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Spectral Morn
19-05-2009, 21:21
The Leak Trough-Line Tuner....a milestone in tuner design.




Its hard to imagine a time when both FM broadcasting and Stereo radio did not exist, but back in the 1950's that was the case. Many audio and radio enthusiasts waited for the first FM radio broadcasts, which promised better sound quality and greatly reduced background noise over MW/LW and SW radio broadcasts, with great anticipation.

The BBC were developing this technology with help from units supplied by a company called STC. STC had supplied a number of FM tuners to the BBC so that they could run research on reception conditions as part of ongoing FM trials. A British company called Leak were among/if not the first commercial audio company to get their hands on an STC unit, which allowed Leak to demonstrate FM with its products at shows. However not being satisfied with this Leak decided to develop their own FM tuner.

1954 was the year that Leak embarked upon this period of FM tuner development. Ted Ashley, Stan Amos, G C Johnson ( Amos and Johnson were BBC engineers who worked for Leak )and Leaks owner Harold Leak oversaw the project. After a year of work the fist FM tuner was launched onto the UK market...it was called the Trough-Line. The name was derived from an aspect of the design, namely the tunning element.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/41_TestTuners_ts.jpg

The biggest difficulty the Leak design tean encountered was providing a design which did not drift of station due to changing temperature within the FM circuit. This part of FM tuners is known as an oscillator and the high temperatures found in valve designs would change the shape of the oscillator slightly and thus it would loose stability, resulting in drift. Many FM designers used AFC (Automatic Frequency Control) to compensate but large quantities had to be used and this led to poor tuning functionality. Excessive AFC meant you just did not really know what frequency the tuner was set to. This was unacceptable to the Leak design team so they set about dealing with these major issues. The solution was pure genius “ a shortened quarter wavelength transmission line could act in place of a conventional coil inductance used in ordinary radio oscillators. This quarter wavelength transmission line was made in the form of an open trough, square in section, with the side facing downwards. In the centre of the trough, a conductor ran along the length, with various taps that connected into the circuit of the oscillator valve and tuning capacitor. This transmission line is almost impervious to the effects of heat and so the oscillator frequency remains inherently stable”(1). It was this design solution that gave the Leak tuner its distinctive name, the Trough-Line.

In the early days of FM the frequency range you could tune to was very limited starting at 88 MHz and ending at 100 MHz (totally useless today as modern FM stretches to 108) however in its day the first Leak Trough-Line was a breakthrough, and had all the tuning range that was required. This gave Leak a FM tuner (The VS was an AM Leak tuner already available) for its audio range in 1955. The unit was stylish but very bulky and heavy,this was due to the use of copper in the trough. The massive amount of copper used also made the mk1 tuner very expensive to make. One change in the design which was added in order to meet very stringent specifications and was discovered during quality control tests was that a little AFC was required. With this addition the Leak tuner had the most stable tuning characteristic of any FM design at the time.

One other addition to the design which was unique among its contemporary tuners (and worth noting if you plan to buy vintage FM/AM tuners from this time period), the Trough-Lines were self powered. Every other design on the 1950's market had to be powered via a power outlet on a pre-amplifier or power amplifier. In its day this was a radical design choice as it allowed Leak tuners to be used anywhere and with other product ranges as well. Being self powered also makes the Trough-Line ideal for purchase today.

The first tuner has a volume control on the left side of the fascia and a tune dial on the right, the AFC switch is on the rear of the unit, later tuners had this on the front. This model was available from 1955 to 1959.


Front view of the first Leak Trough-Line FM Tuner
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTmk1.jpg
Rear view of above
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/yos14.jpg


With the change in fascia design from gold enameled steel to the later diakon plastic and a more art deco look to match new products in the Leak range the opportunity was taken to improve the design both visually, functionally and in overall design terms. The Trough-Line 2 was put into production in 1960. This new tuner was different in a number of ways to the preceding model, it had the AFC control on the front panel (which could be defeated), a local and distant selector for sensitivity, increased tuning range from 88Mhz to 108Mhz, and on the back panel a FM Multiplex output.There were changes to the internal layout and design as well. The solid copper oscillator tube was replaced with a copper plated (possible because of skin effect conductivity is mostly on the outer surface) mild steel tube, this reduced weight and costs. However this change introduced a problem at the calibration stage. Each unit had to be measured to insure that the oscillator voltage was correct and only then could alignment happen. If the plating or solder was off then the Q of the oscillator trough would be off and influence the performance for the worse...the change in materials used to produce the trough between the mk1 and mk2 complicated set up slightly.


The Art Deco styled Trough-Line 2 FM Tuner using diakon plastic for the fascia
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners021.jpg
Internal view
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners022.jpg


Ted Ashley with Amos and Johnson acting only in an advisory role were responsible for the changes between the mk1 and mk2. Valve complement changed slightly with the above mention functional changes also adding greatly to the usability of the tuner. These changes are important as they make the Trough-Line into a tuner that can be and is well suited to modern use....Leak were a head of their time.

