View Full Version : Apple
So as you are probably aware from my signature, I am an avid Apple fan, and this is purely and simply because their products do what they say on the tin... they are for the consumer market... Yes, if you are a die-hard IT techie you will probably hate their designs because they make it purposely make it difficult for you to 'tinker' with them, but if you just want to access the internet, connect to a business network or anything else for that matter they are great machines, be it one of their tablets, a iMac or one of their larger desktop machines... they are consistently reliable, using Unix as their backbone (well for the PC's etc, not sure it is true of the tablets and phones) and use excellent design principles allowing them to be easy on the eye... personally, I 'HAVE' to use a PC at work, but if it were me, I'd take an Apple Mac over a PC every time.
Paul.
Andrew B
22-10-2013, 22:46
Agree 100%
A pleasure to use, beautifully designed and incredibly tactile. Apple get my vote (and my cash) every time.
Audio Al
22-10-2013, 22:48
+2
:sofa:
Never used any of their hardware so can't really comment other than to say it all seems a bit overpriced :scratch:
sq225917
22-10-2013, 23:35
Yeh, a bit like that OS that they gave away free today...
Yeh, a bit like that OS that they gave away free today...
That's not hardware is it :scratch:
Never used any of their hardware so can't really comment other than to say it all seems a bit overpriced :scratch:
I always thought the same until I borrowed a friends imac. I now have my own iMac, Air and Pad!
They just work, well.
Val
Thing Fish
23-10-2013, 00:06
I have used PC's for most of my life and indeed use one now at work, but my web building days were all done using a Mac and unlike my various PC's it never ever let me down.
Were I ever to have the spare funds again it would be Mac all the way. As stated before - they just work...!!!
Oldpinkman
23-10-2013, 05:40
They have robust design, an intuitive interface if u aren't migrating to them, attractive aesthetics, premium (ultra premium) price tags, and very poor compatibility with business use. Business generic and bespoke software is written for pc and needs an emulator on a mac which is pants.
Their arrogance means their brilliant tablet, and other mobile devices, whose significant if not primary function is web browsing, can't access a large percentage of web material unless jaikbroken, which undermines the proprietary systems protection and complicates os upgrades.
Occasionally they have software unique to their platform, like garage band, which is so good it makes a case for apple against all tge negatives.
They have robust design, an intuitive interface if u aren't migrating to them, attractive aesthetics, premium (ultra premium) price tags, and very poor compatibility with business use. Business generic and bespoke software is written for pc and needs an emulator on a mac which is pants.
Agree with the first part, took me a while to convert from Windows to a 10.6.x MB air but once I got my head around the differences I've not looked back. I use a lot of OS in my job and the Mac is by far the easiest to use IMHO as a desktop OS. However, I disagree with the Business generic software point, yes on occasions there can be some compatibility issues when a bespoke application is written for a set platform only and we do have some of these at work but that is just poor / lazy programming. With the move to managed services (cloud) any service that is not cross platform compatible is useless junk unless its done on purpose to lock your user base down to a single platform.
All our general business applications we use in our company are compatible across platforms and I can access them all perfectly OK from my Mac, although we do still make the odd mistakes at times which really beggars belief what the programmers where thinking off or not!
Their arrogance means their brilliant tablet, and other mobile devices, whose significant if not primary function is web browsing, can't access a large percentage of web material unless jaikbroken, which undermines the proprietary systems protection and complicates os upgrades.
Occasionally they have software unique to their platform, like garage band, which is so good it makes a case for apple against all tge negatives.
Again I disagree strongly, web based material is moving to HTML the issue of no flash support from a few years back is diminishing. Managed services applications work well on the IOS platform and also Android and of course Windows....anything that doesn't these days is either junk and not worth it or has been engineered to do so as I mentioned above.
Werner Berghofer
23-10-2013, 07:48
Paul,
[…] use excellent design principles allowing them to be easy on the eye.
I have a sneaking suspicion that during the last 12 to 18 months Apple itself has been violating their formerly excellent design principles more than anybody else. I also feel that the level of quality control has been constantly declining during this time frame. A few examples? Since ages on any dialog box asking for confirmation the “OK”, “Go!”, “Do!” or active button has been placed on the right side, while the “Cancel” button always is located on the left side. Starting with iOS 7, Apple users see an inconsistent mix of this principle throughout various applications.
