View Full Version : Is it good to leave your kit on stand-by or turn of completely between sessions?
Clive197
03-11-2013, 14:48
A question I have often pondered about and have always erred on caution leaving my kit on standbye.
Clive
I've never noticed much difference either way, but valve power amps are probably best switched off between sessions for elf and safety reasons.
I'm not sure whether it's good or bad practise, but I prefer to leave my equipment on all of the time. The only time I turn it off is when I'm away on holiday or when there's a thunder storm.
Arkless Electronics
03-11-2013, 16:08
It's best to leave it on all the time as this makes lots of business for the likes of myself :eyebrows: Such as the Krell I've got in at the moment which was left on all the time and now needs every electrolytic capacitor replacing.....
Yes folks just leave em on all the time ;)
Oldpinkman
03-11-2013, 16:15
Ah yes. A good friend told me similar Jez, so I turn em off. You will have no shortage of customers though I think :)
realysm42
03-11-2013, 16:17
Interesting Jez,move heard that turning things off and on is what hurts capacitors etc, due to thermal cycling.
Plus my Sanders has a lifetime warranty, yet the manufacturer advises to leave it on all of the time.
It's best to leave it on all the time as this makes lots of business for the likes of myself :eyebrows: Such as the Krell I've got in at the moment which was left on all the time and now needs every electrolytic capacitor replacing.....
Yes folks just leave em on all the time ;)
Oldpinkman
03-11-2013, 16:37
I've never noticed much difference either way, but valve power amps are probably best switched off between sessions for elf and safety reasons.
And heat. We have a VERY well acoustically insulated studio, which is also as a by-product well thermally insulated. I left my Fender Blues junior on overnight, in winter, and it was a toasty warm room in the morning! :)
Rare Bird
03-11-2013, 16:39
Never leave mine on, beside i aint got golden lug holes, sounds ok cold as it does hot..
Arkless Electronics
03-11-2013, 16:52
Interesting Jez,move heard that turning things off and on is what hurts capacitors etc, due to thermal cycling.
Plus my Sanders has a lifetime warranty, yet the manufacturer advises to leave it on all of the time.
Thermal cycling has little detrimental effect in practice as it's the things that get the hottest that will wear out the quickest due to being left on (Arrhenius equation etc) anyway! Much depends on how hot a unit gets and it's design in terms of thermal management etc.
They may well be having to honour that warranty then! Check out some data sheets for electrolytic capacitors ;)
Leaving my kit on all of the time isn't an option for me as I have valve kit, but surely it doesn't make sense to leave something powered all of the time from a sonic and environmental point of view. Most kit seems to stabilise after a relatively short period of time (30 mins to an hour), so just switch it on some time before a listening session. I'd get rid of anything that needed days to get to optimum performance. It's just badly designed if it is really necessary for it to work as it should.
Cheers,
Alex
Lodgesound
03-11-2013, 18:18
Turn it off when not in use - electricity is very expensive now (as I'm sure you have noticed!) and more importantly you should never leave machinery such as amplifiers (ESPECIALLY valve ones) turned on when you are out of the house. Safety first - machinery such as this can cause fires if it fails.
Rare Bird
03-11-2013, 18:21
Too right Stewart even old transistor amps..
bigmarty
03-11-2013, 18:34
Never leave mine on, beside i aint got golden lug holes, sounds ok cold as it does hot..
I'm with Andre on this, my ears take a wee bit of warming up with my hi fi and don't really notice a big difference + as a retained firefighter most of the property fires we attend are mostly due to electrical fires, so personally I would switch off when not in use.
Marty :D
I leave my equipment on all the time, always have done. There is far more chance that a component will fail upon switch on due to stresses induced over time by thermal cycling. I would be suspicious of any arguments to the contrary as this is well understood in the industry. Of course this applies to solid state kit as it can be expensive and sometimes even dangerous to leave valve kit on permanently. Classé understood this to be a potential issue as they did not equip the DR5 pre-amp with a power switch.
The Puccini amp I just sold was recommended to be left permenantly in standby which I did and very little of the circuitry was getting any juice so I did not mind but other than that everything else is switched off for if no other reason, safety.
When I had the A1000, it was certainly more tuneful when it had warmed up but could not notice any difference with the current one...an Arcam.
