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View Full Version : The right Transport for the Bushmaster II ?



loonytunes
27-11-2013, 14:35
Does Stan (or perhaps anyone else for that matter) have any recommendations in terms of a good quality transport for the BM2?

I see on various threads that the BM2 is of a very high standard so thought a bit of care and attention should be applied to a relevant transport in order to make the most of it's abilities seeing as, usually anyway, any good quality revealing DAC is likely to show shortcomings upstream.

I have some ideas - but experience counts.

Clive
27-11-2013, 14:40
Just a thought, I don't know how good it really is but it's supposed to be pretty decent. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-end-Little-Dot-CDP-II-CD-Digital-Transport-Player-/111054043468

Wakefield Turntables
27-11-2013, 14:41
I would think that the TEAC VRDS units might be off some use to you? It's something I've been looking into.

loonytunes
27-11-2013, 14:44
Good ideas, in that case then are you saying that the BM2 will benefit in a noticeable way with a decent transport - some DACs are fairly immune - but every little bit may help with a DAC of this calibre?

Yomanze
27-11-2013, 14:53
Get a Pioneer DV-717 or DV-737. Amazing transport & can find them for under £50. Good enough for Ninanina to get rid of her Meridian transport, good enough for Jerry (JANDL100) to use as his CD transport of choice, and have seen Stupinder (HiFi Pig) using one, probably recommended by Jerry... even good async USB to SPDIF transports such as the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 were no match for the Pioneer.

What's so good about it? It doesn't impart a digital signature into the sound, is incredibly natural, clear and refined. Very low jitter outputs too.

Theta used to use similar machines as a base for their Carmen & David machines costing several thousands.

Yomanze
27-11-2013, 14:57
Just a thought, I don't know how good it really is but it's supposed to be pretty decent. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hifi-end-Little-Dot-CDP-II-CD-Digital-Transport-Player-/111054043468

I used to own one, it was too edgy, very unnatural and digital sounding compared to my Pioneer transports. Also had painfully slow operation, few seconds for the tray to open, several seconds read time, slow track skipping etc.

loonytunes
27-11-2013, 15:25
I should have pointed out that I mostly stream my music which just about takes out all standalone CD players.

So I guess my concerns are based primarily on transport quality when it comes to streaming music from FLAC files and even Spotify. Something upstream that won't pollute the BM2 or give it a hard time any other way.

Yomanze
27-11-2013, 15:46
Whole other can of worms (software, configuration differences)... :P

I would go for a HiFace 2, or if on a budget: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Native-24bit-96k-USB-to-Spdif-I2S-Converter-for-DAC/280943750141?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D286%26meid%3D3000487348633372280%26pid%3D10 0005%26prg%3D1048%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D281077 209357%26

struth
27-11-2013, 16:51
Get a Pioneer DV-717 or DV-737. Amazing transport & can find them for under £50. Good enough for Ninanina to get rid of her Meridian transport, good enough for Jerry (JANDL100) to use as his CD transport of choice, and have seen Stupinder (HiFi Pig) using one, probably recommended by Jerry... even good async USB to SPDIF transports such as the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 were no match for the Pioneer.

What's so good about it? It doesn't impart a digital signature into the sound, is incredibly natural, clear and refined. Very low jitter outputs too.

Theta used to use similar machines as a base for their Carmen & David machines costing several thousands.

I recently picked up a 717 and have to say is is excellent; nay better than that actually....got it for a song from either here or the wam....better than my denon 2900 I think.

loonytunes
27-11-2013, 18:19
I'm getting some fine and interesting recommendations here (more so disc spinners I know.. ) - but has anyone here actually found it beneficial in terms of improving the SQ from the new BM2 by marrying it up with a carefully thought out transport?

Does anyone notice an obvious step down in SQ (despite it still sounding good) for example if they hooked something less dedicated, such as a PlayStation 3 in front of it?

Of course a PS3 can both spin discs and stream music - the question is valid anyway.

Yomanze
27-11-2013, 18:53
I'm getting some fine and interesting recommendations here (more so disc spinners I know.. ) - but has anyone here actually found it beneficial in terms of improving the SQ from the new BM2 by marrying it up with a carefully thought out transport?

Does anyone notice an obvious step down in SQ (despite it still sounding good) for example if they hooked something less dedicated, such as a PlayStation 3 in front of it?

Of course a PS3 can both spin discs and stream music - the question is valid anyway.

I have used a BM1, BM2 and also a TC-7510, and spent a lot of time comparing transports, computer vs. CD etc. Too much time spent(!) and haven't done anything like that for over 6 months.

