

I adore your post


.....whereas bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin appealed to those with severely limited intelligence.

And I am deeply insulted by yours. Thanks for that.

[chelsea]

Out of quite a few people i know into hi fi not one of them are into prog

[Macca]

. I guess some of you were destined to fill shelves at Asda.

;)

I like Zep and Sabbath and I filled shelves at Gateway. Is that better? Or worse?

Probably worse.

[ff1d1l]

As one familiar with much prog from its original release - Crimson, Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Tull et al - I'd just like to say that to stereotype Led Zeppelin as a nitro fueled blues band with appeal only to the hard of thinking is to do them a disservice. They could do that stuff, sure, and better than most, but there's plenty of output which was as clever as much of the more mainstream proggers. IMHO The Rain Song is as sophisticated harmonically and melodically as anything the aforementioned recorded, and owes little to the blues. And is beautifully played and arranged too. Kashmir? No Quarter? Battle of Evermore?

My shelf stacking credentials are impeccable - I play four instruments to gigging level, and do, and my record collection encompasses British folk, Jazz, Classical, Americana (and the rest), and yes, still listen to those prog records from time to time (no doubt a hangover from my highly intellectual student days)...And very much enjoy a bit of Zep...


True prog rock avoided any time signature that resembled 4/4 time and was highly syncopated and also leaned heavily towards pomp and classical ceremony. Bands like Camel, ELP, Genesis, Yes, King Crimson and latterly early Rush proved that this kind of music appealed very heavily to highly intellectual student types that preferred to sit down and study the music at a very high level whereas bands like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin appealed to those with severely limited intelligence. Prog Rock could be bloody annoying if your tendency was to foot tap to the music as back in those days, when Phil Collins was truly a drummer, you would be very hard pushed to keep time with these idiots. In later years, Phil Collins tried to be a singer but failed miserably and Bill Bruford made some bloody awful albums with Patrick Moraz (who...?) however, Prog Rock developed into a new and highly articulate form of music of which Ozric Tentacles and Trio became good examples. I feel deeply sorry for those simple individuals who missed out on this totally unique form of English music. I guess some of you were destined to fill shelves at Asda.

;)

[The Barbarian]

It's great, this genre stuff, ain't it?!
Doesn't anyone else find it faintly ridiculous that music that was made over 40 years ago is called 'progressive'?

No & it is not a made up thing, it was called progressive back then..Here's a random clipping {Below} from early 1970 showing that 'Progressive' isnt a new fangled title.. Almost all major record label's created subsidairy labels for prog music ie: EMI {Harvest}, Pye {Dawn}, Decca {Deram}, RCA {Neon}, Philips/Phonogram {Vertigo} etc etc...

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w425/ELPFAN1968/WarmDust.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/ELPFAN1968/media/WarmDust.jpg.html)

[Marco]

No & it is not a made up thing, it was called progressive back then..Here's a random clipping {Below} from early 1970 showing that 'Progressive' isnt a new fangled title.. Almost all major record label's created subsidairy labels for prog music ie: EMI {Harvest}, Pye {Dawn}, Decca {Deram}, RCA {Neon}, Philips/Phonogram {Vertigo} etc etc...

http://i1075.photobucket.com/albums/w425/ELPFAN1968/WarmDust.jpg (http://s1075.photobucket.com/user/ELPFAN1968/media/WarmDust.jpg.html)

Very interesting, dude! :)

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Prog(ressive) is as it suggests, it continually evolves, I don't think prog can be truly defined. So one man's prog band could be another man's (cue whatever genre you want) band.

[The Barbarian]

:donk:

[Audioman]

I think The Barbarian firmly nails the definition of prog firmly on the head. You can't define it as something modern that has proggy elements (in your opinion). As mentioned it was well defined in it's day and is almost exclusively a British genre of music. Of course there is current music that falls firmly into this category but it hardly gets any mainstream publicity. I suppose the most popular example on this forum is the recent Steve Wilson album. What confused some people even 40+ years ago is that record shops (HMV comes to mind) tended to put all rock/folk related genres that weren't pop or easy listening in the 'progressive' section.

As far as audiophiles being mostly prog nuts that is the biggest load of bollocks I have heard for a long time. In fact I would say that out and out prog fans would have always formed a minority of so called audiophiles. The audiophile of the 'prog era' (anything up to 1994 according to Andre) would more likely be a James Last fan as most students listening to prog didn't give a toss about SQ at the time and played this stuff on ye olde groove grinder (which is all they could afford in any case).

