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View Full Version : Moving on,not just drift away,Adios!



kalozois100
18-05-2009, 03:26
:)It has come time for me to move on from this forum. To just do so silently would be cowardly for me...
However let me say that AOS has been extremely important to since I joined. I had an audio set up that was the same for years and needed urgent attention. The linn LP12, linn intek amp and linn helix speakers were the main set up for years and due to the pricey initial outlay I was reluctant to move on to other audio products. Having taken the plunge I has since changed speakers, amp, cables , bought a dac and albeit in a budget way improved the sound as far as my budget will allow.I have been extremely fortunate to have been able to modify the beresford dac with the help of stan and other members. Also, I have discovered the benefits of pc streaming , what a squeezebox does and lots of other bits of vital info.
However I have come to a point of a sense of not belonging, like having been living in a small towm and not quite have fit in. I think there is a very strong subgroup of members that are into the high end market of turntables and valve amps speakers and i have a sense that when someone new arrives that fits into that category there is alot of enthusiasm and praise but a polite welcome to the more modest owners of audio equipment. Perhaps AOS is starting to specialise leaving some members high and dry.
The Grand Wazoo was onto something when he opened his thread
http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2739
but it seems it never really got addresed.
Enough of the re cap...
I promised my self that if i ever got involved in the three words daily thread i would depart from the forum. I did so yesterday and leaving follows.
The thread is quite a powerful insight into the dynamics of the forum. In psychiatry free association is a form of powerful therapy but used with close supervision...... it can also have a destructive side.. Often here there is a direct link between what is discussed in threads and the 3 words
that are used. Indirect hits at members are a pattern too. Okay I know the response will be its all just a bit of fun or its totally a coincidence or bloody hell hes totally nuts and lost it but then so is cyber bullying untill some teenagers top themseleves - believe me it happens and I have worked with families of teenagers that have been victims. Let me state for the record that I am neither gay or Bisexual or ever have been or intend to be in in the future and just because I'm not into gay/bisexual bashing does not mean I'm one of them. Nor does being a nurse make me one either! Nor having a greek heritage either! Nor being concerned that certain members on the forum have been missing for a while! Nor having shown an interest to met up with members here in person!
Another important place for me in the forum was being able to discuss and participate in English, something I miss Since moving to and working in a different country, and being able to join this up with a hobby I really love.
I have a great respect for and shall miss members in particular labarum, dalek, grandwazoo( what a clever man and kind you are I"M sure you rate highly on IQ(intelligence quotient) and EQ(emotional Quotients), twelvebears, Gasjam, Covenant, and Stan the man. Beechwoods. leo
Certain other members have formed a false impression of me and can't do any more about that but have enough self respect to depart from a hostile environment. Being in disagreement about some hifi stuff and it getting heated is one thing but back stabbing personal attacks in the form of pseudo freudian free association is a way of encouraging someone to drop dowm to that level or respectfully depart . I am neither bitter angry or dissolusioned that I acknowleged the hifi system that I had was not performing and has led me to vast improvements in sound compared to how it was but no where near the improvement that more expensive set ups have here.
I have always had a problem with marco, seems we got off on the wrong footing and never quite made that right and I'm not sure who is to blame for that if it is I then I appologise in heinsight. It once happened to a college with his boss. It only got resolved when he left as the boss always had the upper hand.
I do hope you can accept the comments as constructive criticism .
I think it is also a cultural communication problem too and perhaps why it is more of a uk orientated membership. It seems that fellow usa members dont last that long either.
Anyway its been great learning experience, I feel a little guilty having got more than i have offered on this forum . I 'll have more time for the family as i don't intend to join another forum at this stage. I may visit as an observer if i am not banned after the above comments which I am expecting but shall not post again here. i will miss the forum but must move on......
I hope that some of you at least will think kindly of me.....
best of luck with the forum
Live long and prosper
Adios
Kalozois:)

The Grand Wazoo
18-05-2009, 07:20
Kalozois,

I'm sorry to hear that you have had enough of this forum and surprised that something has been written that makes you feel as though you cannot stay.
I haven't read any of the comments you seem to be referring to, but I'm sure they weren't meant in malice. The point of the Three Words Daily Thread is to keep the 'ball' in the air & words spoken in haste are often regretted later. Actually, I gave up even looking at it long ago.

If you've been offended then I'm sure this can be put right.

As far as the hi-fi content of the forum, some areas are a little orientated towards certain products, which I also have little interest in, but I find that there are plenty of other postings that hold my interest & try to find interesting subjects to initiate new discussion where appropriate. I'm sure your frustration in this direction will be the subject of a much debate!

I would urge you to stay. Because of the nature of a forum, you actually have it within your power to help change things - and that applies to this one so much more than for many others.

I shall be sorry if your decision to go remains.

alb
18-05-2009, 08:18
Kalozois.

I think many will identify with something that you have written. The bigger forums such as this, will sometimes appear to be a bit daunting. So will the smallest ones, whose members may regard themselves as a nice little club.