Another example: one of the main or core uses of Apple products is audio playback. But even after the last upgrade to iOS 7.03 the “Remote” application for iPhones and iPads has lost its ability to automatically adjust to landscape or portrait mode; it just remains stuck in portrait mode, no matter how the iDevice is being held. (The “Remote” app is used to remotely control iTunes playback on a Mac within the same WiFi LAN.) And with each new firmware version for the various Airport Express models more serious drop-outs and playback errors are introduced when wirelessly streaming audio.
I have been loving and happily using Apple products since day one (February 1984), both in professional production environments and home applications, but I notice a certain loss of quality awareness which in this form is quite new for a long-time Apple user like me. Most of the time Apple products always have been nearly perfect, excellent and reliable, but recently they started to become just good. I fear that might not be enough.
Werner.
Oldpinkman
23-10-2013, 07:57
However, I disagree with the Business generic software point, yes on occasions there can be some compatibility issues when a bespoke application is written for a set platform only and we do have some of these at work but that is just poor / lazy programming. With the move to managed services (cloud) any service that is not cross platform compatible is useless junk unless its done on purpose to lock your user base down to a single platform.
All our general business applications we use in our company are compatible across platforms and I can access them all perfectly OK from my Mac, although we do still make the odd mistakes at times which really beggars belief what the programmers where thinking off or not!
Thank you. Digita integrated accounts software, Iris v10, Quickbooks and Sage are essential tools for my business. Telling the programmers they are poor or lazy is not going to get any work done for me. I could migrate to the cloud, but the local pikeys steal all the copper cable from our village about every 9 months, and for a week we are without internet (and landline phones). Mobile coverage is a joke. I end up filing HMRC online from the cafe of my gym. Your comments will assist me greatly
As for flash, thank you for repeating Steve Jobs. I broke down in France and needed to access the sole French distributor for a caravan accessory whose web homepage was flash. Again, whilst appreciating SJ's design purism, it didn't help me get a part. Faced with the choice of telling vast swathes of the web that they were not designing their sites properly or having access to them, i swapped the apple for an android.
Mercifully we have choices :)
Gordon Steadman
23-10-2013, 08:22
I am in the fortunate position of not having to pay for my Macs. If I had to pay, it would still be Mac for me. I have used both MacOs and Windoze on a regular basis and have always thought that Windoze was ill thought out and clunky. I am well aware that those who have only used the PC will support it and that the business community will prefer the Sierra over the Ferrari for obvious reasons, although the gap is shrinking clearly.
The market seems to be converging however and it is inevitable, sadly, that, as the Mac becomes more popular, then the bean counters will take over and the 'spark' that used to make the Mac stand out will be lost to a degree, especially with Jobs gone. However, I still find the OS much more logical and intuitive to use.
As ever, each to their own but I can never understand the bile. How can anyone be so stupid as to use a Bosch dishwasher when you can have a Candy or a BMW when you can have a Vauxhall????? What a waste of money for something that does the same job!!
I thought I'd do hi-fi thang here........ Mac Pro Quad Core, Mac G5 Twin processor, Mac G5 single processor, Intel Mini x 2, MacBook, iBook, Original iMac x 2. They are all in good working condition and were second hand from working in a publishing environment before I got them. Totally reliable.
I was obviously a late comer to the Mac, I got my first one (the only one I ever paid for - it lasted me ten years) in 1985.
Werner Berghofer
23-10-2013, 08:44
Gordon,
I was obviously a late comer to the Mac, I got my first one […] in 1985.
considering that the first Macintosh was released in January 1984, I wouldn’t call you exactly a “late comer”. Apple has been producing computers since 1976, but the Macintosh came to life eight years later.
Werner.
jollyfix
23-10-2013, 09:03
I have only got into computers the last few years ( i still don't have a clue). My mrs is very clued in, she has been a Mac user for years, so my introduction was with a Mac ( G5,and Mac book pro), never used a PC, so i couldn't compare. Two years ago i bought a cheppo Dell laptop, just for me to browse the net, and sent e-mails ( i wouldnt have to keep borrowing hers all the time). I didn't like it, but that was just me being more use to the Mac, i am fine with it now, but i still use safari on the Dell.
