Marco's cleaning process with new vinyl, using an RCM

[Marco]

What is true is that the dryer the atmosphere is the more likely static is - not the other way round.

Indeed, and of course it's important to remember that, because of that, the levels of static and dust experienced will vary depending upon the environment one inhabits :)

For reference, here's the process I use for cleaning new records (bearing in mind that I use a VPI RCM):

1) Ensure that one's hands, together with the platter mat of the VPI machine, are spotlessly clean before handling records, and also for placing the first record on the platter for cleaning. Fit the nozzle, used in the drying process, reserved specifically for cleaning new records, and prepare the VPI brush for use, also reserved solely for the same purpose. Ensure that both are spotlessly clean before beginning the cleaning process.

Yes, to avoid the contamination of new records, I have separate brushes and nozzles for cleaning both new and used vinyl! ;)

2) Switch on RCM, and whilst the platter is in motion, slowly 'drizzle' the cleaning solution (which I make up myself), in small amounts, onto the surface of the record, ensuring even coverage.

3) Switch off RCM, and in a circular motion, with the pristine clean brush, reserved solely for cleaning new records, gently 'work' the liquid into the record grooves, ensuring that the entire surface of the record is coated in the cleaning solution. Then allow it to penetrate into the grooves for about 10 seconds and loosen any dirt or mould release agent, located deep within the grooves, which may remain as a by-product of the vinyl manufacturing process.

4) Switch RCM back on, and whilst holding the brush vertically over the record surface, press it gently into the record grooves, as the platter is in motion, and keep it there for a two or three revolutions, allowing the brush to lift up any 'crud' that shouldn't be there, and allow it to accumulate underneath the bristles.

5) Lift the brush off of the record, and whilst the platter is still in motion, place the drying nozzle over the accumulated cleaning solution, containing the removed debris (invisible to the naked eye), switch on the vacuum cleaner and proceed to 'hoover up' all of the solution until the record is bone dry and sparkling clean. Leave the record on the platter just for a few seconds to allow it to 'air dry' before turning it over and repeating the whole cleaning process for 'Side B'.

6) Once done, [this is where the Zerostat gun comes in], there is usually a small build of static, as a result of the felt strips, fitted to the drying nozzle, passing over the record surface and making light contact with it, during the drying process. Therefore, simply 'zap' the record surface once with the Zerostat gun, thereby discharging it from any static, lift the record off of the platter and pop it into an anti-static record sleeve.

Job done! The record is now pristine clean, totally static-free, and ready for use. It will also stay that way for a very long time, unless mishandled :cool:

The same process is used for cleaning second-hand records (using the dedicated brush and nozzle for that purpose), although depending on how dirty the records are, this could affect steps 3) and 4), where more effort may be required to loosen off any 'crud', in order that it is removed thoroughly.

Marco.

[Marco]

Thought I'd move this to a separate thread of its own, should anyone wish to refer to it. Cheers! :)

Marco.

[Ali Tait]

What do you use to make up your cleaning solution Marco?

[Marco]

Hi Ali,

75% de-ionised water, 20% isopropyl alcohol and 5% own-brand supermarket washing-up liquid (such as Sainsbury's Basic range). I've found that works very well, and I can make up litres of the stuff for next to nothing!

However, I've ordered some of this to try with my second-hand records, which I think will be very good: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Enzyme-Record-Cleaning-Fluid-Concentrate-/110743521002?pt=US_Vinyl_Record_Cleaning&hash=item19c8d406ea

:)

Marco.

[The Barbarian]

Old Barbarian lad ole uses this

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RECORD-CLEANER-500ml-MY-FEEDBACK-SAYS-IT-ALL-THE-BEST-/261329055113?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cd86ced89

[Reffc]

"Archive" solution recipe as used by record libraries stateside and in the UK in bygone times:

25% (max) lab grade 99.9% pure IPA;

75% demineralised/de-ionised water;

Add to this 0.5 to 1% by volume Ilford Ilfotol wetting agent (do not use older recipes such as Kodak Photoflo as the additives could leave a residue).

Personally, I'd avoid using washing up liquid as it contains large amounts of salt but a little (as in a few drops per litre) may be ok.

[Ali Tait]

Cheers chaps, I'll have a look.

[337alant]

Ali
A small bottle of this goes a long way http://www.garrard501.com/Test_L_ART_KNOSTI.pdf I mix with triple distilled water.
I tried using the knosti stuff and I also used a mix as per Reffc above without washing up liquid but after trying this L'art du son the records are ultra clean and literally shine plus I noticed next to no static when you lift it off and when you use the brush on the record before playing it feels silky with no drag so I am impressed and will be getting another bottle when this one is gone, it really is worth the money IMO

Alan

[PaulStewart]

Sorry folks but in my opinion L'art du Son is a complete no no and I say this with a heavy heart as Martina Schoener is a friend of mine and someone whose opinion in most things audio I respect. L'Art du Son fluid is, as I understand it, organic and many people report things grow in it. Now I know it says only make up the concentrate in small amounts, but I left an unopened bottle of concentrate in a cupboard for a few months and even the concentrate had strings growing in it. I have not done any tests but the thought that I was putting a growing medium on my records fills me with dread.

BTW after a lot of research while I was working with Loricraft, we got the perfect mix of IPA, distilled water and wetting agent. Paul from Reffc almost has it right :). I can't give the exact mix in case Loricraft want to sell it at a later date and it could be considered commercially confidential information.

[Audioman]

I have L'Art du Son and if you keep to small quantities at a time and refrigerate growths are almost eliminated. As far as it's use is concerned I would strongly recommend a rinse with an alcohol based cleaner or distilled water. I only now reserve it for problem discs were it may remove some stubborn deposits. It also alters the sound in a way that is not positive in my view pointing towards some being left in the grooves. Hence a strong suggestion it is thoroughly rinsed and vacuumed off after it's done it's cleaning job. Needless to say I rarely use it finding that the standard Okki Nokki concentrate does a very good job for the cost.

[Marco]

Why bother at all buying ready-made solutions? Most are inferior to carefully made 'home brew' options, and too expensive for what they are.

My advice?

Stop acting like a cock by wasting your money, through laziness, and follow my or Paul (Reffc's) above solution recipe for great value and superb record cleaning results!! ;)


:exactly:

Marco.

[Jimbo]

Thanks for the cleaning post Marco. I have the VPI RCM 16.5 and have been using it identically to yourself except the last point - Use of Zerostat at the end. I do find my records have quite a lot of static build up especially at the beginning for some reason however a few weeks in an Antistatic Nagoka sleeve usually sorts it, however I think i will try using a Zerostat gun aswell. Any suggestions where best to get one from?

[Marco]

No worries, James. Here you go (David will look after you): http://www.mains-cables-r-us.co.uk/equipment-supports-cleaning-more/464-milty-zerostat-anti-static-device.html

For me, the Milty is ideal for that purpose :)

Marco.

[Audioman]

Thanks for the cleaning post Marco. I have the VPI RCM 16.5 and have been using it identically to yourself except the last point - Use of Zerostat at the end. I do find my records have quite a lot of static build up especially at the beginning for some reason however a few weeks in an Antistatic Nagoka sleeve usually sorts it, however I think i will try using a Zerostat gun aswell. Any suggestions where best to get one from?

Having had a Zerostat for years I have concluded they are of limited effectiveness especially at the current price (though inflation has caught this up a little). A good RCM clean removes heavy static from records followed by placement in an antistatic sleeve.

[Marco]

A good RCM clean removes heavy static from records followed by placement in an antistatic sleeve.

You obviously didn't read this bit, Paul:


6) Once done, [this is where the Zerostat gun comes in], there is usually a small build of static, as a result of the felt strips, fitted to the nozzle, passing over the record surface and making light contact with it, during the drying process. Therefore, simply 'zap' the record surface once with the Zerostat gun, thereby discharging it from any static, lift the record off of the platter and pop it into an anti-static record sleeve.


;)

Marco.

[Audioman]

You obviously didn't read this bit, Paul:


;)

Marco.

I don't get that problem due to not overdoing the number of revs. :)

[Macca]

I want to know what it is that is growing in the Art Du Son fluid...can anyone do a lab test?

[Ali Tait]

The Zerostat gun.. I have a loan of one. The problem I am experiencing is that the records are fine when I put them on the platter, it's after playing them that the static builds up. I have tried using the gun before lifting off the record, but it didn't make any difference, which suggests to me that it doesn't work.

[Audioman]

I want to know what it is that is growing in the Art Du Son fluid...can anyone do a lab test?

It's organic so if left a long time or not refrigerated (when mixed) you get mould like on food that has gone off.

[337alant]

Alan
On the Okki Nokki it states that on the final vacuming only to go round 2 full revolutions as excessive vacuming can create static
http://www.okkinokkiwinkel.nl/okkinokki-manual-uk.pdf
Alan

[337alant]

This is the content of washing up liquid, guess that's not great for your records either
• Aqua
• Sodium laureth sulphate
• Alcohol denat
• Lauramine oxide
• C9-11 pareth-8
• Sodium chloride
• 1,3-Cyclohexanedimethanamine
• PPG (polypropylene glycols)
• Dimethyl aminoethyl methecrylate/hydroxyproply acrylate copolymer cirate
• Parfum
• Geraniol
• Limonene
• Colourant

I have to buy Isopropanol, I have to buy Deionised water, I also bought Illford wetting agent and made a mix up similar to Rffec and it worked good but I don't see what the big deal is about buying L'Art du Son? IMHO its excellent and produced the cleanest records and improved sound quality IMO so its a no brainer for me, and I haven't noticed grass growing out of any of my sleeves yet LOL
I will keep it in the fridge in future if its known to going off but I hadn't heard of that before ?.
Alan

[Marco]

This is the content of washing up liquid, guess that's not great for your records either
• Aqua
• Sodium laureth sulphate
• Alcohol denat
• Lauramine oxide
• C9-11 pareth-8
• Sodium chloride
• 1,3-Cyclohexanedimethanamine
• PPG (polypropylene glycols)
• Dimethyl aminoethyl methecrylate/hydroxyproply acrylate copolymer cirate
• Parfum
• Geraniol
• Limonene
• Colourant


Indeed. In my mixture, you only put a few spots in at the end. I find it works well :)


I have to buy Isopropanol, I have to buy Deionised water, I also bought Illford wetting agent and made a mix up similar to Rffec and it worked good but I don't see what the big deal is about buying L'Art du Son?

None, Alan. If you like it, use it. Personally, I just find it overrated. Plus, it's more fun (and usually cheaper) making up your own solution.

Marco.

[stupinder]

I ought to put up a pic of my RCM (DIY i might add)...Heath Robinson doesn't even begin to explain it....

[struth]

Been using AM stuff for long and weary and never been disappointed. Alas the price of it has gone up to silly amounts IMHO, so will be looking for an alternative when the remaining 2 bottles I have are finished

[Clive]

Hi Ali,

75% de-ionised water, 20% isopropyl alcohol and 5% own-brand supermarket washing-up liquid (such as Sainsbury's Basic range). I've found that works very well, and I can make up litres of the stuff for next to nothing!

However, I've ordered some of this to try with my second-hand records, which I think will be very good: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Super-Enzyme-Record-Cleaning-Fluid-Concentrate-/110743521002?pt=US_Vinyl_Record_Cleaning&hash=item19c8d406ea

:)

Marco.
Marco, how did the ebay fluid work out vs your home made?

[Marco]

Hi Clive,

It's very good for loosening and getting rid of years of 'baked-on' crud on the dirtiest of records, but a little bit severe for anything else. It's definitely a handy thing to have in one's 'arsenal', as it were, but for normal use I stick to using my DIY formula :)

Marco.

[Clive]

Hi Clive,

It's very good for loosening and getting rid of years of 'baked-on' crud on the dirtiest of records, but a little bit severe for anything else. It's definitely a handy thing to have in one's 'arsenal', as it were, but for normal use I stick to using my DIY formula :)

Marco.
Thanks Marco, sounds useful for a few of my cruddier records. I'll give your homebrew a go now that I need some more rcm fluid.

Cheers

[SLS]

Need to progress from a Discostat to an RCM

Okki Nokki, Moth, VPI - recommendation?
Given Okki Nokki is considerable cheaper, any drawbacks?

Thanks

Steven

[PaulStewart]

Hi Steven,

All these machines work, I have had a VPI and have used Okki Nokki and Moth units, but for me the tracking vacuum type are the best and the Loricraft PRCs have the edge.

Cheers

[SLS]

Hi Steven,

All these machines work, I have had a VPI and have used Okki Nokki and Moth units, but for me the tracking vacuum type are the best and the Loricraft PRCs have the edge.

Cheers

Thanks for the advice.

I see the Loricraft PR4 has a lot more suck (is that the trade term?), but comes at a steep premium. About 3 times the cost of an Okki Nokki.

I do note your comments about L'Art du Son - I have an unused bottle that from what you say will stay unused (the drains need unblocking, so it may have a practical use after all).

Incidentally, did you get the shiny new power supply for your Composer-1? I'm waiting for Tom to glue together a reference Vinyl 1 phono stage.

Regards

Steven

[AlfaGTV]

L Art Du Son really does what it claims, and i wouldn't exchange it for anything else. Yes, it has a best before date and you need to be really clinical when mixing, storing and handling the stuff.
It's life, but not as we know it! ;)
I gave a bottle of premixed to my friend to try on his Okki, but i was cheap and used a used bottle (used for and old mixture of cleaning fluid, so nuttin worse)
Within two months some form of mold had grown in his solution and it was useless.
However, i o this doesn't have any bearing as the records are cleaned and dried and my opinion is that nothing will grow, or even stay on the surface after the cleaning.

For me, cleaning also removes any static build up and i think youre overusing the vaccum Marco!

Best regards Mike

[Marco]

For me, cleaning also removes any static build up and i think youre overusing the vaccum Marco!


Lol - not really, Mike... I guess that there's a fine line between ensuring that the record is bone dry, after completing the cleaning process (and I mean genuinely bone dry, not merely 'bone dry,' after having given the playing surface a quick glance), and that all grunge removed has been successfully sucked clean from the grooves, and minimising static build-up.

I find that my method of fastidious cleaning (and utilizing the Zerostat gun at the end to remove any small amount of static, remaining from the drying process), produces superb results - the best that I've ever achieved.

YMMV :cool:

Marco.

[AlfaGTV]

Each to his own Marco! :)

And, by the way, i recently got a tip concerning cleaning liquid:
In Sweden floors are usually made from laminated board, called click floor tiling, or "klinker" which is some form of stone, quite like slate. But also, a lot of apartments and house have floor mats which are made from vinyl, yes quite like the material used for our precious liquorice pizza's! Anyway, the cleaning material for these floors have been found to be extremely good for cleaning records too! And as you can imagine, the price is very low and availability high.
http://imageshack.com/a/img15/4407/2jlz.jpg
Tarkett Bioclean

[Marco]

Excellent tip, Mike. Thanks for sharing :)


Marco.

[337alant]

Have you considered using Johnsons baby shampoo for the detergent ?, if its not harmful to baby's eyes & skin it must be gentle on your vinyl, just a thought

Alan

[Junglefire]

I have been using an okki nokki with L'art du son (i mix 20ml with 1L distilled water) and I still get loads of crackle :( I only vacuum for two rotations. I thoroughly rinse with distilled water after wash , wait to dry, place in anti-static sleeve, use the zerostat gun. I have replaced my stylus. I use studio monitors (Adam A5x) with my LP12 (herbie mat). Is there anything I can do?

BTW I stopped using the tonar anti-static brush since it scratched all my records!!!!
BTW 2 when I rinse with distilled water the water just seems to float on the surface. Should I be using a wetting agent? I have Tetenal Mirasol 2000 antistatic.

[Audioman]

I have been using an okki nokki with L'art du son (i mix 20ml with 1L distilled water) and I still get loads of crackle :( I only vacuum for two rotations. I thoroughly rinse with distilled water after wash , wait to dry, place in anti-static sleeve, use the zerostat gun. I have replaced my stylus. I use studio monitors (Adam A5x) with my LP12 (herbie mat). Is there anything I can do?

BTW I stopped using the tonar anti-static brush since it scratched all my records!!!!
BTW 2 when I rinse with distilled water the water just seems to float on the surface. Should I be using a wetting agent? I have Tetenal Mirasol 2000 antistatic.

You are doing something wrong. I would guess running the vac until records are beyond just dry. Maybe not using enough fluid ? Two rotations recommended, 3 max. I have had no need to use my Zerostat since buying an Okki Nokki. A second clean should remove any remaining static in bad cases. Make sure the L'art du son is thoroughly rinsed off. Wetting agent is not necessary. Also what brush are you using? I have found the MFSL brush is better than the supplied one which should still be used for scrubbing really dirty disks. I generally use the standard Okki Nokki concentrated cleaner and L'art du son for 'special' cases. Are you talking about new or used records when referring to persistent crackle?

Paul.

[Junglefire]

These are my exact steps:

1. place the record on the okki nokki. Take off the dust with cloth which came with AM record cleaner spray. Then wet with L'art du son solution. I mixed 20 ml of L'art du son with 1L of distilled water for my solution.
2. Hold the MFSL brush gently on the record for 10 rotations clockwise and 10 anti clockwise.
3. Hoover up using 3 rotations.
4. Rinse with distilled water (aqua bidets) by holding a tonar wet goat brush (which has only been used with distilled water) for 10 rotations clockwise and 10 anti-clockwise on record.
5. hoover up.
6. Repeat step 4.
7. place the record on the turntable and wait 10 minutes before playing. And shoot 4 times with zerostat.I do this while the record is on the TT. The tt is obviously switched off.
8. clean the stylus with AT stylus cleaning formula and dip into onzow zero dust (2x).
9. switch on preamp and monitors and switch on the tt.
10. prepare for crackling :(


Where am I going wrong? The records are all brand new. There are tiny scratches on them caused by the tonar anti-static brush that I was using :(

[Audioman]

These are my exact steps:

1. place the record on the okki nokki. Take off the dust with cloth which came with AM record cleaner spray. Then wet with L'art du son solution. I mixed 20 ml of L'art du son with 1L of distilled water for my solution.
2. Hold the MFSL brush gently on the record for 10 rotations clockwise and 10 anti clockwise.
3. Hoover up using 3 rotations.
4. Rinse with distilled water (aqua bidets) by holding a tonar wet goat brush (which has only been used with distilled water) for 10 rotations clockwise and 10 anti-clockwise on record.
5. hoover up.
6. Repeat step 4.
7. place the record on the turntable and wait 10 minutes before playing. And shoot 4 times with zerostat.I do this while the record is on the TT. The tt is obviously switched off.
8. clean the stylus with AT stylus cleaning formula and dip into onzow zero dust (2x).
9. switch on preamp and monitors and switch on the tt.
10. prepare for crackling :(


Where am I going wrong? The records are all brand new. Except for micro scratches caused by tonar anti-static brush they look great.

It's a mystery on the face of it. It's possible the Tonar brush has done more damage and lots of micro scratches can cause crackle as I discovered with some records that stuck to the inner sleeve when new. I suggest re-clean with Okki Nokki fluid or similar (or make up your own with isopropyl similar to Marco's formula). If this doesn't work those records may be for the bin I'm afraid. BTW 10 revs each way with the MFSL brush is a bit excessive.

Paul.

[Junglefire]

Yes, fuck that tonar brush. I am listening to astral weeks at the moment. I never used the brush on this one, haven't cleaned it either. It cracks and pops now and then, but nothing as bad as the other records that have been sodomized by the tonar brush. I am getting two new records tomorrow. I will see what they sound like before I clean them and post clean.

[Dunluce978]

The cleaning solutions with IPA and distilled water are what I use but not the washing up detergent. Instead I use about 3-4 drops of dish washer "rinse aid" which performs the same job as the photoflo and Ilfoto stuff but is a lot cheaper. The only purpose of the photographic solution or this addition is to break the surface tension of the liquid and allow it to flow properly into the grooves.

[The Grand Wazoo]

But washing up liquid is also an excellent surfactant - that's why some people use it. Not so the records will have the Fairy liquid finish.

[Gordon Steadman]

Has anybody else tried the glue method??

I'm still not sure I could do this to an LP but I dragged an old single down from the loft this afternoon. It had been out of its cover and was covered in dirt, builders dust and the old spider's web:eek:

Slapped some PVA on and left it out in the sun for an hour. The glue then peeled off in one piece and left one pristine looking surface. Popped it on the PL112D in the bedroom (wasn't going to risk the EPC205) and it sounded fine. It showed how well it worked as, when the cartridge hit the run out groove where the glue didn't reach, there was a sudden 'orrible noise, pops, graunches you name it. You can feel the grooves on the glue so it appears to reach down quite well.

I will definitely try this on the 78s before I record them.

[The Barbarian]

:eek: do you think the cheaper thinner PVA would be better?

[Gordon Steadman]

:eek: do you think the cheaper thinner PVA would be better?
I suppose if it were a bit thinner it might dig deeper. PVA is water soluble so maybe some distilled to be on the safe side. Worth a try for really grubby boot sale finds!!

[The Grand Wazoo]

It's been discussed several times on AoS Gordon. Do a search for PVA, but also for wood glue.
I think the general feeling is that, while it works to some degree, it' not worth the faff - and it really is a faff if you've got a lot to do. It takes a lot of time and it's not actually very cheap when you work it out. My own worry is that having unprotected records lying around in various states of drying is a recipe for getting them badly scratched.

[Gordon Steadman]

I think the general feeling is that, while it works to some degree

I think this is the important bit. I wonder how well it works compared with water based ideas.

Whilst it is a bit of a pain to do, the glue is very easily available and for someone like me who always has gallons of the stuff in the workshop, its less of a problem than getting the other ingredients together.

Anyway, this is a bit of a thread drift, sorry about that but I found it surprising how clean the record was after treatment.

[ekymetal]

I am a carpenter/joiner by trade.
My opinion is PVA glue just seems a harsh way of cleaning.
Its design is not for record cleaning.
There is no way i would use it, it makes a hell of a mess even on timber!
But as i said THIS is only my opinion.
cheers
EK

[walpurgis]

I use a belt sander and a chisel for stubborn lumps of cack. Seems to work a treat. :lol:

[ekymetal]

I use a belt sander and a chisel for stubborn lumps of cack. Seems to work a treat. :lol:

Does this method remove static? lol:eek:

[ekymetal]

Quoted from a email i recieved.

and that took about 15 hours to dry!


:scratch:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12596&d=1401664312and that took about 15 hours to dry!

[high.spirits]

Hi Marco

What brushes do you use as there are so many options out there to choose from?

Thanks
Martin


Indeed, and of course it's important to remember that, because of that, the levels of static and dust experienced will vary depending upon the environment one inhabits :)

For reference, here's the process I use for cleaning new records (bearing in mind that I use a VPI RCM):

1) Ensure that one's hands, together with the platter mat of the VPI machine, are spotlessly clean before handling records, and also for placing the first record on the platter for cleaning. Fit the nozzle, used in the drying process, reserved specifically for cleaning new records, and prepare the VPI brush for use, also reserved solely for the same purpose. Ensure that both are spotlessly clean before beginning the cleaning process.

Yes, to avoid the contamination of new records, I have separate brushes and nozzles for cleaning both new and used vinyl! ;)

2) Switch on RCM, and whilst the platter is in motion, slowly 'drizzle' the cleaning solution (which I make up myself), in small amounts, onto the surface of the record, ensuring even coverage.

3) Switch off RCM, and in a circular motion, with the pristine clean brush, reserved solely for cleaning new records, gently 'work' the liquid into the record grooves, ensuring that the entire surface of the record is coated in the cleaning solution. Then allow it to penetrate into the grooves for about 10 seconds and loosen any dirt or mould release agent, located deep within the grooves, which may remain as a by-product of the vinyl manufacturing process.

4) Switch RCM back on, and whilst holding the brush vertically over the record surface, press it gently into the record grooves, as the platter is in motion, and keep it there for a two or three revolutions, allowing the brush to lift up any 'crud' that shouldn't be there, and allow it to accumulate underneath the bristles.

5) Lift the brush off of the record, and whilst the platter is still in motion, place the drying nozzle over the accumulated cleaning solution, containing the removed debris (invisible to the naked eye), switch on the vacuum cleaner and proceed to 'hoover up' all of the solution until the record is bone dry and sparkling clean. Leave the record on the platter just for a few seconds to allow it to 'air dry' before turning it over and repeating the whole cleaning process for 'Side B'.

6) Once done, [this is where the Zerostat gun comes in], there is usually a small build of static, as a result of the felt strips, fitted to the drying nozzle, passing over the record surface and making light contact with it, during the drying process. Therefore, simply 'zap' the record surface once with the Zerostat gun, thereby discharging it from any static, lift the record off of the platter and pop it into an anti-static record sleeve.

Job done! The record is now pristine clean, totally static-free, and ready for use. It will also stay that way for a very long time, unless mishandled :cool:

The same process is used for cleaning second-hand records (using the dedicated brush and nozzle for that purpose), although depending on how dirty the records are, this could affect steps 3) and 4), where more effort may be required to loosen off any 'crud', in order that it is removed thoroughly.

Marco.

[walpurgis]

Does this method remove static? lol:eek:

Oh yes. It removes absolutely everything! :eyebrows:

[Marco]

Hi Marco

What brushes do you use as there are so many options out there to choose from?

Thanks
Martin

Hi Martin,

I've continued to use the one that came with my VPI 16.5 RCM. The bristles on it are very stiff, which during cleaning, is essential for deep penetration of the record grooves. Highly recommended! You can buy spare VPI brushes from Analogue Seduction, although unfortunately they aren't cheap.

Hope that helps :)

Marco

[Jimbo]

Hi Martin,

I've continued to use the one that came with my VPI 16.5 RCM. The bristles on it are very stiff, which during cleaning, is essential for deep penetration of the record grooves. Highly recommended! You can buy spare VPI brushes from Analogue Seduction, although unfortunately they aren't cheap.

Hope that helps :)



Marco

Hi Marco,I have the same VPI machine as yourself and do use the VPI brush that was supplied with it. However a tip from a friend, who also uses a VPI, suggested using a piece of draught excluder brush, the type you fix to the bottom of a door! I have the aluminium strip with brush attached. You can cut pieces to the length you require and you get quite a lot out of a strip.
The brush I find is perfect and in fact I use it a lot more than the VPI brush. Works very well.

SPPV extremely good if you look at the price of brushes :)

[Marco]

Excellent tip, James - I like it and will look into it further :thumbsup:

Marco.

[The Grand Wazoo]

I've tried all sorts of brushes and things like brushes including paint pads and have never been satisfied. As for the draught excluder, well that's the stuff that the brush that comes with the Moth RCM is made of. I think that it's too stiff until it's been thoroughly soaked in the fluid. I was never happy with it, fearing that it may be causing damage. Bought a VPI brush to use instead.

[Jimbo]

I've tried all sorts of brushes and things like brushes including paint pads and have never been satisfied. As for the draught excluder, well that's the stuff that the brush that comes with the Moth RCM is made of. I think that it's too stiff until it's been thoroughly soaked in the fluid. I was never happy with it, fearing that it may be causing damage. Bought a VPI brush to use instead.

The draught excluder brush I use is less stiff than the VPI brush. What is really good is the fact you can rummage round loads of DIY stores and get the exact stiffness you want.

Mine has longer bristles than the VPI and is more flexible so it gets into the grooves better.

[The Grand Wazoo]

That's good to know.

[high.spirits]

Thanks guys very useful information.

I will have a look at some of our local DIY stores and may buy a VPI brush for reference.

Thanks again
Martin

[PaulStewart]

In my experience, using the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and a fluid with the correct low surface tension that actively flows into the grooves is the best way to go. The brush needs to by less hard than the vinyl.

Failing a brush, then a micro-fibre cloth should be used.

[Jimbo]

In my experience, using the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and a fluid with the correct low surface tension that actively flows into the grooves is the best way to go. The brush needs to by less hard than the vinyl.

Failing a brush, then a micro-fibre cloth should be used.

That's why I use a piece of draught excluder brush. Softer than vinyl and just the right amount of flexibility for the job.

[Oddball]

Some super tips on here folks!!
I am due in for an op in a day or 2 and have been getting together the germs of an idea to make my own RCM
An old Columbia wind up gramaphone and a modified wet and dry hoover , and a Knosti ,and away to go:mental:

[Rush2112]

Microfibre cloth good idea I will give it a try, need to make some solution up too !

[337alant]

In my experience, using the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and a fluid with the correct low surface tension that actively flows into the grooves is the best way to go. The brush needs to by less hard than the vinyl.

Failing a brush, then a micro-fibre cloth should be used.

Paul just cleaned a couple of LPs with your right stuff cleaning fluid and I am impressed it is very nice
I didn't use any distilled water rinsing after just the fluid in both directions vacuum then dry for 10 mins
Do you recommend rinsing after cleaning ?

Alan

[Ali Tait]

I've used Paul's fluid for a while now, never rinsed.

Best I've tried so far.

[Marco]

+1 (with bells on). IMO, there is no equal! :)

Marco.

[PaulStewart]

Hi All,

Glad you like "The Right One" fluid, Alan no don't rinse, there is no need to and as far as I can tell there is more chance of static returning with rinsing. As i posted in Trade Impressions, I now have stock of the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and the natural fibre dry brush too. The are in stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool) but PM me andthere is a deal for AoS members on these as well as the fluid.

Cheers

[MCRU]

Yes this is deffo the best record cleaning fluid bar none, well done chief! :)

[AlfaGTV]

Was wondering why the label says " make sure the record is fully dry before playing..."?
/Mike

[PaulStewart]

Was wondering why the label says " make sure the record is fully dry before playing..."?
/Mike

Mike, quite a few people use the fluid for hand cleaning with micro fibre cloths, in fact we supply the stuff in a kit, with a micro fibre cloth to Reckless Records which they sell to their customers. If the record has not been fully dried then any dust falling on it *could* form a sludge and set in the grooves. This is highly unlikely but with these things, you have to cover every base.

In fact any residue left after cleaning, unless it was enough to pool, would fully evaporate in a few seconds.

Cheers

[struth]

The only place I find any damp residue after cleaning is at the very end of the dead wax where the vacuum misses a bit but a few wafts in the air usually clears it.

[AlfaGTV]

Okay, that makes some sense! ;) Are you saying a microfibre cloth has the necessary length of fibres to reach into the groove? And of course not leave any residue?

/Mike

[Ali Tait]

I don't think any brush has fibres small enough to reach the bottom of the groove. All brushes can do is remove surface dust IMHO.

[jaym481]

As i posted in Trade Impressions, I now have stock of the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and the natural fibre dry brush too. The are in stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool) but PM me andthere is a deal for AoS members on these as well as the fluid.

Cheers

Is the natural fiber brush only for dry dusting? I have the nylon one for my PRC4, but always wonder if there's something better - I suppose not, since all the brush does is ensure the fluid gets in the groove.

I wonder how the natural fiber brush would compare to my old Decca CF brush that I've been using for yonks?

[PaulStewart]

Is the natural fiber brush only for dry dusting? I have the nylon one for my PRC4, but always wonder if there's something better - I suppose not, since all the brush does is ensure the fluid gets in the groove.

I wonder how the natural fiber brush would compare to my old Decca CF brush that I've been using for yonks?

Hi Jay,

I only reccomend the natural fibre brushes for dry cleaning. Like you I used a CF brush for many years, but when I was at Loricraft when we were offered one to rebadge we also heard about CF damaging records and in one case it was alleged that a carbon fibre that had become jammed in the grove of a record had chipped a stylus. Now I was never sure this was true, but CF is hard enough to do this, so we looked around for a soft alternative that still wipe of dust etc. The natual fibre one was the best I found and in normal use, i.e. just whiskingb off dirt, did not seem to rebuild static after several uses following a wet clean.

[struth]

Funny you say that Paul but one of the fibres from my carbon fibre brush came off and stuck in a groove. I had the devil of a time getting it out again and nearly missed it. fortunately I inspect them under a high power lamp after doing it.

[Ali Tait]

I use a goat's hair brush, best I've found so far.

[337alant]

Hi All,

Glad you like "The Right One" fluid, Alan no don't rinse, there is no need to and as far as I can tell there is more chance of static returning with rinsing. As i posted in Trade Impressions, I now have stock of the Loricraft type soft nylon brush and the natural fibre dry brush too. The are in stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/rebirthofthecool) but PM me andthere is a deal for AoS members on these as well as the fluid.

Cheers


OK Thanks Paul
Did a couple more today and the results are excellent thanks

Alan

[PaulStewart]

Funny you say that Paul but one of the fibres from my carbon fibre brush came off and stuck in a groove. I had the devil of a time getting it out again and nearly missed it. fortunately I inspect them under a high power lamp after doing it.

That's the scenario Grant, round comes the ultra hard carbon fibre and bags into the stylus and even if it doesn't damage the diamond, it could be ripped out and damage the groove.


I use a goat's hair brush, best I've found so far.

The natural fibre brushes I sell are the goat's hair ones that were sold as Loricraft/Garrard

[diviy]

I am using a £6.99 facial natural brush from Boot`s works like a charm ;)

[Ali Tait]

Probably the same one I'm using. :-)

[Gazjam]

And what do you guys use for your vinyl? :D

[Macca]

LOL

Not sure about a brush not getting into the groove. The end of a fine hair on a brush is smaller than the diamond stylus. surely?

[PaulStewart]

LOL

Not sure about a brush not getting into the groove. The end of a fine hair on a brush is smaller than the diamond stylus. surely?

The Loricraft type brushes have a width that is less than that of the groove so the do go into it, as do most carbon fibre ones. That's why it is so important to have a materiel less hard than the vinyl.

[Ali Tait]

Would have to be pretty small to get to the bottom of the groove, as that's where the majority of the dust/dirt would be I'd have thought.

[Ali Tait]

And what do you guys use for your vinyl? :D

:lol:

[PaulStewart]

Would have to be pretty small to get to the bottom of the groove, as that's where the majority of the dust/dirt would be I'd have thought.

By and large you need to get the fluid below the top of the groove so it can spread into them. On the other point if you look at thr grooves under a microscope, a lot of the dirt is actually held in the groove walls, not just at the bootom.

[Ali Tait]

Yep, I imagine dry brushing would not get rid of this.

[jaym481]

It was always my understanding the the fluid did the work. The brush is just to make sure it gets into the grooves.

[Ali Tait]

Yes, But that's not what I'm talking about, I mean brushes used before playing a record.

[SLS]

For the uninitiated. An excellent video from Mark Baker.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUbC2ANXRqY

Yes, he uses L'Art Du Son, but he doesn't have mushrooms growing off his records.

[SLS]

It was always my understanding the the fluid did the work. The brush is just to make sure it gets into the grooves.

The brush does not go in the grooves, nor does it have to or should it. See video just posted.

[daytona600]

Brushes are so 20th century Welcome to the 21st century


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkfiuh5kHhU

[PaulStewart]

Interesting video Scott, factually it leaves a little to be desired however. To start at the end of the process, there is little better than cold air, unless it has been negatively ionised for promoting static, you might have seen desert lightning and the like. Secondly, I don't think there is any suggestion that the idea is for the brush to reach to the bottom of the groove. The idea is to get the fluid into the top of the groove and spread it evenly. Capillary action combined with the correct wetting agent will carry and indeed force the fluid to the bottom of the grooves, in fact research has shown that the absorbent dry nature of a lot of the dust particles will mean that fluid, with the correct degree and type of wetting agent will easily travel throughout the groove. Likewise to go back to the question of static, a properly designed fluid will be anti static and will not build up static on the record.

Here are some microscope pics of the same record before and after cleaning with a Loricraft machine

Before
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13652&d=1418401919

After
http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13653&d=1418401936

These were made independently of either Loricraft or myself and the whole video is on the net. I doubt it is possible for any RCM to do better than this.

Also, there is some discussion as to the effect of ultrasonic bombardment on vinyl with some thinking that molecules must be stripped away by the process. I have seen no published data to the contrary. On the other hand we can show that using "The Right One" fluid after 100 cleaning cycles on a Loricraft PRC4 there were no deleterious effects and after 1000 wetting and drying cycles to a strip of recording vinyl there was no de-vinylising.

Yes brushes are indeed 20th century and so are quality vintage HiFi, the LP record, and the electric guitar all things that make music great.

Cheers

[MCRU]

Trade members touting their wares should be in the "trade section" so visit it guys, nice one! :)

[MCRU]

WTF who is this? :lol:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13003&d=1408186254

[PaulStewart]

I'm not touting for business David I'm just refuting a statement made about one technology touted by someone who appears to have an axe to grind, in my opinion brushes and vacuums rule :) That's my profile pic mate, bit out of date as I've now lost three and a half stone. My listeners haven't complained though in fact I have been asked for a signed print..... Or was that a signed cheque :lol:

[MCRU]

I'm not touting for business David I'm just refuting a statement made about one technology touted by someone who appears to have an axe to grind, in my opinion brushes and vacuums rule :) That's my profile pic mate, bit out of date as I've now lost three and a half stone. My listeners haven't complained though in fact I have been asked for a signed print..... Or was that a signed cheque :lol:

Wasn't meaning you chief! I rarely visit the AOS these days as hounded off for being over enthusiastic which was ill perceived as pushy salesmanship!

[PaulStewart]

Wasn't meaning you chief! I rarely visit the AOS these days as hounded off for being over enthusiastic which was ill perceived as pushy salesmanship!

Ahh! that's why you didn't answer the PM I sent you :) I'm turning Safari off now as I have a show to record on this Mac

Cheers

[SLS]

WTF who is this? :lol:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=13003&d=1408186254

It's Paul trying to look as happy as you.

The Furutech brush is a winner except the handle fell off and I haven't got any chewing gum.

[struth]

Paul's cleaning fluid is top notch.......but being a tight wad, I am now making my own :doh:

[Marco]

Wasn't meaning you chief! I rarely visit the AOS these days as hounded off for being over enthusiastic which was ill perceived as pushy salesmanship!

A rather ‘fanciful’ view of events, if ever there was one, so best not go there! Besides, you’re still here, so obviously you haven’t been ‘hounded off’ ;)

Marco.

[jaym481]

The brush does not go in the grooves, nor does it have to or should it. See video just posted.

That's what I said.

[CageyH]

Having just ordered an Okki Nokki, I found this thread really useful.

[CageyH]

How effective is the Milty Zerostat in this process?
Is it worth the investment?

[Stratmangler]

Static can be an issue and the Milty Zerostat does work.
It is a bit pricey.
This would be just as effective http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/stat_trap_e.html

[struth]

Static guns are great. The one I have is old but still works but intend getting a zerostat next

[walpurgis]

They work quite well if you put one against somebody and pull the trigger. Zap! Ouch! :D

[MCRU]

Static guns are great. The one I have is old but still works but intend getting a zerostat next

I sell about 10 a week and for the money they are a no brainer, £50 doesn't even buy a decent meal out these days! Or a decent bottle of vintage port! :lol:

[struth]

I'll come to you then. Didn't know you sold em

[loonytunes]

After reading many threads and watching many YouTube vids, I've come to the conclusion that the below link seems to be both very effective and simple ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3WCUH9f-_g


No RCM required.
No vacuuming - what's left will evaporate
No using the sink and running water.
In fact no need for distilled water either (just the fluid).
No risk of using anything home-brew.



What do you think?

[AlfaGTV]

I think, you'll improve the record, but it still wont measure up to the standard you'll reach with vacuuming off the excess fluids and dissolved grit.
Don't think it'll do any harm though...
And, i would prefer this method on an old turntable. It's a lot easier when the disc is turning by itself, or manually turned.
Theres often the argument of "i dont use a platter on a RCM as all the crud from the uncleaned side will infest the freshly cleaned siden on turning over".
Nahhh! The part of the disc that comes into contact with the occasional dust bug is not where the needle thrives.
Besides, just swipe the platter off with a moistured microfibre cloth or similar.

Mike

[Macca]

Not a very good method at all. In fact looking at some of the other 'cleaning' vids on utube there are an awful lot of people out there in denial about record cleaning.

All that method will do is move the crud around the record, the amount that will lift off with the brush will be minimal. Yes it will clean fingerprints and some surface dust away but these things make very little improvement to the sound since it is the debris in the grooves that causes clicks and pops and general background noise. I notice he doesn't give us a before and after listen to the record, unlike the bloke who uses a similar method but with window cleaning spray. (His record is improved but still unacceptably noisy after treatment).

To properly clean a record you need to suspend all the crud in solution and then vacuum it off. There is no more effective way of doing it apart from perhaps ultra sonic.

[Oldpinkman]

This is probably as good a place as any to publicly thank Ali tait for the tip-off about the phk rcm. Arrived today. Awesome. Maybe not a piece of furniture like a nitty-gritty but does the job at least as well as the moth I used before.
The big attraction, apart from the under $200 price tag, and fabulous customer service? It's so tiny. It just tucks out of sight in any cupboard. The moth is a big ugly lump to have in the house.
And combined with a Dyson hoover the record is dry in one revolution. Very impressed. :)

[The Barbarian]

Very interesting Richard i may have to look into one. However having a big Record cleaning machine is all part of the Hi-Fi Enthusiast Equipment bragging Syndrome innit?

[Tim]

. . . However having a big Record cleaning machine is all part of the Hi-Fi Enthusiast Equipment bragging Syndrome innit?
Only if you tell everyone you have one and how wonderful it is ;)

:sofa:

[Marco]

Timbo, since it's really good for removing (deeply-ingrained) ‘skidders' from adult nappies and/or puke stains from bibs and Baby-Gros [so I’m told], I’m surprised you don’t have one! :lol: :ner:

Marco.

[Tim]

Tis' on my shopping list for the future if I'm being honest ;)

[Marco]

:D :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Tim]

Actually bought two new LPs this week, still don't have anything to play them on though :scratch:

[The Barbarian]

:lolsign:

[loonytunes]

Not a very good method at all. In fact looking at some of the other 'cleaning' vids on utube there are an awful lot of people out there in denial about record cleaning.

All that method will do is move the crud around the record, the amount that will lift off with the brush will be minimal. Yes it will clean fingerprints and some surface dust away but these things make very little improvement to the sound since it is the debris in the grooves that causes clicks and pops and general background noise. I notice he doesn't give us a before and after listen to the record, unlike the bloke who uses a similar method but with window cleaning spray. (His record is improved but still unacceptably noisy after treatment).

To properly clean a record you need to suspend all the crud in solution and then vacuum it off. There is no more effective way of doing it apart from perhaps ultra sonic.

It's not perfect I know - but it's the next best method without the need to vacuum. I personally would be happy to use this technique with collectable records. This method also looks better than using a spinclean contraption.

[The Barbarian]

What the hell does 4/5th's mean? :D Looks like 2/3rd's to me

[CageyH]

What do you guys use to dispense the cleaning product?
Just a "squeezey" plastic bottle?

[AlfaGTV]

I use old caps from Fairy liquid washup bottles. They work perfect for me and fits just perfect on the 1/2 litre bottles of aqua purificata i buy from the pharmacy.
Have tried flower shower bottles and chemical laboratory dispenser bottles, both were worse than the flip top corks.
/M

[struth]

i use a finger press atomiser bottle. works a treat. i just shield label with something as it rotates. easy and effective.

[struth]

As said elsewhere i finally got round to making up my first small batch of my recipe record cleaning fluid. its expensive stuff so as i had most of the ingredients to hand thought i would try it.
I cleaned 2 records as a trial a few days ago and finally got round to playing them.

well, I can report that the discs sound great. especially the old bluegrass one. its an old 1963 monoaural recording on the Epic label. its never sounded better.
I'm a happy bunny:D

[Marco]

As said elsewhere i finally got round to making up my first small batch of my recipe record cleaning fluid. its expensive stuff so as i had most of the ingredients to hand thought i would try it.


So how does it taste, then? :D

Marco.

[Jazid]

I have at last made up my own mix to Paul's (ReffC) recipe or thereabouts. I made two mixes:
25/75 plus .5%
40/60 plus .5%
IPA / deionised & distilled / Ilfotol
I use .5% Ilfotol as this is the minimum recommended by the manufacturer, and it just starts to 'soap up' when the records are scrubbed.

I used this instead of my out of date l'Art du Son fluid in a big pump Loricraft. The l'AdS fluid had done alright, and was not evolving new life forms or growing filaments or anything of the kind, just a bottle of clear fluid beyond its best before date mixed and used as required.

Four observations: 1. The home brew fluid spreads much better across the surface and into the grooves with less 'dry grooves'. 2. There is much less fluid spilled off the side of the records. 3. The amount of fluid used per record is significantly higher, maybe becuase it stays on the records or maybe because it coats the surface so much more evenly. 4. The records come up much much quieter than with my l'AdS fluid.

Delighted, I shan't be going back. I have no beef with the l'AdS fluid, it did fine and it was beyond its best before date, but the home brew does so much better, the 25% mix is perfect for nice nick vinyl whilst the 40% helps enormously on those grimy treasures that my charity shop habit throws up.

It takes an hour of ones time to get the bits off amazon and then mix them up when they arrive. I have 5L of cleaning fluid, enough for an army of vinyl, and I'm about £40 down. Of that I will still have 95% of the Ilfotol left once the fluid is gone, so that's about 500 albums really clean for £31 I guesstimate, or 6p an album. Thanks all for the advice in this thread :)

Here's a snap of the fluid on the rcm to give an idea:

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb376/fgcouk/AN-E/spreading-RCM-fluid.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/fgcouk/media/AN-E/spreading-RCM-fluid.jpg.html)

[struth]

The dose of ilfatol should be about 5 mil max to a litre. that way it wont froth.its all you need to break surface tension.

[struth]

So how does it taste, then? :D

Marco.

its quite sharp...also takes hair off your chest:eek:

[karma67]

The dose of ilfatol should be about 5 mil max to a litre. that way it wont froth.its all you need to break surface tension.

Ah me thinks you following the London jazz club formula.

[Marco]

its quite sharp...also takes hair off your chest:eek:

Nice one, dude… Does it keep your thingy ‘standing proud’ for longer, too? :D

Marco.

[struth]

Nice one, dude… Does it keep your thingy ‘standing proud’ for longer, too? :D

Marco.

nope! ...but it sure is clean:eyebrows:

[struth]

Ah me thinks you following the London jazz club formula.

its similar but not quite the same.:eyebrows:

[Marco]

nope! ...but it sure is clean:eyebrows:

Hehehehe… Now try it with those ingrained ‘skidders’, on your Shiatsu! You might have to leave the fluid ‘cooking’ for a while, though…. :D

Marco.

[struth]

Remember getting my todge soaked in industrial grade acetone :stalks: was working on a pump and it still had some pressure in it. about 2 pints of the stuff siaked at pressure over the area ..I was in back of the truck at side of busy road...got some strange looks as i stripped off the dungerees right down to buff in record time...lol. it was swollen for a week...the wife did larf..

[walpurgis]

I recall similar situations at a place I worked at very many years ago, where the favourite nasty trick was to throw a bunch of rag soaked in Trichlorethylene at the front of a victim's trousers. They'd be hopping about in pain within seconds and rushing off to the changing rooms.

[CageyH]

So, how do you shift stubborn dust bugs?

[The Barbarian]

Ive never done anything daft at work. However i do remember a funny incident when i was at the Woodworking company. I worked with a bloke that was quite frankly a pig when he was eating his lunch, the food used to swill around his gob in the same manner you washing would in a washing machine! One Dinner time id had enough of his slopping. I made my self a cuppa Tea on the work bench, placed the red hot Tea bag on the spoon & launched it towards him, the idea was for it to splatter on the double doors at the side of him to temp stop him making his slopping sound go away but my shot was much better than i thought, it landed right in his chops :D

[CageyH]

So, how do you shift stubborn dust bugs?

Any recommendations for a good cleaning brush please?
Is the MoFi one any good?

[doom2112]

Since i am from Sweden and the Tarkett solution (mentioned earlier in this thread)that we use for cleaning vinyl floors is also from sweden.
Its organic just like Lart du son.I use both and i cant see any difference at all.

I mix tarkett just the same as Lart du son 10ml/500ml distilled water and use the Tarkett solution first and the L art du son as a second rinsing,as a third i use distilled water and 1ml/500ml ilfotol wetting agent,all these mixtures are pure organic.
This way i keep the cost down ,the L´art du son is quite expensive.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=44
http://www.bjoorn.se/p/Rengoring/8792120/Tarkett-Bioclean-1-liter

The bioclean cost about 10£ in sweden i guess it´s sold in UK as well,I think its just as good as L art du son and it will last a lifetime.

The best brushes you can use are found in stores where they sell paint and brushes,the pads for straight corner
This is what they look like.
http://www.anza.se/sortiment/rollers/ovriga-rollerprodukter/hjuldyna~p8249

There are other makers as well,i guiess you have some in UK that look the same.
You just change the pads when they are too dirty or just rinse them with som cleaning detergent and water and let them dry they last a long time.
Much better than long hair vpi brushes and the likes.
Just soak them in the solution,you are about to use.
I use corks that you cand find on energy drink or sport bottles that you can pull up when you drink and then seal them by pushing it down.
(Since i am Swedeish I don´t know how to explain this but i think you know what i mean)
I have three of them for each of the three solutions i use.
I just hold them against the pads and rub them up and down and whip off the exess in the sink.
You dont have to doubt me i have done all of brushes mixed solutions that can be used.I have done it all during the last 30 years.
I use a VPI Machine and a homemade ultrasound cleaner.

Hope you can find all these things in UK or simular.
I dont use IPA or simular alcohol stuff.And i never will.
The stuff above is much better.
Regards Per Karlsson sweden
Sorry about no pictures i have to find out how to upload them.
Look at the

[karma67]

Any recommendations for a good cleaning brush please?
Is the MoFi one any good?
Yep I use 2.

[Ali Tait]

A homemade ultrasonic cleaner sounds interesting, how was this made?

[struth]

Since i am from Sweden and the Tarkett solution (mentioned earlier in this thread)that we use for cleaning vinyl floors is also from sweden.
Its organic just like Lart du son.I use both and i cant see any difference at all.

I mix tarkett just the same as Lart du son 10ml/500ml distilled water and use the Tarkett solution first and the L art du son as a second rinsing,as a third i use distilled water and 1ml/500ml ilfotol wetting agent,all these mixtures are pure organic.
This way i keep the cost down ,the L´art du son is quite expensive.

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=44
http://www.bjoorn.se/p/Rengoring/8792120/Tarkett-Bioclean-1-liter

The bioclean cost about 10£ in sweden i guess it´s sold in UK as well,I think its just as good as L art du son and it will last a lifetime.

The best brushes you can use are found in stores where they sell paint and brushes,the pads for straight corner
This is what they look like.
http://www.anza.se/sortiment/rollers/ovriga-rollerprodukter/hjuldyna~p8249

There are other makers as well,i guiess you have some in UK that look the same.
You just change the pads when they are too dirty or just rinse them with som cleaning detergent and water and let them dry they last a long time.
Much better than long hair vpi brushes and the likes.
Just soak them in the solution,you are about to use.
I use corks that you cand find on energy drink or sport bottles that you can pull up when you drink and then seal them by pushing it down.
(Since i am Swedeish I don´t know how to explain this but i think you know what i mean)
I have three of them for each of the three solutions i use.
I just hold them against the pads and rub them up and down and whip off the exess in the sink.
You dont have to doubt me i have done all of brushes mixed solutions that can be used.I have done it all during the last 30 years.
I use a VPI Machine and a homemade ultrasound cleaner.

Hope you can find all these things in UK or simular.
I dont use IPA or simular alcohol stuff.And i never will.
The stuff above is much better.
Regards Per Karlsson sweden
Sorry about no pictures i have to find out how to upload them.
Look at the

the bioclean is interesting. is it an enzyme cleaner?.I ve been using a us one but its expensive

[doom2112]

Yes the tarkett bioclean is biodegradeable (Hope thats right).
Acts just like the Lárt du son.
Smells not exactly like it but simular.
I have used it as a first rinse and the Lart du son as second tos ave the expensive hifi cleaner.
I cant tell any difference in sound between the two.
The smell is some sort of soap in both cases.
As i have said earlier the paintpads i use are very good much better than the expensive hifi stuff you can buy.

This is what i can find for UK
http://home.tarkett.co.uk/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Solutioms-12906070-Precision-discontinued-manufacturer/dp/B002Q8HHZ0
You will have to call them and ask for the bioclean product.

[geovar]

Looking around for a good method to clean LP records, I found this bellow text coming from the famous Library of Congress.
Give a look, I think it worth's our attention and please let me know your opinion.
The link bellow:
http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html

"Cleaning Audio Visual Materials

Sound cleaning procedures for audio visual materials is different for each format. Cleaning of magnetic tape and of cylinders is a delicate undertaking and should be carried out only by a preservation specialist in these activities and is not covered here.



1. Pour 2 mL of Tergitol™ 15-S-7 Surfactant into a 4 L container (glass, stainless steel type 304 or 316, fiberglass-reinforced polyester, polyethylene, or polypropylene) and fill with deionized water, which results in a 0.05% solution.

2. Store the solution in a non-food refrigerator.

3. Store the pure Tergitol™ in its original container (preferably under nitrogen) in a non-food refrigerator.

4. Transfer only the amount of solution immediately needed to a spray bottle for manual cleaning or to the indicated container for mechanized cleaning.

5. To clean discs by hand: Spray the solution onto the surface of the grooved or optical disc; wipe off solution and surface contaminants with a non-abrasive, lint-free lens cloth; thoroughly rinse with deionized water; dry the disc with a dry, clean, nonabrasive, lint-free lens cloth.

5. To use the solution in a mechanized cleaner: Put just enough solution into the cleaner reservoir so that fresh solution is used each day or remove the solution every day and store in a non-food refrigerator; thoroughly rinse disc with deionized water (do not allow any cleaner solution to remain on disc); dry the disc with a dry, clean, nonabrasive, lint-free lens cloth.

Caution: Only persons trained in the safe handling and disposal of chemicals and hazardous wastes should prepare and use the Record Cleaning Solution. Personal protective equipment (PPE) should be worn during the preparation and use of the cleaning solution.

Safety Data Sheets (Material Safety Data Sheets) for Tergitol™ and for the Record Cleaning Solution. Because the Record Cleaning Solution contains less than 1% of Tergitol™, it does not have to be listed on the data sheet.

MSDS for Library of Congress Record Cleaning Solution [PDF: 65 KB / 4 p.]
DOW Surfactants: Tergitol™ 15-S Series External Link

Disclaimer:
The Library of Congress shares this information as a public service. The effectiveness of this cleaning solution has not been compared to commercial products and no guarantee is implied or intended that it will meet the needs of all users. Institutions or individuals who prepare or use the solution do so at their own risk. The Library of Congress will not be liable for any injury to any person, animal, or ecosystem, or for damage to any item resulting from the use of any of the materials, chemicals, or procedures described here".

[geovar]

Looking around for a good method to clean LP records, I found this bellow link,the famous Library of Congress.
Give a look, I think it worth's our attention and please let me know your opinion.
The link:
http://www.loc.gov/preservation/care/record.html

[doom2112]

The problem is to find Tergitol™ 15-S-7 i have found it in USA but not in europe.
Mabye someone else can find it.

[geovar]

The problem is to find Tergitol™ 15-S-7 i have found it in USA but not in europe.
Mabye someone else can find it.

Give a look bellow. Put Tergitol in search.
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/european-export.html

[Tarzan]

Thought I'd move this to a separate thread of its own, should anyone wish to refer to it. Cheers! :)

Marco.

l would just like to add l feel a valid point- leave the solution for 5 minutes then vacum off, gives the cleaning solution more time to do it's thang.:eek:

[Gazjam]

That's a thought...
Always assumed leaving the solution for a while gave the gunk time to sink back into the groove?

Not sure, been hoovering it up pretty much right away.
Hope I'm not wrong, spent most of this weekend cleaning records and I'm over half way through!

[struth]

Yep I usually let it sit for a few mins too so it can soften it up the a little more added and a second brush b4 vaccum. been cleaning a few of late and using a a mix of my own and Pauls cool and a drop of emzyme added to help with old greasy marks etc

[The Barbarian]

Aye i always leave it standing a while.. When you think about it what's the rush when your spending hours talking utter shit on here im sure an extra five mins wont hurt :eyebrows:

[Gazjam]

Aye i always leave it standing a while.. When you think about it what's the rush when your spending hours talking utter shit on here im sure an extra five mins wont hurt :eyebrows:

True 'dat!

I'll let it sit for a couple of mins and give it a second brush before letting suckage commence.
Earth shatteringly important stuff as always! :D

[The Barbarian]

Suckage :D

[karma67]

here's what i do,its a deep clean mind and you can only do a couple of lp's before you loose the will to live!
i use A.I.V.S 3 step cleaners.
1st is the enzymatic solution,i let that sit for 20 mins,then vac off and rinse twice.
2nd is their isopropanol based cleaner,i brush clockwise and anti-clockwise for 3 mins then vac off and rinse twice.
then i use the disc doctor's miracle cleaning solution repeating the brushing as above.vac off.
lastly 2 rinses.
if that lot doesn't give you good results your records fu*ked! lol

[The Barbarian]

No way on earth would i let any form of Meths near my records. No way.

[karma67]

sorry i didnt mean meths i meant isopropanol,meths is what i drink after the cleaning!

[The Barbarian]

O right, ok but never us Meths on records it's a solvent & will destroy your records long term.

[struth]

+1 on not using meths.The additives that denature them can destroy plastics and such. surgical spirit is a no no too. pure isopropyl watered down is ok.

[karma67]

Guys calm down I don't use meths.it was a slip of the tongue. :)
I was mearly indicating what was in the cleaner.

[struth]

Was cleaning again today. Meant to say I use an old cd to protect the label.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/98c82e2cc82df2a5048611aaed0373c8.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/2f0a0275296a77f2ad8ec4f46a19bf99.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/12/1c5a75c97393b9d971cb6f03099178c4.jpg

[PaulStewart]

here's what i do,its a deep clean mind and you can only do a couple of lp's before you loose the will to live!
i use A.I.V.S 3 step cleaners.
1st is the enzymatic solution,i let that sit for 20 mins,then vac off and rinse twice.
2nd is their isopropanol based cleaner,i brush clockwise and anti-clockwise for 3 mins then vac off and rinse twice.
then i use the disc doctor's miracle cleaning solution repeating the brushing as above.vac off.
lastly 2 rinses.
if that lot doesn't give you good results your records fu*ked! lol

I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

[cuddles]

Here's a question for Okki Nokki users - how do you remove the pads from the suction arm? I could do with a fresh set but rather than going in like a bull at a gate I would prefer a measured approach ;)

[Tarzan]

l would just like to add l feel a valid point- leave the solution for 5 minutes then vacum off, gives the cleaning solution more time to do it's thang.:eek:

Cleaning process re dux; I am now experimenting with a de- ionised water rinse at the end of the above process.( Although l am not the first.) Do not want that Isopropl Alcohol getting near the Cadenza Black.:cool:

[AlfaGTV]

I'm pretty sure the IPA will have vaporized before you had the chance to speak a dirty word of choice! ;)

[AlfaGTV]

Here's a question for Okki Nokki users - how do you remove the pads from the suction arm? I could do with a fresh set but rather than going in like a bull at a gate I would prefer a measured approach ;)

Just rip'em off, they are made from some form of fabric and can take quite a beating. I actually usually reuse them once, just change their postion (or rotate each one 180 degrees)
You just use a few mm's of the edge, the rest is new!
(And the glue usually works just fine once more)

If you are replacing them, clean the suction tube thoroughly with a gentle glue remover and then a degreaser. Otherwise the new pads wont stick properly...
Atb Mike

[karma67]

I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

re point 1, i do that out of choice and not because of a weakness in the fluid,if your fluid is the dogs bo**ocks how about a small free sample so i can compare? if its good i gladly buy some.in your defence though i have just re-read the aivs instructions and it does appear that iam going well over the top with the times left on the records so fair play to you.
regards.
j.

[PaulStewart]

re point 1, i do that out of choice and not because of a weakness in the fluid,if your fluid is the dogs bo**ocks how about a small free sample so i can compare? if its good i gladly buy some.in your defence though i have just re-read the aivs instructions and it does appear that iam going well over the top with the times left on the records so fair play to you.
regards.
j.

Jamie, I don't need to "defend myself" as "The Right One" record cleaning fluid sells as fast as I can make it, over 50% of my customers are return customers as well. My observations were an attempt to provide you with some information gleaned over years of research, so you did not damage your records, remind me not to bother in future. Still as they say no good deed goes unpunished

[karma67]

CHILL WINSTON.........i think you may have took that the wrong way mate,i thank you for your advice,reading what you said made me look at instructions for my cleaners and change the way i use them,that was down to you.

[daytona600]

a clean record is a happy record

thevinylpress.com/cleaning-vinyl-records-my-personal-odyssey/

thevinylpress.com/cleaning-and-archival-standards-of-care/

thevinylpress.com/category/cleaning-care/

[CageyH]

Yesterday was a sad day. :eyebrows:
I have almost finished my bottle of "The right one" and I have run out of new inner sleeves.
I must have cleaned close to 40 records yesterday.

Due the problems in shipping cleaning fluid to France, I have ordered some Isopropyl and a litre of Ilfotol. I already have the distiller water, so I am going to have a go at making my own fluid. It had better work out ok, as I have bought 6 litres of Isopropyl.

I just need to place an order for some more inner sleeves and the cleaning marathon can continue.

[struth]

Yesterday was a sad day. :eyebrows:
I have almost finished my bottle of "The right one" and I have run out of new inner sleeves.
I must have cleaned close to 40 records yesterday.

Due the problems in shipping cleaning fluid to France, I have ordered some Isopropyl and a litre of Ilfotol. I already have the distiller water, so I am going to have a go at making my own fluid. It had better work out ok, as I have bought 6 litres of Isopropyl.

I just need to place an order for some more inner sleeves and the cleaning marathon can continue.

been making my own lately too..works great as well and its cheaper. especially when you clean a lot like you...pauls stuff if superb though.

[CageyH]

Paul's fluid is superb.
His eBay advert no longer includes shipping outside of the UK though. It was a pain last time, as the first carrier refused to ship it. Paul went out of his way to find someone who would though.

[Rush2112]

My God Jamie that's a lot of effort ! My solution is homemade Isopropanol, AnalaR and Ilfotol in the following quantities - 200ml 800ml 15ml for records and 35ml 141ml and 5ml for CD/DVD etc in the Discwaher Hydrobath

[Rush2112]

Just apply to record clean for at least a minute with brush whilst rotating allow to stand for a couple of mins then again with carbon brush and pad then dry it works for me !

[karma67]

My God Jamie that's a lot of effort ! My solution is homemade Isopropanol, AnalaR and Ilfotol in the following quantities - 200ml 800ml 15ml for records and 35ml 141ml and 5ml for CD/DVD etc in the Discwaher Hydrobath
i dont do that anymore mate lol

[Gazjam]

Nice to know I've been using your fluid the right way Paul. :)
Hate to go back and do 300odd LPs again!


I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

[Gazjam]

Nice to know i've been using your fluid the right way Paul. :)
Hate to go back and do 300odd LPs again...


I did not want to comment on this, because as you know I make and sell a record cleaning fluid and I don't want to be accused of "Shiling" However, there seem to be so many misconceptions about what should go into a good RCM fluid and how it should be used that I want to clarify a few points.

1) If you are having to brush for 2 or three minutes, the wetness of the fluid is wrong and no matter how long you brush, you won't reach the bottom of the groove. The wetting agent has to be of a seeking type that causes capillary action to draw the fluid into the groove and soak the detritus trapped there.

2) Soak time, it takes a maximum of 10 second for the capillary action to cause the fluid to get as far down the groove as it will get, after that, about 10 seconds soak time will loosen the crud as much as possible WITH EACH APPLICATION, it may be that it more than one go, but leaving the fluid longer makes no difference, once it's done all it can, it's done all it can, it becomes saturated and you need to use some more.

3) Enzyme cleaners are detrimental to your records if not rinsed off and to your RCM, especially the point nozzle type, rinsed or not. I've lost count of the number of machines I've had to strip down and clean out because the growth many people have seen in the bottle with fluids such as L'Art du Son, occurs in the pipework of you RCM and when it dries out it leaves a black powdery residue that jams the machine. The best degreasant is Isopropanol anyway. It also kills mould and bacteria if mixed with water, so why would you need anything else?

4) Ilfatol as a wetting agent. As a photographer, I used Ilfatol for years, but it's not anti static, that's why Ilford sell anti stat film wipes. Part of the formula has to be an anti stat, Oh and by the way don't use Kodak Photo-Flo if you can still get it as it contains products which are anti stat, but are also de-vinylising.

Cheers

[CageyH]

"Archive" solution recipe as used by record libraries stateside and in the UK in bygone times:

25% (max) lab grade 99.9% pure IPA;

75% demineralised/de-ionised water;

Add to this 0.5 to 1% by volume Ilford Ilfotol wetting agent (do not use older recipes such as Kodak Photoflo as the additives could leave a residue).

Personally, I'd avoid using washing up liquid as it contains large amounts of salt but a little (as in a few drops per litre) may be ok.

Water - check
IPA - check
Ilfotol - check

Time for the first home brew cleaning solution.

[karma67]

Water - check
IPA - check
Ilfotol - check

Time for the first home brew cleaning solution.

this will give you a good guide for using it.
https://londonjazzcollector.wordpress.com/for-audiophiles/home-brew-cleaner-for-vacuum-rcms/

[Rush2112]

In reality my timings are probably much shorter than stated ! As for the comments on Ilfotel anyone got another option which is AntiStatic ?

[pikebobstar]

Hi Rush2112,

Sorry for Hi Jacking this thread. Completely off topic but just wanted to commend you on an excellent user ID. "All the world to me's a stage and we are merely players performers and portrayers.....etc...well you know how it goes.

Favourite Rush track? mine is Natural Science :)

[misterdog]

], there is usually a small build of static, as a result of the felt strips, fitted to the drying nozzle, passing over the record surface and making light contact with it, during the drying process. Therefore, simply 'zap' the record surface once with the Zerostat gun, thereby discharging it from any static, lift the record off of the platter and pop it into an anti-static record sleeve.

Marco.

Or use pure cotton velvet pads !

Most velvet is now acrylic but I managed to source some proper stuff. 10mm cotton velvet ribbon and some 2 sided tape..


@ RUSH 2112.

ILFORD ILFOTOL is a non-ionic wetting agent used as a final rinse before drying films. It can be used in all manual and machine processes to aid rapid even drying and so greatly reduce the risk of drying marks being formed. ILFOTOL can also be used as a final rinse before drying fibre based prints, again it promotes rapid, even drying. Additionally it can be used to clean glass and plastic lenses and filters and as an antistatic treatment. 1 Litre.

[Mike - H]

I’ve been playing with my nice new Okki Nokki, trying different methods. I bought some of Pauls ‘The Right One’ fluid, and I had some Disc Doctor fluid which I bought in a kit with cleaning pads etc. I tried the brush that came with the machine first with Pauls cleaning fluid, I wasn’t getting the coverage I was expecting. So I changed to the Disc doctor products which seemed better, but with these you have to do a rinse. When I changed to using The Right One fluid along with the disc doctor pads I got the best results of all.

At present I only have one nozzle so I’m cleaning my recently bought new records before moving on to my older stuff. I’m amazed how greasy my hands are, I’m a surgical assistant and scrub my hands at least 4 or 5 times a day and I would have said I had dry hands. Some of my Beatles mono collection were in really tight card sleeves and I had to pull the record out, rather than just let it slide out. Even this minimal contact left marks that were a bitch to shift from the otherwise brand new discs. I brought home some Nitrile gloves from work so I don’t have to worry about inadvertent contact with the surface. I cleaned about a dozen discs, and was probably a bit free with the fluid but at the end I only got a few drops out of the drain tube, I wondered if flushing the tank out at the end might be worth a try?

[gsq4848]

I’ve been playing with my nice new Okki Nokki, trying different methods. I bought some of Pauls ‘The Right One’ fluid, and I had some Disc Doctor fluid which I bought in a kit with cleaning pads etc. I tried the brush that came with the machine first with Pauls cleaning fluid, I wasn’t getting the coverage I was expecting. So I changed to the Disc doctor products which seemed better, but with these you have to do a rinse. When I changed to using The Right One fluid along with the disc doctor pads I got the best results of all.

At present I only have one nozzle so I’m cleaning my recently bought new records before moving on to my older stuff. I’m amazed how greasy my hands are, I’m a surgical assistant and scrub my hands at least 4 or 5 times a day and I would have said I had dry hands. Some of my Beatles mono collection were in really tight card sleeves and I had to pull the record out, rather than just let it slide out. Even this minimal contact left marks that were a bitch to shift from the otherwise brand new discs. I brought home some Nitrile gloves from work so I don’t have to worry about inadvertent contact with the surface. I cleaned about a dozen discs, and was probably a bit free with the fluid but at the end I only got a few drops out of the drain tube, I wondered if flushing the tank out at the end might be worth a try?

Interesting. I too have a new shiny Okki Nokki. I shall follow your progress with interest; for now I plan to use the supplied fluid and brush. I've purchased some distilled water (rather than use my stock of de-ionised water I've used with my SpinClean) to mix with the fluid. Using the machine for the first time tomorrow...

[Mike - H]

Just a few lines on the machine itself, I had to send the first one back as it was damage in transit but the sales people at Frank Harvey (hifix) were excellent and replaced it no quibble. It seems solidly made and is smart in appearance, I chose white. Several reviews had complained that they can be noisy but I was pleasantly surprised by the sound level, particularly when it warmed up after half a dozen discs or so, no excessive heat just warm from continuous use. I do wonder if most of the fluid is evaporated by the suction and warmth will this lead to build up of gunk lining the tank, as mentioned earlier I may try flushing the tank or maybe priming it with some fresh water at the start? will have another session tomorrow.

[AlfaGTV]

The amount of 'gunk' in the tank also depends on what you're using as a cleansing liquid. I mostly use organic solutions for my stage 2 cleaning, L'ArtduSon or Tarkett BioClean. And they do leave more residue which allows mold and stuff to form in the tank.
(I always use an Isopropyl/Pure water/Washup liquid in the first part of cleaning a record)
I've had my Okki for about four years and it was sent back once due some strange effects. There was a constant hum when not in use, but connected to mains. This seems to have sent out some galvanic currents in different parts of the machine which caused corrosion. This mainly affected the suction pipe which lost its surface treatment and of course stopped it from moving freely in its mount.
The other issue was that the center tap on the platter had too few and too loose coils exposed which in the end caused med to strip them... :/
Anyways, my machine was repaired, the faulty electronics board was exchanged, the suction pipe was renewed and the the center tap was rebuild by a workshop, replacing the coils for one with more than a centimeter of coils, and much tighter.
However, there is still a very low hum when mains are connected and due to this i never leave it connected when not in use.
Function has always been top notch though, except for the issue with the coils that is!

/Mike

[Mike - H]

Just got a Milty Zerostat 3, instructions are rubbish so I watch some YouTube clips to get the general idea. Anybody know what the nozzle/cap thingy is for?

[karma67]

It's to test if it works. There's a dim little bulb that lights up when the triggers realised.

[struth]

Dunno..ive got an older one.. Id imagine it will be pretty similar in use though. Fires pos and neg ions onto record surface i think.... Nice and slowly does it and it does work

[smartiepants]

found this tread while researching cleaning solutions, Just in the process of ordering one of these

http://www.squeakycleanvinyl.com/

looks great & had good reports from other forums so giving it a whirl, he custom makes them to you "color" of choice (god I hate that spelling!!)

anybody here got one, did a search but I had no results pop up

[smartiepants]

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1695/24077078974_1d5d1bb2e0_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CFBjKh)

It's on its way

[struth]

Looks ok for a manual.. Like it that its evolved

[Macca]

Looks like a very cost-effective solution, that.

[WAD62]

Has anyone any experience of the recently released (I think) Pro-Ject RCM the Vinyl Cleaner VC-S, it looks like a reasonable VFM option...:)

http://project-audio.com/main.php?prod=vc-s

FYI I've got about 1K albums/12"s that are in serious need of a wash!

[The Black Adder]

I was going to buy the Pro-Ject only a few of weeks ago from a trade member here. I didn't and I won't go in to the reasons why but it certainly looks a good machine and priced well too. You must let us know how it turns out.

[WAD62]

I was going to buy the Pro-Ject only a few of weeks ago from a trade member here. I didn't and I won't go in to the reasons why but it certainly looks a good machine and priced well too. You must let us know how it turns out.

I rarely listen to my vinyl these days, a big wash, and perhaps a new turntable might be the way forward...;)

[Simon_LDT]

I've just ordered a Pro-ject RCM, bit of an impulse buy but I've always wanted a RCM.

Will report my findings once it arrives and I start using it. In the meantime, any tips for a complete RCM novice would be greatly appreciated. :)

[WAD62]

I've just ordered a Pro-ject RCM, bit of an impulse buy but I've always wanted a RCM.

Will report my findings once it arrives and I start using it. In the meantime, any tips for a complete RCM novice would be greatly appreciated. :)

Snap!...:)

[Slippershod]

howdy folks ... dipping a toe back into vinyl again, but keeping it simple and (to be frank) as cheap as poss. this time.

dealing with static and dirty records effectively remain two much-desired for goals, and I've read through the thread here accordingly.

I've no desire or dosh for vac-cleaning at this point (have had a moth and loricraft in the past), so had pretty much decided to go with Paul Stewart's potion and micro-fiber cloths, and was googling last night for the 'right' kind of the latter when I came across this page:

http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-releases/8-easy-and-affordable-ways-to-clean-your-vinyl-records-by-hand/

It's the fourth paragraph down that's got me wondering, where he robustly (and apparently with evidence, although not provided) argues against the use of isopropyl alchohol ... any comments on the matter would be much appreciated - particularly from you Paul (Stewart), as you clearly know your stuff.

[PaulStewart]

Hi Marc,

The problem with articles like this is they are well written, but sadly complete clap trap. There is a myth that isopropyl is de plasticising when it comes to vinyl. This is frankly nonsense, we tested pur cleaner with over a thousand cleaning and drying cycles, having built a test rig to measure the degree of bend, we also soaked a strip cut from a record in various strengths of alcohol for a week and then dried them and again there was no difference in the degree of flexibility. We then used a constant pressure scribing tool to see if the cleaned vinyl was more likely to scratch, it wasn't.

Next the idea that there is a protective coating on records is just nonsense. I've been invoved with the production of records for many years and it simply does not exist. There are some release compounds, on SOME records, not all presses needed them. However, alchohol on it's own does not work well, it needs to be mixed with other ingredients to make it clean effectively.

Hope this helps

[Slippershod]

cheers, Paul.
Interesting stuff, and thought / hoped that would be the case.
odd, in that he claims to have 'proof' and also that the article is on a record-manufacturing company's website (re: the protective coating) ... but your testing was obviously comprehensive (to say the least!). Thanks again for your answer.
Marc

[StuN]

If you want a full explanation from a bioscience perspective then there are 25 pages of interest in the link below!

He covers stuff like Photoflo, washing liquid, rinse-aid, alcohols and a host of other liquids that enthusiasts use, talks about Ph, acid etching, static etc.

However the gist of it is: never more than 10% alcohol and a couple of drops of a detergent per litre. The thread is mostly, but not exclusively american and the preferred detergent is Triton X-100. Take inspiration from the title: Record Cleaning - You're doing it all wrong!

If you manage the first 5 pages, then you can skip to the end until your motivation returns!

http://www.audiokarm...t-wrong.689430/

[Slippershod]

uh oh ... here we go :D vinyl craziness :eek:

couldn't get your link to work StuN, old chap?
here's what I googled:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/record-cleaning-youre-doing-it-wrong.689430/

but thanks - not sure I'll come out the 'other side' any more certain of stuff than usual, but it's interesting reading for sure.

[Slippershod]

ok -next question folks - hope there's still some interest in this thread.

I've bought this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00X30RXTA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

but have, typically, managed to come across record cleaning instructions online that say de-mineralised water (as opposed to distilled) is a definite no-no (although they don't say why of course...) ...

anyone reassure, or otherwise, that what I've bought is fit for purpose?


Marc

[daytona600]

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00X30RXTA?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00

de-mineralised water (as opposed to distilled)

Irons , Batteries, Coolant/Anti-Freeze, Windscreen Wash

for a RCM you need distilled , ultrapure or RO ( Reverse osmosis ) water

[struth]

I use triple distilled as it has the broadest capabilities...ive not tried de ionised ..... Sure there will be some with better knowledge around who will guide you.

Here is a guide for what its worth...:)


Effectiveness of Distillation
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):......Very Good
Dissolved gases (CO2, chlorine, radon):....................................Poor
Soluble organics (except VOC):............................................. ...Good
Particulates (sand, dust):............................................ .............Very Good
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):...............Very Good

Effectiveness of De-ionization
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):.......Poor
Dissolved gases (CO2, chlorine, radon):.....................................Good
Soluble organics (charged ions only):........................................Good
Particulates (sand, dust, colloids):........................................ .....Poor
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):...............Outstanding

Effectiveness of Reverse-Osmosis Filtration
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):......Very Good
Dissolved gases (chlorine only):............................................ ....Poor
Soluble organics (charged ions only):........................................Good
Particulates (sand, dust, colloids):........................................ .....Very good
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):...............Very Good

Effectiveness of Activated-Carbon Filtration
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):........Poor
Dissolved gases (chlorine):....................................... .................Good
Dissolved organics (herbicides, pesticides, industrial solvents):....Outstanding
Particulates (sand, dust, colloids):........................................ ......Poor
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):.................Poor

[Slippershod]

ok... answering my own question :D

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=38459

but shows how easy it is to stop with mis-information.

'Alex' in post two says de-minerlised 'fine', but if you go down to 'Guy's he seems to give a fuller explanation of why it isn't ... . Probably (in the sense that the stuff I've bought off amazon may well use additional processes that deal with the dissolved ionic goobers). Sigh.

[Macca]

On the plus side you're not going to run short of screen wash for your car for a while ;)

[Slippershod]

that's true.
I've emailed the company that 'make' the de-mineralised water, and will update with their opinion, if one's forthcoming...

[Slippershod]

Daytona, Struth - thanks for your replies and info - I wasn't seeing them until a 'refresh' just now.

triple-distilled it is I guess (at 5 times the price ... sign [again])

[Simon_LDT]

Just get distilled water, no point in skimping on a few quid. I got 2L worth for about £5-6 from APC Pure.

All this talk about Isopro not being good for LP's is worrying. Although there are just as many saying it's safe so it must just be a myth.

Still waiting on my bloody Pro-Ject RCM...

[Macca]

All this talk about Isopro not being good for LP's is worrying. Although there are just as many saying it's safe so it must just be a myth.

...

Listen to Paul - he has done the tests.

And if he says it's safe to surf this beach - then it's safe to surf this beach!

[struth]

Isopropyl is fine with vinyl..its been used for years..ive used it for years too... As said dont skimp on ingredients as its still cheap in long run. Goes a long way does a 5 litre tub of iso and bulk distilled h2o. If you dont want to experiment or save a bit then Pauls stuff is a good as your gonna find on market

[Slippershod]

Isopropyl is fine with vinyl..its been used for years..ive used it for years too... As said dont skimp on ingredients as its still cheap in long run. Goes a long way does a 5 litre tub of iso and bulk distilled h2o. If you dont want to experiment or save a bit then Pauls stuff is a good as your gonna find on market

I will be picking up some of Paul's stuff.
His brush is too rich for my blood however, and I'll have to see how micro-fibers do / alt. natural brush.

[AudioFreak]

I use triple distilled as it has the broadest capabilities...ive not tried de ionised ..... Sure there will be some with better knowledge around who will guide you.

Here is a guide for what its worth...:)


Effectiveness of Distillation
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):......Very Good
Dissolved gases (CO2, chlorine, radon):....................................Poor
Soluble organics (except VOC):............................................. ...Good
Particulates (sand, dust):............................................ .............Very Good
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):...............Very Good

Effectiveness of De-ionization
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):.......Poor
Dissolved gases (CO2, chlorine, radon):.....................................Good
Soluble organics (charged ions only):........................................Good
Particulates (sand, dust, colloids):........................................ .....Poor
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):...............Outstanding

Effectiveness of Reverse-Osmosis Filtration
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):......Very Good
Dissolved gases (chlorine only):............................................ ....Poor
Soluble organics (charged ions only):........................................Good
Particulates (sand, dust, colloids):........................................ .....Very good
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):...............Very Good

Effectiveness of Activated-Carbon Filtration
Biological contaminants (viruses, bacteria, pyrogens, cysts):........Poor
Dissolved gases (chlorine):....................................... .................Good
Dissolved organics (herbicides, pesticides, industrial solvents):....Outstanding
Particulates (sand, dust, colloids):........................................ ......Poor
Soluble minerals (salts, hardness, iron, heavy metals):.................Poor

+ 1 for distilled water, I get mine delivered from a lab supplier for less than £15 for 10 litres and have found it excellent.:cool:

[Slippershod]

+ 1 for distilled water, I get mine delivered from a lab supplier for less than £15 for 10 litres and have found it excellent.:cool:

details on who you buy from please, Gary?
Lots of suppliers / prices on ebay, but unclear as to how well 'distilled' their product is....

[Slippershod]

by gum, this vinyl business is a lark...

I've never had much time for carbon brushes - the sort one holds on the disc while it spins before a play etc, always finding they add static rather than otherwise...., as well as doing a poor job of actually getting the dust they collect actually 'off' the disc surface...

I recently came across the advice of grounding the brush to the spindle as you take it off and I must admit that does seem to work better ... but having been testing such techniques with a new disc (fairly dodgy pressing of Minstrel in the Gallery, but that's another story), I'm appalled by the 'micro-abrasions' (to be honest, they don't look that 'micro!) left in the two areas I'd used the brush (right across one radius of the grooves of course).
The brush I have is a no-name one, and the bristles do seem stiffer than some (deram?) that I've had in the past ... but even so, I won't be doing that again.

found a (bad-tempered and inconclusive, as per...) thread on it here:

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/carbon-fiber-brush-microabrasions.281574/page-6


what particularly irks me is that I've just bought (delivered) one of these:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/css/order-history/ref=ya_st_oh_crumb

I've had these on the past, and they do at least work in the terms of collecting dust ahead of the stylus, and the idea of a grounding cable always appeals (can't remember if it seemed to work in the past or not!) ... but now I don't know whether to use it or not. On the face of it, it would be daft after what I've seen using a brush.
I will try and get a pic or two of the 'scratches' when I can.

Any comments / advice much appreciated as ever.

Marc

(btw, should this really be a new thread? if a passing mod thinks so, and is able to oblige, that would be great)

[struth]

I use stiff nail brush on some bad ones and it doesnt scratch if used right way so you shouldn't cause any marks with a fibre one if you do it right. Dusting a clean one i put it on turntable and spin it .lay brush on and work in to label to spindle then lift..usually not much there if its been cleaned and anti staticed at last use or clean.. The antistatic pistols are good to reinforce what your cleaning solution should do static wise

[Slippershod]

thanks Struth.
this brush I mention does seem on the 'stiff' side for carbon fibre ... as I say I'll try and get a piccy or two up at some point. Although you have to get the light 'right' to see the marks, once you do, they certainly aint subtle...

the dustbug I mention is much less likely to cause trouble I would hope, if balanced correctly... but then again ... :scratch:


I use stiff nail brush on some bad ones and it doesnt scratch if used right way so you shouldn't cause any marks with a fibre one if you do it right. Dusting a clean one i put it on turntable and spin it .lay brush on and work in to label to spindle then lift..usually not much there if its been cleaned and anti staticed at last use or clean.. The antistatic pistols are good to reinforce what your cleaning solution should do static wise

[AudioFreak]

details on who you buy from please, Gary?
Lots of suppliers / prices on ebay, but unclear as to how well 'distilled' their product is....

Off the bay mate. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Distilled-Water-10-Litres-2-x-5L-Highest-Purity-Quality-/131639452365?hash=item1ea652a2cd:g:9ekAAOSwFNZWxOq 4 This product tells how the water is distilled:
•Pretreated through carbon filters
•Softened by Water Softener
•Pre-purified via Reverse Osmosis System
•Distilled (Glass)
•Treated with UV Ultraviolet High Intensity Light
•Filtered through 0.2 Micron Microbial Particulate System
•Polished

I have found this stuff excellent and now less than £14 delivered, you can't go wrong.

[Slippershod]

thanks a lot, Gary. I'll give 'em a go.

(mind you, after all of that, I'm surprised there's any water left at all :eek: !)

[AlfaGTV]

....
•Polished
....


How do you accomplish that? ;)

[struth]

Tin of polish lol

Think it's like a filtration chamber use them in wine making. Can be done with a chemical in water that falls to bottom and taking small partials with it

[Slippershod]

http://i1135.photobucket.com/albums/m626/slippershod/DSCN1530.jpg (http://s1135.photobucket.com/user/slippershod/media/DSCN1530.jpg.html)

hope that's showing - ages since I linked a photo...

assuming it is: this photo shows the marks I mentioned caused by (my attempt at) 'standard' use of a carbon fibre brush - and I have to say - it can be very difficult to see them, depending on light and angle of disc.
feel free to dismiss it as no more than evidence of my cack-handedness, but it's certainly given me pause for thought in terms of using any kind of carbon fibre brush now.

As mentioned, Ive got one of those carbon-fibre brushed dustbugs, but am thinking of sticking a sable-haired one onto it instead - I seem to have countered static by spraying water with an atomiser in the area around my deck ...

[karma67]

are you brushing across the grooves? i always brush diagonally outwards

[Slippershod]

that's what I used to do - but came across advice (youtube vid I think) which said you should move the brush directly off in a quick movement to the side ... you can see how well it worked :rolleyes:

I haven't tested methodically yet to see if these 'scratches' are audible (working up to actually cleaning the disc again, first!)

[Slippershod]

I appreciate the assertive and authoritative replies and advice above, and am certainly not trying to provoke and irritate, but given the large amount of dosh I have spent on this in the past (and it's rising again now, G** help me...) I'm still trying to reassure myself I've reached a clear conclusion:

this ebay seller of de-ionised water: is their product / process description relevant to what is suitable for cleaning / rinsing:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DE-IONISED-WATER-PURE-DE-MINERALISED-DEIONISED-DISTILLED-1-Litre-to-100-litre-/221964916041?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

I ask particularly as I've had a reply from the makers of the 'vinyl revival' cleaning set available on Amazon. I'd ordered a set of this before joining in with this thread and thinking more in terms of Paul's product: but what caught my eye is their admonition to avoid using distilled water.
In asking why, I've been told the following:

"Distilled water will contain cations and anions ie. positive and negative charge, which in turn can result in static - the record player's enemy."

Does this imply that water needs de-ionising as well (you can tell I'm not a chemistry major, right :D ) ... ? :scratch:

[Barry]

De-ionised water is purer than distilled water. http://www.distilleddeionizedwater.com/deionized-water-vs-distilled-water/

[AudioFreak]

Ultimately you need the purest water possible. So water that uses a combination of all the purification methods possible would be the best way. This is why I use laboratory water, it's the best that I have found.

[Slippershod]

thanks for info / opinion, Barry ... gosh, hard to find that elusive 'consensus' !! Do you use any purified water for this purpose yourself - and if so, source?

got some of the acpure stuff coming today, Gary - but now not clear - is it actually de-ionised?

Have failed to get any further elaboration from 'Vinyl Revival' (which I don't blame them for: it must be irksome trying to communicate with the scientifically illiterate, such as I), but as I mentioned above, what they did say seemed to imply that de-ionisation was important.

as such I was wondering about this stuff (I'll be able to open a swimming-pool at this rate):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/221964916041?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&var=520847302864&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

considerably less expensive than the other suppliers too... :scratch:

[karma67]

Are you vacuum cleaning? If you are I wouldn't get too hung up on what water to use.
I've used distilled and deionised water and both are fine

[Simon_LDT]

Still waiting on my goddamn Pro-ject RCM - apparently another 2 weeks wait for the next shipment, after already waiting 3 weeks...

[Slippershod]

no, not vacuuming.
had a moth and loricraft in the past, and most records were none the better for their use - and I used any number of powders and potions. I also damaged a few records with the moth before I realised how careful you've got to be in keeping the nozzle felts clean with that design.
I wont go that route again if I can get decent results with 'hand-washing' and rinsing.
But, then, the photo Paul Stewart posted earlier of grooves 'before and after' using a loricraft (I think) is compelling, and so why I had such little joy with all my earlier efforts I'm not quite sure. Combination of things: naivety and being un-methodical in main, probably.

But then again: have you seen what the guy behind Merrill record players and accessories has to say about vac-cleaning - and he's got photos to prove it too...! (http://www.hifigem.com/hydraulic-lp-cleaning-apparatusMKII.html)
I went for his line a few years back and bought the MK1 cleaner (GEM dandy thing) ... and... found it no better :lol: :doh: :mental: Could have been the quality of my tap-water and my attempts to filter it being inadequate...

As you can see: I've been through the mill with this, to put it mildly, and this time I'm aiming to keep it as quiet, simple and 'cheap' as possible.

[struth]

Vacuuming is pretty essential as is good cleaner and brush...then its technique and practice.. Difference is astonishing to me and wouldnt be without my moth or similar machine. Alas they are not cheap to buy but if you look after it it will last a lifetime. Mine is 8 years old and still working perfect and still on original pads

[karma67]

As you can see: I've been through the mill with this, to put it mildly, and this time I'm aiming to keep it as quiet, simple and 'cheap' as possible.
Have a look here for simple and cheap and excellent results. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?41037-record-cleaning-on-the-cheap

[Slippershod]

that is absolutely brilliant Jamie.

questions:

1) in the linked thread you say the pipe you use is kind of rectangular - which one do you mean, as neither look it in the photo?

2) as the pad around the end of the tube must be getting pretty soaked, how do you avoid it leaving dampness 'around' the vacummed area- this was a problem I had with my moth machine, where you'd end up with a damp 'band' across the record where you stop vacuuming... (I'm just wondering if you use more than one vacuuming set actually, as you change cleaning brushes between your two cycles?)

3) any chance you can supply more details for the parts you used?
some people such as yourself have a real gift for this kind of thing and 'making it work' while others (like me) get bogged down in the detail and making wrong choices.



Have a look here for simple and cheap and excellent results. http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?41037-record-cleaning-on-the-cheap

[karma67]

i bought the lot from b&q,the pipe is approx 18mm by 12,i only use one pipe for cleaning and rinsing but i do change the felt end regularly,all i use are moth ones cut to size.
i dont get a damp band as i always finish in the run off of the records :)

i basically adapt what this guy uses,it also has some good advice too . http://cleaningvinyllps.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/how-to-clean-vinyl-records-right-way.html

[Slippershod]

what glue did you use to attach the moth felt to the end of the plastic tube (I can see the 'wrong' sort soaking through the velvet and making scratch-making hard bits) ?

that guy's blog is great btw - thanks for the link to that (the gem dandy gets a special mention :doh:).

[Slippershod]

that guy's blog is great btw -

hmmm, having skimmed through it (bit of a stream of consciousness to say the least) I'm getting close to giving up on cleaning again :D :scratch:... he robustly dismisses using alchohol ... shows a guy hand-cleaning with an expensive Monks fluid (I remember seeing this stuff before online) in a way that surely can't clean the record effectively (watch the youtube video); I mean, if that method does work, well... by gum ... ... doesn't explain his home-made vac. cleaner properly at all (i.e. photos or diagrams) - if you read the comments it finally becomes apparent that he's approximating his own version of the loricraft approach with cotton thread over the end of his vac's tube, but there's no clear illustration of exactly what he does (btw, Jaime, he does this to avoid contamination from felt pads etc - but then you say you change them frequently, which is fair enough...)

I guess it bugs me: there are folk like Jaime here who are resourceful and acute enough to go through stuff like this and work out a method of their own that's effective, but others (umm, me) could do with rather more transparent and coherent explanations. With some of these guys it's like they've been on a course that lets them excel in tantalising you with an 'answer' only to then hide it in obfuscation ... mind you, I'll get a pump sprayer at least, so I thank him for that :ner:

No - seriously, there's a lot of interesting / good stuff there. But also a lot of stuff that contradicts much of what others assert (in this very thread of course - particularly as regards the use of alcohol and the need for lab-grade water) ... what to do :confused:

[Simon_LDT]

I think you're thinking too hard on everything (I do it myself sometimes!). Just get yourself a cheap vaccum RCM (be it 2nd hand or DIY project) or even get one on credit (I've ordered the Pro-ject on credit for 6 months at £40 a month which evens out the cost rather than lumping it all down in one go). Use 'The Right One' fluid (many people here recommend it so it can't be bad, eh?) and you're good to go.

In regards to using carbon brushes. I use a Milty and never had it scratch a record. Always hold it parallel to the grooves and apply the tiniest amount of pressure. After 1-2 rotations, gently sweep the brush away from the record in one swift motion.

[Slippershod]

I think you're thinking too hard on everything (I do it myself sometimes!).

well... possibly. But something's odd in my experience of this activity, for sure.
I went through Scott Nagle's 'record cleaning' section in his shop (Daytona on this site), and I've used almost every item of hardware / 'software' that he sells short of the Ultrasonic cleaners (not meaning I bought them from Scott or that this is a comment on his shop by the way: just an example to show the range of stuff I've tried!). Seriously.
To have apparently failed with so much stuff where others succeed routinely is certainly puzzling, and explains why I'm trying to find that 'consensus' this time before getting too far in again...
As far as Carbon Fibre brushes go, well .... you've seen my photo in this thread I imagine.
Ironically as far as those go, is it possible 'good' technique is disguising the damage they can cause (I mean if you're making sure the filaments are aligned with the grooves and are careful in removing the brush)? Dunno - but I have evidence that the substance is capable of scratching vinyl whatever other variables there may be...

anyhow, Paul Stewart's posts in this thread are certainly authoritative and compelling, and maybe I should just go with that, and try and be more ... careful.

[Simon_LDT]

Hopefully will be having a go at cleaning some records soon with my new Pro-ject RCM. :)

I do have what may seem a bit of a silly question: What do folks here do with the goats hair brush (for application) once finished with a cleaning session? Obviously it'll have some fluid still on it and I would have thought cleaning it under the tap is a no-no. Rinse with distilled water? Leave to dry naturally without rinsing off the fluid?

[struth]

I use a goat brush. Its specifically for wet use. I just use a micro fibre cloth. Laying the cloth on counter i just run the brush across it with the hairs so as not to damage it. Then it will dry quite quickly and stay nice n clean

[Simon_LDT]

Thanks Grant, sounds good to me. I suppose there shouldn't be too much fluid left on it anyway as long as the right amount is applied per side.

[AlfaGTV]

I use a goat brush. Its specifically for wet use. ...


Like this one?
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160329/2061ec180e8f2d0bbc5cce8f64f5a84b.jpg
How do you pay him? Certain favours? :rofl:

[Simon_LDT]

Another idiot question here: The Right One stuff is already diluted right? I've just tried cleaning my first LP and found it quite hard to distribute the fluid - or maybe I'm just not using enough. There's a very strong pure alcohol smell and it has me worried I've done it wrong already lol.