RCM , Which one is best ? Your opinions please

[Audio Al]

RCM , Which one is best ? Your opinions please

I am in the market for a new RCM , Have owned a Okki Nokki in the past

Looking for something better and less time consuming ;)

[Ali Tait]

+1, me lookee too.

[Audio Al]

Clearaudio Double Matrix Professional Wet vacuum system does 2 sides at once

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Audio desk ultrasonic

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one with vacuum one with warm air drying

[sq225917]

Usually blowing hot air over something gives it a static charge.

[julesd68]

Have owned a Okki Nokki in the past

Looking for something better and less time consuming ;)

Al - what didn't you like about the Okki Nokki?

I thought all RCM's are time consuming to be honest ...

[Mika K]

From traditional ones the Keith Monks and Loricraft are atleast really good ones. However, the best at the moment by my experience is the Audio Desk Ultrasonic..

http://www.tonepublications.com/analogaholic/audio-desk-systeme-rcm/

[Ali Tait]

Yeah, but that costs more than most decks!

[Ali Tait]

Seen these on the bay -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kuzma-VINVAC-LP-Record-Vacuum-Cleaning-Machine-IN-230V-/280752103111?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item415e211ec7

Anyone any knowledge?

[Audio Al]

Al - what didn't you like about the Okki Nokki?

I thought all RCM's are time consuming to be honest ...

J , The Okki Nokki was OK , it only cleans one side at a time :( Also the rubber platter mat gets dirty very quickly and if not cleaned transfers dirt to the clean side of the record you have just cleaned :doh:

Quite noisy as well

I had some problems clamping the LP's down as well

[Tarzan]

Thanks for the records Al:)

[Audio Al]

Thanks for the records Al:)

:eek::scratch:

[Tarzan]

Very generous:youtheman:

[AlexM]

I prefer the Moth RCM Mk. 2/3 to the Okki Nokki because there isn't a platter to get dirty!. It seems a little daft to clean a side and then set it down damp against somrething that had something dirty sitting on it seconds before.

I built one myself from a kit and It works very well indeed. I think they should include a set of ear defenders because it makes a stupid amount of noise. It does the job required very well if you can live with that. I'm sure there are better/faster cleaners if you want to pay quite a bit more for them. Double sided cleaning would speed things up, but otherwise not sure what the value is in going for something more expensive myself.

Cheers,
Alex

[AlexM]

Ali,

Yes, I've seen one in the flesh, but not used it. I think it is quite a lot quieter than the Moth (what isn't?) and I'm sure it does pretty much the same job. It does look quite nice though, although lacking the charm of my self-assembled Ferarri-red jobbie!

Alex


Seen these on the bay -

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kuzma-VINVAC-LP-Record-Vacuum-Cleaning-Machine-IN-230V-/280752103111?pt=Turntable_Parts_Accessories&hash=item415e211ec7

Anyone any knowledge?

[doodoos]

Suggest Loricraft. Made in UK, fairly quiet, tough as old boots + discount if dealing direct. Does the job for me.

[Clive197]

I use a Keith Monks cleaner, it has always done the business for me.

[hifi_dave]

I've been using and selling the Moth RCM for 30 years or so and can't recommend them highly enough. They do a great job of the cleaning - very thorough and effective and they are totally reliable over many years.

I don't know of anything better unless you want automatic use or other gizmos.

[prestonchipfryer]

I have a Moth RCM. It's noisy for sure but does a very good job. In the past year or so I have cleaned over 1,000 LPs with it, and am very pleased.

[hifi_dave]

They all are noisy but I don't see a problem unless you want to use it at the same time as playing music..:scratch:

[Ali Tait]

Moth sounds like the way to go then. I note the DIY Moth kits on ebay, is there a cheaper source?

[prestonchipfryer]

They all are noisy but I don't see a problem unless you want to use it at the same time as playing music..:scratch:

I use ear defenders while using the Moth RCM, which, it says on the side of the ear cups is -19dB.

[Thing Fish]

I use a PHK record cleaner - http://www.maquinaphk.xpg.com.br/models.html

It does the job just as well as the more expensive ones is very well built and at only £118 it's a no brainer...:confused:

I've cleaned nearly 700 records with it and it has thus far been faultless.

You do need your own vaccume cleaner but then who doesn't have one of those...:)

[synsei]

I use a PHK record cleaner - http://www.maquinaphk.xpg.com.br/models.html

It does the job just as well as the more expensive ones is very well built and at only £118 it's a no brainer...:confused:

I've cleaned nearly 700 records with it and it has thus far been faultless.