The biggest thing i have noticed ,is that computers whether Mac or PC, are not perfect. My own stupidness thinking that they are perfect, kind of like CDs when first out, cant be scratched, unbreakable etc. The Mac's needed new soft ware, a new battery for laptop ( not cheap), the anti virus stuff for my laptop etc. This is why i have never gone down the computer audio route, i have had more problems with computers than HIFI. I am sure some of it is my lack of knowledge, but all the money you have to keep spending, i am a buy a HIFI amp job done. i dont expect to keep spending money on it to keep it working every other year.
bit of a rant i know, think i should have just posted.... Mac for me...
In the computing world, "compatability" is a four letter word :rolleyes:
I bought an iPhone last year and nothing frustrated me more than being constantly told that my IOS won't accept whatever app I was trying to download :steam: Being tied to the apple store didn't altogether fit well with me either.
Oldpinkman
23-10-2013, 09:23
In the computing world, "compatability" is a four letter word :rolleyes:
I bought an iPhone last year and nothing frustrated me more than being constantly told that my IOS won't accept whatever app I was trying to download :steam: Being tied to the apple store didn't altogether fit well with me either.
And (decreasingly) any number of hotels, campsites and cafe's where after spending 20 minutes failing to connect, you ask for assistance and they say "oh - are you using an apple device. We often seem to have problems with them"
Doubtless that is the fault of the establishment, who if they knew what they were doing could implement quality wifi with no apple-phobia as countless others do, but when you are miles from home and want to connect, such purism is of little help.
I like Apple's and have used them for music and dtp (Arthur is an Applie if he is about to bob up again), but recognise the need for diversity, and their limitations, and the defensive elitism of so many of their users. Increasingly PC's are catching them, and at signficantly lower cost. Windows 7 was perhaps the first adequately robust and reliable operating system for pc's, but it is here now and on my 3 PC's has been as bomb-proof as any apple OS I have used. And the music and DTP software now have PC versions indistinguishable from their Apple variants. And it runs Digita, Sage P11D software .. . And my laptop was under £300.
Gordon Steadman
23-10-2013, 09:34
Gordon,
considering that the first Macintosh was released in January 1984, I wouldn’t call you exactly a “late comer”. Apple has been producing computers since 1976, but the Macintosh came to life eight years later.
Werner.
Hi Werner,
Just English humour!! I got one of the first 1 Mb MacPlus's in the UK. Managed to avoid the 128K version that came out in 1984:). I had to get a bank loan though. Back then the Mac was £2500 plus another £2500 for the Laserprinter. Macs seem pretty cheap now!!!
I was comparing it with a PC with DOS at the time and it took a few years for the PC to almost catch up.:ner: (to those that think its important)
Gordon Steadman
23-10-2013, 09:39
And (decreasingly) any number of hotels, campsites and cafe's where after spending 20 minutes failing to connect, you ask for assistance and they say "oh - are you using an apple device. We often seem to have problems with them"
Doubtless that is the fault of the establishment, who if they knew what they were doing could implement quality wifi with no apple-phobia as countless others do, but when you are miles from home and want to connect, such purism is of little help.
Most of the world have always been sheep:sofa:
Some of us prefer our own furrow:)
It is the attitude of the company as a whole which really turns me off, they have turned into the Microsoft of old, and then some. In light of this the company's early '1984: Big Brother' ad campaign now seems somewhat hypocritical.
Gordon Steadman
23-10-2013, 10:34
It is the attitude of the company as a whole which really turns me off, they have turned into the Microsoft of old, and then some. In light of this the company's early '1984: Big Brother' ad campaign now seems somewhat hypocritical.
Now the same as just about any other big company then. Its unavoidable it seems.
I've read many alleged things that the evil Apple empire is responsible for although ones choice to live in a high crime area is a new one on me. :D I think we should also blame the OS vendor because the application developers wont port onto another platform, still theres SAGE CRM....oh, yes I forgot....
Trumpton_Rioter
23-10-2013, 11:07
So the lady rioter wants an iPad for Christmas (she as an iPhone) so do any of the users here have any suggestions about the best place to buy one and is teh latest version worth getting?
