Stock arm gone

[twotone]

Hi guys, I finally got round to installing a new (old) tonearm and ebony armboard on my Technics SL1200 deck.

This is clearly the biggest improvment that I've heard since I got the deck earlier on this year.

I bought a SH Micro Seiki MA-202 from a dealer in Hong Kong via ebay, the tonearm came with a brand new MS headshell, additional weight, armrest and a tonearm cable.

The tonearm I suspect is NOS or at least it has been in someone's drawer somewhere since it was bought new because it is in mint condition, in fact everything is in mint condition except perhaps for the cable which looks a little aged but the plug contacts look brand new and they look as they they've never been fitted to the arm.

Regarding the plug on the cable and the cable in general, I've plugged it into the tonearm but it seems a bit loose and it drops out of the socket on the arm sometimes which results in the loss of the right channel. I simply wiggle it about and it will be fine for another few records but if i move the the tone-arm a certain way then the plug comes adrift slightly.

The plug on the cable is a five pin SME type of plug I believe.

Now I've never fitted a cable to a tonearm before and it seems like a simple push fit but I don't want to push the plug into the socket to much in case I damage the plug or the socket on the arm.

Do you keep pushing the plug into the socket some way and then it locks or something or do old cable plugs suffer from this sort of problem that I'm experiencing?

The plug has a small pin on it which lines up with a groove in the tonearm socket but the pin doesn't go anywhere near the groove which is why I'm thinking that I don't have the plug properly inserted into the socket.

Which brings me to my second point re the cable, I've noticed that you can buy a van damme tonearm cable for about £50 or so on ebay, is this cable worth buying and will the plug be better on a newer cable, anyone know?

I've been listening to some favourite LPs since I fitted the tonearm and arm board and my first impressions are that I'm listening to a different deck, the music is wonderful now, don't get me wrong it was good before with the stock arm but the MS tonearm just makes the records sound great and very musical.

I listen mainly to jazz and soul but I put on the Joshua Tree after reading Audio Al's thread about his supercharged set up but I wasn't impressed with the sound of the album, maybe I've got a poor recording or my set up isn't that good with that sort of music but I only listened to about the first fout tracks then took it off the deck, having said that though I played this particular album to death when it came out so maybe it's just fatigue with the record.

I'll get photos of the arm board and the tonearm on the deck and posted them here for anyone interested and I'll put some more thoughts in the thread re the music and the sound of my system once I've properly set the cart up on the arm.

I just sort of set the cart up quickly to get it all working again as i didn't want to be without the deck for too long.

One final thought for anyone thinking about modding their deck then I would say that replacing the stock tonearm has got to one of the first things that you should do, I don't really see any point in spending money on the stock arm vis a vis re-wiring it etc just go the whole road and replace it with decent quality tonearm and be done with it.

For reference I've done the PSU mod and fitted an external one, I also have isonoes and boots, and have a funk acromat.

The cart is a SAE 1000LT HOMC.

Tony

[Audio Al]

Tony

I see you are well and truly on the slope :lol:

Your new arm looks nice , I Google'd it

It is IMPORTANT to get the VTA and cartridge correctly aligned ;)

Sounds like you may have a new arm and a used cable from the dealer , I would say replace the cable when funds allow ,

Have fun :)

[Oldpinkman]

For sure, as I have posted ad nauseum, the arm mod (for any deck, but especially the aos only tt in the universe) is the one with the biggest potential and likely to have the biggest bang for buck ( mat is an accessory, cartridge another component not modification) . Happy listening
:cool:

[twotone]

Some photos guys.

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zpsf56023cf.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zpsf56023cf.jpg.html)


http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2920_zps5a65111f.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2920_zps5a65111f.jpg.html)


http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2918_zps3c5dcc6a.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2918_zps3c5dcc6a.jpg.html)



http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2924_zps2f895fe8.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2924_zps2f895fe8.jpg.html)



http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2927_zps72573fa8.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2927_zps72573fa8.jpg.html)



http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2928_zps60f197bc.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2928_zps60f197bc.jpg.html)


http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zps6267db6c.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zps6267db6c.jpg.html)

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zps782f4ca0.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zps782f4ca0.jpg.html)

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zps701e989d.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/vcm_s_kf_repr_640x426_zps701e989d.jpg.html)

[phonomac]

Hello there,
Two quick observations:

the VTA is well off, the arm bearing is about 10mm too high

the pin on the arm cable should line up with the slot, and should be at the top of the slot (ie fully inserted) when the din connector is properly mated.

