Orbscure's search for audio nirvana

[orbscure]

Imagine it 1989 chaps and you've just purchase a Meridian 206 CD player... other than the matching it with existing Meridian kit of the day, if you were looking to connect this player with other manufactures high end and similarly priced amp/pre-amp and stand mount speakers of the day, what would you have using or chosen? Reason I ask is that I have a spare Meridian 206 player and would like to use this as the basis to build a second redium sized room system using the kit of the day - which in theory - should be relatively cheap and easy to source today...

Thanks in advance :)

Cheers
Pete

[orbscure]

OK... lets try a different tack... what would you recommend as good cost effective partners for the 206?

Cheers
Pete

[Puffin]

The perfect partner for a 206

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i239/saxonsex/peugeotpartner_zps3a5f9161.png

[walpurgis]

Any and I mean any, Theta DAC. The dearer the better, but all of them give great results with the 206.

[istari_knight]

I probably would have paired it with Naim 42/110 or 72/140 & Royd Edens... Not now though :lol:

[orbscure]

Thanks for the suggestions chaps... is there anything from back in the day that you would be happy to use now?

[DSJR]

You have a huge problem here in that Meridian just couldn't stop tinkering with their products, altering the sonic 'feel' almost with every batch - the rep used to advise replacing demo stock every visit because of the internal tweaks and changes. The 500 series was the same, an early 506 sounding very different in comparison to a later sample (Linn did the same in the 90's with the Karik and Numerik). Used as a transport while the mech is still working wouldn't be a bad idea possibly though.

[walpurgis]

Thanks for the suggestions chaps... is there anything from back in the day that you would be happy to use now?

As in what, amps, DACs, speakers?

[orbscure]

From me first post ;)


other manufactures high end and similarly priced amp/pre-amp and stand mount speakers of the day, what would you have using or chosen

[walpurgis]

From back then. To go with the 206. What about a Lentek integrated amp and a pair of Sonus Faber Electas.

[orbscure]

Great stuff Geoff, just the sort of feedback I'm looking for... ;)

[Wilbur]

Always had nice results with a Quad 44/405 set paired with Monitor Audio R852's....about right for 1989 I think?:scratch:

[orbscure]

Cheers Paul... I'm actually on the cusp of purchasing a pair of Monitor Audio R352's, but I'm desperately trying to hold off until I plump for an amplifier. The R852's are a good suggestion, so off to see what I can find. I have a feeling that the Quad 44/405 might be above my budget... but you never know...

Incidenatlly, does anybody have a .pdf of a hi-fi magazine from 1989 or 1990? I'd love to see what was on the market back then...

Cheers
Pete

[orbscure]

I've managed to snap up a Quad 305 power amplifier and 34 control unit so am just now looking for some vintage speakers to finish off this second room system...

[pjdowns]

Maybe consider an Audiolab 8000a or 8000c / 8000p both of the same vintage... otherwise maybe an Exposure X integrated...

Not sure on speakers but know that the Epos ES11 are good and from the same timeframe... or Neat Petite (although they have to be carefully positioned) if my memory serves me correctly :)

P.

[orbscure]

Thanks Paul... any other members suggestions for speakers that aren't going to break the bank would be very much appreciated...

[prestonchipfryer]

Ruark Talisman Mk. 1. Had a pair driven by a Quad 34/606 and liked the sound. Also had a the Meridian 206/263 units at the same time.

[istari_knight]

Pretty much anything from SD Acoustics would be worth keeping an eye out for... SD3's & SD3R's do come up for under £100 every now & then...

[orbscure]

Top stuff chaps... my Quad 305 power amplifier and 34 control unit has safely arrived and I'm currently running it with my second Meridian 206 player bi-wired to a pair of small Ruark Epilogues... sounds very nice indeed and can't wait to find something bigger to drive :)

[vinylspinner]

How about a very clean pair of Mordaunt Short MS 500 Gold speakers with stands £50 collected, these don't come up for sale very often.

Nigel

[orbscure]

Like these Nigel?

http://audio-heritage.jp/MORDAUNTSHORT/speaker/ms-500.html

I'd be interested but... unfortunately for me, I don't drive and am in South London/Surrey :(

[vinylspinner]

Yes, same model as those, anyone speak Japanese?

Where in Surrey are you?


Nigel

[orbscure]

I'm based in Caterham-on-the-Hill, off Junction 6 on the M25...

[orbscure]

Super pair of Ruark Templar speakers have been added to the Meridian 206/Quad 306/34 combination and some CableTalk 3 bi-wire is in the post... just one last (simple) question... the Templar's came without spikes, so can anybody confirm if they 6mm threaded spikes?

[walpurgis]

You have some decently revealing components now. Unfortunately the 34 pre-amp is not one of them. I've heard this unit and feel your 206 and 306 deserve better. The little 306 is a musical little power amp and I think it would give you very nice results with a valve pre-amp. I reckon that combination would get your Templars singing.

[orbscure]

Gone then Geoff... suggest away :)

[walpurgis]

I'd think something from Croft may suit. The Quad 306 is used by a few AOS members and they may have experience of pairing it with suitable non Quad pre-amps. Personally I have a feeling that the EAR 834L would sound fantastic with the 306, but the 834L are getting harder to find second hand and are rapidly going up in price.

[orbscure]

Thanks again Geoff... I think that the EAR 834L might be out a little too expensive for my budget... but what about a Croft Acoustics Micro 25?

[walpurgis]

Not used that particular one.

[orbscure]

I think I may wait until I have enough pennies for the Croft Micro 25, the next step up from the Basic...

[walpurgis]

It may also be worth looking at Conrad Johnson pre-amps. They are well enough made and sound very nice, even the old bottom of the range PV10 variants.

[Macca]

The Templars have a bung at the back base of the cabinet - you can open it up and fill the chamber with bags of sand. You probably knew that already but if not it's a cheap tweak to try.

[orbscure]

Many thanks chaps... more food for thought... so it appears that around £700 will start me of on my voyage of valve pre-amp discovery...

[Spectral Morn]

Imagine it 1989 chaps and you've just purchase a Meridian 206 CD player... other than the matching it with existing Meridian kit of the day, if you were looking to connect this player with other manufactures high end and similarly priced amp/pre-amp and stand mount speakers of the day, what would you have using or chosen? Reason I ask is that I have a spare Meridian 206 player and would like to use this as the basis to build a second redium sized room system using the kit of the day - which in theory - should be relatively cheap and easy to source today...

Thanks in advance :)

Cheers
Pete

Hi Pete

This kit is from in and around your stated time period give or take a couple of years.

Audio Innovations Series 1000 pre, First or Second Audios, Audio Note ANV Silver cables, Snell K speakers.

Or Audio Innovation Series 300 integrated amplifier, Snell Ks

Audio Innovations Series 500, Proac Super Tablets or Proac EBTS on very heavy matching Target R1 stands.

Good cabling from the time would also include Deltec Black Slink, interconnects and speaker cable.

Personally I didn't like the Meridian sound at the time but a Meridian CD player, pre and active speakers was quite futuristic and impressive looking and better than the equivalent B&O set up.

I went with Marantz CD players at the time moving from a CD273SE to a CD65SE then a CD85 and finally a CD94mk2.