The cutting edge of computer audio is presently MQn: see https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B3vvH5WBfg8PR0lHZzR6d012OXM&usp=sharing&tid=0B3vvH5WBfg8PdlZmeDhNZ1Utbm8#list for the current version 2.68. I have been following this closely and for CD quality files it is even ahead of things like Fidelizer. I think the author is reducing the code to assembly language - the executable is a mere 88kb. PC only I'm afraid.
I managed to get MQn working under Windows8 64bit in a Virtual Machine running on OSX 10.8.x :D In the comparison I made with the native Windows Player it sounded clearer in the highs and midrange! So its worthy of further investigation IMHO...
Yeh, a bit like that OS that they gave away free today...
:rfl:
losenotaminute
23-10-2013, 19:29
Never used any of their hardware so can't really comment other than to say it all seems a bit overpriced :scratch:
+1
+1
Overpriced compared to what? I've a Mac Pro (a really early one) that's been the core of my edit suite now for nigh on 6 years. It still works, and hasn't lost me a day of productive time during that period - and it's been worked hard. The two 23" monitors are still fine too. My home pc (barely used now) is like triggers broom, even though not that old - I've replaced just about every part of that save for the case.
So I guess it boils down to what you want in a machine. I like technology that disappears, and for me Apple hardware does just that. I'm happy to tinker if I must (I'm no Technical numpty) but I much prefer stuff that just works, preferring to spend my time creating or using in whatever way suits rather than fixing or tweaking.
I'll be replacing the Mac Pro soon - probably with a tricked out iMac. People say they're expensive (as they do about the new Mac Pro) but if you actually compare like with like then the differential soon diminishes. And the resale value is high too - I'd still get maybe £500 for my old machine, but I can't give my PC away.
At the end of the day they're tools, and you choose the right one for the job. I don't care if someone used a mac, a pc or a pen and paper as long as it suits them. Vive la difference and all that.
losenotaminute
23-10-2013, 21:19
Overpriced compared to the alternatives, but I guess that is obvious?
Their phones are expensive compared to almost all other phones. And their iTunes software wants to take over your whole system - it lasted a few days on my system before I got fed up with the bloatware creep. And compatability with previous versions is poor according to people who tell me that you need to upgrade OS fairly regularly to keep everything working. I'm happy that you are happy with Apple, but I don't like it, and am very happy with the relative freedom that being a non-Apple owner allows. As you say, each to their own, I'm not having a go at Apple, it's just not for me.
Lawrence
I'm happy that you are happy with Apple, but I don't like it, and am very happy with the relative freedom that being a non-Apple owner allows. As you say, each to their own, I'm not having a go at Apple, it's just not for me.
Can't have said fairer than that Lawrence... we can't account for your bad taste ;) :lol:
losenotaminute
25-10-2013, 12:12
Can't have said fairer than that Lawrence... we can't account for your bad taste ;) :lol:
Is your Apple pc absolutely silent? My non-Apple pc is....
;)
Lawrence
Is your Apple pc absolutely silent? My non-Apple pc is....
;)
Lawrence
Actually I think my Apple machine is in-fact silent :)
Beobloke
25-10-2013, 14:00
Personally, I treat Apple as a maker of nice toys - I like my iPhone and my iPad because I don't take them too seriously, nor must I absolutely have the latest upgrade or new version the second it comes out. However, I absolutely detest their computers - I used a Mac for two years when i was full-time at Hi-Fi World and hated every second of it.
If I may quote the words of a very wise chap on another forum, this sums them up for me:
The MAC OS is designed for simple people and advertising executives who work in trendy offices in London (and who are all technophobic imbeciles IME). People who wear their jeans around their arses, own pairs of Rayban Wayfarers in bright colours and have an extensive collection of stupid hats.
Some of us use our computers for work, and therefore need control of their machine. I know, I know it's all nasty and complicated and you actually have to learn to do some things yourself, but some of us aren't afraid of that.
Again, it's horses for courses - if you need flexibility, an affordable upgrade path, the ability to fix the machine yourself, control over the hardware and an OS that has lots of software available for it from a competitive multi-vendor marketplace (much of it free) and you have a real job like an engineer then you need a computer. A real one. A PC.
If you do colouring-in for a living, want to pay over the odds for software, not be able to upgrade your machine and not be able to configure the hardware and software to suit your needs, but you need it all to be very easy and pretty, plus housed in a lovely stylish case that costs a fortune, then you need a Mac.