Now some people did see the value of a decent TT early on and accessible hi-fi was expanding and available from Comet and a number of other long forgotten discount warehouses. The fact is audiophiles who listened to Classical, Jazz or The Carpenters were probably more plentiful than Prog listeners. Later day Audiophiles through the 80's onwards more likely played Dire Straits (to which I plead guilty) and a bunch of recommended audiophool recordings. Come to think of it Dire Straits is still a part of my listening pleasure.:)

[Joe]

I dislike prog, and have never stacked a supermarket shelf, thus I win.

[John]

As Andre points out Progressive rock developed out of the psychedelic scene. Back in the early 70s bands like Zeppelin and Sabbath were sometimes promoted as progressive bands, its only over time does a genre get more defined.

[Macca]

. Later day Audiophiles through the 80's onwards more likely played Dire Straits (to which I plead guilty) and a bunch of recommended audiophool recordings. Come to think of it Dire Straits is still a part of my listening pleasure.:)

I would suggest that 'Love Over Gold' is a prog album, although not by Andre's strict definition, obviously. I had always assumed that most audiophiles were into classical music, however Alan Sircom recently commented that they would use classical music at shows to clear the room if they wanted a break so this is not true, at least not anymore.

Lots of people on here like Yes and early Genesis which are both definitely prog so the OP is accurate in some respects. They do nothing for me though, and yes (pun intended) I have tried.

I wonder how many people are like me in that they got into using proper kit instead of a midi system because their musical taste expanded into more complex music that showed up the deficiencies of their low-fi equipment?

[mr sneff]

This thread seems to have largely moved into a discussion of what is/isn't prog and the merits thereof rather than addressing whether the OPs premise is correct. I suspect it isn't, certainly not true for me, although I do listen to prog. A poll of forum members might be interesting, but would only indicate listening tastes of people who bother to post on forums.

[Dauntless]

In response and with ref to Dauntless, the Northern Soul king, my traumatic experience was an outing to The Stylistics, about 1978. The tunes, the suits, the moves - 35 years and I still haven't recovered.
Just trolling through this thread. Had to pick up to this one! First I would say that by 1978 Soul Music was pretty burned out! For me it was at it's peak in the 60's and was dominated by record labels like Tamla and Stax. Myself, I wouldn't cross the street to see the Stylistics. Like every type of music, some artists were much better than others. If you want a little taste of 60's Soul try some Otis Redding. Suggest 'The Immortal Otis' or 'Otis Blue' both available on Amazon for little money.

[Dauntless]

I think this thread just goes to show why trying to pigeon hole music into genres is best done with only two - music you like, and music you don't... I like some music categorized as prog, but the majority of it doesn't really do it for me - heresy I know, but even quite a bit of Floyd I struggle with, and Geneis only became any good once Phil Collins became lead singer... :sofa:
For me Collins destroyed Genesis. I mean ' Trick of the Tail' Such rubbish compared to say 'Foxtrot.' He turned Genesis from Prod Rock to Retrograde Rock imho! Was lucky to see Pete Gabriel with Genesis live twice. Brilliant concerts.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I prefer Gabriel era Genesis too, but to say that Phil Collins destroyed them is just weird. Peter Gabriel walked away from the band!

[Dauntless]

I prefer Gabriel era Genesis too, but to say that Phil Collins destroyed them is just weird. Peter Gabriel walked away from the band!
In my day the rumour was that he was 'forced out'

[PaulStewart]

For me Collins destroyed Genesis. I mean ' Trick of the Tail' Such rubbish compared to say 'Foxtrot.' He turned Genesis from Prod Rock to Retrograde Rock imho! Was lucky to see Pete Gabriel with Genesis live twice. Brilliant concerts.

To be honest, I feel that Phil Collins destroys music with almost as much alacrity as he destroys acting... Remember Buster? In my opinion it's all formulaic stage school rubbish. However, he can be a good producer and his technique with drums, not just playing but setting them up and recording them is second to none. BTW I like Zep and other blues rock and some prog, perhaps I'm an intellectual who likes to stack shelves on my days off :)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Yes Paul, like me, you'd probably feel the need to consider such things as moment of inertia, section modulus and the distance from the neutral axis to the outermost edge of the shelf before placing anything on it!