You do need your own vaccume cleaner but then who doesn't have one of those...:)

That's an interesting unit Dave, is it available in the UK?

[Thing Fish]

That's an interesting unit Dave, is it available in the UK?

No. I imported mine from Brazil where the guy makes them. Delivery was very fast and only about £15 and as he sent it in a used box I didn't pay any import tax.

[synsei]

Cool. Presumably he can supply them to operate on 240v, or are you using yours with a step down traffo?

[Thing Fish]

Cool. Presumably he can supply them to operate on 240v, or are you using yours with a step down traffo?

When you buy it he asks you what voltage motor you want and then supplies you with the correct one for your country.

He's very approachable via email and even included a free CD of his band...:D

[synsei]

When you buy it he asks you what voltage motor you want and then supplies you with the correct one for your country.

He's very approachable via email and even included a free CD of his band...:D

Awesome, any good? ;)

[PaulStewart]

Hi All

I have one of the first Loricraft PRC 3s, I've had it for about 10 years, it has never missed a beat. As it happens Terry sent me one of the rubber mats today as the original foam one was getting a bit dusty. Before that I had a PRC 2 but Terry borrowed it for the high end show and someone offered him cash for it at the show....... I was pleased actually as I prefer the one box unit. Most important thingis to get the fluid mix right. I spent ages when I worked with Terry using a cutting lathe microscope to see which flowed best. Now much as I love Martina (She's an old friend) personally I don't like L'Art du Son fluid. It's organic and things will grow in it if it's made up in too big a batch and left in sunlight and warmth :( and it is not any better at cleaning that water and alcohol. The best recipe is two parts distilled water, one part isopropyl and 3 drops per litre of ethylene glycol (Photoflow) wetting agent to break the surface tension. This is quite critical as too little wetting agent means it won't flow into the grooves properly and too much makes dry areas on the disc, with liquid in the depths of the groove which won't come out. The Loricraft, the Monks and other vacum machine all work well with this

BTW I had a VPI before the Loricraft, cleaned almost as well and was quicker, but the noise was deafening.

Cheers

[Ali Tait]

What's the difference of the Moth with forced cooling?

[Gazjam]

How does the Spinclean machine rate?
Good discussion here about it:
http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=32319

Its dirt cheap too, maybe great bang for buck?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Spin-Clean-Record-Washer-MKII/dp/B008EBS9G4/ref=sr_1_1/280-7713675-8490157?ie=UTF8&qid=1380050005&sr=8-1&keywords=spin-clean+record+washer

[Thing Fish]

Awesome, any good? ;)

Dunno haven't played it yet. I don't own a CD player so it would have to be via my laptop.

[prsjnb]

J , The Okki Nokki was OK , it only cleans one side at a time :( Also the rubber platter mat gets dirty very quickly and if not cleaned transfers dirt to the clean side of the record you have just cleaned :doh:

Quite noisy as well

I had some problems clamping the LP's down as well

For this to have happened the records must have had visible surface contamination to begin with: why not remove the bulk of this first with a carbon fibre brush reserved for this purpose or wipe the platter map with a damp (but not saturated) microfibre cloth before placing the record cleaned side down? Both approaches have worked well with my Okki Nokki RCM.

What was the nature of the clamping problems you experienced? This is not something I have encountered (thus far, at least) with my Okki Nokki which I rate as one of best investments in Hi-Fi I have ever made (incontrovertibly better listening experience with new, old and second-hand records, an end to static and considerably less time wasted cleaning the cartridge stylus).

I don't dispute that the cleaning process can be tedious, but this would be the case with the majority of currently available and affordable RCMs.

Jon;)

[MCRU]

the op asked which is the best RCM, its hardly a spin clean or some other cheapo one, to me the best means it will last a lifetime, it is quiet, it cleans both sides at once and vacuums all the crud off, also it needs to empty easy and be compact

thanks

[Gazjam]

Like the Moth MK2 you mean?
Are there alternatives?

Why cant cheap be good? :)

[Mr Kipling]

Moth MK II. Was that the one that played records as it cleaned them and displayed winning lottery results around the run-out groove? A real smartarse of a cleaner, in my opinion. Or was that the MK III?

[AlfaGTV]

For this to have happened the records must have had visible surface contamination to begin with: why not remove the bulk of this first with a carbon fibre brush reserved for this purpose or wipe the platter map with a damp (but not saturated) microfibre cloth before placing the record cleaned side down? Both approaches have worked well with my Okki Nokki RCM.