;)
The MAC OS is designed for simple people and advertising executives who work in trendy offices in London (and who are all technophobic imbeciles IME). People who wear their jeans around their arses, own pairs of Rayban Wayfarers in bright colours and have an extensive collection of stupid hats.
Some of us use our computers for work, and therefore need control of their machine. I know, I know it's all nasty and complicated and you actually have to learn to do some things yourself, but some of us aren't afraid of that.
Again, it's horses for courses - if you need flexibility, an affordable upgrade path, the ability to fix the machine yourself, control over the hardware and an OS that has lots of software available for it from a competitive multi-vendor marketplace (much of it free) and you have a real job like an engineer then you need a computer. A real one. A PC.
If you do colouring-in for a living, want to pay over the odds for software, not be able to upgrade your machine and not be able to configure the hardware and software to suit your needs, but you need it all to be very easy and pretty, plus housed in a lovely stylish case that costs a fortune, then you need a Mac.
;)
:rfl:
:sofa:
Gordon Steadman
25-10-2013, 15:17
The MAC OS is designed for simple people and advertising executives who work in trendy offices in London (and who are all technophobic imbeciles IME). People who wear their jeans around their arses, own pairs of Rayban Wayfarers in bright colours and have an extensive collection of stupid hats.
Some of us use our computers for work, and therefore need control of their machine. I know, I know it's all nasty and complicated and you actually have to learn to do some things yourself, but some of us aren't afraid of that.
Again, it's horses for courses - if you need flexibility, an affordable upgrade path, the ability to fix the machine yourself, control over the hardware and an OS that has lots of software available for it from a competitive multi-vendor marketplace (much of it free) and you have a real job like an engineer then you need a computer. A real one. A PC.
If you do colouring-in for a living, want to pay over the odds for software, not be able to upgrade your machine and not be able to configure the hardware and software to suit your needs, but you need it all to be very easy and pretty, plus housed in a lovely stylish case that costs a fortune, then you need a Mac.
;)
Yeah, well there are prats who know nothing about working with Macs everywhere:eyebrows:
Gordon Steadman
25-10-2013, 15:19
:rfl:
:sofa:
Love the GT6!! I had one before I got into Alfas. Waving the front wheels in the air was terrific fun. Great engine though.
Werner Berghofer
25-10-2013, 17:09
Gordon,
Yeah, well there are prats who know nothing about working with Macs everywhere
this is very, very true.
Werner.
losenotaminute
25-10-2013, 17:14
Actually I think my Apple machine is in-fact silent :)
I didn't realise you could get fanless computers from Apple, do you have a link to where they can be purchased?
Lawrence
Gordon Steadman
25-10-2013, 17:28
I didn't realise you could get fanless computers from Apple, do you have a link to where they can be purchased?
Lawrence
Any Mac Mini is fanless I believe and I assume all the laptops are.
Look at the spec of a mac, factor in their leading display quality, and they are not far off a PC in price...
losenotaminute
25-10-2013, 17:40
Any Mac Mini is fanless I believe and I assume all the laptops are.
The 2011 and 2012 models have fans, so I assume the latest do as well. Most laptops also have fans, so I suspect this is not correct, although I'm happy to be put right. The Apple website is uninformative...
https://discussions.apple.com/message/20378329#20378329
Lawrence
Gordon Steadman
25-10-2013, 17:51
The 2011 and 2012 models have fans, so I assume the latest do as well. Most laptops also have fans, so I suspect this is not correct, although I'm happy to be put right. The Apple website is uninformative...
https://discussions.apple.com/message/20378329#20378329
Lawrence
No idea about in general but my Mini certainly has no fan - and is totally silent.
losenotaminute
25-10-2013, 17:54
No idea about in general but my Mini certainly has no fan - and is totally silent.
Does it have a solid state disk?
Gordon Steadman
25-10-2013, 17:59
Does it have a solid state disk?
Nope, it just seems I was wrong:(. It is so quiet that I assumed it was like the Cube and worked by convection. I certainly didn't see a fan when I took mine apart. There you go. Three mistakes now in twenty years. I'm not sure I can live with myself.
losenotaminute
25-10-2013, 18:04
Nope, it just seems I was wrong:(. It is so quiet that I assumed it was like the Cube and worked by convection. I certainly didn't see a fan when I took mine apart. There you go. Three mistakes now in twenty years. I'm not sure I can live with myself.