As the Bushmaster does not have a dedicated clock circuit, a good thing IMHO, it relies on the receiver chip's PLL and some signal buffering to clean things up. This makes it more sensitive to transports, very low jitter ones will mean the PLL doesn't need to work so hard, and yes, if you have the setup to reveal it then you'll get better than your PS3 or soundcard SPDIF / optical out can offer. I have a BM1, other transport-sensitive DACs etc., so just try some budget stuff, compare for yourself & would be nice to hear what you think!

A few things that I pick up with transport differences:

* 'Digitalis' - some might see this as more defined leading edge and may well wow, but in the long term it causes listening fatigue. The aforementioned Little Dot CDT, cheap consumer DVD players etc. had this sort of effect
* 'Soundstage' - more digital sounding transports also have flatter soundstages compared to my favourite players
* 'Muddy - some analogue-sounding players like the Pioneer PD-S505 are more muddy and less open in the mids than my Pioneer "DV" players. Some people could prefer the Little Dot to the Pioneer, but the Little Dot is too digital-sounding for me
* 'Nowhere Near Like DAC Choices' - Let's go with 90% DAC / 10% transport. It's the icing on the cake and isn't going to fundamentally transform a DAC

worrasf
28-11-2013, 12:11
I'm getting some fine and interesting recommendations here (more so disc spinners I know.. ) - but has anyone here actually found it beneficial in terms of improving the SQ from the new BM2 by marrying it up with a carefully thought out transport?

Does anyone notice an obvious step down in SQ (despite it still sounding good) for example if they hooked something less dedicated, such as a PlayStation 3 in front of it?

Of course a PS3 can both spin discs and stream music - the question is valid anyway.

I get equally stunning results from the BM2 whether I use CD's via Cyrus CD XT SE2/PSxR or iPod via Wadia 170i (Audiocom signature upgrade)/ Pardoe linear PSU - both with coax.
I have to say that the SQ direct from my Sony TV or DVD recorder via TOSLINK is also superb so FWIW I think the BM2 is pretty source independent.
Steve

magiccarpetride
28-11-2013, 18:30
Does Stan (or perhaps anyone else for that matter) have any recommendations in terms of a good quality transport for the BM2?

I see on various threads that the BM2 is of a very high standard so thought a bit of care and attention should be applied to a relevant transport in order to make the most of it's abilities seeing as, usually anyway, any good quality revealing DAC is likely to show shortcomings upstream.

I have some ideas - but experience counts.

I would highly recommend the sadly discontinued Logitech Squeezebox Touch. Makes a hell of a difference if I compare its feed with the Apple TV. However, the caveat is that I've only compared the same tracks using digital coax from the Touch and optical from Apple TV. Hence the differences may be attributable to the connectors (I'm using el cheapo optical compared to Stan's own digital coax, which is of superb quality).

I was planning to compare Squeezebox Touch and Apple TV using optical only, but for now it's a hassle, cause I only have one optical, and I don't feel like investing in another optical...

loonytunes
29-11-2013, 07:39
I get equally stunning results from the BM2 whether I use CD's via Cyrus CD XT SE2/PSxR or iPod via Wadia 170i (Audiocom signature upgrade)/ Pardoe linear PSU - both with coax.
I have to say that the SQ direct from my Sony TV or DVD recorder via TOSLINK is also superb so FWIW I think the BM2 is pretty source independent.
Steve

This is interesting.. the first two coax options are pretty high quality transports anyway - whereas the latter two using optical are generally not, so the optical engineering must be good (I would never normally use an optical connector).

clarkey555
03-12-2013, 16:22
hi chris I am using a rega Apollo with an atlas 75 ohm digital coax interconnect superb transport and synergises with the bushmaster like a dream.still a few around on the bay also for 200 quid or so:guitar:

StanleyB
03-12-2013, 16:38
This is interesting.. the first two coax options are pretty high quality transports anyway - whereas the latter two using optical are generally not, so the optical engineering must be good (I would never normally use an optical connector).
The TOSLINK sockets on the BM2 are of a higher spec and frequency bandwidth. Plus those sockets are fed from a dedicated 5V low noise regulator. A bit of engineering and financial overkill for something at this price range, but cost was not important in this case. I wanted to see and hear how it would perform and sound like, was pleased with the result, so I left it in the final design.

seoirse2002
03-12-2013, 17:20
Get a Pioneer DV-717 or DV-737. Amazing transport & can find them for under £50. Good enough for Ninanina to get rid of her Meridian transport, good enough for Jerry (JANDL100) to use as his CD transport of choice, and have seen Stupinder (HiFi Pig) using one, probably recommended by Jerry... even good async USB to SPDIF transports such as the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 were no match for the Pioneer.

