Naim Supernait 2 - any experiences good or bad?

[losenotaminute]

I'm very tempted buy the Supernait 2 to replace my early 90s Naim pre and power combo. There have only been a few reviews so far, but everything I've read has been very complimentary. Having said that, I'm not sure I have much faith in reviews anyway as almost all new equipment is given 4 or 5 stars....

Discussions about the Supernait 2 on the Naim forum are also very favourable, but that is to be expected.

I will be calling into the dealership on Saturday to have a listen. My dealer is probably going to push me towards the Primare or Simaudio Moon equivalent integrated amps but I suspect this is more to do with them having more experience with the alternatives compared to the Supernait 2. At £2,750 it seems to be relatively keenly priced, especially considering the 5 year warranty and good residual values that come with new Naim kit. My current amps have served me well and sound very good to my ears, but I have received a few comments both on and off-line which imply I could do better. My budget is £3k max.

I'm not looking at second-hand for the amp but I would consider valve-based if I could get something new that would outperform the Naim and have similar build quality and manufacturer support for a similar price. I would also prefer something British if possible. I realise I'm asking a lot!

I don't need a DAC in the amp, and have a separate power supply that I can use with Naim kit. I also have the standard Naim speaker cables. Current kit is in my signature.

Does anyone have any inisight they could add?

Thanks in advance

Lawrence

[southall-1998]

This is best asking over on PFM.

[DSJR]

No Shane :) This is where the OP's ears come in I'm afraid?

Naim amps may still use the tired old RCA PA amp circuit with a couple of (apparently, but insisted upon by a very experienced, qualified and well respected military and audio electronics engineer) backwards coupling caps and all, but changes to layout over the years have altered the sound somewhat from the original bolt-up models.

The earliest Naims were musical (the 160 was a bit strident) but went hard and harsh (good rhythm though) with the CB era. The Olive replacements were a step back to neutrality, at least when new and the current issue models, with increasing surface mount components and higher spec output transistors sound different again until they're clipped, upon which the old harshness comes back to bite - HARD!!!!!! Lack of very low bass 'breathiness' and some treble grain remain though, and prices are higher than ever with little to show for it.

If you're a Naim fan (brand loyalty and new expensive toys is what their continued success depends on, rather than the now declining stereo separates range), nothing I or anyone else can say will sway you to cheaper and truly better products. A shame though, as the musical and listening world is so much wider than these products allow... Such is the (necessary for business) blindness of many of their dealers, I doubt you'd ever get a chance of a direct comparison. My mate, who sold a bit of Naim for many years, found they only sold when comparisons WEREN'T on the agenda, sales being mostly to 'the converted.'

[losenotaminute]

This is best asking over on PFM.

Shane, thanks. There do same to be a lot more Naim owners on PFM, but it's also a bit of a bear pit......

Lawrence

[losenotaminute]

No Shane :) This is where the OP's ears come in I'm afraid?

Naim amps may still use the tired old RCA PA amp circuit with a couple of (apparently, but insisted upon by a very experienced, qualified and well respected military and audio electronics engineer) backwards coupling caps and all, but changes to layout over the years have altered the sound somewhat from the original bolt-up models.

The earliest Naims were musical (the 160 was a bit strident) but went hard and harsh (good rhythm though) with the CB era. The Olive replacements were a step back to neutrality, at least when new and the current issue models, with increasing surface mount components and higher spec output transistors sound different again until they're clipped, upon which the old harshness comes back to bite - HARD!!!!!! Lack of very low bass 'breathiness' and some treble grain remain though, and prices are higher than ever with little to show for it.

If you're a Naim fan (brand loyalty and new expensive toys is what their continued success depends on, rather than the now declining stereo separates range), nothing I or anyone else can say will sway you to cheaper and truly better products. A shame though, as the musical and listening world is so much wider than these products allow... Such is the (necessary for business) blindness of many of their dealers, I doubt you'd ever get a chance of a direct comparison. My mate, who sold a bit of Naim for many years, found they only sold when comparisons WEREN'T on the agenda, sales being mostly to 'the converted.'

