Isonoe feet for Technics SL 1200/10

[twotone]

Hi guys just received a set of these from a guy on the Wam.

Been wanting to try these but the price put me off however a set turned up on the Wam at the weekend and I snapped them up.

First of all let me say that I can totally understand why they're expensive cause compared to the stock Technics feet the Isonoes are in a different league in an engineering sense and of course they weigh much more than the stock feet which isn't apprarent when you look at the Isonoes on the various websites so probably at £28 per foot they're very good value for money.

Are they an improvement soundwise? Absolutely!

The improvement in sound is not even subtle it's a big big difference, a huge difference IMO.

I've just sold my Graham Slee phono stage so I'm back to the A&R integrated amp's on board phono stage and I'm now wondering, do I need an external phono stage?:eyebrows:

My impression of the sound is that instruments are in clear space now with lots of air or space around them, i.e. you can pick the instruments out or they stand out on thier own.

Piano sounds fantastic, really real, organic I think is the term, and drums are really nice too.

I'm no use at describing how sound sounds but that's how the music sounds to me now.

No doubt now but this is the best I've ever heard from my system.

For reference I'm playing a Columbia pressing of Kind Of Blue circa 1962ish, a very good copy IMO and I know it inside out.

I am a complete cynic with a lot of this hi-fi foo, I think people call it, but these feet and an Achromat are the real deal on a Technics deck IMO.

For anyone thinking about upgrading the deck and who doesn't want to spend huge amounts of cash then do yourself a favour and buy the Isonoes and the Achromat, both of them have cost me £150, a great investment I think.

Tony

[RobbieGong]

Hi guys just received a set of these from a guy on the Wam.

Been wanting to try these but the price put me off however a set turned up on the Wam at the weekend and I snapped them up.

First of all let me say that I can totally understand why they're expensive cause compared to the stock Technics feet the Isonoes are in a different league in an engineering sense and of course they weigh much more than the stock feet which isn't apprarent when you look at the Isonoes on the various websites so probably at £28 per foot they're very good value for money.

Are they an improvement soundwise? Absolutely!

The improvement in sound is not even subtle it's a big big difference, a huge difference IMO.

I've just sold my Graham Slee phono stage so I'm back to the A&R integrated amp's on board phono stage and I'm now wondering, do I need an external phono stage?:eyebrows:

My impression of the sound is that instruments are in clear space now with lots of air or space around them, i.e. you can pick the instruments out or they stand out on thier own.

Piano sounds fantastic, really real, organic I think is the term, and drums are really nice too.

I'm no use at describing how sound sounds but that's how the music sounds to me now.

No doubt now but this is the best I've ever heard from my system.

For reference I'm playing a Columbia pressing of Kind Of Blue circa 1962ish, a very good copy IMO and I know it inside out.

I am a complete cynic with a lot of this hi-fi foo, I think people call it, but these feet and an Achromat are the real deal on a Technics deck IMO.

For anyone thinking about upgrading the deck and who doesn't want to spend huge amounts of cash then do yourself a favour and buy the Isonoes and the Achromat, both of them have cost me £150, a great investment I think.

Tony


Nice one Tony - Welcome to the 'Isonoe Feet Club !!' :)

[Idlewithnodrive]

Hi guys just received a set of these from a guy on the Wam.

Been wanting to try these but the price put me off however a set turned up on the Wam at the weekend and I snapped them up.

First of all let me say that I can totally understand why they're expensive cause compared to the stock Technics feet the Isonoes are in a different league in an engineering sense and of course they weigh much more than the stock feet which isn't apprarent when you look at the Isonoes on the various websites so probably at £28 per foot they're very good value for money.

Are they an improvement soundwise? Absolutely!

The improvement in sound is not even subtle it's a big big difference, a huge difference IMO.

I've just sold my Graham Slee phono stage so I'm back to the A&R integrated amp's on board phono stage and I'm now wondering, do I need an external phono stage?:eyebrows:

My impression of the sound is that instruments are in clear space now with lots of air or space around them, i.e. you can pick the instruments out or they stand out on thier own.

Piano sounds fantastic, really real, organic I think is the term, and drums are really nice too.

I'm no use at describing how sound sounds but that's how the music sounds to me now.

No doubt now but this is the best I've ever heard from my system.

For reference I'm playing a Columbia pressing of Kind Of Blue circa 1962ish, a very good copy IMO and I know it inside out.

I am a complete cynic with a lot of this hi-fi foo, I think people call it, but these feet and an Achromat are the real deal on a Technics deck IMO.

For anyone thinking about upgrading the deck and who doesn't want to spend huge amounts of cash then do yourself a favour and buy the Isonoes and the Achromat, both of them have cost me £150, a great investment I think.

Tony

I've owned a couple of Techies and can't think of a better upgrade than feet (doesn't need to be Isonoes) and mat (Achromat pretty much essential) for the price, other than taking the PSU out of the deck and putting it into a separate box.

After that the law of diminishing returns certainly applies IMHO.

[twotone]

Thanks guys, I just didn't realise how much of an improvement the feet would make, I seriously thought it was a load of rubbish but clearly those guys who have done that mod can't all be wrong.

BTW, I did, being a cheapskate, try to buy the vantage feet but I never recieved a reply to an e-mail I sent them.

I have removed the internal PSU and installed the basic timestep PSU, I've also got a decent cart and I'm thinking about going down the stock re-wire route via AO or maybe trying to pick up a decent priced SH Jelco arm or similar.

I've an Arkless modded CA 640p phono on order too but I've no idea when that will appear but as I said, in the OP, my amp's phono is not too bad.

The Gram amp was much better than the on board phono stage no question about that but I could happily live with the integrated's phono stage.

Tony

[Idlewithnodrive]

Thanks guys, I just didn't realise how much of an improvement the feet would make, I seriously thought it was a load of rubbish but clearly those guys who have done that mod can't all be wrong.

BTW, I did, being a cheapskate, try to buy the vantage feet but I never recieved a reply to an e-mail I sent them.

I have removed the internal PSU and installed the basic timestep PSU, I've also got a decent cart and I'm thinking about going down the stock re-wire route via AO or maybe trying to pick up a decent priced SH Jelco arm or similar.

I've an Arkless modded CA 640p phono on order too but I've no idea when that will appear but as I said, in the OP, my amp's phono is not too bad.

The Gram amp was much better than the on board phono stage no question about that but I could happily live with the integrated's phono stage.

Tony

You seem to have already been well and truly hooked Tony :) , mind you, I am doing exactly the same at the mo with yet another Lenco :scratch:

The Timestep PSU isn't in the plinth is it ?

The Jelco's are a good match for the Techie (particularly the 750D) but you are now starting to get into 'upgrade the deck' territory IMHO.

[Clive197]

For anyone thinking about upgrading the deck and who doesn't want to spend huge amounts of cash then do yourself a favour and buy the Isonoes and the Achromat, both of them have cost me £150, a great investment I think.

Tony

OMG! What kept you, I did both of those 3 weeks ago. For another £35 or so you can add the Isonoe boots which brings cohesion and even more informative bass to the party.

[twotone]

You seem to have already been well and truly hooked Tony :) , mind you, I am doing exactly the same at the mo with yet another Lenco :scratch:

The Timestep PSU isn't in the plinth is it ?

The Jelco's are a good match for the Techie (particularly the 750D) but you are now starting to get into 'upgrade the deck' territory IMHO.

Hi Mike, no the PSU is seperate from the deck.

I bought it before I bought the deck simply because it came up for sale and then installed it, defintely made a difference but I don't think as much of a difference as the feet and mat although I did the PSU mod first so maybe not a fair comment.

Regarding the arm upgrade it's really down to money as I see it. A stock arm rewire is about £180 and a SH Jelco about £250ish but I've since read that the cable that comes with the Jelco arm is not great so probably nearer £350ish for arm and cable sans headshell, never ends doesn't it?:doh:

Speaking of headshells might treat myself to a Sumico, I've a stock Technics headshell on the arm at the minute.

I'm listening to a record right now, The Colour Of Spring: Talk Talk, absolutely fantastic:cool:

[twotone]

OMG! What kept you, I did both of those 3 weeks ago. For another £35 or so you can add the Isonoe boots which brings cohesion and even more informative bass to the party.

Hi Clive, I know mate but I did say that I am a cheapskate:lol:

You got a linky for those boots?

Thanks

Tony

[Clive197]

Hi Clive, I know mate but I did say that I am a cheapskate:lol:

You got a linky for those boots?

Thanks

Tony

Black boots are KINKY, so here is LINKY

http://www.isonoe.com/isolation-system.html

[twotone]

Black boots are KINKY, so here is LINKY

http://www.isonoe.com/isolation-system.html

Thanks Clive, interesting. Which ones did you go for, glass or standard?

[Idlewithnodrive]

Hi Mike, no the PSU is seperate from the deck.

I bought it before I bought the deck simply because it came up for sale and then installed it, defintely made a difference but I don't think as much of a difference as the feet and mat although I did the PSU mod first so maybe not a fair comment.

Regarding the arm upgrade it's really down to money as I see it. A stock arm rewire is about £180 and a SH Jelco about £250ish but I've since read that the cable that comes with the Jelco arm is not great so probably nearer £350ish for arm and cable sans headshell, never ends doesn't it?:doh:

Speaking of headshells might treat myself to a Sumico, I've a stock Technics headshell on the arm at the minute.

I'm listening to a record right now, The Colour Of Spring: Talk Talk, absolutely fantastic:cool:

Very good record to try it out on.

The main thing is that you like it and are listening to lots of choons :)

[Clive197]

Thanks Clive, interesting. Which ones did you go for, glass or standard?

Tony, my Techie sits on a 10mm glass shelf and while I liked the overall sound, I felt that the bass was a little lacking with the Isonoe's sitting on the shelf. Adding the standard boots brought the bass back. My Techie now ROCKS!:D

[twotone]

Tony, my Techie sits on a 10mm glass shelf and while I liked the overall sound, I felt that the bass was a little lacking with the Isonoe's sitting on the shelf. Adding the standard boots brought the bass back. My Techie now ROCKS!:D


These boys Clive?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Isonoe-Sorbothane-Boots-Set-4/dp/B0062Z0H1Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1378923584&sr=8-2&keywords=isonoe

[twotone]

Very good record to try it out on.

The main thing is that you like it and are listening to lots of choons :)

Hi Mike, yes I've been having a listening sesh this afternoon, most of the vinyl sounded excellent and better than I've heard before but one album that I did expect to sound amazing but didn't was one of the Tom Moulton remixes of PICS, (Harold Melvin & The Blue Notes The Love I lost etc) the record sounds fine but no big difference from before however that's good because that shows that I'm not just liking the feet because I spent money of them if you know what I mean.

[Clive197]

These boys Clive?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Isonoe-Sorbothane-Boots-Set-4/dp/B0062Z0H1Y/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1378923584&sr=8-2&keywords=isonoe

Kinky, or what! Those are the Bad Boys.:cool:

[Andrei]

KABUSA has the boots for US$55

[twotone]

Thanks guys.

Tony

[twotone]

Hi guys, just an update.

I've not bought the isonoe boots yet but fully intend to.

I've now been listening to all sorts of music this past week and with some music, jazz, the sound is nothing short of excellent however with some other stuff it's just simply great:lol:

Seriously I'm amazed the difference these things have made to my records/sound.

I'm still using the A&R A60 amp's phono stage but I do think that an external phono stage will make a big difference ( I wish I still had the Slee to compare right now) but I'm hoping that the Arkless phono stage will be with me by the end of the month (fingers crossed).

I'm seriously thinking about replacing the stock arm next though or at the very least having it fettled by Johnny at Audio Origami.

Cheers.

Tony

[6L6]

I'm seriously thinking about replacing the stock arm next though or at the very least having it fettled by Johnny at Audio Origami.


Have you considered a re-wire of the stock arm? It's a fantastic improvement and not particularly difficult - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26652-Rewiring-SL-1200-Tonearm&p=462165#post462165

[Oldpinkman]

I know science is a bit of a rude word on this forum, and there are lots of ears enjoying themselves, but these feet are not the obvious solution to isolation, which is of course a good suspended sub-chassis.
But sticking with techies, and just mechanical isolation from the turntable support, and completely ignoring airborne vibrations because we all listen on headphones or very quietly, sorbothane feet that small on something that heavy are at best what jeeves would have called a palliative, uunless you feel comfortable building the sort of tower block marco has been exhibiting on pfm.

I presume they are high durometer sorbothane for that small size and concentrated mass and will be relatively ineffectual at low frequencies. Or is downhill waterskiing making a comeback? :)

[Wakefield Turntables]

I agree with what you say, but, I don't think anyone has built a suspended plinth for the 1210 and this possibly Could be why the subject is not spoken about, not because we don't understand science, trust me there are many of us on this forum with several degrees in various sciences, kapish? Anyway, why not draw us some nice diagrams or point to some peer reviewed references to prove your point, I'd love to hear what you come up with :popcorn:

[Gordon Steadman]

I know science is a bit of a rude word on this forum, and there are lots of ears enjoying themselves, but these feet are not the obvious solution to isolation, which is of course a good suspended sub-chassis.
But sticking with techies, and just mechanical isolation from the turntable support, and completely ignoring airborne vibrations because we all listen on headphones or very quietly, sorbothane feet that small on something that heavy are at best what jeeves would have called a palliative, uunless you feel comfortable building the sort of tower block marco has been exhibiting on pfm.

I presume they are high durometer sorbothane for that small size and concentrated mass and will be relatively ineffectual at low frequencies. Or is downhill waterskiing making a comeback? :)

I for one, don't like suspended TTs as I have said before. I think you should accept that there is more than one way.............. (how I hate that expression, poor moggies)

My TT is solid. It sits on a solid rack on a suspended wooden floor. No feedback, no jumping as the floor is walked on, no isolation problems that I (or it has to be said, my able assistant) can hear. My previous deck just had sorbothane feet and it too was fine. Straight line thinking is not always the right solution in spite of the fact that I prefer science to mumbo jumbo.

[twotone]

Have you considered a re-wire of the stock arm? It's a fantastic improvement and not particularly difficult - http://theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?26652-Rewiring-SL-1200-Tonearm&p=462165#post462165

Hi Jim, just had another look at your thread thanks for that, yeah I could do that no problem (I did the external PSU install myself).

How much did the cable and stuff cost you if you don't mind me asking?

Tony

[Clive197]

I know science is a bit of a rude word on this forum, and there are lots of ears enjoying themselves, but these feet are not the obvious solution to isolation, which is of course a good suspended sub-chassis.
But sticking with techies, and just mechanical isolation from the turntable support, and completely ignoring airborne vibrations because we all listen on headphones or very quietly, sorbothane feet that small on something that heavy are at best what jeeves would have called a palliative, uunless you feel comfortable building the sort of tower block marco has been exhibiting on pfm.

I presume they are high durometer sorbothane for that small size and concentrated mass and will be relatively ineffectual at low frequencies. Or is downhill waterskiing making a comeback? :)

Richard, from your comments it is clear to me that you have never seen Isonoe Boots And are therefor talking rubbish.

My last TT was a suspended unit and I and the whole family had to walk very carefully past it when I was playing a record as the stylus would jump with the least provocation. This does not happen with my Techie which is rock solid, even when I walk heavily on my suspended floorboards (carpeted) near my HiFi.

I for one believe that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones, you repeatedly knock Techie's in any configuration but you own a Pink Triangle, which to the best of my knowledge has had adverse comments thrown at it from all directions.

[Oldpinkman]

I for one, don't like suspended TTs as I have said before. Straight line thinking is not always the right solution in spite of the fact that I prefer science to mumbo jumbo.