Plenty of other great kit from the time Aragon, Deltec, Jeff Rowland, Klyne, Audio Research, Conrad Johnson, EC Audio, DNM, early Primare such as the 928 pre and matching power amps (hard to fix though) http://pic6.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/image?preatran&1314371625&pic&class&i/c/f/1298457414.jpg&Primare-928

Regards Neil

[orbscure]

Many thanks for such an expansive list of recommendations Neil, very much appreciated :)

[orbscure]

As way of an update for those that may be interested, despite my having to move outside the date related box in my original post, I think I may have finally bottomed out my music listening system:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/VM%20Issues/9EF5C789-EA6C-4A51-AAA5-292708B5F81A_zpspx5t1m7n.jpg

I've settled for the following:


Rega ACOS with original Lustre arm & AT95e cart
Meridian 206B transport
upgraded Bushmaster MK.II with Anker Astro Pro2 battery
Quad 306 + Croft Micro 25 Basic
Yamaha KX480 cassette deck
Rogers LS6a/2 (MKII)
Mark Grant Van Damme Black bi-wire

I have to say that it sounds very good indeed... but I suppose that if I were looking any any additional upgrades, the turntable and cassette decks would be next on the radar - but that's for the future...

Cheers
Pete

[istari_knight]

Looking good :thumbsup:

The Acos Lustre isn't bad at all IMO - I changed the motor suspension belt on the Planet I've been using & it made a huge difference... As did upgrading the ball bearing to ceramic ;)

[orbscure]

:) Thanks James... is with the help of guys like your good self that I've got where I am... as for the Rega, I still have concerns with what I perceive as speed issues, in that it appears to run just a tad slow. I yearn for a TT which plugs in and works without any problems, thus doing some justice to what little of my vinyl collection has survived replacement by CD then .mp3...

[istari_knight]

Mine ran slow before changing the bits over... Runs slightly too fast now :doh:

Maybe time to get a Technics ? :eyebrows:

[orbscure]

I've never considered a Technics TT James... I've always seen them as something for DJ's... Outside of the SL-1200's, what are other good current & vintage Technic TT's worth keeping an eye out for?

[istari_knight]

The SL-150 can take different arms, most seem to be fitted with SME3009's... Alternatively the SL-10 is supposed to be rather special.

http://www.thevintageknob.org/technics-SL-10.html

That said, there's little wrong with a 1200/1210 even in stock form they'll eat budget Rega's for breakfast IMO.

[Marco]

I've never considered a Technics TT James... I've always seen them as something for DJ's...

:wowzer: :wowzer: ***MISINFORMATION ALERT!!!*** :wowzer: :wowzer:

Pete, have you studied the history of the SL-1200 properly or read the Techiepedia section of the forum? ;)

Marco.

[istari_knight]

:wowzer: :wowzer: ***MISINFORMATION ALERT!!!*** :wowzer: :wowzer:

Pete, have you studied the history of the SL-1200 properly or read the Techiepedia section of the forum? ;)

Marco.

:exactly:

[orbscure]

Thanks chaps...

:ner::ner: ***MY HUMBLE OPINION ALERT !!!*** :ner::ner:

Cos that's all it was Marco... purely based on my interaction with a pair belonging to a DJ friend many years ago ;)

Having said that... I may have to see if I can source a decent example in black...

Pete

[Marco]

Lol - just a bit of banter, dude! :eyebrows:

If you want to read up a bit on what is possible from an SL-1200 or 1210, then check out the Techiepedia:

http://theartofsound.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?46-The-Techiepedia

That should rid you of this DJ nonsense...! ;)

Marco.

[orbscure]

Even though one man's banter can be another man's extracting the urine... I joined here to learn and I'm always happy to be shown the errors of my ways... :) Anyway, I've just made an offer for a black SL-1200 MK2, so we'll see what happens :eyebrows:

[Marco]

No worries - good luck with it. Plenty of help will be at hand here if you need it :)

Marco.

[istari_knight]

:thumbsup:

I'll be shopping for one too once funds allow.

[orbscure]

Thanks chaps... :)

[agk]

Enough about decks already. If this is 1989 someone pass me the pills and let's get raving!

[Marco]

Fancy a jelly?

Marco.

[agk]

Ah Realistic Pro2's in the boot and off we go to the meet :)

[orbscure]

Well... they've arrived, but not without courier related issue, as the eagle eyed amongst you might notice from the top front corner on the left hand speaker :doh: :( :rolleyes:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/IMG_1769_zpsayb6nrvp.jpg

I'm in discussion with the seller about what we do now and if the damage is repairable and the insurance covers the costs, I may keep them... Having connected them up with some surplus low grade speaker wire and they sound very good indeed, despite the courier related damage... out of interest, what would you guys do?

[Macca]

If I was you I'd sell them to me for a nominal amount ;)

But failing that I'd just live wth it, or if the OCD got to much I might stain it the same colour just so it wasn't catching my eye all the time.

[orbscure]

:lol: one man's nominal amount Martin would be another man's "how bloody much?!? ;)

I do plan to keep them, I just hope that the insurance amount covers the external repair. I did plan to have them tidied up anyway and from looking around the .net, the crossovers will need a recap too...

[Mika K]

I might be bit biased but keep'em.. :)

[orbscure]

Having seen yours Mika, I can understand why :) I'm just running mine now and they do sound very good indeed. A very different sound to my ProAcs, but a very nice sound nonetheless...

Incidentally, does anybody have any UK based recommendations for custom made boxes? I only want the two, but everywhere I've tried thus far only offer minimum quantities of between 10 and 25!

[walpurgis]

They look nice Pete.

Keep them, but certainly ask the seller for a realistic part refund because of the damage. It was his responsibility to get them safely to you. The repair should not be too difficult. If you get stuck, I may be able to assist.

[User211]

Now that is annoying. They survived well for years and them some idiot...

Anyway, glad they sound great. They kind of look as though they should. Enjoy, but I would look to get it sorted, especially if I really liked them.

[orbscure]

But what can you do chaps? Its not as if the guy hadn't packed them well... at the end of the day you can't watch over somebody packing them for you and then your very much in the hands of the courier too. At least he had them insured, so any repair work should be covered. Indeed, an AoS member is actively helping me in that direction so all is not lost. My plan for them was to get them restored externally, check out internally and recapped anyway, so I very much plan to keep them and when completed, give them a chance to do what they do best :)

Another interesting factoid... according to the seller, this pair were originally installed at CBS Studios in Chicago and he brought them over to the UK because he loved them so much!

[Mika K]

Known history for your own speakers is always nice! My JBLs were at one studio located in Stockholm and have seen e.g. sessions by Abba.. :eek:

[DSJR]

I'd do my best to get the cabinets sympathetically repaired. Check out the crossovers, get the biggest amp you can for them (fugg the limp wristed domestic efforts) and have a blast. Apparently, the bigger the amp, the better they sound :)

[Marco]

If I was you I'd sell them to me for a nominal amount...


Much as I love Pete’s new speakers, as everyone should know that I’m a big JBL fan (and I wish Pete many hours of happy listening with them), I doubt that they’d be universally better than your Akais; in fact it’s most likely, in that respect, it’d be very much a case of ‘swings and roundabouts’.

The key things are that Pete’s room looks to be a reasonably ‘normal’ shape, and yours isn’t, plus he has his speakers on proper stands! ;)

In your current state of system dissatisfaction, I'd love to pop down to your place, armed with some suitable speaker stands for your Akais (and a few other bits and pieces), and set your system up again from scratch, by totally stripping everything out and starting again, using the experience I’ve gained over the years in how to get the most out of kit, simply by applying certain system set-up techniques, and I guarantee you, mate, that by the time I left, you’d be back listening to choons, with a big smile on your face!

:exactly:

When you’ve got some spare time (we’d only need a full day at it) why not take me up on my offer?

Marco.

[struth]

looks to be a fairly simple repair tbh. shouldnt cost much

[Marco]

Hi Pete,

Just one comment I’d make, I presume that your speakers are positioned where they are because of a lack of space? If not, they would sound much better without all your kit stuck in between them, and/or at least pulled out a bit further forward.

