Directional cables

[esperowl]

Hi, apologies for this numpty question (still learning).
I've just noticed that two of my interconnects have arrows on them. Which way should they be pointing?
Specifically, in which direction if the i/c is between the phonostage and preamp?
Which way between the preamp and power amp?
Thanks.

[Oldpinkman]

You won't break anything plugging them in "the wrong way". There is a fair bit of discussion about how cables can be directional since the music signals in electricity flow both ways up and down the cable broadly the same.
There is a possibility that the effectiveness of the shielding depends on which end of the cable the screen is connected to, but my mate who knows thinks the effect wouldn't cause him to lose sleep.

So - just for fun, try them both ways and tell us what you think. Do you appear to notice a difference?

The "right way", to answer your question, is from source to speakers. So preamp to power amp would be arrows pointing at the power amp ;)

[Marco]

Hi Chang,

If you believe in the concept of directionality, then on the ICs between your phonostage and preamp, the arrows should be pointing away from the source (the phonostage) and heading towards the next component in the signal path (the preamp).

The same principle applies between the preamp and power amp, so the arrows on the ICs should point away from the preamp and be heading towards the power amp.

However, nothing here is 'written in stone', so try the cables both ways round and see if you can hear a difference. If so, select the directionality that sounds best to your ears, as it may differ from what the manufacturer has marked on the cables! ;)

Marco.

[esperowl]

Thanks guys.
Thinking about it, I can't see why the direction would make a difference so long as negative charges move through the wire, right?
I'll have a play. Cheers.

[Oldpinkman]

You are (almost certainly) right. Music is an AC signal. The electricity flows one way and pushes the speaker cone out, and then turns round and flows the other way, pulling the speaker cone in, and out, and in.... So the "direction" of the cable should make no difference. Certainly with speaker cables.
Shielded interconnects might be slightly different, in that their shielding design would optimally have the ground connection at one end. But I doubt you would notice. I haven't yet.

[Marco]

Thanks guys.
Thinking about it, I can't see why the direction would make a difference so long as negative charges move through the wire, right?
I'll have a play. Cheers.

Nice one. Please report the results, as I'm sure that many people would find them interesting :)

Marco.

[icehockeyboy]

I have to say that it's very reassuring to find answers posted that don't shoot the poor old OP out of the water just because it isn't the first time the question has been asked!

I won't mention that place that would! :D

[DSJR]

My experience is that SOME interconnects are noticeably directional, at least when new, and others most definitely not, and price has nowt to do with it!

My advice is to use these cables with the arrows on each cable pointing the same way, whatever that is. This will minimise any possible differences, however big or small they are in reality.

The things I look out for when checking direction is the reproduction of reverb, and also treble quality in general. On SOME interconnects I've used, the sound becomes more 'etched' and dryer one way round, and more lush and reverberant (if it's there in the recording) the other way. My experiences obviously and others may find other differences - or none at all of course :)

Just use both with arrows the same way and forget about it. There's some subjective evidence to suggest that 'direction' can become irrelevant once the stuff is used regularly for a few months anyway :lol:

[Oldpinkman]

My experience is that SOME interconnects are noticeably directional, at least when new, and others most definitely not, and price has nowt to do with it!

My advice is to use these cables with the arrows on each cable pointing the same way, whatever that is. This will minimise any possible differences, however big or small they are in reality.

The things I look out for when checking direction is the reproduction of reverb, and also treble quality in general. On SOME interconnects I've used, the sound becomes more 'etched' and dryer one way round, and more lush and reverberant (if it's there in the recording) the other way. My experiences obviously and others may find other differences - or none at all of course :)

Just use both with arrows the same way and forget about it. There's some subjective evidence to suggest that 'direction' can become irrelevant once the stuff is used regularly for a few months anyway :lol:

Dave. I'm fascinated. As I noted before, a music signal consists of electricity travelling in both directions down a cable. Would this directional element you notice pass the dust-sheet test? That is, if I cover up the cables, so you don't know which way they are connected, and choose the direction to plug them in at random (with a dice) you could accurately record which direction the cables are connected?

Lets be clear. If you (or anyone else) pops down here with a dust sheet and a dice, and covers up my pre-amps so I don't know which I am listening to, both Mrs S and I independantly will score 10 out of 10 or 100 out of 100 on a similar test.

