View Full Version : MQn
I just heard MQn wonderful performance with a Cunas DAC beats Jplay IMO and is free. If using Windows this is well worth a trail.
Yes tried it last week initially using funnily enough a ciúnas dac. Had a meet up with linear supply pc's/batteries testing out jplay streaming.
The intention was to see if haswell fanless pc builds with batteries and linear bested laptop/fanless pc batteries/linear. Toward the end tried MQN. A few of the lads had raved about it. Huge soundstage.TT heads astounded at the performance of this basic player. Definitely worth a trial.
Probably not for the faint hearted. All the machines we were using had either 2012 core server or minimal server to run MQN.
If this keeps developing JPlay will have a fight on their hands. Functionality is basic on this but I believe streaming maybe possible using foobar.
I am considering getting a cordless keyboard/mouse and a long extension cable for the screen if longer testing proves its worth. Had a bit of a listen at the weekend and bowled over.
serendipitydawg
23-09-2013, 22:28
"Probably not for the faint hearted "
Extremely well put. I Googled MQn, found a thread on head-fi from the developer and it made my head spin!
I love the idea of free software improving sound quality but sadly can't try this because i only have Windows 7 32 bit running on an Atom based nettop
It really is very good but there are daily developments to keep up with, some of the developments are significant. As I'm away for a week I wonder what surprise I'll come back to. Anyone who believes bits are bits with all players sounding the same needs to try MQn, even small version differences make for big SQ changes. Sorry but bits are not bits, there's so much more to it.
TBH it isn't that hard. You only need to download 4 small files it is just when you get to his page as Clive sayes there are about 44 files that can be downloaded.
Compared to core server instal on usb stick it is a dawdle but i have just started using it and initially it is a bit finicky.
Some of the lads I know where banging on about it so had to try eventually.Glad I did. Probably better off not mentioning the bits are bits buzzword as that always attracts a crowd. Software development and the guys that do it are incredible they are like the ancient explorers seeking out new civilizations. Totally agree the leap in this area is incredible in such a short space of time(last 3-4yrs). SQ improvements beyond what Jplay can manage from such a simple player is scary. The rules just change so quickly and that is how things move so fast in CA land.
I would love to understand what mechanisms are at play here. Assuming the PCM data is not being manipulated in some way and that the hardware is remaining the same what the heck is going on? I read the thread and there seemed to be reference that a different compiler made a difference to the sound! :stalks: I can't try it unfortunatley, don't have a 64bit OS.....well I do but I cant put a none corporate version of Win8 on my work issued laptop! :(
I've never heard of it. Anyone care to add an explanation to the thread?
Its a open software that using peoples feedback to get improve on it
http://www.head-fi.org/t/657920/mqn-minimalist-wasapi-wav-c-memory-player-integrated-with-foobar2000
There's a longtread here, currently 34 pages.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/visual-studio-2012-c-and-wasapi-minimalist-player-15401/index34.html
The developer is not writing a commercial product, what he's doing is to try many different methods of coding the player to understand what differences in sound result. It's mainly about what instructions to use to move the data around and what how to code the render loop.
MQn currently only plays WAVs, there's a SOX based workaound but I simply converted my WAVs in batch mode.
MQn only plays 16/44.1 though there are some older versions for 24/96.
MQn doesn't like file names with unusual characters, eg accents.
The player is used by copying tracks or a directory into the windows copy buffer, then run MQn.
The foibles above will be fixec in time but focus for now is SQ, which is fabulous, well mostly fabulous as of course some of the methods tried are not always keepers.
Oh yes, mostly the code is for i3, i5 and i7 machines as it uses the SSE instructions. ATOM versions exist and I think some AMD processors may work. All W7 or Win 8 64 bit.
Many AMD processors also support the SSE extensions (for instance, this here X4 975). You can use the CPU-ID (http://www.cpuid.com/) (previously CPU-Z) utility to check your CPU's capabilities.
The foibles above will be fixed in time but focus for now is SQ, which is fabulous, well mostly fabulous as of course some of the methods tried are not always keepers.
Clive's description is very accurate. To download it requires tiny amount of space. 4 exe's sit in one folder. As Clive outlined just like Jplay copy but don't paste just open the MQNBAT file and you get a windows command prompt and the tracks load and play. It is a bit like Jplay was in the beginning. Don't want to go mad on praising it but the SQ from the latest version I tried 2.44 is really impressive. I think it maybe well ahead of Jplay but of course can't play hires and functionality is not there yet. But if holding an ipad is of no interest to you this looks like the future.
Many AMD processors also support the SSE extensions (for instance, this here X4 975). You can use the CPU-ID (http://www.cpuid.com/) (previously CPU-Z) utility to check your CPU's capabilities.
My main system is an intel i7, but my office PC is an AMD PhenomII. I will give it a go and report.
I s'pose it's too early for someone to have compared it with Fidelizer??
I heard Jplay against Fidelizer thought Jplay was a step up I enjoy MQn in terms of sound over Jplay
I've not tried MQn with Fidelizer yet. IIRC there's some way Fidelizer interacts with setting of the cpu timeslice that MQn doesn't need or prefer. Jplay does this too so it's better to stop the Jplay service or deinstall it when trying MQn. There seems to be a philosophical difference with MQn. Jplay drives cpus hard and essentially takes over the machine as much as possible. MQn is light touch and lets you do other things in // on your PC. Whilst tuning your pc seems to improve SQ with MQn, it's not as important as it is with Jplay.
...trying it tonight on the new server.
I found Fidelizer added to the quality when run with Jplay, wonder if this will be the same.
System a bit up and down atm with the new stuff plumbed in, should get an idea of it though.
Just played a track with it, then played the same track with XXHE. Think I'm still favouring XXHE, similar to jplay there seems to be still a small lack of physicality there, bass is nice and solid but lacking a little shape and texture. Will give it some more time.
There quite a lot of versions Robert so worth playing around with.
I think MQn is still developing rapidly
After a busy week getting to try out a new version.It's now at 52. Wow is the only word.Scary stuff. I have spent a bit on meicord ethernet cable and setting up Jplay streaming but this is how I would imagine a Lampizator Level5 sounding like. It has all the detail but great body and warm analogue sound. I never thought I would be suggesting Jplay is thin sounding in comparison (now please don't think that means Jplay aint up to much it is excellent this is just better) Anyone interested in CA has to try this. I would be curious what TT heads think of this comparing to their turntable. Don't have any so can't compare.
ITs very close to what a really good TT will do still have a slight preference for the Salvation but agree with your findings Toni. Fot me most of my music is digital and this as you say has more body and warmth
Was listening to Jplay using River on my 2nd system this morning using one laptop and it is still very good. Wanted to compare it to MQn but unfortunately even though track will load no music sounding. That bloody HP laptop is painful. Any other laptop or PC I have used or come across will happily load an operating system from usb but not this yoke. I5 less than a year old 8gb of ram!
Was listening to Jplay using River on my 2nd system this morning using one laptop and it is still very good. Wanted to compare it to MQn but unfortunately even though track will load no music sounding. That bloody HP laptop is painful. Any other laptop or PC I have used or come across will happily load an operating system from usb but not this yoke. I5 less than a year old 8gb of ram!
My HP Envy i5 8GB 1TB wouldn't run MQn at first. I changed directory, edited the path in the bat and it works....not sure why though. Also the HP doesn't like the opimisation script from the jplay forum, it ends up being non-bootable.
After a busy week getting to try out a new version.It's now at 52. Wow is the only word.Scary stuff. I have spent a bit on meicord ethernet cable and setting up Jplay streaming but this is how I would imagine a Lampizator Level5 sounding like. It has all the detail but great body and warm analogue sound. I never thought I would be suggesting Jplay is thin sounding in comparison (now please don't think that means Jplay aint up to much it is excellent this is just better) Anyone interested in CA has to try this. I would be curious what TT heads think of this comparing to their turntable. Don't have any so can't compare.
I've just compared MQn to my two record decks.
MQn 2.53 SSE4 intel rax cp is very good! I compared to 301/London Reference/Vinyl Song phonostage and Salvation/Transfiguration Spirit/Nighthawk phonostage. The 301 fared worst, the bass wasn't as detailed and didn't spread across the soundstage, detail levels were down, some of this will be due to the Vinyl Song but the VS suits the Ref best so it's what I use. Salvation/Spirt/NH was very similar in overall detail to MQn and really very similar overall. If anything MQn was more controlled but there's f-all in it in overall SQ and emotional connection.
I have always wanted to hear a trans-fi salvation such an interesting deck and value too, if it beat your 301 seems my suspicions were right .
Some lovely stuff you have Clive.
Paul
Thank Paul. I'm pretty much settled on my system though I will always consider cartridge options and phonostages.
The 301 was improved considerably with the NWA bearing but even so the Salvation when compared directly is a more accurate deck extracting more from the groove. As a starting point the Salvation is ideal, it you want a soft romantic sound or bleading edge details then use a suitable cartridge and phonostage to deliver what you need. The 301 has more of a signature of its own so it's not quite so tuneable.
MQn is just amazing, to get 16/44.1 playback this good without esoteric kit and it being comparable to top flight deck is tremendous.
Glad Clive it is not just me having issues with HP laptops. But sure who cares once 2.53 exists. A year chasing perfection with Jplay with zuma,linear supplies/batteries and 2012 core server on usb keys and this guy comes out of nowhere and develops a program that is simply perfection. If he retires now it doesn't matter as the legacy I think will be very hard to beat.
Really hope he gets hi res to work for my JKCUíNAS Dac. It is surreal that what seems a very simple program can perform at such a high level.
Have just run version 2.59 on an Intel i7. This is a bit spooky. I am currently playing from memory in Foobar with Fidelizer. MQn is better - not a hang of a lot but clearly better. The soundtrack to the movie Amalie has a track where there a lot of triangles. For the first time I could hear that they do not always decay evenly. I don't know who this guy is but he seems to proving that less is more.
StanleyB
07-10-2013, 06:47
The soundtrack to the movie Amalie has a track where there a lot of triangles. For the first time I could hear that they do not always decay evenly. I don't know who this guy is but he seems to proving that less is more.
Which track exactly is it? I wouldn't mind listening to it via my BM2.
Try La Valse D'Amélie (orchesta version) - should be Track 11. Vibraphone, not triangles, they have lovely overtones and a long decay.
sbgk the developer of MQn has been banned from the CA (Computer Audiophile) forum! Can't for the life of me see how he could have upset anyone. His posts on this development can be found at http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2418
StanleyB
08-10-2013, 05:50
Try La Valse D'Amélie (orchesta version) - should be Track 11. Vibraphone, not triangles, they have lovely overtones and a long decay.
Thanks. I shall try to get my hands on it.
sbgk the developer of MQn has been banned from the CA (Computer Audiophile) forum! Can't for the life of me see how he could have upset anyone. His posts on this development can be found at http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2418
They banned me as well and made a big scene of it after I questioned some of the claims surrounding async USB. So I suspect that it is a site protected by commercial interest such as advertisers. Many others also operates a similar scheme in order to protect their commercial interest holders. The only free and fair way left on forums to learn about new ground breaking products, and for up and coming developers to get a chance to let the world know about it, now appears to be just The Art of Sound. No wonder that search engines list AoS at the top of their searches when someone is looking for technical information on many HIFI related products. It puts the credibility of a lot of these audio related forums at stake.
The owner of jriver posted on the thread at CA a few hours ago. His views on players are well known; bit perfect ones all sound the same but somehow his sounds the best....
It seems he's a friend of the owner of CA. My strong suspicion is that jriver's commercial interests are behind what happened.
StanleyB
08-10-2013, 08:39
When the performance to cost ratio of my TC-7510 started to get noticed I had a lot of bad and fake claims made about me in order to stop my sales in its tracks. Those negative claims are still used till today by people as a reason why they won't buy a DAC from me. So mud sticks and commercial interests can be used to get rid of competition, especially better and cheaper ones.
If I knew the guy at MQn I would have told him to come over here at AoS and get a far better and fairer forum to explain his concept.
Thanks. I shall try to get my hands on it.
They banned me as well and made a big scene of it after I questioned some of the claims surrounding async USB. So I suspect that it is a site protected by commercial interest such as advertisers. Many others also operates a similar scheme in order to protect their commercial interest holders. The only free and fair way left on forums to learn about new ground breaking products, and for up and coming developers to get a chance to let the world know about it, now appears to be just The Art of Sound. No wonder that search engines list AoS at the top of their searches when someone is looking for technical information on many HIFI related products. It puts the credibility of a lot of these audio related forums at stake.
Wasn't there a bit more to the CA situation than that Stan?
I haven't found the CA forum to be anything but helpful tbh in my tinkering in computer audio.
Commercial interests aside (which every manufacturer has I guess...), forums are all about sharing knowledge, which you do really well, with posting info on dac mods etc.
Its true though as you say that some products are pushed on various forums.
Shame about the guy getting banned there, been out the loop for a while and not read the thread.
MQn was good, and its great to see someone trying something different.
StanleyB
08-10-2013, 09:58
Wasn't there a bit more to the CA situation than that Stan?
The AoS member Labarum pointed me to a specific topic on that forum and asked me to join and offer my views on the subject that was being discussed. That's exactly what I did. The fact that I am Stanley and well known for having alternative views is however a thorn in the side of many other developers and product sales people. So even if I discuss the weather on Mars I would be called a shill by some.
There is nothing more to the situation. You can PM Labarum and ask him if have reason to question my honesty in any shape or form.
Shame about the guy getting banned there, been out the loop for a while and not read the thread.
MQn was good, and its great to see someone trying something different.
He's been "un-banned" such was the outcry as he was in some ways the victim. The damage has been done to the thread on CA so the topic continues on Tir Na instead.
What's in the past is in the past Stan.
ancient history.
I've no reason to question your honesty mate.
The AoS member Labarum pointed me to a specific topic on that forum and asked me to join and offer my views on the subject that was being discussed. That's exactly what I did. The fact that I am Stanley and well known for having alternative views is however a thorn in the side of many other developers and product sales people. So even if I discuss the weather on Mars I would be called a shill by some.
There is nothing more to the situation. You can PM Labarum and ask him if have reason to question my honesty in any shape or form.
That's good he's back on.
Tir Na's a great forum Clive, only came across it recently.
StanleyB
08-10-2013, 10:36
What's in the past is in the past Stan.
ancient history.
I am Spartacus, but not many people know that :). It's old history.
Frankyc2003
08-10-2013, 11:57
I must be really thick, because I have a Sony VAIO i5 8GB and 720Gb HDD, but absolutely no way its producing any sound...
I play successfully via USB to my rDac otherwise via Jriver, Foobar, WinAmp...
The bit that doesn't make sense to me in the instructions is the added lines in the .bat
cd c:\[location of the folder containing MQn elements]
I am not so sure where it goes in the MQn.bat designed to support FLAC...
any clues from you guys?
Much appreciated!
Ta
I am Spartacus, but not many people know that :). It's old history.
No, I'M Sparticus... :)
sq225917
08-10-2013, 13:46
My, someone has a short memory.
Stanley, Do you think you were banned from headfi for being controversial, or for having the same ip address and sharing cookies with multiple different user accounts?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/333695/about-to-pull-the-trigger-on-a-beresford-tc-7510
http://www.head-fi.org/t/333695/about-to-pull-the-trigger-on-a-beresford-tc-7510/75
StanleyB
08-10-2013, 14:00
My, someone has a short memory.
Stanley, Do you think you were banned from headfi for being controversial, or for having the same ip address and sharing cookies with multiple different user accounts?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/333695/about-to-pull-the-trigger-on-a-beresford-tc-7510
http://www.head-fi.org/t/333695/about-to-pull-the-trigger-on-a-beresford-tc-7510/75
If I remember correctly, we were referring to Computer Audiophile. I had no idea that the discussion was about head-fi. Can someone clarify where exactly the developer of MQn was banned?
I must be really thick, because I have a Sony VAIO i5 8GB and 720Gb HDD, but absolutely no way its producing any sound...
I play successfully via USB to my rDac otherwise via Jriver, Foobar, WinAmp...
The bit that doesn't make sense to me in the instructions is the added lines in the .bat
cd c:\[location of the folder containing MQn elements]
I am not so sure where it goes in the MQn.bat designed to support FLAC...
any clues from you guys?
Much appreciated!
Ta
Hi Francois,
Initial setup issues are not unusual. I've not tried the version for flac as I use wavs. It might be easier to get it working with a test wav file to begin with. The flac version requires sox to be present to convert flac to wav, hence it's easier to test it out to begin with with a wav. Don't have the wav in c:\musicplayer but have all the MQn files in there and check .bat file points to that directory.
sq225917
08-10-2013, 14:50
He elected to leave CA after a discourse with Chris the founder. Now he's elected to come back.
Yes, we were referring to CA, but I was bringing up relevant info pertinent to your claims of being dealt an unfair hand at CA. No doubt you were dealt an unfair hand at Headfi as well and the claims made for multiple posters from the same IP and shared cookies (same pc) are also untrue.
Frankyc2003
08-10-2013, 15:38
Hi Francois,
Initial setup issues are not unusual. I've not tried the version for flac as I use wavs. It might be easier to get it working with a test wav file to begin with. The flac version requires sox to be present to convert flac to wav, hence it's easier to test it out to begin with with a wav. Don't have the wav in c:\musicplayer but have all the MQn files in there and check .bat file points to that directory.
Cheers Clive,
Does it matter where on C: the folder lies.
Also does it matter what the folder is called? Do I need to call it musicplayer?
I usually quite alright with a little bit of hands on approach, but this one really got me confused!
I guess it's so BARE, you can hardly notice anything is going on!
Probably why it sounds so good to everyone...
Thanks
Hi Francois, it shouldn't matter where the folder goes but I had problems when it wasn't c:\musicplayer even though the cd command in the .bat was correct..or so I thought. When it doesn't work there's not much to tell you why!
