View Full Version : Rega Dac
Ninanina
01-09-2013, 22:59
I have had a Rega Dac on loan for a few days from a very good friend
What a super bit of kit this is
It has made sooooo much difference to my Pioneer DVD/CD transport that I've recently purchased
I have just purchased a good, little used Rega on the Bay.....
I am really impressed with it
Anyone thinking of buying you cannot go wrong
:)
Cant disagree with that, had the Rega myself superb dac.
Less mechanical and hifi sounding than the Mdac to me, though if you needed the digital pre etc on teh Mdac then its a better buy.
Strictly as a dac though I preferred the Rega.
Big Dac comparison a few years ago over on Pinkfish, the Rega consistently came out as being well liked.
Ali Tait
02-09-2013, 07:10
C'mon Gaz, everyone knows they all sound the same! :D
brian2957
02-09-2013, 07:15
:lol:
:lol: unless they have valve's in 'em!
Sovereign
02-09-2013, 21:12
Before I settled on the MDAC I had a dacfest to see which I preferred, The Rega was always a top contender, but the MDAC's pre, remote and future upgrades sold it for me.
I have had a Rega Dac on loan for a few days from a very good friend
What a super bit of kit this is
It has made sooooo much difference to my Pioneer DVD/CD transport that I've recently purchased
I have just purchased a good, little used Rega on the Bay.....
I am really impressed with it
Anyone thinking of buying you cannot go wrong
:)
So you prefer it to the Bushmaster? What aspects if so?
Ninanina
08-09-2013, 03:26
Hi Neil
Now I really am useless at describing what I hear but I'll try :doh:
The Rega dac sounds much more analogue to me than the Beresford. It sort of sounds liquid and flowing; I hope that doesn't sound too bad, as its the best way to describe it really, it is smooth without loosing any detail and its an easy listen
Don't get me wrong the Bushmaster is a superb piece of kit, especially with a Linear Power Supply & SBooster',
The only thing I can't work out with the Rega is which of the filters is the best setting; I use Filter 3 at the moment, what does everyone else use?
:D
kenworthy100
08-09-2013, 06:41
I owned the Rega dac for six months, the filters are extremely subtle making minimal changes, on balance filter 4 seemed to sound the best in my system, in all honesty I couldn't hear a great deal between any of them.
I wonder if the Bushmaster 2 will close the gap though? Good DAC's are getting cheaper all the time. £500 for a new one at retail is looking rather high these days methinks, although the cheaper ones are very limited in case quality by and large and should possibly be scrapped if they fail...
StanleyB
08-09-2013, 17:56
I wonder if the Bushmaster 2 will close the gap though? Good DAC's are getting cheaper all the time.
There is no gap to close Dave. I have had customers who sold their BM to buy a Rega, and came back a while later to buy a BM again. Some of them are on AoS.
The Bushmaster and Rega are of different sound signatures. Some people like the smoothed down and liquid sound of the Rega, and are not too bothered about its ultimate ability to reproduce fine detail. Others like the imaging and detailed depth of the BM.
I don't know much about the case quality of other DACs, but I haven't seen any other DAC below £500 that has a better constructed case than mine. I don't use plastic, but solid metal.
Ninanina
08-09-2013, 19:13
I don't know much about the case quality of other DACs, but I haven't seen any other DAC below £500 that has a better constructed case than mine. I don't use plastic, but solid metal.