Placing kit (furniture or anything) in between speakers is always a bad idea and ruins/confuses their imaging ability. Also the vibration kicked out by the speakers being so close to the kit will adversely affect how the whole system sounds, so ideally, if you can, one or the other should be on a separate wall, with the kit properly supported on a dedicated rack or racks. I realise, of course, that this may not be possible - just a suggestion! :)

Regarding, the damage to your speakers, I’m sorry, for me (accepting as a given that all couriers are, by nature, careless and inconsiderate twonks), the fault lies with the seller, who may have packed them well, but simply not WELL enough!!

If those speakers had first of all been wrapped in corrugated cardboard, with corner protectors put on them, then suitably ‘mummified’ in umpteen rolls of heavy-duty bubble wrap, and finally placed inside VERY strong boxes, that damage, quite simply, would NOT have happened.

Essentially, when you send items like that, you have to pack them with the goal of them surviving a ‘direct nuclear hit’ (because couriers won’t give a f*ck) - i.e. you *must* go totally OTT with the packaging, to counteract their [most likely] shameful mishandling, in the hands of the courier, which the seller clearly didn’t do.

That’s why on the very rare occasions I send items like that, I invest in and use proper packing material, not simply whatever I’ve got lying around the house. Essentially, it’s all about doing everything you possibly can to ensure that whatever someone has bought from you, gets to them in the same condition it left you in, and in that respect, the seller fell short.

That said, he seems like a decent enough guy, so I’m sure you’ll be able to resolve the matter to your mutual satisfaction. Keep us posted! :cool:

Marco.

[orbscure]

My heart did sink when I opened the box... but what can you do? Having chatted with the seller, he was heartbroken with the damage. Sure, with hindsight, he should have packed them better, but there is also a responsibility for the carrier to treat our kit a hell of a lot better than they do. Having seen what he used to pack them, I'm pretty sure that if they had been handled properly, they would have arrived with no damage.

But what's done is done and my long term plan is to have the damage repaired, new veneer applied, to get the crossovers recapped and have modern binding posts fitted. Even if I then decide to move them on, there is no reason why they can't get another 50+ years of service and that is my ultimate aim. I did a quick Google search to see if I could find out any more about their time in the CBS Studio but didn't find very much. Once the dust has settled with the insurance claim, I'll ask the seller more. As I mentioned in the Kenrick thread, the seller was a former member of the band Roundabout (which later became Deep Purple) and he later played bass in a band called Choice...

With regards their current positioning, I popped them up on the stands and positioned them purely as a temporary measure just to get them running. As I should imagine (especially given the size and position of the drivers) they certainly image completely differently to my ProAc's and will need quite a bit of tinkering to find the ideal position. But as we all know, that's all part of the fun! :D I am also in the early stages of having a bespoke oak rack being made which will then enable the speakers to be positioned in a more accommodating position. I'll also then be able to use some decent speaker cable, rather than two spare pieces with stripped ends spring bound in the back of the JBL's.

[Marco]

My heart did sink when I opened the box... but what can you do? Having chatted with the seller, he was heartbroken with the damage. Sure, with hindsight, he should have packed them better, but there is also a responsibility for the carrier to treat our kit a hell of a lot better than they do. Having seen what he used to pack them, I'm pretty sure that if they had been handled properly, they would have arrived with no damage.


I don’t doubt that for a second. However, as I said, the onus is on the seller to address and pre-empt the effects of any mishandling by the courier, as the fact is, rightly or wrongly, the latter is almost inevitable. If you’re sending delicate items of that nature, without the original packaging, then you really must invest in alternative packaging that's designed to protect them in a similar way.

Those, I’m afraid, are the cold hard facts of the matter.

I know I might be coming across here as ‘picky', but as a seller, I’d be pissed off as much as the buyer, if what I’d sent him or her didn’t get there safely, and felt that with a little more diligence I could've prevented it… Perhaps it’s because I run my own business (care about the service I provide to customers), and as such, my brain is ‘wired up’ that way! :)


But what's done is done and my long term plan is to have the damage repaired, new veneer applied, to get the crossovers recapped and have modern binding posts fitted. Even if I then decide to move them on, there is no reason why they can't get another 50+ years of service and that is my ultimate aim. I did a quick Google search to see if I could find out any more about their time in the CBS Studio but didn't find very much. Once the dust has settled with the insurance claim, I'll ask the seller more. As I mentioned in the Kenrick thread, the seller was a former member of the band Roundabout (which later became Deep Purple) and he later played bass in a band called Choice…


Sounds like a good plan, and the provenance also makes them a little sexier.


With regards their current positioning, I popped them up on the stands and positioned them purely as a temporary measure just to get them running. As I should imagine (especially given the size and position of the drivers) they certainly image completely differently to my ProAc's and will need quite a bit of tinkering to find the ideal position. But as we all know, that's all part of the fun! I am also in the early stages of having a bespoke oak rack being made which will then enable the speakers to be positioned in a more accommodating position. I'll also then be able to use some decent speaker cable, rather than two spare pieces with stripped ends spring bound in the back of the JBL's.

All good stuff, dude.

Building a good system, isn’t just about the boxes and speakers; it’s fundamentally about setting it all up properly, and that means investing some appropriate time and effort (and a little money) into the ‘unsexy’ bits, such as cables, mains leads, mains ‘infrastructure’, equipment supports, etc, as that’s the only way you’ll ever be able to hear what the boxes and speakers are truly capable of!

Marco.

[Mika K]

Good plan, echoed!

[Macca]

Much as I love Pete’s new speakers, as everyone should know that I’m a big JBL fan (and I wish Pete many hours of happy listening with them), I doubt that they’d be universally better than your Akais; in fact it’s most likely, in that respect, it’d be very much a case of ‘swings and roundabouts’.

The key things are that Pete’s room looks to be a reasonably ‘normal’ shape, and yours isn’t, plus he has his speakers on proper stands! ;)

In your current state of system dissatisfaction, I'd love to pop down to your place, armed with some suitable speaker stands for your Akais (and a few other bits and pieces), and set your system up again from scratch, by totally stripping everything out and starting again, using the experience I’ve gained over the years in how to get the most out of kit, simply by applying certain system set-up techniques, and I guarantee you, mate, that by the time I left, you’d be back listening to choons, with a big smile on your face!

:exactly:

When you’ve got some spare time (we’d only need a full day at it) why not take me up on my offer?

Marco.

Marco, kind offer, I really do need to get to grips with the issues I am having, although I am inclined to suspect the speakers as the culprit since the quality of the system has definately declined over the last several months despite the fact that none of the components or cables have been changed. Could be the crossovers deteriorating, more investigation is needed. Not sure about the stands, though, I think you will find they are better without. Anyways we will chat about it elsewhere :)

Pete - please excuse the off topic.

[orbscure]

Pete - please excuse the off topic.

No worries Martin... were all searching for our own audio nirvana and I wish you every success with locating yours ;)

[Marco]

Marco, kind offer, I really do need to get to grips with the issues I am having, although I am inclined to suspect the speakers as the culprit since the quality of the system has definately declined over the last several months despite the fact that none of the components or cables have been changed. Could be the crossovers deteriorating, more investigation is needed. Not sure about the stands, though, I think you will find they are better without. Anyways we will chat about it elsewhere :)

Pete - please excuse the off topic.

No problemo. We could find out if the speakers are to blame if I brought down my 66s… Anyway, yes, let’s chat about it elsewhere and leave Pete to chatting about his own stuff.

Marco.