I see joining a forum as being like the first time you enter a large room full of strangers.
Before you walk in, you know there's a good chance that someone in there will speak to you. But you have to find that person.

You also know, that you will have something in common with several people in there. But there will also be some people who operate on a very different level, either intellectually or financially.

You might expect to find some people who think and act in a manner that you are accustomed to. You should also expect to come across people who are difficult to get along with.
You wouldn't expect to get on well with everyone.
So it is with any large crowd.

Some members stay largely inactive. Some, like me, pop in once or twice a day to see whats going on. Others, who may have more time, will become quite involved and become regular contributors.
I think the secret is .......... to use the forum in a way that suits your lifestyle.
Don't see any reason to leave though, other than being electronically banned.:)

DSJR
18-05-2009, 09:01
Please don't feel daunted because some of us have quite advanced systems and mainly of a "valve and vinyl" bent.. My system is ancient now and none of the items are worth more than a couple of hundred each (the CD player *may* get slightly more, but it's twenty one years old now).

I never have "just" three words daily (as regulars can tell :D) so never go there. I don't always agree with Marco's strong views either, but try to retain an open mind (difficult at my age and "experience" - re. the M3D thread, but I'm looking forward to being proved wrong)..

Your systems look very interesting and have just as much merit in their ways than a mega-thousand quid turntable/valve amp setup. The A400 wasn't good in a budget setup, but give it a great source and more capable speakers and it could really shine I found. I've also heard the bad and the good about the Audiolab 8000A for example and much of the negatives on this amp were the systems available in the late eighties and early nineties IMO - same goes for the M3D, it being totally unsuitable for low mass arms and turntables prone to slowing under load. By the time arms got more rigid again, it was long gone and never had the further development as the M75-EJ replaced it..

Perhaps I've gone off on anothet tangent again, but just lurk for a while and post if something interests you...

Mike
18-05-2009, 09:02
Hi Kalozois,

The TWD thread is just drivel really, I wouldn't take it seriously at all to be honest.

On the other hand, I think I understand what you are saying... I'll have to have a more serious think about that one... :scratch:

Cheers...

Spectral Morn
18-05-2009, 09:04
Hi Kalozois

I am deeply saddened at your decision to leave the forum. Your contributions mostly in the Digital impression will be greatly missed and your presence in other sections of the forum too. I have had a brief look at your posts and 3 words daily and I am a little confused as to your reasons for leaving. The humour, and it is only that (I am sure) is not really mine either but it doesn't offend me...but in fairness I don't really look at it very often. If it has offended you and that appears to be the case then a PM to anyone on the admin/mod team could have addressed the issue. I would like to think that all of us are approachable, friendly, accountable and I would be disappointed if some AOS members felt that wasn't the case. If there is a problem ( no matter what) please contact us.....and we will try to help/sort it out.

The content of the forum reflects that old saying about not being able to please all the people all of the time. There are a number of areas I don't post in but would read...mainly the Digital impression which is mostly PC based. This is not an area I am interested in and as I have no experience of such I can't take part in or contribute anything to those debates. If it was a bit broader then I might be able to take part, but in fairness I don't feel short changed that I don't. Equally there are other areas which are product centric (Technics/Goldring Lenco/DD TT's and various vintage cartridges), again I don't have experience of these either but I can and do chip in when I can and I find the information therein challenging and when funds allow I may well dip my toe in to see what all the excitement is about.

The members (and this does include admin/mods, who are after all members as well) steer the topics and the products discussed here...if there is interest a topic will go on to multiple pages but if not it will fade away....that goes for threads started by admin and members alike. I don't think there is a bias against start up set ups or members who use such....if anything there is a lack of members with high end kit(such as myself..fair enough) and the focus is on vintage and DIY, but thats fine for the most part and very interesting. If you put a group together its nearly always the case that they will form into areas of mutual interest and this on the whole is the reason for the shape of AOS and what gets discussed here. If there is something you want to discuss start a thread and see where it goes.

I must state for the record that IMHO AOS is one of, if not the most friendly forums I have been a member of...I have been treated with respect and any and all disagreements (not many)have been sorted out/and or an agreement to disagree reached without further issues....all in the past now. I am not just saying that because I am on the mod team here....I genuinely believe that to be the case.

Thank you for your respect and that you value my contributions (that is very gratifying and humbling), I too respect you and your contributions and it would be my firm/friendly request that you return so we can discuss the issues you raise. Bottom line I don't want you to leave....so please don't :)

PS Having gone back a few more pages in 3 words daily than I did earlier I can now see where you are coming from. I can now see how offence might be caused.


Regards Neil

Barry
18-05-2009, 10:01
Hi Kalozis,

Like the previous postees, I am saddened to think that you feel there is no longer a place for you in AOS.

