Which reel to reel should santa bring me?

[worrasf]

Because it's Christmas and I have a lovely generous wife who wants to get me a gift I will appreciate I am thinking of asking for a reel-to-reel. :eek:
Why? Because I don't have one :)

As a lad I remember owning an Elizabethan ? 2-track and having a bit of fun but that's the sum total of my experience.
If I did acquire one it would be to play original "master" tapes as opposed to making my own recordings. I understand such a tape is likely to cost more than a machine. :stalks:

Anyway, so as I can make an informed decision as to what to look out for or whether to ditch the idea as "that way lies madness" any pointers from them that know would be appreciated.

Steve

[Arkless Electronics]

Studer A80 or A820 should be good.

[The Barbarian]

Yeh i suppose Revox/Studer for sevicability. I have loads of R+R machines but to be honest they are just too much trouble for me these days..

[worrasf]

Yeh i suppose Revox/Studer for sevicability. I have loads of R+R machines but to be honest they are just too much trouble for me these days..

As we are both domiciled in God's own country if you ever decide you want to move one on let me know.

Steve

[MikeMusic]

Revox G36

[shane]

Depends on the budget. A Revox G36 could be had for a few hundred. Alternatively, the Technics RS1500 is pretty awesome. Not cheap though...



This may be of interest:



http://www.tapeproject.com/

[hifi_dave]

Revox G36 here..:thumbsup:

[paskinn]

Yes, an excellent idea for Christmas, you clearly have a very kind wife. I have a Revox B77 and a rather rare Ferrograph Logic Seven. Both fully serviced. It sort of depends what you are going to do with the machine, if you might change your mind and record from it, the ideal spec is 15ips/7.5 ips, half track. This gives the best signal to noise ratio, lower distortion and is much easier to edit. But tape costs twice as much, compared with a quarter track, which uses half the tape width., so that you can reverse the tape and record on the other half. So you get twice the time for any given outlay. But half-track is better, ands a lot easier to use.
If you might use the machine seriously, rather than just gaze at it, get a machine which also takes 10inch spools. I have found that the best overall compromise is a half-track, high speed Revox B77. This is a seriously tough machine, which gives much of the Studer quality (same company) and still is very serviceable. the controls are a big step-up from A77 or G36, which is lovely, but less practical. Make sure the machine you buy has been well serviced. These machines can be utterly knackered. Japanese machines such as the wonderful Technics 1500, are tricky because of a lack of spares. Revox is the best compromise. Tape is still freely available but one 10inch spool can cost £30. Have fun. Don't buy a clunker.
I mention all this because once you have a machine, you might well be tempted to use it fully if just for the fun. The issue with buying master tapes (!) is availability and cost but also the format. By which I mean tape speed and half or quarter track. In the end, just make sure the machine works!

[tommy6206]

I have a Tascam 34 great machine as well as 2 akia 4000d. I would love the Technics but need all my body parts :lol:l..

[struth]

I have an AKAI 400d ....funny but the wife got me it for xmas a few years ago now as i was missing my original one.....its a pretty good machine...71/2 " 4 track..by no means perfect but sounds great and did not cost too much...alas dont get to use it as much now...

[The Barbarian]

This is a nice package.. That's a Mk.4 {mid - late 70's}

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Revox-A77-Reel-to-Reel-4-track-stereoTape-Recorder-original-handbook-extras-/141123675853?pt=UK_Consumer_VintageAudio_RL&hash=item20dba066cd

[Barry]

Because it's Christmas and I have a lovely generous wife who wants to get me a gift I will appreciate I am thinking of asking for a reel-to-reel. :eek:

As a lad I remember owning an Elizabethan? 2-track and having a bit of fun but that's the sum total of my experience.
If I did acquire one it would be to play original "master" tapes as opposed to making my own recordings. I understand such a tape is likely to cost more than a machine. :stalks:

Anyway, so as I can make an informed decision as to what to look out for or whether to ditch the idea as "that way lays madness" any pointers from them that know would be appreciated.
Why? Because I don't have one :)

Do you seriously think you are going to be able to buy/play master tapes that easily? If any are available: where do you think you will buy them from - and how much do you think you will have to pay? The sad answer is nowhere/and - an awful lot!

Even if you could procure yourself some master tapes, any semi-professional machine will not do them justice. Any master tape worth its name will have been recorded at least at 7.5 ips, if not 15 ips, and will be a half-track 1/4" tape

So, your options are possibly a Revox G36 (aka Revox 736) or A77 (high speed, half-track), both 'domestic' machines that will need a service, if not more, or a fully fledged professional machine such as one of the Studer, Philips or Telefunken machines. Expect to pay at least £1,000 for a machine in good working order. A Studer/Revox B77 might be capable, so might a Studer A62 or A80 and their successors.

As others have suggested, the provision to accept 10.5” diameter reels is an advantage, if not essential. That leaves out most ‘domestic’ machines such as the Akai (much over-rated, apart from the M8) and Tandberg (much under-rated) machines. There is a Tandberg machine on offer, here on the forum, at a very reasonable price – it would be well worth investigating.

Or there is my favourite: the Nagra IV-S, a two-track 15 ips stereo portable. A professional machine which, until recently, was the de facto choice of machine for recording film dialogue and for nature recordings. Superbly reliable, built like a Swiss ‘out house’ and Nagra will still maintain them. Which brings me to the sad, but brutal truth – analogue tape machines are no longer made! If you buy one, expect a hefty repair/service bill: spares are becoming scarce – some are still available on eBay (if you can out-bid the competition), but don’t hold your breath!

So, the very best of luck. You haven’t indicated how much your wife is prepared to spend on your Christmas present, but for anything decent and capable of making the most of master tapes, it will be a lot.

[worrasf]

Thanks for the reality check Barry that's just the sort of information I needed - looks like this might be an "Arnhem project"
Steve

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[Beobloke]

I have....a rather rare Ferrograph Logic Seven. !

I have consciously avoided getting into reel-to-reel as being a turntable obsessive is costly, space-consuming and time-consuming enough! That said, though, thanks to dabbling with Ferrograph Series 4 and 5 recorders in the past, I have to say I've always fancied a Logic 7...

[The Barbarian]

I have a 'Logic 7' it cost me an absolute fortune to rebuild..

[Spectral Morn]

Revox A77 or a B77 (easy to service and spares are still available + no drive belts to wear out) would be my suggestion but head wear could well be an issue (more than likely) and you will defo need to factor a service into the equation.

The Ebay link Andre put up looks good, but I think it will end up selling for a lot because of the extras that Sony tape switcher is worth at least 50+ on its own.

I would do a collection too rather than have it posted even if all the original boxes are there, like turntables reel to reels don't post well in my experience :(

I dipped my toe into this a few years ago and being honest I have yet to do much with any of the machines I bought, it was an itch, desire, hankering I had to scratch but the reality so far hasn't matched up with the fantasy of owning a reel to reel.


Regards Neil

[The Barbarian]

Servicing is not a problem with Revox machines, Brian Reeves in Cheshire is your man for the servicing etc..

If the heads are not that worn you can have them re-lapped..

[Macca]

I feel sorry for Santa; he's the one who has to get the bastard thing down the chimney.

[Audio Al]

I feel sorry for Santa; he's the one who has to get the bastard thing down the chimney.

Thats all wrong !

Around here he puts a card through the letterbox saying he called and no one was home

You then have to go to the local Santa center and pick it up :D:D:lol:

[Arkless Electronics]

If you can't run to the likes of a Studer A80 or A820 then a late, good condition ReVox B77 or better still PR99 would probably be your best bet.

[The Barbarian]

{Setting aside balanced in's & out's} Why do people assume a 'PR99' is a better option than a 'B77'?

[paskinn]

I have consciously avoided getting into reel-to-reel as being a turntable obsessive is costly, space-consuming and time-consuming enough! That said, though, thanks to dabbling with Ferrograph Series 4 and 5 recorders in the past, I have to say I've always fancied a Logic 7...

Took me three years to find one, then Geoff Kramer in Bexhill restored it...he's very good. After all that, a second machine turned up, just like buses. A friend looks after that.
The sad thing is, the Revox B77 is a more usable machine. But I cherish the Ferrograph. Everyone should have a reel-to-reel at some point.
BTW: look around and you can get B77s in good condition for about £500. If you go to a Revox agent it is a different matter, although you get peace of mind.

[The Barbarian]

Ferrograph are my fav as everyone knows cos i told them hundreds of times :lol:

I have two fully serviced, restored & working standard Series Seven.. one 'Super Seven' {Needs a re-build} & a 'Logic Seven' fully serviced & restored bar one missing knob!...

oh & two Ferro '307' amps, a 20/20 amp & 'STFM' Tooner.. :eyebrows:

:)

[The Grand Wazoo]

Is STFM Yorkshire internet slang for 'Shoot thy fookin' maath'?

[The Barbarian]

:harp:

[Arkless Electronics]

I have a series 7 and a 307 amp also... Much prefer my Revox and Studer kit though... A Revox integrated amp I have is very impressive!

[Barry]

One of these:

http://likecool.com/Gear/MediaPlayer/Nagra%20IV-S%20Professional%20Tape%20Recorder/Nagra-IV-S-Professional-Tape-Recorder.jpg

[Arkless Electronics]

Great apart from max reel size...

[topoxforddoc]

Steve,

15ips tape is available from the Tape Project in the USA. Price is steep (once you include the VAT and customs), but much better value than buying some dubious ‘mastertape’ on the *Bay. The Pro Studers mentioned by Jez are pretty big. There aren’t many 15ips Revox G36s, but they’re pretty compact and excellent if you like the idea of a valve R2R. I like HS G36 a lot.

Good luck

Charlie

[PaulStewart]

Steve,

15ips tape is available from the Tape Project in the USA. Price is steep (once you include the VAT and customs), but much better value than buying some dubious ‘mastertape’ on the *Bay.

Not sure what you mean by 15ips tape, all tape can go through the transport at 15, 7-1/2 or what have you, if the machine can do it. 10.5 in reels which contain 2500 ft and give you about 1/2 an hour at 15ips and this can readily be had in the UK from ProTape Now called DataStores in Percy Street London for about £50 for a reel of 1/4 x 10.5 inch RMG900. A mate of mine has just finished an album made on it and it's good stuff, easily as good as Ampex 456 and almost as good as Agfa PEM 468.

Cheers

Paul S

[topoxforddoc]

Not sure what you mean by 15ips tape, all tape can go through the transport at 15, 7-1/2 or what have you, if the machine can do it. 10.5 in reels which contain 2500 ft and give you about 1/2 an hour at 15ips and this can readily be had in the UK from ProTape Now called DataStores in Percy Street London for about £50 for a reel of 1/4 x 10.5 inch RMG900. A mate of mine has just finished an album made on it and it's good stuff, easily as good as Ampex 456 and almost as good as Agfa PEM 468.

Cheers

Paul S

Sorry Paul, I meant 15ips realtime transfers from original mastertape - www.tapeproject.com in the USA. Somehow I just haven’t got round to getting a subscription yet, but would love to.