[John]

Phil Collins is a good drummer ..... but that's all I appreciate

[loo]

Phil Collins is a good drummer ..... but that's all I appreciate

I prefer the Cadbury Gorilla;)

[Tim]

For me Collins destroyed Genesis. I mean ' Trick of the Tail' Such rubbish compared to say 'Foxtrot.'
Not sure I would agree with that . . . destroy?

The band changed yes, any band changes when they lose thier front man and major songwriter and I was lucky enough to see both incarnations and personally much preferred the Gabriel era . . . but . . . Entangled, Ripples and Los Endos are all superbly crafted pieces of music and each is timeless, just as much as Supper's Ready is IMHO.

[Audioman]

Perhaps posters would like to get back on topic. It isn't "do you hate Phil Collins ?' BTW 'Trick Of The Tale' is as much prog as the preceding Genesis albums and is my joint favourite with 'Selling England By The Pound'.

The answer to the OP's question is an emphatic BLANK SPACE as it is founded on an incorrect assumption. Anyone who want's to argue otherwise is welcome but keep discussions of other forms of music and specific artists out of it unless you are under the illusion that all Audiophiles play Phil Collins records exclusively. :lol:

[Tim]

. . . unless you are under the illusion that all Audiophiles play Phil Collins records exclusively.
:lol: best laugh I have had all week

[Arkless Electronics]

I like the first two solo Collins albums so there :ner:

[PaulStewart]

Yes Paul, like me, you'd probably feel the need to consider such things as moment of inertia, section modulus and the distance from the neutral axis to the outermost edge of the shelf before placing anything on it!

Indeed, not to mention determining the final position of said item with reference to the golden ratio :lol:

[PaulStewart]

The answer to the OP's question is an emphatic BLANK SPACE as it is founded on an incorrect assumption. Anyone who want's to argue otherwise is welcome but keep discussions of other forms of music and specific artists out of it unless you are under the illusion that all Audiophiles play Phil Collins records exclusively. :lol:

While agreeing with the overall sentiment, I would just mention, for those of you with tuners, that Berlioz's L'Enfance du Christ is live from the Barbican on R3 at the moment, so out with the prog, blues rock etc., and it's fire up the Troughline time for me. :)

[mr sneff]

Not sure I would agree with that . . . destroy?

The band changed yes, any band changes when they lose thier front man and major songwriter and I was lucky enough to see both incarnations and personally much preferred the Gabriel era . . . but . . . Entangled, Ripples and Los Endos are all superbly crafted pieces of music and each is timeless, just as much as Supper's Ready is IMHO.


Guys, take it here http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?29669-Gabriel-or-Collins&p=509692#post509692 :eek:

[Floyddroid]

I love Prog. It lends itself nicely to good hifi and has it's merits and de-merits. There are some great modern Prog acts like Big Big Train, Magenta, The Tangent and Combination Head that always make me feel glad that i invested so heavily on my Hifi. I agree with Marco, it is age related. Hifi and Prog have grown up together snf fit hand in glove. I became smitten with them both after hearing Dark Side Of The Moon on my friends Ariston tt/Pioneer int amp/Bose speakers.

If you want to know a little more about what is going on in Prog check out my site www.progmeister.com

[technobear]

Out of quite a few people i know into hi fi not one of them are into prog

Wrong! I have a very large collection of prog, a high intellect and I like Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zep. Having said that, I do in fact own one James Last CD :eek:


' BTW 'Trick Of The Tale' is as much prog as the preceding Genesis albums and is my joint favourite with 'Selling England By The Pound'.

Here, here! :clap:

And as nobody has yet mentioned Porcupine Tree, I will... oh, I just did :D

[chelsea]

I saw a sky arts programme on early Genesis last month.
I really didn't realise quite how awful they were.

[chelsea]

Wrong! I have a very large collection of prog






:eek:

[technobear]

:eek:

You will be tied up and subjected to "Dance On The Volcano" next time I see you. Awful indeed!

[Marco]

Hi Steve,


I agree with Marco, it is age related. Hifi and Prog have grown up together snf fit hand in glove.

Yup, given the average age of most 'audiophiles', taking into account also the type of characters that forums attract (i.e. what I would call 'diehard non-trendies', who actively shun any form of mainstream music), I'm certain that this accounts significantly for the love of (classic rock) and prog, especially because as you say, some of the kit that folk here grew up with was in its 'prime' during the heyday of that type of music.