Although I have only been a member for less than 6 months, and therefore probably not really qualified to comment, I will say that AOS is one of the most friendly forums that I know. I am a member of a couple of other fora and do look at several more, but none to my mind match the overal quality, friendliness, helpfulness, education, variety and shear enjoyment of AOS.

There are of course several threads that either do not interest me, or are on subjects to which I do not feel I can make a contribution. In the former case I simply don't follow them, and in the latter case, I just read, learn and am entertained.

Certainly there are some AOS members who hold strong and forthright views, and some have a distinctive style of humor, but I can't imagine that in expressing their views there was ever any intention to offend.

You might feel that AOS is 'UK-centric', and in comparison to many of other fora that I have looked at, you may well be right. The solution is to attract as many world-wide members as possible. I, for one, am always interested in the equipment and tastes in music that other members have, wherever they are, even if some pieces of gear are unknown to me here in the UK.

So, please don't leave, hang around - the AOS forum is what members make it.

Regards

Barry

John
18-05-2009, 10:49
I am sorry to read you are leaving
I never use 3 words daily myself so cannot really comment but think its natural for people to relate to others
I like to think we create a friendly vibe yes there are those who challenge and have strong views but it usually done with good humour and not made personal. I think to get the best out of forums its best to dip in and out. So I mostly stick to the music section but will use comment in other sections if i think I have something of value to say.
For me its always about the music not the gear I do not have a extreme high end system myself but have a system that sounds pretty good and allows me to enjoy the music.
I wish you all the best in whatever you decide to do

Covenant
18-05-2009, 18:24
Can I add my voice to the people who dont want you to leave. I dont read the three words daily thing so I cant comment on it. I am taken aback by you thinking that there is a group of 'valve heads' with expensive equipment who dominate the forum. My equipment is digital and is not high value. I have never felt left out in any discussion.
Talk to the mods by PM and see if this can be sorted.

Marco
18-05-2009, 20:00
Hi Kalo,

This is all very bizarre... I too am disappointed that you've decided no longer to participate, as I valued your contributions and often found them thought-provoking and interesting, but I'm struggling to understand what your reasons are for going. I'd like to address your points below on an individual basis to try to understand better where you're coming from, so your response to this would be appreciated :)


However I have come to a point of a sense of not belonging, like having been living in a small towm and not quite have fit in.


I understand that, but unfortunately it's just the nature of forums; it also depends how you use them. You'll only "fit in" if you share a common interest with a percentage of the membership, and perhaps you felt that wasn't the case, but whenever I've examined your contributions you've always seemed to have a good rapport with people, particularly in the 'Digital Impression', so I'm not quite sure how you felt you could have fitted in any better.

On a forum or in a community you can't realistically expect to form strong bonds or be popular with everyone - you just interact with those whom you feel share similar interests and whom you can relate to on the same 'level', and enjoy it on that basis. I get the feeling that you've taken the huff because you felt that people weren't showing enough interest in your system or giving your particular interests enough attention. There is a little insecurity in evidence. If I'm wrong, then please tell me how you see things!


I think there is a very strong subgroup of members that are into the high end market of turntables and valve amps speakers and i have a sense that when someone new arrives that fits into that category there is alot of enthusiasm and praise but a polite welcome to the more modest owners of audio equipment.


I'm afraid that this statement only serves to confirm my observation above. People will naturally only enthuse about what they're interested in - whether that's computer audio or valve amps (regardless of cost) depends on the individuals concerned. You seem to be taking it all rather too personally.


The Grand Wazoo was onto something when he opened his thread
http://www.theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2739
but it seems it never really got addresed.


Eh?? I addressed Chris's questions there in great detail. Have another look and you'll see (post #5)!


I promised my self that if i ever got involved in the three words daily thread i would depart from the forum. I did so yesterday and leaving follows.


Sorry, I don't understand the relevance of that statement or what you're inferring :confused:


The thread is quite a powerful insight into the dynamics of the forum.


Erm, to put it bluntly, no it isn't - far from it! 'Three Words Daily' is nothing but 'lads banter down the pub': light-hearted drivel which should in no way ever be taken seriously. Perhaps this is where the problem lies? You don't appreciate the humour? That's absolutely fine - many people don't. What you do then is ignore it, that's all. I'm afraid you're looking at everything far too deeply and reading into things which simply don't exist.


Often here there is a direct link between what is discussed in threads and the 3 words
that are used.


Can't say I've ever noticed that. Certainly, I can assure you that my contributions on 'TWD' have got bugger all to do with what's being written on the main area of the forum - it's whatever daft nonsense comes into my head in the spur of the moment!


Indirect hits at members are a pattern too. Okay I know the response will be its all just a bit of fun or its totally a coincidence or bloody hell hes totally nuts and lost it but then so is cyber bullying untill some teenagers top themseleves - believe me it happens and I have worked with families of teenagers that have been victims.


Again, I'm sorry, but I've got no idea what you mean :scratch:


Let me state for the record that I am neither gay or Bisexual or ever have been or intend to be in in the future and just because I'm not into gay/bisexual bashing does not mean I'm one of them.