[hifi_dave]

Lovely speakers. We sold loads of them back in the 90s, those and the occasional pair of 4344 for people with space. Great for rock n Blues, especially at high volume. Shame that JBL isn't promoted in the UK..:doh:

[Reffc]

Lovely speakers. We sold loads of them back in the 90s, those and the occasional pair of 4344 for people with space. Great for rock n Blues, especially at high volume. Shame that JBL isn't promoted in the UK..:doh:

Agreed Dave, but JBL do sell a lot of speakers in the UK. Trouble is, they're mainly the small plastic cased monitors and PA speakers. The USA is such a big market for their more hifi or higher end studio gear, they probably don't feel the need to export to our tiddly little island.

The 4311's are a good speaker. Shame really that we don't see more of them.

[The Black Adder]

is that a Densen DM-10?

I loved my Densen...

[orbscure]

Its a DM20 Jo.... not only did it dislodge a Croft Micro 25 Basic from my rack, it sounds bloody good too! :)

[The Black Adder]

Yeah... those olde Densens (IMO) have a much nicer sound to the new ones... Great set up!

[Reffc]

The J4311's should be with me tomorrow, so I'll add a photo or two of the restoration process as it progresses under the RFC news thread.

[Reffc]

Well, speakers received and upon unpackaging, lovely as JBLs are, these are a little sorry looking! Pete has entrusted me to get them as new for him so the plan is to strip down, check everything, sort the cabinets (including reveneering), check and sort the crossover (if anything needs touching), replace the binding posts for something that can be used with spades/banana plugs and manufacture new grilles as the originals are in pieces.

Photos will be uploaded to the RFC blog later today for those interested in following a complete loudspeaker restoration.

The good news for Pete is that I have safely removed all drivers and checking them, not only are they in great shape after a visual inspection but the mid drivers are the best of the lot fitted to the 4***/L** series, the Alnico magnet equipped LE-5/2's. HF are also the better paper coned items.

The bass an mids have been designed with their acoustic roll-off slopes designed into the speakers themselves by virtue of their natural acoustic behaviour at roll off. Whilst these are still far from ideal in terms of roll-off profile, it does mean that no inductors to sap efficiency are required, just a cap for the mid roll on and another for the tweeter roll-on. The variable potentiometers for "brightness" and "presence" mean also that the mid/tweeter are not especially phase accurate since variable L-pads have the effect of changing corner profile on crossover slopes which in turn affects individual phase angle at crossover. No big deal, but it can be a little too audible with some designs. These sound Ok on first listen but mids are severely recessed perhaps indicating that the electrolytic cap for the mid has dried up and ESR has rocketed. Some testing will confirm. Potentiometers for these are no longer available, so fingers crossoed these are ok but if not, RS components may well have some 8 Ohm variable L-pad potentiometers that can be substituted if required.

[BTH K10A]

but the mid drivers are the best of the lot fitted to the 4***/L** series, the Alnico magnet equipped LE-5/2's. HF are also the better paper coned items.


???????

[orbscure]

As part of the excellent restoration work being undertaken by Paul/RFC on these 4311's (which is being documented by Paul here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26397-RFC-News/page66)) we now find ourselves possibly looking for the front labels. I have found somebody in the US who does the aluminium labels for the 4311A series on eBay here (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250861164944) but they won't ship across the pond. Unless somebody has a UK/European solution (vinyl printing?) is there somebody here in the US who would be kind enough to buy these for me and then send them to the UK? I'm more than happy to transfer of sufficient funds via PayPal Gift or Bank Transfer before you buy... :)

[Moko]

I just found your thread about the JBL's you might like to have a read of mine here at http://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=19561.0 as I've just gone through a lot of what you have

[orbscure]

Thanks for that David, a good read for a wet Sunday afternoon... Paul @ RFC has been working on mine and the superb progress he's made can be seen from post #650 here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26397-RFC-News/page65) and the good news is that they'll be back with me by the end of next week... :)

[Moko]

It will be interesting to hear what you think the crossover changes make.... They look great in that oak finish

[The Black Adder]

They do look mighty fine, Paul... Nice one! :)

I'm thinking of getting some Celestion DL8's soon as a second system. Wouldn't mind to know if those cabs could be improved.

[Reffc]

They do look mighty fine, Paul... Nice one! :)

I'm thinking of getting some Celestion DL8's soon as a second system. Wouldn't mind to know if those cabs could be improved.

Thanks Joe.

Most commercially available mass produced loudspeakers can be improved because the margins on new mass produced gear always demand limits to manufacturing costs, hence resources/quality match investment. How far one goes depends on the value one ascribes to the improvements. There's usually a limit to what an individual considers worthwhile unless the speakers are of great personal value or rare vintage when monetary value is less important than conservational improvement as such speaker pair rarely get sold on. A point is normally reached where the cost of doing the work exceeds the value of a better pair of speakers to begin with so it's usually worthwhile keeping that yardstick as a balance check.

[The Black Adder]

I seem to remember looking inside the DL8's at once stage.. It looked pretty cheap to be honest, but still sounded great. I'm sure they could be improved upon by even making them a little larger as I'm sure that within the domestic market, the size of units are all calculated for shipping costs.

[orbscure]

Well.. the finished speakers arrived with me today from Paul @ Reference Fidelity Components (http://www.referencefidelitycomponents.co.uk) and are simply stunning, not only with their gorgeous finish, but also with how they sound:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-05-01%2014.51.58_zpsz5mdpi88.jpg
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-05-01%2014.52.31_zps6mbe2ef3.jpg
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-05-01%2015.01.08_zpszrtfbg2n.jpg
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-05-06%2009.26.59_zpsumxb9und.jpg
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-05-01%2017.35.59_zpszsb6z8ec.jpg

My thanks to Paul for his dedication, time and support with this project... another vintage set of speakers will now survive for another 50+ years and that just has to be a good thing :cool:

...and if I needed any unbiased clarification, me mother visited not long after I’d got them set up and she prefers the 4311’s to my current ProAc’s without any question whatsoever... perhaps that says it all really, after all, Mum does always know best! :)

[RichB]

Lovely....

Something tells me you're going to be cockahoop when your amps arrive, that is if you're not already.

[walpurgis]

Hi Pete.

That SM-70 Pro should be a great match to the JBLs.

I see you've chosen to use them upside down. Smart move, that's what I'd do.

All you need now is a TVC pre-amp to drive the Monarchy! :D

(what amps are getting? Bet they won't beat the SM-70 Pro)

[orbscure]

Many thanks chaps...

With regards them being upside-down, there appears to be some conjecture as to what is best... but since they only arrived at 230pm today, this is how they've been since they were manhandled onto their stands. I plan to try them sitting on their sides over the weekend, but I'm just thoroughly enjoying them as is at the moment... :)

[montesquieu]

Didn't know you were Australian?

[struth]

Ive got that very table i think. not currently using it but my srm tt used to sit on it.:) not sure i could live with the writing upside down though..it would irritate me somewhat. but can understand the sonics would probably be better this way... loveky job and you both have to be commended

[orbscure]

I've got a nest of three Grant, but its only a temporary solution as I have a bespoke oak AV rack being made by Alistair @ Woodendal (http://www.woodendal.com) as we speak, plus I'm also looking at some oak speaker stands on eBay. I agree about the upside-down writing, but the sonic improvement of the midrange transducer and high frequency direct radiator (JBL's terminology, not mine!) being above the low frequency loudspeaker, outweighs the aesthetics... I've also just wired them up to my Monarchy power amp with some Belden 9497 speaker wire swapped with Tom/montesquieu and they sound fantastic...