At the time of the Trough-Line mk2 a decision had not nationally been made about the standard for FM stereo decoding so the output on the back panel would allow the unit to be upgraded when suitable models were available, from Leak or other manufacturers. This feature allows the contemporary user/collector to upgrade a mono tuner to stereo one using either a solid state device or a valve one such as the decoder from EAR. The Trough-Line sounds excellent in my opinion in mono as well.


Rear of the Trough-Line 2. Note the Multiplex output socket on the right. This was for the hook up of an external stereo decoder. Audio out was via a single fixed cable terminated with a phono plug and aerial connection was via screws
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners024.jpg


In 1964 the Trough-Line 2 was phased out for the Trough-Line 3 which adopted a new visual style. Silver and black was now the order of the day with the passing of the Art Deco style of earlier models I feel something was lost, at least from a visual stand point. Performance on the other hand improved especially in regard to sensitivity. The earlier Trough-Line tuners are not particularly sensitive in comparison to new tuners, so excellent aerials are needed to provide enough signal to achieve full quieting. This can also be achieved with a good RF amplifier and an aerial of slightly lesser quality. This is the sort of set up that I use with my Trough-Line tuners...living in line of sight of the main FM transmitter also helps. However gain levels must be carefully judged to avoid overloading the tuner.


The Trough-Line 3. Featuring the new black and silver fascia. This unit has a non Leak supplied custom made oak wood sleeve.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners030.jpg


The Trough-Line 3 was identical in valve complement to the 2, so in the main the changes were visual only. The 3 continued to offer a multiplex output for hooking up to a stereo decoder, however this was about to change with the introduction of the Trough-Line Stereo in 1966. This introduction came about because of the BBC use of a standard finally which was the same as in America, the GE-Zenith system.


Rear view of the Trough-Line 3. The rear of this unit has been owner modified. An IEC socket has been added, the audio output cable removed and the Multiplex socket upgraded, and the aerial connection has been rather crudely changed to a 75ohm socket
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners031.jpg


For a number of years Leak had been working on a stereo decoder for the Trough-Line range a Mullard design was tried but didn't work properly so experiments to increase the bandwidth took place. Leak did not want to change the Foster-Seeley discriminator and it was this that limited bandwidth. Eventually a compromise was found, bandwidth was increased but at a loss of sensitivity;not ideal. Ray Whitcombe one of the team working on this problem discovered that substituting the Ecc84 valve for an Ecc88(new at the time) was the solution to the problem. The Ecc88 (a high gain valve designed for use in TV's) allowed the sensitivity to be brought back up.The new decoder (sourced from Phillips, via Mullard) was built into the new tuner and was also offered to older customers as an internal upgrade for older Trough-Line 2/3 tuners.


Trough-Line Stereo. This photo shows an original Leak supplied wood sleeve.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners029.jpg
This unit has an inner top and bottom cover in artificial leather (as well as the wood sleeve). I don't know if this was normal or not as this is the first time I have seen this. However the presence of what looks like original screws suggests Leak supplied it this way.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners026.jpg
View of the interior.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners027.jpg
Rear view. The aerial connection is still via screw connectors and having an on board stereo decoder the multiplex output is gone and audio out is via 2 fixed audio leads terminated with phono plugs.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners028.jpg


The Trough-Line 3 and Stereo co-existed with the older design at lower cost (£32) and the newer model as the more high-end model, at higher cost (£47). By 1969 Leak like many companies looked towards the new Solid-State technology and the Trough-Line was phased out in favour of the Stereofetic. This looked similar to the Trough-Line Stereo but had the addition of presets and no valves.I have never heard a Stereofetic, but they are never mentioned (by Radio fans or Audio Magazines) so I must assume (perhaps wrongly) that they are not very good, in comparison to the earlier valve tuners.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/40_MountingRadio_ts.jpg

For many years the Trough-Line tuner range was a half forgotten product of a by-gone age, until audio enthusiasts and some designers began to rediscover them. Magazines such as Hi-Fi World brought the Trough-Line into the modern world (how I heard about it) and claimed it was as good and better than most modern tuners and even a challenge to the classic Day-Sequera designs. Companies such as EAR introduced a valve decoder to be used with the Trough-Line 2 and 3 and a number of others such as Graham Tricker and One Thing also offered upgrades to fully exploit the Leak tuners. This is all a good thing because a lost gem is now back in the spotlight where it belongs...a true classic of British audio design.

In a future article/review for the Strokes of Genius section I will do a comparison with some modern tuners such as the Revox B260, and we will talk about sound quality. Is the Trough-Line as good as has been claimed...we shall see.


Regards D S D L

(1) Quote from Firsts in High Fidelity by Stephen spicer



Additional photos/material of interest..