If you're referring to some of the 'gay' or 'bisexual' references in TWD, and it offends you, then you have point. These can easily be removed at your request, and in fact will be anyway. Sometimes 'lads banter' can get OTT, especially when you're chatting with like-minded people who share the same warped sense of humour. But insensitivity is all we're guilty of, certainly nothing more odious or deep-rooted than that such as you're suggesting.


Another important place for me in the forum was being able to discuss and participate in English, something I miss Since moving to and working in a different country, and being able to join this up with a hobby I really love.


Well why, stop? Nothing has changed really. It's obvious people here like you, as do I and the rest of the people in charge :) You really do take things a little too seriously, my friend :smoking:


I have a great respect for and shall miss members in particular labarum, dalek, grandwazoo( what a clever man and kind you are I"M sure you rate highly on IQ(intelligence quotient) and EQ(emotional Quotients), twelvebears, Gasjam, Covenant, and Stan the man. Beechwoods. leo


Well, that's a nice little 'club' there - why not stay and exchange information/chat with those guys and then take it from there? Like I said before, you can't be popular with everyone - it just isn't like that on forums or in real life.


Certain other members have formed a false impression of me and can't do any more about that but have enough self respect to depart from a hostile environment.


Again, I've got no idea what you mean by a "hostile environment". Has something happened which I don't know about? We do not allow any hostility to exist here on AOS.


Being in disagreement about some hifi stuff and it getting heated is one thing but back stabbing personal attacks in the form of pseudo freudian free association is a way of encouraging someone to drop dowm to that level or respectfully depart .


Sorry, I really haven't a clue what you're talking about :confused:


I have always had a problem with marco, seems we got off on the wrong footing and never quite made that right and I'm not sure who is to blame for that if it is I then I appologise in heinsight.


Now that really confuses me! I'm not aware of any "problem" whatsoever, or of any issues between us. As far as I'm concerned, we've always got on well and indeed I've helped you and gave you advice on many occasions, so this has got me completely and utterly baffled... :scratch: :confused:

If you answer nothing else here, Kalo, please explain what you mean by this.


I may visit as an observer if i am not banned after the above comments which I am expecting but shall not post again here. i will miss the forum but must move on......
I hope that some of you at least will think kindly of me.....
best of luck with the forum
Live long and prosper
Adios
Kalozois


Well first of all you've got no chance of being banned. We don't ban people here for being honest. You feel how you feel regardless if we might think it's unjustified, so I appreciate your frankness.

Look, let's move forward from this. You're very welcome to post here and your contributions are valued, so let's put all this behind us and start afresh. If you tell me how you'd like things to be on AOS I'll do my best to make it happen :)

Marco.

Sand Dancin Donkey Walker
18-05-2009, 20:05
Hi Kalozis

Just to add my thoughts.

It is a shame you feel you need to leave the forum. Why not if you need to, just take a short break and have some quality time with your music. After a period of relaxing and enjoying your, let’s be honest here, lovely country and surroundings drop by the forum again and contribute a bit and see how you feel then.

Sometimes a break can be good for you, I go through a few phases of being a bit quite, but then get back into it again.

I'm getting on a bit now and one thing I have learnt is not to be intimidated by others, I too have friends that have far superior systems to mine but mine is for me, and me only. We all start from more humble origins, I have just been in a fortunate position to indulge myself over the years.

Whatever the outcome, please do stay around. But most importantly enjoy life and have fun.

Take Care,

Andy - SDDW

Puffin
18-05-2009, 20:40
kalozois. Stick around.

