Help!!!!! - please gimme some advice about valves!

[Wakefield Turntables]

Guys,

I'm in the process of selecting some new valves for my Radford kit. The Mullard valves that I have are beginning to go, I will eventually replace these but I would like some advice. Can you all please suggest a decent replacement for the M8137/12AX7 valves that my preamp needs. I would also like some suggestions for replacements for EL34's (I need 4), currently running Electroharmoix as a stop gap, any suggestions for something better would be most welcome. I've spoken to Radford and they recommend the JJ brand.

Thanks

Andy

[Marco]

Hi Andy,

As far as 12AX7s are concerned, these M8214s (which I use in the Croft) are, head and shoulders the best 12AX7/ECC83 types I've ever heard (and, I've rolled LOADS of those babies) - simply breathtaking sound in all areas, with no downsides I can detect. However, they take ages to burn-in, but once done, prepare for BIG grins!!

http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV4035_NOS_NIB_1961_Prem_CV4004_Whyteleafe _p/2050m.htm

Tubemonger are also a fab company to deal with - very quick and efficient service :)

I don't use EL34s, so can't comment there.

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi, I see that the humble 12AX7 has yet another name in the form of M8214, I've never heard of this one before, what's the difference. So, your rolling Mullard in your Croft? Thanks for the link, $160 a tube is expensive but at least I see they exist. :)

[Marco]

Yup. CV4035/M8214s are just high-quality military spec versions of 12AX7/ECC83s, and so have identical parameters. Expensive yes, but, IMO, having tried most other varieties, unquestionably the best :)

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Look like I'll be whoring myself out around West Yorkshire then!

[Marco]

Nothing new there, then! :lol:

Marco.

[Rare Bird]

Would a 'KT77' not be a good 'EL34' Substitute in the Rad?

[User211]

Tesla ECC803S (not JJ Tesla) is good. I had some Telefunken ECC803S about 10 years ago the Teslas at the same time and they were bloody close in an Air Tight ATM2. I sold the Teles for £475 quid - they go for more than that now. The Teslas at the time were way cheaper - but getting expensive now: Teslas on ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ECC803S-ECC83-12AX7-Pair-TESLA-Gold-Pins-Tubes-Original-Boxes-Very-Strong-/350868903387?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item51b16a95db). The Tesla were made with the same tooling equipment as the Teles, allegedly. But they don't look the same internally.

Good page for alternatives (http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm)

Did loads of others in the Air Tight but the Teslas did it for me.

[The Black Adder]

Give CVC a call. That's where I got the original ones from for that amp/pre.

Alternatives for the ECC83's would be Amperex, RCA etc I suppose. Mullard would be best but a bit minty these days.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Joe,

Already did, I can get NOS valves about 35% cheaper than the prices they charge. VAT is a killer for companies like this. I already have a few lined up: just biding my time for the right price to come around.

Andy

[Marco]

Do remember, guys, that the best NOS valves are all from pre-1970. For example, try comparing a Mullard ECC83 from, say, 1958, and one from 1978. Sonically, there is no comparison.

The NOS valves that CVC sell, as far as I'm aware, are from the 1970s....

Marco.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Im afraid I would have to trust in what you say. Sadly I'm no expert. The new valves in the Radford are all part of a much bigger project for my valve system. I intend to get a seriously good valve phonostage after the new year and then get those bloody Tannoy's fettled. :eyebrows:

[Marco]

No worries, Andrew. I've probably experimented more with ECC83/12AX7 tubes than any other ones, so I've 'been there and done that', as it were, and there's no doubt that the 1950/early 1960s versions (especially from Mullard), nine times out of ten, are the best sounding ones :)

Marco.

[hal55]

If you are prepared to go modern I can well recommend the Mullard Reissues and Sovtek 12AX7 LPS. Very nice both of them and cheap (but not nasty).

Hal55

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hal,

Thanks for your suggestion I have heard of the new mullard reissues and also sovtek but I've been warned off them from various people, that's not to say they arn't any good but I have got used to the mullard sound and it's one that I like. I'm slowly but surely stock piling some old mullard valves when I get them at a price I'm prepared to pay.