Now could you do that with cable direction?

[DSJR]

I accept what you say, but if you took, say, the old Chord Co 'Solid' which was unmarked in its first generation, brand new and unused, out of the packing, the difference was so marked that the stereo image could shift or skew in the midrange and treble if one of the two cables was the 'wrong way round.' I also believe these cables sorted themselves out as they were used, but of course, I have no objective data to back up what I heard, although I'm sure some of this could be measured - amazing how cable behaviour at RF seems to have some effect on domestic audio, at least back in the early 90's when I worried about such things.

Using better known coax cables. the Van Damme tour grade stuff is a tiny bit directional, but I'd be darned to reliably identify one way from t'other. The Atratus interconnect sounds 'strange' to me regardless of direction :rolleyes: and I can't say I can hear anything with the standard Mark Grant HD1000 cable either, although I'm not 'switched on' to these things any more. My 2m (approx) Belkins sounded ever-so-slightly brighter one way round, but again, after half an hour it became irrelevant in the wide scheme of things.

Does this help? I'm so glad I'm not as fixated on these things any more and shall never be a 'good' customer of MCRU, as my musical tastes, gear, finances and ears just aren't 'into' all this fancy-foo stuff w@nked over in certain threads on here.

[realysm42]

Should we not say what we think about new gear, even if we enjoy it Dave?

[Oldpinkman]

Hi Dave
Let's stay clear of foo bashing. My question was one of genuine interest. Such science as I know (or believe in really - cos I don't understand it on a true personal level) tells me cables shouldn't make the diferrences people claim. I don't personally hear those differences when I experiment (although I hear some cable differences in some situations). Having got in such a hoo-hah about this I am now genuinely interested in seeing what I am missing.

Essentially _ I'm with you. I am happy with my music the way I hear it, and lose no sleep worrying about whether a cable change would help. But the extent of the claims for cable performance, and the extent of the fuss caused by me questioning it leaves me genuinely curious to see a proper demo of what can be heard. I'm not looking to confront or challenge anyone, but simply to express my interest and curiosity given the extent of the fuss made.

And I don't think it needs any objective data (although plainly that would be one route). It just needs my dust-sheet and dice demo, and leave the scientists to work out what they are missing. But what continues to surprise me, given the fact this is a hot topic for so many, and not just me, is that nobody seems to have done a dust-sheet and dice demo and settled the issue once and for all.

So I was just clarifying.

:)

[losenotaminute]

This article:
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/cable-and-interconnect-construction/
explains some of the "science" behind cables, although I would have to add that most of the effects mentioned only affect high frequency signals (i.e. not audible).

I have never personally noticed any difference by changing the direction and if there is an effect I think it is bound to be very small.

Lawrence

[synsei]

What is abundantly clear is that some seem to be more sensitive to this than others. For myself, it first became apparent to me that cables can sound different when I swapped out yer typical cheapo IC's for a set of Ixos 103's, at least I think that's what they were, t'was a very long time ago and the old grey matter ain't what it used to be. The difference was quite simply staggering, like someone had opened a door and wheeled me into the room. The Ixos IC's were supposedly directional but I'd be damned if I could detect the difference if they were connected in reverse. These days if an IC is marked as directional I just follow the manufacturers destructions and hook them up as suggested.

[Clive197]

What is abundantly clear is that some seem to be more sensitive to this than others. For myself, it first became apparent to me that cables can sound different when I swapped out yer typical cheapo IC's for a set of Ixos 103's, at least I think that's what they were, t'was a very long time ago and the old grey matter ain't what it used to be. The difference was quite simply staggering, like someone had opened a door and wheeled me into the room. The Ixos IC's were supposedly directional but I'd be damned if I could detect the difference if they were connected in reverse. These days if an IC is marked as directional I just follow the manufacturers destructions and hook them up as suggested.

Totally agree. I have never heard a difference but do have my cables all going in the same direction as makers suggest. It's good housekeeping.
An interesting point I heard about secondhand IC's is that they should be used in the same direction as the original owner used them. If unknown it may take a little longer for the cable to give its best. I've never put that to the test but.......
When I used to need to set up dems in the shop I rarely checked for AV but did when doing a HiFi dem.