Isolation does more than stop your record skipping from a heavy footfall. It makes stuff sound pretty. It all comes back to the business that that poor diamond is trying to trace a series of tiny weeny groove movements, on a 'kin great mechanical structure. The stylus has no brain. It doesn't know whether it is moving relative to the cartridge body because a groove made it do it, or because a vibration made it do it. But if it is for the wrong reason it will "muddy" the water. Now, before Barry or anyone else tells me they don't have Muddy Waters, it is all relative. There may be several valid isolation systems, but some can be shown, by measurement and audition to be better than others. And the effect of vibrations on the sound from your record player is easy to demonstrate - I use a matchbox or similar

If I bypass the suspension on the PT by lowering the stylus "direct" to the plinth (I have to put a matchbox or other mechanical coupler in 'cos it won't reach that low on it's own) and I turn the wick up on the amplifier, and I talk close to the cartridge, I can start a howl-around effect. If I rest the stylus on the "floating" record, I cannot start a howl-around effect by talking to it. Actually, on headphones you can use the stylus on matchbox as a passable microphone. I think that good suspension is part of what makes the music I listen to sound "clearer" or "less muddy".

Recent auditioning with solid deck Mr K of Funk Firm caused him to conclude likewise, and investigate going back to suspended. That's not to say his solid decks sound rubbish. Just that somewhere in the mix a decent isolation system gives you a bit more, or - more accurately, robs you of a bit less. :)

This is the same reason - essentially that the Funk arms (or any other arms) sound so different. They have their own "colour" because they are affected by different resonances (among lots of other things of course). So if the arm is excited at a particular frequency it wiggles the cartridge at that frequency, whilst the poor old stylus, decoupled by a cantilever is "static" relative to the wiggling arm. The effect is a tone played by the cartridge, in the same way as if the cartridge was staying still and the stylus was being wiggled by the record groove playing a note. It is the relative movement of the stylus to the cartridge body that produces the sound (ok - electrical signal strictly at that stage). If you add in that sound you muddy the waters. And the amounts of energy involved are tiny. High frequency notes represent movements by the stylus of microns. It's a bloody miracle any noise comes out at all when you look at the mechanics of the thing - never mind the most sublime music. ;)

[Oldpinkman]

Richard, from your comments it is clear to me that you have never seen Isonoe Boots And are therefor talking rubbish.

My last TT was a suspended unit and I and the whole family had to walk very carefully past it when I was playing a record as the stylus would jump with the least provocation. This does not happen with my Techie which is rock solid, even when I walk heavily on my suspended floorboards (carpeted) near my HiFi.

I for one believe that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones, you repeatedly knock Techie's in any configuration but you own a Pink Triangle, which to the best of my knowledge has had adverse comments thrown at it from all directions.

Suspensions (usually floats) done badly are unstable - accepted. Do 'em properly
There is more to suspension than footfall - see my reply to Gordon
I don't care (as I think I have mentioned before) what other people think about PT's. I like mine, although I now have plans for mods to address some of its weaknesses
I do not repeatedly knock Techies. I point out that they are not very "HiFi" in standard form. This is almost universally acknowledged and endorsed by this forum, where everyone goes on a path to spend around £2000 (before arm) upgrading them to something better
I draw my conclusions about Techies from having listened to them very recently in direct comparison with my PT and other turntables - not from conjecture about what they sound like based on other solid turntables, incorrectly executed, which I had long ago

Perhaps you could clarify the rubbish I was talking about the Isonoes. I have seen the pictures posted. Are you saying they are low durometer sorbothane? That would make them squish flat and be fairly useless. Or are you saying they throw up a forcefield around the turntable that protects it from airborne vibration?

Referring back to Rexton - not being a scientist myself - I rely on experiences (the PT and the matchbox) and others. When I discussed it with AK he suggested a platform on springs, and I think, at the time, was contemplating one for his LSD. It should be possible to adapt that for the (heavier) Technics, with more, or stiffer springs. If you want to use sorbothane of lower durometer, then the solution I presume would be to spread the load, perhaps by having a sheet sandwiched between 2 solid sheets. Acrylic would have been the material I would have looked for as the solid "sandwich" bread, but glass, particularly damped glass, would be another candidate. Of course, you'd still need to put a lid around the whole shebang to protect from airborne vibrations.

[Clive197]

Richard, your waffling again.
1. Isonoe Boots are very thick and substantial and not only stop my stylus from bouncing about like a lame duck but also have a profound effect on the sound quality coming from my TT system. Waffling about force fields is very unhelpful and childish. Very not funny.

2. You DO repeatedly knock Techies.

3. I'm glad you like your PT , but have you considered that other analogue fans like their turntables, even though they may not be your cup of tea. You may notice that while I have opinions I try not to knock or criticise other members equipment only try to give advice based on my own experiences.

4. On a personal note, I have not spent £2,000 on my Technics. The arm that I purchased at the same time, Matt and feet came to a total of £950 + £550 for the SL1210M5G. The cartridge was purchased 18 months ago. The complete TT system is my pride and joy and the best turntable I have owned by a country mile.

As I have mentioned previously, I used to be in the trade before retirement and consider that I have trained ears. My hearing as tested recently was, I am told far better than the average for my age, other than a little Tinitus in my left ear, hence the hearing test.

[Frankyc2003]

sorry to budge in, but no, you don't need to spend £2K on a Technics to make it sound good.:lol:

I will take mine, which is an example amongst others, feel free to correct BTW...


Techie from ebay: £230
Upgraded Techie Arm (rewired, insulation): £90
Heavy Platter from Inspire Hifi: £100
KAB tonearm damper: £45
Externalized PSU: £30
Regulation Mod: £45
Isonoe Feet: £75 (second hand from a generous soul here at AOS)
And the most expensive of all Mike New's Bearing: £375 (second hand from a generous soul here at AOS)

TOTAL: £990

And the rest you can spend on pretty much any cartridge you like...

Bargain!!!

I know what you mean, people do tend to become militant about the kit they like, and that's understandable. But one has to apply the rules of objectivity as well. I personally hated suspended sub chassis, found them irritating and time consuming to setup for no real benefit... But again that's me.

Everyone likes different things, different sound signatures and types of colouration in their system.

In the end, objectively, Technics are as decent record player as any other... If it was cheap and easy to produce quartz locked motors for TT, trust me, no one would have bothered about rubber belts somewhere in Scotland around 1972... :sofa:

And now I will take my coat...:door:

[Canetoad]

Richard, your waffling again.
1. Isonoe Boots are very thick and substantial and not only stop my stylus from bouncing about like a lame duck but also have a profound effect on the sound quality coming from my TT system. Waffling about force fields is very unhelpful and childish. Very not funny.

2. You DO repeatedly knock Techies.

3. I'm glad you like your PT , but have you considered that other analogue fans like their turntables, even though they may not be your cup of tea. You may notice that while I have opinions I try not to knock or criticise other members equipment only try to give advice based on my own experiences.

4. On a personal note, I have not spent £2,000 on my Technics. The arm that I purchased at the same time, Matt and feet came to a total of £950 + £550 for the SL1210M5G. The cartridge was purchased 18 months ago. The complete TT system is my pride and joy and the best turntable I have owned by a country mile.

As I have mentioned previously, I used to be in the trade before retirement and consider that I have trained ears. My hearing as tested recently was, I am told far better than the average for my age, other than a little Tinitus in my left ear, hence the hearing test.

Clive, well put. Richard, you should have a trade account with all the PT/Funk marketing you do in just about every post. ;)

[Gordon Steadman]

Isolation does more than stop your record skipping from a heavy footfall. It makes stuff sound pretty........ never mind the most sublime music. ;)

No doubt true but I prefer the sound of non suspended TTs and find the music is more sublime and indeed, prettier than any suspended decks that I have heard.

I might be an idea to consider the possibility that your opinions and that of your friends, are just that. I realise that its unlikely that both of us could be right about everything so without definitive proof of the matter, I'll go along with me being right;)

[prestonchipfryer]

As a one-time user of a well known fruit box, needing constant attention and a PINA, I have to say that my upgraded Techy 1200, with Isonoe feet, sounds very, very, very good - to my lugholes. Best money ever spent, 'tis to me.

;)

[Wakefield Turntables]

Hi Richard I wondered if you could expand your philosophy on making statements that you cant back up whilst at the same time pissing everyone off?

[loo]

Recent auditioning with solid deck Mr K of Funk Firm caused him to conclude likewise, and investigate going back to suspended. ;)
That is great news , frankly as creator of the worlds best suspended deck I can't believe it's taken him so long , bout time Arthur :lol:

[Oldpinkman]

Hi Richard I wondered if you could expand your philosophy on making statements that you cant back up whilst at the same time pissing everyone off?

Sure - but I would appreciate it if you could be more specific about which statements I can't back up.

I think I can back up most statements. People are pissed off because this is a techie shrine where there is a mutual back-scratching going on. Two other forums I have recently visited have an embarrassing glut of Pink Triangle owners, who presumably don't visit here because of the Technics stuck record. I enjoy it here, so I don't mind toughing it out.

The statement about how many people don't like Pink Triangles, which Clive made, again leaves me a lion in a den of Daniels. I can only note that Technics 1200's on ebay are about £300 and on the rare occasions they are to be found, and Anniversary goes for about £2000. Talk is cheap.

The main point i have made is that most of the Technics advocates clearly don't think much of a stock Technics because they keep the motor and change everything else. You are a case in point. You appear to have a Mike New baseplate, platter, bearing and tonearm board, a replacement power supply, replacement isolation and SME V tonearm. So anyone buying a technics off ebay because you have one, is going to be sore disappointed with how it sounds. Unless all the upgrades are bling because you have more money than sense. And from the upgrades I know anything about, that is not the case.


I noted that I found the standard technics dull compared with my PT and Mission 774 arm. Both units using a Goldring 1022 and 5mm achromat. I found it dull compared to my PT and F5 arm. This is not really that remarkable. First, it is my experience based on my auditioning. From the offence taken by Clive and others you could imply all turntables and components are identical and to suggest one (mine) could sound different from another (the standard techie) was inventing things to be provocative. Most people with any experience of auditioning HiFi would have no problem recognising that turntables and tonearms sound different. I believe that is because of the way they are made, and not because of the name they are associated with. Is that so radical?

There are some pretty obvious reasons to suggest why a standard technics might sound dull compared with a Pink Triangle and Mission 774. And they are presumably the reasons you have fitted a Mike New platter and an SME V arm, together with Isonone isolation upgrades. The standard platter rings and is not very rigid. The standard arm tube rings and is not very rigid (well the arm structure with headshell is not very rigid). Fannying about with the wiring is not going to change that. I explained in an earlier post why resonance and ringing is going to affect the sound. I think we all know why mechanical isolation affects it too. Without having tried every Technics upgrade out there, I think these 3 factors, arm ringing, platter ringing, and isolation, are why a STANDARD technics sounded dull to me compared with a PT 774. As a question of fact it did sound dull. In the absence of a better reason, I will take the ones I have put forward. (Both the acrylic platter and the mission arm tube control resonances better)

Other mods like the bearing are less apparant to me and will have a different affect on the sound. Likewise the power supply. The drive system on my PT is undoubtedly the weak link. The SL1200 is considerably better in this department. So upgrades to the power supply and servo control may make it even better, but in my comparisons they wouldn't occur to me, because the unit is already better in that department than the PT

Finally for now, in the absence of a more specific, and less hostile question, the sorbothane and the acoustic isolation question (Clive's forcefield issue)

The Technics turntable is heavy. Isolation using small sorbothane feet is not likely to be optimal. It may well be better than the standard feet, but it is not likely to be the best solution. And to the extent it is a solution, it is only a solution to isolation from energy transmitted through the shelf or other support on which the turntable sits. It is sod-all use for airborne inteference. It may be that airborne inteference is not very signifcant. At modest listening levels it will be less important. But does it exist?

Sure. I am about to go out into the studio to play acoustic guitar, with Sue singing. I have a Guild acoustic with an undersaddle piezzo pickup, and we use a Yamaha PA. Not very loud - it is only ticking over in the studio, acting like a richer and more natural accoustic combi. If we do not take precautions we suffer feedback - the system will howl-around. How do we combat that?

The simplest measure (which I don't use) is a device like a bath plug that goes in the sound hole - to reduce the extent to which any sound hitting the guitar is amplified by its natural amplifier - the "box" with a hole in it. Effectively a lid for a turntable. Like a lid for a turntable, its effectiveness is limited to the extent that it doesn't prevent all vibration being transmitted to the pickup via the body
This is definitely vibration transmitted through sound waves hitting the guitar, not vibrations in the floor travelling up through my wobbling fat into the guitar body. It is very directional. If we put the guitar in front of a speaker, the howl around happens at much lower volume settings. So aiming the speakers away from the guitar is another method we use.
I have a phase inverter on the acoustic floor pedal I use. This doesnt always help. It seems to depend on room size and distance between speakers and guitar. But in the studio it works. It causes the output from the speakers to be out of phase with the original signal.

Finally - I have a notch filter. A filter which slices a narrow segment of the frequency range out. In the studio mine is set for 350Hz and with all of these measures, we can go pretty much as loud as we like.

The point is that if the fairly modest listening levels we have for our genteel acoustic set can excite my guitar so manifestly, HiFi output is similarly going to affect a turntable plinth / platter / arm. And given the tiny movements that a stylus is sensitive too whilst playing music, that is likely to have an affect on sound. And isolating the plinth from the shelf is not going to address it.

Bored. Off to play somewhere nicer.

:cool:

[Clive197]

Richard, first of all I'm not offended. Secondly that was a huge waffle. It brings to mind the saying. The emptiest kettles make the most noise.
You seem to defend yourself with huge diatribes that actually when it comes down to it make no sense at all. I think your just trying to get your post numbers up without actually saying anything. Oh yes by the way this is the Techiepedia section of the forum which means its hardly surprising that the talk is about Techie's. perhaps you should post on the Pink Triangle part of the forum, oh there isn't one!!!

Sadly all this is actually going off thread which Tony started.

[losenotaminute]

Richard, first of all I'm not offended. Secondly that was a huge waffle. It brings to mind the saying. The emptiest kettles make the most noise.
You seem to defend yourself with huge diatribes that actually when it comes down to it make no sense at all. I think your just trying to get your post numbers up without actually saying anything. Oh yes by the way this is the Techiepedia section of the forum which means its hardly surprising that the talk is about Techie's. perhaps you should post on the Pink Triangle part of the forum, oh there isn't one!!!

Sadly all this is actually going off thread which Tony started.

Clive,

Did you read Richard's post (#34)? It didn't come across as a diatribe to me and seemed to be on topic. He made some valid points, and presented them well.

:scratch:

Lawrence

[DSJR]

Richard, I've come in on this having read things elsewhere, but despite the truly excellent sonic qualities of the PT in comparison to master grade tape recordings compared with vinyl cuts made from them, the fact remains that as with almost all Pink/Funk products, the material execution of these designs often leaves much to be desired. I've seen the tatty internals of older PT's, lids that fall apart (they were glued), shattered bearings (the jewelled 'point' era), and diabolical cutting out of sub chassis'. I do appreciate the bad finish was dramatically improved, and the firm was always keen to service and put right any failures, but the fact remains that well up to the Tarantella era of the late 90's, quality control was iffy at times on some samples I was responsible for in setting up and selling.

Now to the Techie - the only issue I have with the upgrades is that they are totally subjective in nature, meaning that some of these may be tailored to individual taste, rather than trying to make the deck genuinely inert as a reproducer/player of records. Judging by the Techies' ancestors I do know very well, one can get an excellent sound without spending huge amounts on dissecting and tweaking the drive electronics, a mat and foot change doing most of it straight off IMO.

So, where are we now? The surviving PT decks should be utterly stable if looked after and more 'accurate' than many turntables out there. The Techie is also out of production and Isonoes aren't the only feet to use (one musician who posts here definitely preferred the Vantage Audio feet, whatever they're known as now). The millions? of examples made should allow parts to be available for decades though! Some enthusiasts like customising their stuff and I believe this is what many Techie owners wish to do with theirs. Just my thoughts obviously...