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 11:59
Thanks to all for the kind words and encouragement to stay on.
I am a bit disturbed that no one can see as i do the comments in the three words as offensive. They were because I thought that Marco was referring to me personally and I cant make reference to the words because some seem to have been deleted. your quite welcome to make your comments about sexual orientation race colour politics etc its not for me to control the thread. it seemed personal though. Only you know Marco if it was random banter or not.
If I have got the wrong end of the stick or put 2 and 2 together and got 5 then it means I too don't belong here that I mis understand what is written and can't make out what is real and fantasy and that would make it dangerous and provided an unsafe environment for others to use. There is enough paranoia in the world without you lot having it on your forum too!!
If it is a matter of humour then I didn't get it because i thought it was directed at me personally, at my expense and not random comments. Perhaps If I knew marco personally it would be different. I experienced it as a clever indirect attack. Some times people think they can get away with it on the net.
In my culture if some one offends your sexuality it is a most serious act if you don't know that person directly. It often happens though between close friends as Marco says as light banter down the pub but only with folks you really know well. I have worked with many gay persons patients and colleges and they can be interesting, funny friendly but also difficult like the rest oF us. I even wished them a happy valentines on the forum this year!! but if I get the impression that someone is gonna call me one then I can't stand for that. I can't .
In uk where i lived before I have been unfortunate to have witnessed severe violence due to someone calling someone unknown a poof resulting in one of the two having a glass in face resulting in multiple stitches. Also women are less tolerent and once when a women was called a slag by another woman that woman ended up in hospital . The Brits are more tolerent when someone insults(consequences can be devastating,court prison fines loss of employment) them but when mixed with alcohol there is zero tolerence like the two examples above. I have see enough of it in holiday resorts here were i have worked in the past. We mediterraneans unfortuately ignite instantaneously on such matters. It is a question of honour amongst gentlemen........ The question here is did i get it wrong and why did i get it wrong? Something for me to ponder on .......
I once worked in psychiatric centre and even face to face and having the advantage of the verbal medium and not the limitations and dangers of written medium the amount of misunderstandings were high not because they were ill but because of the nature of human interaction.
Perhaps i have been too active on the forum and enjoyed reading all the sections and it became as important as the music that i listened too. i often got in and the first thing i did was hook onto aos eagerly to see whats new (much to the fustration of the misses!!). Perhaps got too involved and hence the reaction i displayed was OTT instead of just drifting away . You can get carried away on the net and disclose info about yourself. i think its a lesson learned in that department for me. If the forum is that large and you can't have it well with everyone then its a shame cause it reflects how society operates too. I came to care and value not only what members said about equipment but how they perceived me as a member too. Others can be the judge of that.
Any way the whole thing has upset me especially if i have wrongly accussed Marco and perhaps a good suggetion is for me to have a break from the forum for a while and dip in and out as someone else suggested as an observer. As a result I am deleting the start of this thread a i deeply regret now writing it . just realised i can't there is no option to edit. However the the material in question has been deleted.

Marco
19-05-2009, 12:11
Hi Kalozois,

Thanks for popping back to expand on your comments - much appreciated!

Let's get one thing ABUNDANTLY clear....................

The 'gay' remarks which were posted in the TWD thread were definitely NOT aimed at you. I (on behalf of all who posted those comments on TWD) apologise to anyone else who may have been similarly offended but who've remained silent.

How you interpreted them as being directed at you is anyone's guess, so rather than attempt to analyse where any 'blame' lies in your thought processes, we'll simply put it down to a misunderstanding :)

The comments have been deleted out of courtesy because you (understandably) considered them as offensive, whether they were directed at you or not.

It's worth pointing out again that the the TWD thread is not for those with 'delicate sensibilities' who value political correctness and/or don't share the 'robust' sense of humour often expressed there, so be warned!

Anyway, Kalozois, there are no hard feelings on my part over this, and I hope that I can say the same for you. These things happen, so don't worry about it, my friend :smoking:

Have a break away, as you say, and come back when you are ready. In the meantime, take care and enjoy the music! :cool:

Marco.

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 12:20
Convinient word misunderstanding. Only problem is the danger of

"miss understanding " what has really happened. Anyway the subject is now deceased as far as i'm concerned.

I respectfully wish you back the same good will.

Marco
19-05-2009, 12:33
Nice one; that's good. The written word is often a flawed method of communication, especially when there are only three of them! ;)

See you again on your return :)

Marco.

Steve Toy
19-05-2009, 13:36
So lets get this right

Kalozois,

You came to AOS, exchanged with a few folks, had some very positive interactions, received some incredibly good advice on which you were able to act that has resulted in you enjoying your recorded music more.

I call that a result - with more to come if you stick around.

Then you allowed yourself to get bogged down in some silly internet misunderstanding of a free-association thread where the only real meaning generated is that infered by the reader, i.e. you.

I believe there is more to come out of this. Is there something you are not telling us?

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 15:25
So lets get this right

Kalozois,

You came to AOS, exchanged with a few folks, had some very positive interactions, received some incredibly good advice on which you were able to act that has resulted in you enjoying your recorded music more.

I call that a result - with more to come if you stick around.

Then you allowed yourself to get bogged down in some silly internet misunderstanding of a free-association thread where the only real meaning generated is that infered by the reader, i.e. you.

I believe there is more to come out of this. Is there something you are not telling us?