Harold Leak and Son

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/46_LeakSrJr_ts.jpg

Different finish for the Trough-Line1

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/leaktrough-linefmtuner.jpg

The Rodney Hanna Troughline Stereo.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners006.jpg
Internal view. Large capacitor at rear right had to be replaced. Above that the new rca audio outs
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners001.jpg
B]Internal view looking to the right side. The metal rectangular box mounted on the inner side houses the new Motorolo stereo decoder.[/B]
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners002.jpg
View of bottom of tuner
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners003.jpg
Rear panel with new F connector for aerial connection(original screws connectors still in place). Audio output is now via 2 rca sockets.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners004.jpg

Many Trough-Line tuners were used in cabinets, joint cases with a pre-amplifier as opposed to standalone units. However many were supplied with wood sleeves and later with the Stereo a metal sleeve; this allows the units to be used sitting freely (safely) on a sideboard or on a Hi-Fi rack. A Trough-Line Stereo got recently (from Mike Homar..Thank You) had an original wood sleeve that needed some restoration. You can see in the pictures below how I did this. Black Ash wood stain was used from Cuprinol to bring it back to a nice state of finish. The process took two days as I tried to build the layers up without running. I am fairly happy with it. To create (as new finish) you would have to take wire wool and white spirit to it, possibly even sand paper. I choose to leave the wear and tear visible, and just freshen up the black finish. The addition of 4 rubber feet completed the cosmetic restoration.

Original Leak wood Sleeve for Trough-Line Stereo
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners011.jpg
Restoration of the original Leak sleeve. Black Ash stain was used which matches the original finish
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners010.jpg

Metal tight sleeve. Original to the Trough-Line Stereo that became the Rodney Hanna Trough-Line

Front view of this metal sleeve which fits very tightly over the tuner. It would appear Leak offered 2 sleeve choices, wood and metal.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners017.jpg
Rear view showing metal upright for screwing the tuner inner to the sleeve. This was done via a single long screw
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners018.jpg

Custom made oak wood sleeve made for the Trough-Line 3. Sleeve came with unit at time of purchase and is an original owner addition and not a Leak sleeve...very nice though.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners019.jpg
Rear view
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners020.jpg


Useful Links for additional information

http://44bx.com/leak/1968.html Leak Factory Visit etc.

http://44bx.com/leak/decoder.html Leak Stereo Decoder

http://www.dc-daylight.ltd.uk/Valve-Audio-Interest/LEAK-Stuff/TroughLine-Tuners/LEAK-Troughline.htmlRepairing Leak Tuners

http://www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/featureshtml/timdeparadecoder.html Review of Trough-Line with EAR Stereo Decoder.

http://www.londonsound.org/leakrepairs.htm Repairing Leak products.

http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showthread.php?t=59545 Discussion on upgrades to Leak Trough-Line FM Tuner on PFM

http://www.blackwidowaudio.com/?page_id=11 additional info on Leak Tuners.

Copyright of text and large images 4 to 12 and 16 to 24 belong to NK.

Beechwoods
19-05-2009, 21:47
Neil - another excellent and bloody interesting article. Thank you. It really is fascinating to see how the tuners developed over time, and you are lucky to have a great collection as well. There really is nothing like design in the 60's, both inside and out.

DSJR
19-05-2009, 21:54
The Stereofetic was a more sensitive tuner IIRC and was pretty good. Rose tinting and the rush to buy all the Troughline's around, means that the Stereofetic has been forgotten except to the faithful (it doesn't have valves so can't be any good an it? :rolleyes:).

All of these were overshadowed by the Japanese onslaught in the 1970's and Rank took Leak over and killed it......

The Grand Wazoo
19-05-2009, 23:08
Great stuff Neil!

I LOVE that solid oak sleeve - if I buy the wool will you knit me one?

When I got my first Troughline, it used to drift off tune after about a couple of hours. I did some asking around & learnt that it was probably due to a capacitor reaching a certain temperature, which was causing it to drift off spec. (at the time I knew nothing about electronics - I now know almost nothing).

When I asked how this could be sorted I was told that I should send it to a service engineer who'd sort it for me. So I asked what this guru would do to my pride & joy when he got his mitts on it. I was told that he would spray some very very cold stuff on each cap in turn, until the unit magically got back on tune. This would locate the faulty component, which could be simply changed.

Thinking I could save a little cash by finding the dodgy cap myself, I trundled down to my nearest Maplin & bought myself some of this magic icy-spray, whipped off the lid of the Troughline & started squirting (after a 1/2 day of playing into an ancient worthless amp & speakers).

With the third cap that I sprayed, I hit the jackpot - I'll never forget the moment that the white noise turned into the theme tune from 'The Archers'.....BINGO!! I've found the culprit!! So I put some white insulating tape on the cap so it could be found again easily. Then I braced myself for a bill from 'the guy with the solder sucker'. It never once occurred to me that there might be more than one dodgy component.

Anyway, after two weeks the bloody thing never shifted off-tune once! I never had to get any components changed & it still sings like a bird.