Arkless Electronics
03-11-2013, 19:12
I leave my equipment on all the time, always have done. There is far more chance that a component will fail upon switch on due to stresses induced over time by thermal cycling. I would be suspicious of any arguments to the contrary as this is well understood in the industry. Of course this applies to solid state kit as it can be expensive and sometimes even dangerous to leave valve kit on permanently. Classé understood this to be a potential issue as they did not equip the DR5 pre-amp with a power switch.
Great! Yes everybody should leave it on all the time! My rates are very reasonable....
:rofl:
Modern designs that use modern better matched bits and also put the caps round the right way and use them well within tolerances shouldn't need to be left on 24/7, although they also shouldn't run wild if this is done :) It's only naim that started all this bull for the simple reason that the power amp design was apparently not converted properly to PNP use (I think it was) back in the bad old days (before JV got his mitts on the circuit IIRC) and apparently a couple of caps are reverse-biased slightly, which affects their lifespan and stability long term. having said this, Quads up to the 405-2 used to eat their capacitors every ten years or so, but I don't know how long they cop with their replacements...
Rare Bird
03-11-2013, 22:09
I'm i the only one then with a wind up stereo?
Mine's steam driven with all but the CD player (and the 80's tuner) harking back to the early to mid 70's......
I'm i the only one then with a wind up stereo?
I have 2, but they aint stereo....
Clothears
04-11-2013, 08:01
Switch off every time. My wife reckons I'm a bit OCD when it comes to switching off appliances, lights etc.
.
jollyfix
04-11-2013, 08:20
Switch off for me.
I have my Power Plant run the source components and preamp fully powered all the time, as they take a good hour to fully come on song. I switch the power amp on manually or send a command to turn it on as I leave work for home.
My valve gear is always switched off after use. It would be utter lunacy not to do so. The SS kit (Sony CD transport and DAC/TT PSU) stays on 24/7, as if switched off overnight (or longer) it sounds notably below par until it warms up again and reaches its optimal operating conditions. This is definitely not imagined. Experience tells me that audio equipment performs at its best when left in a continuous 'steady state'.
Furthermore, outside of the summer holidays, where we're away for a long period of time, and the whole system is disconnected from the mains supply, said SS kit has been left powered up, 24/7, for many years, with no problems whatsoever - not even a blown fuse! Therefore, I wouldn't have been a very good customer of Jez's... ;)
Experience also tells me that equipment is most likely to fail upon 'switch on', due to stresses in the internal circuitry, after having been left switched off for a period of time. Ever wondered why, outside of a fault situation, light bulbs or fuses usually only blow when switched on (or when the appliance they're fitted to has been switched on)?
I've always wanted to conduct a test to see how long two identical light bulbs lasted, connected to two identical table lamps, one left switched on permanently, and the other switched on and off, as and when it was required.
If I were a betting man, I'd put £100 on the former winning!
If the argument here is about saving money and energy, then there is no argument - switch everything off after use. However, if the argument is that leaving your solid-state gear switched on permanently automatically shortens its lifespan, then I'd say that was debatable (and depends on many factors), as indeed is whether or not said gear sounds better when not switched off.
The answer to that will vary depending on the kit in question and/or whether the user can tell any difference.
Marco.
Marco,
I was going to say that Amps aren't light bulbs, but yours are (sort of!). Yes, inrush current damages light bulbs but that needn't be the case with electronics. There are many different ageing mechanisms for different components, but I think we can all agree that a light bulb or hifi component left switched off will last longer than one left switched on!.
Regards,
Alex
Marco,
I was going to say that Amps aren't light bulbs, but yours are (sort of!). Yes, inrush current damages light bulbs but that needn't be the case with electronics.
"Needn't" is the key word here. I agree - it needn't happen, but it can! I would argue that, although light bulbs and electronics are designed differently, the latter can still suffer from the effects of 'in-rush current', especially when they are being subjected to that situation daily (or perhaps even more often).
There are many different ageing mechanisms for different components, but I think we can all agree that a light bulb or hifi component left switched off will last longer than one left switched on!.
Well not me - at least it's not an automatic fact. One day, I will conduct the light bulb test...
Marco.
Oldpinkman
04-11-2013, 09:19
"Needn't" is the key word here. I agree - it needn't happen, but it can! I would argue that, although light bulbs and electronics are designed differently, the latter can still suffer from the effects of 'in-rush current', especially when they are being subjected to that effect daily (or perhaps even more often).