[oldius]

I would be interested in these if you decided to sell

[orbscure]

Your second on the list Geoff... funnily enough, I bought them in their original condition from a guy in your part of the world... but I tell you what, I'm currently loving every single minute they have music playing from them... :)

[orbscure]

Obi-Wan Geoff Walpurgis will be happy... we've chatted on and off for the past few years, generally with my questions regarding the various speakers I've been looking at or which I've ended up using. From time to time, he'd suggest that I try a pair of Tannoy's and at some stage, the seed must finally have been sown and taken root. Not that I'm at all unhappy with, or are they pencilled in to displace my superbly RFC restored JBL4311's, but today I took delivery of these HPD/315/8 equipped Tannoy Chevoits, intrigued to find out what all the fuss was about...

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-09-07%2018.44.49_zps2as9qcot.jpg

Crikey... talk about chalk and cheese! I really don't know what to make of them, especially in comparison with the JBL's... but I'll certainly be giving them a couple of weeks to bed in and see if they win me over...

:popcorn:

[Barry]

A neat and tidy system Pete. Nice, very nice! :)

[walpurgis]

I deny everything! :D

At least you've got the tweeter controls in the right place.

Yes. There will no doubt be a little 'acclimatisation' required. Room positioning may be a factor and if you get boom, foam port bungs can help.

You'll definitely find the mid presentation far different to the JBLs. Once you attune to them, you should find that you can hear deep into the ambience of the recording and the little details and echoes that most speakers miss seem to make themselves apparent.

[Zoidburg]

Blimey they look the bizznizz :-)

[Idlewithnodrive]

That set-up looks dead nice Pete :)

[orbscure]

Many thanks for your kind words chaps... I know you've probably heard it from countless members before, but given the limits of what I can and want to spend, I really feel that I'm almost there...

Yep... the Tannoy's certainly are a different beast altogether. My ears have become attuned to the weighty bass of the JBL's, whilst in comparison, the dryness of the bass from the Tannoy's initially makes me feel like something is missing... but its early days. Having said that, there is certainly more emphasis on the mids and highs. I also get more of a feeling of being surrounded by the music with a discernible difference (improvement?) in stereo imagining. I do perhaps also think that getting the Tannoy's up a bit higher might help. The JBL's were 500mm above the floor on their custom stands, with the bass drivers listening position almost level with my head. Taking the Tannoy's up, say 150/200mm might make a difference. Indeed, I'm sure I've seen the "raise them off the floor" suggestion here on AoS before... but in the meantime, I'll leave them be and see how I get on with them... :)

[walpurgis]

My Cheviot IIs are about 9 inches off the deck. Putting the tweeter axis in line with my ears when seated. Just how I like it!

They sound bloody marvellous :).

[julesd68]

Yep I also found that the treble presentation was really helped by getting my Chatsworths on suitable stands ...

[Michael loves music]

Very nice indeed

[RichB]

There's no keeping up with you mate but that system does look smashing and thats my pc desktop too!

I still want those big jbl of yours though...:eyebrows:;)

[hermit]

You have two lovely sets of speakers there. I hope you don't have to choose between them but rather have the time and space to build a second system.

[orbscure]

There's no keeping up with you mate but that system does look smashing and that's my pc desktop too! I still want those big jbl of yours though...:eyebrows:;)

You know what its like Rich, we're all searching for our own versions of audio nirvana and by putting these into my system primarily to satisfy an itch to scratch, they really have put the cat amongst the pigeons. I had a really good 4 hour listening session last night which finished off in the small hours with the 192/24 HD download of Roger Waters "Amused to Death" and the amount of detail I could hear, in comparison with the JBL's, was a real eye opener. In fact, if I didn't do myself a mischief lifting the Tannoys and JBL's in and out of where they sit, it'll be good to compare the two. I'll have a more detailed play and compare at the weekend, but in the meantime, I'll continue to check out the Tannoys... :popcorn:


You have two lovely sets of speakers there. I hope you don't have to choose between them but rather have the time and space to build a second system.

I think I'm going to find myself at an audio crossroads Paul, albeit, its a really nice position to be in. Having spent a small fortune on getting the JBL's repaired/restored, a new crossover fitted and custom stands made, I wish I could find a way to keep them if I decide to stick with the Chevoits. However, a lack of space and a dislike of having surplus kit sat around means that some lucky person may end up with a super pair of JBL's and bespoke stands... :D

I certainly agree with Geoff and his suggestion to raise the Tannoy's up off the floor, so I'm very much open to suggestions on how to achieve this in a cost effective manner... I'm also looking for a single circular Tannoy name badge...

[dowser]

First instance - a couple of breeze blocks, or IKEA tables :) If they sound better, then worry about something nice? Tannoys are on my wish list too.

[struth]

By circular do you mean ovals or a full circle...not seen them

[orbscure]

Yes Grant... its the circular badges and having had a look elsewhere, they seem to be as rare as hens teeth :)

I'm also still looking for a cost effective way to get these babies 200-300mm off the deck too, so all suggestions very much appreciated...

[struth]

Yes the 4 breezeblocks is a solution. you can coat the outside with something eye friendly if they work. I did something similar and wrapped the offending article in black acoustic foam which ended up looking rather good. They were dollys ..you know the things that are on wheels. you get them round and square. not really solid enough so I think the blocks would be a good start. The acoustic foam sheet you can buy easy enough. its about 6 mm thick and looks very smart.
if you cant find a single round then try for 2 ovals. at least they will be the same(badges)

[walpurgis]

Tip to anybody considering the use of breeze blocks or concrete blocks as supports. Bear in mind, they will almost certainly contain moisture and if left on wood floors or carpet, mould and rot can occur. I've had it happen.

[orbscure]

Cheers Grant... I've been looking for wood solutions and hadn't even considered brick... I think I have some breezeblocks sat in the garage, so I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can find the little blighters... As a temporary measure, I've given myself a hernia and lifted them onto a pair of 400mm Atacama stands, albeit, they are too high now... I'm going to leave them be for now and listen to some choons :)

[walpurgis]

By circular do you mean ovals or a full circle...not seen them

As on this pair of Eatons (lovely little Tannoy the Eaton)

http://i58.tinypic.com/xo2npd.jpg

[orbscure]

They're the ones Geoff... one of my grill/grilles is missing their badge. I know its nothing more than decoration and it might be my OCD kicking in, but it looks bare without it...

BTW: do you need to toe your Chevoits in by very much? I know there are individual room and seating related factors to take into account, but I certainly get a much better overall sound the further in they are positioned. They are certainly toed in much more than my JBL's ever needed to be...

[struth]

Tip to anybody considering the use of breeze blocks or concrete blocks as supports. Bear in mind, they will almost certainly contain moisture and if left on wood floors or carpet, mould and rot can occur. I've had it happen.

I wood expect to put something inbetween to act as a barrier, yes. not just for damp but to produce a better surface



As on this pair of Eatons (lovely little Tannoy the Eaton)

http://i58.tinypic.com/xo2npd.jpg

Ah, yes I remember them now. Prefer the ovals, but if they are going in top corner then those do look better.

[walpurgis]

Yes. I toe them in so the tweeter is pointed straight at me. Some people say that makes Tannoys too bright or harsh. But this is normally down to choices of partnering equipment or the condition of the crossovers. Even speaker cables have very audible effects with these.

[walpurgis]

Tip. If you're scouring eBay for badges. Look at grilles too. They sometimes come with the badge on and don't cost any more as a rule.

None on there at the moment. I just looked! ;)

[orbscure]

Cheers Geoff... good tip re the badges :)

Interesting note on speaker cable. Due to the fiddly push button connections on their rears, I'm having to use some butchered Mark Grant van Damme blue with bare ends. I'd like to use something thicker, but I just wouldn't be able to connect them...