[Oldpinkman]

Dave
Thank you for that - but I think it is a bit off thread. Build quality at PT was not their strong suit - I have no problem with that. The issue here is what isolation system would work for a Technics and why. I thought the feet looked a partial solution and explained why

In the process, my "attacks" on Technics were questioned, and I clarified why I make the comments about the SL1200 that I have made. PT mods, as Clive pointed out are for another area, and I intend to post there when I have caught up my work backlog and can pester Arthur to do the mods I want to try :)

[Oldpinkman]

Clive, well put. Richard, you should have a trade account with all the PT/Funk marketing you do in just about every post. ;)

I don't mind having a trade account except that it would seem to me to be fundamentally dishonest as I have absolutely no financial interest whatsoever in Funk. I could offer no product discounts, I cannot address any product warranty issues - it would be utter fraud.

I am as open and honest as I can possibly be about my friendship with Arthur, and that he is my main opportunity to play with HiFi products and ideas.

And marketing PT would be a thankless task given they have been out of business for 10 years. But don't let little details like that stop you sounding off and acting tough big boy ;)

[Marco]

Hi Richard,

Whilst your views on this subject are both as welcome and as valid as those of anyone else, I doubt that the OP finds your comments particularly useful, and with the PT stuff now, we're veering wildly off-topic.

Therefore, if you wish to start a separate thread in the main body of Analogue Art, along the lines of: 'Why I think Isonoe feet don't work', or in Techiepedia, a thread along the lines of: 'Why I think the Technics SL-1200 is flawed and not worthy of extensively modifying', then you are most welcome, otherwise I must ask that you make no further OT comments on Tony's thread.

Cheers :cool:

Marco.

[twotone]

Good grief guys, where to start?:cool:

[Canetoad]

And marketing PT would be a thankless task given they have been out of business for 10 years. But don't let little details like that stop you sounding off and acting tough big boy ;)

Acting tough? I thought I was just pointing out the obvious. :)

[6L6]

How much did the cable and stuff cost you if you don't mind me asking?

I honestly don't remember the exact amount, but it was about $100 for the lot. (maybe less, I ordered a bunch of stuff from him in that shipment.) The cable is a non-catalog item, it uses Cardas all-litz coax. That is attached by Kevin to his arm PCB and the re-wire kit is separate. Send him an email about the Cardas litz tonearm cable and he will set you up nicely.

[Marco]

Acting tough? I thought I was just pointing out the obvious. :)

Hi Bernie,

Whilst I appreciate your sentiments, as I've asked Richard to leave that side of the discussion there now, I must ask you to do the same. I insist that the thread now remains on-topic, and therefore about discussing views on Isonoes, from those who have used them or would like to know more about them. Cheers :)

Marco.

[Ammonite Audio]

When I had a Technics, I tried Isonoe feet twice, reverting in both cases to Stillpoints. All that says is YMMV, since all these thing are highly system dependent, eg what type of equipment support etc. I found that isolation, while being utterly feasible, is not necessarily the best option when we should actually be trying to channel energy in and from the deck in an orderly fashion. Confine the energy produced within the deck itself to its own structure, rather than channeling it away, and musical reproduction may suffer - that's what I found (twice). So, be cautious when thinking that isolation is needed - often it is a worse compromise that relatively hard coupling/channeling of energy. But, we are all different animals, with different auditory systems, musical tastes, prejudices etc, which is why audio sustains such strong and opposing views. There's only one way to find out if something like the Isonoes work in a given system, but they are not particularly cheap to try on a whim.

On a technical note, the behaviour of any sprung system in terms of isolation, fundamental frequency, resonance etc depends on the spring and the mass. In an ideal world, every sprung record player ought to have mass evenly distributed so that each spring sees the same load, and behaves in exactly the same way. The mass at each corner of a Technics varies considerably, so stick Isonoes on and you potentially introduce four competing mass-spring systems, which is not necessarily good. Many sprung belt-drive decks commit the same fundamental design gaffe.

[Oldpinkman]

Excellent post regarding isolation systems. Particularly regarding that dilema with a solid deck of what you are doing with the energy in it. But also the stability issue. It was one reason why I felt an isolation platform approach, rather than a pseudo-spring on each corner might be interesting to pursue (the other being that it would be easier to find an appropriate resonance system using sorbothane of lower durometer**, which would be more effective with bass frequency isolation). It is worth repeating that both methods only address isolation from the support and not airborne energy, unless a lid surrounds the whole system. :)

** softer

[twotone]

I honestly don't remember the exact amount, but it was about $100 for the lot. (maybe less, I ordered a bunch of stuff from him in that shipment.) The cable is a non-catalog item, it uses Cardas all-litz coax. That is attached by Kevin to his arm PCB and the re-wire kit is separate. Send him an email about the Cardas Lits tonearm cable and he will set you up nicely.

Thanks Jim, I see that there is a Low Capacitance All Litz Coax on the site now.


http://www.kabusa.com/frameset.htm?/

[Canetoad]

Hi Bernie,

Whilst I appreciate your sentiments, as I've asked Richard to leave that side of the discussion there now, I must ask you to do the same. I insist that the thread now remains on-topic, and therefore about discussing views on Isonoes, from those who have used them or would like to know more about them. Cheers :)

Marco.



Apologies Richard, Marco. :o

[Oldpinkman]

Apologies Richard, Marco. :o

ditto :)

[Nigel]

I use the Isonoes, admittedly I haven't tried many alternatives. I have an obsession about having the turntable platter as dead on level as possible, especially the arc of cartridge travel. I have found it quite a task to get the Technics platter dead level, presumably as a result of the mass differences Shuggie mentions. I have noticed that a spirit level reading can change over a period of a day or so, if the deck is moved and repositioned. Conclusion - the Isonoes take a period of time to settle into their final position.

[Clive197]

Interesting. My turntable is dead level as tested with a circular bubble level and my I-Phone. The resonance amount on each corner using the Isonoes and boots presents a dilemma that I did not know I had, or have I. Is there a way of testing this? Probably not worth getting stressed about as even if I knew the answer, not sure I could do anything about it.
In the meantime I am listening to Jon Lord (he of Deep Purple) with the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra performing Concerto For Group And Orchestra. It sounds bloody fantastic, the dynamics are something to die for.

[DSJR]

Dave
Thank you for that - but I think it is a bit off thread. Build quality at PT was not their strong suit - I have no problem with that. The issue here is what isolation system would work for a Technics and why. I thought the feet looked a partial solution and explained why

In the process, my "attacks" on Technics were questioned, and I clarified why I make the comments about the SL1200 that I have made. PT mods, as Clive pointed out are for another area, and I intend to post there when I have caught up my work backlog and can pester Arthur to do the mods I want to try :)

I understand. Apologies all, I've been away from here recently and just wished to try to level the playing field a little... These days, I think I coulod readily deal with the likes of the better PT and Void models, but not so much in the 80's;

Isonoes are incredibly expensive to be honest. Surely there's a cheaper option at least as good, even if it dodn't look as flash/posh?

[Wakefield Turntables]

I understand. Apologies all, I've been away from here recently and just wished to try to level the playing field a little... These days, I think I coulod readily deal with the likes of the better PT and Void models, but not so much in the 80's;

Isonoes are incredibly expensive to be honest. Surely there's a cheaper option at least as good, even if it dodn't look as flash/posh?

A second hand pair?

[Ammonite Audio]

The most straightforward way of eliminating the mass difference is to add mass to the corners where it is relatively lacking, thereby making sure that the level and spring rate at each corner are naturally the same. Although a bit fiddly, use digital kitchen scales to 'weigh' each corner of the deck, noting which has the greatest mass, then add mass to the others to match.


Interesting. My turntable is dead level as tested with a circular bubble level and my I-Phone. The resonance amount on each corner using the Isonoes and boots presents a dilemma that I did not know I had, or have I. Is there a way of testing this? Probably not worth getting stressed about as even if I knew the answer, not sure I could do anything about it.
In the meantime I am listening to Jon Lord (he of Deep Purple) with the Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra performing Concerto For Group And Orchestra. It sounds bloody fantastic, the dynamics are something to die for.

[Clive197]

The most straightforward way of eliminating the mass difference is to add mass to the corners where it is relatively lacking, thereby making sure that the level and spring rate at each corner are naturally the same. Although a bit fiddly, use digital kitchen scales to 'weigh' each corner of the deck, noting which has the greatest mass, then add mass to the others to match.

Thanks for that, seems a bit of a faff. Then the question arises about how to add mass without making the deck look ugly.

As I said in my last post, the deck sounds bloody fantastic with the Isonoes and boots attached, so am thinking the talk about mass in the corners is a bit of a red herring. Nobody else has come out with the mass statement and many members have said deck and feet and they seem quite happy.

[Ammonite Audio]

Which is all that should matter to you and those people who are happy with their Technics decks and Isonoe feet! I would not have either in my system again, but my experiences are mine, not yours nor anyone else's.

My comments about mass are intended to inform, in a purely objective sense, why isolation is not necessarily the straightforward business that many think it is.

[twotone]

I use the Isonoes, admittedly I haven't tried many alternatives. I have an obsession about having the turntable platter as dead on level as possible, especially the arc of cartridge travel. I have found it quite a task to get the Technics platter dead level, presumably as a result of the mass differences Shuggie mentions. I have noticed that a spirit level reading can change over a period of a day or so, if the deck is moved and repositioned. Conclusion - the Isonoes take a period of time to settle into their final position.

I've got two cds under each of the front feet Nigel to ensure the TT is level, the rack is lying slightly off back to front by about 3mm, it sits on a 5mm slate floor tile with the carpet undereath the tile.

I found leveling the TT with both the isonoes and the stock feet difficult so just used two old cds.

Piano is fabulous BTW and the bass is pretty good, not a thumping bass it's just present if you know what I mean.

Tony

[twotone]

A second hand pair?

I paid £75 inc postage but to be honest I would happily have paid full retail for them having heard what they do.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Point well made mate! That sort of money is peanuts compared to some of the upgrades that can be bolted to a 1210.

[Clive197]

I'm getting to be of the opinion that the arm, feet and mat are all that's really needed to fettle the SL12100/1210 and gain large sound improvements. Power supplies may have the same improvements or not to mains cables, depends if your a believer or not. Bearings are also on my doubt list.

[twotone]

I'm getting to be of the opinion that the arm, feet and mat are all that's really needed to fettle the SL12100/1210 and gain large sound improvements. Power supplies may have the same improvements or not to mains cables, depends if your a believer or not. Bearings are also on my doubt list.

Have to agree with you Clive although I've only done the basics so can't really comment.

I fitted an external PSU which cost me £150 SH and which I'm perfectly happy with but there is no way the PSU improved the sound when I did the mod the way that the Isonoes have, although to qualify that I did the PSU mod first so maybe I'm only really hearing the PSU mod properly now.

I'm currently listening to The O Jays-The Back Stabbers:Tom Moulton remix and my goodness the sound is just stunning, there is a 'triangle' in the mix that I've never ever heard before and I've listened to this record in various formats over the past forty years.

Tony

[Oldpinkman]

I'm getting to be of the opinion that the arm, feet and mat are all that's really needed to fettle the SL12100/1210 and gain large sound improvements. Power supplies may have the same improvements or not to mains cables, depends if your a believer or not. Bearings are also on my doubt list.

Having heard a stock platter and an improved platter - the platter makes a pretty big difference too, almost certainly for the reasons I outlined in an earlier post. If you doubt this, take the platter off, hold it up by a bit of wire through one of the holes in it, and bang it with your knuckles. It will ring. That's not good - it means that it is "excited" at that frequency. Its ok for a platter (or arm) to vibrate - as long as they pretty much do it evenly across all frequencies, but if they do it significantly more at one frequency than the others, that will be reflected in the output of the cartridge. The mat will damp it somewhat - that's why the achromat makes a much bigger difference on a Techie than a PT, but it won't eliminate it. Rigidity is another issue. It might seem rock solid but thin aluminium is relatively bendy on the micron scale relevant to a HiFi cartridge. Otherwise, I agree with you (and said that in my waffly post) - bearing and power supply probably are much more subtle upgrades, and for me the power supply would be "hidden" because the motor system is already better than mine at present. But arm, platter and isolation were the "stand outs"

[kininigin]

I'm getting to be of the opinion that the arm, feet and mat are all that's really needed to fettle the SL12100/1210 and gain large sound improvements. Power supplies may have the same improvements or not to mains cables, depends if your a believer or not. Bearings are also on my doubt list.

A Mike New Bearing was a big step up!.I had one on my technics for a few weeks and it was easily a vast improvement over the stock bearing.

Any one with functioning ears would be able to tell the difference,not in my opinion but FACT! :ner:

[Clive197]

A Mike New Bearing was a big step up!.I had one on my technics for a few weeks and it was easily a vast improvement over the stock bearing.

Any one with functioning ears would be able to tell the difference,not in my opinion but FACT! :ner:

I appreciate that you and various other members are very happy with the Mike New Bearing but i think it must depend on the whole TT system as to how much effect it has.
I must also point out that I do have perfectly functioning ears and having been in the trade for many years I can assure you without any question of doubt that there is no such thing as FACT when it comes to what we hear.:ner::ner:

[twotone]

A Mike New Bearing was a big step up!.I had one on my technics for a few weeks and it was easily a vast improvement over the stock bearing.

Any one with functioning ears would be able to tell the difference,not in my opinion but FACT! :ner:

What about the Jelco arm Darren, was that a big difference over the stock arm do you think and was it worth the upgrade?

[kininigin]

What about the Jelco arm Darren, was that a big difference over the stock arm do you think and was it worth the upgrade?

It was to me,made everything more refined and more cohesive and well just better.I was using a Shure SC35C,which is a mm type,but it's low complience,so i needed a heavier arm for it to work better.I think if you are just using an mm then you probably wouldn't need a jelco!

[kininigin]

I appreciate that you and various other members are very happy with the Mike New Bearing but i think it must depend on the whole TT system as to how much effect it has.
I must also point out that I do have perfectly functioning ears and having been in the trade for many years I can assure you without any question of doubt that there is no such thing as FACT when it comes to what we hear.:ner::ner:

Yes true,but if you are sticking a mnb in your system,it would be pretty safe to assume that the rest of the system is up to scratch!

My 'fact' comment,was a tongue firmly in cheek case! But non the less i defy anyone not being able to tell the difference between a stock bearing and a mnb,in a well sorted system!

[twotone]

It was to me,made everything more refined and more cohesive and well just better.I was using a Shure SC35C,which is a mm type,but it's low complience,so i needed a heavier arm for it to work better.I think if you are just using an mm then you probably wouldn't need a jelco!

Thanks Darren, that's interesting.

I'm between re-wiring the stock one myself, sending it to Johnny at OA or buying the Jelco.

The re-wire option re Jim appeals though not least because it looks very easy to do but by the time I buy the stuff from Kab it might be better to just take the deck to John (he's in Glasgow I believe) and have him do the stock arm, think the rewire is about £180ish.

[kininigin]

Thanks Darren, that's interesting.

I'm between re-wiring the stock one myself, sending it to Johnny at OA or buying the Jelco.

The re-wire option re Jim appeals though not least because it looks very easy to do but by the time I buy the stuff from Kab it might be better to just take the deck to John (he's in Glasgow I believe) and have him do the stock arm, think the rewire is about £180ish.

I had the same problem,but i pretty much knew i wanted to try a decca cart at some point in the future and maybe some mc carts,so in my case it was an easy decision in the end.Plus one came up second hand which helped!

I have just sold my jelco as my tt is out of action and i want to get a croft pre again. I had to sell most of the things which took me 3 yrs to get (ski season in france killed me!!) I'm now on a mission to get my system back to where it was.I didn't have any isonoes though,i used sorbathane.Would be interesting to hear the difference between the 2 in the same system!

Word of warning,i rewired my stock arm and found it fiddly as fook.I got there in the end and it was my first attempt ever at that sort of thing!

[Nigel]

With regards to the ringing platter, bluetack can be placed strategically to cut this down considerably. I seem to recall Mike New himself recommended this procedure on this very forum. Shouldn't be too hard to find the thread.

[6L6]

Thanks Jim, I see that there is a Low Capacitance All Litz Coax on the site now.

Wonderful! That's the stuff!

[twotone]

Wonderful! That's the stuff!

You must have started something Jim!

Some nice stuff on that site.