Well not me - at least it's not an automatic fact. One day, I will conduct the light bulb test...
Marco.
Marco - I promise you - if you LEAVE A LIGHT BULB switched off it will last forever. I think Alex was teasing you :)
Lol - ah, permanently left switched off... That's a different matter! :eyebrows:
Marco.
Oldpinkman
04-11-2013, 09:50
Of course the other consideration we could note, along the lines of Arthurs posts about measurements, and the importance of using the right ones, is to consider how your (admirable - like a bit of science) identical lamp test is to be carried out.
If we accept that the light bulb's life is affected by BOTH total time running, and number of times switched on, then which lasts longer
the light left on always
or the one switched on and off
will depend on whether the lamp switched on and off is on for 23 hours a day, and off for one, or off for 23 hours a day and on for one. (It would obviously also be affected by being turned on and off more than once a day)
If electronic components in SS devices are similarly affected, this would also affect which route led first to Jez's workshop.
Experiments and measurements can be wonderful things, but it's so easy to get them wrong and draw the wrong conclusion. Which is why it is no bad thing to get the ears involved too when it comes to choosing hifi. :)
Absolutely, Richard. The validity of any such test is always dependent on applying the correct judgement criteria. If conducted properly, the results of the lamp test would be interesting.
The only thing that would scupper it, would be any variance in quality between production samples of the light bulbs in question. Some could simply last longer (regardless of being switched on and off, or not) just because they left the factory 'better built' in the first place...
Fuses are also a good example here, as outside of a fault situation, they most commonly blow when the equipment they are connected to is switched on (as a result of the effect of 'in-rush current'). Under normal circumstances, they rarely (if ever) blow simply because they are left in-circuit. Therefore, it is obvious that this is a genuine issue and something that should be considered.
However, the reason why I brought this matter up was to focus people's attention on something that they may not have previously considered: that some audio equipment *may* suffer from being continuously subjected to the effects of 'in-rush current' (due to regularly being switched on and off) - and in those circumstances *could* benefit, sonically and electrically, from being left permanently powered up.
I guess the question is: do you care more about your gear or your energy bills....?
Marco.
I used to leave everything on, but since I fitted balanced mains even though it has overkill protection fitted, I switch everything off. In fact my DAC manufacturer specifically recommends switching off when not in use due to everything running in Class A.
Out of interest has anyone actually had a component go pop when switched on?
I used to leave everything on, but since I fitted balanced mains even though it has overkill protection fitted, I switch everything off. In fact my DAC manufacturer specifically recommends switching off when not in use due to everything running in Class A.
Out of interest has anyone actually had a component go pop when switched on?
Yup, several times over the years and all were amps.
I used to leave everything on, but since I fitted balanced mains even though it has overkill protection fitted, I switch everything off. In fact my DAC manufacturer specifically recommends switching off when not in use due to everything running in Class A.
Out of interest has anyone actually had a component go pop when switched on?
Yup, it's happened to me, too. The biggest culprits tend to be high-current drawing devices, for obvious reasons, but I've also had it happen with a DAC.
Marco.
trio leo
04-11-2013, 10:46
I can understand switching off valve equipment makes sense, and I dare say some old SS stuff may give you peace of mind if it's off when you are not there.
However fridges, freezers, etc are designed to be left on permanently. I don't know anything about electrickery, but it makes sense that turning things on and off repeatedly can cause fatigue in components due to being hot and cold, it also makes sense that the initial surge with switch on can upset things.
I suppose you should take into consideration what the manufacturers tell you to do, I once had a Trio L07C pre-amp and the instructions said maximum performance would be attained after 24hrs and to leave it on, years later I had a Spectral DMC12 pre-amp with the same instructions.
Nowadays my Albarry amps are designed to be left switched on permanently, the designer explained to me how and why, but he lost me in the details, it was something to do with temperature at which components ran, if I play LOUD music all day the power amps only ever get hand hot.
As for power usage the pre-amp and both power amps combined only use 8 Watts when in "standby" mode, I don't suppose that would cost much to run.