I think the Rega Dac, at £500 new, is superbly constructed actually, it is VERY solidly built indeed
Ninanina
22-09-2013, 20:54
After having the Rega Dac in the system for a few weeks I am mightily impressed ;)
I would say compared to the BM it is more analogue sounding. I have changed the filter to No. 4 now and I believe it just adds to the listening pleasure. It is just such an easy listen, but don't get me wrong it misses nothing in the resolution department, it is very revealing, but just not clinical sounding in any way
It is just so SUPER smooth and silky sounding, and a long time easy listen ie. nothing clinical and nothing false sounding; you can listen to this for hours and hours with no fatigue... and that's using a very reasonable Pioneer DVD-717/737 player as transport :)
I would say that anyone contemplating spending £300'ish (used or secondhand) you owe it to yourself to take a little listen to the Rega Dac... I am certainly very impressed with it
I have to agree with you regarding the Rega Bev, a superb bit of kit for the money and it is built like a brick poohouse :lol:
I've had a play with the filters and ultimately preferred the first setting in my system, although as Gaz stated, the difference is very subtle between the different filters. Another plus point for me is that the Rega has a proper mains input socket allowing me to utilize a good quality mains cable. In performance there are subtle differences between the BM MK1 and the Rega but ultimately the Rega just edges it for me. It delivers just that little bit more naturalness and delicacy over the BM and the bass performance is absolutely epic, even outdoing the BM in this respect which is pretty stunning in itself. As for imaging, it is absolutely spot on and for the first time ever I have found a DAC which offers similar performance to that of a top flight turntable, arm and cartridge combo. Since buying the Rega I've hardly listened to my TT at all, which says it all really... ;)
wee tee cee
22-09-2013, 21:39
Have had the Rega DAC in my system a couple of times......I didn't get on with its warm colouration regardless of filter used......Horses for courses/room/kit/ ears the BM MK2 if you can, get a listen......I will say no more!
Ninanina
22-09-2013, 21:41
"I have to agree with you regarding the Rega Bev, a superb bit of kit for the money and it is built like a brick poohouse :lol:
In performance there are subtle differences between the BM MK1 and the Rega
I agree it certainly is built like a brick poohouse!!! nicely put Dave, couldn't have said it better myself !!!!
Actually I don't think the difference is subtle at all.... I think that the Rega has a far more 'grown-up' and smoother presentation. And I have found that I prefer it's presentation to the BM... that's just my thoughts
Just like to say it like i find it... :D
Ninanina
22-09-2013, 21:44
Have had the Rega DAC in my system a couple of times......I didn't get on with its warm colouration regardless of filter used......Horses for courses/room/kit/ ears the BM MK2 if you can, get a listen......I will say no more!
Hi Tony
We agree on sooooooo much but I have to say that I would never say the Rega is warm or has colouration in my system, it is just super smooth and VERY listenable... it just sounds like I would guess a good turntable would sound like, and that's NOT warm or coloured, it's just a smoothy and very natural in my system, very analogue sounding. It's probably more a system matching thing than anything else... and in MY system to MY ears it's SUPERB and much more musical than the BM I did own for some time
"I have to agree with you regarding the Rega Bev, a superb bit of kit for the money and it is built like a brick poohouse :lol:
In performance there are subtle differences between the BM MK1 and the Rega
I agree it certainly is built like a brick poohouse!!! nicely put Dave, couldn't have said it better myself !!!!
Actually I don't think the difference is subtle at all.... I think that the Rega has a far more 'grown-up' and smoother presentation. And I have found that I prefer it's presentation to the BM... that's just my thoughts
Just like to say it like i find it... :D
You radical heretic you... :ner: :lol:
Ninanina
22-09-2013, 22:26
You radical heretic you...
He he he ....... it's the Heresy's that made me do it..... he he he :D:D:D
What chipsets do the BM and Rega use? In my experience, the basic tonal characteristics and musical presentation are largely governed by the DAC chip, somewhat like the cartridge on a turntable. It's not the ultimate dictator, sonically, but certainly fundamentally influential.
Ultimately, in that respect, a Wolfson-based DAC is always going to sound different to a Burr-Brown based one.
Marco.
They sport a Wolfson chipset Marco...
Cool... My point stands, then :)
Marco.
What I should have said is that the Rega sports a Wolfson chipset, I haven't a clue which Stan uses in the BM but I'd wager it's probably from Wolfson too, which would explain their sonic similarities... ;)
Not true, dude. The Rega uses a Burr-Brown PCM2707.
See here (4th paragraph): http://www.stereophile.com/content/rega-dac-da-processor-measurements
As Sam wrote, this uses the Burr-Brown PCM2707 USB receiver chip, which is limited to data rates of 48kHz and below and word lengths of 16 bits.