Frankyc2003
08-10-2013, 16:08
Actually, I might have misunderstood,
But what is the correct procedure to read a WAV file with MQn...
The readme.txt isn't 100% clear.
Thanks and apologies for my obvious ignorance!
Frankyc2003
08-10-2013, 16:13
Hi Francois, it shouldn't matter where the folder goes but I had problems when it wasn't c:\musicplayer even though the cd command in the .bat was correct..or so I thought. When it doesn't work there's not much to tell you why!
ahaha! yes spot on... small footprint!
Actually, I might have misunderstood,
But what is the correct procedure to read a WAV file with MQn...
The readme.txt isn't 100% clear.
Thanks and apologies for my obvious ignorance!
Select the filename (or directory with a list of wavs) then right click and copy.
Frankyc2003
08-10-2013, 16:20
and then I just double click MQn.bat?
:scratch:
and then I just double click MQn.bat?
:scratch:
yes
Frankyc2003
08-10-2013, 16:45
yes
thanks!
Off to test the procedure!
:)
My, someone has a short memory.
Stanley, Do you think you were banned from headfi for being controversial, or for having the same ip address and sharing cookies with multiple different user accounts?
http://www.head-fi.org/t/333695/about-to-pull-the-trigger-on-a-beresford-tc-7510
http://www.head-fi.org/t/333695/about-to-pull-the-trigger-on-a-beresford-tc-7510/75
Simon,
With respect, we're simply not interested in what happened on head-fi (especially when it's old news that has already been dealt with), so please don't bring that stuff onto AoS. Cheers! :)
Marco.
I must be really thick, because I have a Sony VAIO i5 8GB and 720Gb HDD, but absolutely no way its producing any sound...
I play successfully via USB to my rDac otherwise via Jriver, Foobar, WinAmp...
The bit that doesn't make sense to me in the instructions is the added lines in the .bat
cd c:\[location of the folder containing MQn elements]
I am not so sure where it goes in the MQn.bat designed to support FLAC...
any clues from you guys?
Much appreciated! Ta
Francois, the instructions are not exactly user friendly.
First start off without using Jriver, Foobar, WinAmp... So no software, only a 'Dos Box' will come up - now that will take you back!
Second, the "[location of the folder containing MQn elements]" is a folder you create. I created a folder c:\MQN . Then I put the four files into that folder. Then I edited the line "cd c:\musicplayer" to read "cd c:\MQN"
Third start off by playing files that are 16 bit 44.1 Khz (this is where I am up to at the moment). There are reports of CD quality being easier to play than Hi-Res.
Also you need to consider if you are running the correct versions of MQnPlay and MQnControl
The current iterations of the MQnPlay file: (1) MQnPlay 2.60 sse4 intel - 8 (2) MQnPlay 2.60 sse4 intel - 8 4 (3) MQnPlay 2.60 sse4 intel
If that does not work then it may be a laptop issue. I don't know why this should make a difference but the CA thread has some mention of that.
Finally you could post on Tir Na. When the author was on CA he was answering individual queries.
Frankyc2003
08-10-2013, 21:59
Much appreciated Andrei.
I fell like I have hit a brick wall...
Tried everyting...
But that doesn't matter as iSonata (JRiver tarted up) works a treat for me.
It was sheer curiosity since the software created quite a sensation on a few forums :eyebrows:
I will rest at peace though, knowing that my system is still playing the Chesky Ultimate Test tracks with flying colours (at least to my ears :ner:)
Good Night!
Are people still experimenting with this player on this forum? versions now up to 2.71.
Clive still does I no longer go down the laptop route myself but I heard at a friend and really like it
Are people still experimenting with this player on this forum? versions now up to 2.71.
Yes I am keeping up and am following the thread on the Tir Na forum and will be trying a few 2.71 variations tomorrow. It is absolutely astonishing what Sbgk is doing; do you know who he is?
I've yet to try this weekend's versions, aside from that I'm still very much an MQn user.
Yes I am keeping up and am following the thread on the Tir Na forum and will be trying a few 2.71 variations tomorrow. It is absolutely astonishing what Sbgk is doing; do you know who he is?
Gordon is his name and he is UK based. I assume without asking him that he is in my age profile (over 50 sadly)
His work is great and the output is phenomenal. We all know it is basic in design but the SQ is generally sublime. Works for me anyhow.
Followed his stuff back in my squeezebox days, he was constantly trying to push what was possible, and good on him for doing so.
All we need is MQn to have a Jriver type interface.... :)
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