Tony

[Oldpinkman]

O
With regards to the ringing platter, bluetack can be placed strategically to cut this down considerably. I seem to recall Mike New himself recommended this procedure on this very forum. Shouldn't be too hard to find the thread.

Oh god. Nobody tell marco, the dalek, rexton and the others they could have just stuck bluetak on. Or the technics engineers for that matter who stuck a thin sheet of rubber on. Damping is unpredictable and has other consequences.

[Wakefield Turntables]

O

Oh god. Nobody tell marco, the dalek, rexton and the others they could have just stuck bluetak on. Or the technics engineers for that matter who stuck a thin sheet of rubber on. Damping is unpredictable and has other consequences.

Bluetak is used in my system, just not on the platter.

[prestonchipfryer]

Bluetak is used in my system, just not on the platter.

I also use it in my system. Not on the platter though.

[RobbieGong]

Be careful with damping, sorbathane, bluetak etc. Each time I've found it sucks the life out of the music
in my system.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Be careful with damping, sorbathane, bluetak etc. Each time I've found it sucks the life out of the music
in my system.

Sorbothane is used under the P10, the Sugden phonostage, ATC SCA2 pre-amp and my speakers. The 1210 sits on its Isonoes and the bluetak is used to seperate cables.

[Oldpinkman]

Be careful with damping, sorbathane, bluetak etc. Each time I've found it sucks the life out of the music
in my system.

Yup. And it is also likely to affect the dynamic balance of the platter.

[RobbieGong]

Your right with regard to 'Dynamics' in so much as I've found they seem to 'limp out a bit' with damping. I've also found the musicallity to suffer / die too and I'm not talking about with loads of stuf used either - The Techie has more than enough damping in it's plinth - period. The platter rings like a bell, the only genuine resolve for that I found was to replace it, in my case with the superb Mike New ETP platter which is as resonant as a brick (the Funk is also said to be brill) ! The arm too is very thin and resonant. I found these two upgrades alone to really translate to a more natural presentation of the music. The Mike New bearing was another area addressed (along with external psu) that more than added to making things sound more 'right' without having the 'sucked out' effect that damping can have in my experience.

[6L6]

I sit on an entire sheet of blutak, to isolate my spine from unwanted spurious vibrations. I find it increases the length of time I can listen.

In regards to sorbathane, I've always wanted to try a very small bit in-between the Malleus and Incus, to control the coupling and overall dynamics of the Stapes and that system further downstream. It might just make things foggier, however...

[Oldpinkman]

I sit on an entire sheet of blutak, to isolate my spine from unwanted spurious vibrations. I find it increases the length of time I can listen.

I use a sofa...:D

[Clive197]

I use a sofa...:D

OMG, Richard, so do I!:cool:

[Clive197]

On a more serious note, with all the upgrades available, I think it is getting harder and harder to tell individually what they are doing to the sound. Is there an improvement or is it just different. How far is it possible to go to get the very best sound available or are we all going around and around trying for the utopia that does not exist.
I think each upgrade we make changes the sound, some good some not so good but all different. Success depends on our personal taste and what we want to achieve. With the arm, mat and feet, I'm done. It's time to sit back ( on my sofa) and just enjoy the music. Who's for a nice glass of red wine?

[Oldpinkman]

Clive
I quite agree. My current frustration is that having been perfectly happy with my PT 774 and U205 for years, a series of factors has made me recently listen to some other stuff, and I am finding I want it. It is particularly galling that it was a bloody solid deck I heard it on, and a huge relief to find (hopefully - we haven't actually done it yet) that it can be applied to my preferred bouncer. Once it is, I plan to sit back and enjoy like you.

Pro tem, I see no harm in a glass of wine anyway (a bit later this evening perhaps) :)

[Reffc]

On a more serious note, with all the upgrades available, I think it is getting harder and harder to tell individually what they are doing to the sound. Is there an improvement or is it just different. How far is it possible to go to get the very best sound available or are we all going around and around trying for the utopia that does not exist.
I think each upgrade we make changes the sound, some good some not so good but all different. Success depends on our personal taste and what we want to achieve. With the arm, mat and feet, I'm done. It's time to sit back ( on my sofa) and just enjoy the music. Who's for a nice glass of red wine?

Seems to me that if upgrades aren't improving the sound, then they're not upgrades, they're changes which are probably doing little other than emptying your wallet. It gets to the point I suspect where in place of spending all that money, it would superficially seem to make more sense to sell the deck and put the money (from deck plus upgrade budget) into something better in the first place as the choice these days is better than ever, as is the value. Not a pop at Techy decks or owners as its probably a perfectly capable deck up to a point but it does surprise me that some people are willing to part with £1000's quite literally when decks like the PT, Townsend Rock or even the Michell Gyro are available for similar budgets and they, with properly matched arm are capable of truly embarrassing most Techy's I've listended to. Kept real world and bought as a reasonable used buy, fitted with a decent arm and cart and then it makes more sense to me. Still, lots of people buy cars and modify them so it's not always about vfm or perfromance I guess.

[twotone]

Seems to me that if upgrades aren't improving the sound, then they're not upgrades, they're changes which are probably doing little other than emptying your wallet. It gets to the point I suspect where in place of spending all that money, it would superficially seem to make more sense to sell the deck and put the money (from deck plus upgrade budget) into something better in the first place as the choice these days is better than ever, as is the value. Not a pop at Techy decks or owners as its probably a perfectly capable deck up to a point but it does surprise me that some people are willing to part with £1000's quite literally when decks like the PT, Townsend Rock or even the Michell Gyro are available for similar budgets and they, with properly matched arm are capable of truly embarrassing most Techy's I've listended to. Kept real world and bought as a reasonable used buy, fitted with a decent arm and cart and then it makes more sense to me. Still, lots of people buy cars and modify them so it's not always about vfm or perfromance I guess.


Think thus far I've spent around £680 sans cart which was another £150 and I sold a cart that came with the deck for about £35 so about £650 for the deck inc extras (mat, feet & psu) and the Techie is definitely much better than my previous two decks so much so in fact that I sold a top quality CD player as I simply don't play CDs now that I've got the Technics.

The previous two decks, a RP3 and RB300 arm & AR TT with AN 1120 arm cartridge on both was a Denon DL-110, didn't make me want to give up CD, the Technics did.

I sold the CD player for £400 plus postage to Holland and less £50 for a repair and the AR TT for £280 plus postage to Thailand so basically those two items have paid for the Technics and the upgrades.

I intend to do something about the arm, either rewire or renew it with a Jelco and I'm buying a new phono stage but obviously that would be the case regardless of deck.

Question is what other deck is available at that price which sounds as good as my deck does at the moment? Or to put it another way what sort of TT would £700 get you?

[RobbieGong]

Seems to me that if upgrades aren't improving the sound, then they're not upgrades, they're changes which are probably doing little other than emptying your wallet. It gets to the point I suspect where in place of spending all that money, it would superficially seem to make more sense to sell the deck and put the money (from deck plus upgrade budget) into something better in the first place as the choice these days is better than ever, as is the value. Not a pop at Techy decks or owners as its probably a perfectly capable deck up to a point but it does surprise me that some people are willing to part with £1000's quite literally when decks like the PT, Townsend Rock or even the Michell Gyro are available for similar budgets and they, with properly matched arm are capable of truly embarrassing most Techy's I've listended to. Kept real world and bought as a reasonable used buy, fitted with a decent arm and cart and then it makes more sense to me. Still, lots of people buy cars and modify them so it's not always about vfm or performance I guess.

I hear your point Paul. It's a question or argument that's often been put when it comes to the Techie ie: Is it worth spending thousands ? Why not buy this or that 'nice' deck instead. In my own experience as a guy with not a lot of money let's say who has gone down that road, I'd definately say yes. The results for me have been a revelation in terms of what has been achieved, which is really wonderful vinyl playback, sounding more 'right' and from a deck that is 'built', a peice of p to use and very solid indeed which is really reassuring. The trick is to upgrade smartly then, ie: not get yourself in debt by following what everyone else who may well have deeper pockets is doing. Some 'necessary' areas are hard to avoid having to pay out for if you 'really' want the 'result' ie, Mike New bearing and a proper non ringy platter. After that you can shop around for a decent external power supply, or even diy your own - there's loads of choice out there so you dont have to spend a fortune. The arm does need addressing and that doesnt have to cost a bomb. My vintage Micro Seiki MA-202 arm is highly regarded, literally mint and even has on the fly vta adjust - Yippee !! :lol: cost me around £250 delivered from a seller in Japan. Did my home work, double checked conditon with him and his feedback. Deck sounds great to my ears with upgrades and 2M Black onboard - I would put it up against a fair number of your exotic jobbies costing loads more than what I've spent, confident their owners would be like ' Nice, nice, nice !! :)

[Reffc]

I'd say that most decks at £650 would see an RP3 off although they're not bad for the money. The AR with that arm could also be wiped out by any current £650 deck.

You can easily buy a Mitchell Technodeck with arm used for £650 these days, or a PT.

Not saying the SL's a bad deck at all, please don't get me wrong, but there are better to be had without the need for upgrades. Glad you're enjoying it though which is the main thing.

[Marco]

Not a pop at Techy decks or owners as its probably a perfectly capable deck up to a point but it does surprise me that some people are willing to part with £1000's quite literally when decks like the PT, Townsend Rock or even the Michell Gyro are available for similar budgets and they, with properly matched arm are capable of truly embarrassing most Techy's I've listended to.

Glad you added that last bit, Paul! :eyebrows:

Let's put it another way, from my perspective (based on having compared my modded SL-1210, not only with Rocks and Gyros, although not a PT, so can't comment there, but with genuine high-end stuff, such as the Brinkmann Bardo and Oasis, and Systemdek 3D Signature - the latter two both being five-figure price tag T/Ts - but with pretty much also all the renowned 'classics', such as various SP10s, Garrard 301s/401s, Lencos and Thorens TD124s), and my modded SL-1210 wasn't disgraced by any of those; in fact, it outperformed most of them, and not just in my opinion either, save the Systemdek, which is one of the finest T/Ts I've heard at any price, and probably the only belt-drive turntable I've heard that I could live with.

When your turntable (heavily modified or not) has cost 'only' around £5.5k in total, and yet can compete with, and in some cases outperform, other turntables costing in excess of DOUBLE that amount, then perhaps you wouldn't be quite so surprised why people like Martin and me (and a few others) have done what we've done with our Techies!! ;)

However, I don't expect you to believe me until you've heard what I'm claiming for yourself. Therefore, here's a challenge for you: obtain ANY turntable you wish at any price (by borrowing one from someone else if necessary), and I'll bring my modded SL-1210 to your place and we'll have a little 'shoot-out'. Regardless of what 'wins' (which isn't the point of the exercise), you'll have heard my turntable against your stated reference, in your system, and so in future will be able to comment with authority on what is possible with the most judiciously modified SL-1200s and 1210s, rather than on merely using guesswork.

We can then write-up the session (with pics) for the forum. Are you up for it? Be good to meet up, anyway, regardless! :)

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Glad you added that last bit, Paul! :eyebrows:

Let's put it another way, from my perspective (based on having compared my modded SL-1210, not only with Rocks and Gyros, although not a PT, so can't comment there, but with genuine high-end stuff, such as the Brinkmann Bardo and Oasis, and Systemdek 3D Signature - the latter two both being five-figure price tag T/Ts - but with pretty much also all the renowned 'classics', such as various SP10s, Garrard 301s/401s, Lencos and Thorens TD124s), and my modded SL-1210 wasn't disgraced by any of those; in fact, it outperformed most of them, and not just in my opinion either, save the Systemdek, which is one of the finest T/Ts I've heard at any price, and probably the only belt-drive turntable I've heard that I could live with.

When your turntable (heavily modified or not) has cost 'only' around £5.5k in total, and yet can compete with, and in some cases outperform, other turntables costing in excess of DOUBLE that amount, then perhaps you wouldn't be quite so surprised why people like Martin and me (and a few others) have done what we've done with our Techies!! ;)

However, I don't expect you to believe me until you've heard what I'm claiming for yourself. Therefore, here's a challenge for you: obtain ANY turntable you wish at any price (by borrowing one from someone else if necessary), and I'll bring my modded SL-1210 to your place and we'll have a little 'shoot-out'. Regardless of what 'wins' (which isn't the point of the exercise), you'll have heard my turntable against your stated reference, and so in future will be able to comment with authority on what is possible with the most judiciously modified SL-1200s and 1210s, rather than on merely using guesswork.

We can then write-up the session (with pics) for the forum. Are you up for it? Be good to meet up, anyway, regardless! :)

Marco.

Love it !!!!!!!!! :D

[Frankyc2003]

:popcorn:

Can't wait for this one...

Very interesting, and needless to say very fair play!

:cool:

[Reffc]

Glad you added that last bit, Paul! :eyebrows:

Let's put it another way, from my perspective (based on having compared my modded SL-1210, not only with Rocks and Gyros, although not a PT, so can't comment there, but with genuine high-end stuff, such as the Brinkmann Bardo and Oasis, and Systemdek 3D Signature - the latter two both being five-figure price tag T/Ts - but with pretty much also all the renowned 'classics', such as various SP10s, Garrard 301s/401s, Lencos and Thorens TD124s), and my modded SL-1210 wasn't disgraced by any of those; in fact, it outperformed most of them, and not just in my opinion either, save the Systemdek, which is one of the finest T/Ts I've heard at any price, and probably the only belt-drive turntable I've heard that I could live with.

When your turntable (heavily modified or not) has cost 'only' around £5.5k in total, and yet can compete with, and in some cases outperform, other turntables costing in excess of DOUBLE that amount, then perhaps you wouldn't be quite so surprised why people like Martin and me (and a few others) have done what we've done with our Techies!! ;)

However, I don't expect you to believe me until you've heard what I'm claiming for yourself. Therefore, here's a challenge for you: obtain ANY turntable you wish at any price (by borrowing one from someone else if necessary), and I'll bring my modded SL-1210 to your place and we'll have a little 'shoot-out'. Regardless of what 'wins' (which isn't the point of the exercise), you'll have heard my turntable against your stated reference, in your system, and so in future will be able to comment with authority on what is possible with the most judiciously modified SL-1200s and 1210s, rather than on merely using guesswork.

We can then write-up the session (with pics) for the forum. Are you up for it? Be good to meet up, anyway, regardless! :)

Marco.

That's my point Marco

there are any number of TT's at half that budget that ought to be more than a match. I'm just trying to get my head round why anyone would want to spend £5500 on a Techy? As to the performance, I'm sure that you preferred it but to do any meaningful comparison with front ends, the tonearms, cables, cartridges, phonostages and amps/speakers HAVE to be the same otherwise there are too many variables to be able to claim its the deck making the difference. I do find it hard to believe that even a heavily modded techy could outperform something like an orb fitted with an SMEIV (say) and top notch MC cart. I'm not saying you're wrong as there is no wrong or right but surely not knowing where your journey was going to take you, it was a hell of an investment based on risk rather than certainty? Good for you though if it was worth it.

As for a willy waving contest using decks...no thanks ;) I love what my Gyro SE/309/Shelter combination does and being the former owner of a techy I do know which I prefer...its the one I have now. As stated many times, this is not about getting the upper hand, its about the reasoning why one would throw such a vast amount of money on the venerable SL deck not knowing where that journey was going? As for claiming that in doing so you've created a superdeck to beat all other superdecks, then yes Marco, I have my serious doubts and not borne on guesswork but experience of what some high end decks/arms/carts are capable of. Yes, I haven't heard yours yet, but the discussion has veered towards more the reasoning behind the investment as there is no way you could have known how the experiment was going to have ended up until you'd spent the money. That's my real point Marco, and as I have already said, I'm not having a pop at Techy decks. Again, glad it's worked out to your satisfaction.

[User211]

Everyone who is anyone knows that Techies only sound great in stock form with a Stanton cart after 8 pints in a club with huge horn speakers about 20-30 years ago.