I don't understand what you wish to know more. I had the impression that marco was using that thread to indirectly have a go at me. he says otherwise so i have to accept that but then i could have a point and that he is not coming clean . Its a possibility. however it seemed to have come to a halt until you stepped in.
I'm in a disadvantage here cause not many see those comments as possibly being directed as someone and that i am in danger of being linched by those coming to marcos rescue.
Perhaps its easier for all round if we conclude that i am nuts, seeing into things that are not really there and allowed to drift away as i should have done in the first place.
The only thing is that i have not said is feeling pressured to upgrade to valve equipment that somehow you have not quite "arrived there" in terms of audio equipment and sound. this is not practicle financially. perhaps remaining on the forum gives rise to a toturous and envious feeling for those that can. Perhaps Marco ultimately represents someone that can and has and celebrates his achievement. Good for him and so he should. its a bit like the boy wearing 5 pound plimsoles standing next to the boy who has the 120 nikeys. and there seems to be alot of others wearing the nikeys while i look down at my plimsoles. i am embarrased to say i have only just realised this jealous side of me. Glad i have though as jealousy is a destructive side if left to linger around in the unconscious. Even members that have gone all digital are using top valve and speakers and only the source is different. in the ethos it says about willy wobbling and boasting about ones system. does this happen with members that have high end stuff in an indirect subtle way leaving the rest of us with a sense of lacking? again reading too much into things ?? twisted thought processes again - i guess so?? sorry but you invited me to say what i am not saying. when i first joined up i did just that in a private post to marco, willy wobbling. he was quite happy to blast away at the linn stuff i had . later on I had the audacity to ask for help in upgrades from him. but then i asked for suggestions and he didn't have any. I have since realised it was a defence to what was to come i.e. the change of components. But being fustrated and limited to doing that on a budget. yeah i'd love a croft , i'd love some speakers you lot would recommend that i ve never heard of and a top cd transport, to change the unperforming belter to direct drive.
Cant help but think of new members that join up and start similarly" this is my system its no way near as good as the fantastic equipment on here"
i think Davesue started like that and then drifted away. others too but cant recall them, and finally me included. Perhaps this is your answer why some drift away - an inability to move forward with audio set ups and so move out. On top of what i have said you think that a member that represents all i have just said above, in that they are were you would like to go is taking the piss out of you in an indirect way it can be infuriating. Even imagined or not. ( It can also cause dissruptions and conflict in ones house in the area of upgrades but that is another topic all together. ) I guess i have tapped into the dark side of audiophilia that no one wishes to touch upon. Like i have been infected with the pursuit of improvement in audio and losing the essence of enjoying music.audioholic without the high end stuff. Bit like the pleasures of alcohol until you get back the blood work and discover you have high enzymes and the old liver is suffering as a result. Perhaps thats the real motive to have a break from here. to detox. to get back to basics albeit a budget set up. To start enjoying music again without that niggling in the back of my mind what next move will bring improvements to the music i'm hearing. The forum is a bit like a taxi in that it has helped in the journey but i can only afford for the driver to take me half way! And that my friends is very bloody fustrating.:steam:
There you have it. Confession time. Hope you value it as i am using time that i should be studying for a degree.

DaveK
19-05-2009, 16:01
To kalozois100,
Your statement "i think Davesue started like that and then drifted away." is most certainly not true - the only place that I drifted away to was Zakynthos for a 10 day holiday - beautiful island !! (I have also holidayed several times in both North and south Cyprus - another beautiful island - and loved both parts equally).
At the risk of losing my reputation, on this forum at least, for being a nice polite, well mannered guy, I am going to say it how I see it, just as you have done, in the hope that you will accord to me the same sentiments in doing so as you have. I suspect that other members MAY be thinking it but I am the only one prepared (rude enough) to put it into words.
The only thing that explains your comments to me is your paranoia, (:sorry:) probably brought on by the stress of your studies - having been in exactly the same situation myself many years ago I can genuinely appreciate your position.
This forum is the most friendly, kind, helpful, non-maligning 'place' that it has been my very great pleasure to be part of for the last few weeks. Any insult or slurs that you may have perceived are only in your mind and have no relation to reality, in my honest opinion :sorry:.
Feel free to come back to me with both barrels if you think I am wrong - I sincerely hope that I am. Meanwhile my suggestion is for you to stay away from the forum until your studies are well behind you and then come back - I am sure the welcome will be even warmer than it was originally - hang in there !!
Kind Regards,:)

Mike
19-05-2009, 16:13
I experienced it as a clever indirect attack.

To be honest, I don't think Marco is that clever! :lolsign:

Sorry, couldn't resist. ;)

As for feeling that your system is somehow 'too low end' (for want of a better expression) you really shouldn't worry!

Take my own setup for instance, it cost a hell of a lot less than some single components that are being used by others around here, it doesn't matter one jot as long as I enjoy what it does! Surely the same is true of you and your system? :)

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 16:23
........I think i have said too much and I no longer belong here..........:(


Goodbye to you all.....

Mike
19-05-2009, 16:26
<sigh..> Sorry to hear that Kal, it's a shame. :(

Steve Toy
19-05-2009, 16:39
Kalazois, you are not the first to have misunderstood what the Art of Sound Forum is supposed to be about and I'm sure you won't be the last. In the meantime I'd like to take the opportunity to clear up a few misconceptions, if you don't mind.

Firstly, Marco, like the rest of the Admin team plays dual roles - one of administrator on the forum and also one of fellow contributor. These two roles are not played out simultaneously. When in the role of fellow contributor opinions expressed are entirely his own and do not reflect those of AOS unless this is specifically stated to that effect. He is certainly not spouting any editorial line.

His opinions carry equal weight to those of all other contributors and can be challenged thus without fear of sanction provided the challenge comes without resort to being abusive or personal.