I suppose if you're not sure about your equipment then play safe and switch it off.
enjoy your music
regards Al
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2013, 11:05
I've seen it said several times that "my equipment is designed to be left switched on"..... it is not possible to design electronic circuitry to be left on permanently! There are no special components available for use in always on equipment nor are there any special design techniques.... all that can be done is to fit high quality parts and to make sure that no components are being especially stressed or being used towards the limit of their ratings. This results in the longest possible life for a product, whether it's left on or not, but could hardly be construed as "designed to be left switched on". Beware of things you read in advertising, brochures and even instruction manuals which are often composed by advertising and marketing people and not engineers ;)
Maybe we should switch "designed to be left switched on" to the other way around. If components such resistors are operating above about 1/3rd their rating then we can say that the particular piece of equipment should not be left on 24/7.
Are we distinguishing between 'switched on' and 'in standby mode' ? I wouldm have thought if a piece of equipment has a standby mode it would be best left in that mode unless you were going away for the week.
Incidentally, I've never had any hi-fi equipment fail at switch on, not in almost 30 years and a ton of different kit.
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2013, 13:20
Are we distinguishing between 'switched on' and 'in standby mode' ? I wouldm have thought if a piece of equipment has a standby mode it would be best left in that mode unless you were going away for the week.
Incidentally, I've never had any hi-fi equipment fail at switch on, not in almost 30 years and a ton of different kit.
It had crossed my mind as to which the op meant yes....
It's true that if something is going to fail catastrophically then it's likely to happen at switch on. However, this is almost always due to a part that was on the way out or faulty anyway giving up the ghost and releasing the magic smoke that is put inside all electronic components during manufacture :D The switching on and off itself doesn't harm equipment or lessen it's lifespan unless it's very badly designed!
The way I look at it, if you are going to be using the hifi from time to time all day then leave it on all day. Otherwise switch it on maybe half an hour before a session or just use it from cold, then switch off when finished.
Oldpinkman
04-11-2013, 13:27
Are we distinguishing between 'switched on' and 'in standby mode' ? I wouldm have thought if a piece of equipment has a standby mode it would be best left in that mode unless you were going away for the week.
Incidentally, I've never had any hi-fi equipment fail at switch on, not in almost 30 years and a ton of different kit.
Nor have I. And the amplifier that needed it's capacitors replacing recently (Quad 405-2) had been left on for much of its life - not out of any philosophy, but for want of an on/off switch and an inaccessible location. I now have it (and all my hifi) plugged to one of these multi-way jobs where power is switched to the "slave" devices when the "master" socket draws current. So Pip on - everything on. Pip off - everything off.
Whilst I am sure others have valid alternative experiences, I was advised that the "warm up" time for a solid state device is the time it takes to get back to your chair, and I have never noticed any different (and yes I did do some experimenting)
Even Alan's valve phono stage, like my fender amp, sounds good from the moment the heaters glow (allow a minute maybe). :)
istari_knight
04-11-2013, 13:47
I always switch the hifi off when not in use. Isnt it odd the same company that recommends leaving everything switched on 24/7 also recommend a service every 10 years ?
Clive197
04-11-2013, 13:54
It had crossed my mind as to which the op meant yes....
Good point. The OP meant stand-by mode, but in fairness that is in the title of the thread. Though I have noted that some equipment I've owned is actually on while in so called stand-by mode. i.e. Linn LP12 when switched off would leave the PCB powered with no detriment even after 30yrs. I worked out the age by the serial no.
Here we go,absolute proof verging on fact :rolleyes: that an item left on will outlast one turned on and off....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light
:ner:
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2013, 18:07
I always switch the hifi off when not in use. Isnt it odd the same company that recommends leaving everything switched on 24/7 also recommend a service every 10 years ?
Very odd indeed :eyebrows:
My valve preamp only switches into standby there is no off, power is supplied to the heaters continually although high voltage is switched off,
Paul
Lodgesound
04-11-2013, 18:36
My valve preamp only switches into standby there is no off, power is supplied to the heaters continually although high voltage is switched off,
Paul
This is actually incredibly bad for the cathodes in the valves as if they are just heated with no HT present the electrons emitted are not drawn away from the cathode and simply "bombard it" eventually leading to cathode poisoning.
Arkless Electronics
04-11-2013, 18:50
This is actually incredibly bad for the cathodes in the valves as if they are just heated with no HT present the electrons emitted are not drawn away from the cathode and simply "bombard it" eventually leading to cathode poisoning.