What's so good about it? It doesn't impart a digital signature into the sound, is incredibly natural, clear and refined. Very low jitter outputs too.

Theta used to use similar machines as a base for their Carmen & David machines costing several thousands.


Excuse my ignorance...but is this a dvd player? how is it with music? I was happy with my X303ES until I seen this thread:scratch:

Yomanze
03-12-2013, 19:18
It is a DVD player but with dedicated CD player and transport circuits. A while back I was quite surprised how close it ran to the Bushmaster MK1, and whilst I don't use it as a CDP it's a real sleeper in many ways. I have 4x of them for spares and repairs... Thorsten Loesch is also a fan and a similar Pioneer setup was used by Tom Evans with his Acoustic Precision players. Yeah am gushing a bit now...

MartinT
03-12-2013, 20:00
Another vote here for either Teac VRDS or Pioneer Stable Platter transports/players.

Oh, and the Logitech Touch is superb, but off-topic.

synsei
03-12-2013, 20:21
Get a Pioneer DV-717 or DV-737. Amazing transport & can find them for under £50. Good enough for Ninanina to get rid of her Meridian transport, good enough for Jerry (JANDL100) to use as his CD transport of choice, and have seen Stupinder (HiFi Pig) using one, probably recommended by Jerry... even good async USB to SPDIF transports such as the Musical Fidelity V-Link 192 were no match for the Pioneer.

What's so good about it? It doesn't impart a digital signature into the sound, is incredibly natural, clear and refined. Very low jitter outputs too.

Theta used to use similar machines as a base for their Carmen & David machines costing several thousands.

I am about to seal the deal on a minty DV737 with it's original packaging so I will report back once it arrives and I have had a listen or three. It will be interesting to hear how it stacks up against my Arcam CD72 which is no slouch as a transport and also sounds very nice as a stand alone CDP too ;)

loonytunes
06-12-2013, 12:53
My transport of choice is going to be the now heavily discounted Yamaha CD-N500 for the simple reason:

Many say the Squeezebox Touch is an excellent transport, so my thoughts were, perhaps the Touch sounds good because it does not have a CD to spin for starters (effectively no transport) - and has a decent buffer to take on the music - and is designed and dedicated for music replay rather than being a multipurpose computer.

So thinking along those same lines, the Yamaha is a streamer (as well as a CD player mind you but that just comes with the package) also with a decent buffer, however should have the edge over the SBT design in that you don't have to worry about additional modifications such as linear power supplies etc, because the Yamaha is not only dedicated to music replay - but is also a design carefully built with audiophile sound quality in mind (whereas the SBT was designed more for the populous but it just happens to sound good).

I don't generally use CD's, but it's handy to have the facility for the odd occasion - therefore effectively I get a ready baked and 'brand new' optimised streamer which have all the ingredients to be an excellent transport, all for less than a 'used' SBT.

struth
06-12-2013, 14:18
It is a DVD player but with dedicated CD player and transport circuits. A while back I was quite surprised how close it ran to the Bushmaster MK1, and whilst I don't use it as a CDP it's a real sleeper in many ways. I have 4x of them for spares and repairs... Thorsten Loesch is also a fan and a similar Pioneer setup was used by Tom Evans with his Acoustic Precision players. Yeah am gushing a bit now...

I currently have 2 dv717's (just purchased another), and a denon 2900..both make excellent transports

magiccarpetride
06-12-2013, 17:20
Many say the Squeezebox Touch is an excellent transport, so my thoughts were, perhaps the Touch sounds good because it does not have a CD to spin for starters (effectively no transport) - and has a decent buffer to take on the music - and is designed and dedicated for music replay rather than being a multipurpose computer.

I don't think that is the reason Squeezebox Touch sounds good. And the reason I don't think so is that I also have Squeezebox Duet, which has the same attributes as you've described above, but doesn't sound nearly as good as the Touch. I would venture out to say that the improvement in sound quality is down to better hardware in Touch.

loonytunes
06-12-2013, 19:44
I don't think that is the reason Squeezebox Touch sounds good. And the reason I don't think so is that I also have Squeezebox Duet, which has the same attributes as you've described above, but doesn't sound nearly as good as the Touch. I would venture out to say that the improvement in sound quality is down to better hardware in Touch.

