Bright System

[Trist]

My setup:

M-DAC (latest firmware)
QED Performance RCA
Arcam AVR360
QED Silver Anni bi-amp
B&W CM8 speakers
MacBook Pro running iTunes with bit perfect(all songs flac ripped from CDs at highest quality)
Wireworld Ultraviolet USB
Tacima mains block conditioner

I find the system very detailed and nice but I find the treble a bit too harsh and out of control most times, makes listening unbearable with fatuge! I have had a Arcam rDAC before this and that was just the same but with less detail and punch! Also a Arcam CD92 and various Sony VA555ES, VA777ES and Denon 1910 AV amps. Also tried B&W 602 and 685 and acoustic energy Evo 3 speakers. My amp is set to bass and treble 0db, but always had bright problems. Makes some songs unbearable to listen to!

The only thing that's been with my on my system since day 1 is the QED speaker cable! Could it be this!

My room is well furnished but it has modern wooden floors which doesn't help either! I have got a big rug in the middle of the room.

Help!

[jollyfix]

I have used the QED s a biwire cable, and found it to have been the problem in my system at the time, as in it being to bright.

[Frankyc2003]

My 'guts feeling' here is that you have a bit of a synergy issue.
You are probably right here about the I/Cs and Speaker'c cable.

A very easy and cheap trick a dealer told me a while ago is to replace your speaker's cable with basic B&Q electrical wiring...
It's damn cheap and you will (hopefully) very quickly see the difference in terms of tonal balance in your system.

If it fails to cure your sibilance problem, you can also have a look at software EQing, since your main source is a computer. I am not sure if Itunes has a software EQ, but surely there is free plug ins for it... (again not my area of expertise as I run a PC, but my system was lacking bass heft, and a simple software EQ within Jriver helped the problem tenthfold!). Look into the 12 kHz and above and see if you can cut them by small increments (-0.5dB) if possible.

Basically 2 cheap and easy steps to (hopefully) cure an overtly bright system.

Best of luck;)

[Stratmangler]

all songs flac ripped from CDs at highest quality

Can you define "highest quality" please?
FLAC is FLAC, only the level of compression varies.

I have no personal experience of your speaker cable, but there are plenty here who will tell you to get rid of it.

[Macca]

Bright is not the same as harsh so I would not get the two confused. A system can be very toppy and still exhibit no harshness so it's not the same thing. Definitely try another speaker cable first as a lot of people describe the QED SA as too bright, but if that doesn't solve the problem then you will need to look to the amplification. Harsh sound is usually, IME, the amp clipping. Your speakers look very capable but they won't be an easy load for an amplifier especially if you like to knock the volume up a bit - which I suspect you do or you wouldn't have bought those speakers :)

[Andrei]

Can you define "highest quality" please?
FLAC is FLAC, only the level of compression varies.
I have no personal experience of your speaker cable, but there are plenty here who will tell you to get rid of it.

I think the OP means 16bit 44.1Khz, commonly referred to as 'CD Quality'.

@Trist: I would be very surprised if the cable was the problem. I am in the 'cables make a difference' camp but it is small cheese compared to other issues - Room, Components, Synergy. If you were running a PC I could give a few tips. I would tinker with the Mac first as it seems the most likely culprit and also it would be the least expensive option. Next I would try different speakers as I have heard of some having issues with the B&W tweater.

[Trist]

Thanks very much guys for your replies! Very helpful!

As in high quality flac, I meant ripped uncompressed from CDs. So 16bit 44.1.

I would agree with you on the amp clipping, but as it's the same on every amp I'm not sure then. The sony 555 & 777 were much more powerful than the arcam, but I had the same problem there :( and you are right again, I do crank the volume up :)

I'm tempted to pop down to b&q and get some stranded mains cable haha cheap option :)

I could try and fiddle on the mac, trick is there's so much different software :)

[jollyfix]

Where in Wales are you Tristram?

[Macca]

I know absolutely nothing about computer audio so Andrei may be right for all I know and the problem may well lie there. If you can hook up a cd player (olde worlde I know) play a few discs through that and see if you have the same issue that will tell you where to start. If CD also sounds harsh then it's not the computer. The Sony ES amps are rated but they are not powerhouses when it comes to current delivery so I wouldn't place too much faith in them. You could change the speakers for something easier to drive but speakers are the biggest ball ache to swap. I'd keep 'em and get kit that works with them. After all B&W do not design their speakers to sound harsh (bright maybe, but not harsh) so they are unliley to be the culprit here. But first - swap the cable for anything - 79 strand from Maplin, doesn't matter, as that is a very cheap experiment and will eliminate a variable if nothing else.