Cathode poisoning is more of a problem in large transmitting valves but it is certainly not a good idea.... The emissivity of the cathode will still be reducing due to the cathode being permanently heated.
Here we go,absolute proof verging on fact :rolleyes: that an item left on will outlast one turned on and off....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light
:ner:
But it IS switched off 120 times a second!.
But it IS switched off 120 times a second!.
Spoilsport :unfair: :wetkipper:
istari_knight
04-11-2013, 20:00
The original Acoustic Research amplifier had a permanantly powered preamp section... If it was connected to the mains socket the preamp was on regardless of whether the amplifier power switch is on or off... Every single unserviced example of this amp now has completely shagged capacitors in the preamp section, coincidence ? I think not :)
Exactly the same thing with the Cyrus I & II phono sections, 10 years after manufacture most started making buzz/hum/gargling noises when the phono input was selected as they are permanently powered up regardless of whether the amps turned on or off = pooped power supply capacitors.
Oldpinkman
04-11-2013, 20:10
The original Acoustic Research amplifier had a permanantly powered preamp section... If it was connected to the mains socket the preamp was on regardless of whether the amplifier power switch is on or off... Every single unserviced example of this amp now has completely shagged capacitors in the preamp section, coincidence ? I think not :)
Exactly the same thing with the Cyrus I & II phono sections, 10 years after manufacture most started making buzz/hum/gargling noises when the phono input was selected as they are permanently powered up regardless of whether the amps turned on or off = pooped power supply capacitors.
You got any vacancies for junior staff Jez? ;)
RobbieGong
04-11-2013, 20:48
I wouldnt leave on permanantly (not standby but on). Logic (my own granted) tells me that that cant be good in the long run. If these things were meant to be permanantly left on due to definate benefit, then we'd hear manufacturers spouting that that was the case. Regular use is all these things need, they warm up after a few tunes, job done - dont take chances, especially with your amps :rolleyes:
I wouldnt leave on permanantly (not standby but on). Logic (my own granted) tells me that that cant be good in the long run. If these things were meant to be permanantly left on due to definate benefit, then we'd hear manufacturers spouting that that was the case. Regular use is all these things need, they warm up after a few tunes, job done - dont take chances, especially with your amps :rolleyes:
No choice with the DR5 Rob as it is not equipped with an on off switch. Of course I could unplug it from the wall however Classé state in their literature that it is best left on unless one is leaving the house for an extended period. I treat any power amps or integrated amps in the same manner as I have learnt from bitter experience that the stress of the power up cycle can wreak havoc with a solid state amp over time.
Arkless Electronics
05-11-2013, 00:11
You got any vacancies for junior staff Jez? ;)
:lolsign:
The cdp consumes 6w when idling and is on most of the time. The separate power supply is on permanently, there being no switch.
The pre. is valved so only on when in use.
The darTZeel is permanently trickle charged even when off - he designer says it's to prolong component life which should be 40 years + according to the handbook.
The headamp is switched off when not in use - the designer says to prolong component life.
So mixed messages here. Hope that helps....
Clive197
05-11-2013, 09:33
You got any vacancies for junior staff Jez? ;)
Ehh. Hands off you've got a job. :rolleyes:
Arkless Electronics
05-11-2013, 11:09
The cdp consumes 6w when idling and is on most of the time. The separate power supply is on permanently, there being no switch.
The pre. is valved so only on when in use.
The darTZeel is permanently trickle charged even when off - he designer says it's to prolong component life which should be 40 years + according to the handbook.
The headamp is switched off when not in use - the designer says to prolong component life.
So mixed messages here. Hope that helps....
I'll just say again read a few electrolytic capacitor data sheets.... they all specify a minimum lifespan in hours for the cap, most commonly 2000 hours for standard everyday quality types. This figure is specified at the maximum rated temperature for the cap and in practice they last loads longer...
Oldpinkman
05-11-2013, 11:19
I'll just say again read a few electrolytic capacitor data sheets.... they all specify a minimum lifespan in hours for the cap, most commonly 2000 hours for standard everyday quality types. This figure is specified at the maximum rated temperature for the cap and in practice they last loads longer...