*That* will go some way (although other factors are also relevant) to explaining the rather different sonic presentation between the BM and the Rega :)
Marco.
Ah, my error - it appears that it only uses the Burr-Brown on its USB input, otherwise, the signal goes through Wolfson chips, as detailed below:
I took a look under the hood to confirm that the Rega DAC does use the Burr-Brown PCM2707; it does. For its S/PDIF inputs it uses a Wolfson WM8805 transceiver chip, which will handle data with sample rates of up to 192kHz. This feeds two Wolfson WM8742 D/A chips, a 24-bit/192kHz part; the pair of chips can be seen in the photo of the Rega's innards, just above the legend "Best Used With EL84 Valves" on the printed circuit board.
However, after reading that, I'm slightly confused as to the likely sonic influence of the Burr-Brown PCM2707, and exactly what it's there for.... :scratch:
Marco.
What chipsets do the BM and Rega use? In my experience, the basic tonal characteristics and musical presentation are largely governed by the DAC chip, somewhat like the cartridge on a turntable. It's not the ultimate dictator, sonically, but certainly fundamentally influential.
Ultimately, in that respect, a Wolfson-based DAC is always going to sound different to a Burr-Brown based one.
Marco.
Yes agree with this analogy of a DAC being like a cartridge or stylus.
As for the Bushmaster it uses a Wolfson WM8524 DAC, which is a different beast than the one used in the Rega.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/rega-dac-da-processor-page-2
In the case of direct USB connection, the data go to that Burr-Brown PCM2707 receiver mentioned above. With S/PDIF inputs, the data go to a Wolfson Microelectronics WM8805 receiver chip. "There are no sample-rate converters driving the Wolfson DACs, so the sample rate that goes in gets sent to the DACs." Bateman refers to the parallel-connected Wolfson WM8742 DAC chips, not the Rega DAC as the entity itself. In other words, when I connect my Sony player to the Rega DAC, the receiver chip sends the 16/44.1 data to the Wolfson DAC chipsets unchanged. However, the Wolfson WM8742 DACs oversamples the "native" datastream to 192kHz. ;)
It would seem they utilize both. I input via s/pdif therefore the Wolfson receiver deals with the signal, I much prefer the sound of this input which is similar to that of the BM but with more bass heft and mid/high range delicacy and openness :)
wee tee cee
23-09-2013, 07:40
I moved from a mini TDA 1543 non oversampling Battery Dac, Built by a Parisian gentleman who can do it with or without a case. It was the most natural DAC I have heard and very enjoyable to listen to with a variety of different Hi fi amps/speakers/wires......but It is £130 in its case, not particularly asthetically pleasing but just a sonic pleasure to use.
Recently had a couple of the Scottish forum members across and they both enjoyed what it did it various set ups, I recently purchased the BM MK2 probably less than a hundred hours on it so probably not completely settled down........It is the best digital source I have experienced.
The best DAC i have ever heard is Ali Tate's, valve hybrid machine that he built with Nick Goram (lurcher) I really look forward to getting the troops together again and having a DAC bake off, I think my BM is in with a fighting chance this time.
It depends on your priorities regards sonics and aesthetics/set/room/ears. But centric to this forum is enjoyment of your music and for me something that keeps you up to the small hours and gets you up early for a listen, is a bit special.
Trust your ears and enjoy your music!
I trust my ears and believe me I am really enjoying the music ;)
Indeed, Dave, although as Neil says:
As for the Bushmaster it uses a Wolfson WM8524 DAC, which is a different beast than the one used in the Rega.
Therefore, my original point still stands. Don't get me wrong, though, there's A LOT more to 'voicing' the sound of a DAC than the chipsets used, but like a cartridge on a turntable, the music signal is ultimately being processed through them, and therefore they have a fundamental influence on how we perceive the sonic and musical attributes of any DAC (or turntable, for that matter) :)
Marco.
Personally I couldn't give a fig about the technicalities, it's what comes out of it that matters to me and it is pure gold... ;)
On a finer point, this thread is entitled Rega Dac so the BM has no place here...