LOL.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Been reading this with some interest. I have a very heavily modified 1210 perhaps more extreme than Marco's or MartinT in some respects. I've been on a personal voyage with my deck just to see what could be done with a 1210, now the fascination has moved from the 1210 to the Garrard 301 and Tannoy speakers that I own. And I'm sure when I've taken these as far as I can it will move onto something else. I love to tweek and modify, thats the bit of the hobby I most enjoy. Sad, geeky, but true.

[RobbieGong]

That's my point Marco

there are any number of TT's at half that budget that ought to be more than a match. I'm just trying to get my head round why anyone would want to spend £5500 on a Techy? As to the performance, I'm sure that you preferred it but to do any meaningful comparison with front ends, the tonearms, cables, cartridges, phonostages and amps/speakers HAVE to be the same otherwise there are too many variables to be able to claim its the deck making the difference. I do find it hard to believe that even a heavily modded techy could outperform something like an orb fitted with an SMEIV (say) and top notch MC cart. I'm not saying you're wrong as there is no wrong or right but surely not knowing where your journey was going to take you, it was a hell of an investment based on risk rather than certainty? Good for you though if it was worth it.

As for a willy waving contest using decks...no thanks ;) I love what my Gyro SE/309/Shelter combination does and being the former owner of a techy I do know which I prefer...its the one I have now. As stated many times, this is not about getting the upper hand, its about the reasoning why one would throw such a vast amount of money on the venerable SL deck not knowing where that journey was going? As for claiming that in doing so you've created a superdeck to beat all other superdecks, then yes Marco, I have my serious doubts and not borne on guesswork but experience of what some high end decks/arms/carts are capable of. Yes, I haven't heard yours yet, but the discussion has veered towards more the reasoning behind the investment as there is no way you could have known how the experiment was going to have ended up until you'd spent the money. That's my real point Marco, and as I have already said, I'm not having a pop at Techy decks. Again, glad it's worked out to your satisfaction.

Hi Paul, Dont you think it would be cool to at least take the offer up of listening to Marco's hevily modded Techie to even just see what you think ? Of course we are talking a very heavily modded one indeed here. I think if you were then also able to listen to one that has had say maybe up to £2K spent on it, (which as you know is not a lot at all as far as decks are concerned) then that would give you even more of an idea and gauge regarding what the fuss might be about - Respecfully RobbieGong :) .

[Marco]

Hi Paul,


there are any number of TT's at half that budget that ought to be more than a match. I'm just trying to get my head round why anyone would want to spend £5500 on a Techy?


Don't forget that's including the £2.2k arm and £1.5k cartridge I use, neither of which is mandatory! ;)

Therefore, minus that amount from the £5500 figure, and you'll arrive at what I've actually spent on the main 'nuts and bolts', excluding the cost of the original stock turntable.

The point is that the D/D motor in the SL-1200/1210 is a fantastic piece of engineering - and something that today would cost many thousands of pounds to produce, therefore it deserves to be surrounded by ancillary items of equal quality and capability (remember that the Technics SL-1200/1210 was never designed as a budget turntable), which is precisely where items such as the Mike New bearing, Funk Firm platter and off-board PSUs, of the quality of those from Paul Hynes, come in.


As to the performance, I'm sure that you preferred it but to do any meaningful comparison with front ends, the tonearms, cables, cartridges, phonostages and amps/speakers HAVE to be the same otherwise there are too many variables to be able to claim its the deck making the difference.


How so? Simply slot my T/T into your system, replacing your Gyro, and there will be no other major variables, leaving the T/Ts present to 'speak for themselves' (as one 'complete solution' versus another), as it were. The fact is that no cartridge, arm or phono stage can disguise a turntable that is intrinsically bad or merely average.

Therefore, what's to lose? :)


I do find it hard to believe that even a heavily modded techy could outperform something like an orb fitted with an SMEIV (say) and top notch MC cart.


Well, I've not done an A/B comparison with an Orbe/SME combo, but I've heard a few (using cartridges such as those from Zyx and Transfiguration), and whilst I liked what the Orbe did, I never sat there and thought: 'Jeez, this is fantastic - I want one!' It's simply a very capable T/T, which majors in areas of music reproduction different from what a modified Technics excels in.


I'm not saying you're wrong as there is no wrong or right but surely not knowing where your journey was going to take you, it was a hell of an investment based on risk rather than certainty? Good for you though if it was worth it.


Before I embarked on my 'Techie journey', I spent more than two years researching its history and what I considered it would be capable of after some judicious modifications, not to mention applying a goodly dose of gut instinct, before I took the plunge. It was far from a 'spur of the moment' thing! Also, what I've achieved is the culmination of four years work, implementing one upgrade at a time. I didn't just drop £5.5k on a 'wing and a prayer', as it were.

However, this is the key point: what other T/T, available today, can you buy for £300 (which is the price of a decent SL-1200/1210, second-hand), and gradually upgrade, according to your budget, and end up with a turntable that can genuinely hold its own against the best? There are none! That fact alone should explain the viability of embarking on such a project.


As for a willy waving contest using decks...no thanks. I love what my Gyro SE/309/Shelter combination does and being the former owner of a techy I do know which I prefer...its the one I have now.

No problem, Paul. The offer is there if you ever change your mind :cool:

Marco.

[Reffc]

Hi Paul,



Don't forget that's including the £2.2k arm and £1.5k cartridge I use, neither of which is mandatory! ;)

Therefore, minus that amount from the £5500 figure, and you'll arrive at what I've actually spend on the main 'nuts and bolts'. The point is that the D/D motor in the SL-1200/1210 is a fantastic piece of engineering - and something that today would cost many thousands of pounds to produce, therefore it deserves to be surrounded by ancillary items of equal quality and capabilities, which is precisely where items such as the Mike New bearing, Funk Firm platter and off-board PSUs, of the quality of those from Paul Hynes, come in.



How so? Simply slot my T/T into your system, replacing your Gyro, and there will be no other variables, leaving the T/Ts present to 'speak for themselves', as it were. What's to lose? :)



Well, I've not done an A/B comparison with an Orbe/SME combo, but I've heard a few (using cartridges as those from Zyx and Transfiguration), and whilst I've liked what the Orbe does, I've never sat there and thought: 'Jeez, this is fantastic - I want one!' It's simply a very capable T/T, which majors in areas of music reproduction different from what a modded Technics excels in.



Before I embarked on my 'Techie journey', I spent more than two years researching its history and what I considered it would be capable of after some well-applied modifications, not to mention applying a goodly dose of 'gut instinct', before I took the plunge. It was far from a 'spur of the moment' thing! Also, what I've achieved is the culmanation of four years work, implementing one change at a time.

What other T/T, available today, can you buy for £300 (which is the price of the SL-1200/1210 second-hand), and gradually upgrade it, according to your budget, and end up with a T/T that can genuinely hold its own against the best? There are none! That alone should explain the viability of embarking on such a project.



No problem, Paul. The offer is there if you ever change your mind :cool:

Marco.


Lets put it another way Mareco, one of these days either I'd have to visit to hear those Lockwoods or you'll have to visit to hear the Fidelios...our system tastes are probably not that far removed, it's just that we've come at it from different angles ;)

[Marco]

Lets put it another way Mareco, one of these days either I'd have to visit to hear those Lockwoods or you'll have to visit to hear the Fidelios...our system tastes are probably not that far removed, it's just that we've come at it from different angles ;)

Yup - there are so many things to listen to that I'm sure would fascinate both of us - gotta be done sometime, me thinks! :cool:

Marco.

[The Black Adder]

It's amazing what can be spent on the trusty 1210. Although I've not heard Marco's (hopefully soon) I'm sure it's a real performer. Any deck worth it's beans has a high end priced upgrade path. My TD124 has upgrades galore but I must resist. lol

[Oldpinkman]

Glad you added that last bit, Paul! :eyebrows:

Let's put it another way, from my perspective (based on having compared my modded SL-1210, not only with Rocks and Gyros, although not a PT, so can't comment there, but with genuine high-end stuff, such as the Brinkmann Bardo and Oasis, and Systemdek 3D Signature - the latter two both being five-figure price tag T/Ts - but with pretty much also all the renowned 'classics', such as various SP10s, Garrard 301s/401s, Lencos and Thorens TD124s), and my modded SL-1210 wasn't disgraced by any of those; in fact, it outperformed most of them, and not just in my opinion either, save the Systemdek, which is one of the finest T/Ts I've heard at any price, and probably the only belt-drive turntable I've heard that I could live with.

When your turntable (heavily modified or not) has cost 'only' around £5.5k in total, and yet can compete with, and in some cases outperform, other turntables costing in excess of DOUBLE that amount, then perhaps you wouldn't be quite so surprised why people like Martin and me (and a few others) have done what we've done with our Techies!! ;)

However, I don't expect you to believe me until you've heard what I'm claiming for yourself. Therefore, here's a challenge for you: obtain ANY turntable you wish at any price (by borrowing one from someone else if necessary), and I'll bring my modded SL-1210 to your place and we'll have a little 'shoot-out'. Regardless of what 'wins' (which isn't the point of the exercise), you'll have heard my turntable against your stated reference, in your system, and so in future will be able to comment with authority on what is possible with the most judiciously modified SL-1200s and 1210s, rather than on merely using guesswork.

We can then write-up the session (with pics) for the forum. Are you up for it? Be good to meet up, anyway, regardless! :)

Marco.

Sure you don't need it paul, but happy to supply one. :)

[User211]

The Fidelio's are worth a listen Marco.

The Techie when I heard it at Scalford was nice and lively so it is worth a listen Paul.

Do it guys!:)

[Clive197]

What always fascinated me when I had to do a demo for a customer in the shop was how can anyone decide on a product in a strange room with strange ancillaries.
Everyone on these posts are right. We are all making comments on the end result based on the equipment, speakers and room we are using, the variables are endless. A deck that sounds fantastics in one environment and system could sound pants in another.
Even Bake-offs present difficulties, unless the room characteristics are known and accepted by all participants.
My main point is that unless you demo a piece of equipment or upgrade at home in your own system your on a wing and a prayer.;)

[User211]

I agree Clive.

[chelsea]

Me to.
When i have a bake off i try and make it a tt one or a amp one as if to much is changed i don't have a clue what is doing what.

[Marco]

What always fascinated me when I had to do a demo for a customer in the shop was how can anyone decide on a product in a strange room with strange ancillaries.
Everyone on these posts are right. We are all making comments on the end result based on the equipment, speakers and room we are using, the variables are endless. A deck that sounds fantastics in one environment and system could sound pants in another.
Even Bake-offs present difficulties, unless the room characteristics are known and accepted by all participants.
My main point is that unless you demo a piece of equipment or upgrade at home in your own system your on a wing and a prayer.;)

Hi Clive,

In principle I would wholeheartedly agree. However, experience also tells me that an intrinsically capable and high-calibre piece of audio equipment performs well (note that the key word here is "well", not 'optimally') in almost any environment or system. Why else do you think that my own T/T has consistently achieved that in numerous different systems and rooms, over the course of the four years I've owned it?

Yes, it will sound at its best in my system, amongst ancillaries which have been designed to optimise its performance, but if the T/T is genuinely any good, then it should also perform to a high standard when taken out of that equation, which unsurprisingly, is exactly what has happened.

That, of course, doesn't mean that someone else will prefer it to what they use, but if their system is neutral and accurate enough to simply allow any good source component to shine, then they should be able to acknowledge the talents of the source component (T/T), regardless or not if the overall result is entirely to their tastes, in comparison with their own favourite and well-known reference :)

Marco.

[Clive197]

Hi Clive,

In principle I would wholeheartedly agree. However, experience also tells me that an intrinsically capable and high-calibre piece of audio equipment performs well (note that the key word here is "well", not 'optimally') in almost any environment or system. Why else do you think that my own T/T has consistently achieved that in numerous different systems and rooms, over the course of the four years I've owned it?

Yes, it will sound at its best in my system, amongst ancillaries which have been designed to optimise its performance, but if the T/T is genuinely any good, then it should also perform to a high standard when taken out of that equation, which unsurprisingly, is exactly what has happened.

That, of course, doesn't mean that someone else will prefer it to what they use, but if their system is neutral and accurate enough to simply allow any good source component to shine, then they should be able to acknowledge the talents of the source component (T/T), regardless or not if the overall result is entirely to their tastes, in comparison with their own favourite reference :)

Marco.

Marco, I understand your comments and to paraphrase in principle.
I had a a colleague who went on all the time about a dem he had heard of Meridian gear. Good well respected kit I'm sure you will agree. A few weeks later we both went to a HiFi show together, he dragged me into the Meridian room and we sat and listened. After a short while I said to him, "you think this is the best gear you've ever heard, it's leaving me very underwhelmed" he agreed saying it sounded a lot better at the other show. Point: same kit, different room.

I think we are going away from original question here, which often happens with large posts. Sorry.

[6L6]

A deck that sounds fantastics in one environment and system could sound pants in another.

Would somebody be so kind as to explain why, in the Queen's English, 'pants' means horrible, rubbish, nasty, bad, etc...? I'm just curious as to the nature of the idiom. :) :) :)

[Oldpinkman]

What always fascinated me when I had to do a demo for a customer in the shop was how can anyone decide on a product in a strange room with strange ancillaries.
Everyone on these posts are right. We are all making comments on the end result based on the equipment, speakers and room we are using, the variables are endless. A deck that sounds fantastics in one environment and system could sound pants in another.
Even Bake-offs present difficulties, unless the room characteristics are known and accepted by all participants.
My main point is that unless you demo a piece of equipment or upgrade at home in your own system your on a wing and a prayer.;)

I agree. The only sure way is to audition a component is in the precise environment it is to be used. The opposite extreme, which I am struggling with Is to take a punt based on the opinions of strangers. I struggled enough taking a punt on a 1022 based on the opinion of arthur whose hifi tastes i knew well. But broadly I agree with marco too. A good component will be evident, and in particular, system building should try to be putting together components which lose or distort as little as possible, rather than having one fault in one component balance an opposite fault in another. And if you are comparing components it doesn't matter if say the room is bad, as long as the bad element is consistent for both components being compared. But in your own system is ideal. :)

[Stratmangler]

Would somebody be so kind as to explain why, in the Queen's English, 'pants' means horrible, rubbish, nasty, bad, etc...? I'm just curious as to the nature of the idiom. :) :) :)

This side of the pond pants are what you wear under your trousers, and therefore potentially shitty
Your side of the pond pants are your trousers.

It's one of those nations divided by a common language things ;)

[Marco]

'Crusties' (for pants) is a term I'm rather fond of! :eyebrows:

Marco.

[Macca]

It's funny. I just fitted a new stylus to my 1200, which is completely stock except for mat and headshell and I was sat there listening the other night and thinking 'I'd love it for some of the Techie detractors to hear this', and whaddya know? three come along at once! Now it's not the best TT set up ever, not by a mile, but given that, sans cartridge, it has cost me just £260, it is the TT bargain of the world. I had a friend of a friend come around and the three of us were talking turntables. I mentioned the SL1200 and this bloke says earnestly ' Martin, it may be a good DJ deck but it's no good for hi-fi.' Without saying anything I got up and put a record on. He had to walk down the room to confirm with his eyes that it was an Sl1200 he was listening to.

It's always best in hi-fi not to jump to conclusions without listening first, no matter how much experience you may have.

[The Grand Wazoo]

'Crusties' (for pants) is a term I'm rather fond of! :eyebrows:

A vote for 'Shreddies' over here!

[6L6]

This side of the pond pants are what you wear under your trousers, and therefore potentially shitty
Your side of the pond pants are your trousers.

It's one of those nations divided by a common language things ;)

Aha! Thank you.

Along the line of UK Knickers = Panties and US Knickers = Breeks (Although that is fading quickly here and we are starting to use knickers (the word) as you do.) ((I suppose we use knickers (the garment) the same way... Perhaps.))

[twotone]

Aha! Thank you.

Along the line of UK Knickers = Panties and US Knickers = Breeks (Although that is fading quickly here and we are starting to use knickers (the word) as you do.) ((I suppose we use knickers (the garment) the same way... Perhaps.))

Nah, knickers are woman's smalls:lol: Pants are rubbish knickers if you know what I mean? Think Brigette Jones Diary and her big pants.

