View Full Version : Upgrade path from DM2s
Very soon I will be offering up for sale my SL1210 and Classé DR5 pre-amp, two very capable and quite valuable pieces of equipment. The initial impetus for this decision was down to our financial situation, however it has occurred to me since that there may be an opportunity here to move up the speaker ladder a bit. Those of you who have followed me on my journey since I joined AoS four years ago are likely have a pretty good understanding of the sound I prefer, open, airy mids and highs plus tight, reasonably defined and extended bass. Bearing that in mind, if you were considering an upgrade from where I am now with the B&W DM2's, where would you be looking to go next? The budget will be around £350 to £450 for used speakers, which will come from the sale of one of the items I mentioned, or perhaps via a swap with cash adjustment either way... ;)
istari_knight
10-12-2013, 22:01
*cough* Stacked DM2's ! *cough*
Déjà vu ? :scratch: :D
I would look for some Royd Sapphires, Sorcerers, Merlins, Sintras, Eden within budget and despite flaws an uncanny openness, 'cuts through the air' and 'throws gobs of music out' as Gromit puts, a fun departure from the B&W sound. Can sell them on for the same price or more.
istari_knight
10-12-2013, 22:25
They'll certainly be different to the B&W's... Eden's up against the back wall on open frame [kan] stands are my favourite Royds followed very closely by the Apex... There's a point, Royd Apex would be nice :eyebrows:
Another recommendation would be some second-hand Amphion Helium or Argon standmounts. I have listened to the B&W 805D & IMHO they're not a match for the Amphion Argon2 and 3s in terms of long-term listening enjoyment i.e. they make more music! Still they are ultra-refined and clean like the B&Ws.
The Grand Wazoo
10-12-2013, 23:01
What are the placement requirements (if any) Dave?
Room size & how far away from walls can you go?....y'know, all that stuff
Any speakers which need to be hard up against a rear or side wall are out of the equation. The room is five by four and a half metres and the DM2's are currently positioned around eight inches from the rear wall sat on Atacama SL400 stands (400mm tall) and around three metres apart. The replacements would need to sit in this position as it is a very busy room with a fair square footage of soft furnishings. We live in a house built during the late 1960's so ceiling height is standard ;)
The Grand Wazoo
10-12-2013, 23:28
OK, so must they be stand mounters? Not that there's anything wrong with that at all
walpurgis
10-12-2013, 23:31
How about a nice sounding vintage speaker nobody is likely to think of. A pair of IMF TLS50 transmission lines? The driver line up is rather similar to the DM2, but the sound is possibly smoother and the bass certainly more extended. Plus, although they are floorstanders, they'll take up no more room than the B&Ws on their stands. The TLS50 was a very highly rated speaker. I've seen a few pairs on eBay recently.
OK, so must they be stand mounters? Not that there's anything wrong with that at all
Nope, just want something that works well in the room Chris :)
How about a nice sounding vintage speaker nobody is likely to think of. A pair of IMF TLS50 transmission lines? The driver line up is rather similar to the DM2, but the sound is possibly smoother and the bass certainly more extended. Plus, although they are floorstanders, they'll take up no more room than the B&Ws on their stands. The TLS50 was a very highly rated speaker. I've seen a few pairs on eBay recently.
It's funny you should mention IMF TLS50's Geoff as I am rather fond of them ;)
istari_knight
10-12-2013, 23:55
I went from TLS50's to DM2's & didnt regret it...
walpurgis
11-12-2013, 00:16
I've heard both (many years ago) and liked both, but I just love the effortless weight the IMFs give.
istari_knight
11-12-2013, 02:23
Indeed, who would have thought the B200 was capable of producing such wonderful tones ? :harp:
... Another classic I would be considering at that price is Gale GS401's... But will need a refurb now unless already done.
Unfortunately I couldn't accommodate 401's in my room James unless I positioned them vertically and besides, I think they'd be too much of an awkward load for the Quad 306 to drive... :eyebrows:
Consider some Impulse H6 or Dali's Dave. Not a large footprint but a huge sound from small drivers and originals should be within your budget. There was a pair of H2's knocking about recently but they may have been too large for you.