Yup, although I believe that the BM was cited for comparison purposes, and thus is relevant because the OP (Bev) used to have one before obtaining her Rega.
I've not heard a BM, so can't comment there, but I've listened to the Rega extensively in a familiar system, and it is unquestionably a very good DAC, capable of outperforming some rather more expensive units, so you guys have defo made an excellent choice! :)
Marco.
And as I have already stated there are distinct similarities in the sound of the two DAC's when one employs the s/pdif input on the Rega, it's just that the Rega goes that extra mile, in my system and to my ears, compared with the BM. In many ways I am grateful that the BM I had for such a short while was a faulty unit otherwise I might never have discovered nirvana. Just as well really as I am banned from buying another Beresford product :D
wee tee cee
23-09-2013, 08:58
I trust my ears and believe me I am really enjoying the music ;)Dave,
Sincere apologies if you felt that was a thread crap, Im glad your Dac is letting you enjoy your music........really that's what its all about.
According to the TI page the PCM2707 has a USB receiver built in, which maybe why it is in there. It also has SPDIF out, so whether it passes this on to the Wolfson afterwards is anyone's guess.
Here's Rega's own take on this:
Technology
The input stage comprises a Wolfson digital receiver with a high stability low jitter clock. The receiver and PLL have their own dedicated power supplies. The DAC stage comprises of a pair of parallel-connected Wolfson WM8742 DAC's, which are driven via a buffer stage, which ensures the integrity of the data being fed to the DAC IC's similar to the arrangement used in the Isis (Rega's refrerence CD player). Great care has been taken to remove noise generated by the PC and other input sources. During development this was identified as a major drawback with many DAC's on the market today.
The output amplifier employs a discrete differential multiple feedback filter and output amplifier, with a high cut-off frequency for use with higher sample rates. We decided not to use a sample rate converter and process the data at the incoming sample rate which keeps the signal processing to a minimum. Jitter was minimised by synchronously clocking the digital data with our receiver PLL (removing any jitter from the input signal).
All the capacitors associated with the analogue signal path are Nichicon FG bypassed with MMK polyester capacitors, and low impedance conductive polymer capacitors are used for DAC decoupling. The power supply utilizes a toroidal transformer, fast rectifier diodes and again Nichicon FG capacitors. There is a power supply for the control microcontroller, separate from the digital & analogue audio stages. Special attention being paid to the inter IC control signals ensuring the control data noise is kept to a minimum.
Ninanina
27-09-2013, 19:08
In many ways I am grateful that the BM...........was a faulty unit otherwise I might never have discovered nirvana
I think exactly the same Dave, I am somehow glad that my BM developed a fault otherwise I would never had tried a Rega Dac in my system and been totally blown away with it's easy going and analogue sound, it really is superb.........
Not heard the BM2 personally.
A while ago, I had the original BM in my system with a few other Dacs (including my Rega) and a bunch of us Scots AOS'ers did a comparison.
The thread is here, but the short version is we all preferred the Rega.
By a large margin.
Stan's got the Bushmaster 2 out now and from comments here its better than the original one.
No massive increase in price either, so good on Stan for keeping to the affordable quality idea.
I had an interesting experience earlier. I bought a Pioneer PD-S 801 CDP on behalf of a friend this week and I've had it in my system for a few days hooked up to my Rega and I was impressed, although it didn't quite live up to my Arcam CD72 as a transport. However today, before he took it home, we hooked it up via it's analogue outputs and we were staggered at what we heard, there's a damn good DAC circuit inside that unit. It's given me something to think about :stalks:
The Pioneer DACs / filters have a very smooth sound.
Ninanina
01-10-2013, 19:29
Certainly using either my Pioneer DV 717 or 737 as transport through the Rega Dac it does sound very good indeed. Considering how inexpensive these Pioneer players are as transports I'm quite amazed, and pleased of course :)
twickers
01-10-2013, 19:51
Is the same dac used in the Apollo cd player?