Hmmm, I would not liken the Duet in completely same way as the Yamaha in the sense that, to begin with it doesn't even have a decent linear power supply (same goes for the stock Touch for that matter). Looking at that small plastic box of a Duet you can see perhaps why the Touch could sound better - but then you look at the Yamaha and immediately you see a far better build than both - with the design goal in mind to for audiophile sound quality from the start. So comparing the Duet is just not going to work for me.

So apart from the seemingly obvious better build of the Yamaha streamer (and CD player) - it also does 24/192 gapless, has a BB 5101 32 bit DAC (if you don't use that wonderful Bushmaster externally), has inbuilt vTuner radio as a bonus, and can be used as a digital dock for Apple device (i.e. the DAC in the Apple device is bypassed), plus USB stick playback. And all these connectable features can be routed out through the Yam to the SPDIF output to the BM which is great!

I don't think I can go far wrong - but yes, for the same reason I am passing the SBT by I would brush the SB Duet aside too (and a Sonos for that matter). The solid build first and foremost serves as a concrete platform for everything else downstream - and that BM is downstream of course so lets serve it some good nutrients from the start to work its magic with.

John
06-12-2013, 19:55
I am using a Blue Ray player but using a external HD via USB (SSD not SATA) to play my music I have tried it as CD transport but sounds poor this way. I get great audio and can stream music and films so very happy with this set up I have moved away from Jplay as prefer the new set up. Need a screen to access files. This is very versatile and the performance may surprise a few people

loonytunes
06-12-2013, 20:02
Yes JPlay looked interesting by way of turning your PC into an audiophile music machine - but then I read the forums and saw how much further you could go with the computer build too... at that point I lost interest and wanted something that was already equivalent to a 'quiet' PC with solid state components and no fan etc - hence again the Yamaha CD-N500...

Gazjam
06-12-2013, 20:33
To me, computer audio's the way to go.
Its possible to really push how good it can be, especially with software.
More about eliminating the bad stuff than sprinkling it with magic foo dust.

That said, hardware wise, the type and quality of power supply can have the most influence..but that's getting yer geek on, and not what everyone wants! :)

Gazjam
06-12-2013, 20:35
Have you tried the new build of Jplay John?
5.2 sounds a fair bit better to me than 5.1.

I'm able to further tweak latency settings etc in Registy which shows they have optimised the code somewhat.
Works for me!

magiccarpetride
06-12-2013, 23:33
Its possible to really push how good it can be, especially with software.

True enough, but at the same time it's fairly easy to grasp that the better the hardware, the less you need to dick around with software.

Gazjam
06-12-2013, 23:51
True enough, but at the same time it's fairly easy to grasp that the better the hardware, the less you need to dick around with software.

Uhm, not necessarily Alex, not always.
Everything can make a potential improvement, just some things more so.

That's my £0.02 worth anyway. :)

StanleyB
07-12-2013, 08:19
So apart from the seemingly obvious better build of the Yamaha streamer (and CD player) - it also does 24/192 gapless, has a BB 5101 32 bit DAC (if you don't use that wonderful Bushmaster externally), has inbuilt vTuner radio as a bonus, and can be used as a digital dock for Apple device (i.e. the DAC in the Apple device is bypassed), plus USB stick playback. And all these connectable features can be routed out through the Yam to the SPDIF output to the BM which is great!
.
The CD-N500 is a brilliant piece of kit. If you got an Android of iPhone then the control app can give you the same sort of control interface as the SB Touch.

loonytunes
07-12-2013, 20:10
Yes I have one of these now and I certainly don't regret the purchase (especially at £250 - way better value than a 2nd hand SBT).

The UI isn't as good as the Logitech (I'm using the Yamaha app on the iPhone) - but then I did not expect it to be! It's certainly good enough though and very responsive - as opposed to the Marantz App which was terrible! For me the priority was SQ first and foremost, if you buy a SBT you will get a better UI with applications like iPeng for example.

I now have a solid platform to hook any DAC up with.

If you wanted to use the LMS suite with the Yam then all you have to do is to digitally connect either an Apple iPad, iPhone, iPod - and run the iPeng app in server mode - then you have an instant SBT like experience. But that's not the point of the exercise here. And you don't have a digital volume / preamp control either in the Yam (which may bother some even though it does not worry me).

loonytunes
10-12-2013, 14:21
I can still see on other forums threads about what PSU to buy for the SBT - guess I just don't have to worry about this having already got a decent regulated supply for my streamer :).

So far the unit itself sounds very good both as a standalone unit and as a transport serving some older DACs I have lying around. I just have to save my pennies for a BM2 to see if this improves things further.

If little noticeable difference then I guess that saves having an additional box stacking up.