[Stratmangler]

http://www.diy.com/nav/fix/electrical/electrical-cable/flexible_cable/Tower-Flex-Artic-3-Core-479819-Blue-2-5mm-x-10m-9290558?skuId=9300257

[Andrew B]

Maybe try borrowing a couple of bits to swap in and out. Someone on here local to you may be able to help. At least it costs you nothing and it should give you a bit more perspective.

[jollyfix]

Maybe try borrowing a couple of bits to swap in and out. Someone on here local to you may be able to help. At least it costs you nothing and it should give you a bit more perspective.
Agree, thats why i asked about where in Wales are you. I have many friends in Wales who may be able to help.

[Frankyc2003]

Macca's suggestion to plug in a Cd player in your system is a very good one.
That will bring to light any change in terms of tonal balance.

[Trist]

I'm in the Swansea area :)

I haven't got a CD player anymore. But 2-3 months ago I had a Arcam CD82 and CD92 and same result as I have now.

Thanks for the link :)

[jollyfix]

Swansea, damm, sorry i cant help there. I love the Gower though.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Hi!

Your question:

The only thing that's been with my on my system since day 1 is the QED speaker cable! Could it be this!

Yes!

The AoS archive is littered with incredulous posts from recently joined members who took the advice to dump the QED SA - it's always the last thing they would have considered changing. After all, how could it be this .... it's had so many good reviews - right? The change away from SA is almost always beneficial. I can only think of one instance where someone stuck with it.
You really owe it to yourself to try something else, if only to eliminate the possibility that it's the source of the problem. Apart from anything else, it's the cheapest change you're likely to try.

[walpurgis]

Swansea, damm, sorry i cant help there. I love the Gower though.

Gower? Lovely place, very fond of Oxwich & Three Cliffs. I have family in Oystermouth & Mumbles.

[synsei]

Replacing the QED SA cable will go a long way towards solving your issues ;)

[jollyfix]

Gower? Lovely place, very fond of Oxwich & Three Cliffs. I have family in Oystermouth & Mumbles.

I used to have family in the Swansea area too, Uplands, and by sketty park. We would be down the Gower all the time, three cliffs is so beautiful. I used to like Llangennith also, but heard over several years now it has gone all surf crazy. My mate Marco and his family built an ice cream parlour on the Mumbles called Verdi's, very popular, but he has now moved back to Bristol. My uncle had a butchers on the Mumble mile .

[Trist]

Ha ha thanks guys. I will get some electric cable from b&q or maplin :)

Thanks for the gower comments. It is nice, although I'm not from this's area I'm more from the west new quay way. Might if heard of that place too ;)

Thanks again everyone :)

[jollyfix]

Keep us posted Trist.:popcorn:

[walpurgis]

Replacing the QED SA cable will go a long way towards solving your issues ;)

Absolutely, I have used it and it imparts a coarseness and brightness to the sound. Swapping this for something a bit more civilised sounding should be your first move, then you may be able to evaluate the rest of your system more accurately. Changing speaker cables is likely to be your cheapest first move in any case.

Incidentally, when I changed my QED cables (years ago now), I bought some Nordost Flatline cheaply second hand and the difference was a revelation! The Nordost can be a little bright too, but it sounds 'clean'. I have many speaker cables, but I've hung onto the Flatline as it is good.

[Trist]

Got some tower cable from b&q. They didn't have 4 core or 2.5mm.

So had to get 3 core 1.5mm. Cheap at £10. We'll see how it goes. I assume 1.5mm compared to 2.5mm will bottleneck the system?

[Frankyc2003]

not necessarily... I use 3 cores 1.5mm at the moment... from B&Q
and guess what it doesn't feel like there is any form of bottleneck...

[Trist]

Oh fair enough then :)

If this will work I'll be looking out for a 4 core one for bi-amp

[Trist]

So installed the b&q cable and...... RESULT!! Harshness gone!! It's seems more neutral too! Bass is more progressive maybe that's because the top end and mid range isn't so forward and more neutral!

Next job is to find a 4 core one for bi-amp! :)

[jollyfix]

:thumbsup: Onwards and upwards.

[Macca]

I love it when a plan comes together.

[realysm42]

Qed have a lot to answer for :lol:

[Mr Kipling]

Oh I do like a happy ending.

[Frankyc2003]

Fab!
I am glad it worked...

Get 2 more runs of 3 cores, twist and secure ends with heatshrink, terminate with what you fancy.

[Trist]

Might do that. A trip to b&q on the cards lunchtime I reckon!

I might solder the ends, I had banana plugs on the QED, but I never moved the speakers so I could leave the wire soldered and screwed into the terminal posts.