....and I'd like to know why the momentary freezing of a capacitor should make it suddenly not be susceptible to going off spec after doing so when warmed.

Barry
19-05-2009, 23:58
Neil,

What an excellent article ! Really well written and informative - just the sort of thing I like to read about. Seeing all those photos made me miss the Troughline 3 that I once had. :(

Perhaps this could be the start of a series of articles on vintage Hi Fi.

Again well done

Regards
Barry

Spectral Morn
20-05-2009, 08:59
Thank you guys

I have been working on this for just over a week and drew all the elements together yesterday. I am glad you all found it interesting.

Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
20-05-2009, 09:06
The Stereofetic was a more sensitive tuner IIRC and was pretty good. Rose tinting and the rush to buy all the Troughline's around, means that the Stereofetic has been forgotten except to the faithful (it doesn't have valves so can't be any good an it? :rolleyes:).

All of these were overshadowed by the Japanese onslaught in the 1970's and Rank took Leak over and killed it......

In the future when funds allow I will have a look for the Stereofetic tuner however during my research on the Trough-Line range I found an item which indicates that Leaks tuner design team were not as keen on the Stereofetic (they called it the Stereopathetic). Apparently they found it very hard to get the same level of performance technically from it as they did from the valve designs. I suppose its worth remembering that this was the early days of solid state. Leak were very keen that no product ever be weaker than the one that preceded it. In many ways the attitudes seem to be similar to Quad when Peter walker was still alive...excellent customer care and maximum consideration for them as well.


I LOVE that solid oak sleeve - if I buy the wool will you knit me one?

Chris I didn't know that was an oak sleeve....very nice. I didn't make it. The previous owner (I bought it S/H along with an EAR decoder) of the Trough-Line 3 had made it for his/her tuner as well as modifying various aspects of it. No audio out, only multiplex for hooking up to an external decoder, IEC mains input, and a few other odds and ends done inside.



Regards D S D L

John
20-05-2009, 18:00
Thanks for sharing and taking the time to write and post this A very good article with the right balance of info and pics
John

hifi_dave
20-05-2009, 19:02
Back in the 80's we used to sell cartloads of Troughline 2's and 3's. Re-furb'd, rebuilt, stereo, mono or simply working. At one time we had a waiting list of nearly 40 customers as they were so obviously superior to all but the most exotic of American tuners such as McIntosh, Marantz or Fisher. Put one up against the latest all singing, all dancing exotica and the Troughline would win hands down.

At one stage we did try the Stereofetic but it really wasn't the same thing at all being thin, flat and uninvolving. Give me the warm, solid, beefy tube job anytime.:smoking:

DSJR
20-05-2009, 19:32
Remember that back in the seventies we didn't listen to this sort of stuff. if we found a good sounding item it was by chance more than anything else to be honest.

Neil, apopolgies for not adding my thanks for the carefully researched and written article. You should be able to buy a Stereofetic for relative peanuts and I was going to suggest a Stereo 70 amp as well (almost as good was a Nad 3020 when it was "only" ten years old - can't say how good at almost forty!)

Spectral Morn
20-05-2009, 20:07
Remember that back in the seventies we didn't listen to this sort of stuff. if we found a good sounding item it was by chance more than anything else to be honest.

Neil, apopolgies for not adding my thanks for the carefully researched and written article. You should be able to buy a Stereofetic for relative peanuts and I was going to suggest a Stereo 70 amp as well (almost as good was a Nad 3020 when it was "only" ten years old - can't say how good at almost forty!)

No problem Dave...it was a pleasure to do.

Sadly this kind of kit (you mention) does not seem to be peanuts (anymore...all be it I only looked at one source) I have seen a Stereofetic and integrated amplifier from the same period £170 for both.....UMM ! Same source had a Trough-Line 1 for £70 way to much for something of very limited use. I would have looked at it, if it had been, say £30, but even the collector in me won't buy something just to look at....well not often. When I am back in work we'll see.




Regards D S D L

Mike
21-05-2009, 12:26
Hi Neil, nice piece of work there, and a very enjoyable read. :)

How's that Troughline Stereo performing?

Spectral Morn
21-05-2009, 15:40
Hi Neil, nice piece of work there, and a very enjoyable read. :)

How's that Troughline Stereo performing?


Hi Mike....

I have been working on the FM aerial for the house....wiring and distribution and also sorting away I can do a Trough-Line sound based write up for strokes of Genius....easily. Having easy access so I can swap between them is important so I have been preparing for this. I needed to sort out my CD collection and put up a new unit on the wall for them downstairs (Bertby from IKEA sans the glass door). This cleared space so two tuners can sit side by side. With that done plus restoring the wood sleeve I have actually still to power it up for a listen. Its amazing how the arrival of one small tuner can trigger a series of layout changes in the house. Oh yes and I finished the Trough-Line tuner article which I have been preparing for since just before I bought your tuner.

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii364/davros124/LeakTroughlineTuners032.jpg

I will have a listen later today or tomorrow....thanks for asking. Glad you enjoyed the write up.


Regards D S D L

Ali Tait
22-05-2009, 08:08
Like to add my thanks also Neil,a very enjoyable read! Been hankering after a Troughline for a while now.Not got round to it yet.

Marco
22-05-2009, 09:50
Just noticed this thread :doh:

Neil, what a superbly produced, interesting and informative article; so thanks for that mate. You really do set an amazingly high standard with this sort of stuff! :youtheman:

This is an area of the forum which needs developing a little, too (just like S.O.G), so if you have the time it would be great if you could take this on as a little 'pet project' and produce some other articles of this nature on a variety of classic equipment. Rob and I were going to do it, but we just never had the time.

Well done - a superb read! :)

Perhaps you could research the history of the Shure M3D and some other 'classic cartridges' as your next project? ;)

Marco.

Mike
22-05-2009, 10:10
Perhaps you could research the history of the Shure M3D and some other 'classic cartridges' as your next project? ;)

<groan> :doh:

Neil... just cut out a few century's of waffle and go straight to 'The Travelling Minstrel'! :lolsign:

Think of it as 'Marco's iPod'!... the classic version.

Marco
22-05-2009, 10:29
Classic cartridges rule, Mikey, and lots of people with taste and discernment would love to see a 'Neil special' written on it, so........ :ner:

Actually, I'd like to see it included as part of, say, a history of broadcast equipment through the ages, with pictures of classic turntables, tonearms and consoles used by broadcasters in the States, and also the BBC from the 40s to the 70s - that type of thing. I'm sure this would make for a very interesting article :)

Marco.

SPS
22-05-2009, 10:40
a nice write up.. i have one of the early versions sat on my desk.. its been there 2 years now.. its in perfect condition.. i should plug it in and see if works...as sad as it sounds i like the look of it more than the later ones

cheers steve

Spectral Morn
22-05-2009, 11:56
Just noticed this thread :doh:

Neil, what a superbly produced, interesting and informative article; so thanks for that mate. You really do set an amazingly high standard with this sort of stuff! :youtheman: Well done - a superb read! :)


Thank you very much.



This is an area of the forum which needs developing a little, too (just like S.O.G), so if you have the time it would be great if you could take this on as a little 'pet project' and produce some other articles of this nature on a variety of classic equipment. Rob and I were going to do it, but we just never had the time.

No problem see what I can do....


Perhaps you could research the history of the Shure M3D and some other 'classic cartridges' as your next project? ;) Marco.

Not sure about that ;) It does help to know a bit about what you are writing...and being passionate about it helps too. I know a man who might be up to such a task....I will PM him and see if he might like too write such an item:eyebrows:

Other classic kit, typed articles YES I think I can do that....watch this space.

Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
22-05-2009, 12:02
a nice write up.. i have one of the early versions sat on my desk.. its been there 2 years now.. its in perfect condition.. i should plug it in and see if works...as sad as it sounds i like the look of it more than the later ones

cheers steve

Hi Steve.

The first Trough-Line...I assume it is the one you mean, is nice in a very clean minimal Deco style. For me its the Trough-Line 2 that I love the look of. In fact I think all the Leak pre-amplifiers that match the Trough-Line 2 are beautiful but the versions Leak did for the American market WOW. I wish I had some photos of these but I don't....or at least none I can show, for copy right reasons; they are in the Firsts in High Fidelity book by Stephen Spicer.


Regards D S D L

Spectral Morn
22-05-2009, 12:04
<groan> :doh:

Neil... just cut out a few century's of waffle and go straight to 'The Travelling Minstrel'! :lolsign:

Think of it as 'Marco's iPod'!... the classic version.

Yes Mike......

Marco's I-Pod....the early years.
http://www.malcolmmyers.com/portfolio_prints/pommer_minstral_12_11.jpg

He does like to go on a bit......;) :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:


Regards D S D L

Mike
22-05-2009, 12:29
I just KNEW you'd have an appropriate picture lurking up your sleave! ;)

Marco
22-05-2009, 13:12
Hehehe... Titter ye not, chap-ettes, the Marco-boy is having the last laugh every time he plays his system - the Tannoys will be the final link in the chain.

Next time you come round, Mikey, strap some serious padding onto your back because this time you (and it) will be blown out the window into the pub next door :eyebrows:

:ner:

:trust:

:dynamite:

Marco.

Mike
22-05-2009, 13:30
I'll strap myself to the Spendors then, they can come with me! :lol:

SPS
22-05-2009, 13:54
Hehehe... - the Tannoys will be the final link in the chain.

Marco.

i wonder.. they are very impresive sounding..

but.... the final link...

steve

Beechwoods
22-05-2009, 18:07
I'll strap myself to the Spendors then, they can come with me! :lol:

I'll have the left one, you can have the right :)

Marco
22-05-2009, 21:34
and do the hokey-cokey...

Marco.

spendorman
09-06-2009, 16:00
Very nice write up of The Leak Trough-Line.

I still have a Stereofetic (as well as many other tuners) and it is not too bad at all.

Spectral Morn
09-06-2009, 16:54
Very nice write up of The Leak Trough-Line.

I still have a Stereofetic (as well as many other tuners) and it is not too bad at all.


Thank you spendorman.

I have never heard or seen a Stereofetic. Maybe you might like to write about it on this thread with photos, it would complete the history of Leak tuners....what do you think ?


Regards D S D L

spendorman
09-06-2009, 17:53
I can take a few photos, it's not much to look at and my camera (and operator!) are not up to much. It was in a wooden cabinet that housed it and a Leak Stereo 70 (still have).

Spectral Morn
09-06-2009, 18:02
I can take a few photos, it's not much to look at and my camera (and operator!) are not up to much. It was in a wooden cabinet that housed it and a Leak Stereo 70 (still have).

Yes that sounds okay.... You might like to describe how it sounds as well, if you like, if not its ok.


Regards D S D L

spendorman
10-06-2009, 11:15
Here are some pics of a Stereofetic. It looks much better in the wooden sleeve that houses both the tuner and a Leak Stereo 70. Apologies for picture quality. Please feel free to organise or delete pics etc.

Difficult to describe sound quality, but its not bad at all. I have several other tuners to compare with including Quad FM4, FM3, FM1, Radford, Rogers, Pioneer, Technics, Sony, etc. etc.

I notice that the Stereofetic has a four gang tuning capacitor, that can't be bad.

spendorman
10-06-2009, 11:17
Here are a few more, could only upload 5 photos above.

Spectral Morn
10-06-2009, 13:40
Thank you for the photos. It looks very different inside...lots of empty air. The wood sleeves do add to the looks... I must admit to really liking the Leak visual design, however the American appearance for these Leak products is something else.

Thank you Spendorman much appreciated.


Regards D S D L

spendorman
10-06-2009, 13:58
"Empty air" probably partly due to the use of transistors and early IC's, those round metal devices that look like metal cased transistors. One can see the multiple connections (just) in the pics. Still its not a bad tuner. Fairly sensitive, does not overload easily, easy to tune, does not drift annoyingly, and sounds pretty good.

The Rogers Ravensbourne is a good tuner too, although the early model (usually with white marking on tuning scale) is not very sensitive. The later model (green markings on tuning scale) is fine though. Ithink the earlier is called Ravensbourne and the later one Ravensbourne FET. Memory fades though and I stand to be corrected.

I prefer the Ravensbourne FET to both the Quad FM3 and FM4.

Barry
12-06-2009, 15:40
Difficult to describe sound quality, but its not bad at all. I have several other tuners to compare with including Quad FM4, FM3, FM1, Radford, Rogers, Pioneer, Technics, Sony, etc. etc.



Hello spendorman

Nice photos. I would certainly be interested in a comparison of the Quad FM3and FM4 with the Radford (FMT-2 ?). Would you be willing to write a few words for AoS?

Thanks

Barry

DSJR
12-06-2009, 18:28
I don't know if the replacement T75 tuner from Rogers was that wonderful.. The T100 was amazing, but they're like hens teeth and fetch good money today I think.

DSJR
12-06-2009, 18:42
P.S. The FM4 is actually a good little tuner, easy to tune, use and obviously holds its value very well. It's also far more modern in its matching requirements and the radio performance was judged good at the time (the dear old FM3 had been totally outclassed as a "radio" many years before in the early to mid 1970's).

Barry
13-06-2009, 00:08
P.S. The FM4 is actually a good little tuner, easy to tune, use and obviously holds its value very well. It's also far more modern in its matching requirements and the radio performance was judged good at the time (the dear old FM3 had been totally outclassed as a "radio" many years before in the early to mid 1970's).

Dave,

Is the comment in parentheses reporting the perceived opinion at the time, or is it yours? If the latter, it doesn't seem to stack up with your posting (#11) on my thread.

Regards

Barry

DSJR
13-06-2009, 10:00
Dave,

Is the comment in parentheses reporting the perceived opinion at the time, or is it yours? If the latter, it doesn't seem to stack up with your posting (#11) on my thread.

Regards

Barry

Hi Barry, The internet is a funny thing, when we can't explain any more than our typing ability...:)

The "Sound quality" of tuners wasn't taken into serious consideration in the mid seventies, any more than the perceived sound quality of vinyl sources. When I say "radio" performance, I mean the usual measured parameters such as sensitivity, selectivity etc.. The likes of the Yamaha CT7000, Sansui 7700 and 9900 (i think that's the model numbers) and Accuphase 101 (?) were far more interesting technically and visually - they happened to sound great too, but that was a bonus back then).

In the company of all these relatively huge and lavishly finished Japanese tuners, the mid seventies UK efforts from Quad, Rogers, EAD (?) and Sugden looked crude and "quaint" by comparison, despite actually sounding good.

I hope that answers your question. It's not my habit to contradict myself or cause confusion in my posts. I didn't realise how basically "truthful" the FM3 could be until some years later, when listening to a proms concert actually sounded like a good facsimile of a proms I'd attended earlier that week (I worked in the West End then and regularly attended concerts at the RFH, RAH and rock gigs at the Hammersmith Odeon (Apollo), the BBC's Paris Theatre and Virgin's "The Venue").

I must say though, that in the late seventies, many reviewers used to feed a high quality music source into an FM modulator, fed into the tuner's aerial input and then the sound output of the tuner was level matched and compared with the source. All very clinical and objective, but this did give a fair hearing to these items.

Barry
14-06-2009, 16:05
Hi Barry, The internet is a funny thing, when we can't explain any more than our typing ability...:)

The "Sound quality" of tuners wasn't taken into serious consideration in the mid seventies, any more than the perceived sound quality of vinyl sources. When I say "radio" performance, I mean the usual measured parameters such as sensitivity, selectivity etc.. The likes of the Yamaha CT7000, Sansui 7700 and 9900 (I think that's the model numbers) and Accuphase 101 (?) were far more interesting technically and visually - they happened to sound great too, but that was a bonus back then).

In the company of all these relatively huge and lavishly finished Japanese tuners, the mid seventies UK efforts from Quad, Rogers, EAD (?) and Sugden looked crude and "quaint" by comparison, despite actually sounding good.

I hope that answers your question. It's not my habit to contradict myself or cause confusion in my posts. I didn't realise how basically "truthful" the FM3 could be until some years later, when listening to a proms concert actually sounded like a good facsimile of a proms I'd attended earlier that week (I worked in the West End then and regularly attended concerts at the RFH, RAH and rock gigs at the Hammersmith Odeon (Apollo), the BBC's Paris Theatre and Virgin's "The Venue").

I must say though, that in the late seventies, many reviewers used to feed a high quality music source into an FM modulator, fed into the tuner's aerial input and then the sound output of the tuner was level matched and compared with the source. All very clinical and objective, but this did give a fair hearing to these items.

Hi Dave,

Relax, I thought that was what you meant! :)

I'm afraid I don't go to nearly as many concerts as I used to. RFH, RAH, the Barbican (not as bad as people say - you basically get what you pay for when it comes to the seating) and good old Hammersmith Odeon; happy memories. I became fed up of only being able to obtain postal tickets for the cheaper seats for the Proms, so whilst forgoing atmosphere and presence, I am now content to let the BBC take me there. Their mikeing is so good that it offers a pretty good facsimile of being in the best seats at the Albert Hall (the stalls, not the boxes). One of the down-sides of attending live concerts is the feeling that whilst we have come a long way with the technology, we still have an awfully long way to go. There is nothing like listening to live music to make you realise how difficult it is to simultaneously obtain presence, atmosphere, detail, dynamics and sheer 'wallop' (when required). Can be quite depressing at times! :(

Regarding the use of an FM modulator for tuner comparison, I was thinking of doing the same, as it overcomes the ephemeral nature of broadcasting. However I dismissed the idea as I couldn't find a stereo modulator and really the important thing is, as you say, to assess the 'off-air' performance of a tuner.

Regards
Barry

Spectral Morn
15-06-2009, 12:11
Hi Barry, Spendorman and Dsjr


I moved all your speaker discussion, as I felt there was now enough material off-topic to have a nice thread about vintage speakers. Hope you don't mind.

Please continue your discussion in Vintage speaker ramblings..... Thanks


Regards D S D L

Barry
15-06-2009, 17:40
Hi Barry, Spendorman and Dsjr


I moved all your speaker discussion, as I felt there was now enough material off-topic to have a nice thread about vintage speakers. Hope you don't mind.

Please continue your discussion in Vintage speaker ramblings..... Thanks


Regards D S D L

Makes sense. I think Spendorman has answered all my questions, and was going to suggest that we were going 'off thread' (or whatever the expression is).

Regards
Barry

Adrian B
21-06-2009, 16:58
Great article on the Troughline. I found one in a junk shop in Hackney, E London for £15 about 15 years ago. I could tell that it had promise but I never felt settled enough to invest in a decent aerial. Now that I am settled I face a quandary - do I spend on a service (from One Thing etc), which I imagine is needed by now, and an aerial or do I use my freeview box to listen to digital broadcasts? Given that I mainly listen to human voice (BBC R4) I'm tending towards the latter and selling the Leak. Please tell me why I'm wrong

Adrian

DSJR
21-06-2009, 18:49
I'd find out how much London Sound would charge to set up and service your Leak and use that for a while longer..

