Castle Howard Mk1s

[blutonium92]

Bought a set of these of ebay a few weeks ago. Read some good things about them, they were cheap and i was working away from home and only around the corner to collect them.

Really limited information on them around the internet, these seem pretty good nick but have been stored and not used for a long time.
They sounded horrendous when i first fired them up. But slowly have got alot better, they may have been stored in a damp spot as alot of the cones have a strange staining on them.

Even though they sound ok now the highs really seem lacking so i pressume they could do with recapping. Ill also be sanding them back over the Xmas break and staining and epoxy varnishing them if i can get them to sound like there worth keeping ^^.

Cant see any numbers or references on the speakers used in them, wouldnt have thought Castle made there own speakers?

Anyways what would be decent caps to replace the originals with? There is 2 x 4.7mfd caps and 3x8mfd caps in each so im looking for good bang for buck and nothing too expensive! xD

Question for everyone aswell, i see these caps are rated at 50v, whats the difference between cap voltage ratings when regarding hifi fidelity or is there none?

A few pics for every one :). Look pretty clean inside to say they have an open port.


http://imageshack.us/a/img62/3919/njvd.jpg

Couldn't really get my head around the crossovers ><

http://imageshack.us/a/img440/3759/4asp.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img841/6664/vp52.jpg

[loo]

Wow haven't seen a pair of them in years ,lovely speakers the original Castles and yes Iam sure they made their own drivers then ,I used to live near the factory in Skipton
nice castle they are named after , well worth a visit;)
sorry cant help with your cap query though
enjoy em
Paul

[The Barbarian]

horrendous :eek: nay laddie. I have a pair, im yer Castle Acoustics man :eyebrows: be back tomorrow to sort you out.. If you don't like em i could fill my lock up with another pair :just for the record Castle prided themselves in making EVERYTHING in house

[Ali Tait]

Caps here, good but not cheap-
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_349.html

Good film caps in those values are not the cheapest.

[Reffc]

Fabulous Loudspeakers hand made in Yorkshire. Castle did in fact end up making cabinets for other high quality makes such was their reputation.

The caps you see are all electrolytics and I'd bargain that they'll be miles out of tolerance by now. You wont be able to replace like for like with modern polyprops without adding a small amount of series resistance as the equivalent series resistance of the electrolytics is much higher than that of polyprops. You can try it but you will change the voicing from the original. Cheapest way is to do a like for like replacement is to use modern electrolytics (80p a pop, use 100v rated ones) and use a bypass polyprop cap of about 1/10th the total capacitance value for the signal (series) capacitors as this will help ensure a more linear response with frequency. Cheap, easy to do and very effective. That way, you retain the original voicing and get better linearity for improved performance.

The inductors can all be left as there's nothing much wrong with them.

[brian2957]

John , Paul at Reffc has just repaired and recapped the crossovers on my old Rega EL8s and he make a fantastic job doing so . Paul was also very helpful on the phone and by email . If you need any advice on speakers and crossovers he's your man IMO. I've just temporarily connected mine up and initial impressions are very good indeed :D. I will post on this properly when I'm sure everything has come on song.

[The Barbarian]

Fabulous Loudspeakers hand made in Yorkshire. Castle did in fact end up making cabinets for other high quality makes such was their reputation.


Not just speakers either ;)

[The Barbarian]

http://imageshack.us/a/img440/3759/4asp.jpg



Has something been replaced something in there as that clear cable connector certainly aint standard :eyebrows: Towd Barbarian lad oil has the first three models Castle ever made alser a 2nd pair of the very furst ones.. As Reffic says leave the Inductors put as there is nothing wrong with them..

All my Castles have been rebuilt with Ansar 'Supersound' polrprops, Kimber 'TCX' wiring.. Something your may notice about these very early Castles they don't use Resistors on X-Overs :thumbsup:..

As for the 4mm input terminals, unbolt them from inside & they will push out of the hard plastic pod, give them a real good seeing too with chrome cleaner down the hole, pop em back in..

[Reffc]

Has something been replaced something in there as that clear cable connector certainly aint standard :eyebrows: Towd Barbarian lad oil has the first three models Castle ever made alser a 2nd pair of the very furst ones.. As Reffic says leave the Inductors put as there is nothing wrong with them..

All my Castles have been rebuilt with Ansar 'Supersound' polrprops, Kimber 'TCX' wiring.. Something your may notice about these very early Castles they don't use Resistors on X-Overs :thumbsup:..

As for the 4mm input terminals, unbolt them from inside & they will push out of the hard plastic pod, give them a real good seeing too with chrome cleaner down the hole, pop em back in..

They didn't use resistors most likely because the drive units were impedance matched. Resistors are the most benign of all crossover components and as long as correct power rating and tolerance are ok, affect the signal far less than the worst crossover component, ie the inductors. You can have a stack of resistors in a crossover for level matching and impedance flattening and they will have a minuscule impact on SQ compared with an inductor or cap which are 5% out of tolerance.

Inductance of even wirewound resistors is also a complete non-issue. Most can be regarded as low/zero inductance (I've measured all the wirewounds in my crossovers and the worst measured less than 0.05mH on a very accurate calibrated inductance meter).