Once again thanks for all your help everyone! :)

[Trist]

Wouldn't let me edit the above.

I would prefer a 4 core cable for neatness, I've looked on eBay just in case I can't find any in maplin or b&q in town tomorrow.

I can get a 2.5mm 4 core 10m for around £20. But I've found a van damme 4 core 2.5mm but for £40! Is the van damme worth the extra outlay as it's just basically copper wire!?

[PaulStewart]

Hi Trist,

I will confess to being a Van Damme fan boy for pro audio, we have two custom made looms to connect TV cameras to ENG/EFP mixers. All our location mic cables are now from them and both our edit suites at the office use Van Damme, for interconnects and speaker cables on the passive monitors, the BBC use it as standard these days too. In fact, in my opinion its the best studio cable around and again in my opinion worth the money. I too have tried various QED cables, I still have several metres of 25th Anniversary stuck in a cupboard, I really should get rid of it as I find it very sharp and coarse, maybe I should put it on the dragon in laws system, perfect match really. ;)

best regards

[DSJR]

QED SA was a disaster and it's dynamically flat and tinny presentation only got awards year after year as it livened up some truly dire '5 Star' WTF systems back then. trouble is, Sevenoaks shops especially sold many hundreds of drums of the stuff purely by the awards, but my gawd it's crap!!!!!!!

[PaulStewart]

but my gawd it's crap!!!!!!!

Good point, well made +1 to that :)

[Yomanze]

Qed have a lot to answer for :lol:

Yes, and I believe it'll be measurable too, as there's such a common consensus regarding this cable...

[RobbieGong]

SA not so good, QED Silver Spiral is a very different ball game ;)

[realysm42]

It was my first 'high-end' cable too. Biwired some wharfedale programme 50s into my Cambridge audio amp. Would love to hear that setup now :lol:

[walpurgis]

SA not so good, QED Silver Spiral is a very different ball game ;)

Oh yes, Silver Spiral Genesis is one of the best moderately sanely priced speaker cables around. Shame it's so thick and stiff (no jokes please), it's awkward to use! I've got some Transparent Audio speaker cable that looks like two core mains lead, but sounds just as good as my Silver Spiral, but it's thin and very flexible, so I tend to use that more.

[RobbieGong]

Oh yes, Silver Spiral Genesis is one of the best moderately sanely priced speaker cables around. Shame it's so thick and stiff (no jokes please), it's awkward to use! I've got some Transparent Audio speaker cable that looks like two core mains lead, but sounds just as good as my Silver Spiral, but it's thin and very flexible, so I tend to use that more.

Yep ! No excuse that the SA sold for as low as £4.50 in some places because we know there's similarly priced cable that sounds good and far more neutral. The Silver Spiral goes for £31.50 pm (I paid far less on the used market thank God - result !!) so was bound to be better really and is very good. I know a member who loved the SS and then went from that to Atlas Mavras speaker cable which is some very exotic speaker cable with a very exotic price tag :eek:

[icehockeyboy]

Hi Trist,

I will confess to being a Van Damme fan boy for pro audio, we have two custom made looms to connect TV cameras to ENG/EFP mixers. All our location mic cables are now from them and both our edit suites at the office use Van Damme, for interconnects and speaker cables on the passive monitors, the BBC use it as standard these days too. In fact, in my opinion its the best studio cable around and again in my opinion worth the money. I too have tried various QED cables, I still have several metres of 25th Anniversary stuck in a cupboard, I really should get rid of it as I find it very sharp and coarse, maybe I should put it on the dragon in laws system, perfect match really. ;)

best regards

If you like Van Damme so much, how come you don't use it in your home system? :)

[PaulStewart]

If you like Van Damme so much, how come you don't use it in your home system? :)

Because as I said "I LIKE IT FOR PRO AUDIO", it's good neutral, workhorse stuff and when you have loads of speaker runs etc. Also cost/benefit has to come into it for the edit suites. The 35 metre multicore between the edit suites cost enough in Van Damme, if we'd done it in Siversound it would have cost thousands. Likewise the camera looms get worn out and as they are location stuff, can get damaged, even if these kind of components were available in silver, sadly it wouldn't make commercial sense.

As it happens, I'm restoring a GL78 which I plan to use with a pair of modded Frugel horns (Fostex main drivers with JVC Zero ribbon horns used as super tweeters) and an old unbranded valve pre/ power amp I got in a jumble sale for a tenner :) This system will almost certainly be used with Van Damme i/cs and speaker cable as I work on it at least. Once it's installed in the bedroom, that may change. The OP wanted to know how to tame a system using QED SA, on a budget Van Damme is ideal. :)