[struth]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hi-Fi-2mm-Audio-Pin-Connector-Adaptor-2x-Banana-Plug-Spade-Cable-PJ101-/161719358219

[brian2957]

Sounds like these are keepers Pete :)

No way to fit 4mm binding posts ?

[orbscure]

Spot on Grant... where there's a will, there's a way! :cool:

[walpurgis]

Cheers Geoff... good tip re the badges :)

Interesting note on speaker cable. Due to the fiddly push button connections on their rears, I'm having to use some butchered Mark Grant van Damme blue with bare ends. I'd like to use something thicker, but I just wouldn't be able to connect them...

Thicker cable is not necessarily better. I have a variety of cables. Some of them hefty, but I'm currently using Transparent Audio Musicord, which is pretty skinny at around 6mm, but it sounds great!

[orbscure]

Sounds like these are keepers Pete :) No way to fit 4mm binding posts ?

Its still early days Brian... I like what I'm hearing, but its going to take some time to re-tune the fleshy appendages on the side of my head to take into account the difference in bass reproduction :) With regards the binding posts, I'll cross that bridge if I decide to keep them. I may also pack them off to Paul @ RFC so that he can sprinkle some of his magic dust on them... ;)


Thicker cable is not necessarily better. I have a variety of cables. Some of them hefty, but I'm currently using Transparent Audio Musicord, which is pretty skinny at around 6mm, but it sounds great!

All understood Geoff... I've tried some Belden 9497 and van Damme Blue and will stick with the latter for the time being :)

[brian2957]

Pete , if you want I can make you up something like this to try http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?lookup=1&region=UK&currency=GBP&pf_id=5704&customer_id=PAA0846091015347QZSIPDPFOYKFRLPW

[orbscure]

Thanks for the kind offer Brian... let me see how I get on with the 2mm banana plugs recommended by Grant first and I'll be in touch if required then ;)

[brian2957]

You have PM Pete .

[RochaCullen]

System is looking good Pete. How are you getting on with your new amps? I hope you are enjoying them!

[orbscure]

Other than not being used to any of my amps/monoblocks running warm (not hot, just warm), they're doing a cracking job Nathan... :)

[orbscure]

After a root about in the garage, I rescued four decent sized breezeblocks and as per Geoff's earlier suggestion, I've created temporary stands by sandwiching them between two pairs of slate plates. This means that the Chevoits now sit around 240mm up off the floor and the drivers are now closer in line with my head:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-09-09%2019.35.31_zpsdaurrmzf.jpg

[struth]

That should do the job nicely

[orbscure]

I really do hope so Grant... having nearly done myself another mischief lifting them off the Atacama stands and then back onto the breezeblock stands, I think I'll just sit back and enjoy them... Never has a speaker been such a pain in the arris to lift and move... :lol:

[walpurgis]

Never has a speaker been such a pain in the arris to lift and move... :lol:

Stop complaining. They only weigh 60 pounds each. :D

[orbscure]

If only they'd cost me that much Geoff... :lol:

[walpurgis]

If only they'd cost me that much Geoff... :lol:

I could say the same. Bought them at a sensible price, but the refurb & surrounds added a reasonable amount, even though I did the work myself.

[orbscure]

I was fortunate that mine came to me having recently been "professionally re-foamed"... I must say that having found a much better height to sit them, I'm really warming to their sound. I was streaming my fav radio station last night and they sounded very nice indeed...

[walpurgis]

I was fortunate that mine came to me having recently been "professionally re-foamed"... I must say that having found a much better height to sit them, I'm really warming to their sound. I was streaming my fav radio station last night and they sounded very nice indeed...

Yes. I noticed that the surrounds look decent.

[montesquieu]

Getting the tweeters to ear height with DC tannoys is an absolute must.

A big part of their appeal is their nature as a point source, while the construction means they are 100% in phase. To make the best of those features you really need to get the positioning right.

Having said that the front port/vents most of them have mean they aren't too fussy about space at the back/near rear walls etc.

When Paul was designing my Canterburys we took measurements of the couch and my seating height to get this positioining correct (these used HPD315a drivers, same as in your cabs I think).

http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x440/montesquieu61/cant-1_zps27591d8f.jpg

[orbscure]

Your quite correct Tom, mine are indeed equipped with HPD/315/8's and getting them up by 240mm has made all the difference... the only disappointment is being sat at work and not enjoying them :)

[orbscure]

You have PM Pete .

Unfortunately, the 2mm banana plugs sourced via eBay were too big too... but thanks to Brian's ingenuity and kindness, until I find the time (and money) to have proper binding posts fitted, I now have the super convenient connectors seen below attached:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/2015-09-11%2017.12.34_zpsffu6dzus.jpg

...and these allow me to connect any of my pre-made banana plugged cables... :)

Cheers Brian :cool:

[brian2957]

Nae bother mate , glad they worked for you :)

[orbscure]

I'm still acclimatising myself with the Chevoits... but would anybody have any suggestions as to why one of my Mullard ECL82 tube equipped AudioNote P-Zero monoblocks is running warmer than the other? Its not so hot that I can't touch it, but there is a definite difference between the two. It wouldn't be anything to do with the 8w push/pull class AB monoblock into the 60w/89dB/8Ω Chevoits - or is it just the nature of valve equipped monoblocks?

[walpurgis]

Don't know why one would be warmer than the other, but 8 watts is a bit limited when it comes to Tannoys. My 4 watt 6v6 amp will drive them, but they leap into life once the SM-70 Pro's 25 watts feed them. Yes. I know that on paper we're talking about something like a 4db difference, but it's the delivery that makes the difference. The extra amps in hand count! My 15 watt EL34 monos also grip the Cheviots tightly and cope with peaks superbly.

[montesquieu]

I'm still acclimatising myself with the Chevoits... but would anybody have any suggestions as to why one of my Mullard ECL82 tube equipped AudioNote P-Zero monoblocks is running warmer than the other? Its not so hot that I can't touch it, but there is a definite difference between the two. It wouldn't be anything to do with the 8w push/pull class AB monoblock into the 60w/89dB/8Ω Chevoits - or is it just the nature of valve equipped monoblocks?

PP for Tannoys is better than single ended but 8w is a wee bit ambitious if you want to get everything you can out of the HPD drivers. I'd be looking at 35w-40w upwards (you can get away with less for Golds). There was an Audio Innovations 800 kicking around recently (not sure if it was on here) that would be ideal.

Can't explain the temperature differential though.

[orbscure]

Many thanks for the feedback chaps... I did think it might be a bit ambitious, but having said that, I'm getting super sounds from the combination... I may grab my Restek monoblocks from the spare bedroom and give them a go...

[struth]

Pete have switched the monos over to see if its the same amp or if its being caused by the speaker?

[walpurgis]

Many thanks for the feedback chaps... I did think it might be a bit ambitious, but having said that, I'm getting super sounds from the combination... I may grab my Restek monoblocks from the spare bedroom and give them a go...



Smart move, although the top end with the Resteks might be a little unforgiving. I may be wrong though. They should certainly have enough grip and drive.

[orbscure]

Pete have switched the monos over to see if its the same amp or if its being caused by the speaker?

I did Grant... swapped the left warm monoblock with the cooler one on the right and the right monoblock become warmer... but it wasn't so warm I couldn't hold/touch it...

I've now swapped out the P-Zeros and am having a listen with the Restek MAMP's driving the Chevoits... :)

[walpurgis]

The Resteks may sound a bit ruthless and two dimensional with the Cheviots until they warm up. Give it an hour and see how they're sounding.