I'm in a disadvantage here cause not many see those comments as possibly being directed as someone and that i am in danger of being linched by those coming to marcos rescue.



I think Marco is more than capable of looking after himself in robust debates but when a personsal issue between an admin member and a fellow contributor emerges then intervention by a third party becomes necessary. I am certainly not here to lynch you for you've actually done nothing to warrant being censored or chastised in any way.



The only thing is that i have not said is feeling pressured to upgrade to valve equipment that somehow you have not quite "arrived there" in terms of audio equipment and sound. this is not practicle financially. perhaps remaining on the forum gives rise to a toturous and envious feeling for those that can. Perhaps Marco ultimately represents someone that can and has and celebrates his achievement. Good for him and so he should. its a bit like the boy wearing 5 pound plimsoles standing next to the boy who has the 120 nikeys. and there seems to be alot of others wearing the nikeys while i look down at my plimsoles. i am embarrased to say i have only just realised this jealous side of me. Glad i have though as jealousy is a destructive side if left to linger around in the unconscious. Even members that have gone all digital are using top valve and speakers and only the source is different. in the ethos it says about willy wobbling and boasting about ones system.


It doesn't matter who you are or what you've got, there will always be someone with a better/more expensive system. That's life I'm afraid and it applies to all our material possessions including cars, clothes, watches etc. This forum certainly isn't about willy-waving, it is about getting maximum sound-per-pound value from your system and maximising enjoyment of your recorded music collection. If you want willy-waving, you need not look very far from home; I suggest you check out the Audiophile Club of Athens...

In the grand scheme of things Marco's system is quite modest but for sure it punches well above its weight. He's also been in this game for a very long time, and where hi-fi is concerned, experience and knowledge is power far more than hard cash. By the same token, your Linn equipment isn't exactly bargain basement either! Systems discussed on this forum have ranged from as little as £100 all-in to tens of thousands.

Also, it isn't all about the boxes, (fancy) casework and pricetags, it is about setup, implementation and careful selection of ancilliaries; it is about making the best of what you've got, often at zero cost. This is what we're about here and I hope you've gained something through being here in this respect.

As for valves, they are a relatively recent discovery for both myself and Marco. Another recent discovery is that they don't necessarily have to cost a fortune... Either way, whilst valves are a strong feature of AOS we are not a valve-only site. There are solid state systems at various price points that sound wonderful - especially when they've been partnered and set up carefully.

So please don't let the green-eyed monster get in the way of improving your music enjoyment, for that is just plain silly.

I hope we have got (nearer) to the bottom of what is really bugging you and I hope also this site can be of further assistance to you in the future.

All the best,

Steve Toy (Administrator)

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 16:49
I would like very much to delete the start of this thread. consider it a leaving present to me.
It seems i have stirred up some bad feelings that were not intended.
Seems i am a trouble maker. Marco was able to delete in the three words daily section which is what started all this so it would be unfair IMO not to grant me this request.
I would be very grateful if i can delete the start of the thread so i can depart in peace.
Thank you

Steve Toy
19-05-2009, 16:55
Kalazois,

You are not a trouble maker and I'm actually grateful to you that you've raised some issues that needed to be addressed. The thread will not be deleted as it serves a purpose. You've done absolutely nothing wrong and I really would prefer you to stay but that is your choice.

Steve Toy
19-05-2009, 16:58
Marco was able to delete in the three words daily section which is what started all this so it would be unfair IMO not to grant me this request.

This was done for your benefit not to cover up any wrong-doing.

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 17:00
Kalazois,

You are not a trouble maker and I'm actually grateful to you that you've raised some issues that needed to be addressed. The thread will not be deleted as it serves a purpose. You've done absolutely nothing wrong and I really would prefer you to stay but that is your choice.

Again , Please grant me access to the starting thread.
If you believe it has served a purpose then keep for yourself. I no longer wish for it to be on public display. should you insist on denying access then let it be a warning to others that what you write stays for good when opening a thread.
thank you

Marco
19-05-2009, 17:00
Hi Kalozois,

I'm afraid that's not possible because when the people who've been reading the thread return again to see 'the latest', and notice the thread has gone, it will look like we (Admin), or even myself personally, are trying to hide something... Please look at it that way.

So, sorry - no can do. You've raised some important issues which required to be addressed, and thus that's what has happened.

Like Mike, I'm sorry that you feel the way you do, but it's too late to brush this under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen.

I can close the thread if you want, but unfortunately I can't delete it.

Marco.

Steve Toy
19-05-2009, 17:06
I'd rather we left it open -for a while at least.

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 17:09
Hi Kalozois,

I'm afraid that's not possible as when the people who've been reading the thread return again to see 'the latest' and notice it's gone, it will look like we (Admin), or even myself personally, is trying to hide something... Please look at it that way.

So, sorry - no can do. You've raised some important issues which require to be addressed, and thus that's what has happened.