Fix these then give us another update on the sound :)

hope this helps.

regards

Angus

ps, your MA-202 looks in fabulous nick, well done.

pps, the Micro Seiki arm cables are good quality low-capacitance cables. If that is what you have give it a good listen before you rush to change it.

[twotone]

Tony

I see you are well and truly on the slope :lol:

Your new arm looks nice , I Google'd it

It is IMPORTANT to get the VTA and cartridge correctly aligned ;)

Sounds like you may have a new arm and a used cable from the dealer , I would say replace the cable when funds allow ,

Have fun :)

Thanks Al, yes I've got to set the arm up properly but if after doing that it sounds any better than it does at the moment I'll be completely over the moon:eek:

I was thinking of buying this cable below, this company seem to do a lot of versions for similar money.

Tony

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Van-Damme-silver-plated-OFC-flexible-Tonearm-cable/221325380746?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D19103%26meid%3D3156525169425554285%26pid%3D 100011%26prg%3D8669%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D2213 05732185%26

[twotone]

Hello there,
Two quick observations:

the VTA is well off, the arm bearing is about 10mm too high

the pin on the arm cable should line up with the slot, and should be at the top of the slot when the din connector is properly mated.

Fix these then give us another update on the sound :)

hope this helps.

regards

Angus

ps, your MA-202 looks in fabulous nick, well done.

Thanks Angus, yes these are the first photos I've since dropped the arm down quite a bit, I was having problems lining up the arm rest and and arm lift as both were in each other's way but that's sorted now.

I'll post photos of the new set up.

Thanks too for the plug advice, I'll try that.

Regards

Tony

[twotone]

For sure, as I have posted ad nauseum, the arm mod (for any deck, but especially the aos only tt in the universe) is the one with the biggest potential and likely to have the biggest bang for buck ( mat is an accessory, cartridge another component not modification) . Happy listening
:cool:

Hi Richard, completely agree with you here. I only wish I had changed the tonearm at the very start.

With the greatest of respect to Speedy Steve I don't think that his wonderfull ebony armboard is responsible for the huge difference in sound, I definitely think most of that's down to the arm itself.

The armbase surely helps but not to the extent I'm hearing I don't think but it's difficult to really tell cause you can't fit a stock arm on one of Steve's armboards or mabay you can, anyone done that?

Tony

[twotone]

Right guys sorted out the VTA and stylus pressure and I think I've died on gone to heaven:eek:

I put on Norah Jones: Come Away With Me on Bluenote, wonderful just bloody wonderful, best I've ever heard vinyl on my system, stunning!

Still got the connector problem, I tried to fit the plug into the socket on the arm and I'm pretty sure that I've got it plugged in properly but the plug is loose so need to do something about that in the meantime.

Bass, did I mention bass?:cool:

[MartinT]

That Micro Seiki arm is lovely.

[Oldpinkman]

Hi Richard, completely agree with you here. I only wish I had changed the tonearm at the very start.

With the greatest of respect to Speedy Steve I don't think that his wonderfull ebony armboard is responsible for the huge difference in sound, I definitely think most of that's down to the arm itself.

The armbase surely helps but not to the extent I'm hearing I don't think but it's difficult to really tell cause you can't fit a stock arm on one of Steve's armboards or mabay you can, anyone done that?

Tony

As I have posted elsewhere, having done a fair bit of arm swapping on decks just recently, I am conscious how much the arm's character is audible across platforms - much more so than the TT's. I am struggling not to talk Funk all the time on the forum, but inevitably it has been mainly funk arms I have been swapping between (3 of them now, plus the mission 774 and the Technics standard and FX'd technics arm, and recently the RB300 in the mix) and it is pretty obvious how much the arm is distinctive. It's not that other factors aren't relevant or audible - I could pick the 3 platters apart easily enough - but the arm makes a big impact. Again matching, arm to board to TT are obviously important too, but I have found all the arms work on the Technics, and more to the point retain "their sound" on the Technics - which is recognisable on the other TT's I have tried them on like my PT (and others from that firm :rolleyes:)

Again - whilst you can't just look at a product and tell how it sounds - you get some clues. Products which are radically different sound different. Sometimes better ;)

[twotone]

That Micro Seiki arm is lovely.