Ninanina
01-10-2013, 20:03
Is the same dac used in the Apollo cd player?
SORT of Paul
The Apollo, I believe, uses a single Wolfson WM8742 chip rather than the Rega Dac using a pair of parallel-connected Wolfson WM8742's
I've listened to a few Rega CD players but I cannot say that they sound the same as their really superb Rega Dac
The price of a second hand Rega Dac from the Bay equates to about the same as a Bushmaster with a decent linear PSU and I would say, having owned both, that the Rega is head and shoulders above the BM. It is VERY analogue sounding which I never found the BM to be
I can highly recommend the Rega Dac
twickers
01-10-2013, 20:24
SORT of Paul
The Apollo, I believe, uses a single Wolfson WM8742 chip rather than the Rega Dac using a pair of parallel-connected Wolfson WM8742's
I've listened to a few Rega CD players but I cannot say that they sound the same as their really superb Rega Dac
The price of a second hand Rega Dac from the Bay equates to about the same as a Bushmaster with a decent linear PSU and I would say, having owned both, that the Rega is head and shoulders above the BM. It is VERY analogue sounding which I never found the BM to be
I can highly recommend the Rega Dac
Thanks Bev. Decisions, decisions :eyebrows:
The Rega dac improves upon the Apollo when used as a transport.
Gets close (or surpasses depends on who you ask) the Saturn CD player.
Dac's a good 'un, loved mine when I had it.
Only sold it for something appreciably better and more expensive!
The Rega bettered the Mdac easily imo, less mechanical more organic and musical.
Of course if you need a digital preamp and the other gubbins the mdac can provide its better value.
Purely as a dac, the Rega is a better buy imo.
A while back we had a Dac bake off at my gaff, the Rega was liked by all.
kenworthy100
01-10-2013, 20:46
Apollo R is good as a standalone, adding the DAC as I found gives the player a significant lift and makes a superb combination, my only bugbear with the Rega DAC is that the USB input is not asynchronous, as I was using Spotify more and more I initially added a V-link, then moved to a fully async dac. It remains a product I very much enjoyed owning and would definitely recommend.
Ninanina
01-10-2013, 20:55
Gets close (or surpasses depends on who you ask) the Saturn CD player.
Hi Gary
I had a Saturn on loan in my system for a while and as far as I can remember the Rega Dac with even a cheapo Pioneer DV-717/737 as transport I prefer it to the Saturn
SORT of Paul
The Apollo, I believe, uses a single Wolfson WM8742 chip rather than the Rega Dac using a pair of parallel-connected Wolfson WM8742's
I've listened to a few Rega CD players but I cannot say that they sound the same as their really superb Rega Dac
The price of a second hand Rega Dac from the Bay equates to about the same as a Bushmaster with a decent linear PSU and I would say, having owned both, that the Rega is head and shoulders above the BM. It is VERY analogue sounding which I never found the BM to be
I can highly recommend the Rega Dac
I think the choice of transport has a lot to do with it. Performance via my Arcam CD72 and a BM was very close to that provided by the CD72 and Rega combo I now use, although the latter produces a weightier and more believable bottom end in this system. Both combos impress on dynamics and both provide beautifully fluid mids and highs without any 'digital' glare, something which was often apparent on complex productions when using the Caiman I owned previously. Ultimately, in my system the Rega, driven by the CD72, is the better sounding package though.
To turn this completely on its head, last week I had a Pioneer PD-S801 Stable Platter CDP in my system which I acquired on behalf of a friend. He will be using it without a DAC but of course I just had to hook it up to my system via the Rega to test that it was working properly. Although it did sound pretty good driving the Rega the resulting sound lacked body compared to the CD72/Rega pairing in my opinion. However, when I plumbed the Pioneer directly into my DR5 pre via its analogue outputs I was absolutely blown away. Neither the Rega nor the BM come close to what I heard from this standalone machine. I don't know what DAC circuitry Pioneer utilise in the PD-S801 but I can tell you this, it is bloody good. When my friend came to collect the Pioneer from me last Friday I was very sorry to see it go and I am now on the hunt for one myself... ;)
Floyddroid
11-10-2013, 07:53
:hmm:
I have a Pioneer PD-S505, I bought it for £25 to use as a transport with the Bushmaster. One day I tried it directly without the DAC and never unplugged it ever after... It sounded at least as good as the Bushmaster, so no need to occupy one coax input with it. Those Pioneers were very good, the stable platter was a very good idea. And for £25, what's not to like?