Andy

[hal55]

I've used both in my phono preamp and liked them a lot. Both were better than the standard Shuguangs (which themselves weren't a bad tube when fully run in) and surprisingly were way better than Tungsol reissues, which were so bad on piano I don't think the tubes designers ever heard the instrument.
Good luck and I hope you can get your originals reasonably quickly,

Hal55

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've used both in my phono preamp and liked them a lot. Both were better than the standard Shuguangs (which themselves weren't a bad tube when fully run in) and surprisingly were way better than Tungsol reissues, which were so bad on piano I don't think the tubes designers ever heard the instrument.
Good luck and I hope you can get your originals reasonably quickly,

Hal55

Hal,

Thanks for the additional info regarding some of the Asian brands, I shall keep that in mind.

[da2222]

It should be remembered that valves are VERY system dependent...M8214s in my 845 amp would be one of my very last choices of 12AX7 types. There are not absolutes with valves when there are so many variables to consider between different applications. I would however avoid new issue signal valves, none of the various brands have yet to impress me at all. NOS '50s and '60s tend to float my boat...


Hi Andy,

As far as 12AX7s are concerned, these M8214s (which I use in the Croft) are, head and shoulders the best 12AX7/ECC83 types I've ever heard (and, I've rolled LOADS of those babies) - simply breathtaking sound in all areas, with no downsides I can detect. However, they take ages to burn-in, but once done, prepare for BIG grins!!

http://www.tubemonger.com/Mullard_CV4035_NOS_NIB_1961_Prem_CV4004_Whyteleafe _p/2050m.htm

Tubemonger are also a fab company to deal with - very quick and efficient service :)

I don't use EL34s, so can't comment there.

Marco.

[Marco]

Absolutely, Drew - and of course, within the same type, tubes can also vary from one to another! Any recommendations I give are most certainly purely in the context of my own system. I totally agree with you, though, about 50s and 60s vintage ones generally being the best :)

Marco.

[esperowl]

Hi, IME its not just the vintage that should be considered (totally agree that most 50's tubes I've tried better most 70's tubes I've tried).
The internal construction can also make an appreciable difference. As a VERY general observation, I've found that welded plates better stapled plates and prefer long plates to short, black plates to grey.

In my set up, my favourite 12AX7 is the welded long plate Amperex (pre Bugle boy), the 'best' being made in 1953 to mid 1954. Philips changed the manufacturing process after this date. I've tried stapled plate Amperex from late 1954 up to their Bugle Boy era and they do not give the same benefits in my phono (still good tubes though).
By 'best' I mean that these welded tubes are deadly quiet (critical as I use 3 of these tubes in my phono stage) and deliver a deep, tonally rich bass. The overall sound is more organic and earthy (compared to the airy / sparkly Telefunken and Siemens tubes I've tried) without becoming overly rich sounding (GE, RCA).

In my power amp I'm less fussy and use 1950's Westinghouse black plate 12AX7. Compared to the RCA's I was using, these Westinghouses have more air and clarity, delicate highs, a pleasing midrange and great authority in the bass (funnily enough though the RCA's sounded better in my nephew's guitar amp).

[PaulStewart]

Hi Andy,

As far as EL34s go I just started using the Harma EL 34 Retros from Watford Valves got a matched quad for under 100 squids and I think they are the best I've heard apart from NOS Mullards, Teslas (not JJ) or Telefunkens. Sublime mid, tight bass and detailed treble. I like them so much I've ordered two matched pairs of the 12AX7/ECC83s. Well worth a listen.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Paul,

Thanks for the suggestion and what you suggest could make for an interesting second pair! My preamp has a lovely set of NOS Mullard ECC83's ao I'm slowly sourcing the power amp valves. I realise the NOS Mullards will eventually run out so I guess its now a case of getting a set of the next best thing!

[The Black Adder]

What happened to the ECC83's I put in the pre, Andrew? They were all NOS Mullard CV4004's I think... Should last for bonkers years.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Nothings happened to them, I've stock piled them!

[Arkless Electronics]

What happened to the ECC83's I put in the pre, Andrew? They were all NOS Mullard CV4004's I think... Should last for bonkers years.

Should sound great and as you say last for many years. The ultimate... unless you prefer Telefunken...

[Wakefield Turntables]

Sounds like I got the right brand at least, ok vintage could be a different thing, now it's just a case of getting mullard stuff for the power amp.

[The Grand Wazoo]

Andrew, it's good to have some spares in stock but once you've found what you like, you shouldn't need stacks of them, you know. Especially the small signal valves - they really do last a very long time. One spare set should see you right for the remainder of your life.

You're not going to be like the man who carried his shoes because he didn't want to wear them out are you?!

[Wakefield Turntables]

No! Is the answer to your question :) i only try to spend money where it's needed but what happens if I suddenly develop an urge to collect valve amps, I'd probably need quite a few spares. ;)