Thanks Martin, some more photos.


http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2932_zpsbcfbef5f.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2932_zpsbcfbef5f.jpg.html)


http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2939_zpsa9a2e792.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2939_zpsa9a2e792.jpg.html)


http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2933_zpsa1736ac9.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2933_zpsa1736ac9.jpg.html)



http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2938_zpsf5029518.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2938_zpsf5029518.jpg.html)


http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag37/Tony_Cosgrove/IMG_2936_zps37876dc2.jpg (http://s1297.photobucket.com/user/Tony_Cosgrove/media/IMG_2936_zps37876dc2.jpg.html)

[Andrei]

That arm is quite something to behold; if it sounds half as good as it looks then it is really something. Not much point in me putting up pics of my Jelco any more :--<
I suggest you take your time over the arm height thing. Getting the right Stylus Rake angle is not easy - Google: "Stylus Rake Angle" + "Fremer" and you will see what I mean.

[Magna Audio]

Great pics.
I'm very pleased it worked out well.
The arm rest and arm lift are in very close proximity on the board by necessity, but much more elegant than butchering the deck with a hole and associated problems of securing it though plinth, inner plinth etc.

Re: the armboard playing a role - I agree it is bound not to be as big as an arm swap.
Others who have swapped other after market armboards for the solid Ebony and can do same arm comparisons do report some interesting improvements - and not just on SL-12X0's.

Once again beautiful arm, looks stunning :stalks: and I'm sure it sounds so too.

[twotone]

Hi guys, I bought this cable, hopefully that will sort out the connection problem.

Tony

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221312289806?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

[Audio Al]

Love the head shell design

Now you have made me want one :eyebrows:

[twotone]

That arm is quite something to behold; if it sounds half as good as it looks then it is really something. Not much point in me putting up pics of my Jelco any more :--<
I suggest you take your time over the arm height thing. Getting the right Stylus Rake angle is not easy - Google: "Stylus Rake Angle" + "Fremer" and you will see what I mean.

Thanks Andrei, not sure if I've struck it lucky here because SAE & Micro Seiki were joined at the hip in the seventies with one making amps and carts and the other making TTs and arms.

I'm currently listening to Everybody Digs Bill Evans, what a sound! Piano sounds unbelievably real and full on but the entire soundstage is huge and full of sound, even if you don't like Jazz buy this record it's stunning.

BTW, you can adjust VTA on the fly with the arm, I've currently got the arm arse up:lol:which makes the bass jump right out of the speakers:cool:

There's a great site below about SAE.

http://www.jims-sae-site.com/sae_phono.htm

[twotone]

Love the head shell design

Now you have made me want one :eyebrows:

They go for about £60 Al, you can buy them NOS on ebay.

[Arkless Electronics]

You'll need to go "Turbo" to keep up with Al there Tony :D Nice arm BTW.

[Tarzan]

Hi guys, I bought this cable, hopefully that will sort out the connection problem.

Tony

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221312289806?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649



:popcorn::popcorn:

[RobbieGong]

The MA 202 suits the Techie big time :thumbsup: Props n credit must go to Angus (Phonomac) and Alex. Phonomac was the one who fitted a 202 to Alex's Techie back around August ish 2012 and posted a few lines regarding that. It was then I first became aware of it and after some research and a number of pm's with Phonomac knew it was the one for me. As I've previously said, on the fly too made it a no brainer ! Lovely arm !
On another note, Although we have the 'Get Your Turntables out....... I really do think we need an exclusive Techie Gallery in Techiepedia, with mods noted just to showcase whats out there and how far we've come with the humble 'dj' deck. :)

[MartinT]

Nice idea, Robbie.

Why don't you start a thread? I'll contribute when I get home.

[Ali Tait]

Hi guys, I bought this cable, hopefully that will sort out the connection problem.

Tony

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221312289806?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649


Have a Jelco cable for my arm, but Bernie kindly offered to lend me his Yannis cable. An obvious and immediate improvement. Not the cheapest, but well worth it IMHO.

Regards.

[MartinT]

The Jelco red tonearm cable was not the best sounding.

[RobbieGong]

Cheers Martin, Will do :)


Nice idea, Robbie.

Why don't you start a thread? I'll contribute when I get home.

[twotone]

Have a Jelco cable for my arm, but Bernie kindly offered to lend me his Yannis cable. An obvious and immediate improvement. Not the cheapest, but well worth it IMHO.

Regards.

I've no idea if the Yannis you refer to is the same guy that I've bought this cable from Ali but if not they share the same name and they're both Greek:)

[twotone]

Thanks Jez, the next upgrade will be the Turbo phono stage, I'll be in touch:cool:

[twotone]

:popcorn::popcorn:

:popcorn::popcorn:

[Arkless Electronics]

Thanks Jez, the next upgrade will be the Turbo phono stage, I'll be in touch:cool:

You can have your standard Arkless 640P upgraded to Turbo spec for £180 ;)

[twotone]

You can have your standard Arkless 640P upgraded to Turbo spec for £180 ;)

Yep I know mate, just don't want to be without the standard one over Christmas :D

[twotone]

Well waddye know:cool:

What a bleeding difference a cable and a good connector makes, fantastic!

I've been wiggling the connector about for the past week just to listen to records properly but the new cable's connector fitted the tonearm's socket like a glove and the sound is rock solid.

Bass is very pronounced with the new cable but the cable is advertised as such.

I'm not sure if I like the sound but at least the channel imbalance has gone.

These cables are complete bargains BTW, they're very well made indeed.

BTW, I've a new amp coming tomorrow, a Rega Brio-R bought from our Dave, thanks Dave, so I'll reserve judgement re the sound until I've had a listen to the system with the new amp.

Cheers.

Tony


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221312289806?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=559720898435&afsrc=1

[Tarzan]

:popcorn:

[twotone]

:popcorn:

I don't believe in all of that cable bollox Andy but this cable is definitely showing up the bass big time however I've been listening to records since about four this afternoon with the new cable and the sound is changing pretty quickly.

For £50 the cable is a complete no brainer, the guy does a copper one for about £40 plus postage I might buy that one to see what the sound is like with that as I listen to a lot of Jazz:eek:

[MartinT]

I did say the Jelco cable is not very good. Glad you found a good one.

[Marco]

Yannis - he da man! :yesbruv:

Marco.

[twotone]

Righto, the Rega amp turned up today and whilst it needs a couple days to burn in I'm pretty pleased with the sound from the system.

The Rega is a nice amp no doubt about that and having a remote is a bit of a luxury but sadly I've lost my headphone input, not that I use headphones much but it was nice having the ability to use them.

Tony.

[oxela23]

Hi Tony, glad the arm sounds good and notice you've since made other changes - wow!

I'm still hoping to hear the Micro S in action and will take you up on your earlier offer if still on the table and more than happy to have you over here to hear whats going on. incidentally I listen to jazz too:lol:. Sadly Ive not had time to start on my techie but hoping to order and arm soon and wondered if you have details for the seller you used if theyre a dealer? I'm also looking for a stock arm and base for another 2010 project - albeit i can start the fist lol

Arm looks amazing on your TT and sounds like your building a system that suits you and the music you like.

PS Im not familiar with the brio but you could always take and out to a headphone box if the option exists?

cheers, Alex

[twotone]

Hi Alex, yep the offer still stands just pm me and we can arrange something, maybe over the holidays?

My phono amp seems to have developed a fault which is a bit unfortunate so it's going back to Jez Arkless to be repaired and upgraded to his 'turbo' mod but I won't have that back here in Glasgow until probably late January (depending on when Jez manages to do the work) so if you want to wait until then that's fine.

The Brio-R is excellent and has a decent phono stage too which is a bonus.

Kind regards

Tony