Just my view and I suggest this as a service from LS may cost rather less than a full blown jobbie from OTA if you're not sure...:)

Spectral Morn
21-06-2009, 22:04
Great article on the Troughline. I found one in a junk shop in Hackney, E London for £15 about 15 years ago. I could tell that it had promise but I never felt settled enough to invest in a decent aerial. Now that I am settled I face a quandary - do I spend on a service (from One Thing etc), which I imagine is needed by now, and an aerial or do I use my freeview box to listen to digital broadcasts? Given that I mainly listen to human voice (BBC R4) I'm tending towards the latter and selling the Leak. Please tell me why I'm wrong

Adrian

Hi Adrian

I am glad you enjoyed my write up on the Leak Trough-Line FM tuner history.

To answer your question, I would get the Trough-Line serviced but it may not need it. Which Trough-Line is it ?

The one thing service is going to be less expensive than the GT audio, and maybe not as good...I don't know. However what I do know is that the quality of sound from a good Trough-Line is much better than a free-view box on its own or the same using its digital output to feed any quality or even high-end dac(I have tried that its better but not as good as FM IMHO)

Sky digital feeds about 192 k-bites and even that is poor..though better than free view.

2015 maybe the switch of date though digital Britain is a report and not a cast in stone policy(yet), however even if it is the case that 2015 is it I would and will for the next 6 years enjoy the excellent sound quality that can be had from the Leak Trough-Line.

Go get it sorted if it needs it..if not enjoy it as is, but in fairness it will be much better with a good service or modification such as Rodney Hanna did for me.

I have also written a sound quality item as well. You have read the history now read about why you should use your LTL (Link)http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2883 There is also a companion piece from Barry D Hunt that is also very much worth reading(Link)http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3007

Regards D S D L

Adrian B
22-06-2009, 16:09
Thanks chaps

I'm swayed. I've had work done by London Sounds before, which came in quite cheap if I recall. Still need a decent aerial though. Any recommendations? Are loft-aerials acceptable.

Thaks for the links - will read later

Adrian

Spectral Morn
22-06-2009, 16:39
Thanks chaps

I'm swayed. I've had work done by London Sounds before, which came in quite cheap if I recall. Still need a decent aerial though. Any recommendations? Are loft-aerials acceptable.

Thaks for the links - will read later

Adrian

I live close to the transmitter...so loft is okay for me all though it is a 5 element Yagi based design from Antiference (link)http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2942. This write up is about me fitting such an aerial and the results. If you don't live close to the transmitter then I am afraid outside mounting is needed. By putting the aerial in the roof-space you reduce its abilities and thus the signal strength drops off.


Regards D S D L

Adrian B
22-06-2009, 21:50
Thaks DSDL

I live in N London not far from Ally Pally - does that still transmit?

It's a LTL Stereo by the way. My new listening room (also known as a study as far as my wife-to-be is concerned) is just below the loft space so that looks like a good solution.

Adrian

Spectral Morn
24-06-2009, 08:16
Thaks DSDL

I live in N London not far from Ally Pally - does that still transmit?

I am sorry I don't know.


It's a LTL Stereo by the way. My new listening room (also known as a study as far as my wife-to-be is concerned) is just below the loft space so that looks like a good solution.

Adrian

Yes that sounds ideal...


Regards D S D L

Beechwoods
24-06-2009, 09:08
Adrian - this link may help you identify your local transmitter, and get your aerial set up correctly. If you employ the services of a professional fitter, they should know the appropriate configuration and direction to point the aerial as well. But it pays to know anyway.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/transmitters/radio/index.shtml

Barry
24-06-2009, 10:49
Thaks DSDL

I live in N London not far from Ally Pally - does that still transmit?

It's a LTL Stereo by the way. My new listening room (also known as a study as far as my wife-to-be is concerned) is just below the loft space so that looks like a good solution.

Adrian

Hello Adrian,

No, Alexandra Palace stopped transmitting years ago. Your nearest FM transmitter will be Wrotham; the same as for me. It is one of the more powerful transmitters in the country, so where you live in North London, you should only need a simple aerial - a bit of 'wet string' ought to do!

If you are going to put the aerial in the loft, make sure that any aluminised roof felting that is in line with the aerial has the aluminium layer removed, as it will tend to screen out the FM signal.

Barry

Adrian B
08-07-2009, 21:47
Thanks fo rthose replies. Wrotham it is, but that was also true where I used to live (closer to S London) and reception was not particularly good then. So, if I do get a loft aerial I will be careful. Obviously, given that I now have a dedicated listening room/study, I can experiment with all sorts of ugly pieces of string first.

Adrian

Barry
08-07-2009, 21:59
Thanks for those replies. Wrotham it is, but that was also true where I used to live (closer to S London) and reception was not particularly good then. So, if I do get a loft aerial I will be careful. Obviously, given that I now have a dedicated listening room/study, I can experiment with all sorts of ugly pieces of string first.

Adrian

Don't take my 'wet string' remark literally; you ought, however, to be able to manage very nicely with a very simple loft mounted dipole. Around twenty years ago I demonstrated to a friend of mine, living near Alexandra Palace, that his Quad valved tuner (the FM2) would work quite well by simply touching a long, thin, screwdriver to the centre contact of the coaxial aerial socket!

Regards