View Full Version : Great high-end amps from the UK?
nickbaba
06-10-2013, 15:30
I'm in the market for a new integrated amp. My home system has a McIntosh MA7000 which I love. Thinking about getting a used Bryston B100.
But they're both made overseas and imported here at a high premium. I'd like to know if there's a comparable manufacturer in the UK?
Who makes great high-quality amps here in the UK? Not mid-range eg Cambridge, NAD etc. but high-end.
Any suggestions most appreciated! Cheers.
Define 'High End!'
The top Cambridge Audio integrated should work a treat despite the name and price. Bryston is now double the relative price it used to be, so I'd ignore it now in all honesty, as profit has taken over the scene it seems. In a similar vein, the HK990 has friends amongst those who know it. NAD have two ranges IIRC, the grey basic ones and the fancy silver models at OTT prices to match, which perform well IIRC.
One of the best integrateds currently is probably made by ATC. Damned solid over-engineered case to match their over-engineered speakers and owners love them!
Apologies to Naimees, but I don't regard any of their integrated amp solutions as being anywhere near Top End, apart from the price and status the brand still seems to convey. Too much distortion and sonic 'character' still, although the cases are nice these days!
(Did I mention the Rega Elicit R? Oh well ;))
hifi_dave
06-10-2013, 15:43
Depending on budget, what about Croft, Rega, Sonneteer and LFD. All excellent and British.
StanleyB
06-10-2013, 15:44
Glenn Croft could probably build you a high end amp depending on how much you want to spend.
The UK have a few Tube Distinction and Chord come to mind
Very thought provoking thread this, Sadly looking at the equipment I use I note I only have 3 current production items made in Britain and they are all tonearms
I can only think of two manufactures that make an intergrated amp worth owning (outside of the good old US of A)
and they are both Italian, Graaf or Viva for me
Paul
I would try to demo an LFD NCSE.
Stratmangler
06-10-2013, 16:01
Longdog Audio :)
Ali Tait
06-10-2013, 16:19
Longdog Audio :)
+1.
Albarry:
http://www.albarrymusic.com/
These amps could put most of the so-called "high end" to shame. I'm a recent convert.
Gordon Steadman
06-10-2013, 16:31
Esoteric Audio Research.
Tim DeParavicini is a good bloke. Anyone who can make me smile by getting his beemer sideways driving through that little estate in Huntingdon is as high end as they get as far as I'm concernedt:)
applemarc
06-10-2013, 17:24
You could always try an NVA amp if you don't like it send it back for a full refund so nothing to lose.
MC2 amps aren't half bad and inexpensive second hand.
I'll second an NVA amp, had the entry level and a pair of small mono blocks, only sold to raise funds for a (yet another failed) house move.
Sugden; highly recommended.
Andrew B
06-10-2013, 18:11
I'll second an NVA amp, had the entry level and a pair of small mono blocks, only sold to raise funds for a (yet another failed) house move.
Thirded. Is that a proper word?
I've got a Bryston 4b and a Krell KSA 80 sat at home, alongside Audio Research and Perreaux preamps. I've also had McIntosh. All very good but I prefer my NVA monoblocks, even though I only have the smallest and cheapest ones.
Sovereign
06-10-2013, 18:11
I've always been very impressed with NVA amps
Would like to give an nva integrated a go sometime.
Can't believe i've never heard one.
Hmm... DSJR criticises Naim and recommends Rega - business as usual then...
(oh, of course Croft were also mentioned)
Have I misunderstood the premise of this thread I thought the OP asked for recommendations for a British intergrated amp comparable to his Mcintosh MA7000:doh:
Longdog Audio :)
+1. He is also happy to loan out units for home demo
Alan Sircom
06-10-2013, 20:14
I'm in the market for a new integrated amp. My home system has a McIntosh MA7000 which I love. Thinking about getting a used Bryston B100.
But they're both made overseas and imported here at a high premium. I'd like to know if there's a comparable manufacturer in the UK?
Who makes great high-quality amps here in the UK? Not mid-range eg Cambridge, NAD etc. but high-end.
Any suggestions most appreciated! Cheers.
If you define high-end as you are (heavy on the power delivery, solid state), you are probably out of luck. Chord's CPM 3350 and Leema Tucana II are probably the nearest to your demands. The Rega Elicit-R gets close, but it does depend on your loudspeakers - it delivers healthy power amounts into eight ohm loads, but may fold under questioning if you need an amp that can cope with gnarly phase angles.
The British, it seems, are mostly afraid of the Watt.
http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/543/6uke.jpg
Marco.
anthonyTD
06-10-2013, 20:26
As far as integrated's are concerned,
Glenn Croft, or Nick Lurcher [lLongdog] are easily capable of building you something to be proud of...
A...
As far as integrated's are concerned,
Glenn Croft, or Nick Lurcher [lLongdog] are easily capable of building you something to be proud of...
A...
+1....add Neil Burnett to that list and you have a British trio to match the best of the rest.
...and it is bemusing why so many equate "high end" with huge wattage. The two can be mutually exclusive or inclusive depending on power requirements. The quality of an amp circuit is not always proportional to the power it generates.
I'm in the market for a new integrated amp. My home system has a McIntosh MA7000 which I love. Thinking about getting a used Bryston B100.
But they're both made overseas and imported here at a high premium. I'd like to know if there's a comparable manufacturer in the UK?
Who makes great high-quality amps here in the UK? Not mid-range eg Cambridge, NAD etc. but high-end.
Any suggestions most appreciated! Cheers.
What speakers?
Alan Sircom
06-10-2013, 20:52
+1....add Neil Burnett to that list and you have a British trio to match the best of the rest.
...and it is bemusing why so many equate "high end" with huge wattage. The two can be mutually exclusive or inclusive depending on power requirements. The quality of an amp circuit is not always proportional to the power it generates.
Because in many systems, the power it generates defines the quality of the system. The nicest sounding low-power amplifier on the planet is going to deliver a dog-rough sound if its driving Magneplanar 3.7 for example, because they are a flat panel into which one pours Watts.
Because in many systems, the power it generates defines the quality of the system. The nicest sounding low-power amplifier on the planet is going to deliver a dog-rough sound if its driving Magneplanar 3.7 for example, because they are a flat panel into which one pours Watts.
I agree with you Alan, but not all loudspeakers have loads as difficult as Maggie 3.7's and in fact, one could almost say that there are as many efficient and sensitive designs in the "high end" as there are inefficient and insensitive. Sorry, not meaning to be awkward or anything, just pointing out that circuit topology and quality of components and build are all fine in their own right but amps and speakers need considering as part of one circuit, so generalisations are inaccurate ways of describing what one might consider "high end". I guess, we first need a definition of what "high end" is!
For me, it is simply a combination of amp, speaker (and connecting cables) that with an appropriate source, can deliver recorded signals with the minimum of distortion and with as much transient (dynamics) performance as the mastered recording in "measurist" terms whilst engaging emotionally (subjective)....all built to a high standard and as a bonus, aesthetically pleasing. That in itself lends the definition to describe a multitude of permeations not all of which rely on high power requirements.
Never heard one myself but Devialet seems to have a lot of rave comments, maybe worth an audition if you can find a dealer near you.
Wonderful though they are, Devialet are not 'from the UK'.
Nickbaba
(1) I'm sure you will get better advice if we know what speakers you are running. I'm not too fussed on 'system matching' but unless you have some great 'all-rounders' the speakers will make a difference to what amp you should get.
(2) I am running an ATC SIA2. I am happy with it. Check out http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/client-list/artists/ and the related entries. If you are looking for for many features you would need to look elsewhere - no phono stage, no balance controls, no treble/bass. I have not heard CA's latest amps but the ATC is in another league to say the CA 840.
(3) Surely you cannot look past Valves. I have not heard Icon Audio products, but I do know they have quite a reputation. They seem to have big range and I think there must be something for you there.
wiicrackpot
06-10-2013, 22:22
Wonderful though they are, Devialet are not 'from the UK'.
Thanks Joe, just realised that so post deleted. :rolleyes:
Stratmangler
06-10-2013, 22:33
I have not heard Icon Audio products, but I do know they have quite a reputation. They seem to have big range and I think there must be something for you there.
I've yet to hear anything they do sound good.
Pedestrian and opaque are two adjectives I'd use.
Put another way, they have never managed to demonstrate an amplifier/speaker pairing that sounds half decent IMO.
nickbaba
06-10-2013, 22:53
Cheers guys.
Been out all evening - came home to find a load of interesting suggestions! Will take me a while to follow up on all of them.
I should probably clarify that I was asking specifically about British amps as (a) I'm keen to buy British and support our home economy, and (b) as I mentioned imported amps seem to be sold at a high premium compared to their country-of-origin prices.
I'm not replacing my McIntosh, I'm very happy with it, but I'm putting together a new audio set-up in a different location, so starting from scratch again.
Budget is by no means unlimited, unfortunately. I managed to snag a great deal on my pre-owned MA7000 and was hoping to go the same route again this time around, so getting a bespoke amp hand built for me is probably not on the cards this time, tempting though it is. Budget is around the £2000 mark, so for that, as mentioned, I thought I could find a pre-owned Bryston or similar. (A 4 year old B100 sold tonight on t'bay for just over 1,500)
As far as speakers are concerned I've been using Cerwin Vega XLS 12s - they're not known as high end but they are great for bass heavy music like dub and dance and they are very forgiving sound-wise, tending towards the laid-back, not bright and trebley. The only thing is they do need an amp with the power to drive them properly, especially if they're turned up loud, but 100W is more than enough in practise. I rarely see the meters on the McI go over 25W in normal use.
Alan Sircom
06-10-2013, 23:45
I agree with you Alan, but not all loudspeakers have loads as difficult as Maggie 3.7's and in fact, one could almost say that there are as many efficient and sensitive designs in the "high end" as there are inefficient and insensitive. Sorry, not meaning to be awkward or anything, just pointing out that circuit topology and quality of components and build are all fine in their own right but amps and speakers need considering as part of one circuit, so generalisations are inaccurate ways of describing what one might consider "high end". I guess, we first need a definition of what "high end" is!
For me, it is simply a combination of amp, speaker (and connecting cables) that with an appropriate source, can deliver recorded signals with the minimum of distortion and with as much transient (dynamics) performance as the mastered recording in "measurist" terms whilst engaging emotionally (subjective)....all built to a high standard and as a bonus, aesthetically pleasing. That in itself lends the definition to describe a multitude of permeations not all of which rely on high power requirements.
Agreed, but if someone is looking for a UK equivalent of something like a McIntosh or Bryston, they are probably not looking for a low power design. Attempts to define what is and isn't the high end quickly become academic if design requirements are fixed by the OP.
Ultimately, whether those requirements are fixed by the constraints of the system or by the wishes of the end-user are also academic. If you are looking for a new four bedroom house for the family, no amount of glib sales patter will convince you to buy a one-bedroom flat, no matter how nice it is.
Knowledge is power though. Given the Cerwin Vega speakers now listed, I think you could cross off the bigger beast amps - and almost anything with valves - off the list. The speakers are efficient, but those bass cones need a lot of control to keep them in check. A Musical Fidelity M6i would drive these extremely well.
When I have heard McIntosh and Bryston they have always struck me as being poles appart (in terms of sound)!
nickbaba
07-10-2013, 11:04
@ Alan Sircom
Thanks for the tip re: Musical Fidelity M6i. Very interesting and pretty much on budget. Will definitely try to audition one.
Hmm... DSJR criticises Naim and recommends Rega - business as usual then...
(oh, of course Croft were also mentioned)
Umm, do Rega rehash an old 1950's PA amp design in the same basic layout each generation, increasing prices further with each model change? last I heard, they took the DAC out of the Supernait, spread the remaining boards out a bit more and increased the purchase price for the privilege!!!!!
Sorry Mark, the sooner you stop being welded to your ancient and rather outclassed 135's, the more you'll hear from your ton-up Yamaha based speakers..
Croft is well known and respected around these parts, even though the power amp isn't the lowest distortion product around. Albarry's already been mentioned above - I think you should try some ;)
wiicrackpot
07-10-2013, 12:24
@ Alan Sircom
Thanks for the tip re: Musical Fidelity M6i. Very interesting and pretty much on budget. Will definitely try to audition one.
Pen in MC2 Audio MC750 (£300.00 to £400.00'ish) will get you a no thrills Pro amp and control them big murtha Cervin drivers,
i am through with home audio/audiophile kit with big prices.
Pen in MC2 Audio MC750 (£300.00 to £400.00'ish) will get you a no thrills Pro amp and control them big murtha Cervin drivers,
i am through with home audio/audiophile kit with big prices.
Nice Freudian slip there. :D
i am through with home audio/audiophile kit with big prices.
Or see this (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?23098-Carvin-DCM200L-or-can-a-guitar-amp-cut-it-in-a-hi-fi-system) for another example of big power/big drive for peanuts money.
nickbaba
07-10-2013, 12:50
Well, its not just about power...
I was running those Cerwin's off a Yamaha P2550s for a while (see here: http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/power-amps/p_series/p2500s/).
Loads of power, cheap as chips but the sound was, well, not exactly great.
As a previous poster asked "define hight-end"?
Well, one answer might be Transparency, Clarity and Power - enough to properly accomodate dynamic peaks, even at low volume. Not to mention drive those 12" bass cones...
wiicrackpot
07-10-2013, 13:07
Nice Freudian slip there. :D
:D I am just a natural. :eyebrows:
Or see this (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?23098-Carvin-DCM200L-or-can-a-guitar-amp-cut-it-in-a-hi-fi-system) for another example of big power/big drive for peanuts money.
Looks good Martin, might have a closer look at one for back up, less hefty and take up less room.
p.s.. just remembered i bought one of these for £47.00 and like you with your son's amp, was mightily impressed with the SQ.
http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/20-302_CANFORD-UTILITY-POWER-AMPLIFIER-Mk.2-2x-45W-8-balanced-inputs-rackmount-1U
Well, its not just about power...
I was running those Cerwin's off a Yamaha P2550s for a while (see here: http://uk.yamaha.com/en/products/proaudio/power-amps/p_series/p2500s/).
Loads of power, cheap as chips but the sound was, well, not exactly great.
As a previous poster asked "define hight-end"?
Well, one answer might be Transparency, Clarity and Power - enough to properly accomodate dynamic peaks, even at low volume. Not to mention drive those 12" bass cones...
The answer is on post #45. ;)
nickbaba
07-10-2013, 13:51
Anyone have experience with one of those MF M6i's?
Seems Musical Fidelity have an iffy reputation online... or is that just their older gear?
Arkless Electronics
07-10-2013, 14:32
Define high end......
Is it the best circuit design? "Boutique" components? front panels made from milled 1/2" thick alloy with brass name badge held on with gold plated screws? price tag that makes you go "how much???!!! :eek: "
All of the above?
nickbaba
07-10-2013, 14:37
Hah! yeah... all of the above...!!
I couldn't care less what an amp looks like - I'm not planning to sit and look at it. If I want to spend several grand on something pretty I'll take Mrs.Baba on a shopping spree...;)
I just want an amp that SOUNDS fantastic! Something that makes music sound, well, musical!
Define high end......
Is it the best circuit design? "Boutique" components? front panels made from milled 1/2" thick alloy with brass name badge held on with gold plated screws? price tag that makes you go "how much???!!! :eek: "
All of the above?
It also has to be a 2 man lift at least to sound any good! :eek:
When someone used the term "high end" on a forum does that mean it has to cost a lot as that is normally what the term means. It's more important for it to gel with the rest of your gear surely and for that to happen we need to know what you are using to be able to recommend something that will do the biz for you.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/EAR-Yoshino-V20-Integrated-Valve-Amplifier-/221293346278?pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiF i_Amplifiers&hash=item33861c7de6 If you get this at the entry price a stunning bit of kit
Sadly for us in the UK, E.A.R. hiked all their prices to stratospheric levels a couple of years back, so they'd look better in the far east, which is where they do huge amounts of business apparently. Product there is bought for status reasons apparently and too cheap means no good, regardless of actual performance.
Sadly for us in the UK, E.A.R. hiked all their prices to stratospheric levels a couple of years back, so they'd look better in the far east, which is where they do huge amounts of business apparently. Product there is bought for status reasons apparently and too cheap means no good, regardless of actual performance.
...as happened with Tannoy, in particular the "Prestige" range of loudspeakers.
Sadly for us in the UK, E.A.R. hiked all their prices to stratospheric levels a couple of years back, so they'd look better in the far east, which is where they do huge amounts of business apparently. Product there is bought for status reasons apparently and too cheap means no good, regardless of actual performance.
It is also to keep demand, and thus production, down. Also, Tim De Paravicini has been designing gear since the 60s and has huge respect across listeners and the industry. It is like comparing an oil painting of a young, developing artist to their far more matured and good mature work, it's made from the same stuff, the same 'components', but I know which one I would pay more for. Prices should go up as talented designers get older, and near retirement with all those years of experience behind them. It is as foolish to underprice a product that isn't for mass-market or budget production.
nickbaba
07-10-2013, 17:14
@ MCRU
Fair point - does "high end" as I used the term mean "high priced"?
Not necessarily. As posted above, its all about the sound for me. If I can find the sound I enjoy from budget or mid range kit then I'm happy. Its not about showing off the latest UFO-looking amp on my living room shelf. In fact I'd much rather have a plain metal box that sounds incredible.
Its just that SQ often seems to equate to higher cost - up to a point. Of course there must be a sweet spot in that balance, beyond which you're just wasting money for brand-name, or looks or gimmicks, I guess...
The Grand Wazoo
07-10-2013, 18:49
Blimey, someone ought to start a thread about the definition of 'high end'......or something similar.
Oh, wait a minute....
Blimey, someone ought to start a thread about the definition of 'high end'......or something similar
Still getting to that one, Chris ;)
The Grand Wazoo
07-10-2013, 19:17
He-heh!
Arkless Electronics
07-10-2013, 22:57
Sadly for us in the UK, E.A.R. hiked all their prices to stratospheric levels a couple of years back, so they'd look better in the far east, which is where they do huge amounts of business apparently. Product there is bought for status reasons apparently and too cheap means no good, regardless of actual performance.
Yeh That's about right.... also why there is so much chrome and gold etc to the kit now.... good taste in the far east is not what we would call good taste! (aesthetics wise). That's why we had to make the Alchemist stuff so "bling" looking! Tim's a lovely bloke, very clever, but mad as a badger (in the nicest possible way!) so best of luck to him... he's earned it!
Yeh That's about right.... also why there is so much chrome and gold etc to the kit now.... good taste in the far east is not what we would call good taste! (aesthetics wise). That's why we had to make the Alchemist stuff so "bling" looking! Tim's a lovely bloke, very clever, but mad as a badger (in the nicest possible way!) so best of luck to him... he's earned it!
Never like the cosmetics of any TdP gear. But respect to the man who designed a valve amplifier to directly drive the stator electrodes of the Quad 57, thereby avoiding the use of two transformers (one step-down, the other step-up!), and who quite happily demonstrates his speakers and amplifiers using "bog standard" two-core mains flex.
Arkless Electronics
08-10-2013, 10:58
Never like the cosmetics of any TdP gear. But respect to the man who designed a valve amplifier to directly drive the stator electrodes of the Quad 57, thereby avoiding the use of two transformers (one step-down, the other step-up!), and who quite happily demonstrates his speakers and amplifiers using "bog standard" two-core mains flex.
He wasn't the first to do that! Acoustat had a commercial offering around the late '70's.
Ali Tait
08-10-2013, 16:45
Nick is building me one for my ER Audio statics.
Umm, do Rega rehash an old 1950's PA amp design in the same basic layout each generation, increasing prices further with each model change? last I heard, they took the DAC out of the Supernait, spread the remaining boards out a bit more and increased the purchase price for the privilege!!!!!
Sorry Mark, the sooner you stop being welded to your ancient and rather outclassed 135's, the more you'll hear from your ton-up Yamaha based speakers..
Croft is well known and respected around these parts, even though the power amp isn't the lowest distortion product around. Albarry's already been mentioned above - I think you should try some ;)
OK Dave...if you say so...
Nick is building me one for my ER Audio statics.
How is that progressing Ali?
He wasn't the first to do that! Acoustat had a commercial offering around the late '70's.
I didn't say he was the first (with any ELS), but he was the first to do so with the Quad 57.
Pete The Cat
08-10-2013, 19:54
Avondale.
Pete
Ali Tait
08-10-2013, 20:10
How is that progressing Ali?
It isn't really at the moment, down to me I hasten to add. Been spending on getting my 401 up and running.
It'll get done eventually..
nickbaba
08-10-2013, 20:39
So... assuming I did go down the route of using an affordable power amp like the MC2 or Yamaha 2500 - wouldn't I still need a decent (high-end) pre amp to connect all my sources (phono amp, cd, dac etc) to?
In that case wouldn't it be the pre-amp which would really be making the big difference to SQ? And if so, would it not still be worth my while to buy as "high-end" as my budget allows?
The Outcast
08-10-2013, 21:34
Mmmm. A very interesting thread indeed. I have been glued to this one. It is also an area of Hi-fi that i feel reflects the multicultural society in which we live in the fact that just what the hell is British? Living as i do just down the road from the Nissan plant which make brilliant cars like the Duke. A japanese company designing and manufacturing cars in the UK by UK tradesman. Do they make Japanese cars or British cars? I think you get my drift.
I find it intriguing that people's perception of British amplifiers hark back to the mid/late seventies and eighties hifi icons like A&R Cambridge (Arcam), Quad,Meridian, and some of the excellent brands recommended in this thread may be British by heritage yet as multicultural as London, Bradford, Birmingham. My point is that just like our lovely country, so called British amplifiers are multicultured too. Just like our steel and textile industry British companies sacked their work force and retained UK admin address's whilst having their products made in the far East and as we all know, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Being as i am a regular visit to the US i have to say that whilst i loath their politics (especially foreign policy) i love their patriotism espesially their promorion of their own brands and keeping them just that.
I guess what i am saying is that whist you know that your McKintosh amplifier is American, can you be sure just what your supposed UK option would be? And does it martter anyway? As for high end, Gawd, that's a debate in itself. what is important here? Music or kudos? Open your mind good sir. It took me a while but it paid dividends. As Forest Gump once said "That's all i got to say about that".
The Grand Wazoo
08-10-2013, 21:40
Your line of thought is correct to a degree, but for every McIntosh still making stuff in the US, there's a Marantz who have gone to the same part of the world as most of our once proud manufacturing industry!
nickbaba
08-10-2013, 21:46
Fair and interesting points, Outcast, and yes, is an amplifier "British" that's designed and sold here but assembled overseas with Japanese or Chinese circuits and components?
A rose by any other name...?
But that's a philosophical question for the sincere chinstrokers...;)
My interest in buying "British" is simply motivated by not wanting to pay £ prices for $ items, if you see what I mean. I was curious to see if I could be recommended something locally of a comparable quality? That was my OP at the top of the thread.
Mmmm. A very interesting thread indeed. I have been glued to this one. It is also an area of Hi-fi that i feel reflects the multicultural society in which we live in the fact that just what the hell is British? Living as i do just down the road from the Nissan plant which make brilliant cars like the Duke. A japanese company designing and manufacturing cars in the UK by UK tradesman. Do they make Japanese cars or British cars? I think you get my drift.
I find it intriguing that people's perception of British amplifiers hark back to the mid/late seventies and eighties hifi icons like A&R Cambridge (Arcam), Quad,Meridian, and some of the excellent brands recommended in this thread may be British by heritage yet as multicultural as London, Bradford, Birmingham. My point is that just like our lovely country, so called British amplifiers are multicultured too. Just like our steel and textile industry British companies sacked their work force and retained UK admin address's whilst having their products made in the far East and as we all know, if you pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Being as i am a regular visit to the US i have to say that whilst i loath their politics (especially foreign policy) i love their patriotism espesially their promorion of their own brands and keeping them just that.
I guess what i am saying is that whist you know that your McKintosh amplifier is American, can you be sure just what your supposed UK option would be? And does it martter anyway? As for high end, Gawd, that's a debate in itself. what is important here? Music or kudos? Open your mind good sir. It took me a while but it paid dividends. As Forest Gump once said "That's all i got to say about that".
I think you will find that Mcintosh is infact now an Italian owned company as is Audio Research so not sure what your point is
PaulStewart
08-10-2013, 21:58
Art Audio, a great range of British amps made by a Scot in England. Worth checking out.
Paul
trio leo
09-10-2013, 00:49
Although not in the price range previously mentioned, there is a company that designs and hand builds all their amplifiers in Great Britain,
I do believe they are "High End" in quality and for the performance they give, excellent VFM, they also last for years.
I have been a fan for years and owned every model they've made.
The OP asked about "Great high-end amps from the UK? .................Albarry Music amplifiers
enjoy your music
regards Al
Umm, do Rega rehash an old 1950's PA amp design in the same basic layout each generation, increasing prices further with each model change?
Do you think the Rega circuit is innovative in some way? The majority of amplifiers use circuit topologies that were invented at the inception of transistors - you are being very selective using this criticism (most valve amps use even older circuit topology).
last I heard, they took the DAC out of the Supernait, spread the remaining boards out a bit more and increased the purchase price for the privilege!!!!!
Last you heard... I haven't a clue and don't honestly care - I won't be buying it and I suggest you don't either. Naim support the idea of sale by demonstration so any potential buyer can make up their own mind.
Sorry Mark, the sooner you stop being welded to your ancient and rather outclassed 135's, the more you'll hear from your ton-up Yamaha based speakers..
Well sorry Dave, but your comments just reinforce the deep held resentment you seem to hold towards Naim. The reality is that my 135's are no more ancient than most of the gear you 'rate'. As far as them being outclassed - well that is your opinion and not one I share. I'm quite happy to change them when I hear something better...but not just for the sake of it (and I'm afraid not just because you don't like Naim either)
Croft is well known and respected around these parts, even though the power amp isn't the lowest distortion product around. Albarry's already been mentioned above - I think you should try some ;)
Umm.. So what? I'm not interested in criticising either manufacturer (and you won't find me recommending Naim either). However, I've heard demonstrations of Albarry amps a few times now and remember them when they first came out (70's?) - the quality of the demonstrations varied but I haven't been tempted to investigate them further.
Pen in MC2 Audio MC750 (£300.00 to £400.00'ish) will get you a no thrills Pro amp and control them big murtha Cervin drivers,
i am through with home audio/audiophile kit with big prices.
+1, Our esteemed leader here had a fun night listening/comparing my MC650 with Ian's Copper beauty.
The prices 2nd hand are now starting to get a tad higher than that as word spreads. They aren't cheap new btw.
FWIW the MC2's are widely used studio workhorse and MC2 have recently launched an audiophile friendly version...old style test bench on standard amp here: http://www.abeltronics.co.uk/amptesting.php?z=MC2_MC650
topoxforddoc
09-10-2013, 20:13
Another truly High End UK amplifier company is TRON. Designed and made in Denham, Bucks with components sourced almost entirely form the UK - with bespoke hand wound transformers, caps, resistors, PCBs and metalwork. Exquisitely made to order and bespoke. Sound truly wonderful - as good as Kondo and used by manufacturers in their personal systems eg Thomas Woschnick of TW Acustic.
OK, they come with a truly high end price tag, but they absolutely merit the price. Not within the OP's budget, but another example of High End UK electronics.
nickbaba
09-10-2013, 21:15
Very interesting Cooky. Can I ask, what is the audiophile-friendly amp from MC2 that you mentioned?
Is it the T Series?
Very interesting Cooky. Can I ask, what is the audiophile-friendly amp from MC2 that you mentioned?
Is it the T Series?
S series here; http://www.mc2-audio.co.uk/s800.html
Alan Sircom
10-10-2013, 10:54
So... assuming I did go down the route of using an affordable power amp like the MC2 or Yamaha 2500 - wouldn't I still need a decent (high-end) pre amp to connect all my sources (phono amp, cd, dac etc) to?
In that case wouldn't it be the pre-amp which would really be making the big difference to SQ? And if so, would it not still be worth my while to buy as "high-end" as my budget allows?
In order...
Yes. Probably. Yes.
Arguably the preamp contributes most to the overall performance of the amplifier, assuming the power amplifier is not hopelessly mis-matched with the loudspeakers (this is unlikely with Cerwin Vegas - although they need power to grip those bass units, they are sensitive and the minimum impedance is benign enough to make them easy to drive with almost any amplifier). I don't necessarily subscribe to the 'straight wire with gain' argument suggesting all power amps basically sound the same, but the preamplifier is the part where the wheels are most likely to come off the wagon in the whole amplifier bit. The same applies in the preamplifier stage within an integrated amplifier, but usually these have the advantage of working with a known and fixed power amplifier section also within the integrated amp, so the two are designed in tandem and designed to work well together.
There are some excellent pre-power combinations recommended in this thread, but some of them seem to be a touch out of band, given the kind of budget you are pointing toward. Albarry, Art Audio and Tron are fine UK made products, but including both preamp and power amps will be pushing you toward a considerable investment beyond that budget, especially in the latter case. I think you might still be better off with a good integrated amplifier as you originally suggested, under the circumstances.
I also think that, despite the antipathy toward retailers endemic to many forums, your best bet at this stage is to have a couple of professional demonstrations of UK made integrated amplifiers within your budget. If you are unable to obtain a home demonstration, ideally bring your own speakers and your music to the store's demonstration listening room to replicate the amp/speaker interaction. If this is impossible, you can usually 'listen through' some pretty substantial differences in system, because if one amplifier sounds intrinsically 'right' to you, chances are that would apply more universally than many here would care to admit.
From experience, try to limit the number of products you audition - if you listen to five different amplifiers in relatively quick succession and still feel you haven't found the right one, you are probably expecting too much from the whole experience, and it becomes increasingly unlikely that subsequent amplifiers thrown into the mix will hit the spot. It's all too easy to fall victim to the tyranny of choice at this point.
However, the most important thing to take along is an open mind. If you listen to a few amplifiers and conclude that the one you like is the one everybody on a forum hates, screw 'em. They don't have to live with your choice... you do. They don't have your room, your system, your ears... you do. People in audio often have strong opinions coupled with very long memories - their like or dislike toward the products of a manufacturer may be swayed by an event that took place decades ago (even the Great Train Robbers only got 30 years), and you should not let such things cloud your judgment.
+1
Great advice, Alan. That may well be my post of the year so far.
nickbaba
10-10-2013, 14:20
@ Alan Sircom
Many thanks for a great post, and for taking the time to write such an informative and helpful piece of advice. +1 from me for post of the year!
I do take your point about the synergy between matched units in a single box, and I have not written off the possibility of an integrated amp by any means. I do still intend to audition a M6i, which I believe was your suggestion from an earlier post on this thread. It does seem that many suggestions on this thread have been for separates. Perhaps that's a reflection of what's on offer, or sought after, in the (ahem) 'high end' of home audio.
TBH I wasn't really in the market for a separates system, but I am tempted by the idea of using a 'Pro' amp at home as a way of getting more watts-for-my-buck. Its something I have tried before, as I used to run a Yamaha 2500S into my XLS 12s, but back then I was feeding it with a (good quality) Rodec DJ mixer as a pre-amp and wasn't really satisfied with the SQ. Bit of a blunt instrument, I felt.
But having done some research online its looks like there are Pro amps capable of a good clean Class A signal (at least at low wattage). The Mc2 amps are repeatedly cited as a bit of a gem, and compared favourably to Brystons. The limiters are out of the signal path, and highly unlikely to ever kick in during normal home use anyway, which is also true for the cooling fans. My Yamaha always ran cool and the fans never activated in all the time I used it.
So its tempting to look at a 2nd hand serviced Pro amp with a decent 2nd hand SS pre (Bryston BP25 or similar) as a way to put together a very powerful home set-up with good SQ for under £2000 total. I'm not sure about using a tube pre with a Pro amp. Croft, Art Audio and others make lovely tube pre's but I don't know at all if they would be a good match with a Pro amp, and tbh I'm wary of asking them directly - not sure how they would take that suggestion!
However, I am bearing in mind the advice about properly matching pre to amp, and will also investigate integrateds before making up my mind. Its certainly a simpler solution. But at the power levels I'm looking at to drive my Cerwin's with plenty of headroom, its a more expensive one. The M6i is a definite possibility, and I should be able to audition one locally (SW London). I'm open to other suggestions - at this point not necessarily British, although that would still be nice. However, it does seem that we Brits tend towards lower wattage than might suit me. (Lots of 50W British power amps out there - nothing wrong with that but doesn't really work for my needs.)
Once again thanks for taking the time to post and offer your help. Much appreciated.
I've tried Behringer pro amps with a Croft micro basic and that didn't work out at all well, if that's any help. I have found the Croft to be a bit fussy about partnerign amps, the best combo I have tried being the Croft series 7, unsurprisingly. A passive pre amp with a pro amp could well be worth a try though.
nickbaba
11-10-2013, 11:04
Good to know, Macca - cheers.
Maybe get a switch box to cope with the multiple inputs and an amp eg MC2 650 which has a volume control.
nickbaba
11-10-2013, 21:51
Whoa!
Interesting, Smithy - I never even knew such a thing existed!
Makes sense - maybe I don't need a pre to input sources if the power amp has gain controls... will look into it! Cheers.
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