Then we'll be expecting a full report of your impressions! :D

[struth]

Sounds like one of the speakers is harder to drive. Might be worth checking out if your keeping them. May not be an issue with higher o/p amps though

[orbscure]

The Resteks may sound a bit ruthless and two dimensional with the Cheviots until they warm up. Give it an hour and see how they're sounding. Then we'll be expecting a full report of your impressions! :D

They were indeed Geoff, initially very rough around the edges... but having just been out for a cycle, after I've had a shower, it'll be over an hour they've been on, so I plan to vegetate for the rest of the day and take in some chilled choons... :)


Sounds like one of the speakers is harder to drive. Might be worth checking out if your keeping them. May not be an issue with higher o/p amps though

I totally agree Grant... if I decide to keep them, the long term plan was to have Paul/RFC look at them anyway... but its going to be a really hard decision choose between the Tannoy's and the JBL's, especially with how much work & effort Paul/RFC put into getting them into the super condition they're in now...

[orbscure]

The Resteks may sound a bit ruthless and two dimensional with the Cheviots until they warm up. Give it an hour and see how they're sounding. Then we'll be expecting a full report of your impressions! :D

After a couple of days listening.. although the AudioNote P-Zero/M-Zero is a fine sounding trio Geoff, I do have to say that substituting P-Zero monoblocks with the Resteks MAMP's (still using the M-Zero pre) takes is to another level...:eek:

However, as I'll need to keep the P-Zero and M-Zero as a trio, this now leaves me without a pre-amp, so if anybody has any suggestions around £700, please fire away :)

[Gazjam]

*cough* Densen

[orbscure]

He's keeping it Gaz... it was nothing more than three of the clips holding the main PCB to the chassis being broken... :doh:

[walpurgis]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Promitheus-Audio-ReferenceTVC-passive-preamp-prometheus-/252013268113?hash=item3aad294c91

[brian2957]

[QUOTE=orbscure;685015]He's keeping it Gaz... it was nothing more than three of the clips holding the main PCB to the chassis being broken... :doh:[/QUOTE

That's a shame Pete . Are you keeping the Tannoys in the system ?

[orbscure]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Promitheus-Audio-ReferenceTVC-passive-preamp-prometheus-/252013268113?hash=item3aad294c91

I did see that Geoff... I may make him an offer, but I'd also welcome any other non-passive suggestions :)



Are you keeping the Tannoys in the system?

At the moment Brian, I'd say that they are... but having put my money into and my faith with Paul/RFC working his magic on the 4311's, I'm finding it difficult to make the final decision... but something has to give and although my heart says JBL, my head (and ears) says Tannoy...

[struth]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Promitheus-Audio-ReferenceTVC-passive-preamp-prometheus-/252013268113?hash=item3aad294c91

Ive got one of the older models..terrific pre amp.

[orbscure]

I'm sorely tempted Grant, especially as Geoff has waxed lyrical something rotten about them to me in the past ;)

[walpurgis]

It is not strictly a passive pre-amp. There is an amount of gain. Most TVCs I believe offer around +6db. The presentation is nothing like a true stepped attenuator or pot type passive. Being with mine at least, very punchy and absolutely clean. The transparency is in a league I've not come across before. I'm thinking of getting an LDR device to see if that takes things further.

[walpurgis]

Review here: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/promitheus-tvc.html

It's of one of the Promitheus models, but could just as easily be of my MC-9.

[orbscure]

Cheers Geoff... I've got the eBay listing you recommended earlier saved and am looking about at other options.. As an aside, have you seen this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/promitheus-Signature-TVC-transformer-volume-control-preamplifier-mono-pair-/252063390729)?

[walpurgis]

Cheers Geoff... I've got the eBay listing you recommended earlier saved and am looking about at other options.. As an aside, have you seen this (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/promitheus-Signature-TVC-transformer-volume-control-preamplifier-mono-pair-/252063390729)?

Yes. It looks rather interesting. I check all the TVC listings that crop up on eBay. May treat myself to another.

[montesquieu]

I had the top of the line Music First TVC, which does indeed have a +6db option (the transformer set is very similar to the Prometheus).

The was great in some combinations, but not in every:

First of all you need sufficient gain in the power amp .. if the Resteks were happy with the (very high gain) Audio Note, then I have a suspicion they may not be happy with a passive. Some power amps are simply better with an active preamp, and need the gain this brings to the party.

Second, your sources also need to work well with a passive. I found my Audio Note DAC was fine, but the Aurorasound Vida phono stage was not - it went from stellar to sleepy. Going active again fixed this instantly.

TVCs are not a panacea, they work well in some setups, less well in others and if I were you I'd try and hear one first.

In any case I'm not sure you need to think about the Audio Note kit as a 'trio', if you like the pre and it works well with the Resteks, keep it and sell the AN monoblocks.

[orbscure]

Thanks for that Tom... and I agree, in an ideal world, I'd much rather have an audition before shelling out the best part of £650. I've had other passive pre amps before (NVA P50sa, NVA P90sa and Icon Audio R) so to a greater or lesser degree, I know what I'm letting myself in for. The problem for me is that no part of my kit is ever constant, so what might have worked previously, may not work this time around.

My AudioNote M-Zero is doing a very good job at present in unison with the Restek's, plus it has the added bonus of a remote control. The thought behind listing the AudioNote kit as a trio was purely based on my thinking it would be more salable as a three rather than just a pair of monoblocks... but its food for thought nonetheless :)

[walpurgis]

Emporium Hi-Fi handle Promitheus in the UK and list on eBay.

They seem a pretty flexible company. Perhaps they have a 'loaner' you could try?

[Marco]

However, as I'll need to keep the P-Zero and M-Zero as a trio, this now leaves me without a pre-amp, so if anybody has any suggestions around £700, please fire away

http://www.goldpt.com/sa4.html

One will soon be landing at Marco towers :)

Marco.

[orbscure]

Indeed, I was reading the relevant parts of the stepped attenuator (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?40306) thread last night, so will of course be highly interested in your findings Marco... is yours the SA4 or SA4M?

[Marco]

SA4M, with dual-mono steppers. I'm hoping to discover another potential 'giant-killer' and AoS 'SPPV champion'! :)

Marco.

[orbscure]

Couple of changes to my system... one forced, the other through choice/intrigue/curiosity... :)

I've been having intermittent issues with my Young DAC which after having spoken to M2Tech in Italy and Keith @ Purité Audio (M2Tech UK Distributor) it seems that a battery issue with the Palmer PSU was to blame. So I now have a brand new Van Der Graaf Low Noise PSU (http://www.m2tech.biz/it/vandergraaf.html) which I've PX with the faulty Palmer PSU. Great service from Keith/Purité BTW, prompt email response and a the new PSU here next day :)

I've also received today a full set of Brian2957's MS Audio/Klotz MC5000 interconnects to fit between my CDP-DAC and DAC-Pre-Monoblocks... so an interesting weekend of listening beckons :popcorn:

[orbscure]

Yet another recent change of direction away from my experimentation with pre/monoblock amplification is the addition to the rack of an Audio Note Oto SE class A integrated amp...

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/BCC7C942-0796-46C8-81E1-5D222D65D070_zpsku6pibhb.jpg

This drives the Chevoits without any issues whatsoever and in conjunction with the cheap as chips Young DAC mod (as discussed here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?39955-m2tech-young-dac-observations)), a full set of Brian's excellent MS Audio/Klotz interconnects and some Chord Epic speaker cable, I have to say that at the levels of cash I'm able to spend, the sound is very nice indeed. I do have some custom speaker stands being made by the same chap on eBay who made my JBL4311 stands, so the temporary breeze blocks and slate jobbies will be replaced with something more sturdy and aesthetically pleasing in the not too distant future...