Gordon, no need to fall on your sword. It's obviously very quiet :)
Lawrence
Yeah, well there are prats who know nothing about working with Macs everywhere:eyebrows:
Yep anyone but we can't account for their stupidity, Gordon :)
Gordon Steadman
27-10-2013, 06:06
Yep anyone but we can't account for their stupidity, Gordon :)
Hi Paul,
I hope you mean stupidity in their continued mocking of Apple users rather than being PC users!! I've used both for years and the Mac suits the way my mind works (and yes PC users, I do take mine apart and they are expandable) These days, in spite of not working in a way that I find logical, PCs work OK.
So, I reckon its about time people stopped knocking other's choices. People who still use the expression 'fanboy' like one of our moderators and, with respect, people who have signatures like yours, do none of us any favours. I do wish you would change it, it just encourages a tit for tat response.
I now have eight Macs and could be considered an enthusiast I guess but I still respect the fact that most of my friends use PCs. I'm still prepared to be friends in fact:eyebrows:
Frankyc2003
27-10-2013, 07:01
Rolling Stones or Beatles
Blur or Oasis
Rihanna or Beyonce
...
Gordon Steadman
27-10-2013, 07:09
Rolling Stones or Beatles
Blur or Oasis
Rihanna or Beyonce
...
Point taken.... I guess I've never been a team player!!
I still don't think we should encourage the aggression between 'opposing armies'.
Frankyc2003
27-10-2013, 07:13
agreed, it is pointless...
The 2 things get the same bloody work done...
I hope you mean stupidity in their continued mocking of Apple users rather than being PC users!!
Yep that was my point Gordon :)
Jeff Nikon
24-12-2013, 04:28
I spent many years fixing a mates PC, he was always calling me about something. Lost pictures, viruses, daughter lost her homework etc etc it seemed like I was there every fortnight. One day he took my advice and decided to buy a Mac. We met in the store, he bought a 24 inch iMac and I agreed to set it up for him. I followed him home but got stuck in traffic and arrived 30 minutes after he did. I walked in and he was showing his wife prints from a printer we gave up on the year before. I asked him how he got it to work and he told me he just plugged it into the iMac opened a picture and pressed print. I was shocked he'd even got the iMac out of its box. That was 7 years ago and he hasn't asked for any help from me since that day. Apple products work, no drama, no headaches. Yes it is what they call a walled garden but thats more than enough for most people. Personally I can't believe Microsoft is still in business. Merry Xmas!
..... Apple products work, no drama, no headaches. Yes it is what they call a walled garden but thats more than enough for most people. Personally I can't believe Microsoft is still in business. Merry Xmas!
Im an Apple convert but a realist.....Apple s/w and hardware doesn't always work! ;) Apple can screw up just as well as anybody else!
Im an Apple convert but a realist.....Apple s/w and hardware doesn't always work! ;) Apple can screw up just as well as anybody else!
+1. I love Apple and have emptied my wallet for their kit repeatedly. I am a 95% fan, however. I curse the day I bought the Time Capsule and still haven't got it working the way it should. Not all their products are as well conceived as their best. And don't get me started on iTunes!
Peter
Gordon Steadman
24-12-2013, 10:23
I am suddenly up to 12 Macs!!! (I should point out that I get mine free!! Big publishing companies still feel the need to upgrade on an annual basis it seems and something has to happen to all those poor tired one year old machines!! I'm about third on the list of hand-me-downs)
As the best one is a rather later model that I have had before, I updated most of the usual stuff and for the first time wish I hadn't. I still use iTunes but hate the way the latest version arranges my files. I have had to rename everything. Maybe a newer generation of programmers thinks in an even different way. Very annoying but not enough to make me want to use a PC.
I like and agree with Jeff's post. Apple haven't always got it right, who has, certainly not Microsoft, but what they do provide is intuitive and customer friendly equipment which was always Steve Jobs philosophy.
Jeff Nikon
28-12-2013, 05:57
I used to spend so many late nights trying to get a PC running right. Always thought it must be my fault, I must be doing something wrong. Then I heard someone say the genius of Bill Gates is when his product goes wrong the user blames himself.
the genius of Bill Gates is when his product goes wrong the user blames himself.
:rfl: :rfl:
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