Charlie

[337alant]

Tape decks are awesome IMO, the ultimate analogue source :eyebrows:
http://progmeister.com/nebo3-windmill-hartlepool read Steve's review the old R2R came out very well against some very stiff competition ;)

I have the following,
Tascam BR20, 2 track, an excellent tape deck and one of the last production types made.
Revox PR99, 2 track, Mk1, again excellent but this one is in need of service and calibration, jus wish could get hold of a PR99 mk3:(
Teac 4330 4 track nice deck in need of calibration but still sounds great. this is a great deck for as you can record on the four tracks individually.
Akai GX625 had this deck for a few years and they are very good really as the GX heads are glass so don't wear out like the others. only take 7" reels though
I would love to hear some of the tape project tape stuff ;)

Agree with Jez the Studer decks are the ultimate http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Studer-A807-Reel-to-Reel-in-very-good-condition-/251378313885?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Multi_Track_Recorders&hash=item3a8750aa9d

Alan

[Barry]

Steve,

15ips tape is available from the Tape Project in the USA. Price is steep (once you include the VAT and customs), but much better value than buying some dubious ‘mastertape’ on the *Bay. The Pro Studers mentioned by Jez are pretty big. There aren’t many 15ips Revox G36s, but they’re pretty compact and excellent if you like the idea of a valve R2R. I like HS G36 a lot.

Good luck

Charlie

The Revox G36 were good machines (for playback, hopeless for editing), had a better high-end response than say the Ferrographs (Series 6), but were fitted with the shoddiest of RCA connectors.

I was offered one for £25 in the early eighties - I declined.

If you can find a Studer, go for it: they were designed to be professional machines for use in recording studios and by broadcasters. The Revox was designed for domestic use only.

[Barry]

Great apart from max reel size...

48 minutes (at 7.5ips) is enough for me.

[PaulStewart]

Sorry Paul, I meant 15ips realtime transfers from original mastertape - www.tapeproject.com in the USA. Somehow I just haven’t got round to getting a subscription yet, but would love to.

Charlie

Ahh right now I get it :) I was talking to Tom from Art Audio about these guys, pricey but the best way to demo your kit! THe best machine I ever owned was a sixteen track 3M M79 Iso Loop 16 track. It blew the Studer A80 out of the water. Used to master to a 30ips A820 though, now that was quality :) Among my old master tapes I have one that was never released, It's by Rikki Sylvan who had one of the seminal punk bands "Rikki and The Last Days of Earth". He went from punk to synth rock and was Gary Numan's first producer/engineer, sadly Rikki died a few years ago and having found the tape after 20 odd years, I would like to put it out as a 180gm 12" if I can find a 30ips machine in good order.

[worrasf]

Agree with Jez the Studer decks are the ultimate http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Studer-A807-Reel-to-Reel-in-very-good-condition-/251378313885?pt=US_Pro_Audio_Multi_Track_Recorders&hash=item3a8750aa9d

Alan

Yikes! :eek: She loves me but not sure it stretches to £1500 ;)

I think the Revox A or B77's are more in Santa's price range.

There seem to be a few Akai 4000D's around - are these worth considering for a newbie to this arcane art?

Steve

[Arkless Electronics]

Yikes! :eek: She loves me but not sure it stretches to £1500 ;)

I think the Revox A or B77's are more in Santa's price range.

There seem to be a few Akai 4000D's around - are these worth considering for a newbie to this arcane art?

Steve

The Akai 4000 is not in the same league as the ones previously discussed and were a budget domestic machine. If you don't want to go the ex pro machine route then probably a ReVox B77 or Tandberg TD20A would be your best bet.

[The Barbarian]

Best keep threads like this realistic, people have habit of comparing home equipment such as this against Pro gear..

[MikeMusic]

Yikes! :eek: She loves me but not sure it stretches to £1500 ;)

I think the Revox A or B77's are more in Santa's price range.

There seem to be a few Akai 4000D's around - are these worth considering for a newbie to this arcane art?
Steve

The key must be budget and what use you will get from it
A 4000D is a good start - but - even though it's a good box a Revox will outperform it by probably more than the price difference.

- then there's the quality of the tapes and the head alignment of the recorder and the playback machine ..........

[worrasf]

Thanks all. I'm going to go for a Revox B77. I think this will give me the best bang for my buck and looks like I will be able to get it serviced and parts replaced in the future.
Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread
Steve

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