Dave, would the Bantam Gold be worth a listen and fall into the category of British made integrated amps that are better and cheaper than the Supernait 2? I realise that Naim aren't the best or the best value amps around, which is why I'm looking for possible alternatives.

Naim amps in my experience are well built and have good residuals, so any price consideration also needs to factor this in. If I spend £2k on something else and then can only sell it for £200 in a few years time, that would be the same choice economically as spending £3k on a Naim amp that can be sold in a few years for £1,200.

Lawrence

[Beobloke]

I've had a bad experience with the Supernait 2 - I put my name forward to review it but some other bugger got there first. :(

[The Outcast]

I think you have to be very careful because the Naim Pre and power that you presently own are terrific music makers. I bitterly regret selling mine many moons ago. Save your self a whole bunch of cash and buy yourself a flatcap for the amps you already have. Yes it's only a thirty watter but it utilizes current to the full and with a flat cap powering the pre amp instead of the onboard PSU in the power amp it will give the modern Naim's a run for their money. Don't be too blinkered because there are some fabulous alternatives out there at the moment and a damn site cheaper than the Supernait 2.
I recently borrowed the new XS amp and simply couldn't get over how poor it was compared to many other products on the market. I do have to agree with David and would suggest you be receptive to alternatives. £3K is a hell of a lot of money and needs to be spent wisely to get a good return on your investment.

I hope you post the outcome.

[roob]

Have a look at the Sonneteer range, cheaper and sound excellent by all accounts.

[kenworthy100]

I heard the Supernait 2 at a recent dem when i was buying a dac for a system to go in my study, to my mind it is a good amp upholding the traditional Naim values and sound.

I listened to a number of different amps at the dem and it was apparent that there were others that could produce very good results for a lot less money, I also listened to the Rega Elicit r, Heed obelisk pre/power and some secondhand items from earlier Naim, Quad and Exposure. The dealer did not try to influence any decision and left me just to hook up and compare as I wanted.

If I were in the position that you are I would try and get a home dem or at the very least take your existing Naim amps and compare, to my mind the modern Naim sound has changed since their earlier offerings and perhaps not for the better. It must also be borne in mind that the secondhand market is slow at the moment and there are some really good buys to be had.

[wee tee cee]

Lawrence,
If your in auld reekie PM me, the Scottish troops are plotting a get together shortly......bantum golds/mono blocks/croft power/ tisbury audio pre/ valve monos/original bantum.......I have all the above apart from a gold if you fancy a listen Im off next week apart from a couple of morning appointments.

[losenotaminute]

Lawrence,
If your in auld reekie PM me, the Scottish troops are plotting a get together shortly......bantum golds/mono blocks/croft power/ tisbury audio pre/ valve monos/original bantum.......I have all the above apart from a gold if you fancy a listen Im off next week apart from a couple of morning appointments.

Hi Tony, I'll pm you, thank you very much for the offer.

I'd like to hear some alternatives - especially some valve kit.

Lawrence

[losenotaminute]

I think you have to be very careful because the Naim Pre and power that you presently own are terrific music makers. I bitterly regret selling mine many moons ago. Save your self a whole bunch of cash and buy yourself a flatcap for the amps you already have. Yes it's only a thirty watter but it utilizes current to the full and with a flat cap powering the pre amp instead of the onboard PSU in the power amp it will give the modern Naim's a run for their money. Don't be too blinkered because there are some fabulous alternatives out there at the moment and a damn site cheaper than the Supernait 2.
I recently borrowed the new XS amp and simply couldn't get over how poor it was compared to many other products on the market. I do have to agree with David and would suggest you be receptive to alternatives. £3K is a hell of a lot of money and needs to be spent wisely to get a good return on your investment.

I hope you post the outcome.

Sage advice, thank you. I do like the sound of the older Naim amps and ceratinly don't want to lose the musicality and fun factor by switching to something that it technically better but not as enjoyable.

I already have a Russ Andrews Powerpak III plugged into the Pre. It's supposed to be an alternative to the Hicap, I'm not sure if it brings much to the party but at least it isn't any worse.

If I make it to the dealer today I'll have a good listen to the Supernait 2 using a variety of sources and report back my impressions.

Lawrence

[DSJR]

Lawrence, the 92/90 are really weedy and dynamically limp in comparison with their bigger brethren (so we thought at the time and apart from the name on the front, totally outclassed), so a Supernait2 will have more mid-bass kick and actually a more 3-D presentation. The grey and grainy treble will still be there (where modern designs really score) and the case is far more solid. Hell, I've got to say it, but a Brio R will easily out-perform your existing amp quite easily once it's been on for half an hour or so, but since that's not what you want to hear, I'd look at Soneteer amongst others. The XTZ integrated will also give the kick in the pants missing from the 92/90 without losing the solid state 'dynamics' and 'impact' that owners of bigger Naims love so much!

A Flatcap will give some of the mid back, but the gutless performance will remain IMO. A classic case of how to hobble a design with inadequate power supplies and a high manufacturing profit margin :( Sorry, but it's the truth as I see it.

[losenotaminute]

Lawrence, the 92/90 are really weedy and dynamically limp in comparison with their bigger brethren (so we thought at the time and apart from the name on the front, totally outclassed), so a Supernait2 will have more mid-bass kick and actually a more 3-D presentation. The grey and grainy treble will still be there (where modern designs really score) and the case is far more solid. Hell, I've got to say it, but a Brio R will easily out-perform your existing amp quite easily once it's been on for half an hour or so, but since that's not what you want to hear, I'd look at Soneteer amongst others. The XTZ integrated will also give the kick in the pants missing from the 92/90 without losing the solid state 'dynamics' and 'impact' that owners of bigger Naims love so much!

A Flatcap will give some of the mid back, but the gutless performance will remain IMO. A classic case of how to hobble a design with inadequate power supplies and a high manufacturing profit margin :( Sorry, but it's the truth as I see it.

Dave,

I'm not wedded to Naim by any stretch of the imagination. When I bought the system I knew next to nothing about hifi and opted for the "safe" option....and then joined AoS to investigate how much further I could take things :). Tony has kindly offered to demo some of his kit, he has a decent collection of amps and speakers so I'm very much looking forward to hearing everything tomorrow. I've also heard some active speakers (Event Opals) that a member of the Wam owns, and have to say I was impressed. I don't think my speakers are the weakest link but actives might be worth considering.

I wouldn't personally describe my current system as lacking in bass or having weedy treble. The main area where I think I can get improvement is around consistency of delivery. Sometimes my system sounds absolutely amazing, but at other times it doesn't grab me as much with the music. I suspect that the amps are the cause and am interested to do some box swapping to see what changes. Maybe I could get the amps serviced (not by Naim) and this would give me what I'm looking for. FYI I leave the amps switched on all the time so it's not a warming-up issue.

Back to amps, the Brio R is definitely on the table, having green lights on the box is not of any importance to me...

My LP12 is now fully fettled, with a new cartridge and Khan top plate, and everything is set up to my satisfaction. I also have the RFC MC1 which overcomes the issue of battery voltage that I have with the Lentek SUT. With a newly cleaned record collection I'm now just fine tuning so I can get a consistently great sound. Does that make sense?

Lawrence

[roob]

I already have a Russ Andrews Powerpak III plugged into the Pre. It's supposed to be an alternative to the Hicap, I'm not sure if it brings much to the party but at least it isn't any worse.
Probably a backward step, the new SN2 uses Naims latest DR technology in its power supply.

[DSJR]

I'm trying very hard not to appear to shill for the Brio R, although some will take it that way. At this time, it's a very safe recommendation to make because it's been reviewed (technically too) and many people own it and only moved on to go upwards I understand.

I do hope you find tomorrow interesting for you and that it'll give you something to think about. Don't automatically assume that valves is the way to go, as there are some stonking solid state products out there, designed with modern components that are more efficient than those of even thirty years ago.

Granny sucking eggs here, but listening to music at home requires an emotional response from the listener. I know I sometimes come over all objectivist, but good well balanced gear (in a measurement sense) CAN deliver the musical goods too, although it's easy to tip the scales towards a ruthless forensic clinical presentation.

Good luck with the 'journey' :)

[losenotaminute]

Probably a backward step, the new SN2 uses Naims latest DR technology in its power supply.

Andy, yes indeed that is partly what caught my interest in the Supernait 2. Of course it could all be marketing hype.....

I've tried my amps with and without the extra power supply and if I'm honest, I don't notice any difference, but I don't tend to play music very loud so I suspect I'm not taxing the internal power supply to any degree.

I don't believe that adding an external power supply to the Supernait 2 would make any difference, most of the comments I've read on the Naim forum say that leaving it bare is just as good if not better, at least for normal domestic use. I'm off to the dealer shortly to dip my toe in the water. At least I'll have an initial impression against which to compare Tony's systems.

Rather annoyingly, the best upgrade I could do is to move house and get a properly proportioned listening room and no neighbours :D

Lawrence

[losenotaminute]

I'm trying very hard not to appear to shill for the Brio R, although some will take it that way. At this time, it's a very safe recommendation to make because it's been reviewed (technically too) and many people own it and only moved on to go upwards I understand.

I do hope you find tomorrow interesting for you and that it'll give you something to think about. Don't automatically assume that valves is the way to go, as there are some stonking solid state products out there, designed with modern components that are more efficient than those of even thirty years ago.

Granny sucking eggs here, but listening to music at home requires an emotional response from the listener. I know I sometimes come over all objectivist, but good well balanced gear (in a measurement sense) CAN deliver the musical goods too, although it's easy to tip the scales towards a ruthless forensic clinical presentation.

Good luck with the 'journey' :)

No worries Dave, if you like a product and think it's great VFM then you should feel free to say so.

I'm going to a Linn event at Hi-fi Corner next week to hear David Williamson speak about 40 years of the LP12, and to listen to their latest top of the range cartridge, on an all Linn system. I will be very interested to see what it sounds like, given that the cost of the entire system will be £silly.

Loud & Clear stock Rega kit so I can do a side by side with the Supernait 2. I hope that will be interesting, so I'll report back.

Lawrence

[losenotaminute]

Just back from listening to the Naim Supernait 2 at Loud & Clear. It's a very good looking bit of kit and is reassuringly heavy, but I have to say that my initial impressions are that it wouldn't be a material step forward in sound quality from my current 90/92 amps. This might be unfair - I only had 30 minutes or so to listen to music, and I'm not sure how many hours the amp has been run-in. I may well have formed a different view if it was heard at home through my turntable, but on the basis of today's experience it wasn't screaming "buy me".

Trying to sum up what I heard - the mid range was very good, voices were natural and engaging and there was plenty of detail.
The weaker areas did seem to be the bass and high trebles, no surpise there I hear some of you thinking :). It's difficult to describe why the sound didn't grab me, the best I could do is to say that bass guitars didn't sound very guitar like and the cymbals were a bit too harsh.

Having had a very interesting a productive conversation with the dealer, I'm going to try a home demo of one of the alternatives. I think a Rega Elicit-R will be first up, or possibly a Primare integrated. I am also wondering if the lack of consistency that I seem to get at the moment is due to tired capacitors and a service is all I need to reach my goal. I'll research the costs of getting my 90/92s serviced.

Lawrence

[wee tee cee]

I have an temple origional bantum/mono blocks/croft 7/DIY kel84 mono blocks/63 statics/spendor SP1s and might sneek into my sons room and borrow a mini t or two. Tisbury audio pre and mostly Mark Grant cabling.
My system is cheap lap top based but should let Lawrence get a few hours hearing different kit, might give him some different options.......

[losenotaminute]

I have an temple origional bantum/mono blocks/croft 7/DIY kel84 mono blocks/63 statics/spendor SP1s and might sneek into my sons room and borrow a mini t or two. Tisbury audio pre and mostly Mark Grant cabling.
My system is cheap lap top based but should let Lawrence get a few hours hearing different kit, might give him some different options.......

Tony,

In preparation for listening to the valve kit, should I forget to shave and wear white socks and sandals? ;)

Lawrence

[wee tee cee]

wear a hankie on your head and stick two pencils up yer nose.......just bring your ears and an open mind!

[wee tee cee]

any of the other Scottish troops want a couple of hours at my place tomorrow 1030 ish let me know.

[DSJR]

Actually, naimees used to be hippy types, although many of these will be retired now.

The Bantams sound great fun. I wonder how they comare?

[losenotaminute]

Im just on the way back from a brilliant morning with Tony. We managed to listen to all of his different amps and tried both the Spendor SP1s and the Quad 63s. I took a lot of notes and will write up a full report later, but just wanted to say a big thank you to Tony for a very enjoyable and informative morning listening to some great music.

Lawrence

[DSJR]

Hope you liked the speakers. I love the SP1 for most listening and it gets bigger or smaller sounding depending on the source and amp feeding it (power wise at least). 63's can be coming unstuck now :( but set up right off the floor and tilted back a bit they can sound enchanting.

[wee tee cee]

I utilise the Spendor stand with the castors with the 63s. We didn't have time to get the Croft and statics up to temperature but had a bit of fun swapping in different bits and bobs.......listened to some great tunes we both discovered new music.......what its all about.
Enjoy the music and trust your ears.
Looks like the Scottish mafia may have a new member..........

[losenotaminute]

Plenty of food for thought came with the tea and great music at Tony's this weekend. Here are my impressions of the different amps that we tried, and some comments on the quality of Tony's file-based setup.

Firstly, a big thank you to Tony for generously sharing lots of useful information, being a wonderful host and introducing me to some great music. I took notes of all of the tracks that we listened to and if I have time will add these as a new post.

Executive summary (for those not inclined to read the entire post)
- It is definitely possible to put together a very high quality system for a modest financial outlay
- Quad electrostatic speakers are sublime, have very good bass, but need a decent amount of time to warm up
- Mains quality makes a difference - this can be sorted with a relatively inexpensive balanced mains transformer such as those supplied by Airlink
- I probably have expensive tastes as I did prefer the most expensive power amp that we tried
- If you want to learn about hifi take up an offer to visit one of AoS's gurus and ask them lots of questions :)

Objectives
The objective of my visit, apart from having a great morning listening to new music, was to see what kind of quality system can be put together on a relatively modest budget, focusing mainly on the amplification. I was also naturally keen to hear Quad 63 eloctrostatic speakers for the first time. Behind it all is the inevitable journey I am enjoying looking for the best possible sound.....

Background
My current setup is in my signature. The LP12 is 1981 vintage and has been serviced and fettled by Loud & Clear in Edinburgh. The cartridge is new, as is the the step-up transformer. The P10 phono stage was purchased pre-owned and is now 2-3 years old. The current amps were made in 1994 and have never been serviced AFAIK. I use standard Naim speaker cables that came with the speakers. Mains leads are all standard apart from the one powering my TT which was made with parts from MCRU (haven't got round to making up another yet). The Isol-8 is fairly new and blocks DC amongst other things (http://www.isol-8.co.uk/powerline_mains_conditioner.html). My speakers are also from the 90s (launched in 1996) and IMHO are the muts nuts.

My current preference is definitely vinyl. Not so much due to the sound quality, although I think a really good vinyl system can more than compete with the best digital system, but because I love the wider experience of vinyl; buying it, cleaning it, handling it, cueing the stylus, turning it over, reading the album covers, etc..

In what follows I'm going to include images of some of the kit I heard, all taken from the web. I hope that other AoS members, who like me don't have a great deal of knowledge, will appreciate seeing what I'm writing about.

Tony's system
Tony's system uses CDs ripped to iTunes, and Spotify, on a basic laptop. He takes a USB out from the laptop, feeds this into a v-link converter to get an optical signal. Using Mark Grant optical cables this goes into a Beresford Bushmaster MkII DAC:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3804/10023836913_1e2433f3f4.jpg

From the DAC the audio signal goes into a Tisbury preamp, which is effectively a passive volume control:
http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5488/10023795945_27ed030e29.jpg

From the tisbury the audio signal goes to the power amp(s) and from there into the speakers, either Spendor SP1s:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3799/10023889946_05129e3100.jpg

Or Quad ESL-63s:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/10023881665_0ea9d5520d.jpg

After hearing how good some tracks can sound even using Spotify (I think Tony has premium, so files are 320kbps as opposed to 160 kbps for desktop standard level) I am considering paying for Spotify Premium (£9.99 per month). Maybe when I'm bored with my record collection :-)

Amps
First up was a Temple Audio Bantam, powered by a camcorder battery:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7388/10024403766_fbb361093e.jpg

From the website (http://www.templeaudio.net/bantam.html) the new price is £89.99, plus £11.99 for a power supply. There are other recent threads on AoS about the Bantam Gold (£190), which has received consistently positive comments for a sub £200 amp. I liked the sound of the Bantam. Using a £20 camcorder battery works brilliantly, no worries about mains quality! It has enough grunt for most speakers for domestic use. The sound maybe lacked a tiny bit of refinement, but it delivered very good bass. 'Who Are You?' by the Who could be played at trouser-flapping volumes through the Spendors should we so desire. We could hear the lid of the upright piano vibrating on certain frequencies, with no discernable loss of quality as the volume went up.

Next up were some Temple Audio monoblocks:

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5328/10024534624_7e5a5ec9ba.jpg
These are also small and portable, once warmed up they gave what I think was a small step-up in detail and "authority" compared with the Bantam. Cost for two new is just £330, including power supplies. They have variable gain, selected by pressing the button until the light turns the desired colour. This means that you don't need a pre-amp, they look really nice as well as sounding very good.

Next were some DIY Kel84 valve-based monoblocks. These needed a few minutes to warm up. The sound was actually not at all dis-similar to the Temple Audio amps, which I think indicates that all three options are fairly transparent in their presentation.

Finally, my favourite power amp was Tony's Croft Series 7 power amplifier:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7406/10024735395_fb9b9f7bb1.jpg

This is an interesting bit of kit for a number of reasons. From the website, "a hybrid design which uses 1 ECC83 valve for the input and high quality Mosfets for the output. Not a lightweight at 45-50W rms and very stable, capable of driving a wide variety of loudspeakers even those which present challenging loads." Once warmed up it really put a smile on my face, especially with the Quads, even on older recordings. The price of the Croft new is £700.

A great morning spent listening to a lot of varied music. Two highlights for you, I introduced Tony to Antonio Forcione:
spotify:track:7CNEK1BrcLaAP5RH68U0AL

and in return, I am now listening to some Duke Ellington:
spotify:track:5ouWAAf4Us56Ne9rFZGrAL

I would love to receive some comments back if you agree/disagree with what I've written, thanks once again to Tony.

Lawrence

[wee tee cee]

Lawrence,
Had good fun playing some good music and enjoyable company, was playing the Spanish lad tonight having noted it down......glad you enjoyed the couple of hours we had.....

The next get together with AOS Scottish lads would benefit from your contribution greatly, good hi fi without spending silly money is an ethos on this forum glad you embraced the experience with an open mind ( my wifes piano is still OK thankfully)

thanks for the comprehensive write up.......

[losenotaminute]

Lawrence,
Had good fun playing some good music and enjoyable company, was playing the Spanish lad tonight having noted it down......glad you enjoyed the couple of hours we had.....

The next get together with AOS Scottish lads would benefit from your contribution greatly, good hi fi without spending silly money is an ethos on this forum glad you embraced the experience with an open mind ( my wifes piano is still OK thankfully)

thanks for the comprehensive write up.......

Count me in for the next get-together.

A quick question, was I correct in thinking you have Spotify premium? The sound quality was very impressive both on the iTunes tracks and the downloads.

Lawrence

P.S. Antonio is Italian not Spanish, although he has lived in the UK for a long time. He originally played the drums and only moved to the guitar when his family and neighbours got fed up with the noise. One of the best decisions I think he has made :)

[wee tee cee]

premium at a tenner a month is what you heard....not bad eh!

[MikeMusic]

No one has mentioned Rega ....

Would have thought they competed well.

My Isis CD player is superb and I'm sure the brother Osiris integrated amp is on a par even though more money
but
if you get one 2nd hand with an original receipt I wonder if that lifetime guarantee I have applies.....

[losenotaminute]

premium at a tenner a month is what you heard....not bad eh!

Have just taken the plunge and subscribed on the 30 day trial. I received an error at the end of the credit card input stage, but it now shows my account as premium so let's hope they fail to take a payment in a month's time and don't notice! I've checked the "high quality streaming box" and also installed it on my phone, so I should now be able to listen to the Album Club selections in high quality.

Lawrence

[wee tee cee]

Enjoy....great way to discover new music.

[Floyddroid]

It is very good
I'm very tempted buy the Supernait 2 to replace my early 90s Naim pre and power combo. There have only been a few reviews so far, but everything I've read has been very complimentary. Having said that, I'm not sure I have much faith in reviews anyway as almost all new equipment is given 4 or 5 stars....

Discussions about the Supernait 2 on the Naim forum are also very favourable, but that is to be expected.

I will be calling into the dealership on Saturday to have a listen. My dealer is probably going to push me towards the Primare or Simaudio Moon equivalent integrated amps but I suspect this is more to do with them having more experience with the alternatives compared to the Supernait 2. At £2,750 it seems to be relatively keenly priced, especially considering the 5 year warranty and good residual values that come with new Naim kit. My current amps have served me well and sound very good to my ears, but I have received a few comments both on and off-line which imply I could do better. My budget is £3k max.

I'm not looking at second-hand for the amp but I would consider valve-based if I could get something new that would outperform the Naim and have similar build quality and manufacturer support for a similar price. I would also prefer something British if possible. I realise I'm asking a lot!

I don't need a DAC in the amp, and have a separate power supply that I can use with Naim kit. I also have the standard Naim speaker cables. Current kit is in my signature.

Does anyone have any inisight they could add?

Thanks in advance

Lawrence

[Teme]

I had the new SuperNait 2 in my system for a couple of days and I was pleasantly surprised by it. I had an olive Naim system for a while recently (a NAC72 + HiCap + NAP140), and while they definitely had the pace, rhythm and timing they did sound two-dimensional, cold and lacked resolution and finesse in the tone and timbre. The SuperNait is a whole lot more transparent, resolute, three-dimensional, delicate and able to reproduce the feelings and timbres of the singers/performers/instruments. I also found its music reproduction to be a lot more balanced than the olive Naim set I had (which in my opinion over-emphasised the bass drive and slam). The SuperNait 2 also manages to do all this while maintaining the usual Naim strengths in timing and bass control.

When compared to my current McIntosh amps (60th Anniversary C22 pre and MC75 monos) the SuperNait 2 was obviously a very different beast. Let's just say that the Naim rocks a tad better (although I think the Macs are strong in this department for tube amps) but is well and truly left behind in liquidity, timbre, emotion, reproduction of the spatial cues etc. Nevertheless, especially for its price I really quite liked the SuperNait 2 and could imagine living with one without feeling short-changed.

Br,
Teme

[DSJR]

Now compare the Supernait 2 with integrateds costing half the price and tell me it's good, especially for the money they're asking..... Electronic components for amplifiers are dirt cheap apart from the mains transformer and bearing in mind the Supernait 2 has been stripped out a bit in new form, with a price increase too apparently for the privilege, it just can't cost more to make than an Elicit R. As Mike suggested above, the Osiris is in a completely different ballpark on the caseework alone and given half an hour or so to come on song, I reckon the sonics would be as well...

[Teme]

Well I would expect the Osiris to be superior to the SuperNait2 - at least in some respects - since it is more than double the price. Does this make the Osiris better value than the SN2 keeping in mind that the components are (as you say) dirt cheap? Not sure. My point was purely that for me the SN2 does seem to be a good amp and better value than some other Naim amps I have heard.

Br,
Teme