And when my Quad 405 which had been left on needed recapping, one board was significantly (10x) worse than the other. The bad board was the one which got hottest! :cool:
Arkless Electronics
05-11-2013, 11:36
And when my Quad 405 which had been left on needed recapping, one board was significantly (10x) worse than the other. The bad board was the one which got hottest! :cool:
Theory and practice working together... whatever next!? :D
I see we use very similar (and rare) Technics cartridges! EPC300MC here ;)
I'll just say again read a few electrolytic capacitor data sheets.... they all specify a minimum lifespan in hours for the cap, most commonly 2000 hours for standard everyday quality types. This figure is specified at the maximum rated temperature for the cap and in practice they last loads longer...
Maybe so, but my 12 year old clock radio by the bed has been going faultlessly 24/7. Must have cost about £20. Been wishing it to pack up for years to give me an excuse to replace it. Presume it's got electrolytic thingies in it too, presumably the cheapest known to Man...
Arkless Electronics
05-11-2013, 12:29
Maybe so, but my 12 year old clock radio by the bed has been going faultlessly 24/7. Must have cost about £20. Been wishing it to pack up for years to give me an excuse to replace it. Presume it's got electrolytic thingies in it too, presumably the cheapest known to Man...
Same here... Gradual degradation effecting sound quality is not really a concern there though! It runs cold as well which helps matters hugely. The caps wear approximately 10 times faster for every doubling in temperature!
Oldpinkman
05-11-2013, 13:04
Theory and practice working together... whatever next!? :D
I see we use very similar (and rare) Technics cartridges! EPC300MC here ;)
Ah Yes - my gramaphone needle from Arizona. I am still on the trail of a good MM U205C Mk3 though...:)
Yeah guys, do as your friendly repairman says, continue to turn your gear on and off and he will thank you for lining his pockets...
I most definitely subscribe to leaving equipment switched on for best reliability. That certainly works with computers, too. For instance, servers, which are never turned off, last a lot longer than workstations as a rule.
I particularly leave my preamp and source components powered up as they take the longest time to come on song from cold.
Some measurements for my system:
Total system idle consumption: 100W
Of which Chord power amp: 40W
Chord standby consumption: 5W
So I leave the system on now, with the exception of the Chord which I leave on standby.
My system draws about the same as yours Martin, about 60W...
My Karan does not have a StdBy switch... Only a primary circuit breaker on the back...
My stuff is left in stdby state at all times except when going for holidays or similar.
That does NOT apply to my olde Luxman amps which are partailly or fully class A, that would be mightily expensive!
( the L-560 consumes some 350W in idle state!!!!!)
An item that needs some three-five days to come on song is the phonostages, both the Tom Evans and the Lehmann Black cube.
My belief is that everything but the power amps should be left in on or stdby at all times, the lower power consumption, the longer time to come on song.
When it comes to power amps, things may vary. I wouldnt leave a Krell Class A on at all times, any more than a valve unit... ;)
Regards Mike
Au contraire
The ‘Colossus’ code braking computer 'worked' consistently because it was left on all the time. The BBC leave much of their audio amplifiers on permanently, as do many recording studios.
Electronic circuits do not like being switched on and off repeatedly. Thermionic valve gear draws more current than solid state gear, so is best turned off when not in use. However, if you can afford to do so, leave as much as your solid-state gear on as you can manage.
My Quad ESLs, apart from two moves and a few power cuts, have been powered-up constantly for thirty years. My preamps (Mark Levinson ML 25/26 and 28) are left powered up, but my power amps (Quad 405 or Levinson ML-2s (Class A mono-block amps that consume 400W standing power)) are obviously switched off when not in use
Arkless Electronics
12-11-2013, 10:56
Au contraire
The ‘Colossus’ code braking computer 'worked' consistently because it was left on all the time. The BBC leave much of their audio amplifiers on permanently, as do many recording studios.
Electronic circuits do not like being switched on and off repeatedly. Thermionic valve gear draws more current than solid state gear, so is best turned off when not in use. However, if you can afford to do so, leave as much as your solid-state gear on as you can manage.
My Quad ESLs, apart from two moves and a few power cuts, have been powered-up constantly for thirty years. My preamps (Mark Levinson ML 25/26 and 28) are left powered up, but my power amps (Quad 405 or Levinson ML-2s (Class A mono-block amps that consume 400W standing power)) are obviously switched off when not in use
We'll have to agree to disagree....
istari_knight
12-11-2013, 11:07
We'll have to agree to disagree....