I'm looking for a Rega DAC now, though.
This could be all a limitation from the transport and the coaxial output on the cd player, of course, as well as the cheap coax cable I was using. Though it doesn't sound far off from the Airport Express fed with ALAC.
Good Morning!
I am new at this so forgive my ignorance of your previous conversations as I begin .
I have just purchased the Bushmaster MK II and am "burning" the unit for stability. I purchased this unit due to my previous experiences with Beresford products. I teach basic recording at a college here in the USA and require as clean reproduction as possible during mix-down and editing so a dac that offers this characteristic is very important to me.
What I like about the Beresford, as oppose to the Rega, is the non-coloring of the sound reproduction that the Rega and the DacMagic gives during playback--both of whom I had either owned or auditioned. The latter two dac's are terrific performers and offer a quality of sound that is definitely better than whatever original digital sources that one uses before connection to a dac. However, the cost of the 'brand named' units is not worth the money spent when one can purchase a Beresford.
In my brief conversations on email with Mr. Beresford, it is apparent that using good, yet non-boutique, components is important to him. The sound then is very 'open' and transparent. At this moment I am listening to Cara Dillon in a sound file from B&W. Remembering the same file listening through both the Rega and the DacMagic, the Beresford has more presence and more detail. The Rega and the DacMagic is 'warmer' but sacrificing the attacks and openness of the file. The strumming of the guitar is cleaner and one can hear Cara's voice clearly without any edge.
I can continue to ramble but I hope I haven't 'muddied' the waters.
An opinion from a Chinese Immigrant, USA Citizen, whose passion is music and great quality of sound.
Thank you.
Ian
It all comes down to personal preference in the end Ian which is what makes this game so interesting. What I particularly like about the Rega is it's smooth yet detailed delivery. It's output is absolutely devoid of any digital glare. The BM is a smooth operator in itself but in my experience the Rega pips it to the post. Incidentally, I run my CD player into the Rega via an optical input and my music server via an excellent quality RCA digital lead. I'm not a fan of the USB input on the Rega though as I find the presentation via this input to be somewhat cold and uninvolving. Another useful facility that the Rega has is a digital out jack. My previous DAC was a BM incidentally and one feature I do miss is the BM's headphone stage, which is excellent ;)
Very much in agreement. I do wish the BM has digital out, but that is minor to the larger scheme of things. I have run my Apollo through the BM and liked the smoothness and the detail. You are right, personal preference.
Talk with you again.
Ian
So my Rega DAC continues defy logic, for the last 12 months or so I've fed my Rega DAC from a vlink II and USB from my PC using mostly the optical connection.
A few months ago I bought a Supra USB.2.0 cable and used this from the PC to the vlink. Didn't make too much difference as far as I could tell, still it seemed better engineered and built than a cheapie and as it didn't cost the earth I thought fair enough.
Out of daftness last night I used the cable straight to the USB input on the Rega. The results were not insignificant. The Rega on its own just sounds a bit more natural and analog than with the vlink. Maybe this is down to the lower resolution but right now the vlink remains unplugged and I'm enjoying listening to what the DAC is doing on its own.
Without the vlink there are definitely fewer of the sparkly details there and the soundstage isn't quite a wide but somehow it just seems easier on the ears and dare I say it 'musical', bass isn't quite as deep but the laptop seems to be much smoother sounding all round. Possibly fewer drop outs in the sound, none in fact, whereas I always had the odd one before, more so when streaming internet radio.
This DAC is a great bit of kit and it does seem to respond well to the supra USB cable which for around 25quid is worth a punt I reckon. I think I'd struggle to justify spending more.
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