That's why I nailed my love of 80s music to the mast, as it were, (as it's what I first started listening to on a proper hi-fi system), in order to dilute (however slightly) the influence of the staunch rock/progheads here!! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[The Barbarian]

In addition most propar proggers see Prog as an elitest music, everything is inferior in their eyes, snobby if you like..in which i'll admit im 101% guilty of

:harp:

[Gmanuk101]

good job I never mentioned Progressive House.... or the dirty Knife.. (for those python fans)

[Marco]

What about funk/house/garage, etc, and other genres of dance music - anyone here play that stuff on their systems? Some of the most impressive sounds I get are when playing the aforementioned music (on immaculately recorded 12" singles) on the Techy! :eek:

This is one of my fav haunts, when up in Glasgow, where I'll happily spend a few hours listening to all sorts of different and obscure dance/club music on the supplied decks and headphones, before leaving with a pile of bangin' choons on 12" vinyl!! :gig:

Check out some of the choons for sale (you can listen to samples): http://www.rubadubrecords.co.uk/music

Marco.

[daytona600]

Can,t beat a good dance 12inch marco on a good system

[Dauntless]

Have to admit to having a liking for Funk and Fusion myself. Like some material from Weather Report, Stanley Clarke, Miles, Marcus Miller. Three great albums : Jazz In The Garden ( Stanley Clarke ) The Sun Don't Lie ( Marcus Miller ) Aventura ( Alex Wilson ) Great Albums imho. Have to admit not listening to much Prog Rock these days. Led Zep sitting unplayed for years in my CD rack.

[mr sneff]

In addition most propar proggers see Prog as an elitest music, everything is inferior in their eyes, snobby if you like..in which i'll admit im 101% guilty of

:harp:

Whether it's prog, classical, rap, whatever it's all just vibrating air hitting eardrums. It's only superior/inferior if you think it is :doh:

[Gmanuk101]

What about funk/house/garage, etc, and other genres of dance music - anyone here play that stuff on their systems? Some of the most impressive sounds I get are when playing the aforementioned music (on immaculately recorded 12" singles) on the Techy! :eek:

This is one of my fav haunts, when up in Glasgow, where I'll happily spend a few hours listening to all sorts of different and obscure dance/club music on the supplied decks and headphones, before leaving with a pile of bangin' choons on 12" vinyl!! :gig:

http://www.rubadubrecords.co.uk/music

Listen to this, for example: http://www.rubadubrecords.co.uk/rss/player/info/product/67862/num/1/ Fookin' awesome!!

Marco.

I know that place M,,,, a nice little shop is attached to Queen Street station in Glasgow.. I went in once to Purchase the Led Zep 02 live recording and ended up spending £200 after talking to the bloke behind the counter etc... must have seen me coming.

yep, I did mean my little comment as a humorous (or less) poke at the prog' 'label', but I can see where you are coming from...I used to have similar discussions with the more "traditional" music players at music college, who like to "look down" at the electronic crowd... all very amusing.

[MCRU]

What about funk/house/garage, etc, and other genres of dance music - anyone here play that stuff on their systems? Some of the most impressive sounds I get are when playing the aforementioned music (on immaculately recorded 12" singles) on the Techy! :eek:

This is one of my fav haunts, when up in Glasgow, where I'll happily spend a few hours listening to all sorts of different and obscure dance/club music on the supplied decks and headphones, before leaving with a pile of bangin' choons on 12" vinyl!! :gig:

http://www.rubadubrecords.co.uk/music

Listen to this, for example: http://www.rubadubrecords.co.uk/rss/player/info/product/67862/num/1/ Fookin' awesome!!

Marco.

100% exactly right there chief, 80's house, funk and soul on a 12" single CANNOT be beaten, bass to die for!

[The Barbarian]

It's only superior/inferior if you think it is :doh:

Ah well people do too much thinking abart stuff, Thing is the old Barbarian knows it's superior

:rfl:

[mr sneff]

Ah well people do too much thinking abart stuff, Thing is the old Barbarian knows it's superior

:rfl:

Yes, well, the barbarians 'knowing' is just more thinking :lol:

[Spectral Morn]

The Enid has to be prog rock typified.
Maybe it is because this is what we went to hear live before our hips gave way, teeth fell out and our student card disintegrated.
Besides Enid, Tull, Genesis, Floyd, etc. I went to a lot of classical, ballet and opera. It used to be cheap and I could afford even as an impoverished student. Due to the expansion of the middle classes, you now have to be an oligarch to afford Covent Garden. I go to Sadlers Well mostly these days, £30 for the best seats, and the theatre.
No doubt in 40 years my son will be in his lounge chair listening to The Libertines and Queen of the Stone Age and having the same argument with his kids.

Personally I always felt the Enid sat in that classical rock zone populated by bands like Sky and Julian Lloyd Webber's Variations album. While there are prog leanings I think classical rock is a better fit.


Regards Neil

[PaulStewart]

Personally I always felt the Enid sat in that classical rock zone populated by bands like Sky and Julian Lloyd Webber's Variations album. While there are prog leanings I think classical rock is a better fit.


Regards Neil

+1

[mr sneff]

Personally I always felt the Enid sat in that classical rock zone populated by bands like Sky and Julian Lloyd Webber's Variations album. While there are prog leanings I think classical rock is a better fit.


Regards Neil

FWIW if you look on ProgArchives http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=778 amongst the plethora of sub-genres The Enid are classed as Symphonic Prog :)

[PaulStewart]

Thank Neil,

Until you mentioned them I hadn't listened to Sky for ages, I'm now thoroughly enjoying Deus Irae :)

Cheers

[Spectral Morn]

Thank Neil,

Until you mentioned them I hadn't listened to Sky for ages, I'm now thoroughly enjoying Deus Irae :)

Cheers

No worries a great and underrated band.


Regards Neil

[Spectral Morn]

FWIW if you look on ProgArchives http://www.progarchives.com/artist.asp?id=778 amongst the plethora of sub-genres The Enid are classed as Symphonic Prog :)

Its a matter of semantics I guess but they view themselves as classical musicians using modern instruments in the same way as Sky did, so for me its classical rock more than prog in the strictest sense of what the genre is normally thought to be but there are definitely cross over points into prog and English folk music influences, much as there was for Vaughan Williams.


Regards Neil

[mr sneff]

Its a matter of semantics I guess but they view themselves as classical musicians using modern instruments in the same way as Sky did, so for me its classical rock more than prog in the strictest sense of what the genre is normally thought to be but there are definitely cross over points into prog and English folk music influences, much as there was for Vaughan Williams.


Regards Neil


Yeah, that's why I said 'FWIW'. You can argue til the cows come home about pigeonholes, but it's all music (although Cage's 4' 33 challenges the idea of what music is) and it either moves you or not :)

[Joe]

Right noise.
We're gonna get real speedy
We're gonna wear black all the time
You're gonna make it on your own.
'cause we dig
'cause we dig
We dig
We dig repetition
We dig repetition
We dig repetition in the music
And we're never going to lose it.
All you daughters and sons
who are sick of fancy music
We dig repetition
Repetition in the drums
and we're never going to lose it.
This is the three Rs
The three Rs:
Repetition, Repetition, Repetition

As Mark E Smith put it.

[The Barbarian]

FWIW if you look on ProgArchives

No thanks

[mr sneff]

No thanks

Why?

[The Barbarian]

:lolsign:

[The Barbarian]

What makes me laugh is people that spend thousands on gear but listern to utter utter crap!

Aside from that it's common knowledge that audiophiles like to buy a dozen selected recordings they can listern to whilst w**nkin over their hi-fi, the real real enthusiast don't even have any music to play but hey ho who cares. a test record means everything

:lol:

;)

[mr sneff]

What makes me laugh is people that spend thousands on gear but listern to utter utter crap!

Aside from that it's common knowledge that audiophiles like to buy a dozen selected recordings they can listern to whilst wanking over their hi-fi, the real real enthusiast don't even have any music to play but hey ho who cares. a test record means everything

:lol:

;)

There was a thread on another forum where someone was asking for advice on his next upgrade to his (already expensive) system. Should he improve his digital front end or buy a turntable. Turned out he had 100 CDs and no vinyl at all. Best piece of advice was "buy more music"! :lol: But as to what you listen to, one persons idea of great music is another persons crap and vice versa.

[walpurgis]

a test record means everything

Some of my test records sound very nice. :eek:

[smithy]

I do like Michael Schenker and the Scorpions is there something wrong with me?do I qualify as an audiophile.

[John]

Strangers in the Night with Michael playing Rock Bottom is a classic Scorpions could be a bit tacky but Uli could really play. Both have nothing to do with prog