You may want to make that your signature :D
I'm actually quite shocked by how many leave gear turned on, I'd never have guessed.
Arkless Electronics
12-11-2013, 11:13
You may want to make that your signature :D
I'm actually quite shocked by how many leave gear turned on, I'd never have guessed.
Maybe!? I do completely disagree with much of what has become "accepted wisdom" amongst audiophools... but certainly not amongst engineers! ;) I'm on a one man crusade for the truth.... but they "can't handle the truth" :D
If leaving my gear on makes me an 'audiophool' then I am more than happy to accept the label, my personal experiences in this matter fly in the face of your argument Jez, therefore I will continue to leave the lights burning. Thanks :)
Arkless Electronics
12-11-2013, 12:37
If leaving my gear on makes me an 'audiophool' then I am more than happy to accept the label, my personal experiences in this matter fly in the face of your argument Jez, therefore I will continue to leave the lights burning. Thanks :)
Your gear and your electricity bill.... up to you. I still want everyone to leave their gear on so I get more work :D
Yes, I balked at being called an audiophool too - I leave my gear on for 'sound' reasons and it allows me to get music going instantly when I return home from work.
As for reliability, I can quote my experience from work: our servers are powered on 24/7 in some cases going on for 10 years. They are exceptionally reliable compared with workstations which are powered off every night. This is due to the power supplies running constantly and the mechanicals like hard disks not stopping. Capacitors like a constant charge. It's heat that's the killer - thus class A amp failures.
I'm on a one man crusade for the truth.... but they "can't handle the truth" :D
Do you deride their truth-handling ability, Jez?
Arkless Electronics
12-11-2013, 13:32
Do what you like folks ...as I'm sure you all will... As I keep on saying, I'm all in favour of gear being left on as it makes more work for me! (yes seriously).
I'll also say YET AGAIN read manufacturers specifications for electrolytic capacitors!
End of debate for me..... :goodbye:
This has nothing to do with either opinion being valid or not Jez, it's your inability to respect the opinions and experiences of others which is in question here and it seems to be a recurring theme, re: your valves vs transistors debate with Marco. There is also your questionable remark aimed at Bev (Ninanina) on one of her threads re: Violins & Vanessa Mae, which you might do well to apologize for as it was not only sexist but quite disgusting to boot... :rolleyes:
http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?27350-So-Who-s-Still-Up-And-Why&p=499449#post499449
You can say it 'til you're blue in the face, Jez. Some of us aren't agreeing with you.
realysm42
12-11-2013, 14:48
Personally, I don't like your condascending attitude, just because my beliefs are different to yours Jez. There's enough mixed evidence in here from different sides of opinion to show the split; I don't call you a 'phool' for it.
Pathetic.
Arkless Electronics
12-11-2013, 15:16
It's not about "beliefs" folks. Do you lot know more about plumbing than a plumber? More about medicine than a doctor?
I do this professionally and have done for more years than I care to count... my experience is based on 1000's of amplifiers, not on having owned half a dozen or whatever (I've also worked as a design engineer in hifi and in R+D in other areas of electronics) :exactly: In many of these debates I guess I'm trying to share a bit of my knowledge and experience to educate a little on various matters which have become "accepted wisdom", often due to vested interest rather than because they have any basis in fact. Pardon me for thinking that was something that would be welcomed.....
Maybe in future when I see total rubbish on the subject of electronics being posted (In general. Not just this thread) I should leave it unchallenged.... or maybe not...
Jez, give it a rest now, mate. Remember what we discussed on the phone about the 'know it all' attitude? Well, it's starting to rear its ugly head again... :rolleyes:
If you've chosen to be a regular part of this community, I'm afraid you're going to have to accept the fact that people here have their own long-established and justified opinions in audio, which no matter who you are (audio engineer or the King of England), no-one here is going to listen to you if they don't think you're right!
Therefore, I insist that when offering your opinion in any discussion here, you present it as that and nothing more, and if people don't agree, you simply leave it there, 'agree to disagree' with them, and walk away, as your continual argumentativeness and desire to be right is no longer acceptable.
Above all, you must remember that this is predominantly a subjectivist forum, and so if you want to fit in here, long-term, you're going to have to make allowances for the fact that your rather objectivist mentality, on many matters relating to audio, is likely to be somewhat different from that of the majority of our members.
Therefore, it's up to YOU to fit in with the forum ethos (which you would do well to read, if you haven't already done so: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?17-The-basics-of-Ethos), NOT try to make others change their opinions to suit what you consider is right.
I trust that I've made myself clear. Furthermore, this matter is not up for debate. You either accept it, and temper your responses in future to people accordingly, or go. The decision is yours. I don't want to lose you, as I value your contributions, but I feel even more strongly about having to manage the aggro you're causing.
Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
Arkless Electronics
12-11-2013, 16:08
Jez, give it a rest now, mate. Remember what we discussed on the phone about the 'know it all' attitude? Well, it's starting to rear its ugly head again... :rolleyes:
If you've chosen to be a regular part of this community, I'm afraid you're going to have to accept the fact that people here have their own long-established and justified opinions in audio, which no matter who you are (audio engineer or the King of England), no-one here is going to listen to you if they don't think you're right!
Therefore, I insist that when offering your opinion in any discussion here, you present it as that and nothing more, and if people don't agree, you simply leave it there, 'agree to disagree' with them, and walk away, as your continual argumentativeness and desire to be right is no longer acceptable.
Above all, you must remember that this is predominantly a subjectivist forum, and so if you want to fit in here, long-term, you're going to have to make allowances for the fact that your rather objectivist mentality, on many matters relating to audio, is likely to be somewhat different from that of the majority of our members.
Therefore, it's up to YOU to fit in with the forum ethos (which you would do well to read, if you haven't already done so: http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?17-The-basics-of-Ethos), NOT try to make others change their opinions to suit what you consider is right.
I trust that I've made myself clear. Furthermore, this matter is not up for debate. You either accept it, and temper your responses in future to people accordingly, or go. The decision is yours. I don't want to lose you, as I value your contributions, but I feel even more strongly about having to manage the aggro you're causing.
Cheers! :cool:
Marco.
Please yourself Marco. All I'm trying to do is differentiate between uneducated opinion and scientific fact. It's obviously fine, or even encouraged, to talk rubbish on matters one has little or no knowledge of but BANG OUT OF ORDER to attempt to explain the facts of the matter based on a life times professional experience of the subject under discussion. As with the pfm forum I will largely stick to discussing my own stuff in future..... So if any one has any technical enquiry they better PM me as talking with the authority of having specialist knowledge of a subject is against the rules.....
:cool:
No, that is not against the rules at all. What is against the rules is you preaching to people and insisting on always having the last word!
Whether you are wrong or right, Jez, is not the issue.
The issue is knowing when to back off and simply accept that you're not going to change someone's mind who strongly disagrees with you (even if, technically, you are right). Therefore, having failed to 'educate' someone, you will have to learn to back off when a discussion has reached that point, and leave it there.
Furthermore, on this forum, you are not the arbiter of what is considered as "rubbish".
Ok?
Marco.
P.S I need you to sort out the matter pertaining to your trade account before Friday, at the very latest, otherwise you will lose your trade status and the right to advertise or discuss your products here.
anthonyTD
17-11-2013, 11:15
Hi All,
Only just noticed this thread, as far as capacitors are concerned, and semiconductors in general, the surge from continually switching equipment on and off is in itself very damaging, and in an ideal world, and all in my own opinion, i would say that it is kinder to leave certain types of equipment on, however, as Jez has pointed out, capacitors have a shelf life, and therefore will eventually fail from use, now' how long they will last is subject to their application, and heat is the main killer, Electrolytic s are graded in hours versus temperature, as an example, if you choose a cap with say a 2000hr life span at say 105c, then you can be sure that if that cap is run at a much more conservative temperature, say for example, 40c, then it will probably last many tens of thousands of hours, now, you would have to take into account other key parameters, like voltage and current etc, but i think you will get my drift, the more conservative you run a cap in a circuit from its manufacture maximum spec, the easier life it will have, and therefore, the longer it will last...
Electrolytic capacitors fail naturally eventually due mainly to the electrolyte drying out, and degradation of the foil layers etc.
Hope this helps.
Anthony,TD...
I keep my kit on all the time, especially in cold weather...
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