One possible and (costly) sad MEGA issue with old IMF's - I'm told the foam in the lines deteriorates and this can make an already loose bass impossibly awful... The total lack of damping on the drivers means a SOLID STATE amp of mega damping factor is mandatory if any bass control is to be acheived - you wonder why the Crown D series was so highly regarded with this maker's speakers at the time? Most other amps sounded bloated or bass light in comparison I remember.
few of you know these drivers, but the Celestion HF1300/Coles combo for tweeters remains a good proposition despite fuller-range tweeters these days. The DM2 had a slightly flabby and ill-defined bass by the standards of its betters (even by BC1 standards I remember). Such a shame that Spendor SP1's now fetch such stupid money (Alex_UK is very happy though :lol:)
Another distant possibility presented itself earlier although it will ultimately depend on me realizing what I think the DR5 is worth as well as getting it sold pronto: Dan (Ledzep) is selling his ART Skibo's... :eyebrows:
istari_knight
11-12-2013, 20:30
Yes Dave R, it took a Citation 12 Deluxe to sort my pair out. I remember tripping the protection in my NAP160 whilst "showing them off" to a friend... needless to say, not very impressive when that happens :lol:
I Love my DM2s!
Stacked!!!!, that i would love to hear!
I Love my DM2s!
Stacked!!!!, that i would love to hear!
Stacked DM2s don't work. I have heard the results: when the speakers are stacked tweeter-to-tweeter, the bass is vague and suffers phase effects; if the speakers are stacked with the bass units close together, the treble is all over place, especially cymbals and vocals are less than focused. Avoid!
istari_knight
12-12-2013, 18:47
Stacked DM2s don't work. I have heard the results: when the speakers are stacked tweeter-to-tweeter, the bass is vague and suffers phase effects; if the speakers are stacked with the bass units close together, the treble is all over place, especially cymbals and vocals are less than focused. Avoid!
Oh dear ! Quadraphonic maybe ? :D
I went from DM2s to Castle Howards in 1995, still got the howards.
I also went from a Cyrus 2 and psx to a Copland CSA-14, still use that in my main system too.
Arkless Electronics
12-12-2013, 21:21
The 8" from the wall requirement is a bit of a problem IMHO... too close for most speakers and not quite close enough for "against the wall" types.
The original Spendor SP1 is a very nice speaker but could do with being at least a couple of feet from the wall.... as I suspect the DM2's probably could.
The 8" from the wall requirement is a bit of a problem IMHO... too close for most speakers and not quite close enough for "against the wall" types.
The original Spendor SP1 is a very nice speaker but could do with being at least a couple of feet from the wall.... as I suspect the DM2's probably could.
Actually Jez IME the DM2's are the unfussiest speakers I've owned and don't appear to care where they are put, at least not in my room. I've had them sited in various places since I bought them and their tone doesn't change one jot except when close into a corner where they boom just a little ;)
Best speakers I have ever owned are Dali Suite 2.8s.
Plonk them anywhere and they sing. Awesome tight controlled bass and really sweet top end too. Midband was slighty coloured but not a huge amount. They could stand some welly too and were easily driven by a valve amp (Puresound A30) so they are not power hungry either.
No good to me now in my current tiny listening room, otherwise I would never have sold them.
Problem is finding a pair for sale :(
walpurgis
12-12-2013, 23:12
Funnily enough, my rather large Tannoy Cheviot IIs stand toed inwards about 6" away from the back wall and 14" away from the side walls in my small 11' by 10' den and sound just fine. No bloat or boom and despite the small room size bass extension is good.
walpurgis
16-12-2013, 21:31
Any ideas or decisions yet Dave?
Ah Geoff, it's all in hand mate. I should be taking delivery of these very soon ;)
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11187&d=1386783687
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11188&d=1386783746
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11189&d=1386783772
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11190&d=1386783852
walpurgis
16-12-2013, 23:04
Hmm, they look interesting, I know nothing about them. I recognise the SEAS main driver, looks like 6 1/2" job. Have you heard these speakers yet?
No Geoff. Because of my health situation and their location I have had to buy them on spec, however I have been reading up on them and asking around and apparently their character is supposed to be close to that of the DM2's so I have my fingers crossed, if not I can always move them on easily enough. It has always been a trial and error situation at this end ;)
Mr Kipling
17-12-2013, 22:05
What's the extra positive terminal for?
I have no idea Stephen and it is a question I intended to put to Dan when he called me yesterday afternoon to say that the Skibo's would be delivered sometime today... :doh:
walpurgis
20-12-2013, 20:41
Have you got them yet?
Have you got them yet?
Yes :)
I am on the hunt for a pair of replacement Coles 4001G super-tweeters however I baulk at paying close to 50 quid each which is what Falcon are charging. I am looking to buy a pair of working used units for around the same price (or less if possible) as a new unit because money is tight. Having said that I have an opportunity to acquire a pair of Fostex FT17H (http://diyaudioprojects.com/Drivers/FT17H/) super-tweeters and wondered whether they could be coaxed into working well in the DM2's, I note they are 8ohm units though so perhaps this would be an issue, would that be the case?
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