[prestonchipfryer]

There are some miserable bastards about. Let's hope they get what they are due. What goes round comes round.

[Frankyc2003]

It's funny. I just fitted a new stylus to my 1200, which is completely stock except for mat and headshell and I was sat there listening the other night and thinking 'I'd love it for some of the Techie detractors to hear this', and whaddya know? three come along at once! Now it's not the best TT set up ever, not by a mile, but given that, sans cartridge, it has cost me just £260, it is the TT bargain of the world. I had a friend of a friend come around and the three of us were talking turntables. I mentioned the SL1200 and this bloke says earnestly ' Martin, it may be a good DJ deck but it's no good for hi-fi.' Without saying anything I got up and put a record on. He had to walk down the room to confirm with his eyes that it was an Sl1200 he was listening to.

It's always best in hi-fi not to jump to conclusions without listening first, no matter how much experience you may have.
Love this story. Sums it up for me!

[Andrew B]

Going back to Isonoes on a Techy, I am just wondering if anyone is using Alto Extremo feet on preference. I'm trying both right now and for me the Altos are head scratchingly fab. The Isonoes are good, but it's no contest for me. I'm not using a Techy though, so I can't say if owners will get the same result. I thought it worth mentioning though. I'm only using the cheapest Altos, thank goodness!

[alex_san78]

Hi Richard,

Whilst your views on this subject are both as welcome and as valid as those of anyone else, I doubt that the OP finds your comments particularly useful, and with the PT stuff now, we're veering wildly off-topic.

Therefore, if you wish to start a separate thread in the main body of Analogue Art, along the lines of: 'Why I think Isonoe feet don't work', or in Techiepedia, a thread along the lines of: 'Why I think the Technics SL-1200 is flawed and not worthy of extensively modifying', then you are most welcome, otherwise I must ask that you make no further OT comments on Tony's thread.

Cheers :cool:

Marco.

Finaly. :)

[Clive197]

As we are on the subject of feet. At last weekend HiFi show I came across the Townsend Audio stand. Max the owner was busy telling anybody in earshot how good his supports for equipment/speakers were. I asked him about feet for the Techie and he showed me his latest creation which looked about the same size as the Isonoe's but worked on a completely different method. They were pneumatic. The cost seemed a little steep to me at £460 a set. Max said they only make them to order as they manufacture for the specific weight of item they sit under.
I wonder if any of you guys have any experience or thoughts on this?

[twotone]

As we are on the subject of feet. At last weekend HiFi show I came across the Townsend Audio stand. Max the owner was busy telling anybody in earshot how good his supports for equipment/speakers were. I asked him about feet for the Techie and he showed me his latest creation which looked about the same size as the Isonoe's but worked on a completely different method. They were pneumatic. The cost seemed a little steep to me at £460 a set. Max said they only make them to order as they manufacture for the specific weight of item they sit under.
I wonder if any of you guys have any experience or thoughts on this?

£460 a set or £115 a foot?

The world of HiFi is mad:mental:

[Wakefield Turntables]

Not a slur on you clive, but £460 for a set of feet, audiophoolery if you ask me.

[Clive197]

Andrew I wasn't planning on buying them, just bringing there existence to the forum for comments on the technology.

On a personal note I think the people who buy them have more money than sense. Max Townsend has always known how to charge for his products.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Well I suppose if they do the trick and the person is happy spending £460 then good luck to them. I'd sooner spend £460 on a nice valve amp to restore or a bit of vintage hifi kit.

[twotone]

Well I suppose if they do the trick and the person is happy spending £460 then good luck to them. I'd sooner spend £460 on a nice valve amp to restore or a bit of vintage hifi kit.

I'd rather spend £460 on a week in Spain but that's just me:cool:

jamon e Queso por favor, mas cerveza hombre!:eek:

[Ammonite Audio]

On a personal note I think the people who buy them have more money than sense. Max Townsend has always known how to charge for his products.

Max Townsend is in business and presumably intends to remain in business. That's all.

[Andrei]

It's funny. I just fitted a new stylus to my 1200, which is completely stock except for mat and headshell
Right you are there Martin. At the moment my 1210 has just the following mods: headshell mat, & feet - and sounds pretty darn good.

[CageyH]

So, trying to drag this back onto topic, should I get the Isonoe Sorbothane boots with or without the glass discs?
My deck sits on a glass shelf, so are the glass discs really necessary?

[RobbieGong]

So, trying to drag this back onto topic, should I get the Isonoe Sorbothane boots with or without the glass discs?
My deck sits on a glass shelf, so are the glass discs really necessary?

Mine sits on a glass shelf too Kevin, Personally I wouldnt bother with the glass discs as the Isonoes are said to be most ideal on glass. I've always prefered the sound of my Techie with the Isonoes sitting on the shelf 'naked' ;) Others have experimented and like other permutations :)

[MartinT]

I bought the glass discs but preferred the sound of the Isonoes directly on the wooden shelf of my system rack. Now I find that the combination of Isonoes and Techniboots is even better.

[Clive197]

My vote is the boots without the glass inserts.

My Techie sits on a 10mm glass shelf and I thought the bass was a bit lacking so I added the boots. Now sounds great with very detailed bass.

[Wakefield Turntables]

I've tried sorbothane and glass coasters under the isonoes and found the sonics to have a ringing quality, mind you I did do the experiment with a AT0C9/II which is known for its shouty nature. Perhaps I should should re-try but from what I can remember it didn't suit my system at all as it seemed to rob life out of the music. Ths may be explained as my system being over-dampened as it sits on a wooden shelf, this plus the sorbothane was probably a step too far. Glass on the
other hand is different and I've heard people complain of a "ringing" quality to music when equipment is placed upon such shelves. So it may be the Sorbothane which is eliminating this quality out of the music and giving the result of improved sonics? Just my thoughts....

[Clive197]

I've tried sorbothane and glass coasters under the isonoes and found the sonics to have a ringing quality, mind you I did do the experiment with a AT0C9/II which is known for its shouty nature. Perhaps I should should re-try but from what I can remember it didn't suit my system at all as it seemed to rob life out of the music. Ths may be explained as my system being over-dampened as it sits on a wooden shelf, this plus the sorbothane was probably a step too far. Glass on the
other hand is different and I've heard people complain of a "ringing" quality to music when equipment is placed upon such shelves. So it may be the Sorbothane which is eliminating this quality out of the music and giving the result of improved sonics? Just my thoughts....

It's interesting to read the comments about the Isonoes on a wooden surface. Isonoe state that the ball bearings are designed to sit on glass but this is opposite to my own experience.

It would seem that you need the boots if your Techie sits on a glass shelf and the boots are not required when sitting on a wooden shelf. The glass inserts for the boots remain a mystery to me.

[Wakefield Turntables]

Clive,

I've had my 1210 sitting on glass coasters and sorbothane and in the end I like it just plain vanilla on my wooden stand. Thats only my opinion but needless to say others will think different. It does not help matters as to why the Isonoes should sit on glass. It would help if the company could explain their logic but I have a funny feeling it's going to be the old standard, "because it sounds better"! :rolleyes:

Yours

Andy

[twotone]

It's interesting to read the comments about the Isonoes on a wooden surface. Isonoe state that the ball bearings are designed to sit on glass but this is opposite to my own experience.

It would seem that you need the boots if your Techie sits on a glass shelf and the boots are not required when sitting on a wooden shelf. The glass inserts for the boots remain a mystery to me.

Clive did you try the deck with isonoes and boots on a wooden base/shelf?

Reason I ask is because my own deck with isonoes and no boots sits on a wooden shelf.

Tony

[Clive197]

Clive,

I've had my 1210 sitting on glass coasters and sorbothane and in the end I like it just plain vanilla on my wooden stand. Thats only my opinion but needless to say others will think different. It does not help matters as to why the Isonoes should sit on glass. It would help if the company could explain their logic but I have a funny feeling it's going to be the old standard, "because it sounds better"! :rolleyes:

Yours

Andy

Andy

I would tend to agree with you:)

Clive

[CageyH]

Has anybody done a comparison between Techniboots and the Isonoe shoes to see if there is a difference?
If there is, it must be marginal, but I am interested in the results. I only want to buy one set!

[Clive197]

Has anybody done a comparison between Techniboots and the Isonoe shoes to see if there is a difference?
If there is, it must be marginal, but I am interested in the results. I only want to buy one set!

Hi Kevin

David at Mains Cables R Us sells both Isonoe and Techniboots, so might be worth asking him.

Clive

[Wakefield Turntables]

Has anybody done a comparison between Techniboots and the Isonoe shoes to see if there is a difference?
If there is, it must be marginal, but I am interested in the results. I only want to buy one set!


Yes! I used 12mm Sorbothane under my Isonoes which is considerably thicker than the techniboots. I concluded it robbed some of the visceral punch out of the 1210 and music just seemed dull and bloated. Remove the Sorbothane and my old 1210 returned.

[MartinT]

For me, the Techniboots over Isonoes give incredible isolation. I can jump up and down in front of the deck and it won't skip. I haven't heard any negative effects: the Technics still sounds as vibrant and dynamic as ever.

[MCRU]

For me, the Techniboots over Isonoes give incredible isolation. I can jump up and down in front of the deck and it won't skip. I haven't heard any negative effects: the Technics still sounds as vibrant and dynamic as ever.

Well said mate.

The techniboots have been custom designed just for the Techie, nothing else. They even work if you take off the existing feet or your isonoes and slot them over the outer hub where the moulding forms a circle, I know that because I tried them 3 days ago when a friend came round and robbed my own techniboots to try.

Anyone who wants to try them or the isonoe feet without parting with any wonga feel free to pm your details and I will send you a set to try.

[twotone]

Well said mate.

The techniboots have been custom designed just for the Techie, nothing else. They even work if you take off the existing feet or your isonoes and slot them over the outer hub where the moulding forms a circle, I know that because I tried them 3 days ago when a friend came round and robbed my own techniboots to try.

Anyone who wants to try them or the isonoe feet without parting with any wonga feel free to pm your details and I will send you a set to try.

PM sent.

[MCRU]

pm sent.

a set on the way for trial dude

[twotone]

a set on the way for trial dude

Thank, yer a diamond:cool:

[twotone]

The techniboots turned up today, thanks for that.

First impressions are very good, very good indeed, the music is certainly much more isolated and bass is nice and tight.

Tony

[MartinT]

First impressions are very good, very good indeed, the music is certainly much more isolated and bass is nice and tight.

Good, good. My findings, too :)

[Clive197]

My Isonoes do the same thing, but didn't someone ask what's the difference between the Isonoes and the Technoboots.
I admit to being curious about that, even though I have doubts about there being any discernible differences.

[MartinT]

You misunderstand. We're using Techniboots with Isonoes.

[twotone]

You misunderstand. We're using Techniboots with Isonoes.

Yep that's what I'm using at the minute and although I don't like the look of the techniboots with the Isonoes there's no denying that the sound has tightened up significantly.

Definitely isolated in space that is where the music is now and as i said before the bass is really defined.

For ten quid a foot it really is something to consider.

I'm still evaluating but only in the sense I'm not sure if I like the look, soundwise is a different proposition though.

Tony

[MartinT]

I'm not bothered about the looks. It's kind of heavy industry anyway what with my Dynavector arm.

The sense of isolation from the outside world with the combined Isonoes and Techniboots is extraordinary. The bass, as you say, is very well defined and the structure and solidity of the music gives great insight.

[Clive197]

You misunderstand. We're using Techniboots with Isonoes.

Martin, I don't think I got it wrong but I may not have made myself very clear.

The discussion as I understood it and replied to was between the Isonoe Boots and the Technoboots when used on the Isonoe Feet.

In reply to Twotone, I agree the Technoboots are not very pretty, which is why I bought the Isonoe Boots. As I have already said, I'm curious about the sound difference between the two boots.

Clive

[twotone]

Martin, I don't think I got it wrong but I may not have made myself very clear.

The discussion as I understood it and replied to was between the Isonoe Boots and the Technoboots when used on the Isonoe Feet.

In reply to Twotone, I agree the Technoboots are not very pretty, which is why I bought the Isonoe Boots. As I have already said, I'm curious about the sound difference between the two boots.

Clive

Why don't you have a set sent to you Clive and try out the two different boots?

You've nothing really to lose as you'll sell the isonoe boots no problem if you prefer the techniboots IMO.

[CageyH]

That would be great.
It's a question I have been pondering. I have a set of Techniboots on the way, but no Isonoe boots to compare them against.

[Clive197]

Why don't you have a set sent to you Clive and try out the two different boots?

You've nothing really to lose as you'll sell the isonoe boots no problem if you prefer the techniboots IMO.

Tony I really can't be asked. I don't think there is going to be a significant difference, I was just curious.

[RobbieGong]

Tony I really can't be asked. I don't think there is going to be a significant difference, I was just curious.

Hi Clive, There is a difference as in the presentation changes. As with all these things it's whether someone trying it prefers the change they hear ie: discerns it as an improvement / positive or not. I personally prefered without but I can say the change wasnt drastic but most definately a change.

[twotone]

Hi Clive, There is a difference as in the presentation changes. As with all these things it's whether someone trying it prefers the change they hear ie: discerns it as an improvement / positive or not. I personally prefered without but I can say the change wasnt drastic but most definately a change.

Well in my case there is defintely a big difference.

My TT is just sitting on a old hi-fi stand, bit pish to be honest, but with just the isonoes the sound is really excellent but the music sounds a wee bit muddled at times with some of the complex stuff sort of running into instruments and being a bit incoherent bit of a mess IMO.

With the tecniboots and the isonoes the music is pin sharp, vocals and instruments are seperate and bass is astonishing.

Almost like all of the components of the music are lined up and standing to attention, like soldiers marching off the parade ground, i.e. row one goes away followed by row two and so on but without the techniboots it's more like three or four rows of soldiers all moving off together and going in different directions.

The techniboots seemed to gather all of the music in one place and sort of say 'right guitar off you go, now you piano it's your turn, over there please, drums your next over there at the left if you don't mind, thank you!'

Not entirely sure if I like this sort of ordered sound though.

Tony

[Clive197]

Well in my case there is defintely a big difference.

My TT is just sitting on a old hi-fi stand, bit pish to be honest, but with just the isonoes the sound is really excellent but the music sounds a wee bit muddled at times with some of the complex stuff sort of running into instruments and being a bit incoherent bit of a mess IMO.

With the tecniboots and the isonoes the music is pin sharp, vocals and instruments are seperate and bass is astonishing.

Almost like all of the components of the music are lined up and standing to attention, like soldiers marching off the parade ground, i.e. row one goes away followed by row two and so on but without the techniboots it's more like three or four rows of soldiers all moving off together and going in different directions.

The techniboots seemed to gather all of the music in one place and sort of say 'right guitar off you go, now you piano it's your turn, over there please, drums your next over there at the left if you don't mind, thank you!'

Not entirely sure if I like this sort of ordered sound though.

Tony

Tony, I'm a little confused. Did you previously have the Isonoe Boots and are now trying the Technoboots or are you just putting the Technoboots on and noticing the change they make on your Isonoe's.
I think RobbieGong is saying he has tried both the boots but again I'm not sure.

Clive

[Stratmangler]

Tony, I'm a little confused. Did you previously have the Isonoe Boots and are now trying the Technoboots or are you just putting the Technoboots on and noticing the change they make on your Isonoe's.
I think RobbieGong is saying he has tried both the boots but again I'm not sure.

Clive

I'm similarly confused :scratch:
I have Isonoes on my deck, and have used them with the Isonoe Boots right from the off. I did try the Isonoes without the Boots initially, and preferred things with the Boots in place.

I haven't tried the Techniboots at all, and wonder if there's any difference using them instead of the Isonoe Boots.

[twotone]

Tony, I'm a little confused. Did you previously have the Isonoe Boots and are now trying the Technoboots or are you just putting the Technoboots on and noticing the change they make on your Isonoe's.
I think RobbieGong is saying he has tried both the boots but again I'm not sure.

Clive

Hi Clive, I only had the isonoes then MRCUs sent me a set of techniboots to try with the isonoe feet.

I never got round to buying the isononoe boots with or without the glass coasters, I was about to buy the isonoe boots until said offer from MCRUs.

I'm currently listening to John Martyn's Solid Air and have to say that the sound is probably the best that I've ever heard on vinyl in my system, this is with isonoe feet and techniboots.

[Stratmangler]

I'm currently listening to John Martyn's Solid Air and have to say that the sound is probably the best that I've evef heard on vinyl, this is with isonoe feet and techniboots.

That's cheating - Solid Air sounds great no matter what you play it on :D

[twotone]

I'm similarly confused :scratch:
I have Isonoes on my deck, and have used them with the Isonoe Boots right from the off. I did try the Isonoes without the Boots initially, and preferred things with the Boots in place.

I haven't tried the Techniboots at all, and wonder if there's any difference using them instead of the Isonoe Boots.


I am seriously considering buying a set of Isonoe bootsto compare against the techniboots.

Or perhaps some kind soul could send me a set to try:cool:

[twotone]

That's cheating - Solid Air sounds great no matter what you play it on :D

True Chris probably one of The Great albums in the last sixty years, the guitar playing is amazing.

[CageyH]

I have also now tried the techniboots on my Isonoe feet.
The difference between bare foot and booted is not massive, but their is a subtle difference.
It's hard to describe the difference, but it's a sound I prefer.

It's almost as it is more open and spatious. Bass seems tighter as well.
There also seems to be better definition. For the price, they are staying.

They certainly have helped with isolating the deck, which is on a standard rack on a suspended wooden floor, which is an added bonus.

[twotone]

I have also now tried the techniboots on my Isonoe feet.
The difference between bare foot and booted is not massive, but their is a subtle difference.
It's hard to describe the difference, but it's a sound I prefer.

It's almost as it is more open and spatious. Bass seems tighter as well.
There also seems to be better definition. For the price, they are staying.

They certainly have helped with isolating the deck, which is on a standard rack on a suspended wooden floor, which is an added bonus.

I agree Kevin, the diffrence isn't massive but there is a bit of a difference and at the price they are definitely worth it.

I've been listening to them on and off the deck the entire week but couldn't really come to a conclusion however my wife, who has no interest in hi-fi, said that she prefers the sound with the boots on so I'm buying them too.

Tony

[twotone]

a set on the way for trial dude

Thanks for this,great offer BTW.

PM sent regarding payment.

Tony

[MCRU]

Thanks for this,great offer BTW.

PM sent regarding payment.

Tony

0% OVER 12 YEARS OK? 27P A MONTH? :lol:

anyone else wants to trial some let me know

[Tarzan]

0% OVER 12 YEARS OK? 27P A MONTH? :lol:

anyone else wants to trial some let me know


l'll take a MN bearing at that rate.

[MCRU]

l'll take a MN bearing at that rate.

that rate is for people I like :ner:

your rate is 2850% APR same as wonga.com :lol:

[keiron99]

Are the Isonoe feet much taller than the stock feet?
Can't help thinking they look disproportionately large on the Technics.

[RobbieGong]

Are the Isonoe feet much taller than the stock feet?
Can't help thinking they look disproportionately large on the Technics.

Hi Kieron, They are very similar in size (maybe slightly taller). They've largly been available in silver which can give the imppression of being bigger against the black of the SL1210.

[MartinT]

I wouldn't say they're any larger than the Technics feet, just very much more effective.

[keiron99]

Shame the rubber band things are red rather than a more sober black.

I have the option to buy a used set for £70 (silver, would prefer black). What is the going rate second hand? They don't seem to come up that often.

[twotone]

That's what I paid for set including postage I think.

[Marco]

Shame the rubber band things are red rather than a more sober black.

I have the option to buy a used set for £70 (silver, would prefer black). What is the going rate second hand? They don't seem to come up that often.

Hi Keiron,

You have a PM :)

Marco.

[oxela23]

Hi twotone

Although I haven't got round to upgrading the stock arm as first expected/discussed here, I have managed to add isonoe feet this week and SL achromat is ordered. I agree with your comments regarding the separation and overall sonic improvements these feet bring to the 1210....wow!

Im interested to hear peoples comments too about the boots and their benefits/differences. Is one better suited to different surfaces etc?

[Andrei]

I have the boots for the Isonoes but can't detect the difference with/without. What I don't have is the little glass inserts for the boots - too expensive. I will get a glazier to make some and see if that changes things.

[CageyH]

My HiFi rack is on a suspended wooden floor. Not ideal and a wall mount shelf is on the to do list.
The Techniboots seperate the deck from any vibration due to foot fall on the suspended floor.
This was the main selling point for me, so if you have isolation problems they are definitely worth trying. If you don't, it's still worth having a chat to David at MCRU as be will probably be happy to send you a set to try out before you commit to a purchase.

[MartinT]

I also use Techniboots as opposed to the Isonoe boots with my Isonoe feet. I tried the glass feet and didn't like them. The sense of isolation and resistance to feedback effects even at high volume are amazing.

[twotone]

Me too I also have the techniboots with the isonoe feet they're £37 posted from MCRUS.

[chris@panteg]

I also use Techniboots as opposed to the Isonoe boots with my Isonoe feet. I tried the glass feet and didn't like them. The sense of isolation and resistance to feedback effects even at high volume are amazing.

Hi Martin, do you think I should try the techniboots as feedback is problem here, affecting my amp as well hence my need for a new support for that, but my techie sits atop a tripod 4 tier stand with a substantial Notts analog board on top.

The floor is suspended and quite bouncy.

[MartinT]

Techniboots will certainly help, Chris. Do you already have Isonoes fitted? Techniboots will work with either stock Technics feet or Isonoes.

[chris@panteg]

Techniboots will certainly help, Chris. Do you already have Isonoes fitted? Techniboots will work with either stock Technics feet or Isonoes.

Yes I have Isonoes, I found they only work properly on a solid surface, I was using the NA board with its compliant rubber feet on top of of another board with the Isonoes on top, this I think was preventing them from working.

If I rapped the NA board, it went straight through my speakers, removing the bottom board and resting the NA board on spikes, now I get nothing through my speakers, this has made a difference.

[MartinT]

If I rap my system rack hard with the volume up, I get nothing with the Isonoes and Techniboots.

[Marco]

Basically, it's a case of whatever works best in your circumstances and system, and so different rules will apply depending on that.

I've found that Isonoes work optimally on glass, and by that I don't mean sticking some glass cups underneath them: I mean on a purpose-built rack, which contains glass shelves, and so in my system, with Mana, I found that fitting the Techniboots was a retrograde step, as it diluted the effectiveness of the Isonoes (and probably the Mana, too) and produced an 'over-damped' effect, as can happen sometimes when the use of Sorbothane is introduced.

Removing the Techniboots, and allowing the Isonoes to perform to their full abilities, on their optimal (glass) interface, opened up the sound and removed a thickness and veiling, which the boots had introduced.

However, like I said, results will be totally different when using Isonoes elsewhere, on a non-glass surface. Indeed, I know that's the case, as in Martin's system there is no sense of any negative effect, with the use of the Techniboots. Therefore, as ever with these things, simply suck it and see! :)

Marco.

[chris@panteg]

Mmm, interesting Marco and it does sort of make sense, even though I dislike glass poorly implemented but in your system I can quite see that works.

I have a thick piece of glass I could try on the tripod stand, sitting in the spikes, I did try it before but used some focalpods under the glass and it was awful.

This time just straight onto the spikes, it's worth a try it's the only way you learn things.

[Marco]

It's certainly worth a try, Chris, as like you say, it's the only way you learn :)

Interestingly, moving the Techniboots onto my DAC, which also sits on Mana (glass shelves), produced a positive effect, but then the Sony DAC doesn't have Isonoes fitted - only its stock feet, so what does that tell you...? ;)

Answer: that Isonoes work best directly on glass shelves - at least that's the case in my system.

Marco.

[costerdock]

I'm looking forward to the first picture of the technics with the black Isones - I think it will look sharp.

[RobbieGong]

My findings same as Marcos - Issones on glass shelf great, with Techieboots, awful. Best way is to experiment ;)

[RobbieGong]

I'm looking forward to the first picture of the technics with the black Isones - I think it will look sharp.

You and me both Chris - To use a word from this forum, I'm gonna 'snaffle' a set at some point -
( love that word - snaffle snaffle snaffle !) :lol:

[costerdock]

My findings same as Marcos - Issones on glass shelf great, with Techieboots, awful. Best way is to experiment ;)

Not that looks are important - but come on -don't cover up those Isonoes. I've tested my Isonoes on my glass shelf - with extremely high volumes - vibrations eliminated on the plinth - I'll pass on those boots.

[RobbieGong]

Not that looks are important - but come on -don't cover up those Isonoes. I've tested my Isonoes on my glass shelf - with extremely high volumes - vibrations eliminated on the plinth - I'll pass on those boots.

Yeah, I'm a bit fickle like that, didnt like the look either. That said I can understand why someone would keep them if the all important sonics were improved.

[CageyH]

I don't think the Isonoe looks are that special. In my opinion, they are a bit out of proportion and make the deck look like it's sat too high. Probably because they are silver in colour.
If I didn't have the Techniboots, I'd probably look at getting them anodised black.

I didn't buy them for their looks though!

[costerdock]

I don't think the Isonoe looks are that special. In my opinion, they are a bit out of proportion and make the deck look like it's sat too high. Probably because they are silver in colour.
If I didn't have the Techniboots, I'd probably look at getting them anodised black.

I didn't buy them for their looks though!

We will have to agree to disagree.

[CageyH]

I think it all depends on if they are fitted to an SL1200 or SL1210, and of course the most important thing, personal taste.
So of course, I agree.

I don't really see why they should be so tall for the function they provide. I have also thought about cutting down my Techniboots but as the deck is sounding good, I'll leave it alone - for now!

[MartinT]

I know what you guys mean about the over-damping effects of sorbothane - I've certainly been down that route and I've got a lot of spare sorbothane feet as a result. Under phono amp, preamp, power amp I get the dreaded deadening effect and took them out pronto.

My 1210 is different. Isonoes are a very positive addition on my sprung wood/metal rack. Great isolation. When I tried the Isonoe glass coasters under the feet, I didn't like them. Now add Techniboots and the isolation effect is even more pronounced (giving me three levels of isolation - rack > Techniboots > Isonoes) and - here is the thing - none of that deadening effect. It's as neutral, punchy and dynamic as ever.

Definitely a synergy thing.

[Andrei]

My 1210 is different. Isonoes are a very positive addition on my sprung wood/metal rack. Great isolation. When I tried the Isonoe glass coasters under the feet, I didn't like them. Now add Techniboots and the isolation effect is even more pronounced (giving me three levels of isolation - rack > Techniboots > Isonoes) and - here is the thing - none of that deadening effect. It's as neutral, punchy and dynamic as ever.

Have you tried the Isonoes with the glass coasters inside the Techniboots?

[MartinT]

I've never even thought of it!

[Marco]

Could be an interesting one to try... :)

As far as aesthetics go, I have to agree with others that I'm not a fan of how the boots look under Isonoes, fitted to a Technics T/T. For me, they just look clumsy and out of place (sorry, Martin).

I've recently swapped to using the black Isonoes, and au naturel, they look superb against the somewhat 'sober' aesthetic of the SL-1210. I'll take some pics when I get a chance!

Marco.

[RobbieGong]

Could be an interesting one to try... :)

As far as aesthetics go, I have to agree with others that I'm not a fan of how the boots look under Isonoes, fitted to a Technics T/T. For me, they just look clumsy and out of place (sorry, Martin).

I've recently swapped to using the black Isonoes, and au naturel, they look superb against the somewhat 'sober' aesthetic of the SL-1210. I'll take some pics when I get a chance!

Marco.

Cool ! - A few of us waitin' for dat one Marco ;)

[MartinT]

I really - and I say this in all seriousness - couldn't give a toss what they look like. The sound is everything, and the sound is sublime.

[Clive197]

I really - and I say this in all seriousness - couldn't give a toss what they look like. The sound is everything, and the sound is sublime.

Hear hear.:):):)

[Marco]

Lol, quite right, Martin. I've heard it, and I agree! It's the same chez-moi, sans Techniboots... :eyebrows:

Marco.

[costerdock]

Maybe if those techno boots had some badass silver spurs:scratch:

[RobbieGong]

Could be an interesting one to try... :)

As far as aesthetics go, I have to agree with others that I'm not a fan of how the boots look under Isonoes, fitted to a Technics T/T. For me, they just look clumsy and out of place (sorry, Martin).

I've recently swapped to using the black Isonoes, and au naturel, they look superb against the somewhat 'sober' aesthetic of the SL-1210. I'll take some pics when I get a chance!

Marco.

Hows it goin Marco ? Any chance of a shot ?

[chris@panteg]

It's certainly worth a try, Chris, as like you say, it's the only way you learn :)

Interestingly, moving the Techniboots onto my DAC, which also sits on Mana (glass shelves), produced a positive effect, but then the Sony DAC doesn't have Isonoes fitted - only its stock feet, so what does that tell you...? ;)

Answer: that Isonoes work best directly on glass shelves - at least that's the case in my system.

Marco.


Well I tried a thick piece of glass sat on top of upward metal cones sat on the Notts analog board.

It seated perfectly, didn't work for me I'm afraid, sounded lively but interestingly flattened the soundstage? With what sounded like an artificial tonal balance but worse of all the bass had this boomy quality which was awful.

Putting it back straight onto the Notts analog board was quite a relief!!

[MartinT]

Close to my findings, Chris. I just didn't like the Isonoes on their dedicated glass coasters. Much better directly on my wooden system rack. I found it flattened perspectives and dynamics.

[RochaCullen]

Got a set of black isonoes yesterday from MCRU, only managed to plumb them in last night, but listening will have to be reserved till later on in the week. They do look the part on my SL1210, and if I can discern a difference in sound quality I may even get a set for my SLP 1200. I have them sitting on 30mm of granite so coasters are not really a requirement I would have thought.

[Tarzan]

Piccies please Nathan.:)

[chris@panteg]

Close to my findings, Chris. I just didn't like the Isonoes on their dedicated glass coasters. Much better directly on my wooden system rack. I found it flattened perspectives and dynamics.

Yes that's very similar to how I would describe it Martin, sounded boring or uninteresting, worth trying though.

[worrasf]

FWIW I didn't really get on with the Isonoe's on my 1210 - mind you they looked mighty fine. My TT is on a wall mounted Target shelf with a Isokinetik acrylic base - so pretty well isolated. I found that the Vantage rubber cone feet set on Sound Dead Steel "coasters" sounded "better" so that's what I've stuck with.

[chris@panteg]

FWIW I didn't really get on with the Isonoe's on my 1210 - mind you they looked mighty fine. My TT is on a wall mounted Target shelf with a Isokinetik acrylic base - so pretty well isolated. I found that the Vantage rubber cone feet set on Sound Dead Steel "coasters" sounded "better" so that's what I've stuck with.

I have a set of those feet Steve, they work well! Might try them again now I've got my racks sorted out.

[worrasf]

Hi Chris - thanks for the cartridge - all arrived well - I tried to PM you but your inbox was full
Steve

[chris@panteg]

Thanks Steve, inbox cleared.

[RochaCullen]

Sorry for taking so long Andy...


Piccies please Nathan.:)



http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/Isonoe1210/1210AllColour.jpg



http://i830.photobucket.com/albums/zz230/rochaCullen/Isonoe1210/1210FeetColour.jpg



I like 'em. :)

Pics are a bit dark, but you get the idea.

[Tarzan]

Very nice Nathan! They look cool.:eek:

[MCRU]

Black isonoes do look great I have to say.

[Tarzan]

Black isonoes do look great I have to say.


Which ones sound better though?

[RochaCullen]

Which ones sound better though?

;)

[Andrei]

Which ones sound better though?
It's all about synergy, didn't you know. The black's go particularly well with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge, while the silver ones shine with a Benz Ace SM.