[Jimbo]

Yet another recent change of direction away from my experimentation with pre/monoblock amplification is the addition to the rack of an Audio Note Oto SE class A integrated amp...

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/BCC7C942-0796-46C8-81E1-5D222D65D070_zpsku6pibhb.jpg

This drives the Chevoits without any issues whatsoever and in conjunction with the cheap as chips Young DAC mod (as discussed here (http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?39955-m2tech-young-dac-observations)), a full set of Brian's excellent MS Audio/Klotz interconnects and some Chord Epic speaker cable, I have to say that at the levels of cash I'm able to spend, the sound is very nice indeed. I do have some custom speaker stands being made by the same chap on eBay who made my JBL4311 stands, so the temporary breeze blocks and slate jobbies will be replaced with something more sturdy and aesthetically pleasing in the not too distant future...

Hi Pete, where did you get your rack from and what make is it - very nice indeed.:)

[Macca]

Audionote and big Tannoys is a great combination. Audionote is my sort of sound, I can't afford their prices though :)

I like your rack (as the bishop said to the actress). Is that custom too? Apologies if this has been asked previously.

EDIT as in the post immediately before mine. Someone else with good taste I see :)

[orbscure]

Martin/James... always glad to pass on the details with regards my bespoke rack which was built by Alistair @ Woodendal and a link to his website can be found below:

http://www.woodendal.com

Its very much based on his Robar oak AV stand which can be seen here (http://www.woodendal.com/shop/oak-av-stand) but as you can see from the photo above, I had the legs on mine set in and I also supplied rosewood spikes and shoes like these (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4x-Rosewood-Wooden-Speaker-Copper-Tip-Spike-Cone-4x-Base-Pad-Isolation-TR4-/271691756554) which I sourced from eBay and he fitted these in place of the metal equivalents.. :)

[petrat]

Good choice of amp! I've never heard an Oto SE sound anything less than musical.

[orbscure]

Agree with you there Peter... Having paid more for it than I really wanted, it certainly enjoys playing at high volumes and as a result the Chevoits seem to be conveying the music even better than they did before too... :)

[Tarzan]

Good choice of amp! I've never heard an Oto SE sound anything less than musical.


With bells on- a great amplifier.:guitar:

[orbscure]

A couple of changes to report... the custom speaker stands made by Custom AV Furniture (http://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/custom-av-furniture) arrived this AM and as can be seen from the images below, they not only sit the Chevoits at my preferred height, they look great too:

http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/tCAp3_hCYVIDme5XuAfDO22tLkwXwTj2CX8TXx5vw_c_zpsfcn ok9dz.jpg
http://i589.photobucket.com/albums/ss333/LEMB/Hi-Fi/B7yDbWstr2QqO946jRMsioLfBAS7j7GQ557TXTVQQ7w_zpsgyg szvlo.jpg

Behind the scenes, the addition of the wonderful Audio Note Oto SE integrated has meant the 1m cables I had been using my with monoblocks were all too short, so experimentation with other speaker cable types has been taking place. As a stop gap, a pair of Belden 9497 cables had been doing a sterling job, but I decided to try some 1.5m lengths of Chord Epic cable. However, straight away this sounded nasally and horrid compared to the Belden, so after a week of hoping they'd improve, the Chord's quickly went and I'm now trying some Tellurium Q Black. This is sounding very good at the moment, so all appears to be good in the cable department, at least for the time being anyway :)

The next developments in the pipeline include the fitting of an ISOL-8 main conditioner and the testing of a pair of Tannoy Eaton monitors. The latter testing may come as a surprise to many here, especially with my waxing lyrical about how good the Chevoits are. But having chatted with Obi-Wan Walpurgis on the Chevoits and their close position relative to where I sit, a cheeky bid on eBay for a pair of Eatons proved successful, so I'll get the chance next week to see if, as Geoff suggests, they are an improvement on the Chevoits. So watch this space...

[struth]

Hope the stands are suitable for them too...they fit in very neatly. Youd think they were made for the job;)

[The Black Adder]

Coming together very nicely, Pete. I just know that will sound smashing! :)

[orbscure]

Hope the stands are suitable for them too...they fit in very neatly. Youd think they were made for the job;)

The footprint for the Chevoit is 446 x 260mm whilst the Eaton are 350 x 250mm, so they'll sit quite nicely on the new stands.. and aesthetically Grant, they look the dogs danglies too ;) All I need are some rectangular granite plates which match the larger footprint. The Argos sourced granite placemat/worktop savers are too small :doh:


Coming together very nicely, Pete. I just know that will sound smashing! :)

I was supposed to be going out to the gym Josie, but I'm sat here enjoying the whole set-up so much that I think I'll stay exactly where I am... the gym can wait until tomorrow ;)

[Gazjam]

Looking great Pete, how do the Tannoys sound moved further apart?
Just curious :)

Furniture looks great, like it.

[orbscure]

Thanks Gaz... wish I could move them, but limitations with the room means I'm stuck with what I have...

[The Black Adder]

The footprint for the Chevoit is 446 x 260mm whilst the Eaton are 350 x 250mm, so they'll sit quite nicely on the new stands.. and aesthetically Grant, they look the dogs danglies too ;) All I need are some rectangular granite plates which match the larger footprint. The Argos sourced granite placemat/worktop savers are too small :doh:



I was supposed to be going out to the gym Josie, but I'm sat here enjoying the whole set-up so much that I think I'll stay exactly where I am... the gym can wait until tomorrow ;)

lol... the Tannoys will make a couch potato out of you yet.... now order Pizza and get Shpongled. :)

[orbscure]

lol... the Tannoys will make a couch potato out of you yet.... now order Pizza and get Shpongled. :)

Many a true word spoken in jest Josie :lol: that's why this couch potato needs to get to the gym! ;)

[struth]

The footprint for the Chevoit is 446 x 260mm whilst the Eaton are 350 x 250mm, so they'll sit quite nicely on the new stands.. and aesthetically Grant, they look the dogs danglies too ;) All I need are some rectangular granite plates which match the larger footprint. The Argos sourced granite placemat/worktop savers are too small :doh:



I was supposed to be going out to the gym Josie, but I'm sat here enjoying the whole set-up so much that I think I'll stay exactly where I am... the gym can wait until tomorrow ;)

Dont put off till tomorrow what can be done today as tomorrow never comes:eyebrows: but as you lifted the tannoys I'll let you off

[Gazjam]

Many a true word spoken in jest Josie :lol: that's why this couch potato needs to get to the gym! ;)

Another idea for a system photo thread...belly selfies! :D
I'll start..
http://comicsalliance.com/files/2011/10/bldae19.jpg

[Barry]

Another idea for a system photo thread...belly selfies! :D

Ughh! No thank you.

[Gazjam]

Ughh! No thank you.

Wasn't serious? :scratch::D

[Firebottle]

That's just gross, in every sense of the word.

My belly's a bit hairy, might put people off :eek:

[Macca]

And my six pack will just make folk jealous.....

[walpurgis]

And my six pack will just make folk jealous.....

Still in the fridge for tonight is it? :D

[walpurgis]

Another idea for a system photo thread...belly selfies! :D
I'll start..
http://comicsalliance.com/files/2011/10/bldae19.jpg

You've put on a pound or two then. :lol:

[Gazjam]

Aye!
All the biscuits I get over at Brian's...(not).

Sorry Brian :)

[brian2957]

Hah ! I look after you when you're over boyo :spank:

Cakes an everyfin :rolleyes:

Me an the boys are gony eat all your food on Sunday :ner: