Digital cartridge/stylus gauge? Inaccurate!

[JazzBones]

Hi folks and needle jockeys, need a bit of info come advice on stylus weight gauges please. For some time now I have been using a digital read out gauge (infrequently) but yesterday when I was trying to perfectly align my Koetsu Black and back up cartridge AT33EV the gauge gave me wildly flickering and inaccurate readings. I put this down to my gauge, a ' Canrong Phonograph arm Load professional meter' not being compatible with with these two MC cartridges or any MC. In view of this I would like to get hold of a Shure non-magnetic bodied stylus gauge as this will probably provide a simplified but accurate read out? By the way, I believe these Shure gauges (non-magnetic body) are hard to get nowadays? Any advice will be much appreciated.

Thanks
Ron :scratch:

[sq225917]

Credit card, double sided sticky tape, job done. The load cells in these small digital scales are not affected by a cantilevered load, they still give the same reading.


Here's a more professional execution.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6812725386_16c57ba0cb_c.jpg

[chelsea]

Managed to snap mine.:doh:

[YNWaN]

If you post it to me in some packaging I can use to return it I'll have a go at fixing it (replacing the platform).

[blake]

Hi folks and needle jockeys, need a bit of info come advice on stylus weight gauges please. For some time now I have been using a digital read out gauge (infrequently) but yesterday when I was trying to perfectly align my Koetsu Black and back up cartridge AT33EV the gauge gave me wildly flickering and inaccurate readings. I put this down to my gauge, a ' Canrong Phonograph arm Load professional meter' not being compatible with with these two MC cartridges or any MC. In view of this I would like to get hold of a Shure non-magnetic bodied stylus gauge as this will probably provide a simplified but accurate read out? By the way, I believe these Shure gauges (non-magnetic body) are hard to get nowadays? Any advice will be much appreciated.

Thanks
Ron :scratch:

The Canrongs are fine with moving coil cartridges-I've been using mine for more than 6 years with moving coils.

It's possible that your batteries are on the way out if you haven't already replaced them as the button batteries that come with the scale are often crap. Then again, you might not even need to replace the batteries. I'd simply suggest turning the scale off and turning it on again-you can calibrate it if you like, which would probably not be a bad idea if you have a 5 gram calibration weight. Think of it in the same way that you do when you reboot your computer when it is acting up.

Switching to the Shure would be a backwards move IMO.

[Oldpinkman]

The little ortofon balance seesaw doodah is inexpensive and I and a good friend of mine have long used it and found it adequate for our needs;)

[prestonchipfryer]

I wouldn't bother with the Shure as it's way past its sell by date, not very accurate at all. The Ortofon is not much better for being accurate.

This is far better.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-Stylus-Tracking-Gauge-Scales-Load-Meter-0-01g-Accuracy-Back-Lit-/300821502243?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item460a5bd923

No personal interest.

[Johnnie7]

heheh wonder if the scales are as good as the sellers set up skills...look at the cartridge screws on the arm in the picture lololol :D

[chelsea]

If you post it to me in some packaging I can use to return it I'll have a go at fixing it (replacing the platform).

Sadly someone trod on it at scalford whilst stuck to the platform of the scales.
They broke it and the scales so it got put in the bin there.:(

Thanks for the offer though.
Was a cool thing.

[chelsea]

heheh wonder if the scales are as good as the sellers set up skills...look at the cartridge screws on the arm in the picture lololol :D

Yes looks well out.

[YNWaN]

Sadly someone trod on it at scalford whilst stuck to the platform of the scales.
They broke it and the scales so it got put in the bin there.:(

Thanks for the offer though.
Was a cool thing.

:( - never mind.

[wiicrackpot]

Mark,

Have you ever thought making another batch?, put my name on one if you do,
i PM'd you after the last batch was finished to express interest, nothing came of it.

[prestonchipfryer]

heheh wonder if the scales are as good as the sellers set up skills...look at the cartridge screws on the arm in the picture lololol :D


I didn't notice that. My eyes must be wonky. :D

Perhaps not that particular gauge but something similar.

[YNWaN]

Mark,

Have you ever thought making another batch?, put my name on one if you do,
i PM'd you after the last batch was finished to express interest, nothing came of it.

Oh did you, sorry - thought I had sorted it all - can do you one if you like. The design has changed slightly, but much the same.

[DSJR]

Ron old fella, either get the little Ortofon balance, which is extremely accurate, or one of these, exactly accurate to 1/4g as once used by AR in the 70's -

http://www.esotericsound.com/access.htm

[wiicrackpot]

Oh did you, sorry - thought I had sorted it all - can do you one if you like. The design has changed slightly, but much the same.
Yes please, moving to PM. :cool:

[Oldpinkman]

Ron old fella, either get the little Ortofon balance, which is extremely accurate, or one of these, exactly accurate to 1/4g as once used by AR in the 70's -

http://www.esotericsound.com/access.htm

Blimey - what a treasure trove. Somebody much braver than me, buy a dust-bug and send it to Arthur labelled "dynamic wow calibration tool" :eek::lol:

[kcc123]

Try to get this which was and still is one of the best.

http://imageshack.us/a/img14/9645/s5hq.jpg

I have been using it for decades and it is very accurate and has served me well over the years without any problem at all.