[6L6]

I just got a set of black Isonoes, there seem to be too many people on this forum who think they are the bee's knees, and with that much brouhaha surrounding them they are worth a try.

Yep. They are awesome.

(And look rather sporting as well, I got the black ones from KAB.)

[Qwin]

Has anyone done a direct comparison between the Isonoes and simple Sorbothane Semi Spheres, the large 50mm dia ones.

I ask the question because the upgrade path for the Isonoes is to slap a sheet of Sorbothane under them! :D

[Stratmangler]

I have.
The Isonoes are altogether better than just the sorbethane hemispheres.
I have always used sorbethane boots with my Isonoes - I bought them at the same time.

[Qwin]

OK - Thats good to know.

[MartinT]

Has anyone done a direct comparison between the Isonoes and simple Sorbothane Semi Spheres, the large 50mm dia ones.

I switched from Foculpods (semi-spheres which exactly fit the footer well) to Isonoes. The Isonoes gave a cleaner sound with better defined bass, in particular.

[6L6]

Has anyone done a direct comparison between the Isonoes and simple Sorbothane Semi Spheres, the large 50mm dia ones.

Yes, I had Sorbothane as you describe before the Isonoes. The do sound fantastic and are a huge step up from the stock feet. Actually the reason I was so interested in the Isonoe was because of their easy ability to level the turntable, something that the sorbothane is greatly lacking. In fact, if leveling wasn't such a pain I would be tempted to keep the sorbothane...

Regardless, the Isonoes are wonderful and I have no regrets having them at all. The increase in sound quality is very similar to the change from the stock mat to the Acromat, which is to say distinct and completely positive. :)

Not the biggest single improvement I've one to the table, (the DC PSU is by and far a huge and dramatic step forward) but a wonderful and recommended modification.

[Qwin]

Right - I'm convinced, though deck leveling is not a problem for me as my top shelf is adjustable.

I allready have a spare set of spheres so I will initially use these on my "Techie III" build currently under way.
But I will install M6 inserts into the plinth base to upgrade to Isonoes at a later date. ;)

One of the things that has concerned me of late is the uneven weight distribution of the deck on complient feet of whatever type.
I will be looking at this and balancing the deck, with arm and record in place so the feet all see the same weight. If nothing else it will just sit level and avoid excessive levelling compensation.

[Andrei]

One of the things that has concerned me of late is the uneven weight distribution of the deck on complient feet of whatever type.
I will be looking at this and balancing the deck, with arm and record in place so the feet all see the same weight. If nothing else it will just sit level and avoid excessive levelling compensation.
I have my 1200 on a granite slab that I have made sure is 100% level. It also occurred to me that the weight distribution could be a little off so I have once again used my spirit level to ensure that the table - platter actually - is level. It was an eensy weensy bit out. Still not a problem 'cause the Isonoes can be individually adjusted.
As an aside, I have the Boots but don't use them. They are ugly and I have managed to persuade myself that they don't make a sonic difference.

[Qwin]

Andrei - The idea behind the even weight distribution is that although you can level the platter by adjusting the height of either the Isonoes or the slab they sit on, what is taking place is uneven loading and elongation accross the 4 feet. The uneven loading will mean the feet will all react differently to any vibration. By applying an equal load at least they will all react the same. Its a minor point, but if we are going to extremes in fitting these kind of divices, we may as well try and optimise their performance.

A DIY (solid) plinth is likely to have greater differences - my concrete plinth definitely suffured in this way and you could see the Sorbothane spheres were compressed by different amounts.

I did the same kind of balancing on a sub chassis of a suspended deck. This loaded the springs evenly and gave an even bounce. It was probably more relevant in that application but I think it could be usefull for the Technics. Until I measure the difference it will be difficult to come up with a suitable solution, i.e. is it grams or kilos difference. And whether it is practical to attempt a soloution in the first place. :)

[Andrei]

Andrei - The idea behind the even weight distribution is that although you can level the platter by adjusting the height of either the Isonoes or the slab they sit on, what is taking place is uneven loading and elongation accross the 4 feet. The uneven loading will mean the feet will all react differently to any vibration. By applying an equal load at least they will all react the same. Its a minor point, but if we are going to extremes in fitting these kind of divices, we may as well try and optimise their performance.

A DIY (solid) plinth is likely to have greater differences - my concrete plinth definitely suffured in this way and you could see the Sorbothane spheres were compressed by different amounts.

I did the same kind of balancing on a sub chassis of a suspended deck. This loaded the springs evenly and gave an even bounce. It was probably more relevant in that application but I think it could be usefull for the Technics. Until I measure the difference it will be difficult to come up with a suitable solution, i.e. is it grams or kilos difference. And whether it is practical to attempt a soloution in the first place. :)

I like the principle. Aim for 100% and if you fall short then that is the measure of the success. If you aim for 'High' and you fall short the measure of success will be different. As mentioned the level of the platter can be still be corrected to horizontal; but I agree that each Isonoe will react differently if it bears a different weight. If this is an all-ought assault on perfection you could somehow measure this difference and the strategically add weight inside the plinth (there is plenty of room) to compensate. You could use a damping material while you are about it. I would be surprised if it made an audible difference though. But 100% ...

[MartinT]

Sounds sensible, but only if you can move the feet (as I can under my SACD player). Put each foot on a digital scale and you will see the relative weight taken by each.

[Qwin]

I am scratching round to try and get 4 sets of scales to use.

Its far easier that way, it takes ages with just one set being moved round and round till you get it right.

I am looking at having pockets in each corner of the plywood plinth I am working on, which can have weights inserted.

[6L6]

Sweet mother of god, what are in these Isonoes? I am sitting in disbelief of how good everything is sounding. I can't describe exactly objectively what I'm hearing that's different/better, but the best description I can come up with is that the "more real" knob got turned way up...

[Andrei]

Sweet mother of god, what are in these Isonoes? I am sitting in disbelief of how good everything is sounding. I can't describe exactly objectively what I'm hearing that's different/better, but the best description I can come up with is that the "more real" knob got turned way up...
In my humble opinion Isonoes are the single best upgrade to a 1210 / 1200. Glad they float your boat.

[CageyH]

I think it depends on when you add the feet to what impact you will get.
My biggest improvement came from a cartridge swap, but everything else was in place to support this.

I do remember being pleasantly surprised about what the Isonoes did when I first fitted them. Not bad for some elastic bands! Such a simple idea, but beautifully executed. Top notch machining. It's a shame I covered mine up with Techniboots but they improved the sound further.

[MartinT]

It's a shame I covered mine up with Techniboots but they improved the sound further.

They certainly do. They make a fantastic combination.

[Qwin]

Got my set of Black Isonoes, they look fab but..........

Did a trial fit on the plinth I am building and inserted the thread about 7mm (6 to 9mm advised in instructions).

The deck was on its back as no arm or platter/bearing is fitted yet.

I applied a little downward presure with the palm of my hand to simulate the weight of the deck, so only light pressure. I found the compliant bush compressed a little taking all the load off the centre fixing screw which then was free to move around and I could hear a metalic chatty noise as the threads were free to rattle about because of the only a short distance that is engaged on the fairly course thread.

So the deck is just sat on the foam bush and the bolt just sits there loose in the thread keeping everything roughly in position.

To keep any tension on the bolt at all, you have to make sure that the compression applied to the foam bush is greater than the load applied by the weight of the deck. The load on the bolt, to stop it rattling, is the difference between the two. It all seems a bit messy to me.

I don't like this at all.

I may replace the foam with a nylon bush and screw it up nice and solid. Its the rubber bands ("O" rings) that are the real isolating method, the bolt defeats the bush as its conected to both sides and introduces loose metal to metal contact as it stands which can't be good.

Just did a quick test with a hard plastc spacer, the whole thing feels so much more purposeful like this, I can now shake the foot about by hand and there is no sidewards slop or metal to metal chatter and the bands just flex as they should. I will be fitting them like this. ;)

[Andrei]

Not sure if I get this. What is the 'compliant bush'? Is it the sorbothane? Also do they not screw in? ie do the nut and bolt not match?

[keiron99]

The issue I have with theses feet is that because my turntable is not on a level surface, I need to use the feet to level things up. I therefore have some feet where the compliant spacer is quite compressed, and others where it is barely touching the turntable at all. Surely not ideal, although in reality I am not sure it matters that much?

[Qwin]

Andrei - They screw in but the bolt is never under any real tension and when the weight of the deck is on the feet the presure is reduced to almost nothing so the bolt is barely contacting and loose. You could actualy remove the bolt completely as it serves no real purpose when the weight is on the foot. The weight presses on the foam bush which presses on the centre hub the rubber bands are attached to, the bolt is simply centering everything and stopping the foot from sliding around on the base of the deck. Because the bolt is a fixed length it is being pushed away from the deck by the very light tension applied by the compression of the foam bush. When the weight of the deck is put on the foot the direction is reversed and the bolt is being pushed up into the captive nut, so the force is transfered to the oposite side of the thread. It is this balance of small presures deciding which direction the force is in, are you pushing or pulling on the bolt, which is only held on a few threads so not only can it move up and down but also be waggled side to side.

Lift one corner of your deck and press up on the foot it feels horrible and loose you can feel the play and chatter of the bolt in the threads. Maybe my threads are looser than some.

One way to counter act this would be to apply silicone sealant to the thread on the bolt, once this has set screw it in and it will act like a nylon lock nut and not have the play in the threads.

[Qwin]

Keiron - The instructions with mine say screw them in to the deck between 6 and 9mm and specifies not to go outside these limits for them to work correctly.

The thread sticks out of the foam bush by 6mm so when fitted it is in a range of barely making contact to being compressed by 3mm max.

I could achive the maximum compresion by tightening the bolt (cap head alen bolt) with my fingers, so not a great deal of resistance there from the foam bush.

[CageyH]

Are you saying that the bolt is loose in the deck, or on the feet?
I tightened mine up in the Isonoe side, and I have not had any issues with them being loose and knocking about?

[KC Jones]

Try this.

Here's what I do to all my threaded inserts, metal to metal threads etc. Get a roll of plumbers PTFE tape, (couple of £'s) and wrap a few turns round each thread before screwing in, this will give a snug damped fit and remove any play and vibrations etc. It has lots uses and is easy to remove too.
Cheers

[Qwin]

KC Jones - Yes the PTFE tape will do the same as the silicone sealant would.

CageyH- The foam boss that is used can be compressed between your fingers, I've tried it. We are only compressing the foam by a max of 3mm when we install the feet so yes the feet are attached loosely by only a few threads (6 to 9mm). When the deck is stood on the feet it takes the weight off the foam so it is actually sitting on the metal threads that are engaged. It is easy for it to wiggle about, try it if you don't believe me.

This is a completley crap way of attaching anything, let alone an isolation system. Because of varying production tolerances some thread matches are going to be better than others but it will never be tight. as soon as you apply enough presure to defeat the foam you reach a point where you are changing the direction of loading on the threads from a pull to a push and any play in the threads will be felt as a rattle.
I noticed this as soon as I fitted one, I was curious about how the rubber bands would feel under load and as I said earlier I applied a light pressure with the palm of my hand. I was immediately concerned by the way that it felt, to the point that I double checked I had understood the instructions and fitted them correctly.

If you look at speaker spikes, they usually have a lock nut, this is not to stop the spike unscrewing, it is to pull up the threads tight and stop any rattle or they won't work very well and the speaker would wobble about on the loose spikes. Its a similar thing with the way the Isonoes are fitted. The weight of the deck is greater than the pressure applied by the foam so it sits on the thread in a similar way to the spike situation.
If you say yours don't rattle, this may be because you have only looked at this when there is no weight on the foot and light foam pressure is taking up any play. Things may be different when you push against the foot as I did. The easy test is to remove the foam compleatly insert the foot 6 to 9mm and try wiggeling it with your fingers.

Even when fitted this way they will probably perform better than the stock foot, but not in my opinion as effective as they could be if held in the deck more securely.
I will definately not be fitting them as the instructions suggest.

[keiron99]

Even when fitted this way they will probably perform better than the stock foot, but not in my opinion as effective as they could be if held in the deck more securely.
I will definately not be fitting them as the instructions suggest.

I have to be honest, when I installed mine, I didn't notice any difference in the sound at all.

But then, I don't hear any difference when I change mats either...

[CageyH]

KC Jones - Yes the PTFE tape will do the same as the silicone sealant would.

CageyH- The foam boss that is used can be compressed between your fingers, I've tried it. We are only compressing the foam by a max of 3mm when we install the feet so yes the feet are attached loosely by only a few threads (6 to 9mm). When the deck is stood on the feet it takes the weight off the foam so it is actually sitting on the metal threads that are engaged. It is easy for it to wiggle about, try it if you don't believe me.

This is a completley crap way of attaching anything, let alone an isolation system. Because of varying production tolerances some thread matches are going to be better than others but it will never be tight. as soon as you apply enough presure to defeat the foam you reach a point where you are changing the direction of loading on the threads from a pull to a push and any play in the threads will be felt as a rattle.
I noticed this as soon as I fitted one, I was curious about how the rubber bands would feel under load and as I said earlier I applied a light pressure with the palm of my hand. I was immediately concerned by the way that it felt, to the point that I double checked I had understood the instructions and fitted them correctly.

If you look at speaker spikes, they usually have a lock nut, this is not to stop the spike unscrewing, it is to pull up the threads tight and stop any rattle or they won't work very well and the speaker would wobble about on the loose spikes. Its a similar thing with the way the Isonoes are fitted. The weight of the deck is greater than the pressure applied by the foam so it sits on the thread in a similar way to the spike situation.
If you say yours don't rattle, this may be because you have only looked at this when there is no weight on the foot and light foam pressure is taking up any play. Things may be different when you push against the foot as I did. The easy test is to remove the foam compleatly insert the foot 6 to 9mm and try wiggeling it with your fingers.

Even when fitted this way they will probably perform better than the stock foot, but not in my opinion as effective as they could be if held in the deck more securely.
I will definately not be fitting them as the instructions suggest.

I wound them in by hand until there was no rattle, and wound others in further until the deck was level. I didn't read the instructions supplied. :scratch:

[Qwin]

Again kevin - No rattle when you screw it up as the foam is applying light pressure. This is defeated when you put the weight of the deck on it.

I think the important thing here is to recognise that the foam is not contributing acoustically in any way as the weight sits on the securing bolts thread.

Plus when you take the rattle out of the threads, using PTFE tape or whatever you are making the attachment more secure between the deck and the centre hub of the foot.

So why not ditch the foam compleatly and use a nylon spacer that is bolted up nice and tight?

I've just orderd some nylon penny washers, M6 x 23.6mm dia to do just that.

Edit: Sorry Kevin forgot You are using tape on the threads which should Improve things.

[CageyH]

A nylon spacer, or a lock nut?
Could this issue be pronounced with the T nuts you are using, or is this on one of your other decks?

[keiron99]

So why not ditch the foam compleatly and use a nylon spacer that is bolted up nice and tight?



I just read about someone doing this on another forum.

Obviously then you can't use the feet to adjust how level the deck is.

Will you be placing it on an adjustable shelf?

[Qwin]

Kevin - just a plain M6 Nylon penny washer about 23mm diameter and 1.5mm thick in place of the foam bush.
I don't have a problem with the threads going in further due to the reduced spacer.
I am using t-nuts which may have a greater clearance (loosness) on the bolt thread but beleive me the T-nuts are not moving, they were staked onto counter bored holes in the plywood sandwhich so cant push out, plus the pilot hole for the threaded part was deliberately drilled 0.5mm undersize so they are an interferance fit, had to be driven in hard, are the long nosed version with 15mm of thread and dont move at all.

Keiron - It is worth noting that the manufacturers suggest the foam bush should not be compressed more than 3mm in the instructions. Bear this in mind when using them for leveling.
I think the foam is there purely to try and prevent the chatter in the threads which it fails miserably at doing under load, the whole principle is just wrong and I can't see the foam serving any useful purpose. Even removing it and fitting a locknut would be a big improvement in my opinion and useable for levelling. Yes I have an adjustable shelf.