Like Mike, I'm sorry that you feel the way you do, but it's too late to brush this under the carpet and pretend it didn't happen.

I can close the thread if you want, but unfortunately I can't delete it.

Marco.

i will write in the start of the thread that it is I that deleted the contents.
You will not have any problems others thinking that you are trying to hide something .Its for your benefit too Marco in the same way it was for my benefit that material was deleted in the three words thread. That i did not request! its something that you did Marco
thankyou

Steve Toy
19-05-2009, 17:12
The mods have convened and we've decided it is to stay. If you delete the first post of a thread the whole lot goes. We've spent too much time on this just to erase it and it has served a purpose.

There is no need to feel embarrassed.

Marco
19-05-2009, 17:16
i will write in the start of the thread that it is I that deleted the contents.


LOL! Kalo, who's going to see your message when the thread is deleted??


Its for your benefit too Marco in the same way it was for my benefit that material was deleted in the three words thread.


It was not for my benefit in the slightest. I deleted some of the content in TWD out of courtesy of the fact that you were obviously offended by it - no other reason.

I'm sorry that (for you) I appear to have done the wrong thing.

Now I'm sorry, Kalozois, but the thread will remain either as it is for people to respond further, or closed. It's your choice. There is no other option.

Marco.

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 17:18
I'd rather we left it open -for a while at least.

What possible reason would there be in doing so. I have already taken responsibility for writing destructively in this forum.
Its like someone writting graffiti on a wall and then not allowing him to wash it off. Like parading the guilty party and saying hes the one that did it.
Once again i request that the thread i have started be allowed to be deleted.
if its an apology your waiting marco then I appologise in public to you.
i am considering from now on you not allowing me to delete the starting thread as being cruel
Thank you

The Grand Wazoo
19-05-2009, 17:25
Kal,
You're problem with being made to feel inferior because of gear you own is completely misplaced.

I spend as more time listening to music on 2 old receivers (one of which cost me less than £1) than I do on my big system - I get as much musical satisfaction from those as I do from the expensive stuff. No-one here expects you to own anything, neither do they think any less of you for not owning a whole host of ultra high-end hi-fi (or valves for that matter).

You really should try to see things differently.

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 17:27
The mods have convened and we've decided it is to stay. If you delete the first post of a thread the whole lot goes. We've spent too much time on this just to erase it and it has served a purpose.

There is no need to feel embarrassed.

It has served a purpose at my cost!!
There is no point as the contents in the three words daily that are the origins no longer exist.
there can be no cross referencing.
I request i have access to the opening thread to delete the contents not the thread itself. it will be replaced by my saying that it is i that deleted the contents of the opening thread absolving you admin of any editing.
Thank you

Marco
19-05-2009, 17:40
I request i have access to the opening thread to delete the contents not the thread itself. it will be replaced by my saying that it is i that deleted the contents of the opening thread absolving you admin of any editing.


Kalo, but if we did that the rest of the thread following your opening post wouldn't make any sense (even if it were possible, software-wise)!

Tell you what we'll do as a compromise...

You write here what you'd like to appear in the opening post of this thread and I'll edit it in for you just as you've written it with an explanation attached, but the rest of that post (and the remainder of the thread thereafter) will remain in its entirety.

Marco.

kalozois100
19-05-2009, 18:09
seems we are equal but some are more equal than others like in Animal farm.
Perhaps this is a conflict for basic members as opposed to admin staff.
perhaps there is an issue of dual roles. when concerning dispuites. i can't imagine my line manager working like i do and then managing me aswell.
However if the grand wazoo see this as i he does then i'm totally on my own with this. i trust his judgement so as a representative of basic members if he suggests i am at fault in the way i interpret or understand threads then so be it. I have also appreciated the resident psychiatrist professional davesues's diagnosis on the matter!
so be it.
close the thread if you are unwilling to allow me access to the starting thread.
thankyou

alb
19-05-2009, 18:24
Kalo


I have also appreciated the resident psychiatrist professional davesues's diagnosis on the matter!

Your sense of humour is good.
It should see you safely through this time of misunderstanding.
You should stay.

For what is it worth .....your gear is more exotic than anything i ever bought.:)

Marco
19-05-2009, 19:00
close the thread if you are unwilling to allow me access to the starting thread.


Kalo, it's not a matter of me being "unwilling to allow you access" to the start of the thread - I have to consider the thoughts of the other members (and lurkers), too!

And moreover, as I'm sure you'll appreciate, I can't just give you temporary moderators rights to allow you to edit your opening post, as that would set a precedent which other members could insist on when they've written something which they later regret - because that is what it would take, given that the timescale for your right to edit the post has expired.

No, I think this has gone on long enough now, so I'm closing the thread. There's no need to apologise either for what's happened, as you've done nothing 'wrong'.

I wish you all the best for the future and should you decide to return you will be made most welcome, and this unfortunate episode completely forgotten about.

Adios :)

Marco.