[f1eng]

Cheap electronic scales are likely to be much less accurate than a balance IME. They may have an easy to read display to multiple decimal points but that doesn't mean they are accurate...
Has anybody tried calibrating theirs with lab weights?
There is not much to go out of calibration with the Shure and Ortofon balance type scales.
Just MHO

[Barry]

Cheap electronic scales are likely to be much less accurate than a balance IME. They may have an easy to read display to multiple decimal points but that doesn't mean they are accurate...
Has anybody tried calibrating theirs with lab weights?
There is not much to go out of calibration with the Shure and Ortofon balance type scales.
Just MHO

Good - someone who understands the difference betweeen resolution and accuracy. I once weighed the weights that come with the Transcriptors/Mitchell stylus balance using a laboratory chemical balance, whose weights were calibrated against NPL standards, and found the stylus balance weights to be within +2% of the correct weight. The exception being the 0.05g weight which weighed 0.0586g, that is +17.2% overweight.

These days I use a 'cheap' jewellers digital scale and find it sufficiently accurate for my purposes. I have just weighed "1.5g" on it (actual mass 1.5083g) and it displayed "1.5g", which it ought as it has 0.1g resolution.

[kcc123]

I have had both the Shure and Ortofon scales for years but have seldom used them. They are quite ok if not as accurate as my other three electronic/digital ones.

[blake]

Cheap electronic scales are likely to be much less accurate than a balance IME. They may have an easy to read display to multiple decimal points but that doesn't mean they are accurate...
Has anybody tried calibrating theirs with lab weights?
There is not much to go out of calibration with the Shure and Ortofon balance type scales.
Just MHO

Not in my experience. As Barry pointed out, resolution and accuracy are two different things. And yes, digital scales may need to be calibrated every once in a while. The Canrong scale that I've owned for about 6-7 years now has resolution to 3 decimal points or 1/1000th of a gram. Out of curiousity, I had my wife (a researcher) take it into the lab and put it up against a couple of pretty expensive (as in $1500-$2000) scales there.

With a number of weights between 1 and 5 grams (the upper limit for my scale), the Canrong's largest deviation from the lab scales was .007 grams.

That's not to say you "need" that kind of accuracy, but I do value accuracy down into the .025 gram range personally; others might feel much differently.

The digital scales, as they are highly resolving, are not without problem to achieve that kind of accuracy. Very slight changes in level, temperature and humidity, even the positioning of the stylus on the weigh platform, can result in different readings with these scales and that tends to throw people off a bit. I wouldn't confuse that with "inaccuracy" though.

When you can buy an appropriate (for measuring VTF) digital scale with 1/100th and 1000th gram resolution and very high accuracy for about $15 and $65 respectively, I don't see the point of messing around with balance beam scales, and there are plenty of stories from audiophiles online with respect to inaccuracy with those.

[f1eng]

I have had both the Shure and Ortofon scales for years but have seldom used them. They are quite ok if not as accurate as my other three electronic/digital ones.

How did you calibrate the 5 balances to determine which was the most accurate, and which was, please?

[f1eng]

Not in my experience. As Barry pointed out, resolution and accuracy are two different things. And yes, digital scales may need to be calibrated every once in a while. The Canrong scale that I've owned for about 6-7 years now has resolution to 3 decimal points or 1/1000th of a gram. Out of curiousity, I had my wife (a researcher) take it into the lab and put it up against a couple of pretty expensive (as in $1500-$2000) scales there.

With a number of weights between 1 and 5 grams (the upper limit for my scale), the Canrong's largest deviation from the lab scales was .007 grams.

That's not to say you "need" that kind of accuracy, but I do value accuracy down into the .025 gram range personally; others might feel much differently.

The digital scales, as they are highly resolving, are not without problem to achieve that kind of accuracy. Very slight changes in level, temperature and humidity, even the positioning of the stylus on the weigh platform, can result in different readings with these scales and that tends to throw people off a bit. I wouldn't confuse that with "inaccuracy" though.

When you can buy an appropriate (for measuring VTF) digital scale with 1/100th and 1000th gram resolution and very high accuracy for about $15 and $65 respectively, I don't see the point of messing around with balance beam scales, and there are plenty of stories from audiophiles online with respect to inaccuracy with those.


I have been setting up my turntable using a balance type scale for 45 years. I am an engineer used to using precision measuring equipment but still. I bought an electronic scale, took it to work to check it and whilst it had a pretty impressive display it was wrong. Inexpensive transducers are rarely consistent or accurate IME.

The one you have is obviously good though, since you have had it checked out OK. It would be interesting to know production sample variation at this price.

[StuN]

Coins are a good standby method to check your scales. The Royal Mint publishes the weight of every coin, so if you have a new/recent example it's an easy check.

Stuart

[f1eng]

Coins are a good standby method to check your scales. The Royal Mint publishes the weight of every coin, so if you have a new/recent example it's an easy check.

Stuart

Thanks a lot Stuart. Now I have retired I have no lab to use!
I used to do loads of measurements, often having to conceive and design my own transducers to do so. Retirement is a big change...