[The Barbarian]

They didn't use resistors most likely because the drive units were impedance matched. Resistors are the most benign of all crossover components and as long as correct power rating and tolerance are ok, affect the signal far less than the worst crossover component, ie the inductors. You can have a stack of resistors in a crossover for level matching and impedance flattening and they will have a minuscule impact on SQ compared with an inductor or cap which are 5% out of tolerance.

Inductance of even wirewound resistors is also a complete non-issue. Most can be regarded as low/zero inductance (I've measured all the wirewounds in my crossovers and the worst measured less than 0.05mH on a very accurate calibrated inductance meter).

Aye cos they were well propar Speaker designers

:eyebrows:

[istari_knight]

In some models they would have done well to add a resistor :ner:

[blutonium92]

Caps here, good but not cheap-
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/-c-61_68_349.html

Good film caps in those values are not the cheapest.

Yeah comes out at nearly £360 of caps, 7 times what i payed for the speakers XD

[istari_knight]

Jeezus, what caps are you looking at ?! If it were me, I would replace the 4.7uF's with films & the 8uF's with modern low loss lytics...

http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/alcap-claritycap-solen-audio-capacitors/solen-scr-capacitors-400v/solen-scr-4-70uf-400v-dc-fastcap-polypropylene-capacitor-nonpolarised-reversible-series.html

http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/alcap-claritycap-solen-audio-capacitors/alcap-electrolytic-capacitors-low-loss-50v/alcap-8-00uf-low-loss-50v-dc-electrolytic-capacitor-nonpolarised-reversible-series.html

That wiring also needs sorting out, its bloody awful man !

[blutonium92]

Fabulous Loudspeakers hand made in Yorkshire. Castle did in fact end up making cabinets for other high quality makes such was their reputation.

The caps you see are all electrolytics and I'd bargain that they'll be miles out of tolerance by now. You wont be able to replace like for like with modern polyprops without adding a small amount of series resistance as the equivalent series resistance of the electrolytics is much higher than that of polyprops. You can try it but you will change the voicing from the original. Cheapest way is to do a like for like replacement is to use modern electrolytics (80p a pop, use 100v rated ones) and use a bypass polyprop cap of about 1/10th the total capacitance value for the signal (series) capacitors as this will help ensure a more linear response with frequency. Cheap, easy to do and very effective. That way, you retain the original voicing and get better linearity for improved performance.

The inductors can all be left as there's nothing much wrong with them.

Thanks for all the replies,

Sounds abit more like it ^^, but how would i be wiring in the bypass polyprop? First iv come across this idea.

Hope i can get these sounding great as i really fancy refurbishing the cabs.

[istari_knight]

Thanks for all the replies,

Sounds abit more like it ^^, but how would i be wiring in the bypass polyprop? First iv come across this idea.

Hope i can get these sounding great as i really fancy refurbishing the cabs.

http://www.russandrews.com/images/articles/CapacitorBypassing.gif

[The Barbarian]

No point. Ansars would cost hardly owt all for those speakerz....

[Reffc]

No point. Ansars would cost hardly owt all for those speakerz....

There is a very good point and that's that Castle voiced the speakers using electrolytics with higher ESR. Bypassing allows a refurb to be done economically without changing the electrical characteristics of the circuit and with a decent shout at maintaining linearity with the capacitor values.

[The Barbarian]

That don't make sence in that what is the point in bypassing a component that needs swapping out? I think people underestimate 'Supersounds' maybe because of the price {I personally find some other cheap polyprops sound nasty, to my lug holes anyway}. These caps add absolutely no signature to the sound, they just give a scence of everything seems more defined, the last thing i would want to do is alter the sound signature!! Be the best £27.00 per speaker cap replacement you'll get imho..

I know at least three people on AOS that use em..

[Reffc]

That don't make sence in that what is the point in bypassing a component that needs swapping out? I think people underestimate 'Supersounds' maybe because of the price {I personally find some other cheap polyprops sound nasty, to my lug holes anyway}. These caps add absolutely no signature to the sound, they just give a scence of everything seems more defined, the last thing i would want to do is alter the sound signature!! Be the best £27.00 per speaker cap replacement you'll get imho..

I know at least three people on AOS that use em..

It's not about adding a different sound. It's about a capacitor's behaviour with rising frequency. Electrolytics aren't as linear (ie maintain a constant capacitance with frequency) as polyprops but bypassing them with a small value helps improve linearity without sacrificing the original ESR value. If you don't maintain the same ESR value then you may end up adding resistance to the circuit. Don't under-estimate how much more resistive electrolytics are. When I check circuits, I at least have the benefit of proper measuring kit to establish the effects of trying various capacitors on the system impedance curve, so I can see the effects very clearly of using the "wrong" components (more accurately, the wrong values). You can't do this by ear. It's like shooting in the dark. The old ones need swapping out most likely because they will have dried up. I replaced some recently, identical to the ones in the photo earlier in this thread and the best was 400% out, the worst was over 1000% out.

[The Barbarian]

:trust: What i did sounds perfect with absolutly no problems..

[blutonium92]

Thanks for the replies, even if they are some what confusing XD.

Think im going to just swap like for like with new electrolytics, have a listen and then maybe trying a bypass, having a listen and then ill see ^^.

[Reffc]

Sensible plan, and cheap too!

[Canetoad]

That don't make sence in that what is the point in bypassing a component that needs swapping out? I think people underestimate 'Supersounds' maybe because of the price {I personally find some other cheap polyprops sound nasty, to my lug holes anyway}. These caps add absolutely no signature to the sound, they just give a scence of everything seems more defined, the last thing i would want to do is alter the sound signature!! Be the best £27.00 per speaker cap replacement you'll get imho..

I know at least three people on AOS that use em..

I replaced the capacitors in a set of AR28 speakers with Mundorf M-Caps and wasn't very happy with the sound afterwards at all. I replaced them with Supersounds and they now sound great!

[The Barbarian]

:thumbsup:

[blutonium92]

Caps ordered! Just got to wait till they arrive and get to it, though i think my next bit of free time might be a few weeks away.

[istari_knight]

Caps ordered! Just got to wait till they arrive and get to it, though i think my next bit of free time might be a few weeks away.

Out of interest, what one's did you go for in the end ?

[blutonium92]

Went for these
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/alcap-claritycap-solen-audio-capacitors/alcap-electrolytic-capacitors-low-loss-50v/alcap-8-00uf-low-loss-50v-dc-electrolytic-capacitor-nonpolarised-reversible-series.html

and then a bunch of these types for bypass.
http://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/alcap-claritycap-solen-audio-capacitors/solen-scr-capacitors-630v/solen-scr-0-47uf-630v-dc-fastcap-polypropylene-capacitor-nonpolarised-reversible-series.html

[blutonium92]

Finally got the caps through the post and fitted!
I havnt fitted any bypass caps yet just standard like for like replacement.

Iv put about 5 hours or so on them now and they dont sound bad at all, much improved.

One problem i have though is one speaker all 3 of the mid/bass drivers rattle. Taken them off and had a look but cant see anything wrong with them. However if i gently push down on the rubber surround it seems to mostly disappear.
I think the surrounds have been done on these as you can see a witness mark to where the old ones must have been glued. Also the cones have a large amount of staining around the outside, dont know if this is water damage or what.

Comparing them to to my 2050i's the 2050i's come out on top by a fair bit. The castles probably have a more pleasing treble but isnt as clear as the QAs and the bass in comparison is wooly and has not much definition.

[The Barbarian]

That does'nt sound right to me.. Anyhoots you flogging em then?

:eyebrows:

[blutonium92]

Maybe, ill fit the bypasses and give them a week or two and see.

I do love the warmth and tone of the them but the bass just doesn't do it for me. Even running 2.1 with an active sub.

[Reffc]

Sounds like a resonance issue which could have a number of causes. if you can send me one of the problem drivers, I 'll test it for you (cost of postage only) to rule out (or in) weakened surrounds causing voice coils to rub. Could also be a crossover point issue (but if like for like that's unlikely) or the baffle resonating. If you play the problem notes and press on the front baffle does the resonance persist?

Not sounding "right" can also be a hint at phase issues...worth checking wiring to and from the crossovers.

[The Barbarian]

Which goes back to the o/p pictoore showing the wires inside, mine was not a rats nest like that is

:scratch:

[istari_knight]

I'd guess there's been some driver work & the fiddler couldn't solder hence the cut/twist/tape connections :eek: Those connections are probably shocking... Also, you have a leaky midrange enclosure [need some silicon at the cable entry point.]

I've seen well meaning fiddlers encounter phase reversed tweeters/mids thinking it a factory error & swapping them over with dire results.

[blutonium92]

I'd guess there's been some driver work & the fiddler couldn't solder hence the cut/twist/tape connections :eek: Those connections are probably shocking... Also, you have a leaky midrange enclosure [need some silicon at the cable entry point.]

I've seen well meaning fiddlers encounter phase reversed tweeters/mids thinking it a factory error & swapping them over with dire results.

I guess they must have been able to solder because they have soldered new wire to the tweeter, but why they didnt solder wire directly onto the crossover who knows >< , looks like they just extended the original wire. Strange.

The phases are fine.

I just swapped a driver from my left side speaker with one that was buzzing on the right hand speaker and the buzzing stopped so i definitely think something is up with the driver.

@Reffc think i might take you up on that offer to check over one of the problem drivers and yeah they do seem to stop buzzing if pressed a little.

[Reffc]

I guess they must have been able to solder because they have soldered new wire to the tweeter, but why they didnt solder wire directly onto the crossover who knows >< , looks like they just extended the original wire. Strange.

The phases are fine.

I just swapped a driver from my left side speaker with one that was buzzing on the right hand speaker and the buzzing stopped so i definitely think something is up with the driver.

@Reffc think i might take you up on that offer to check over one of the problem drivers and yeah they do seem to stop buzzing if pressed a little.

No problems...contact me via PM and we can arrange something after the Christmas break. No charge...you just cover the postage :cool:

[The Barbarian]

So whats the end result?