What was the nature of the clamping problems you experienced? This is not something I have encountered (thus far, at least) with my Okki Nokki which I rate as one of best investments in Hi-Fi I have ever made (incontrovertibly better listening experience with new, old and second-hand records, an end to static and considerably less time wasted cleaning the cartridge stylus).

I don't dispute that the cleaning process can be tedious, but this would be the case with the majority of currently available and affordable RCMs.

Jon;)

+1 big time!
(Although i have to admit, my Okki is currently getting serviced as the threads on the clampdown thing have gone out... Also the unit i producing a considerable hum when connected to mains, and the suction pipehas corroded and the paint fell of where it enters the RCM. The latest issue also manifest itself in the way that the arm wont release itself when i kill the vaccuum, have to aid it somewhat.)
I have cleaned more 1000records on it though so its seen its good use!
Regards Mike

[Macca]

I've noticed on forums that a lot of people start to have issues with the Oki Nokki cleaner after a while. You never see the same comments about the Moth. The Moth is well built, cleverly designed and reliable, I'd highly recommend it. I'd only swap it for the fancy automated effort with the ultrasonic system but they are about £5K. In short, get a Moth.

[Tarzan]

My one as it is cleaning your records( non pishanto) at the moment.


Very enjoyable hour spent in your company yesterday Al

[AlfaGTV]

I've noticed on forums that a lot of people start to have issues with the Oki Nokki cleaner after a while. You never see the same comments about the Moth. The Moth is well built, cleverly designed and reliable, I'd highly recommend it. I'd only swap it for the fancy automated effort with the ultrasonic system but they are about £5K. In short, get a Moth.

I'm sure the Moth is a very good cleaner, but to me it does not fit the bill... I use hand labour to work up a foam with the cleaning fluids, and that is not doable on an RCM without a platter...
Regards Mike

[Ali Tait]

What's the difference of the Moth with forced cooling?

Anyone?

[daytona600]

Forced cooling Exhaust fan to keep the motor cool - Ideal for record shops with high volume cleaning to cool the motor
BBC have several Moths

[Ali Tait]

Ah, thought it was something like that, cheers Scott.

[Audio Al]

For this to have happened the records must have had visible surface contamination to begin with: why not remove the bulk of this first with a carbon fiber brush reserved for this purpose or wipe the platter map with a damp (but not saturated) microfiber cloth before placing the record cleaned side down? Both approaches have worked well with my Okki Nokki RCM.

So you clean your records before you clean your records ?

What was the nature of the clamping problems you experienced?
The record would sit in the lip of the center threaded spindle and when tightening down the holding knob would not hold the record , I found out this was happening as the knob would come undone and stop holding the LP

This is not something I have encountered (thus far, at least) with my Okki Nokki which I rate as one of best investments in Hi-Fi I have ever made (incontrovertibly better listening experience with new, old and second-hand records, an end to static and considerably less time wasted cleaning the cartridge stylus).

I don't dispute that the cleaning process can be tedious, but this would be the case with the majority of currently available and affordable RCMs.

Jon;)

Cheers

[Audio Al]

Jon

That doesn't sound very good build quality , If I buy a new machine I want it to last me out ;)

[Audio Al]

Moth MK II. Was that the one that played records as it cleaned them and displayed winning lottery results around the run-out groove? A real smartarse of a cleaner, in my opinion. Or was that the MK III?


Ye Ye that's the model I require , I would like the KM11 -1 that dispenses scotch and coke after it has modified the wast water / cleaning fluid :D

[Macca]

Ye Ye that's the model I require , I would like the KM11 -1 that dispenses scotch and coke after it has modified the wast water / cleaning fluid :D

You'll need the one that has the built in ice-maker as well then...

[Audio Al]

I've noticed on forums that a lot of people start to have issues with the Oki Nokki cleaner after a while. You never see the same comments about the Moth. The Moth is well built, cleverly designed and reliable, I'd highly recommend it. I'd only swap it for the fancy automated effort with the ultrasonic system but they are about £5K. In short, get a Moth.

Martin the ultrasonic model is £1850

[Audio Al]

You'll need the one that has the built in ice-maker as well then...

Good god they think of everything :)

[Audio Al]

My one as it is cleaning your records( non pishanto) at the moment.


Very enjoyable hour spent in your company yesterday Al

Your welcome

What did the better half think of the video :lol:

[Audio Al]

Does anyone own a Clearaudio Double Matrix Professional :)

[Mr Kipling]

Forced cooling Exhaust fan to keep the motor cool - Ideal for record shops with high volume cleaning to cool the motor
BBC have several Moths

I've had a couple in the house from time to time. But never more than two. I did have rather a large spider stalking the carpet last night.

[losenotaminute]

Does anyone own a Clearaudio Double Matrix Professional :)

I hired the cheaper Clearaudio RCM from my dealer last weekend. It only does one side at a time, but to be honest I would prefer that as the machine is less complex. It performed very well and seemed to be well put together. The dealer recommended the VPI for a purchase however as it is cheaper and just as good. VPI have just launched a new $1,000 machine, which I will wait to see before buying anything.

Lawrence

[AlfaGTV]

I hired the cheaper Clearaudio RCM from my dealer last weekend. It only does one side at a time, but to be honest I would prefer that as the machine is less complex. It performed very well and seemed to be well put together. The dealer recommended the VPI for a purchase however as it is cheaper and just as good. VPI have just launched a new $1,000 machine, which I will wait to see before buying anything.

Lawrence

I may be wrong but the one you hired, is basically an Okki Nokki with a little different housing. Built in the same factory i believe... However, more expensive though... ;)
Regards, Mike
Edit:
I see the latest generation of te Clearaudio Matrix has been redesigned!
The one i refer to is:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/jpg/ca_smartmatrix.jpg

[PaulStewart]

Ye Ye that's the model I require , I would like the KM11 -1 that dispenses scotch and coke after it has modified the wast water / cleaning fluid :D

Years ago I had lunch with Terry O'Sullivan and Nigel Pearson of Loricraft and the late Great John Borwick. The discussion turned to the RCM and Percy Wilson, John told us that when he was with Percy tying out the first prototype, they used gin as the cleaning fluid. It apparently worked very well but was a bit pricey :)

[losenotaminute]

The version I hired was the Smart Matrix, it looked like this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3830/9937568355_b2b68bfc5f_o.jpg

I think the cost of the Clearaudio is around £800 and the equivalent VPI is around £650, if memory serves. I can't really see the point of the double sided machine unless you need it for industrial quantities of vinyl, I like to be able to see what's going on and apply the cleaning fluid precisely in the quantities and location I want.

I have my heart set on the Audiodesk Systeme but I can't justify nearly £2k when the £650 VPI version is nearly as good. I may however a moment of weakness and just pull the trigger on the German ultrasonic cleaner.

Lawrence

[AlfaGTV]

The version I hired was the Smart Matrix, it looked like this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3830/9937568355_b2b68bfc5f_o.jpg

I think the cost of the Clearaudio is around £800 and the equivalent VPI is around £650, if memory serves. I can't really see the point of the double sided machine unless you need it for industrial quantities of vinyl, I like to be able to see what's going on and apply the cleaning fluid precisely in the quantities and location I want.

I have my heart set on the Audiodesk Systeme but I can't justify nearly £2k when the £650 VPI version is nearly as good. I may however a moment of weakness and just pull the trigger on the German ultrasonic cleaner.

Lawrence

That deffo is an Okki! :)

Seen the newest edition?
http://www.whathifi.com/sites/whathifi.com/files/images/newsarchive/Clearaudio_Smart_Matrix_Prof.jpg
looks to be made with some more care than the Okki, but costs plentymore too...

Regards Mike

[AlfaGTV]

Years ago I had lunch with Terry O'Sullivan and Nigel Pearson of Loricraft and the late Great John Borwick. The discussion turned to the RCM and Percy Wilson, John told us that when he was with Percy tying out the first prototype, they used gin as the cleaning fluid. It apparently worked very well but was a bit pricey :)

:D I tried Amaretto... Still havent been able to pry the record off the platter... ;)

[Tarzan]

The version I hired was the Smart Matrix, it looked like this:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3830/9937568355_b2b68bfc5f_o.jpg

I think the cost of the Clearaudio is around £800 and the equivalent VPI is around £650, if memory serves. I can't really see the point of the double sided machine unless you need it for industrial quantities of vinyl, I like to be able to see what's going on and apply the cleaning fluid precisely in the quantities and location I want.

I have my heart set on the Audiodesk Systeme but I can't justify nearly £2k when the £650 VPI version is nearly as good. I may however a moment of weakness and just pull the trigger on the German ultrasonic cleaner.

Lawrence



Ultrasonic cleaning is where LP cleaning is at!

[PaulStewart]

:D I tried Amaretto... Still havent been able to pry the record off the platter... ;)

Hmm! Perhaps I'll try cleaning my Ravi Shenkar albums with Bombay Sapphire :lol:

[Mr Kipling]

Ultrasonic cleaning is where LP cleaning is at!

To my mind, anyone ready to spend £2K on a rcm is a lazy b-----d with too much money. I'm a firm believer that one should suffer and put a bit of effort into one's vinyl addiction. Why not go the whole hog and just hire a man servent. I'd do it for minimum wage rate.

[Audioman]

The Okki Nokki is back in production. Stamford Audio have new supplies. Does same job as Clearaudio Smart Matrix for £395. For the sceptics an RCM does a far better job than any hand cleaning method I have tried as it sucks all the gunk and cleaning fluid out of the grooves.

[Audio Al]

Another maker in the market

http://www.hannl-vinylcleaner.com/shop/index.php/cat/c1_cleaning-machines.html/page/2

with a UK dealer

[trio leo]

I'm sure the ultrasonic RCM does a superb job, but they are mega bucks, I'm quite happy with my Okki Nokki, it is well built and does the job exceptionally well and IMO not that noisy either.

enjoy your music

regards Al

[Audio Al]

Picked up a DIY build Moth RCM from a WW member :)

I did not realise the vacuum tube is fixed

When in use you clean the top face of the record , then turn it over and start the vac pump

In theory you should then be able to clean the second side while the vac pump is working

One other point worth mentioning , It IS LOUD :eek::eek::eek:

[kininigin]

The Okki Nokki is back in production. Stamford Audio have new supplies. Does same job as Clearaudio Smart Matrix for £395. For the sceptics an RCM does a far better job than any hand cleaning method I have tried as it sucks all the gunk and cleaning fluid out of the grooves.

I have to agree,i had one of those Knosti manual cleaners and it was better than nothing.I then found out my local Audio T had a Keith Monk machine,so took some records down for a test run as i wanted to see if they really are worth the money (RCM's in general not the KM!!)

The answer for me was a definite YES!!

[The Grand Wazoo]

In theory you should then be able to clean the second side while the vac pump is working

In practice you can and should scrub the second side while the first side is being vacuumed. And due to the small hub instead of a full sized platter, you don't place a newly cleaned side onto a grub-stained grease pool!

It may be noisy, but it's the best of the cheaper machines out there (i.e. under 1k).

[Audio Al]

And due to the small hub instead of a full sized platter, you don't place a newly cleaned side onto a grub-stained grease pool!


Good point , I never thought of that :doh:

[Gazjam]

Thinking of getting a Spinclean for those charity shop buys...
Products been going for 40+ years, can it really be that shite?
Sure theres better out there, but Im talking real world sensibility here.


PS been buying vinyl, its addictive! :)

[The Barbarian]

We ought to have a thread stating shops around the country that have a record cleaning service or even machine rentals that people can uses. If others are like me i would never post a record off to be cleaned, id rather take one in to be cleaned right under my nose..

[The Grand Wazoo]

There ought to be an AoS machine, doing the rounds for a small fee to cover transport and a little added on to go towards replacement cost.

[Ali Tait]

Just got my Nano Meco through yesterday. Looks a bit Heath Robinson, but does the job just fine. Will clean a few discs tonight.

[Peter Galbavy]

I emailed Clearaudio with an enquiry about the Double Matrix Pro and dealers and they replied that there is a new model on the was that also does ultrasonic called, unsurprisingly, the Clearaudio Double Matrix Professional Sonic.

I have no further details but I have emailed their distributor in the UK.

[twotone]

Thinking of getting a Spinclean for those charity shop buys...
Products been going for 40+ years, can it really be that shite?
Sure theres better out there, but Im talking real world sensibility here.


PS been buying vinyl, its addictive! :)

Aye it is:eek: re the spinclean is well worth the £70 new IMO but just don't leave it full of cleaner/water for any length of time otherwise the dirt/bacteria starts to grow inside it:doh:

[twotone]

There ought to be an AoS machine, doing the rounds for a small fee to cover transport and a little added on to go towards replacement cost.

That's actually a very good idea, I'd defo be up for this.

[fiddlemaker]

Just got my Nano Meco through yesterday. Looks a bit Heath Robinson, but does the job just fine. Will clean a few discs tonight.

What was the total cost including shipping etc?

[Audio Al]

http://www.dutycalculator.com/dc/185065850/electronics-video-games/audio-mp3/turntables/import-duty-rate-for-importing-phk-nano-meco-record-cleaning-machine-from-brazil-to-united-kingdom-is-2/

[Ali Tait]

What was the total cost including shipping etc?


£145 in total.

[struth]

have to say the moth one I have is excellent...never had any trouble and it does a grand job....If I sell enough of my vinyl I may sell it as it wont be value for money if I dont have to use it much.